|View Agenda for this meeting
View Action Summary for this meeting
REGULAR MEETING - ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
Proceedings had and testimony taken in the matters of the ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS, at City of Novi, 45175 West Ten Mile Road, Novi, Michigan, Tuesday, July 10, 2007.
1 Novi, Michigan
2 Tuesday, July 10, 2007
3 7:30 p.m.
4 - - - - - -
6 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: By my watch and
7 the clock in the Council Chambers it's 7:30
8 so I will call to order the Tuesday,
9 July 10th, 2007 meeting of the Zoning Board
10 of Appeals for the City of Novi.
11 Ms. Working, would you lead the roll
12 call, please.
13 MS. WORKING: Member Bauer?
14 MEMBER BAUER: Present.
15 MS. WORKING: Member Sanghvi?
16 MEMBER SANGHVI: Here.
17 MS. WORKING: Member Gatt?
18 MEMBER GATT: Here.
19 MS. WORKING: Member Shroyer?
20 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Here.
21 MS. WORKING: Member Fischer?
22 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Present.
23 MS. WORKING: Mr. Canup?
24 MEMBER CANUP: Here.
1 MS. WORKING: Member Krieger?
2 MS. KRIEGER: Here.
3 MS. WORKING: And Member Wroebel?
4 MEMBER WROEBEL: Present.
5 MS. WORKING: All present.
6 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you. At
7 this time I will take a quick moment and
8 welcome our newest member, Wayne Wroebel.
9 So welcome aboard.
10 MEMBER WROEBEL: Thank you.
11 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: We will be
12 moving forward and I will make a further
13 other comments toward the end of the
14 meeting, but welcome. And we will move
15 forward as I mentioned.
16 At this time as our newest member,
17 Member Wroebel, would you please lead us in
18 the Pledge of Allegiance.
19 BOARD MEMBERS: I pledge allegiance to
20 the flag of the United States of America and
21 to the Republic for which it stands, one
22 nation under God indivisible with liberty
23 and justice for all.
24 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you. We do
1 have a quorum as this meeting is official
2 and it is now in session.
3 The Zoning Board of Appeals is a
4 Hearing Board empowered by the Novi City
5 Charter to hear appeals seeking variances
6 from the application of Novi Zoning
7 Ordinances. It takes a vote of at least
8 four Board members to approve a variance
9 request and a vote of the majority present
10 to deny a request.
11 The Board consist of seven regular
12 members and one alternate member. The
13 alternate member has the right to
14 participate in all Board discussions in the
15 hearings, but may not vote except in the
16 absence or extension of a regular Board
18 At this time I would ask the Vice
19 Chair to please review the public hearing
20 format and rules of conduct.
21 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Thank
22 you, Mr. Chair.
23 Please be sure to turn off all cell
24 phones and pagers throughout the meeting.
1 The Applicant or representative will
2 be asked to come forth, state their name and
3 address and be sworn in by our Secretary.
4 The Applicant then will be allowed
5 five minutes to address the Board and
6 present their case. An extension may be
7 granted at the discretion of the
9 Anyone in the audience who wishes to
10 address the Board regarding the case at hand
11 will be asked by the Chairperson to raise
12 their hands and be recognized.
13 Once recognized the audience members
14 will have three minutes to speak if an
15 individual or 10 minutes to speak if they
16 are representing a group.
17 Members of the audience will be
18 allowed to address the Board once unless
19 directly questioned by a Board Member or the
21 The Secretary will read the number of
22 public hearing notices mailed pertaining to
23 the current case. Objection and approval
24 responses will be entered into the record at
1 this time.
2 The Chair will ask for input from the
3 Community Development Department Liaison,
4 the Ordinance Enforcement Officers, Planning
5 Department and the City Attorney.
6 The Chair will turn the case over
7 to the Board for discussion, clarification
8 and entertain a Motion when appropriate.
9 Impromptu statements from the audience
10 during discussion by the Board will be
11 considered out of order.
12 A roll call vote will be taken to
13 approve or deny the Motion the table and the
14 next case will be called.
15 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you. At
16 this time a Motion for an approval of the
17 agenda. Is there any additions, deletions or
19 MEMBER BAUER: So moved.
20 MEMBER SANGHVI: Second.
21 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: All in favor say
23 BOARD MEMBERS: Aye.
24 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: The agenda has
1 been approved.
2 Next we will look for an approval of
3 the Minutes for May 8th, 2007.
4 MEMBER SANGHVI: So moved.
5 MEMBER BAUER: Second.
6 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: We have an
7 approval and a second -- or a Motion and
8 second for approval. All in favor say aye.
9 BOARD MEMBERS: Aye.
10 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Next is the
11 approval of the Minutes from June 5th, 2007.
12 MEMBER SANGHVI: So moved.
13 MEMBER BAUER: Second.
14 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: We have a Motion
15 and a second. All in favor say aye.
16 BOARD MEMBERS: Aye.
17 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Boy, this is
18 going fast.
19 All right. At this time we open it up
20 to public remarks. Is they anyone in the
21 audience that cares to make any comment or a
22 remark on any case other than the public
23 hearings that are hearings set for this
1 Seeing none, we will move on.
2 Before I introduce the first case I
3 did want to mention regarding the Minutes.
4 That the last several months the Minutes
5 have been very concise and easy to read, and
6 would like to comment and thank our court
7 reporters and Luzod Reporting Services for
8 the efforts and continuous improvements that
9 have been made. We all have been very
10 pleased with the Minutes, so thank you. It
11 makes our job easier.
13 Okay. First case, Case Number 07-040
14 filed by Bill Stanton of Toll Brothers,
15 Incorporated for Island Lakes located at
16 25622 Napier Road. This has been tabled from
17 the June 5th meeting.
18 Just to remind everyone, they are
19 requesting multiple sign variances for nine
20 oversized real estate signs and twelve
21 directional signs for the Island Lake
22 Community Development.
23 The property is zoned RA and located
24 south of Grand River and north of Ten Mile
1 and east of Napier Road and west of Wixom
3 The Applicant is requesting nine
4 oversized signs real estate variances,
5 twelve sign variances for directional
7 Is the Applicant present? Hello.
8 MR. EDDIE : Hello. My name is Steve
9 Eddie. My address --
10 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Steve, I would
11 like to remind you that you are still under
12 oath from the last meeting so you don't have
13 to be sworn in.
14 MR. EDDIE: Okay.
15 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: But we would you
16 like you to repeat your address.
17 MR. EDDIE: The address is 25622
18 Napier Road, Novi, Michigan.
19 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you.
20 Please state your case.
21 MR. EDDIE: I went through and
22 prioritized all the signs and hopefully you
23 were able to get through and look at them.
24 Going through there, we are willing to get
1 rid of the last six that are prioritized as
2 the bottom six. Those are ones that are in
3 sections that are almost sold out or we
4 didn't feel they were needed.
5 Most of the other signs, though, are
6 if you would have drove through the site
7 it's a large site. It's difficult to get
8 around sometimes for somebody who is new in
9 there and feel that the other signs are
10 needed just to help direct people around and
11 to show that we are still open there and
12 still have lots for sale.
13 So, we would like to keep the other
14 ones besides the last six.
15 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Okay. Noting
16 that this is a Public Hearing is there
17 anyone in the audience who cares to speak on
18 this matter?
19 Seeing none, I am going to close the
20 Public Hearing and open it up to the Board
21 for discussion.
22 Oh, that's right, we already did that
23 we are going to review it anyway. Can I
24 please have a summary of the notes and the
1 correspondence that were mailed.
2 MEMBER GATT: Yes. The official
3 comments were put into the Minutes as of
4 last meeting on June 5th. There were 556
5 notices mailed. Eleven objections and one
7 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you.
8 Before I turn it over to the Board, is there
9 any comments from the City?
10 MR. AMOLSCH: No comment, sir.
11 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you. Now
12 we will turn it over to the Board Members
13 for discussion.
14 I miss one meeting I have to start all
15 over again.
16 Member Bauer?
17 MEMBER BAUER: Did I hear you
18 correctly, all of the twelve you're not
19 asking for?
20 MR. EDDIE: No, if you look at the
21 priority numbers on the side, the priority
22 numbers, the last six priority numbers which
23 would be 16 through 21 are ones that we
24 don't feel we need in there anymore and we
1 can get rid of those.
2 MEMBER BAUER: Okay, thank you.
3 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Other comments?
4 Questions? Discussion?
5 Member Gatt?
6 MEMBER GATT: Well, I'm glad that they
7 have decided that some of these real estate
8 signs aren't necessary. Because that was my
9 main concern really.
10 The directional signs as I stated last
11 month, I got very confused in there even
12 with the directional signs, so I think that
13 they are necessary because this is such a
14 very big development.
15 Taking away priority numbers 20
16 through 16 in the real estate sign section
17 here and leaving the directional signs, I
18 would be in favor of that, of granting the
19 variances for the other requests based
20 solely on the fact that there would be a
21 time limitation.
22 I would definitely want to have a time
23 limitation on that or a lot sold limitation
24 on that as well.
1 That's all I have. I will open it up
2 for everyone else to further discuss.
3 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you,
4 Member Gatt.
5 Member Sanghvi?
6 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
7 I just wondered if we should deal with these
8 two separately or in one single discussion,
9 the real estate signs and directional signs?
10 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: To me it would
11 make sense to go through the signs
13 MEMBER SANGHVI: Because if you go
14 through the directional sign separately
15 there would probably be a lot of common
16 ground just how to go and where to go
17 regarding the directional sign because that
18 tell you just how to go and where to go.
19 Each are going to be permanent and they are
20 necessary because otherwise you get lost in
21 that place.
22 On the other hand, these are going to
23 be temporary signs and as Member Gatt just
24 mentioned, there is going to be a
1 stipulation about the time limitations. So,
2 if we can make two separate Motions and
3 getting over with directional signs first
4 and then go one by one on the real estate
5 signs perhaps (unintelligible). This is
6 just a thought.
