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TUESDAY, JULY 12, 2011

 Proceedings had and Testimony taken in the matters of the ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS, at City of Novi, 45175 West Ten Mile Road, Novi, Michigan, on Tuesday, July 12, 2011

David Ghannam, Chairman
Mav Sanghvi
Rickie Ibe
Linda Krieger
Donna Skelcy
Jeffrey Gedeon

Beth Kudla, City Attorney
Andy Gerecke, Building Official
Coordinator: Angela Pawlowski, Recording Secretary

REPORTED BY: Jennifer L. Wall, Certified Shorthand Reporter

1 Novi, Michigan.

2 Tuesday, July 12, 2011

3 7:00 p.m.

4 ** ** **

5 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Good evening. Welcome to

6 the Tuesday, July 12th, 2011 Zoning Board of Appeals.

7 Please let's start with the Pledge of Allegiance. I

8 will have Member Krieger start us off, please.

9 (Whereupon the Pledge of Allegiance was

10 recited.)

11 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Thank you. Ms. Pawlowski,

12 can you please call the roll.

13 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Gedeon?


15 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Chairman Ghannam?


17 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Ibe?

18 MEMBER IBE: Present.

19 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Krieger?


21 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Sanghvi?


23 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Skelcy?

24 (At 7:02 p.m. Member Skelcy was not present.)

25 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Thank you. I'll go over a



1 few of the rules for our public hearing format. The

2 rules should be towards the back the room, you can take

3 a look at them at your leisure. Please turn off all

4 pagers and cellphones during the meeting.

5 The applicant or their representative will be

6 called upon to come forth and state their name and

7 address and be sworn by our secretary and present their

8 case.

9 Anybody who wishes to address the Board,

10 regarding the current case, will be asked by the

11 Chairperson to raise their hand to be recognized.

12 Next on our agenda is our approval of the

13 agenda. Are there any additions or modifications to

14 the agenda?


16 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Seeing none, I'll

17 entertain a motion to approve the agenda.

18 MEMBER SANGHVI: So moved.

19 MEMBER IBE: Second.

20 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Any further discussion?

21 Seeing none, all in favor say aye.

22 THE BOARD: Aye.

23 CHAIMAN GHANNAM: Any opposed? Seeing none,

24 the agenda is approved.

25 We will move to the approval of the minutes



1 for our June 14th, 2011 meeting. Any additions or

2 modifications to that?


4 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Anything from the City?

5 MS. KUDLA: No.

6 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: I'll entertain a motion to

7 approve that then.

8 MEMBER SANGHVI: May I make a motion to

9 approve the minutes as presented.



12 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Being moved and seconded,

13 all in favor say aye.

14 THE BOARD: Aye.

15 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Any opposed? Seeing none,

16 our minutes of June 14th, 2011 are approved.

17 And I will ask anybody in the public who

18 would like to make a remark on a case -- or let me

19 restate that.

20 Anybody in the public who would like to make

21 a comment not on a case that's pending before the

22 Board, please raise your hand to be recognized.

23 Seeing none, I will move past the public

24 remarks, and move onto our first case.

25 Case No. 11-017, for 41100 Thirteen Mile



1 Road, Fox Run Village.

2 The applicant is requesting a variance to

3 allow the existing oversized project construction sign

4 to remain in the current location within the front yard

5 setback beyond the extended time period designated in

6 previous variances.

7 Will the applicant step forward.

8 Can you please state your name and address,

9 sir.

10 MR. GALVIN: Yes. My name, Mr. Chairman, is

11 Joseph Galvin. My address is 150 West Jefferson, Suite

12 2500, Detroit, Michigan.

13 I am here --

14 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Are you an attorney, sir?

15 MR. GALVIN: I am, yes.

16 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Please proceed then.

17 MR. GALVIN: I am here tonight on behalf of

18 Fox Run. I am also here tonight with Fred Moschetta,

19 who is 10 years at the site, at the project, and Steve

20 Montgomery, who is 15 years with the parent company and

21 with Ken Weikel, who is behind me.

22 We're here tonight asking the Board to extend

23 a temporary variance for our existing temporary sign.

24 This is the sign (indicating). As you can see, it's

25 quite attractive. It stands -- the location of the



1 sign is where I'm indicating now on this drawing, you

2 should have in your packet, an identical drawing, so

3 you can look at that, or at this one (indicating).

4 While the notice for tonight said that this

5 was for an oversized sign, in fact, the existing

6 temporary sign is 10 feet, 10 square feet under that,

7 which is permitted for this type of setting.

8 But its continuation was subject to a series

9 of extensions, which have been granted by this Board

10 over a period of 10 years.

11 The city staff report indicates that in the

12 staff's judgment, 10 years is a long time to be

13 temporary. And that's why we are here tonight, to

14 explain to you why, at least, from our perspective, Fox

15 Run's, it is still a temporary sign, and in truth, why

16 we need it.

17 We're here tonight asking for your help. And

18 the basic reason that we are asking for your help is

19 that this temporary sign is the only sign that we have,

20 which is visible to a driver proceeding either from the

21 east, or the west by our property.

22 It's the only thing you can see, and you

23 don't see it too quickly. We have for you tonight, a

24 video, which we are going to run for you. If we could

25 have the lights brought down perhaps, which I'd do



1 myself, but I don't know how.

2 I really would like you to look at the

3 driver's perspective in the daylight, trying to pick up

4 where we are. You don't see it until you're 693 feet

5 from the entrance, don't see it at all. And all that

6 you see is this, the temporary sign.

7 Now you're within 252 feet, and I believe you

8 can barely see, although not read, both signs.

9 Now, going westbound, from M5, which is where

10 the bulk of our traffic comes from, you can barely see

11 the sign.

12 Now, remember the openness, you see off to

13 the right, that's the church and its properties. The

14 church has a frontage, which is somewhat like ours.

15 The first visibility, 1,362 feet, but you can't read

16 it.

17 Notice when you pass the church sign, how

18 visible it is, and this is an obvious reason. It is

19 the openness of the church's site. Our site is heavily

20 vegetated naturally. It is a physical issue caused by

21 the way our property has been maintained, both in its

22 nature state, and with respect to the City's sign --

23 excuse me, the City's landscaping requirements.

24 Now you can see the two of them and while --

25 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: If you can speak into the



1 microphone, we would appreciate it.

2 MR. GALVIN: In any event, while you're

3 considering the visibility problem that we have, a

4 problem that, as I said, is caused by the shape of our

5 parcel, caused by its size. There are 110 acres there.

6 You have got the extensive frontage over 14, 1,500

7 square feet -- excuse me, feet, linear feet. You have

8 one allowable legal sign, that you can't see. You have

9 another sign, for which we have a variance, which we're

10 asking for the extension on, which you can see, but

11 can't read until you're almost on top of it, and ask

12 yourselves for a second, who is it that is looking for

13 our sign. Who are the people that we are trying to

14 attract from Thirteen Mile Road.

15 These people tend to be older persons. Their

16 vision is not terrific. And when you put this into the

17 context of night driving, it gets to be, frankly, very

18 frightening.

19 (Whereupon Ms. Skelcy was present at

20 approximately 7:05 p.m.)

21 MR. GALVIN: Now, from the perspective of

22 your ordinance, and we know we must come under it, we

23 believe that there are circumstances and features of

24 our property, specifically the vegetation on it, the

25 size of it, the frontage of it, that are unique to us.



1 We are not like anybody. We are not even like the

2 folks next-door, who have the same frontage, but they

3 have a completely open parcel.

4 Now, that was developed at a different time,

5 we all know that, when the requirements were different.

6 But our circumstances are unique.

7 Compare us to the church. Respectfully

8 submit, you will find that we meet the first criterion

9 under your ordinance.

10 The second criterion, it unreasonably limits

11 our use. We believe we are a part, an integral part of

12 the Novi community.

13 We believe that the services that will be

14 described to you in a minute, are unique. Other people

15 don't do what we do, for the persons who live at Fox

16 Run Village. This limitation is causing us more than

17 just an inconvenience or economic loss. Although, Lord

18 knows it has hurt us economically. We are still in a

19 process of building out the project, as you may or may

20 not know. We hope that we will be able to come in for

21 plans for a new building on the site, we hope, within

22 the next two years.

23 We believe that there is no question. Look

24 at the sign. There is no question that what's there is

25 physically compatible with everything that is around



1 it. It will do substantial justice to grant us the

2 variance. And we're certainly not inconsistent with

3 the sign ordinance, which is set up for parcels of all

4 sizes. On a parcel of our frontage, in a different

5 configuration of ownership, you could have 10 or more

6 signs in the same distance. It is an attractive sign,

7 it is proportionate.

8 So we ask that you allow us to continue our

9 variance. We ask that you do this for a period of time

10 sufficient for us to bring to you a plan for signage to

11 serve the property, to make it more visible under its

12 physical constraints.

13 Assuming this sign went away today, you

14 literally could not see that property soon enough to

15 stop, especially if you were an older person, looking

16 for it. Someone who didn't know it was there, would

17 have a very, very difficult time seeing you at all.

18 I know that all of you have driven on

19 Thirteen Mile Road. Think that.

20 In addition, as I said, the purpose of this

21 thing initially is for the construction and buildup of

22 Fox Run. It's not done.

23 So on those bases, we would ask that you

24 extend the variance.

25 Fred, would you explain to them what we do at



1 Fox Run, and why that in and of itself is unique.

2 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: I appreciate that, but,

3 before you get to it --

4 MR. GALVIN: Yes, sir.

5 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: I don't have any

6 questions. All I'm going to say is ordinarily you're

7 allowed -- the applicant is allowed five minutes to

8 present their case, with extensions at the discretion

9 of the Chair. I have no problem with that. So even

10 though you're going to speak, you have been going about

11 10, 12 minutes.

12 MR. GALVIN: I'm sorry.

13 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: That's okay. Just be

14 brief is, all I'm saying --

15 MR. GALVIN: We respectfully request an

16 extension.

17 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: That's not a problem, but

18 just keep that in mind when you're going. State your

19 name and address, please.

20 MR. MOSCHETTA: Fred Moschetta, 42696

21 Faulkner Drive, Novi.

22 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Are you an attorney, sir?

23 MR. MOSCHETTA: I am not.

24 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Please raise your right

25 hand, be sworn by our secretary.



1 MEMBER SKELCY: Do you swear or affirm to

2 tell the truth?


4 MEMBER SKELCY: Thank you.

5 MR. MOSCHETTA: I have been working at Fox

6 Run for 10 years now. And the average person who lives

7 at Fox Run is 82 years old. 95 percent of the people

8 who come to our campus, are coming east of our

9 property. And various activities that they're coming

10 for throughout the day are lectures, concerts, shows,

11 various events, parties.

12 We have families coming around the clock

13 visiting our people that live on our campus. And when

14 we have given directions out to people, the first thing

15 they ask for is, I don't know the area, what is a

16 landmark around you.

17 There are no landmarks for us to give. There

18 is just a lot of trees along Thirteen Mile. And in

19 many ways that's an appeal for people, but for our

20 customers coming on property, they're looking for

21 landmarks to find our entrance.

22 Many of them go past it. They have to pull

23 over, turn around. That's unfortunate for them as

24 well.

25 All of you have this chart in front of you as



1 well, that shows our growth, or unfortunate lack of

2 growth over the years, in lieu of the local economy and

3 housing market.

4 Without that sign, I would hate to think what

5 else could happen. Driving by Thirteen Mile, without

6 that sign defining who Fox Run is, people aren't going

7 to know what we are as well. There needs to be some

8 type of signage there, describing what the Fox Run

9 community is, being a very unique property as well.

10 We have close to 1,000 people living on our

11 campus, again, 95 percent of those people move from

12 east of the City of Novi, coming into our neighborhoods

13 here.

14 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Anything else?

15 MR. MOSCHETTA: That would be all.

16 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Thank you. At this point,

17 I will ask for anybody in the public who wants to make

18 comment on this particular case, please raise your hand

19 and be recognized.

20 Seeing none, I will close the public remarks

21 section and call on our secretary to read any

22 correspondence.

