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REGULAR MEETING - ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
Proceedings had and testimony taken in the matters of the ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS, at City of Novi, 45175 West Ten Mile Road, Novi, Michigan, Tuesday, November 1, 2005.
1 Novi, Michigan
2 Tuesday, November 1, 2005
3 At 7:30
4 - - - - - -
5 MEMBER FISCHER: All right.
6 I would like to call to order
7 the November, 2005 Zoning Board of Appeals
8 meeting for the City of Novi.
9 Ms. Backus, will you please
10 call the roll.
11 MS. BACKUS: Member Bauer?
12 MEMBER BAUER: Present.
13 MS. BACKUS: Member Canup?
14 MEMBER CANUP: Here.
15 MS. BACKUS: Member Fischer?
16 MEMBER FISCHER: Present.
17 MS. BACKUS: Member Gronachan?
18 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Yes.
19 MS. BACKUS: Member Krieger?
20 MEMBER KRIEGER: Here.
21 MS. BACKUS: And Member Sanghvi?
22 MEMBER SANGHVI: Here.
23 MS. BACKUS: All present.
24 MEMBER FISCHER: Okay.
1 There are some rules of
2 conduct listed on the agenda. I would like
3 to bring attention to them. Please do turn
4 off all cell phones and pagers. And
5 individuals will have five minutes to
6 address the Board; groups will have ten
8 And also another rule, no
9 making fun of my orange tie tonight. It's
10 for Halloween.
11 The Zoning Board of Appeals is
12 a Hearing Board empowered by the Novi City
13 Charter, to hear appeals seeking variances
14 from the application of the Novi Zoning
15 Ordinance. It takes a vote of at least four
16 members to approve a variance request; and a
17 vote of the majority present to deny a
19 We do have a full Board
20 tonight, so any decision made will be final.
21 Are there any charges to the
23 Mr. Saven?
24 MR. SAVEN: Mr. Chair, I
1 received a letter from -- regarding Case 05-044
2 four requesting an extension until January 31st
3 of 2006. And it is for reasons that there
4 architect is out of town.
5 We'd like to put it on other
6 matters for tonight, please.
7 MEMBER FISCHER: Okay. We can
8 put that -- we'll put that before the election of
9 the chair -- vice chair.
10 Are there any other changes to
11 the agenda?
12 Seeing none, I'll entertain a
13 Motion to approve?
14 MEMBER SANGHVI: So moved.
15 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Second.
16 MEMBER FISCHER: All in favor
17 say aye?
18 BOARD MEMBERS: Aye.
19 MEMBER FISCHER: Any opposed?
20 Seeing none, we have an agenda
21 for tonight's meeting.
22 We did receive in our packet
23 the Minutes from October, 2005.
24 Are there any changes to the
2 Seeing none, I'll entertain a
3 Motion to approve those?
4 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Second -- so
6 MEMBER FISCHER: There's a
7 Motion and a second.
8 All in favor say aye?
9 BOARD MEMBERS: Aye.
10 MEMBER FISCHER: Any opposed?
11 Seeing none, the Minutes from
12 October are approved.
13 That takes us to the Public
14 Remarks section of our meeting tonight. And
15 this is the public remarks portion of the
16 meeting. All comments relating to case on
17 the agenda should be held until that case is
19 However, if anyone wishes to
20 address the Board regarding a matter that is
21 not on tonight's agenda, please come
23 Is there anyone out there?
24 Seeing none, we will close the
1 Public Remarks section of the meeting and
2 move to our first case.
5 Which is Case Number: 05-087
6 filed by Harmon Sign for several addresses
7 on Grand River. They are requesting two
8 sign variances to be installed at the
9 parcels of land on Grand River.
10 Is that applicant present
12 Please come forward.
13 The applicant is requesting
14 permission to erect two ground signs
15 measuring six feet by five feet; with a
16 total of 30 square feet; and three feet by
17 six inches by three feet six inches; for a
18 total of seven feet.
19 If you guys could please raise
20 your hands and be sworn in by our secretary.