7 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: The majority of
8 the directional signs are for models so they
9 wouldn't be permanent. Once every is sold
10 the models would be sold as well and they
11 would be coming down. Just as an aside
13 MEMBER SANGHVI: I drove around there
14 for one hour trying to find places and all
15 these models. Without these directional
16 signs I would had have a very hard time
17 finding any of these numbers that they have
18 mentioned. Once you put the directional
19 signs and you know they are available it's a
20 road map. It's a huge huge development
21 going on there with lots of very expensive
22 homes. And in the current economic climate
23 in Michigan, everybody is going to need as
24 much help as they can get to get the real
1 estate sold.
2 Considering all these issues, I think,
3 I just thought that maybe I would say my two
4 penny's worth about doing this differently
5 and discussing it separately so that we can
6 get all of these and get it done.
7 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: I like the
8 recommendation. Other comments from the
10 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: How large
11 is the development? I mean, we know big, we
12 have been through there, but do you know how
13 many acres? Miles?
14 MR. EDDIE: It's a little over
15 700 acres.
16 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: How many
18 MR. EDDIE: 762 right now.
19 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: It's a very
20 large development. I would tend to agree
21 with Member Gatt's comments.
22 Regarding the signs, the priorities
23 that you are getting rid of, five out of the
24 six are the actually the real estate signs,
1 am I correct in understanding?
2 MR. EDDIE: Correct.
3 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: So we are
4 down to four real estate signs and the rest
5 are the directional signs which are mainly
6 arrows that get you once you are in there
7 around the development. So with their
8 recommendation of getting rid of the last
9 priorities, I am willing to move forward
10 with a Motion to approve as they have
11 suggested. Thank you.
12 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Member Wroebel?
13 MEMBER WROEBEL: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
14 As far as the directional signs, are
15 these signs on undeveloped property? Or are
16 they on developed property? How are they
18 MR. EDDIE: They are all in common
19 areas. They are not in a sold home lot. So,
20 they would all be in a common area or an
21 non-developed area.
22 MEMBER WROEBEL: Does the Association
23 have the responsibility for the common areas
24 now? Or do you maintain that
2 MR. EDDIE: The Association would
3 have, they would have the responsibility for
4 the common areas.
5 MEMBER WROEBEL: So what you are
6 asking to do is to put signs on property
7 that you really do not control in essence?
8 MR. EDDIE: We, Toll Brothers would
9 still control most of it because we have
10 control over the master board, so we would
11 still control most of the common areas
12 obviously. There are homeowners on the
13 master board also, but we still control it.
14 MEMBER WROEBEL: But you own it
15 because it's undeveloped to that certain
16 level, correct?
17 MR. EDDIE: Yes.
18 MEMBER WROEBEL: So really you can do
19 what you want to do as far as placing and
20 getting approval of the Association?
21 MR. EDDIE: Yes.
22 MEMBER WROEBEL: I understand the need
23 for them, it is a very confusing area, but I
24 am looking from another perspective in other
1 subdivisions when people put up signs and
2 the developers have just put the signs up
3 where they wanted to on developed people's
4 property, on street corners and things
5 because of confusion, but they don't get the
6 Association approval. But in this case you
7 are the Association. They don't get the
8 homeowner's approval, that's what my concern
10 I understand the need for them. I
11 could probably go along with them if they
12 are on common areas only. And as far as a
13 time limit, what is the time limit? I am
14 unfamiliar with what they would be allowed
16 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: This is the
17 discussion of the Board.
18 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes.
19 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: We can put that
20 in a Motion.
21 MEMBER WROEBEL: Because another
22 issue, once a subdivision let's say gets
23 sold 80 percent or something, the
24 Association would take over, the real
1 association, not the developer association.
2 But because of the variances given, the
3 signs are there, there might be two lots
4 open in a development but the signs are
5 still there. And the residents who have
6 been in there have to look at them. I am
7 very concerned about things of that nature.
8 You know, them being there longer than they
9 really need to.
10 I understand that the developer would
11 like to put signs there probably until every
12 last house is sold, but it gets that point
13 in time where we have to look out for the
14 residents' benefit and not the developer's
15 benefit when we have a few lots left.
16 Thank you. That's all the comments I
18 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you,
19 Member Wroebel. Any other comments from the
21 I have a question, a bit of
22 confusion and maybe it was explained at the
23 last meeting that I was unable to attend.
24 But your very first priority, your number
1 one sign, in one bit of correspondence it
2 says its at Wixom Road and Ten Mile. And
3 another bit of correspondence it says its at
4 Wixom Road and Terra -- not Terra -- Drakes
5 Bay Drive. Which location is it? By the
6 picture it looks like it's the one at Ten
7 Mile and Wixom.
8 MR. EDDIE: It should be the one at
9 Ten Mile and Wixom. I am not sure where you
10 saw that?
11 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: There is another
12 one at Drakes Bay.
13 MR. EDDIE: I'm sorry, Wixom Road and
14 Drakes Bay is what it is.
15 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: So the sign
16 that's at Ten Mile and Wixom, maybe I need
17 to --
18 MR. AMOLSCH: Mr. Chairman, if I may.
19 Sign one is at Ten Mile and Wixom Road.
20 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Sign one is at
21 Ten Mile and Wixom?
22 MR. AMOLSCH: Yes, sir. Drakes Bay
23 was approved. The one behind, there are two
24 signs. One is right at the entrance and
1 there is one behind there and that's the one
2 at Drakes Bay.
3 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: And that one was
5 MR. AMOLSCH: One of them was. The
6 other one behind them was approved by the
7 Board before. It's an existing sign.
8 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Number one is
9 the one at the corner of Wixom Road and Ten
11 MR. AMOLSCH: Correct.
12 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Is that on
13 Island Lake property?
14 MR. EDDIE: The picture I have that I
15 prioritized as number one is the one that is
16 on Ten Mile and Terra Del Mar.
17 Our number one and number two
18 were the two entrances at Terra Del Mar and
19 then at Drakes Bay off of Wixom Road. That
20 was our number one and two that we would
21 like to have. Those are our main entrances
22 into the site and we would like to have a
23 sign on both of those.
24 And then our next two were the two
1 signs that are models that tell what the
2 models are and what's for sale there.
3 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Member Canup?
4 MEMBER CANUP: Are you saying that you
5 don't want a sign at Wixom and Ten Mile?
6 MR. EDDIE: That one I --
7 MEMBER CANUP: What I have in front of
8 me here says number one is Wixom and Ten
9 Mile. Number two is Drakes Bay Drive and
10 Chesapeake Drive.
11 MR. EDDIE: I'm not sure how the Wixom
12 and Ten Mile one got in number one there.
13 Maybe Robin can help me.
14 But last meeting number one was Wixom
15 Road and Drakes Bay Drive. I have the
16 agenda from last meeting and that's kind of
17 what I was going off of.
18 MS. WORKING: Mr. Chair, it was
19 brought to my attention by Mr. Amolsch that
20 the Wixom -- or the Drakes Bay Drive sign
21 was a previously approved sign that did not
22 require a variance. And it was the Wixom
23 Road and Ten Mile sign that did require a
1 Keep in mind that this is a case that
2 has a history and comes before the Board for
3 renewals and that's what these are, renewal
4 requests. So the applicant has an approval
5 that is still existing for the Drakes Bay
7 And when we do it ahead for
8 notifications, we did one for the Ten Mile
9 sign as well as the Drakes Bay sign because
10 we did one for every single one that was
11 requested or needed a variance.
12 So Mr. Amolsch pointed out that it's
13 the Wixom Road and Ten Mile sign that needs
14 a variance and the other sign is a
15 pre-existing and pre-approved sign.
16 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: So the two signs
17 that you were most critical about and wanted
18 to make sure you had are there?
19 MR. EDDIE: Well, one of them, I
20 believe is what you --
21 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: One at Terra Del
22 Mar and Ten?
23 MR. EDDIE: Yeah. The one at Drakes
24 Bay, the one at Drakes Bay and Wixom is
1 already approved, I guess.
2 The other one, the one that is on
3 tonight's agenda, Wixom Road and Ten Mile,
4 that wasn't in my list as one that I
5 prioritized, but that one is one that we
6 would like to keep. It's kind of on the
7 corner there where everything meets and we
8 would like to keep that one.
9 MEMBER CANUP: The question is, I
10 think I heard the question do you own that
12 MR. EDDIE: We do not.
13 MEMBER CANUP: How do you put a sign
14 on somebody else's property?
15 MR. EDDIE: We have permission from
17 MEMBER CANUP: You have written
19 MR. EDDIE: I don't have it tonight,
20 but I believe we do. I would have to check
21 on it, though.
22 MEMBER CANUP: I don't have a problem
23 with the sign. I have a problem with not
24 having some kind of written confirmation
1 that, yes, we approve the placement of that
3 I believe Landon owns that property.
4 MR. EDDIE: I don't know that for
6 MEMBER CANUP: You got a sign on
7 somebody's property and don't even know who
8 owns it?
9 MR. EDDIE: I did not put it there.
10 MEMBER CANUP: How many other signs
11 are on someone else's property that you
12 don't know?
13 MR. EDDIE: Everything else is on our
15 MEMBER CANUP: Promise?
16 MR. EDDIE: Promise.
17 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: So, for
18 tonight's meeting this was advertised, it
19 was advertised the corner of Ten Mile and
21 MS. WORKING: And the Drakes Bay Drive
22 location as well.
23 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Right. The
24 Drakes Bay we're okay on.
1 The Ten Mile and Wixom, we don't
2 know if they have approval. We don't have
3 anything in the packet showing that that has
4 been approved. So, we probably want to
5 include something in the Motion regarding
6 that pending approval or approval, et
7 cetera, we want to do that.
8 And then we can move on. That was the
9 only question I had was a little bit of
10 confusion. I did see that there were
11 several signs that I thought could be
12 combined. But those are primarily
13 directional and we can come up to those
15 I liked Member Sanghvi's suggestion of
16 doing the group separately. I would like to
17 see a Motion come forward currently on the
18 real estate signs first as opposed to the
19 directional signs if anybody is to the point
20 where perhaps they would make a
21 recommendation or a Motion.