23 MEMBER SKELCY: 168 notices were mailed out,

24 66 were returned mail, one objection, no approvals.

25 The objection comes from Jan Martin, located



1 at 29769 Roussian in Novi. She states, they have

2 already had an extension. They now should construct

3 the permanent signage, with no variance of sign

4 ordinance. This is a private facility.

5 As a private facility, the current ordinance

6 as set by the City of Novi is sufficient. The facility

7 is not difficult to find, and they are not inviting

8 public to the facility.

9 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Thank you. Anybody from

10 the City have a comment on this particular case?

11 Seeing none, I will open it up to the Board

12 for questions. Member Sanghvi?

13 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I

14 have got a question for the City Attorney. Is there

15 any stipulation in any ordinances (inaudible) for

16 giving extensions, just one year, two years, five

17 years?

18 MS. KUDLA: No, there is no specific time

19 frame.

20 MEMBER SANGHVI: No specific limits on it?

21 MS. KUDLA: No.

22 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. Now, about this.

23 I have known of this facility every since it opened.

24 And I have been inside. It's an excellent facility. I

25 just want to make one comment.



1 I take exception to counsel's comment that

2 the older people can't see well. That's nonsense. We

3 all pass a driving test before we can drive. To tell

4 us that seniors can't see well, that's sort of an

5 unfair comment.

6 Anyway, as far as I am concerned, I don't

7 know why -- I don't see anywhere on that sign where

8 there is any construction going on or anything to that

9 effect.

10 And why can't this sign be kind of a facility

11 identification sign, rather than a construction sign.

12 Then we can bypass all of this temporary business and

13 get on with it.

14 So, the question is, can we consider this is

15 the business identification sign rather than a

16 construction sign without readvertising?

17 MS. KUDLA: I will have to look -- do you

18 mean just consider it as a submittal, as a business

19 construction sign rather than as a variance or just

20 consider this as a permanent sign?

21 MEMBER SANGHVI: That's what I'm coming at,

22 because this sign is going to be -- is going to be

23 needed for a long time to come. The economy is not

24 going to change until 2014.

25 Instead of giving them an extension year



1 after year, or every two years, maybe we should find

2 some kind of a solution to the problem, especially, in

3 this particular case, where they don't have a real

4 business identification sign to start with.

5 Just a question, whether we can make this

6 into one of those.

7 MS. KUDLA: If we are going to make this a

8 permanent sign, I think the reason that we need the

9 variance is because it's in the setback, is that

10 correct? We'd have to -- is there another sign on the

11 site?

12 MR. GERECKE: Yes, there is. There is a sign

13 in the middle, correct?

14 MR. GALVIN: There is. That is not visible.

15 This one is visible, as was shown in the video.

16 MS. KUDLA: So you would be asking whether

17 there would be a permanent sign in the setback, that's

18 the question? That would be -- I guess that would

19 be -- what the request would be. I think right now,

20 the request in front of us is a temporary extension.

21 There was no specific time period -- let's see, 12

22 months.

23 There is no specific time requested, so I

24 guess, I mean, it would be up to you what time you

25 wanted to grant for it, but we would basically -- that



1 would be -- you know, depending on, you know, what time

2 frame you're thinking, basically the variance is to put

3 it in the setback, and I guess I'm not sure whether

4 that was the submittal, at this point, was for a

5 permanent sign in the setback or just a temporary.

6 So, we would have to look at how it was

7 noticed, whether it was noticed for a temporary or

8 permanent sign in the setback.

9 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. Well, I have no

10 problem with continuing this sign. And I would suggest

11 to my fellow Board Members that maybe we should

12 consider giving them a variance, for maybe not just two

13 years, maybe five years.

14 And then in the meantime, they can find out

15 what kind of permanent sign they want to have, so they

16 don't have to keep coming back.

17 This is a great facility. It is quite an

18 asset to the City of Novi having a place like this.

19 And I don't know how many of you have visited

20 this place from inside, it's a great facility. And I

21 have no problem supporting that application. Thank

22 you.

23 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Member Skelcy?

24 MEMBER SKELCY: I have some questions for the

25 attorney.



1 This sign, I believe, is lighted? It has

2 electrical attached to it, is that correct?

3 MR. GALVIN: Yes.

4 MEMBER SKELCY: And this is a gated

5 community, I believe, is that correct?

6 MR. GALVIN: Yes, it is.

7 MEMBER SKELCY: So people need an appointment

8 to get in, is that correct?

9 MR. GALVIN: No. They need to identify

10 themselves, and they need to have a specific place to

11 be going, and people who come to live there, especially

12 during the daylight hours, drive, and as you heard

13 earlier, sometimes call to us, and ask for directions,

14 don't know where they're going, they don't have a

15 specific appointment. It is not as controlled a

16 situation as you're suggesting.

17 MEMBER SKELCY: But they have to have

18 someplace to go when they're at the gate, indicating, I

19 am meeting someone at a particular apartment, or I'm

20 meeting the sales representative to check out one of

21 the --

22 MR. MOSCHETTA: If I can add to that. Or if

23 they're coming to a public event for a lecture, or a

24 concert, or some event like that, they just tell the

25 gatehouse that's where they are going to, and they're



1 directed to where that public event is.

2 MEMBER SKELCY: Those are all my questions.

3 I am not in favor of extending the variance, primarily

4 because this is, I think, an advertising sign to sell

5 the apartments, rather than a sign indicating the

6 location of the facility.

7 And I think that if you have some problems

8 with your sign for your facility, which does say, Fox

9 Run, it is right on the entryway, that maybe you need

10 to revamp that sign.

11 But I think after 10 years, the sign is no

12 longer temporary, that it's nearly permanent, and we do

13 not have a request for a permanent sign in front of us.

14 I don't think that you are unreasonably

15 prevented from the use of the property, without the

16 sign. And I think that there are no unique or

17 exceptional circumstances to the property that would

18 require the sign, so I would encourage the Board

19 Members to vote against this particular request, based

20 on the fact that it really is no longer a temporary

21 sign. Thank you.

22 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Member Gedeon?

23 MEMBER GEDEON: I couldn't agree more with

24 Member Skelcy. You have an existing Fox Run sign there

25 on both sides of the driveway. If that's not



1 sufficient, I think you need to work on changing that

2 sign.

3 And you have presented a very compelling case

4 for a larger sign. So I would not be opposed to, if

5 you come back next month, or a few months from now and

6 ask for a larger, permanent sign.

7 That would be perfectly reasonable, based on

8 the facts you presented today.

9 But I don't quite understand continuing the

10 temporary sign here.

11 And one follow-up question to the City. Is

12 there any issue with the fact that the temporary sign

13 is lit? Is there any restrictions like that?

14 MS. KUDLA: Is it -- I don't understand what

15 type of sign is up there. We would have to check the

16 original permit.

17 MEMBER GEDEON: In general, there is no

18 restrictions on lighting a temporary sign?

19 MS. KUDLA: On lighting, I mean, it's in

20 different zoning districts, how it can be lit. I think

21 if it's a light shining on it, I don't think that's a

22 problem that. I'm not sure how it's lit it. I mean,

23 it can't be like a, you know, flashing sign or anything

24 like that. But just a sign lighting isn't prohibited,

25 no.



1 MEMBER GEDEON: Thank you.


3 MEMBER IBE: Thank you, Mr. Chair. To the

4 applicant, now, I heard you say, I think I was starting

5 to make note, that 10 years is not enough time. I know

6 you're not trying to tell me, and pretend I'm a two

7 year-old. How much time do you really need in order to

8 understand what is temporary?

9 MR. GALVIN: The point I was trying to make

10 is that the purpose of the sign, which at the time it

11 was originally erected, and at the time the initial

12 request for extension were made, was, in fact, a

13 temporary sign for construction and for marketing.

14 There is no question that it's there for marketing.

15 And it was anticipated that in the period, at

16 that time, we're dealing now in 2002, that five to

17 seven years, the project would be completely built out.

18 Now, I have been paying attention to what the

19 Board has said. And I don't think it would be helpful

20 either to the City, in the enforcement of its

21 ordinances, and I'm not avoiding your timing question,

22 how long. If this Board were to allow a tabling of

23 this particular request, to permit us to apply for a

24 permanent sign, because I know you folks are trying to

25 fashion something that makes sense under the City's



1 ordinances to you, and that there is no purpose to

2 injure this particular land use. While I most

3 respectfully disagree, we don't have physical criteria

4 that meet the ordinance, that's neither here nor there.

5 The truth of the matter is, if the Board were

6 to entertain the notion of tabling with a direction

7 that we file for a permanent sign, that would meet our

8 needs, during the time of the tabling, we would not be

9 in the position where nobody could see us. And that I

10 would like the Board to give some thought to that.

11 MEMBER IBE: Well, I think you attempted to

12 answer my question, but I don't believe I got the

13 answer I was looking for.

14 MR. GALVIN: I'm sorry that I didn't give you

15 the answer you were looking for. I rarely do. I never

16 answer questions the way people want them answered.

17 I try to put forth what I believe to be the

18 truth. It is from a perspective. It's from a point of

19 view, there is no question. But 10 years is a long

20 time for a temporary sign, if that's the what issue is.

21 I tried to explain the why.

22 MEMBER IBE: You will agree that 10 years is

23 a long time, right?

24 MR. GALVIN: I certainly do.

25 MEMBER IBE: Now, when you came here today,



1 did you have -- because I know you said -- my note said

2 somewhere, like you need sufficient amount of time to

3 find out what will happen.

4 How many more years you think they're

5 required to figure out what you need to do with this

6 sign?

7 I think it is a difficult question because

8 obviously they have had 10 years, so I think they

9 requiring two or three years to think about the little

10 bit more and figure out if they need a permanent one or

11 a temporary one.

12 MR. MOSCHETTA: We are hoping to have another

13 building under construction within a next couple of

14 years. Another sign like that will be needed to

15 attract people in to be looking for something, to

16 identify them, to take get them to our site.

17 So we are hoping to have another building

18 under construction within the next couple of years.

19 And one thing that I was always try to

20 identify with people, the services that we are offering

21 to the community, and people living there, are unique

22 in itself, that we are not a condo complex, or we are

23 not a subdivision.

24 People who are moving to Fox Run are looking

25 for specific need that only Fox Run can offer to them.



1 So it is a very unique service. And our customer is --

2 their requirements are something different, and again,

3 they're not coming from the local area, they're not

4 familiar with the Thirteen Mile area, they're looking

5 for something specific to identify.

6 MEMBER IBE: Thank you. Well, I must tell

7 you that, sir, in listening to the presentation you

8 have made, which is quite compelling, and listening to

9 my fellow board members here, I'm probably on the fence

10 with the issue. The reason -- for the following

11 reasons. One, I believe 10 years is a long time.

12 Now, I'm not perhaps the best English

13 student, but I know what temporary means. It doesn't

14 mean 10 years, that's permanent.

15 Obviously, the facility, we should have

16 talked about other ways to get around this sign. This

17 is a marketing sign seven new units. It's not really

18 something that identifies it is a place where people

19 need to go.

20 And second, just as Member Skelcy stated, as

21 well as our other members, clients who come to this

22 place already know where they're going.

23 I don't believe that in public people just

24 drive around Thirteen Mile and say, geez, today I think

25 I'm going to go to Fox Run. You know, people probably



1 know where they're going, they have to go a gate, and

2 then they have to dictate where they need to be, so

3 they can be directed.

4 It tells me that, for anyone who wants to

5 goes to Fox Run, I bet you they know where to go. So

6 whether you have this sign or another sign, it's may

7 not even make a difference.

8 So, until, maybe, I hear something otherwise

9 from the other members, I will reserve my judgment, as

10 to which way I'm going to go on this. Thank you,

11 Mr. Chair.


13 MR. MOSCHETTA: Can I answer your question

14 about what a temporary sign is?

15 MEMBER IBE: No, I don't believe -- I think I

16 have heard enough. Thank you.

17 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Member Krieger?