21 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Do you swear
22 or affirm that the information you're about to
23 give in the matter before you is the truth?
24 MR. O'SHAY: Yes.
1 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Would you
2 please state your names and addresses for our
3 secretary -- or our recording secretary?
4 MR. O'SHAY: My name is Willie
5 O'Shay (unintelligible) 46410 Grand River.
6 MEMBER FISCHER: And you, sir.
7 MR. WILSON: Tom Wilson. I
8 own the insurance agency that -- I'm renting
9 the space from Mr. O'Shay -- leasing space
10 at 46410 Grand River Avenue.
11 MEMBER FISCHER: Okay.
12 And please proceed with your
14 MR. WILSON: Well, I leased
15 the space from Mr. O'Shay back in January of
16 '05, this year. And one of the reasons I
17 leased that space is because it was on a
18 busy thoroughfare, Grand River Avenue, I
19 could get some visibility. There was -- I
20 remember from -- couple, two, three, years
21 ago there was an Allstate Agency occupying
22 that space. They had sign up.
23 And so it's my intention to
24 lease that space and erect a sign, so that
1 people can see where I'm at. And so here,
2 it's already November 1st, and I still don't
3 have a sign, because we've been trying to
4 work through some of the steps and
5 procedures. And --
6 MEMBER FISCHER: Would you like
7 to add anything, sir?
8 MR. O'SHAY: I would like for
9 you to approve of that sign, because the
10 buildings -- there's two buildings there.
11 One of them is -- the two of them are
12 separate. (Unintelligible) 46410, that's
13 the insurance agency. So it would be nice
14 to have the sign. I want -- they're very
15 good tenants I have in there. I would like
16 be able to keep them, because it's -- you
17 know, yourself, if you have a vacant
18 buildings they sort of get run down a little
19 bit and stuff like that.
20 So I'd like to be able to have
21 those tenants (unintelligible) and maintain
22 a nice property, pretty good.
23 MEMBER FISCHER: Excellent.
24 Anything else?
1 All set?
2 MR. WILSON: Well, I'd just
3 like to add that, I'm a competitive
4 business, and without a sign, I might as
5 well leave that space and go somewhere else,
6 because it's not going to do me any good to
7 lease a space where I couldn't put a sign
9 MEMBER FISCHER: Okay. All
10 right. Thank you for that.
11 In this case, there were 13
12 notices mailed; one approval, zero
13 objections. The approval is from Willie
14 O'Shay, 22511 Elnor(ph) Drive.
15 Does anyone in the audience
16 which to address the Board regarding this
18 Seeing none, I'll ask the
19 Building Department if they have comments?
20 MR. SAVEN: No comments.
21 MR. AMOLSCH: The issue before
22 the Board here really is the existing ground
23 sign (unintelligible) New Hudson Welding.
24 This gentleman wants two ground signs. And
1 my understanding from the sign company is
2 they're going to remove the New Hudson
3 Welding sign. There would be two ground
5 The Ordinance only allows one
6 per parcel of land. These are two separate
7 businesses, two buildings.
8 (unintelligible) three on one
9 parcel; (unintelligible) allowed one ground
11 MEMBER FISCHER: Thank you,
12 Mr. Amolsch.
13 And at this time, I will open
14 it up for Board discussion.
15 Member Sanghvi?
16 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you,
17 Mr. Chairman.
18 I see they are two separate
19 buildings, two separate businesses. And I
20 personally have no problem supporting the
21 applicant's request. I have no difficulty
22 in supporting the applicant's request for
23 this variance.
24 Thank you.
1 MEMBER FISCHER: Thank you,
2 Member Sanghvi.
3 Any other Board Members?
4 Member Gronachan?
5 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Thank you,
6 Mr. Chairman Fischer.
7 I would just like to say that
8 under the circumstances; given the -- bear
9 with me while I explain this -- when you're
10 driving down Grand River, it is difficult to
11 see the buildings and identify them given
12 the speed and the width, as well.
13 Normally an insurance agency
14 is a destination location. However, there
15 is some drive-by business; an agency does
16 get a lot of walk in business primarily.