22 Member Gatt?
23 MEMBER GATT: I have one more question
24 and then I will make a Motion. I just want
1 clarification now that we have confused
2 ourselves with these real estate signs.
3 Your priorities, again, can you name like
4 the names like Wixom Road and Ten Mile,
5 Drakes Bay Drive, Chesapeake Drive, the ones
6 that you are asking for?
7 MR. EDDIE: Yes. Our two most
8 important ones we feel are the two at the
9 entrances which would be Wixom Road and
10 Drakes Bay, Terra Del Mar and Ten Mile.
11 Those are the two main entrances to get
12 people into the site.
13 The next two would be at our models,
14 we have two models on the site. We would
15 like to leave those in there.
16 And then adding the fifth one in, the
17 fifth real state sign would be on the corner
18 of Ten Mile and Wixom which would be our
19 fifth priority to leave that one.
20 MEMBER GATT: Okay. And the Wixom
21 Road and Drakes Bay Drive is already
22 approved previously?
23 MR. AMOLSCH: Correct.
24 MEMBER GATT: In that case I move that
1 we grant variance in Case Number: 07-040
2 filed by Bill Stanton of Toll Brothers,
3 Incorporated at 25622 Napier Road. Because
4 the Petitioner has established a practical
5 difficulty I move that we grant a variance
6 in signs number 1, 11, 17 and 18 due to the
7 fact that the Petitioner has established
8 unique circumstances regarding the shape and
9 overall area of the property.
10 The Petitioner has established that
11 the proposed use will not be a detriment to
12 public safety and welfare. And the
13 Petitioner has established that the grant of
14 a variance will not impair the intent or
15 purpose of the Ordinance.
16 MEMBER BAUER: Second.
17 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Before we move
18 on, could you please clarify which number
19 one? Because one number one says Wixom Road
20 and Drakes Bay and the other number one says
21 Wixom Road --
22 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: We go off
23 tonight's agenda.
24 MS. WORKING: We go off of tonight's
2 VICE CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Correct.
3 The previously posted one is no longer
5 And the ones that he went off are on
6 tonight's agenda. That's what we would want
7 to stick with according to our attorney.
8 MEMBER GATT: Would you like me to
9 clarify which ones are which?
10 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: No, I think
11 we're okay with that. If we could --
12 MEMBER CANUP: I think your Motion
13 numbered the signs, the ones that are you
15 MEMBER GATT: Yes.
16 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Also we were
17 going to address the sign at Wixom and Ten
18 Mile in that Motion.
19 MEMBER GATT: Yes. Okay, as an
20 amendment I would like to state that the
21 sign number one would be granted solely on
22 the fact that the Petitioner will have
23 written approval by the property owner.
24 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: That's sign
1 number one.
2 MEMBER GATT: Okay, see now which sign
3 number one is right?
5 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Okay, I got the
6 wrong one.
7 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Get rid of
8 that one. Get rid of this one too.
9 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Okay. Wixom and
10 Ten Mile, okay. Please go.
11 MEMBER GATT: And I would also like to
12 state that these variances will be granted
13 for one year, 12 months.
14 MEMBER BAUER: And I approve it.
15 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: It's been
16 Motioned and seconded. Motion by Member
17 Gatt. Seconded by Member Bauer.
18 Is there any further discussion?
19 Member Fischer?
20 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: I think I
21 might be getting into semantics, but can we
22 make it contingent upon the Petitioner
23 giving to the Building Department the
24 written permission to have that Wixom and
1 Ten Mile --
2 MEMBER SANGHVI: Didn't you say that?
4 MEMBER GATT: Yes.
5 MEMBER SANGHVI: He said that.
6 MEMBER CANUP: Could we set a time
7 limit on that?
8 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Within 30
9 days --
10 MEMBER SANGHVI: One year, one year.
12 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Prior to
13 the next ZBA meeting.
14 MEMBER GATT: I amend my Motion to
15 state that approval by the property owner
16 for sign number one needs to be given to the
17 Building Department within 30 days.
18 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Very good.
19 MEMBER BAUER: So second.
20 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Are we all right
21 with the attorney?
22 Ms. Working, are you okay with the
23 Motion? All right, please read the roll.
24 MS. WORKING: Member Gatt?
1 MEMBER GATT: Yes.
2 MS. WORKING: Member Bauer?
3 MEMBER BAUER: Yes.
4 MS. WORKING: Member Wroebel?
5 MEMBER WROEBEL: Yes.
6 MS. WORKING: Member Canup?
7 MEMBER CANUP: Yes.
8 MS. WORKING: Vice Chair Fischer?
9 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Aye.
10 MS. WORKING: Chairman Shroyer?
11 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Yes.
12 MS. WORKING: Member Sanghvi?
13 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes.
14 MS. WORKING: Motion passes -- what is
15 that? One, two, three, four, five, six,
16 seven, 7-0. I'm not used to that.
17 MR. EDDIE: Thank you.
18 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you.
19 Now, let's open it up to the group
20 again to talk about directional signs.
21 Any comments? Seeing none --
22 MEMBER BAUER: Can we include that on
23 these directional signs that when the units
24 are sold that the signs come down within
1 that one year period?
2 MEMBER SANGHVI: I believe so, yes.
3 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: You are talking
4 about the signs in front of the unit on that
5 property, we can include anything like that
6 in the Motion if we care to.
7 One of the questions I have is
8 regarding -- I have got to find my right
9 notes here. The signs at the corner of
10 Drakes Bay and Terra Del Mar, there are
11 three different directional signs. Is there
12 any way that the three can be combined into
14 MR. EDDIE: We can combine two of them
15 for sure. One of them, they're coming from
16 different directions. Two from the one
17 direction and one from the other. So, the
18 two from the one direction we could combine
19 into one.
20 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Put a sign on
21 the back of the other one with an arrow.
22 MR. EDDIE: We probably could, sure.
23 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Here, again, I
24 am just trying to clean things up a little
1 bit. If the group is open for that I would
2 like to see that included in a Motion. And
3 that's all I have.
4 Any further comments? If not, I will
5 entertain a Motion on the directional signs.
6 Member Canup?
7 MEMBER CANUP: I would make a Motion
8 in dealing with the directional signs in
9 Case Number: 07-040 that we grant the
10 variances as requested with the deletion of
11 item number 16, second from the bottom.
12 Priority number 21. Grant it a one year
14 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: That includes
15 the combination of the three signs into one?
16 MEMBER CANUP: I said that.
17 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Okay.
18 MEMBER SANGHVI: Second.
19 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Did you want to
20 include that?
21 MEMBER CANUP: Yes, the three signs as
22 previously discussed be incorporated into
23 one sign.
24 Did you want to include Member Bauer's
1 recommendation as well?
2 MEMBER CANUP: Yes.
3 MS. WORKING: Mr. Chair, can we
4 stipulate the combination signs by other
5 sign number or priority number, please, for
7 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Certainly. I got
8 to figure out which ones are the directional
10 MEMBER BAUER: Five.
11 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Five, I believe
12 six and 13. Is that correct, Mr. Eddie?
13 MR. EDDIE: The three, the three we're
14 combining would be --
15 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Oh, 12, 13, 14.
16 MR. EDDIE: Yeah, 12 and 13 and I
17 believe the other one is five.
18 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: I was going by
19 priority. 12, 13, the other one was on lot
20 218. So, it should be number 12, number 13,
21 and 14.
22 MS. WORKING: So, we are going with
23 sign number 12, 13 and 14, priority numbers
24 6, 5 and 13?
1 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Correct.
2 MS. WORKING: Thank you.
3 MR. EDDIE: I believe it's 5, 12 and
5 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Sign number 5?
6 I show sign number 5 up on Timber Trail.
7 MEMBER CANUP: Your intent on the
8 Motion was to combine 12, 13, and 14; is
9 that correct?
10 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: The three
11 directional signs near the corner of Drakes
12 Bay and Terra Del Mar, would that cover it
13 without going into specific numbers?
14 MS. OZGA: It would be better to have
15 the number on there just so everybody is
16 clear on which one it is.
17 MEMBER CANUP: If the Motioner could
18 state that please.
19 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Mr. Chair,
20 if I could make a recommendation, maybe if
21 we -- the Petitioner stated that he wasn't
22 sure he could combine all three. Let's
23 combine the two that he knows that he can
24 combine and stick with combining those two
1 in order to meet our needs, his needs and
2 move along without as much confusion. That
3 is number 12 and 13.
4 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: I believe it is.
5 I am just waiting for confirmation from the
7 MR. EDDIE: Yes, we can. I think I am
8 getting confused with the prior numbers here
9 too. Yes, we can.
10 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Twelve is Drakes
11 Bay Drive and Terra Del Mar Drive. Thirteen
12 is Drakes Bay Drive south of Terra Del Mar
14 MR. EDDIE: Yep, 12 and 13.
15 MS. WORKING: Those would be the two
16 that will be combined?
17 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Yes.
18 MS. WORKING: They will be part of the
20 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Yes. Are you
21 okay with that, Member Sanghvi?
22 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes.
23 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Yes?
24 MS. OZGA: I wasn't sure if I heard as
1 part of the Motion the reasons, if it
2 wasn't, the Petitioner demonstrated a need
3 for the signs and that it wouldn't be
4 detrimental to public health and safety.
5 MEMBER CANUP: That's correct, I think
6 that was part of the Motion.
7 MS. OZGA: Thank you.
8 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: His exact words.
9 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Getting
10 intense there.
11 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Okay, we have a
12 Motion by Member Canup and a second by
13 Member Sanghvi.
14 Any further discussion? Please call
15 the roll.
16 MS. WORKING: Member Sanghvi second
18 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Yes.
19 MS. WORKING: Thank you. Member
21 MEMBER CANUP: Yes.
22 MS. WORKING: Member Sanghvi?
23 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes.
24 MS. WORKING: Member Bauer?
1 MEMBER BAUER: Yes.
2 MS. WORKING: Chairman Shroyer?
3 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Yes.