18 MEMBER KRIEGER: I agree with the previous

19 members, and from the discussion, it seems more of an

20 advertising sign. And that I don't understand why the

21 request wasn't for a permanent second sign, or if there

22 is a construction sign, that if you're having a first

23 build, you have your temporary construction trucks

24 coming in, and then the sign goes away, people know

25 where they're going. And then if the second facility



1 is going to be built, then you have another

2 construction, temporary construction sign.

3 So this sign to me seems like a permanent

4 sign. I don't understand the purpose of asking for the

5 continuation of a variance for a temporary sign, when

6 it seems more permanent, and that's what the request

7 would have been, and I would be in favor, at the

8 petitioner's request, to tabling it, that does allow

9 them that, otherwise, I would not be able to support

10 this request. Thank you.

11 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: I will weigh in on this,

12 too, a little bit, since everybody has taken their

13 chance.

14 I think this is a clear, this is not a

15 construction sign. I think that's been established.

16 It's a lit sign. I think from your presentation, it's

17 meant to draw people in potentially for sales and so

18 forth, which is, you know, completely different type of

19 signage, so I don't believe you meet the standard, sir.

20 Again, whether someone wants to make a motion

21 to table it, I don't know if that helps you necessarily

22 in the enforcement of the existing ordinance and your

23 right to have that sign there, but I wouldn't

24 necessarily have a problem with that either.

25 I don't know how long it's going to take you



1 to get -- apply and erect a permanent sign, but that's

2 your choice.

3 So based on what I see, I don't see any

4 support in terms of approving this.

5 I do believe, by the way, as Member Sanghvi

6 has said, it's a beautiful facility, certainly it

7 offers a lot. I understand your clientele, but we

8 don't write the ordinances, we simply grant variances,

9 if they're supported by the law and the standards that

10 you're supposed to prove.

11 Anything else? Member Sanghvi?

12 MEMBER SANGHVI: May I make a motion?


14 MEMBER SANGHVI: I would like to make motion

15 that we table this case, and if they come up with a

16 permanent sign for the facility, and in the meantime,

17 until that is -- a permanent sign goes up, they may

18 continue this temporary relief for a maximum of three

19 months.

20 MEMBER KRIEGER: They will come with back to

21 us in October?

22 MEMBER SANGHVI: I don't know whether they

23 would need a variance or not. They might go within the

24 limits of the sign, to put up --

25 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: You would like to move for



1 them to continue this for a maximum of three months?


3 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Not contingent on them

4 getting approved?


6 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Any further discussion?

7 You may have to state the standard upon which you are

8 basing your motion. Why don't you go ahead and do

9 that, then we can get a second.

10 If you want to state the basis upon which you

11 wish to move --

12 MEMBER SANGHVI: Because A, this doesn't look

13 like a construction sign, and B, it's not temporary

14 anymore. And so, we need to find a way out, this is

15 just to help out the applicant.

16 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Any seconds?


18 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Any further discussion?

19 Member Skelcy?

20 MEMBER SKELCY: You know, I want the

21 applicant to know that, if you come back and say, oh,

22 this is our new permanent sign, I'm not going to be in

23 favor of that either.

24 I mean, to me, this is, you know, the sign.

25 And if you come back and say, oh, the Fox Run sign that



1 is at the entrance, we are going to modify it, here's

2 how we plan to modify it, you know, I would definitely

3 look at that.

4 But I don't want the applicant to come back

5 in three months and say, oh, this is our new permanent

6 sign.

7 So I just want to give the applicant fair

8 warning on that.

9 MR. GALVIN: With permission of the Chair,

10 may I speak? I know you've --

11 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: I'll give you a couple

12 more minutes, sir, just speak at the podium, please.

13 MR. GALVIN: Thank you for the courtesy.

14 I was not proposing to bring back this sign.

15 What I was proposing, when I mentioned the tabling is,

16 leave us a sign for visibility during the period that

17 we prepare an application for a permanent sign that

18 would not look like this.

19 It would look like a permanent sign for

20 identification. It would require -- I don't want to go

21 into the details, because I'm not sure, but we would

22 look at size and proximity to the road because of the

23 unique physical circumstances of the parcel.

24 But it is not a proposal to come back and say

25 make this permanent. And I hope that your remarks



1 don't mean that you might -- you did say you would --

2 no. I listened more carefully. The lady said she will

3 listen. That's all I ask.

4 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Ms. Pawlowski, can you

5 please take the roll. We have a motion and a second.

6 MS. KUDLA: I just want to clarify. Is the

7 motion to set it for the October 11th agenda, table it

8 until then, and subject granting an extension for three

9 months, subject to them putting it on the October 11th

10 agenda for a permanent sign?

11 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: I asked if there was any

12 contingencies. He said there was not. So it's a three

13 month extension period. Is that accurate?

14 MEMBER SANGHVI: That's correct. That's what

15 I said.

16 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Gedeon?


18 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Chairman Ghannam?


20 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Ibe?


22 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Krieger?


24 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Sanghvi?




1 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Skelcy?


3 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Motion passes six to zero.

4 MR. GALVIN: Thank you. We have heard you.

5 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Next on the agenda is Item

6 No. 11-014, 39500 MacKenzie Drive, for MacKenzie North

7 Technology Center.

8 The applicant is requesting a variance to

9 allow continued placement of an oversized 32 square

10 foot leasing sign for the MacKenzie North Technology

11 Center. The property is zoned, OST, and located west

12 of Haggerty and north of Thirteen Mile Road.

13 Will the applicant please step forward.

14 Please state your name and address, sir.

15 MR. DROHLSHAGEN: I am Joseph Drohlshagen,

16 39000 Country Club Drive, Farmington Hills.

17 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Can you please raise your

18 right hand and be sworn.

19 MEMBER SKELCY: Do you swear or affirm to

20 tell the truth?

21 MR. DROHLSHAGEN: I do. The sign that's

22 currently on MacKenzie North is 32 square feet, and

23 depicts a building that we have site plan approval on.

24 And that particular location is at the north end of the

25 second phase of Haggerty Corridor Corporate Park. It's



1 on MacKenzie Drive, which is probably not a very

2 well-known drive, but it's a major east-west drive

3 heading off of Haggerty.

4 The marketing sign has been up since we had

5 site plan approval, I believe. We need or are

6 requesting an extension of it for another year.

7 The good news is, that north end is going to

8 have a building on it very soon. We are building a

9 build to suit building. It's going to look a lot like

10 a picture in the temporary sign there.

11 Once the building is up, people will be to

12 kick it, look at it, scratch it and say, this is what

13 this particular part of the Haggerty Corridor Corporate

14 Park is going to look like, and then that temporary

15 sign will be taken down and our standard leasing sign

16 will be put up.

17 So I think the total extension period is

18 approximately a year. But once it logically becomes

19 visible, the other building will probably end up

20 putting up a leasing sign. That's it.

21 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Thank you, sir. Is there

22 anybody from the public who would wish to make a

23 comment on this particular case, please raise your

24 right hand to be recognized.

25 Seeing none, I will close the public remarks



1 section, and ask our secretary to read any

2 correspondence.

3 MEMBER SKELCY: Fourteen notices were mailed,

4 there were no responses and two were returned by the

5 post office.

6 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Thank you. Any comments

7 from the City on this particular case?

8 MS. KUDLA: No.

9 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Seeing none, I will open

10 it up to the Board for comments or questions. Member

11 Skelcy?

12 MEMBER SKELCY: When is that building going

13 to construction?

14 MR. DROHLSHAGEN: Dirt has begun moving

15 already. If you drive by there, we're going to start

16 the foundation shortly.

17 MEMBER SKELCY: And when do you expect the

18 construction to be completed?

19 MR. DROHLSHAGEN: Depending on how the winter

20 goes, somewhere February, March, April, something like

21 that.

22 MEMBER SKELCY: Of 2012?


24 MEMBER SKELCY: 2012, thank you.

25 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Just have a couple of



1 questions. Is that building leased?

2 MR. DROHLSHAGEN: 100 percent leased to

3 Tognam America. They're going to bring about 240 new

4 jobs into Novi.

5 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: So the question becomes if

6 that building is ready to go and to be leased, why do

7 you need this sign? In the size that you're

8 requesting?

9 MR. DROHLSHAGEN: Because you won't be able

10 to see what the building is going to really end up

11 looking like for a while. And I don't know how long a

12 while is. I didn't want to have to come back in six

13 months to ask the same question. But certainly, that's

14 a valid -- it's a very valid question. Once that

15 building is up and leased, we don't need it, and we

16 will take that sign down, and put up our leasing sign.

17 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: If the building is going

18 up and it's fully leased, what do you need the sign

19 for.

20 MR. DROHLSHAGEN: I'm sorry. The company

21 that's moving into MacKenzie South -- is across the

22 street from MacKenzie North. MacKenzie South does not

23 have a sign at all. MacKenzie North is the parcel that

24 received site plan approval a couple years ago. We

25 were only allowed, I guess, I was not involved in this



1 particular, one marketing sign on that corner of

2 MacKenzie. We didn't have a MacKenzie South marketing

3 sign, the MacKenzie North marketing sign, we just had a

4 MacKenzie North marketing sign.

5 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: You're requesting one

6 year?


8 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: I don't have any other

9 questions. Anybody else have any questions?

10 MEMBER SKELCY: I just need clarification.

11 So the new building is going on the south property?

12 MR. DROHLSHAGEN: That is correct.

13 MEMBER SKELCY: You're saying that you will

14 take down this larger sign in a year because people can

15 look at the south building and see that as --

16 MR. DROHLSHAGEN: Right now, it's a big farm

17 field basically, and you can't really tell that there

18 is going to be an extension of the Haggerty corridor

19 there. It's just nothing but land.

20 So this sign is showing the potential

21 building that is going to be going there, on MacKenzie

22 North.

23 And so from a marketing standpoint, that's

24 been helpful. But now that MacKenzie South building is

25 going up, fully occupied, we still have another



1 building that is site plan approved, called MacKenzie

2 North, we'd like to still be able to market that,

3 showing that, yes, it's going to look like that, it's

4 not going to look like a residential subdivision.

5 MEMBER SKELCY: Okay, thank you very much.

6 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Anybody else? Member

7 Gedeon?

8 MEMBER GEDEON: I would just say that this

9 seems reasonable to me, for the reasons that they're

10 entitled to a leasing sign in the first place, and

11 they're merely asking for a larger sign to depict what

12 the building would look like. It seems like a

13 reasonable situation and time limited.

14 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: And I will echo that. I

15 understand that you're entitled to 16 square feet. You

16 want 32. It is double. But you have a massive area

17 back there.

18 But keep in mind, as you have heard, I'm sure

19 from the previous case sometimes, sometimes temporary

20 becomes permanent.

21 MR. DROHLSHAGEN: No doubt.

22 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: That to me does not comply

23 with the intent of our ordinances.

24 But anything else by the Board? If not, I

25 will entertain a motion.



1 Member Gedeon?

2 MEMBER GEDEON: In Case 11-1014, 39500

3 MacKenzie Drive, I move to approve the variance as

4 requested for a one-year extension of a 32 square feet

5 leasing sign. For the reasons that there is nothing

6 currently built on the property, and that the oversized

7 sign will allow potential lessees to view a depiction

8 of the building.

9 And also because the request is based on

10 circumstances and features that are exceptional and

11 unique to the property and does not result from

12 conditions that exist generally in the city.

13 Failure to grant relief will unreasonably

14 prevent or limit the use of the property and will

15 result in substantially more than a mere inconvenience

16 or inability to attain a higher economic financial

17 return.

18 And the grant of relief will not result in

19 the use of structure that is incompatible or

20 unreasonably interferes with adjacent or surrounding

21 properties, and will result in substantial justice

22 being done to both the applicant and the adjacent

23 surrounding properties.


25 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Any further discussion?



1 Seeing none, can you please call the roll,

2 Ms. Pawlowski.

3 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Gedeon?


5 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Chairman Ghannam?


7 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Ibe?


9 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Krieger?


11 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Sanghvi?


13 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Skelcy?


15 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Motion passes, six to zero.

16 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Congratulations.