4 MS. WORKING: Vice Chair Fischer?
5 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Aye.
6 MS. WORKING: Member Gatt?
7 MR. GATT: Yes.
8 MS. WORKING: Member Wroebel?
9 MEMBER WROEBEL: Yes.
10 MS. WORKING: Motion passes 7-0.
11 MR. EDDIE: Thank you.
12 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you. And
13 your clarifications will be in the Minutes.
14 MR. EDDIE: All right.
15 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: And if by
16 chance we see you next year if you can make
17 the sign numbers and the priority numbers
18 the same. Thank you for working with us.
19 MR. EDDIE: Thank you.
21 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Or just
22 sell all the houses.
23 MS. WORKING: Right. Works for me.
1 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Moving on to
2 Case Number 07-045 filed by Mark Vesta of
3 Archiver's Photo Memory Store located 26160
4 Ingersol Drive.
5 The Applicant is requesting one 19.27
6 square foot wall sign variance for a 13
7 foot-8 inch x 6 foot-2 inch wall sign on the
8 southwest elevation of the Archiver's Photo
9 Memory Store to be located at the said
10 address in the Novi Town Center.
11 The property is zoned T-3 and
12 located south of 696 and west of Novi Road.
13 Our Ordinance Section 28-5 (2)b.1.(a)(i)
14 states: A business having a first floor
15 pedestrian entrance shall be allowed one and
16 one-fourth square feet of signage per linear
17 foot of contiguous public or private street
18 frontage up to a maximum of 65 square feet.
19 And the Applicant is requesting a
20 variance for an 84.27 square foot wall sign.
21 Is the Applicant present?
22 MR. VESTA: Yes.
23 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Please come
24 forward and state your name and address and
1 if you are not an attorney be sworn in by
2 our Secretary.
3 MR. VESTA: My name is Mark Vesta. Do
4 you want the business address or my personal
6 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Either is fine.
7 MR. VESTA: Okay. We will go 24225
8 Holy Oak Path, Lakeville, Minnesota, 55044.
9 MEMBER GATT: Please raise your right
10 hand. Do you swear to tell the truth
11 regarding Case: 07-045?
12 MR. VESTA: Yes.
13 MEMBER GATT: Thank you.
14 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Please state
15 your case.
16 MR. VESTA: Like it says here, we are
17 doing a store in Novi Town Center. The
18 previous tenant there is no longer there.
19 The space itself has a corner entrance.
20 And I think everybody has got
21 pictures, layouts and the like; is that
22 correct? Just so I'm
23 not --
24 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: If you would
1 please put it on the overhead for our
2 audience here.
3 MR. VESTA: I would love to but I
4 don't have a copy of it.
5 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: You can use
8 MR. VESTA: Is that better? Okay.
9 Again, this is the elevation that we would
10 like to see approved tonight. The reasons
11 for the application for the variance, there
12 is a, let's call it a lack of clear
13 visibility, lack of identification on the
14 building due to the configuration of the
15 roads. The fact that there is no pylon
16 sign. There is no -- again, just the
17 configuration of the roads versus that entry
19 Our experience is when we have
20 tenants, if there is a sign over an area
21 that is not a door, they sometimes can't
22 find it and it's sort of funny, but not
23 really. And so that's why we prefer to have
24 it over those doors for that reason.
1 Secondly, the previous tenant which I
2 believe was Futon and Mattress store had a
3 sign on this elevation here and, also the --
4 which I don't have, but the flip side over
5 on this side. We do have frontage on both
6 sides of the center as well.
7 Currently there are two other tenants
8 in that center. And if I could replace this
9 quickly just to.
10 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Sure.
11 MR. VESTA: Thank you. This is our
12 site right here facing, the sign will be
13 facing this direction here. And currently
14 there is an Athenian Coney Island Restaurant
15 right here and there is a Pita Cafe located
16 right here. Both of those are corner
17 entrances. Both of those have dual signage.
18 I do have pictures on my laptop. And
19 I'm guessing I probably can't hook into any
20 network here. I don't think.
21 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: I believe you
22 can. Are we set up for that?
23 MR. VESTA: I don't know.
24 MS. WORKING: (Unintelligible).
1 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Do you feel it's
2 necessary as part of your case?
3 MR. VESTA: I guess in a consistency
4 level, possibly, yeah, yeah. And then there
5 is a sporting goods location which is
6 located here which is also part of the Novi
7 Town Center Complex, a Boyne Sporting Goods
8 store that has a sign design that is very
9 similar to ours, that being a background
10 with channel letters as well.
11 The other thing is or lastly, I guess,
12 I'll say is we are a new retailer to the
13 Detroit market. We are a national chain. We
14 are in several markets. We are currently
15 putting two stores in the Detroit area. One
16 in Sterling Heights and one here in Novi.
17 And for us as for any retailer,
18 identification is key, logo is huge.
19 Branding is huge. And for us to not have
20 our logo, especially when we come into a new
21 market like this is detrimental to our
22 success, the center's success, eventually
23 the city, obviously with the money that's
24 generated through sales. Their ultimate
1 success as well.
2 So, we would prefer that this variance
3 be accepted. Again, you have copies of our
4 sign, both of what we want to do and then
5 there are some other pictures from other
6 locations showing the sign by day and also
7 by night.
8 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Okay.
9 MR. VESTA: I think that should take
10 care of it.
11 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you.
12 MR. VESTA: Would you like me to stay
13 up here?
14 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Stay close.
15 MR. VESTA: Sure.
16 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: This is a Public
17 Hearing, is there anyone in the audience
18 that cares to address? Please come forward,
19 state your name and address and be sworn in
20 by the Secretary if you are not an attorney.
21 MR. STEVER (ph): Good evening, my
22 name is Patrick Stever, 33650 Giftos Drive,
23 Clinton Township, Michigan. Just to let you
24 guys know who --
1 MEMBER GATT: Please raise your right
2 hand. Do you swear to tell the truth
3 regarding Case 07-045?
4 MR. STEVER: Yes, I do. Again, I am
5 the sign contractor involved working with
6 Archivers on this project. We will be the
7 installation contractor installing the sign
8 for them. So, I would just like to come up
9 here in support of that.
10 I would like to point out the fact
11 that from what we see just looking at this
12 from the outside is that we see definite
13 hardships, lack of identification due to the
14 configuration of this strip center.
15 We have been putting signs up and
16 taking signs down at this strip center for
17 years. I don't know what it is about this
18 strip center, if it's the configuration, but
19 there is definite issues with the way that
20 this thing sits back, how you can see not
21 just this space in particular, but other
22 spaces in there as well. There is really no
23 good angle to view this.
24 Again, as the Applicant stated, we are
1 not here asking for two signs. They're
2 asking for one sign. One sign to go over
3 their main entrance. That does have a lack
4 of identification to view that due to the
5 fact that it is angled.
6 Again, one sign versus two signs.
7 They are asking for a little bit more square
8 footage. I would just like to point out the
9 fact that the actual copy of the sign itself
10 is well within the square footage allowed.
11 As the Applicant stated this is more
12 of a logo issue which is the background of
13 the sign itself and that they box out the
14 whole area of this thing. But the copy and
15 everything has been scaled to a size that
16 would readable to the customers. And in
17 order to get that copied to that size and
18 keep that logo, it has to be that size.
19 They can scale it down maybe a little bit
20 more, but you are going to lose that
21 visibility with that.
22 And, again, if you look at it from a
23 standpoint of the actual signage that's on
24 this and look at it from a background panel
1 perspective, I don't feel that this causes
2 any detrimental effects to this strip
3 center, if anything it adds to it. To get
4 this tenant in there, give them the
5 visibility they need. Thank you.
6 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you, Mr.
8 Anyone else in the audience who care
9 to comment?
10 Seeing none, I will close the Public
11 Hearing and ask the Secretary to bring forth
12 the correspondence.
13 MEMBER GATT: Eighty-seven notices
14 were mailed. Zero approval. Zero
16 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you. Do
17 we have any comments from the City?
18 MR. AMOLSCH: No comment, sir.
19 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: All right. I
20 will turn it over for the Board for
22 Member Sanghvi?
23 MEMBER SANGHVI: Two questions. The
24 first question is for Mr. Amolsch. If there
1 are two separate signs what would be the
2 total of the square footage?
3 MR. AMOLSCH: The maximum square
4 footage for any wall sign is 65 square feet.
5 MEMBER SANGHVI: Each sign?
6 MR. AMOLSCH: We parallel the message
7 from left to right or top to bottom. Only
8 one sign.
9 MEMBER SANGHVI: Okay. One question
10 for you is. Is this sign going to be lit
12 MR. VESTA: Yes, sir.
13 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you.
14 MR. VESTA: As you can see in those
16 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you.
17 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you,
18 Member Sanghvi.
19 MEMBER SANGHVI: I'm not done.
20 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Oh, you're not
21 done. You said thank you I thought --
22 MEMBER SANGHVI: I meant thank you to
23 him for answering my question.
24 Looking at everything there, the
1 location of this particular corner, the way
2 the road is laid out there, it's not going
3 to be visible from Novi Road even if you put
4 it high up like that. (Unintelligible). I
5 really don't have any problem with combining
6 the square foot area you want and putting up
7 a sign. It looks very good. Thank you.
8 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Are you done?
9 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes.
10 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Okay. Thank you.
11 MEMBER SANGHVI: If you are listening
12 I am telling it to you.
13 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: All right.
14 Other comments? Member Gatt?
15 MEMBER GATT: I like it. I think that
16 of all the places we need a highly visible
17 and well constructed sign in Novi, the Novi
18 Town Center is the place for it to be. I
19 mean, even when you live in the city and you
20 drive around that thing going 35 miles an
21 hour you are going to miss some stuff.
22 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Is that the
23 speed limit in the Town Center? I don't
2 MEMBER GATT: Even when you know where
3 you're going you are going to miss that and
4 you got to swing around. So I like the fact
5 that it's going to be higher up and it's
6 going to be more than eye level for a
8 The signs on the white portion on the
9 little lower part of that is what creates
10 half of the problem. And as Member Sanghvi
11 said, they have the ability to put two signs
12 up. Combining them into one sign, putting
13 it a little bit higher up is a good idea.