17 Next item is Item No. 11-010, 25100 Novi

18 Road.

19 The applicant can please come forward.

20 MR. ROLLINGER: Good evening, Members of the

21 Board. My name is Robert Rollinger. I'm an attorney

22 for the Board of County Road Commissioners for Oakland

23 County.

24 We are back this evening to discuss with you

25 the two options or alternatives for a sign, for the



1 property at 25100 Novi Road, owned by Gagliano

2 Enterprises, doing business as Collex Collision.

3 At the last meeting, the Board indicated in a

4 split vote, the two proposal that we had put before

5 you. One being a pole sign.

6 The profile that we provided to the Board,

7 and was attached to the application, I have my copy

8 here. I don't want to get them mixed up.

9 Now that I have done that, I'm not sure how

10 visible has. I hope you folks can see that.

11 The pole sign, based on the profile drawing,

12 that this is showing you, given the slope of the

13 embankment, at that point, on Novi Road, looking east,

14 a height of the pole would be at least 10 feet in

15 height, with a four-foot tall sign on top. The overall

16 height would be approximately 14 feet.

17 This would provide a site line as one is

18 traveling on Novi Road. It's approximately 750 feet

19 from the proposed Collex Collision sign location.

20 Again, because of the slope at the

21 intersection from Novi Road heading east, to where the

22 actual sign location would be placed, it is our

23 recommendation that the Board would allow a 14-foot

24 tall pole.

25 So it would raise the overall height to



1 18 feet, again, based on a four-foot tall sign being

2 placed at the top of the pole. Again, that's based on

3 the slope of the embankment.

4 I would indicate that the applicant, being

5 the Road Commission, is simply offering two different

6 choices. The owner, who is also here this evening, he

7 did indicate at the last meeting, that this is the

8 preference that they had.

9 The other alternative is to have a ground

10 mount sign, which is the sign that the applicant -- I'm

11 sorry, the owner currently has on site. That is about

12 a 32 square foot sign. It's approximately a little

13 over eight feet long, and about four feet tall.

14 The approximate location, based again on the

15 grade running east from Novi Road, due to the

16 embankment, is about one in four grade, and again we

17 would contemplate, if this is the choice, being placed

18 on at least a one-foot tall pedestal, again, which is

19 what the applicant -- the owner had prior to the Novi

20 Road widening project.

21 The height of the sign, based on a

22 measurement at the mid-point, would be approximately

23 seven and a half feet tall. We are, again,

24 recommending some flexibility because the embankment

25 may not be exactly correct until it's actually



1 finished, to allow the overall height of the sign to be

2 eight and a half feet tall, to account for a two foot

3 high pedestal because the owner may well want to go

4 back to what they had.

5 I believe their pedestal, prior to it being

6 taken down for the road widening, I believe was two

7 feet.

8 We also are calling for a secondary sign

9 which would be placed on the north wall of the

10 building, that would be approximately 30 square feet in

11 size.

12 The secondary sign would be placed below the

13 top of the parapet, which would increase the visibilty

14 for southbound travelers coming onto Novi Road to be

15 able to identify the location again for Collex

16 Collision, so this would be helpful to the owner, based

17 again on their location and proximity to the bridge

18 overpass.

19 That's basically all I have.

20 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Thank you, sir. Did

21 anybody want to speak on behalf of the owner?

22 MS. WEEKLEY: Yes. Again, my name is Rebecca

23 Weekley. I'm general counsel for Collex. As you all

24 are aware, we are preferential towards the pole sign.

25 What wasn't mentioned this evening, after



1 last month's meeting, I did visit the site myself.

2 There is a window on the building where they anticipate

3 putting that 30 foot additional sign on the north side

4 of the building, which makes it impossible to put a

5 30 foot sign onto that side of the building, which

6 again is going to hamper visibility because that sign

7 can't be 30 feet, it can't be located where they're

8 anticipating the sign to be located.

9 That was not mentioned this evening, but I

10 did needed to bring that to your attention.

11 Again, as I pointed out last time, pole

12 signs, I know they're not allowed in the City of Novi,

13 but they are and have been granted.

14 Harold's Frame Shop, this is on Grand River,

15 again, you can see here, this is a case very similar to

16 ours, where Harold's is again is down in a hole, like

17 we will be down in a hole due to the bridge

18 construction. They are down in a hole here, you can

19 see the railing here, for the bridge that goes in front

20 of Harold's shop.

21 This is an exact same case, and we are asking

22 that you give us the exact same thing, which is a pole

23 sign.

24 Obviously, our pole sign will be a little bit

25 nicer, and more esthetically pleasing, but this is what



1 we are asking for this evening.

2 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Thank you. Is there

3 anybody in the public who would like to say something

4 else?

5 MR. ROLLINGER: I would like to add one

6 thing. We did go out to look at the north face of the

7 building, for the secondary sign. We measured the size

8 of the brick wall, for the number of bricks. There is

9 sufficient place -- there is sufficient placement for

10 the secondary sign.

11 The only thing the owner would have to do is

12 there is some exterior light to provide lighting on

13 that side of the building, which frankly, would be

14 helpful for the sign, may have to be moved over. We

15 are not trying to dictate though to the owner where

16 they want to place the sign, we're simply recommending

17 it. It's their building, it would be their sign. But

18 we think the only thing they would have to do is to

19 relocate the exterior light.

20 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Thank you. Is anybody

21 from the public who would like to make a comment on

22 this case, please raise your right hand and be

23 recognized.

24 Seeing none, I will close the public remarks

25 section and ask our secretary to read any



1 correspondence.

2 MEMBER SKELCY: Nine notices were mailed. No

3 responses. No returned mailed.

4 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Thank you. Anything

5 further from the City? I know we discussed this in

6 detail last time, but anything further?

7 MS. KUDLA: We haven't received any new

8 information or any materials since last time.

9 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Any further Board

10 discussion? Member Skelcy?

11 MEMBER SKELCY: I just wanted to say that my

12 position, since we last met, has not changed. And in

13 fact, I think that the fact that counsel pointed out

14 that there was one other sign could be used in the

15 future, along with this sign, to justify further pole

16 signs in the city.

17 I think it becomes a slippery slope toward

18 pole signs, when we start granting these, and so as

19 last time I encouraged the Board to consider the ground

20 mounted installation, along with an additional wall

21 sign of up to 30 square feet on the north building

22 elevation. Thank you.

23 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Member Gedeon?

24 MEMBER GEDEON: My position has not changed

25 either. And two points that I want to make. One,



1 which I made last month, regarding the Harold's Frame

2 Shop. We still not do not have any -- you say it's the

3 exact same situation, but we don't know exactly where

4 it's placed in relation to the slope of the bridge. We

5 don't know if they had a pole sign before, maybe it was

6 just removed -- maybe it was just moving their pole

7 sign or making their pole sign higher. You know, those

8 particular facts have not been presented to us.

9 So we are left to guess at whether or not it

10 really is the same situation or not.

11 And to the fellow Board Members here, I see

12 this as -- the Road Commission has come to us with

13 alternative proposals.

14 The fact that they are here, in the first

15 place, means that they're -- neither of the proposals

16 that in compliance with the zoning ordinance. So we

17 have to look to see how far are we willing to extend

18 past the zoning ordinance.

19 And I see the proposal for two signs, the

20 ground mounted sign and the wall mounted sign, as

21 really the middle ground here.

22 I mean, we don't even have to go very far

23 from Novi to see awful pole signs can look. Anyone who

24 has gone to Wixom Road and Grand River area, there is

25 pole signs at many of those businesses location, and it



1 just -- it looks awful.

2 And here, in this situation, this collision

3 shop is only a half mile away from the downtown Novi,

4 which is intended to be the premier development site in

5 the city. And to suggest that we are going to start

6 putting pole signs that close to the core part of the

7 city, I just, I can't agree to that. I really do see

8 that offering the applicant two signs, it really is a

9 compromise position here.

10 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Member Krieger?

11 MEMBER KRIEGER: I disagree. Michigan CAT

12 has a pole sign. They have two poles with their signs

13 that says Michigan CAT.

14 Pine Ridge down the street has -- they also

15 have a pole sign. Big Boys, theirs is not as tall. If

16 you drive in any parking lot that has lights, there is

17 all poles with lights.

18 As long as it doesn't look like Eight Mile

19 with those big freeway signs, I believe this sign, that

20 they're asking for, is consistent, and with the --

21 would fit in with the Novi corridor. I have driven

22 down to where the train tracks are, the bridge is going

23 be to massive. And we granted this person -- the

24 business is a taxpayer of Novi, versus the County,

25 which is a benefit, we are having two groups here that



1 are trying to make Novi a better place to be.

2 If I was a taxpayer paying my property taxes,

3 and then I come, and I'd like to have this request, I

4 don't understand why that, you know, this is my

5 request, this other group is coming in saying, this is

6 this what we want, I would go with what the taxpayer is

7 asking for -- he's asking for a reasonable pole sign.

8 That is not going to be in a visible disturbance, there

9 are trees along there. It blends with the rest of it,

10 so I remain where I'm standing as well.

11 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Anything further?

12 MEMBER SANGHVI: I think I said my peace

13 enough last time.

14 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Member Ibe, any comments

15 to let the Board know what you're feeling?

16 MEMBER IBE: Well, Mr. Chair, I was not here

17 last month. Unfortunately, I was away in Europe, but

18 I'm sure -- I don't have -- unfortunately, I don't have

19 the package that was originally done with this case,

20 with my stuff, so -- but if I may say that pole signs

21 are not usually something that we -- that we are pretty

22 particular about in the City of Novi. And I'm sure

23 everyone will probably agree to that. They're not the

24 most pleasing sight to look at. I certainly wouldn't

25 want one in front of my house or across the street from



1 me.

2 And if we begin to go down this route, like

3 Member Gedeon stated, it becomes almost like a slippery

4 slope, people come back next this time, I can see

5 somebody coming back here and saying, you know what,

6 you just granted one to Collex Collision. You know,

7 this is going to be a good argument, because after all,

8 we just used it. I mean, that is -- I mean, you're an

9 attorney, you know what I mean. It's called precedent.

10 You begin to set one gradually, before you know it, the

11 exception becomes the rule.

12 And once the exception becomes the rule, it

13 becomes something that we (inaudible) in the laws, and

14 there will be no enforcement of the ordinance.

15 Right now, I can certainly tell you that I am

16 not particularly in favor of a pole sign. I believe

17 the County is not saying that you should stay with the

18 second choice, but the County has been neutral

19 actually, we all deference to Member Krieger here, the

20 County has been neutral in saying, look, we have

21 offered you two choice here. So you decide which one

22 you want.

23 The owner prefers this, but we don't

24 really -- I don't believe the County is making -- is

25 dictating to this Board where we should stand.



1 But I think that, if you would ask me what my

2 position is right now, it would will probably be

3 against the pole sign. And I will probably be in favor

4 of the second option that was suggested.

5 Thank you, Mr. Chair.

6 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Thank you. While I

7 understood, I mean, you kind of get an idea of where

8 the Board is going.

9 MR. GAGLIANO: We didn't ask this for this,

10 you guys. You know, we are not coming here --

11 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: If you can just speak at

12 the podium.

13 MR. GAGLIANO: I'm Rob Gagliano, one of the

14 owners of Collex.

15 The thing you're not seeing here is, this is

16 not me coming in here because I want a new, bigger

17 sign. I didn't ask for the road to be widened. I

18 didn't ask to lose a bunch of my property. I didn't

19 ask for a driveway that's going to be 14 feet high. I

20 didn't ask for any of this kind of stuff.

21 The City, the County is widening Novi Road.

22 It's a great thing for the City, it needed to be done.

23 Effectively, because of that, we have a

24 unique situation, that's the bottom line. I don't know

25 what it is that you have such a holdup with pole signs.



1 We are not going to put up a piece of wood with -- a

2 piece of plywood up there, it will be a nice sign.

3 But you're going to put me out of business.

4 People can't see me where we are at with the road

5 being -- the driveway, if you haven't studied the

6 plans, are projected to be 14 feet higher than what it

7 is today, is that correct, Mr. Rollinger?

8 MR. ROLLINGER: I can't --

9 MR. GAGLIANO: Fourteen feet higher than what

10 it is today. So picture where I'm at on Novi Road, and

11 picture a road that's now 14 feet higher than what it

12 is, and that's what I will be looking at, so we

13 referenced the Harold's Frame situation because it's

14 similar. I did speak to the owner over there, and that

15 is a pole sign that you folks granted to them at some

16 point in the past, so they were granted that.

17 As Member Krieger mentioned, Michigan CAT got

18 a humungous pole sign 150 feet away from us. The

19 shopping mall across the street has a humungous pole

20 sign across the street from us.

21 So there are pole signs already there. We

22 are not asking for something that is unreasonable here.

23 I don't want a monument sign, where they have

24 the proposed 32 square feet on the north side of the

25 building, you're talking about putting a postage stamp



1 on the corner of a building. There is a window there.

2 There is a parking lot light there. You're talking

3 about jamming in this sign on the corner of the

4 building. It would look ridiculous for one.

5 So we don't want that. If that's what you're

6 going to grant me today, keep it, and we will just go

7 to court and do whatever we got to do to proceed.

8 I'm not in for a monument sign. So if we

9 can't approve the pole sign, thank you very much, we

10 will go about our business and do whatever we got to

11 do. Thank you.

12 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: While I understand your

13 position, sir, as you know, we don't write the

14 ordinances, we simply grant or deny your requests based

15 or your proofs.

16 I have listened to the testimony again. I

17 have listened to the theories of my other members, and

18 in this case, clearly, the intent of the City is to not

19 issue anymore pole signs.

20 I mean, whether some were there before under

21 various previous ordinances, it's not our concern

22 necessarily today.

23 I understand your point, they're valid

24 points, but unfortunately, at this time, I couldn't.

25 I'm not inclined to grant it either, so --



1 MR. GAGLIANO: Do you what you got to do.

2 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Anything further by the

3 Board? Member Skelcy?

4 MEMBER SKELCY: Just one more thing. I

5 believe that Collex is a destination location as well.

6 I know that having -- currently working in the

7 insurance industry that, they get referrals from

8 various insurance companies. I think that people don't

9 just drive by and think, oh, I'm going to go to Collex

10 because I got in a fender-bender.

11 I think that comes about, you know, after a

12 particular incident, now they're looking for a place to

13 have the work done. So again, I think it's a

14 destination location, and having a monument sign would

15 be adequate, and as Member Gedeon said, the least

16 intrusive variance that we can provide based on the

17 City ordinances. Thank you.


19 MS. KUDLA: I just wanted to remind the Board

20 that the Road Commission is the applicant, so even

21 though the property owner may not want the wall sign,

22 you can still make the decision to grant that.

23 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Correct. Anything else by

24 the Board? If not, I will entertain a motion.

25 Member Skelcy?



1 MEMBER SKELCY: In the case of 11-010 for the

2 address of 25100 Novi Road, Collex, Gagliano

3 Enterprises, Inc., I move that we grant the applicant a

4 ground mounted re-installation of the existing sign on

5 monument and an addition wall sign of up to 30 square

6 feet on the north building elevation.

7 As well, that we grant the variance for the

8 proposed 8-foot height of the ground sign to

9 accommodate the new road embankment, and to allow the

10 additional wall sign of 30 square feet maximum.

11 This is based on the fact -- this variance

12 will be granted to the RCOC under MCL 213.54(2) and are

13 subject to the requirements of MCL 213.54(2) including

14 as follows: The property shall be considered by the

15 governmental entity to be in conformity with the zoning

16 ordinance for all future issues, with respect to the

17 non-conformity for which that variance was granted.

18 However, if the property was also

19 non-conforming for other reasons, the grant of that

20 variance has no effect on the status of those other

21 preexisting non-conformities.

22 An owner shall not increase the

23 non-conformity for which a variance is granted under

24 the section without the consent of the governmental

25 entity.



1 An agency has the same right to appeal action

2 on a zoning variance, as would a property owner seeking

3 a zoning variance. This section does not deprive a

4 governmental entity of its discretion to grant or deny

5 a variance.

6 I believe that the standards for granting

7 this particular variance have been met, in that, the

8 circumstances of the features are exceptional and

9 unique to the property, based on the fact that a bridge

10 is being built on Novi Road, and it does not result

11 from conditions that exist generally in the city and

12 are not self-created. I do believe that the standard

13 has been met and that the failure to grant relief will

14 unreasonably prevent or limit the use of the property

15 and will result in substantially more than mere

16 inconvenience or inability to attain a high economic or

17 financial return.

18 Finally, the grant of relief will not result

19 in a use of structure that is incompatible with or

20 unreasonably interferes with the adjacent or

21 surrounding properties. It will result in substantial

22 justice being done to both the applicant and the

23 adjacent or surrounding properties, and is not

24 inconsistent with the spirit of the ordinance.

25 MEMBER IBE: Second.



1 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Any further discussion?

2 Seeing none, can you please the call the roll.

3 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Gedeon?


5 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Chairman Ghannam?


7 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Ibe?


9 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Krieger?


11 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Sanghvi?


13 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Skelcy?


15 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Motion passes four to two.

16 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Do we need to make a

17 motion on the other request, the pole sign request, or

18 just this was any alternative?

19 MS. KUDLA: I would make a motion to deny the

20 pole sign as well.

21 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Just for clarification.

22 MS. KUDLA: Yes.

23 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Member Skelcy would you

24 like to do that.

25 MEMBER SKELCY: In the case of 11-010, 25100



1 Novi, for Collex, Gagliano Enterprises, Inc., I move

2 that we deny the request for the variance for the pole

3 sign.

4 This is based on the fact that the request is

5 not based on circumstances and features that are

6 exceptional and unique to the property, and does not --

7 and does result from conditions that exist generally in

8 the City or that are self-created.

9 It is also that the failure to grant relief

10 will not unreasonably prevent or limit the use of the

11 property, and will not result in substantially more

12 than mere inconvenience or inability to attain a higher

13 economic or financial return.

14 Finally, the grant of relief in this

15 particular request would result in a use of structure

16 that is incompatible with or unreasonably interferes

17 with the adjacent or surrounding properties, will

18 result in substantial injustice being done to both

19 applicant and the adjacent and surrounding properties.

20 And it is inconsistent with the spirit of the

21 ordinance.

22 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: If I can just add that, in

23 addition to those bases, that fact we just wanted a

24 motion for a wall monument sign, is that okay?




1 MS. KUDLA: I would ask that you add to that

2 motion, or recommend that you add to the motion, that

3 the alternative variance granted was a lesser variance

4 that was more consistent with the spirit and intent of

5 the ordinance, and meets the -- is a lesser variance

6 meeting the needs of the applicant.

7 MEMBER SKELCY: I would like to adopt that

8 statement by counsel.

9 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Any seconds?


11 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Any further discussion?

12 Seeing none, Ms. Pawlowski, can you please call the

13 roll.

14 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Gedeon?


16 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Chairman Ghannam?


18 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Ibe?


20 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Krieger?


22 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Sanghvi?


24 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Skelcy?




1 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Motions passes four to two.

2 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Thank you. Next on the

3 agenda is Case No. 11-021 for 26940 Taft Road, Stone

4 City, Inc.. Is the applicant here?


6 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: If you can please state

7 your name and address, sir.

8 MR. SOULLIERE: Roger Soulliere, 15920

9 Plymouth, Clinton Township.

10 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Are you an attorney?

11 MR. SOULLIERE: No. I'm the owner of Stone

12 City.

13 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: If you can raise your hand

14 and be sworn, please.

15 MEMBER SKELCY: Do you swear or affirm to

16 tell the truth?


18 MEMBER SKELCY: Thank you.


20 MR. SOULLIERE: Yes. We'd like to request an

21 extension to our current variance we have for Stone

22 City. We have had it four or five times extensions on

23 it.

24 We have done numerous improvements to the

25 site from the time we have gone into there with a green



1 belt along the expressway line, given it good

2 screenage, protection. We've -- in the -- since the

3 last extension that we have had, we've demolished the

4 home out front, spent nearly $20,000 to improve the

5 looks of the site.

6 And with economic times, the way they are,

7 we'd love to be able to put a building and put

8 everything inside. At this time, it's unable to do it.

9 I am working on plans, which we have already

10 established a granite facility for sales, so that we

11 would have a year-round business that we can put inside

12 and it makes more sense.

13 So out of our Utica location, we have already

14 established that last year, to get that up and going.

15 Our intent is to have somewhat like a Surface

16 Encounters, like an interior granite and limestone

17 sales facility where we can start enclosing, having

18 more of an interior type stone facility in the near

19 future. That would be our goal.

20 Right now, it would be quite an undertaking,

21 and times are just starting to come back, where we are

22 not in the negative column, and hopefully we have

23 weathered the worst of the storm of the construction

24 and downturn, where people are starting to reinvest

25 into their own. They are finding that Stone City is a



1 very nice place, good samples, very friendly. I think

2 a good edition to Novi, has a hometown-type feel. And

3 we are getting pretty turnout with local contractors

4 that can come in close and homeowners that can pick

5 their material and be able to get it quickly.

6 Then it is out of the way, on the side, even

7 last year right next-door, they had a concrete

8 crushing, and there has been a lot of activity around

9 there, you know, helps get everybody working in there.

10 And I don't think we disrupted anything. We have had

11 any real complaints because of the location we are, and

12 we hope that you would take that into consideration.

13 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Anything else, sir?


15 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Is there anybody from the

16 public who would like to make a comment on this

17 particular case?

18 Seeing none, I will close the public remarks

19 section and ask our secretary to read any

20 correspondence.

21 MEMBER SKELCY: 21 notices were mailed, no

22 responses, four were returned by the post office.

23 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Anything from the City on

24 this particular matter?

25 MS. KUDLA: No.



1 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Nothing. Then I will open

2 it up to the Board for discussion. Member Skelcy?

3 MEMBER SKELCY: When do you think you are

4 going to start building that building? Do you have any

5 idea?

6 MR. SOULLIERE: I would hope -- our first

7 goal was to start getting some activity. We started

8 about a year and a half ago in Utica, and we are

9 getting good turnout with an interior where people can

10 come year-round and pick their interior stone.

11 And our goal was first clean up the site, get

12 rid of the home. I would say within two years, I want

13 to plans in for next year, that gives me at least six

14 months to let it work.

15 So I would say within two years I would be

16 able to start fulfilling what my grand plan would be.

17 MEMBER SKELCY: Would you then store some of

18 the general outside stone in a warehouse type portion

19 of that building? Were you thinking of doing that?

20 MR. SOULLIERE: What I have found is, I

21 checked around, there is some other sites that I have

22 seen where they have the facade and just the backdoor

23 that opens up, that was kind of like in a corral, where

24 you really wouldn't see it, it would look like

25 virtually a building on the outside, but the inside,



1 because there is gravels and stuff, that's -- silicas

2 and stuff that you couldn't really put all inside.

3 And that's our biggest problem, a lot of the

4 stuff is bulk materials, mulches and stuff like that.

5 Unlike a Home Depot, where they may have more bag

6 products, we have more bulk products, which is suitable

7 for people that want larger quantities.

8 MEMBER SKELCY: So for some items you would

9 bring it inside, but others would have to remain out?

10 MR. SOULLIERE: Yeah, more of a dry storage,

11 where it would just have a facade, is what we

12 envisioned. So from the outside, it looked like it's

13 in a building, but once you're in the corral, you can

14 get into the bulks and the bins.

15 MEMBER SKELCY: Okay, thank you.

16 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: With that in mind, how

17 would any variance help you? Because in your zoning,

18 you have to have everything within a building, your

19 operations. I mean, what you're saying right now, is

20 your intent is that you will never enclose certain

21 items.

22 MR. SOULLIERE: It depends on how they how

23 they recite, if that's totally inside. So the back may

24 be open, but it will still be covered all the way on

25 the front and the top.



1 If -- I guess there is a fine line, even at

2 like Home Depot, they have got things in facade, you

3 still have stuff outside.

4 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: I'm just giving you what

5 the City is citing to us. It is siting a section

6 1905-1, it states that all uses within an I1 district

7 shall be conducted wholly within a completely enclosed

8 building. What you're telling us is your intent is not

9 to do that. At some point you will need a permanent

10 variance.