14 It's a good use of the space. It's a corner
15 of the spot in the Town Center. I am all
16 for it. I actually really think that this
17 is a good idea.
18 And some people should listen and
19 maybe change some other things to. So, I
20 will wait for everyone else's comment, but I
21 like this idea. Thank you.
22 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Member Fischer?
23 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: I too think
24 the speed limit should be 35 in the Town
1 Center, but I guess that's just me.
2 Can you go through one more time what
3 they would be allowed on the two sides?
4 MR. AMOLSCH: Okay, there seems to be
5 a bit of confusion here. We do not allow two
7 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Okay, thank
9 MR. AMOLSCH: The signs, the
10 businesses that have two signs have received
11 variances from the City over the years.
12 Most of the signs in this center
13 are put on the sign band up around the
14 center in the corner towers are usually,
15 that's where we put the signs. But in no
16 case are they allowed to have two signs.
17 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: So, their
18 other option would be to take 65 and put it
19 on the front and then come and ask us if
20 they wanted a second piece, 65 whatever on
21 the other side?
22 MR. AMOLSCH: Correct.
23 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: So, they
24 wouldn't be allowed two? They wouldn't be
1 allowed two at 30?
2 MR. AMOLSCH: No.
3 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Two and a
5 MR. AMOLSCH: No, no. You can't try
6 and mix and match them. It has to be one
7 sign only. If they want another sign they
8 to come to you for approval.
9 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Okay. You
10 can't do 66 one foot signs either? Just
11 another bad joke, sorry.
12 Thank you for that clarification. I
13 too do not have an issue with this sign
14 because we all know that what would happen
15 is if we did not allow the sign that they
16 would put the one on the one side and they
17 would come and ask for the other. It's a
18 relatively large area that they are asking
19 for. How big is the area of the store?
20 MR. VESTA: The square footage of the
22 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Yes.
23 MR. VESTA: 6,000.
24 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: 6,000?
1 MR. VESTA: 6,003 if you want to be
3 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: I think
4 that it's aesthetically pleasing. I believe
5 it will help the Town Center which is in
6 dire need of help.
7 What I like best about it and why I
8 think it fits well in that area and why I
9 think it's practical difficulty there is
10 because putting it up there as you mentioned
11 will be with a little more visibility, but
12 it will also create an atmosphere of other
13 stores being able to landmark their stores
14 by saying, look for Archivers, we're just on
15 the side. And I think that would benefit
16 all the stores in the Town Center as well.
17 So, thank you, Mr. Chair for enduring
18 my bad jokes and my comments as well.
19 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you for
20 the comment.
21 Member Wroebel?
22 MEMBER WROEBEL: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
23 To staff, as far as other signs in Novi Town
24 Center do we have signs that are bigger
1 square footage up there now?
2 MR. AMOLSCH: Yes, there are some. I
3 don't have the specifics in front of me at
4 this time.
5 MEMBER WROEBEL: So this would not be
6 totally out of place?
7 MR. AMOLSCH: It would not. There are
8 larger signs there.
9 MEMBER WROEBEL: It makes sense what
10 all the other members have said. I would
11 support this.
12 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Other comments?
13 Before I turn it over to Member Gatt I would
14 like to ask a question or two.
15 The Sterling Heights sign what is the
16 size of it?
17 MR. STEVER: It's 110 square feet.
18 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Could you repeat
20 MR. VESTA: I'm sorry, it's 110?
21 MR. STEVER: Yeah, it is.
22 MR. VESTA: 110 square foot sign.
23 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Similar size
1 MR. VESTA: 6,000 square foot. Yeah, I
2 have the print in my bag. All of our stores
3 are either side of 6,000.
4 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Okay, thank you.
5 To the City, the size of the signs
6 that were up there previously?
7 MR. AMOLSCH: Yes, Mr. Chairman, as I
8 stated the previous Mattress & Futon store
9 received a variance for south elevation sign
10 of 30 square feet. Their permitted sign was
11 35 square feet.
12 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: So the two total
13 was 65?
14 MR. AMOLSCH: Ironically enough, yes.
15 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: I have no
16 objections. I think it's a good looking
17 sign. It's a perfect location for that. I
18 think it will support both the Town Center
19 and the store itself.
20 And at this time I will entertain a
22 Member Gatt?
23 MEMBER GATT: I move that we grant a
24 variance in Case Number 07-045 filed by Mark
1 Vesta of Archiver's Photo and Memory Store
2 located at 26160 Ingersol Drive due to the
3 fact that the Petitioner has established
4 practical difficulty.
5 The Petitioner has established unique
6 circumstances regarding the area and
7 location of the property, the subject
9 The Petitioner has established that
10 the proposed use will not be a detriment to
11 public safety and as a matter of fact will
12 be helpful in the public safety and welfare
13 of the area. The Petitioner has established
14 that the proposed use will not unreasonably
15 impair or diminish established property
16 values in the surrounding area and may, in
17 fact, improve them.
18 And the Petitioner has established
19 that the grant of the variance will not
20 impair the intent or purpose of the
22 MEMBER SANGHVI: Second.
23 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: It's been
24 Motioned and seconded.
1 Comment by Member Fischer?
2 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Actually,
3 an afterthought. I didn't have it in my
4 packet, Robin, but do we have the approval
5 of the Town Center? And, number two, if we
6 don't, do we need it?
7 MS. WORKING: You did not receive it
8 in your packet. And if the Town Center owns
9 the property, then you will receive it.
10 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Are we okay
11 with that or do we want to put another
12 Motion as dependent upon receiving approval
13 by the Town Center?
14 MS. OZGA: Either way it doesn't
15 matter. You could put in the Motion that if
16 permission from owner is needed such
17 permission will be obtained.
18 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: I just like
19 to keep the City out of those kind of
20 lawsuits. Whatever the Board feels.
21 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yeah, you should put
22 it contingent upon the permission from the
23 Town Center.
24 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: I would
1 make an amendment to make this approval
2 contingent upon approval from the Town
3 Center owners.
4 MEMBER GATT: I accept the amendment.
5 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes, I do. Thank
7 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Member Bauer?
8 MEMBER BAUER: You want to put in how
9 much these variances for the square footage,
11 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yeah, 19.27.
12 MEMBER GATT: I stated that we grant
13 their request for the variance which is
14 84.27 square feet.
15 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: That should
16 cover it.
17 Any further comments?
18 Seeing none? Please call the roll.
19 MS. WORKING: Member Gatt?
20 MEMBER GATT: Yes.
21 MS. WORKING: Member Sanghvi?
22 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes.
23 MS. WORKING: Member Wroebel?
24 MEMBER WROEBEL: Yes.
1 MS. WORKING: Chairman Shroyer?
2 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes.
3 MS. WORKING: Vice Chair Fischer?
4 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Aye.
5 MS. WORKING: Member Canup?
6 MEMBER CANUP: No.
7 MS. WORKING: Mr. Bauer?
8 MEMBER BAUER: Yes.
9 MS. WORKING: Motion passes 6-1.
10 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you.
11 MR. VESTA: Thank you very much.
13 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Moving on to the
14 last case for this evening. Case Number
15 07-046 filed by Crystal Halley at RE/MAX-100
16 located at 26870 Beck Road.
17 The Applicant is requesting one sign
18 variance for a 32-square foot ground sign to
19 be located at 26870 Beck Road. The building
20 already has an approved wall sign. The
21 property is zoned OS-1 and located west of
22 Beck Road and south of Grand River Avenue.
23 Our Ordinance Section 28-5(3) states:
24 No building or parcel of land shall be
1 allowed more than one sign permitted. And
2 as mentioned the Applicant is requesting to
3 have a ground sign in addition to an
4 existing wall sign.
5 Is the Applicant present?
6 MR. HALLEY: Yes.
7 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Please come
8 forward, please state your name and address
9 and if you are not an attorney be sworn in
10 by our Secretary.
11 MR. CUNNINGHAM: Do I have an attorney
12 you say?
13 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: If you are not
14 an attorney.
15 MR. CUNNINGHAM: Oh.
16 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: If you are an
17 attorney you don't have to be sworn in.
18 MR. CUNNINGHAM: No, I'm an attorney.
19 MEMBER GATT: Please state your name
20 and address.
21 MR. CUNNINGHAM: My name is Hartford
22 Cunningham and I live at 16111 South Hampton
23 in Livonia, Michigan.
24 MEMBER GATT: Please raise your right
1 hand. Do you swear to tell the truth
2 regarding Case Number 07-046?
3 MR. CUNNINGHAM: Yes, I do.
4 MEMBER GATT: Thank you.
5 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Please state
6 your case.
7 MR. CUNNINGHAM: I had to bring along
8 a few notes here because it's a little bit
9 complicated to me.
10 A couple of years ago Crystal Halley
11 who happens to be my daughter, she and I
12 owned a building, owned a property and she
13 told me that she wanted to build an office
14 building on that piece of property, and I
15 thought it would be perfect for doctors
16 since it's right across the street from
17 Providence Hospital.
18 But she wanted to build an office
19 building that would house independent
20 contractoring people in the real estate
21 business since she has been in the real
22 estate business for 20 years. So I said
23 okay, go do that. And therein is where we
24 ran into the problem.
1 We contacted an architect here in Novi
2 named Lee Mamola and he said the building,
3 our property is a narrow long piece of
4 property. It's 116 feet wide and 600 feet
5 long of which two-thirds of it is wetlands.
6 So we can only use the front third.
7 So, Mr. Mamola set the building near
8 or up closer to Beck Road. In doing that,
9 we were requested by people from the City of
10 Novi to move the building back to where the
11 wetlands were, and the man that requested it
12 was Tim Schmidt. And I have copies here of
13 a letter from Mr. Mamola to Mr. Schmidt that
14 we had difficulty finding, but I have 13
15 copies, if you would like to have them I
16 would be glad to give them to you.