11 Because keep in mind, in this case, sir,

12 because you need this type of variance, your burden is

13 what we call undue hardship, which is a little bit

14 different than practical difficulty. So the question

15 becomes, you have had this for how many years now, has

16 it been 10 years or 11 years?

17 MR. SOULLIERE: Correct.

18 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: So the question is, you

19 know, your intent is not to basically comply with that

20 particular section, having it wholly enclosed, so how

21 is any variance going to help you?

22 I mean, this would -- wouldn't you agree this

23 would tend to become a permanent request by you?

24 MR. SOULLIERE: Whether there could be a

25 variation of that, that would allow semi-enclosed,



1 whether there was -- you know, that was our

2 exploration, anything there. From the get-go, we put

3 in plans for what we were going to do. It was -- I

4 don't know how it got overlooked, when I put in my

5 plans, and we got approvals, then they -- it was kind

6 of brought to us that it wouldn't work after we were

7 already operational. And that's why they have been so

8 gracious in working with me on this, to come up with a

9 plan. Let's keep it tight, let's get it screened. We

10 have made a lot of improvements to the site, to make

11 sure that it went from a very low class pallet storage,

12 that nobody wanted to ever see. And we took it from

13 there, to at least a garden center type atmosphere,

14 where it is something that most communities do have.

15 And it's almost impossible. So we are hoping to have a

16 hybrid type where we get the majority of it inside. If

17 there was some outside, as of, you know, big box

18 stores, they have got their outdoor areas, they're not

19 totally inside. They have plants. They have materials

20 that are outside, somewhat of a hybrid like that. So

21 how would something like that have a past, you know.

22 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: I don't know the answer to

23 all those questions. All I'm saying that is our

24 ordinance says, in your district, you have to conduct

25 your business within a wholly, completely enclosed



1 building. And right now you're not doing that. You

2 are -- you do face the freeway, correct?

3 MR. SOULLIERE: Correct.

4 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: So it is visible from the

5 freeway, which is, you know, it's like being on a major

6 road. Here you have hundreds, if not thousands of cars

7 going by per day looking at this.

8 So I guess the question becomes, how do you

9 meet our standards. That you can't use this property

10 as reasonably intended and so forth. Anything else

11 that you can offer us?

12 MR. SOULLIERE: One of the other phases would

13 be selling more materials that would be all inside,

14 then I would have to go into more bag products for the

15 other materials, or have off site just for bulk

16 materials. Because the pallets materials can go

17 inside. Our intention is the majority of our business

18 is going to be interior materials, granites,

19 limestones. There is palletized materials that you can

20 still go inside without a problem.

21 So long-term, if that is where I needed to

22 be, you know, divide up some of that, where I didn't

23 need all of that property, that could be an avenue that

24 I can approach.

25 We are looking for a way of continuing our



1 operations. We have been there, family owned business,

2 for quite a few years, for 31 years, you know, in the

3 stone business.

4 We would work towards something that would

5 conform, that would work well with the City of Novi,

6 since they have definitely been working with me all

7 along the way. We wouldn't stop then. We would

8 (inaudible) with the building department, kind of come

9 up with a -- something that would conform and would

10 work.

11 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Anybody else have any

12 questions or comments?

13 Seeing none, would anybody like to make a

14 motion? Member Krieger?

15 MEMBER KRIEGER: From the satellite view, I

16 don't know how you would enclose it. You would have to

17 have to something that would be -- I don't know how the

18 delivery, you would have to come over with th e big

19 trucks like Angelos on Wixom Road, I don't know if it's

20 similar to that?

21 MR. SOULLIERE: What I have seen is, over at

22 Rocks and Roots, out in Romeo, they have a similar

23 situation, where the outside looks like an exterior

24 face, and it's a facade. So from all four sides, and

25 just the center is open so the trucks can lift up high



1 enough to dump out. That would be one avenue.

2 If over time, we couldn't come up with that,

3 if we had to completely put it inside, then we would

4 have to go with a different type of a business plan,

5 but I think we are going towards that business plan, of

6 doing interior, where everything is inside anyway.

7 All stone is on display. It is more of a

8 finished, more showroom type, like Dixie Stone was over

9 there. We purchased their assets of Dixie, all their

10 granite slabs that they had, and that's what we are

11 working and marketing and selling to become a stone

12 supplier for interior and exterior.

13 So they have done it in an industrial

14 complex, even though they have, unfortunately went out

15 of business, because they couldn't get enough business

16 going. We were looking to have somewhat of a hybrid of

17 that, be able to take care of the inside and support

18 the outside.

19 Because most of the exteriors, just like

20 Pennetas, and some of the other ones, have really

21 struggled not having winter work, you just have to shut

22 it down all winter. We are trying to supplement that,

23 so that would give us the extra revenue to afford to

24 build a nicer showroom, nicer display that would you a

25 year-round business, that would be able to take care of



1 customers year-round and see the products that we sell.

2 MEMBER KRIEGER: If you have been here though

3 31 years, you're looking for another five years, I

4 don't understand as well, because down the street,

5 Anglin's was there, and she had a lot outdoor as well,

6 she couldn't enclose it all, so she is not going to be

7 there. So I guess, you would have to work it out with

8 the City, so I'm not sure if five years would -- you

9 would need to have a plan to work with the City, but I

10 think five years is too much.

11 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: The problem, sir, from

12 what I'm gathering, you're asking for what we call a

13 use variance. You want to do something there that

14 you're not supposed to do, obviously, that's why you

15 have come for a variance.

16 The problem is, if you're doing something for

17 10 or 11 years that you're not supposed to be doing,

18 you're basically asking us for rezoning, which we don't

19 do.

20 We grant variances for various things based

21 on, you know, our particular standards. That's why I'm

22 having an issue with continued use of something, you're

23 not supposed to be doing. That's all I'm saying.

24 Because unless you get something from the

25 City, such as a rezoning, where you can do what you



1 want to do, this is going to be very difficult to

2 extend this.

3 Member Ibe?

4 MEMBER IBE: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Sir, I'm

5 looking at your notes here, the application you filled

6 out. And you state that without outside storage

7 business would likely close. Is that what you're

8 saying?

9 MR. SOULLIERE: Until we get our interior

10 business thriving.

11 MEMBER IBE: The way I read this, it tells me

12 that no matter what, it will be outside storage period.

13 MR. SOULLIERE: I think that, you know, what

14 I'm trying to get in, is that a mix that I can get the

15 interior business working. I can move all my

16 palletized material. We have been condensing down over

17 the years, tightening up that type of use. And more

18 products are more on pallets, on bulk materials, less

19 of a storage, as what we are trying to market, along

20 with the interior stone, which is a lot of cut stone in

21 boxes, on pallets.

22 So our whole drive was to try to make this

23 site work by selling products that we can completely

24 put inside.

25 Now, if the five years becomes too long, I'm



1 willing to consider, you know, sometime within a

2 three-year that I could definitely have it taken care

3 of, and then, if, you know, at that point, I'm either

4 going to move out and just make it in two sites, an

5 exterior site for bulks, and that leave all the

6 palletized materials for a enclosed, or sell the site

7 and work at a different place.

8 It's a problematic site. It's a tough site,

9 you have been very generous in let us have the signage

10 to get people there. We have worked through the road,

11 you know, definitely it's a challenge all the way

12 around. I mean, I think for you and for us, too. And

13 we get so many great comments, glad you're here, you're

14 close, you know, they enjoy coming in.

15 But if we can at least give me enough time to

16 work the rest of my plan, that I know is a good plan to

17 have the interior and the exterior and get it tightened

18 up inside.

19 I have got a few people that are already

20 talking to me, like Great Oaks Landscape, stuff like

21 that, that would give me room to put bulks out there

22 and then truck it from there. And just have the bag

23 materials for the pickup and then be able to truck it

24 from there.

25 But I need a little bit more time to get this



1 working, and nobody really figured that the housing

2 market and that would just go down so low, that you

3 couldn't even get any traction. There has just been

4 one hurdle after another to kind of get my plan working

5 out, and hopefully, you will, you know, give me an

6 opportunity to make it happen.

7 MEMBER IBE: Sir, you probably took the

8 (inaudible). I was going to say five years definitely

9 sounds a bit too much, because you have had this what,

10 since '99?

11 MR. SOULLIERE: Yes, it was a lease at first,

12 then I just purchased it like four or five years ago.

13 MEMBER IBE: Four or five years ago.

14 Obviously, you know the position of this Board.

15 MR. SOULLIERE: At some point it's got to

16 end.

17 MEMBER IBE: It's got to end somewhere. A

18 rule is a rule. It says everything has to be enclosed.

19 Unfortunately, I think five years is being too long. I

20 don't know about three years.

21 Now, I am inclined to think two years,

22 because I'd like to get you moving, and think about

23 what you going to do, take it seriously. You know

24 what, you have enough time to think about enclosing

25 this place.



1 If I was to read your own words, I don't

2 believe I would allow for two years. Because I don't

3 believe this place will ever be enclosed. My opinion.

4 I don't believe it will ever be completely enclosed to

5 come in conformity with the ordinance.

6 But two years, I probably live with. I don't

7 know what the rest of the Board thinks about, but I

8 think, if you cannot, of course, meet the needs within

9 two years, I'm sure that you probably have other plans

10 as to what you need to do.

11 MR. SOULLIERE: I would hope they would at

12 least give me two years to put the plan together, at

13 least break ground, give me that third year to

14 construct.

15 MEMBER IBE: Thank you, Mr. Chair.

16 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Member Krieger?

17 MEMBER KRIEGER: How long would it take for a

18 rezoning request, if he needs chose that route?

19 MS. KUDLA: I mean, it just all depends

20 because he would have to put a plan together, go to the

21 City Council. They would have to approve a rezoning.

22 Whether or not they would do that, it's not clear

23 because then you're changing the character of that

24 area, you're possibly going to get objections from

25 surrounding property owners.



1 So there is no guarantee of getting rezoning.

2 It would just be similar to this, where he's putting

3 his request to another, you know, to City Council to

4 make that determination.

5 So there is no guarantees in that either.

6 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Member Gedeon?

7 MEMBER GEDEON: I was just briefly reading

8 through the transcripts from your last meeting here,

9 which I didn't have the benefit of sitting in this

10 chair at that time.

11 And some of the things you're saying now,

12 were -- some of the things that -- the issues that the

13 Board Members raised were almost word-for-word what was

14 stated two years ago.

15 But you know, that being said, obviously

16 we're in pretty hard economic times. It would

17 unfortunate, I think, to leave you -- to just simply

18 deny this outright, so I would be in support of Member

19 Ibe's suggestion of a two-year temporary extension.

20 And, you know, as you requested, you know, I

21 would -- if there was actual concrete plans in place, I

22 would not -- I would probably even go for a third year

23 after that, too. But I would want to do it in a

24 piecemeal fashion, you know, two and one, as opposed to

25 a year-year outright from the beginning.



1 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Okay. Anything else?

2 Member Skelcy?

3 MEMBER SKELCY: I would agree with Member

4 Gedeon. It sounds to me like within two years you

5 could get the open bulk items stored elsewhere, like at

6 Great Oaks, it sounds like, and then construct your

7 building for the interior items, is that what you're

8 saying today?

9 MR. SOULLIERE: Yeah, that would be my plan.

10 MEMBER SKELCY: All right. Thank you.

11 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Nothing else, I will

12 entertain a motion. Member Ibe?

13 MEMBER IBE: Thank you, Mr. Chair. In Case

14 No. 11-021, Stone City, Inc., I move that we grant the

15 petitioner's request for a period of two years. And

16 during that time, the petitioner will have the

17 opportunity to have a plan in place, that will satisfy

18 the specific ordinance.

19 The basis for granting the request for an

20 additional two years are as follows: That the property

21 cannot be reasonably used for any other uses permitted,

22 by right or by special land use permitted in a zoning

23 district in which it is located.

24 That the need for the requested variance is

25 due to unique circumstances of physical conditions of



1 the property involved, such as narrowness, shallowness,

2 shape or water, topography or similar physical

3 conditions.