17 Also, the man who has the property
18 south of us, Blair Bowman, we had a meeting
19 with Mr. Bowman and he asked us to move the
20 building back because he felt that it would
21 interfere with the visibility of his piece
22 of property to the south of us, which is the
23 Vision's Salon. So we moved the property
24 back, or the building back on the property.
1 Then the woodland people got involved.
2 And they said, well, for every tree that you
3 cut down, dead or alive you have to put four
4 trees at $400 a piece in place of it. If we
5 don't have enough room on that property to
6 put all those trees, the City said that,
7 well, we'll tell you where we can put them
8 in the City.
9 So, we put them on our piece of
10 property. As a result I think you have a
11 picture. Robin, did those pictures come to
12 you? That showed that the visibility of our
13 building, if you are travelling south on
14 Beck Road is extremely poor. If you are
15 traveling north on Beck Road it's extremely
16 poor. And if you are right across the
17 street from it, it's not the best either.
18 So, we were told by a member of the
19 Novi City Council that there are only two
20 businesses that can have two signs. One is
21 a restaurant that can have a ground sign and
22 a sign on the building. And the other was
23 an office building. Since we have 25
24 offices in our building, we feel that we are
1 an office building and meets what the
2 Council says that we have to meet to have
3 those signs.
4 So, that's the crux of the whole
5 thing. It will help the real estate
6 business. It will help people find our
7 building for our independent contractors.
8 And it will be a safety feature because at
9 the present time now people are driving from
10 Beck Road into our parking lot, making a U
11 turn and going back out.
12 Last week I found a woman in there who
13 had her, I would assume 16-year-old son
14 practicing parking in our parking lot. I
15 didn't like that. And it was before I put
16 up the sign. Have you people gone and seen
17 the sign that I have put up -- that we have
18 put up?
19 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Yes.
20 MR. CUNNINGHAM: Yeah, okay. That's
21 what we want to install. We got pictures of
22 it here. I think you all have pictures of
24 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Mr. Cunningham,
1 could you put the pictures on the overhead
2 there so our audience can see what we are
3 talking about?
4 MR. CUNNINGHAM: Sure, absolutely.
6 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: That's a sign
7 you want to install?
8 MR. CUNNINGHAM: Yes. Now, I can show
9 you a location in relation to the building
10 itself. That's the only spot coming from
11 the Providence Hospital that you can clearly
12 see the sign and our building because of all
13 the trees that we had to put up. The trees
14 are to the -- well, this isn't showing it.
15 The trees are to the left --
16 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: To the north of
17 the sign.
18 MR. CUNNINGHAM: Of the sign as you
19 are looking at it. And in a few years you
20 won't be able to see our building at all
21 probably. So we would not be here if it was
22 not for the fact that we were told that the
23 City Council passed -- I don't know if it's
24 a ruling or an Ordinance, a law, I'm not
1 familiar with those terms, but they did
2 explain to me that restaurants and office
3 buildings could have two signs. One on the
4 ground and one on the building. Okay.
5 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you.
6 MR. CUNNINGHAM: You're welcomed.
7 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: This is a Public
8 Hearing. Is there anyone in the audience
9 who cares to speak on this matter? If so,
10 please come forward.
11 Seeing none, I will close the Public
12 Hearing and ask the Secretary to read any
13 notices that may be received.
14 MEMBER GATT: Yes. There were 20
15 notices mailed. One approval. One
17 The approval is from Grand Beck
18 Venture Group on 46100 Grand River Avenue.
19 The comments are: We support their request
20 and would respectfully request that the City
21 of Novi approve their variance.
22 The objection is from Joanne Ward on
23 Eleven Mile Road. Her comments are: One
24 sign variance has also been given and a
1 ground sign should not be given approval.
2 The sign Ordinances does not work when
3 variances are always given.
4 These are all the correspondence.
5 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you.
6 Any comments from the City?
7 MR. AMOLSCH: No comment, sir.
8 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you. At
9 this time I will turn it over to the Board
10 for discussion.
11 Member Canup?
12 MEMBER CANUP: I think the last
13 picture that you showed us shot you in the
14 foot with me.
15 MR. CUNNINGHAM: I'm sorry, I didn't
16 hear you.
17 MEMBER CANUP: The last picture that
18 you showed us shot you in the foot with me
19 because we can see the building very clearly
20 from the road.
21 And another thing, the trees that are
22 in the way with the election of the
23 Petitioner placed those trees where he did
24 himself, where he could have taken those
1 trees out and placed them somewhere else in
2 the City under the Ordinance which has been
3 in effect for a long time.
4 Also, Mr. Amolsch, the sign that's
5 proposed, is it typical to measure a sign by
6 the extremities of the sign placement or the
7 sign rack, if you want to call it that?
8 MR. AMOLSCH: You can only measure the
9 actual sign here not the supporting
10 structure of the sign.
11 MR. CANUP: Okay. Anyway, with my
12 comments there, I would have a hard time
13 supporting this due to the fact that I think
14 it's a self made hardship and I don't really
15 see a need for it. If you drive by this and
16 looking at it that building is somewhat set
17 back, but it is also very noticeable and by
18 so looking at the last photo that we have
19 been shown.
20 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Other comments
21 from the Board?
22 Member Sanghvi?
23 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. I came
24 down from Grand River south on Beck Road and
1 I missed this property. I couldn't locate
2 it. Even though they had that sign although
3 Mr. Canup said it's quite identifiable, but
4 I couldn't identify that building or that
5 address driving south on Grand River and I
6 had to do go further up, do a U turn and
7 came back to find this and drove into the
8 parking lot to see.
9 Truly the way that they have sited the
10 current mockup sign, there is a tree right
11 north of it they have planted recently. As
12 soon as that tree grows up there is not
13 going to be any visibility from the north
14 side of this sign. And it will be only
15 visible from the south side.
16 I personally very strongly believe
17 that they need a business identification
18 sign. The current wall sign doesn't do the
19 job and hopefully this ground sign will do
20 it if not permanently, at least for a short
21 time. Thank you.
22 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you, Mr.
24 Member Fischer?
1 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Mr.
2 Amolsch, can you make any comments to the
3 Petitioners, comments regarding what he was
4 told and as far as the Ordinance, the new
5 Ordinance and the restaurants and office
7 MR. AMOLSCH: The Ordinance does allow
8 an actual sign for restaurant uses
9 freestanding restaurant uses. It also
10 allows an additional sign for a multi-story
11 home and multi-tenant building or a
12 multi-tenant building in a OS or OS-1, OS-T
13 zoning district. That's the only exceptions.
14 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Sir, is
15 RE/MAX the only tenant in your building or
16 are there other people?
17 MR. CUNNINGHAM: At the present time
18 it's just been opened. We are -- how can I
19 answer that? Yes, we have 17 independent
20 contracting people in the real estate
21 business there. And my daughter owns all of
22 it and is the broker for RE/MAX.
23 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: One other
24 question for the City. Robin, I am guessing
1 you had looked up about this parcel and
2 there is a comment one of the objections it
3 says that variance has already been given on
4 this property. Were you able to find
5 anything to that effect?
6 MS. WORKING: I wasn't able to find
7 anything to that effect. You know, I sent
8 out the public hearing letters and we don't
9 alter them in any way when they are
10 received. And sometimes people
11 misunderstand what they read. But I did not
12 find anything to support that.
13 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: What about
14 you, Alan, do you remember any variances?
15 MR. AMOLSCH: There has been no sign
16 variances. The wall sign for the building
17 meets the Ordinance.
18 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: The wall
19 sign meets the variance.
20 MR. AMOLSCH: Yes, sir.
21 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Regarding
22 the picture that you have shown us of the
24 MR. CUNNINGHAM: Yes, sir.
1 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: The gold
2 background, is that a requirement of the
3 corporation or is that something that is
4 chosen by the sign company or yourself?
5 MR. CUNNINGHAM: It was taken from a
6 sign that was developed by a sign company
7 that was built by a sign company in Denver,
8 Colorado. And we thought that it looked
9 very nice, although the brick that you see
10 on the sign was not brick in the sign that
11 we copied it from it was stone. But we
12 thought the brick would more evenly match
13 our building. And it's not the true color.
14 You can't get the true color of brick in a
15 painting on a sign.
16 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Agreed. I
17 don't see any objections -- I did the same
18 thing as Member Sanghvi. I was coming south
19 on Beck Road and I lived here long enough
20 and I couldn't think of where this business
21 was and I had to do a U turn right in the
22 middle of Beck Road right at Vision Salon,
23 actually once I saw it from behind.
24 So, I understand the hardship. Many
1 times when I am looking at these cases I
2 would rather have the trees than not have
3 the trees and be willing to grant some
4 relief when it comes to the City's
5 Ordinance. The only thing that did catch my
6 eye was the gold. I wasn't sure if it fit
7 in with the area around. I thought it might
8 be there just to attack other people's eyes.
9 Even moreso I would prefer maybe a
10 white background, but that's up for a Board
11 discussion. I thought I would throw that
12 out for you guys.
13 So, thank you, Mr. Chair.
14 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Member Wroebel?
15 MEMBER WROEBEL: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
16 To the Applicant, the brick on the
17 proposed sign is that going to be the same
18 brick as the building brick?
19 MR. CUNNINGHAM: Yes, sir.
20 MEMBER WROEBEL: Based on the design
21 of the building which is a low lying
22 building on a bad piece of property as we
23 all know, and throwing in the City
24 landscaping requirements which are quite
1 strict --
2 MR. CUNNINGHAM: Yes.
3 MEMBER WROEBEL: -- I really believe
4 that a visibility hardship exist for that
5 building as the other members have said they
6 missed it. I mean, I drive by there a lot
7 and it's hard to notice the building. So I
8 could easily support this request at this
10 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you Member
12 Any other comments? Member Gatt?
13 MEMBER GATT: I hope the City Council
14 Member that you talked to didn't have a name
15 that sounded like mine.
16 MR. CUNNINGHAM: I didn't say his
17 name, did I? I have his name.