4 And as the applicant stated earlier, the

5 materials that he has on this property are bulk

6 materials, the kind of things you will find maybe in

7 bag materials as businesses say as Home Depot, or

8 Lowe's.

9 So the kind of materials they have, give a

10 uniqueness that will allow for this kind of thing, for

11 at least for the next two years, as previously stated.

12 Three, that a proposed use will not alter the

13 essential character of the neighborhood, and finally

14 that a need for the requested variance, is not a result

15 of actions of the property owner or previous owners.

16 Let me also state that the applicants stated

17 that the the property was on a lease, and he bought the

18 property about five years ago. So obvoiusly the

19 downturn in the economic time (inaudible), we

20 understand that it may have been difficult in putting

21 the whole plan into play. And with the hope that

22 within the next two years, that this plan will now take

23 shape and that will now comply with the city ordinance.

24 Thank you, Mr. Chair.




1 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Seeing a motion and a

2 second, any further discussion? Seeing none, can you

3 please call the roll, Ms. Pawlowski.

4 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Gedeon?


6 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Chairman Ghannam?


8 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Ibe?


10 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Krieger?


12 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Sanghvi?


14 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Skelcy?


16 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Motion passes six to zero.

17 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Thank you, sir. Next on

18 the agenda is Item No. 5, Case No. 11-022, 41200 Bridge

19 Street.

20 Is the applicant here?

21 MR. HADLEY: Yes.

22 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Sir, state your name and

23 address, please.

24 MR. HADLEY: Lawrence D. Hadley, 5962 Trotter

25 Lane, West Bloomfield, Michigan.



1 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Can you raise your right

2 hand and be sworn.

3 MEMBER SKELCY: Do you swear or affirm to

4 tell the truth?

5 MR. HADLEY: I do.

6 MEMBER SKELCY: Thank you.

7 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Please go ahead.

8 MR. HADLEY: I am an employee of Certified

9 Management Company, the applicant here. And the reason

10 for our need for having an extended period of this sign

11 is the visibility on Meadowbrook Road is more important

12 nowadays, in these difficult economic times.

13 This is something we didn't have before. We

14 were granted this extension -- this variance a couple

15 of years ago, and we are still 30 percent vacant in our

16 multi-tenant plex, light industrial project.

17 And so we have got, you know, our -- the

18 practical difficulty we have got, is the fact that

19 leasing market is so very, very difficult, so having

20 the ability to get exposure on Meadowbrook is

21 important.

22 And then the secondary issue, the unique

23 circumstance is that there is a berm on Meadowbrook

24 Road that blocks visibility of our project from the

25 roadway.



1 So even though we're permitted a sign without

2 any variance there, you know, one can't really see that

3 from Meadowbrook Road.

4 In ordinary times, and in a good market that

5 would be sufficient. But in a really weak market, such

6 as we have now, and we're -- you know, we need that

7 extra exposure on Meadowbrook Road, and that's the

8 basis for our request.

9 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Anything else, sir?

10 MR. HADLEY: No, sir.

11 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Anybody from the public

12 would like to make a comment, on this particular case,

13 please raise your hand.

14 Seeing none, I will close the public remarks

15 section and ask our secretary to read any

16 correspondence.

17 MEMBER SKELCY: Thirty-two notices were

18 mailed, no responses, four were returned by the post

19 office.

20 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Any comments from the

21 City?

22 MS. KUDLA: No.

23 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Then I will open it up to

24 the Board for discussion. Member Skelcy?

25 MEMBER SKELCY: So the first time you came in



1 front of the board was in 2007, and that was four years

2 ago. And -- for the first variance.

3 Now, you may not have been here, but someone

4 for this company did. So, you know, I'm kind of

5 getting, you know, that feel when is a temporary sign a

6 permanent sign.

7 And I think four years is getting pretty

8 close to that. I'm open to hearing what the other

9 Board Members have to say about that, but I'm kind of

10 leaning towards not granting it because I don't want it

11 to become a permanent, temporary sign. Thank you.

12 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Actually I just had one

13 question. From the City's perspective, they are

14 entitled to one sign, correct?

15 MS. KUDLA: One -- what type of --

16 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: They're entitled to this

17 type of sign, just not the size.

18 MS. KUDLA: Oversized, right.

19 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: They're entitled to 16

20 square foot, they're requesting 24 square foot.

21 MS. KUDLA: Correct.

22 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: I guess my question is

23 sir, question what difference does it make to you, to

24 request a variance for that extra few square footage?

25 MR. HADLEY: Because it makes a difference in



1 the size of the sign, and the ability to grab the

2 eyeballs of the motorist going down the highway.

3 Signs are -- you know, even in this high tech

4 world, yes, we do get lots of leads and so forth, over

5 the internet or what have you, but we still get people

6 that call us off of our sign. That is still a primary

7 function of communication.

8 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: No, I understand, granted

9 bigger is always better, but, you know, the city,

10 according to their own ordinance, has a particular

11 calculation, as to, you know, how you -- what you're

12 entitled to, so why do you come -- or why do you think

13 you are an exception to this rule for this many years?

14 MR. HADLEY: Because of the extremely weak

15 market that we have been faced with for, in essence,

16 several years.

17 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: The problem is, if you use

18 that argument, that's specifically not something we

19 should consider. The economic -- I understand people

20 use it, it's very sympathetic, don't get me wrong, but

21 that is something we cannot consider. Anything else

22 that you can offer us?

23 MR. HADLEY: That's all I have today.

24 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Anybody else? Member

25 Gedeon?



1 MEMBER GEDEON: I'm going to come to your

2 support here because in your introduction, you

3 mentioned that there was a berm on Meadowbrook Road

4 that was preventing visibility of a normal size sign.

5 Do you standby that statement?

6 MR. HADLEY: Yes.

7 MEMBER GEDEON: You know, I did not have the

8 opportunity to drive by this, so I cannot confirm that

9 statement, but he has sworn under oath, and I think

10 that would be a valid reason for granting a variance of

11 only eight square feet, in this case, over what he's

12 otherwise entitled to.

13 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Anybody else? Member

14 Krieger?

15 MEMBER KRIEGER: I would agree. I have

16 driven Meadowbrook, there are hills there. So given

17 the speed, given the topography, that I would be able

18 to support this for another year.

19 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Anybody else? Member

20 Ibe -- I'm sorry. Member Sanghvi. We will get you

21 first.

22 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. I'm just going

23 to say, I drive by there almost four times a week, and

24 it's a very peculiar topography. I think this sign is

25 barely visible, actually, this size itself. Thank you.



1 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Member Ibe, any comments?

2 MEMBER IBE: Sure. Sir, how much longer do

3 you think you'll need a sign?

4 MR. HADLEY: I believe we applied for a year,

5 didn't we? I did not submit this application. I was

6 asked to --

7 MEMBER IBE: I know. I just hate to have

8 this revolving door every year to come back for one

9 more year. That's why I'm asking. Were you able to

10 figure out from the parties how much longer we going to

11 have this. We don't want it to be 10 years from now,

12 we are still dealing with the same sign over and over

13 again.

14 MR. HADLEY: I'm sure we are hopeful because

15 these signs are expensive to put up and maintain, that,

16 you know, one year will do it because we are seeing

17 improvement room in the marketplace.

18 MEMBER IBE: I will take your word for it,

19 sir. Thank you.

20 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: If there is no comments, I

21 will entertain a motion. Member Gedeon?

22 MEMBER GEDEON: In case 11-022, 41200 Bridge

23 Street, I move that we grant the variance as requested

24 for an oversized leasing sign of 24 square feet, for

25 the reasons that the request is based on circumstances



1 or features that are exceptional and unique to the

2 property, and do not result in conditions that are

3 generally present in the city. Specifically, the

4 applicant indicated that there is a berm preventing

5 disability of a normal size sign and other Board

6 Members mentioned that the property is situated and has

7 a unique topography as situated.

8 Failure to grant the relief will unreasonably

9 prevent or limit the use of the property and will

10 result in substantially more than a mere inconvenience

11 or inability to attain higher economic or financial

12 return. The grant of relief will not result in a use

13 of structure that is incompatible or unreasonably

14 interferes with adjacent or surrounding properties,

15 will result in substantial justice being done to both

16 the applicant and the adjacent or surrounding

17 properties and is not consistent with the spirit of the

18 ordinance.

19 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Did you want to want limit

20 to a time period?

21 MEMBER GEDEON: Yes, I would like to -- the

22 applicant didn't specify a time period, did they?

23 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: I think their

24 recommendation was about one year.

25 MEMBER GEDEON: I will time limit it for one



1 year.


3 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Any further discussion?

4 Seeing none, can you please call the roll,

5 Ms. Pawlowski.

6 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Gedeon?


8 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Chairman Ghannam?


10 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Ibe?


12 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Krieger?


14 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Sanghvi?


16 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Skelcy?


18 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Motion passes six to zero.

19 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Thank you. You're all

20 set.

21 MR. HADLEY: I'm the next one.

22 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Oh, you're the next one,

23 too.

24 Next on the agenda then is Case No -- Item

25 No. 6, Case No. 11-023 for 25795 Meadowbrook Road.



1 Sir, state your name, again, for the record.

2 MR. HADLEY: Lawrence D. Hadley.

3 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: You're still -- consider

4 yourself under oath. You can go ahead, continue with

5 this request.

6 MR. HADLEY: This circumstances is somewhat

7 similar to the one I described. This property is on

8 the west side of Meadowbrook Road, immediately south of

9 Eleven Mile Road. And there is a large single tenant

10 building in front of this complex, and there are three

11 multi-tenant complexes in the rear. There is also a

12 very large wetland area in front of that single tenant

13 building.

14 Furthermore, on Eleven Mile Road, on the

15 north side of the property there is another

16 multi-tenant complex, that is also very heavily wooded.

17 So there is really no ability whatsoever to

18 see any signage, let alone the buildings, from

19 Meadowbrook Road, because of that situation, plus the

20 topography, because I believe the property slopes

21 somewhat upwards, just where you go up the driveway.

22 So there is a slight upwards slope to the topography.

23 So that particular set of topography issues,

24 combined with the same, economic issues, this complex

25 is newer, it's 40 almost, 50 years percent vacant. Is



1 the reason for our particular hardship and need and

2 circumstances.

3 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Anybody from the public

4 that would like to make a comment on this?

5 Seeing none, I will close that public remarks

6 section and ask the secretary to read any

7 correspondence.

8 MEMBER SKELCY: Forty-five notices were

9 mailed. No responses. One returned by the post

10 office.

11 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Any comments from the

12 City?

13 MS. KUDLA: No.

14 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Seeing none, Board Members

15 any questions or comments? Member Krieger?

16 MEMBER KRIEGER: Is a year okay?

17 MR. HADLEY: Yes, ma'am.

18 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: I have no problem with

19 that either. It is a similar situation. I understand

20 that. And the size is not obviously much larger. So

21 if anybody wants to make a motion. Member Krieger?

22 MEMBER KRIEGER: In Case No. 11-023 at 25795

23 Meadowbrook Road, I move to approve the applicant's

24 request for the extension of the variance granting his

25 24 square foot oversized real estate sign located at



1 25795 Meadowbrook Road, to extend this for one year,

2 and their request is based on the circumstances and

3 features of this area, and unique because of the

4 wetlands and speed and hilliness of Meadowbrook.

5 The failure to grant relief will prevent the

6 applicant, the right to use the property, for higher

7 economic return, and it is consistent within the spirit

8 of the ordinance.


10 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Any further discussion?

11 Seeing none, Ms. Pawlowski, can you please call the

12 roll.

13 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Gedeon?


15 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Chairman Ghannam?


17 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Ibe?


19 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Krieger?


21 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Sanghvi?


23 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Skelcy?


25 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Motion passes six to zero.



1 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Thank you, sir.

2 MR. HADLEY: Thank you for your time.

3 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Next on the agenda is Item

4 No. 7, Case No. 11-024, 21470 Novi Road, The Oil

5 Exchange. Sir, please state your name and address.

6 MR. REDA: Fred Reda, address 21470 Novi

7 Road.

8 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Please raise your right

9 hand and be sworn.

10 MEMBER SKELCY: Do you swear or affirm to

11 tell the truth?

12 MR. REDA: Yes.

13 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Go ahead, sir.

14 MR. REDA: I request the Board to have us

15 open us our front big doors half way during the months

16 of June, July and August. It gets very hot. There is

17 no cross-breeze going through.

18 It gets over 100 degrees in there, especially

19 when the cars come in for service, and we open the

20 hoods, the hot air fills up the whole shop and has

21 nowhere to go.

22 So the guys in there, they're very

23 uncomfortable, and we service over 1,000 cars a month,

24 provide service to the community and now customers come

25 in there, to help them out with their tires, their



1 washer fluid, all free of charge.

2 I'm not asking for much, only half way up to

3 here, for three months out of the year in order to just

4 get a cross-breeze.

5 My manager went two days ago, and he got a

6 petition signed for around the neighborhood over there,

7 131 petitions, customers there are for it.

8 It's not an eyesore. The doors are open half

9 way. The employees there have to have uniforms on, and

10 their shirts are tucked in, so nothing really -- I

11 don't think it should be a problem having the doors

12 open half way for three months out of the year.

13 That's about it.

14 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Thank you, sir. I will

15 open it up to the public for any comments. Anybody

16 want to make a comment on this particular case?

17 Sir, please step forward. State your name

18 and address.

19 MR. WIDAK: My name is Joseph Widak. The

20 address is 21530 Novi Road.

21 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Raise your right hand and

22 be sworn.

23 MEMBER SKELCY: Do you swear or affirm to

24 tell the truth?

25 MR. WIDAK: I do.



1 MEMBER SKELCY: Thank you.

2 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Go ahead, sir.

3 MR. WIDAK: I am the owner of Novi Motive, or

4 my trust is. And when we built our building, original

5 part of the building, nine bays, we also asked for a

6 door facing Novi Road, and we were denied that because

7 of the zoning ordinances. Consequently, we had to move

8 our door to the side, we lost the use of a showroom and

9 we lost working space.

10 When the Oil Exchange was originally proposed

11 and built, I believe it was under a different name,

12 they were granted side yard variances, front yard

13 variances, and the right to have their bay doors facing

14 Novi Road.

15 It is my belief that this is unfair to other

16 businesses, such as myself, that had to conform to the

17 ordinance. And yet, to grant not only a variance for

18 front bay doors, now we want -- the petitioner wants to

19 make a request for a variance on the variance.

20 My building, for the most part, does not look

21 like a repair shop. Many of my customers had a hard

22 time finding it because it looks like more like an

23 office building than it does an actual 14,000 square

24 feet repair facility.

25 I had to put a lawn in front of my building.



1 Now on either side of me I have asphalt parking lots.

2 So I feel that if you grant a variance on

3 this variance, then you need to look at many other

4 facilities on Novi Road granting them variances, too.

5 Granted, we have tough economic times, but

6 how far do you want to go with your variances. Thank

7 you.

8 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Thank you, sir. Anybody

9 else in the audience that would like make a comment on

10 this particular case?

11 Seeing none, I will close the public remarks

12 section and ask our secretary to read any

13 correspondence.

14 MEMBER SKELCY: 32 notices were mailed with

15 two objections. One objection came from the prior

16 speaker, Mr. Joseph Widak. His letter is dated

17 July 28th, 2011, and the letter he sent contains the

18 same statements he made to us here today.

19 The other one comes from Doris J. Craig,

20 C-R-A-I-G, located at 43412 Gallway Drive, dated July

21 9th, 2011.

22 She states, please do not allow the Oil

23 Exchange to operate with the overhead service bay doors

24 facing the entrance, to our subdivision to be open at

25 any time. Anyone exiting Gallway onto Novi Road looks



1 directly into the Oil Exchange, which is not a pleasant

2 site.

3 At the time this facility was being built, a

4 promise was made by the Zoning Board that they would

5 never allow the Oil Exchange to operate with the doors

6 open. I beg you to keep this promise.

7 Also, it was promised that if the owner did

8 not abide by the agreement, they would be closed down.

9 In the interest of all the homeowners who

10 have spent time and money to improve and maintain our

11 area, please protect our investments by demanding that

12 the Oil Exchange obey the ordinances as they stand.

13 Absolutely no variance granted and severe penalties for

14 non-compliance. Thank you, Doris Craig.

15 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Okay. Any questions or

16 comments from the City?

17 MS. KUDLA: No.

18 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: None. I will open it up

19 to the Board for discussion. Andy?

20 MR. GERECKE: One thing that was brought up,

21 too, that since between 2006 and 2008, there has been

22 some landscaping that was removed on the front islands

23 there, that was on the west and the north of it. That

24 sort of screened those these doors somewhat, to make it

25 look a little nicer, and that's all gone now.



1 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Would that screen would in

2 area like the bottom, several feet where they went up?

3 MR. GERECKE: Not particularly, no. But it's

4 just coming from the north and the south I think it

5 would screen the building somewhat.

6 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: I will open it up to the

7 Board for discussion. Member Krieger?

8 MEMBER KRIEGER: I don't understand for the

9 petitioner, why the site isn't air conditioned, or you

10 have some kind of other ventilation, other?

11 MR. REDA: The doors are always opening and

12 closing. There is no point in putting an air

13 conditioner in. It's just a waste of money. When the

14 cars come in, you have to open the doors to let them

15 in. They're high doors. When you let them out, all

16 the cold air is going to leave. So there is no point.

17 I don't think any oil change has air

18 conditioning in it, or any garage.

19 MEMBER KRIEGER: The back bay doors, are

20 there back bay doors?

21 MR. REDA: Yes.

22 MEMBER KRIEGER: Do you have those open?

23 MR. REDA: Yes, those are open. I'm saying

24 we need a cross-breeze, all the air gets stuck in

25 there, doesn't get flushed out of there.



1 I mean, just for three months out of the

2 year, I don't think -- I mean, only two people object

3 to it. He is the owner of the Novi Automotive. He's

4 my competition. I can understand why he's against it.

5 The other person, I don't know. I have 131 petitions

6 here in the neighborhood that don't care one way or

7 another if we have them open or not.

8 That landscape, I mean, that's not really

9 going to shelter the front doors. We took them out

10 because all the trees died, they were making a mess and

11 an eyesore more than anything, so we took them down,

12 now it's all open and clean.

13 If we are not really looking -- coming out of

14 your house, looking into the bays, you're not going to

15 really see us.

16 I mean, if you are home and you're outside,

17 you're not going to see the bays, unless you go onto

18 the street and look in.

19 MEMBER KRIEGER: I guess, as an example, in

20 my subdivision, they built all the garage doors to the

21 side, so that people would keep their garage doors not

22 visible to the street. There are some -- I don't

23 know -- well, you can't do -- say that in a

24 subdivision, but I do have a general difficulty and

25 compassion that the workers would have to be in a



1 heated environment, but I can't see having bay doors

2 open facing Novi Road with people working. There might

3 be a safety issue there that I don't know about. I

4 agree that with the -- even though it's cleaner, that

5 the area with having some hedges or some kind of

6 landscaping, so I'm having -- I'm not in -- very much

7 in support of this. There must be other options to the

8 applicant. Thank you.

9 MR. REDA: The landscape thing --

10 MEMBER KRIEGER: I'm am finished, so --

11 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Member Sanghvi. I'm

12 sorry. Yeah, you can respond to questions that they

13 ask you, since you're finished with your presentation.

14 Member Skelcy?

15 MEMBER SKELCY: I have to agree with Member

16 Krieger. I think another alternative that they could

17 use, although this is not what we are here for, have

18 fans blowing in this facility to create a cross-breeze.

19 So I would not be in favor of this given that it faces

20 the Novi Road. Thank you.

21 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: During these three months,

22 do you always have the back doors open for your --

23 MR. REDA: Yes. The front bays, I just wan

24 them half way, they come up here. There is a lot of

25 breeze coming through and stuff, but it's hot air.



1 That's all I asking. We're in the process of doing the

2 shrubs and the landscaping in August, so that's in the

3 plans.

4 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: You're saying the opening

5 of the back doors during these creates --

6 MR. REDA: That doesn't do anything. That

7 just shoves more hot air in there. It's got nowhere to

8 go. It stays inside. Lifting the front doors up, you

9 get that breeze, it's way cooler. It's about 15

10 degrees cooler. It makes a difference. Everybody is

11 in there, they're hot and sweaty.

12 We do have fans in there, too, but it just

13 blows hot air around. It doesn't get no cool air to go

14 in there.

15 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Any other comments or

16 questions? Member Gedeon?

17 MEMBER GEDEON: I guess I can understand it

18 would ideal to have the front doors open all the time

19 for the comfort of the workers, but I mean, cars are

20 coming in and out. And I'm assuming you're not making

21 the cars back out. So I mean, the front doors do open

22 periodically, so it's not like it's an oven

23 continuously getting hotter, hotter and hotter all day

24 long, there is a release of heat.

25 In looking through the record, I mean it



1 wasn't -- it was clearly a very contentious effort --

2 contentious issue in the past. So I mean, I don't

3 think -- I think these issues were all expected. You

4 know, it seems like there was no surprises here. So

5 I'm not really in favor of supporting this variance.

6 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Anybody else? If not, I

7 will entertain a motion. Anybody? Member Ibe?

8 MEMBER IBE: Thank you, Mr. Chair. In Case

9 No. 11-024, 21470, The Oil Exchange, I move that the

10 applicant's request be denied for the following

11 reasons. That there are no unique circumstances,

12 physical conditions that will allow for the request to

13 be granted.

14 In a sense, the ordinance is very clear as to

15 what it requires, and the applicant is quite aware of

16 what is required of the ordinance. And also the

17 businesses in the area have all complied with the

18 ordinance. And the need here is somewhat self-created

19 because the applicant knew what they bargained for when

20 they agreed to be on the way, instead of maybe having

21 the doors to the side. And street compliance here was

22 necessary in order to conform with the ordinance, as

23 well as to be consistent with what is expected in the

24 general surrounding areas.

25 The requested variance, the denial of the



1 requested variance will not do -- would not bring upon

2 any injustice to the applicant. The applicant here has

3 not brought forth any economic reasons, which are

4 really not the issue here.

5 All the applicant stated was that it gets

6 warm, very hot in there. And also the applicant has

7 also attested that the doors do open up every now and

8 then to allow cars in and out, which means that it is

9 not shut all the time. As a result of this, I move

10 that we deny the applicant's request.


12 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Any further discussion?

13 Ms. Pawlowski, will you please call the roll.

14 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Gedeon?


16 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Chairman Ghannam?


18 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Ibe?


20 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Krieger?


22 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Sanghvi?


24 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Skelcy?




1 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Motion passes six to zero.

2 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Thank you, sir.

3 Are there any other matters, other than items

4 on the agenda? Anything from the city?

5 MS. KUDLA: No.

6 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Member Krieger?

7 MEMBER KRIEGER: On the minutes, if the print

8 could be bigger. This is too small.

9 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Anything else? Seeing

10 none, I will entertain a motion to adjourn.

11 MEMBER SANGHVI: So moved.

12 MEMBER IBE: Second.

13 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: All in favor say aye?

14 THE BOARD: Aye.

15 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Opposed? We are

16 adjourned.

17 (The meeting was adjourned at 9:00 p.m.)

18 ** ** **














5 I, JENNIFER L. WALL, Notary Public in and

6 for the County of Oakland, State of Michigan, do hereby

7 certify that the hearing above was taken before me on

8 Tuesday, July 12, 2011. The foregoing statements were duly

9 recorded by me stenographically and electronically, and were

10 reduced to typewritten form by computer-aided transcription

11 under my direction; and that this is, to the best of my

12 knowledge and belief, a true and accurate transcript of

13 said proceeding.

14 I further certify that I am not related to

15 any party or counsel, nor interested in the outcome of

16 this cause.




20 ______________________________

Jennifer L. Wall, CSR-4183

21 Notary Public, Oakland County, MI

My Commission Expires: 11-12-15