18 MEMBER GATT: I have no problems with
19 this as well. I drove by it and did an
20 illegal U turn. It's a bad spot for a
21 building and in a couple years, I mean, you
22 could take down the sign on the wall because
23 you are not going to see it.
24 I think that it's definitely a
1 hardship and it's not self created, it's
2 created by the property itself. So I am all
3 for a Motion to approve that. Thank you.
4 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you,
5 Member Gatt.
6 I will put my comments on the record.
7 I agree from driving from the south heading
8 north that this building is seeable.
9 However, driving from the north to the south
10 you can't see it at all. So I pulled in,
11 practiced parking a little bit and then
12 drove out.
13 MR. CUNNINGHAM: Did you have your
14 daughter with you?
15 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Okay. The trees
16 that were planted, Member Canup is right.
17 That was your choice as to where the trees
18 were planted on the property or they didn't
19 have to be planted at all, they could have
20 been planted elsewhere within the City.
21 However, those trees are only two or three
22 inch trees in diameter currently and when
23 they grow as long as they are trimmed
24 properly underneath the canopy would be
1 higher than the sign anyway.
2 The heavy shrubbery and heavy trees to
3 the north, directly to the north of the
4 property is what creates the problem.
5 MR. CUNNINGHAM: That's a wetland,
7 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Right, and
8 that's not going to be disturbed.
9 MR. CUNNINGHAM: No.
10 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: So, the
11 woodlands that you mentioned during the
12 Planning Commission portion or whoever it
13 was that you talked to is very much into
14 effect here and there is not much that can
15 be done about that.
16 So bottom line, I am in agreement that
17 a monument sign would be preferable. And
18 the reason I say preferable is that I could
19 be convinced to allow that sign if the
20 building sign is removed. I don't see a
21 need to have both. So those are my
23 Any further discussion from the Board?
24 Member Canup?
1 MEMBER CANUP: I would agree. I think
2 that's an excellent way to solve the
4 MR. CUNNINGHAM: You know.
5 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Do you have a
7 MR. CUNNINGHAM: Yeah. I'm sorry, I
8 don't agree. That sign cost a lot of money
9 and it is the attraction, makes the building
10 look good after we get on the parking lot.
11 If you are parking there it makes the
12 building look good. And I don't see why
13 that sign should create a problem for
14 anybody going by or anything like that.
15 It's a small sign, it's a lit sign.
16 This sign also will be lit but from the
17 ground not from the inside. And I would
18 like to keep that sign.
19 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Okay, that's
20 your comments.
21 Any other comments from the Board? If
22 not, I will entertain a Motion.
23 Member Canup?
24 MEMBER CANUP: I have one question.
1 Al, through the Building Department, if they
2 were to come in and just asked for a ground
3 sign with no wall sign what would they be
5 MR. AMOLSCH: This sign meets the code
6 as far as size, setback and height
7 regulation and would not need a variance on
8 the sign by itself.
9 MEMBER CANUP: I would make a Motion
10 that in Case Number 07-046 we grant the
11 variance as stated due to the unique
12 configuration of the building in
13 relationship of trees, placement of the
14 building on the property. The difficulty in
15 viewing the building when traveling from
16 north to south.
17 Again, I would grant a variance based
18 on the fact that the present sign located on
19 the face of the building would be removed
20 and that the ground sign as proposed be
21 placed in the position as shown on the
23 MEMBER WROEBEL: Second.
24 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: We have a Motion
1 and a second.
2 Further discussion from the Board?
3 Member Fischer?
4 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: If we were
5 going to do that why would we be approving
6 the variance? Alan just said that he
7 doesn't need a variance. If they would deny
8 it he would then take it down himself and
9 apply for a permit and put the ground sign
10 up. Why would we be granting a variance?
11 MR. AMOLSCH: That's one way you can
12 do it.
13 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: I'm not
14 saying that's the way I am looking to go.
15 MR. AMOLSCH: If they remove the wall
16 sign he can walk in the next day and get
17 the permit for the ground sign.
18 MEMBER CANUP: Would he be able to
19 have a ground sign the size that he is
21 MR. AMOLSCH: Yes.
22 MEMBER CANUP: Or bigger?
23 MR. AMOLSCH: Not bigger, the size
24 that he is requesting.
1 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Does our City
2 attorney have a comment?
3 MS. OZGA: Since he doesn't need a
4 variance for this sign if he removed the
5 other one then there would be no reason to
6 grant a variance conditioning the other one
7 be removed.
8 MEMBER CANUP: Would it be proper then
9 that I as a Motion maker withdraw the Motion
10 and restate the Motion?
11 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Well, yes, if
12 there is no -- yes, you can withdraw the
14 MEMBER CANUP: I would like to
15 withdraw the Motion.
16 MEMBER WROEBEL: I would second.
17 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: The Motion has
18 been withdrawn.
19 MEMBER CANUP: I would like to make
20 another Motion that in the same case, Case
21 Number: 07-046 that we deny the variance as
22 requested due to the fact that the
23 Petitioner can without variance install a
24 ground sign as shown and presented to this
2 MEMBER WROEBEL: Second.
3 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: We have a Motion
4 and a second.
5 Further discussion? Member Gatt?
6 MEMBER GATT: I think that's going to
7 cost an awful lot of money.
8 MEMBER CANUP: He doesn't have to put
9 in the ground sign.
10 MEMBER GATT: I think he needs a
11 ground sign.
12 MEMBER CANUP: What? He should have
13 thought of that when he put up all those
15 MEMBER GATT: That's the City of Novi
17 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: We're
18 having back and forth discussion, Mr. Chair.
19 Either there is someone having the floor or
21 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Member Gatt has
22 the floor.
23 MEMBER GATT: I think that this is
24 unnecessary to deny this person's request.
1 I don't understand why we would deny the
2 request when previous statements said that
3 it's not going to be a detriment. It's not
4 going to be a detriment to the Ordinance
5 itself to have both signs.
6 This is going to be a public safety
7 issue. This is going to not have any affect
8 on the actual variance. The -- what am I --
9 the intent of the variance that was already
10 in place.
11 I think that it's going to basically
12 be a whole lot of waste of money for a
13 business that if I gathered correctly is
14 having some trouble filling the space.
15 I mean, I don't know much it's going
16 to cost to take it down, but as a business
17 owner I wouldn't want to do it. And I am
18 just not sure. I am not in favor of that.
19 But I will see what everybody else has to
21 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
22 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Member Sanghvi?
23 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
24 I think we need to be proactive rather
1 going around the way we are doing. Most
2 likely the wall sign is going to be
3 absolutely obsolete in a couple of years
4 time once those trees start growing and
5 maturing. But that is his option whether he
6 wants to keep it or not.
7 He is here for a variance for a ground
8 sign and I personally have no objection to
9 granting the ground sign because he needs it
10 for business identification.
11 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: I will go ahead
12 and comment as well. Since the wetlands is
13 going to be a permanent obstruction to that
14 building. No matter what's on that building
15 it's not going to be seen from the north and
16 it's going to be very limited sight from
17 directly across the street. The only place
18 it's going to be seen at all is from the
20 And so I will go on record as stating
21 that I am in favor of the monument sign and
22 I would not support the Motion to remove or
23 to deny the request to force the Applicant
24 to take down the wall sign.
1 Any other comments?
2 There is a Motion on the floor and
3 it's been seconded. Please call the roll.
4 MS. WORKING: Motion is to deny?
5 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Correct.
6 MS. WORKING: Member Canup?
7 MEMBER CANUP: Yes.
8 MS. WORKING: Member Wroebel?
9 MEMBER WROEBEL: Yes.
10 MS. WORKING: Member Bauer?
11 MEMBER BAUER: No.
12 MS. WORKING: Vice Chair Fischer?
13 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: No.
14 MS. WORKING: Member Sanghvi?
15 MEMBER SANGHVI: No.
16 MS. WORKING: Chairman Shroyer?
17 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: No.
18 MS. WORKING: Member Gatt?
19 MEMBER GATT: No.
20 MS. WORKING: Motion to deny fails
22 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you.
23 Entertain another Motion? Member
1 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Mr. Chair,
2 may I make a Motion that in Case Number:
3 07-046 filed by Crystal Halley of RE/MAX
4 located at 26870 Beck Road that we approve
5 the Petitioner's request for a variance
6 based on the practical difficulty shown by
7 the Petitioner and the Board given that the
8 property is low lying. Given the speeds of
9 Beck Road, the intent of the Ordinance is
10 not impaired by granting this variance and
11 due to the safety and welfare of the
12 residents of Novi, those are the findings.
13 And might I also add that this request
14 is for the use that has been demonstrated by
15 this Petitioner as an independent contractor
16 occupied building. Meaning should the use
17 change, I would like to see this sign back
18 before us so the variance is not running for
19 land, it runs with the use of the building.
20 MEMBER BAUER: Same.
21 MS. OZGA: You're saying, through the
22 Chair, you are saying that it runs with the
24 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Should the
1 use of the building change they do not have
2 the variance to continue with the land.
3 MEMBER SANGHVI: So, basically through
4 the business.
5 MS. OZGA: Right. I wouldn't
6 recommend at this point putting that
7 stipulation. And if its turned into
8 something that's allowed they would already
9 have a sign there that's an allowed use.
10 But under these circumstances you probably
11 wouldn't want to put in this stipulation.
12 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Things that
13 are -- they would have to become a
14 restaurant or they would have to build a
15 multi-level building on top of it.
16 MR. AMOLSCH: That's correct.
17 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: So I don't
18 think they are going to do that.
19 According to the City I will withdraw
20 that last condition.
21 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Is there a way
22 that we can have a new business come back in
23 front of the Board for discussion about the
24 wall sign if this is approved to add a
1 monument sign?
2 We are trying to allow the Applicant
3 not to go through the added expense to
4 remove the wall sign. But if a new
5 business comes in there, they are going to
6 have to have that sign removed and a new
7 sign put up.
8 MEMBER SANGHVI: (Unintelligible).
9 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER:
11 MS. OZGA: Well, right now, through
12 the Chair, you are putting -- the factors
13 that you have raised are factors that relate
14 to the land and where the building is. The
15 building will always be where it is. And
16 some of the issues that you have raised will
17 always be there.
18 But if you want to put a stipulation
19 in saying based on what this Petitioner has
20 raised and it will -- based on the
21 circumstances that were raised by this
22 Petitioner, that would be fine. But I would
23 just recommend leaving it as a straight
24 grant at this time.
1 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you. It's
2 up to the Motion maker and seconder if you
3 want to leave it as is or change the Motion?
4 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: I will
5 withdraw the last condition regarding the
6 use of the building and I will end it with
7 the findings per our City Attorney.
8 MEMBER BAUER: So seconded.
9 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Member Gatt?
10 MEMBER GATT: Just as a comment. The
11 trees aren't going anywhere, I mean, if a
12 new person comes in there they are going to
13 have the same problem. I think it would be
14 unnecessary for them to put a wall sign up.
15 That wouldn't solve the problem anyway or it
16 would be useless. So, that's my comment.
17 Thank you.
18 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: We have a Motion
19 by Member Fischer and seconded by Member
21 Please read the roll.
22 MS. WORKING: Vice-Chairperson
24 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Aye.
1 MS. WORKING: Member Bauer?
2 MEMBER BAUER: Yes.
3 MS. WORKING: Chairman Shroyer?
4 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Yes.
5 MS. WORKING: Member Sanghvi?
6 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes.
7 MS. WORKING: Member Gatt?
8 MEMBER GATT: Yes.
9 MS. WORKING: Member Canup?
10 MEMBER CANUP: No.
11 MS. WORKING: Member Wroebel?
12 MEMBER WROEBEL: No.
13 MS. WORKING: Motion passes 5-2.
14 MR. CUNNINGHAM: I think I'm done,
15 thank you.
16 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: All right,
17 moving along to Other Matters. The first
18 thing on Other Matters is the words
20 MS. WORKING: Members of the Board it
21 is with great pleasure that I would like to
22 introduce to you the new director of the
23 Community Development Department, Mr.
24 Stephen Rumple.
1 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Good evening.
2 MR. RUMPLE: Good evening. That's
3 quite an introduction. Thank you very much.
4 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: It sounded
5 like the State of the Union there for a
7 MR. RUMPLE: Yeah, I know. Now for
8 the followup. Again, good evening. It's my
9 pleasure to finally get a chance to meet
10 you. I have been on board here with the City
11 for about two months now.
12 And I think this is the last group I
13 finally got the chance to get in front of
14 and speak to. I just want to say that the
15 Community Development Department is
16 committed to continued support of the ZBA.
17 In addition to the 30 regular members we
18 have here tonight, the Department also has
19 an engineer. We have got planners. We have
20 got a landscape architect on staff. Of
21 course, the Building official and myself.
22 So as we go along if you see any
23 additional needs or you made need any
24 additional support, please contact me
1 directly, I would be more than happy to try
2 and address those needs.
3 Over the years in my career I have had
4 substantial experience working with Zoning
5 Boards of Appeals. I have written close to
6 1,000 staff review letters in my previous
7 career as a planner.
8 I also sat on the Zoning Board of
9 Appeals in another community where I lived.
10 The Zoning of Appeals is kind of near and
11 dear to my heart of all the commissions and
12 councils and committees that I get a chance
13 to work with. So, again, thank you for your
14 time tonight and I am looking forward to
15 meeting each you personally.
16 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you.
17 MEMBER BAUER: Welcome aboard.
18 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Thank you.
19 Welcome aboard.
20 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Any other
21 introductions? No? Thank you.
22 The second item on the Other Matters
23 is the Chair's Comments. Which is me. And
24 the comments I'd
1 like to mention, we have some sadness and
2 some joy this evening.
3 The joy portion is we have a new
4 member as was mentioned at the beginning of
5 the meeting, Wayne Wroebel has joined as our
6 7th member. He also serves on the Planning
7 Commission, so his role is dual. He has a
8 lot of homework to do, but I am sure he will
9 do it and come prepared every meeting as he
10 did this evening.
11 MEMBER BAUER: Double pay.
12 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Twice the pay.
13 MEMBER WROEBEL: All the hours I want
14 to work.
15 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: So, once again,
16 welcome aboard and we look for many years of
17 continued service.
18 MEMBER WROEBEL: Thank you.
19 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: And the sad side
20 of it is, this is the last meeting for Bobby
21 Gatt. The secretary to our ZBA here. He has
22 elected to move on and out or up or over or
23 move someplace. He is no longer going to
24 be here --
1 MEMBER BAUER: It's about time.
2 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: But I know I can
3 speak for the entire Board in thanking you
4 for your service. And we truly appreciated
5 your input and the comments that you brought
6 forth and enjoyed your presence on the
8 MEMBER GATT: Well, thank you very
9 much. If I can say so, it has been a great
10 pleasure to work with you guys in the short
11 time I was on the Board. It was a very
12 tough decision and one that I did not make
13 lightly to resign my post. New careers led
14 me to much further away path. And it was
15 something that I did not tread lightly when
16 I made it. So, I really have enjoyed myself
17 and hopefully in the short time or remaining
18 years to come I will return back to the city
19 that I love very much and grew up in and I
20 will be returning to the Zoning Board
22 MEMBER BAUER: Congratulations to you.
23 MEMBER GATT: Thank you.
24 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Third item on
1 the agenda is Secretary election since we
2 are losing the Secretary with this being his
3 last meeting.
4 And what I want to do at this point is
5 to open it up to the Board for their
6 feedback as to how we want to handle this.
7 Obviously we will be advertising for another
8 member to replace Bobby. And his term, I
9 believe, ran until January.
10 MEMBER GATT: Of '08.
11 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: So, the next
12 six months, five months, we will be short a
14 MEMBER GATT: It's actually four.
15 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Four months.
16 MEMBER GATT: January 1.
17 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: January 1, so
18 four months. So, we can either select
19 someone to replace him at this time. We can
20 wait until after the interviews take place
21 and we will be back once again with a full
22 Board or we can entertain other options such
23 as the Vice Chair taking over the
24 Secretary's duties on the short term.
1 So, let me open it up to the Board and
2 get some comments.
3 Member Sanghvi?
4 MEMBER SANGHVI: I suggest we have a
5 replacement as he goes rather than wait for
6 a new appointment and a new member to come
7 aboard. And I would really like to have one
8 of the senior most member here back in the
9 saddle, so-to-speak, as the Secretary if he
10 has no objection.
11 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Are you talking
12 about me?
13 MEMBER SANGHVI: No, I am talking
14 about Mr. Bauer. Thank you. You are not
15 the senior most member of the Board.
16 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: I just look it.
17 MEMBER BAUER: You got your own
19 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Mr. Chair,
20 I would echo his comments, we are not likely
21 to know when we'll get another member and I
22 think that opening up for that nomination I
23 would be glad to second that nomination if
24 it was a nomination.
1 MEMBER SANGHVI: It is a nomination.
2 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Perfect,
3 then I second it.
4 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Member Bauer,
5 would you be willing to serve --
6 MEMBER BAUER: I third it.
7 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: That's a yes
8 that he would be willing to serve. Can I
9 assume that we are going to elect him by
10 acclamation? All right, welcome aboard.
11 MEMBER BAUER: Thank you, sir.
12 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: And Bobby will
13 give you your duties.
14 MEMBER BAUER: (Unintelligible).
15 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: We have a
16 Secretary beginning with the August
17 meeting. Thank you.
18 At this point we are looking for the
19 status of our Subcommittee. Can I have the
20 Chair of that Subcommittee to respond.
21 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Yes. As
22 you are well aware, there have been a lot of
23 personal things going on in my life. I have
24 not been able to get in touch at this time
1 with the other members, but I do have, and
2 in speaking with the Chair, I do have some
3 plans for exactly what we are going to do.
4 And still will expedite things, so by the
5 end of this week we will have a date for our
6 very first meeting. And I think a very good
8 So, my apologies. It's just a lot
9 going on in the last week as far as personal
10 life and work, but I will still look forward
11 to carrying out the mission that was handed
12 to us.
13 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you. And
14 the last item under Other Matters is Term
15 Expirations. Ms. Working, did you want to
16 comment on that?
17 MS. WORKING: I actually have no
18 comment. I put that on there at your
19 request, Mr. Chair.
20 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: What I had asked
21 the City to do and it was very short notice,
22 meaning I asked yesterday. So they will
23 have it prepared for us for the next
24 meeting. I asked Robin to put together of
1 an updated list of members with our names,
2 our phone numbers and our e-mail addresses
3 as well as the attorney's phone numbers as
5 And on the back side an Org chart that
6 would indicate our new representative with
7 the City and the people that work for him
8 and their contact information as well, phone
9 numbers and e-mail address, et cetera.
10 Also on the front side with the Board
11 Members I asked her to indicate the
12 expiration date of everybody's appointment,
13 that way on one sheet of paper we will have
14 all the information on hand. And Ms.
15 Working did indicate to me that she thought
16 she could have that preached for our August
17 meeting. So, we look forward to having that
18 continuous improvement. And continue to go
20 With that, I will entertain a Motion
21 for adjournment.
22 MEMBER SANGHVI: So moved.
23 MEMBER BAUER: Second.
24 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: All in favor say
2 BOARD MEMBERS: Aye.
3 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: The meeting has
4 been closed.
5 (The meeting was adjourned at
6 9:05 p.m.)
1 C E R T I F I C A T E
4 I, Mona L. Talton, do hereby certify
5 that I have recorded stenographically the
6 proceedings had and testimony taken in the
7 above-entitled matter at the time and place
8 hereinbefore set forth, and I do further
9 certify that the foregoing transcript,
10 consisting of (86) typewritten pages, is a
11 true and correct transcript of my said
12 stenographic notes.
19 Mona L. Talton,
20 Certified Shorthand Reporter
22 August 2, 2007