17 Well, not primarily, but if you -- depending
18 on what you do, you do work by appointments,
19 but there can be some walk in business.
20 Insurance agents generally
21 work evenings and Saturdays, so it's dark.
22 There's different factors that the
23 Petitioner could have added to his case, so
24 I'll help him along here; and therefore, I
1 will be in support of this, given the layout
2 of Grand River and the specific width and
3 setbacks of this particular request.
4 Thank you.
5 MEMBER FISCHER: Thank you,
6 Member Gronachan.
7 Seeing heads nodding, Member
9 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you,
10 Mr. Chairman.
11 In this situation I would like
12 to make a Motion that in Case Number 05-087,
13 we grant the request of the applicant for
14 business identification purposes.
15 MEMBER BAUER: Second the
17 MEMBER FISCHER: There is a
18 Motion and second on the table.
19 Any further discussion?
20 MR. SCHULTZ: As a point of
21 reference, if I could ask that Member Gronachan's
22 comments may be adapted by the maker of the
23 Motion, in terms of the width of the roadway and
24 the speed and --
1 MEMBER BAUER: Identification?
2 MR. SCHULTZ: -- business
3 identification, in terms of what, I guess?
4 MEMBER SANGHVI: Well, they're
5 two separate buildings here. Three different
6 addresses here. Three different lots here, three
7 different numbers here; these are all different
8 things, and they all stand for themselves on
9 their own merit; without even going into the
11 But if you so desire, I have
12 no problem doing that.
13 Thank you.
14 MR. SCHULTZ: That suffices as
15 far as I'm concerned.
16 MEMBER FISCHER: Okay. We will
17 make that part of the record and part of the
19 Mr. Amolsch?
20 MR. AMOLSCH: (Unintelligible)
21 New Hudson Welding sign to come down?
22 MEMBER BAUER: (Unintelligible)
23 taking the sign down.
24 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes, that is
1 right. That welding sign also belongs to the
2 existing business, yes.
3 MEMBER FISCHER: There is an
4 amended Motion on the table. The seconder
6 Okay. Any further discussion?
7 Seeing none, Ms. Backus, will
8 you please call the roll.
9 MS. BACKUS: Member Sanghvi?
10 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes.
11 MS. BACKUS: Member Bauer?
12 MEMBER BAUER: Yes.
13 MS. BACKUS: Member Canup?
14 MEMBER CANUP: Yes.
15 MS. BACKUS: Member Fischer?
16 MEMBER FISCHER: Aye.
17 MS. BACKUS: Member Gronachan?
18 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Yes.
19 MS. BACKUS: And Member Krieger?
20 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes.
21 MS. BACKUS: Motion passes six
22 to zero.
23 MEMBER FISCHER: Your variance
24 has been granted, good luck; and please see the
1 Building Department.
2 MR. WILSON: Thank you very
4 MEMBER FISCHER: Thank you.
6 The next, we will call Case
7 Number 05-088 filed by NorthStar Signs for a
8 real estate sign located at 39525 Thirteen
9 Mile Road. The Petitioner's requesting two
10 sign variances to a erect a ground real
11 estate sign at said property.
12 Is the Petitioner here
14 Please raise your hand and be
15 sworn in by our secretary.
16 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Do you swear
17 or affirm that the information that you're about
18 to give in the matter before you is the truth?
19 MR. Ash: I do.
20 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Thank you.
21 Please state your name and
22 your address for the recording secretary.
23 MR. ASH: Robbie Ash. My
24 address is 30835 John R., Madison Heights,
2 MEMBER FISCHER: Go ahead and
4 MR. ASH: My client is
5 requesting the additional square footage due
6 to the overall size of the development size
7 of the property. The two foot by three foot
8 sign just doesn't seem to be adequate to
9 represent this particular property.
10 I mean, that's the basis of
11 the hardship. And, you know, with the two
12 by three signs, they have very little
13 activity. And as soon as the larger signs
14 go up -- because they've made the request
15 before -- as soon as the larger signs go up,
16 they start getting some activity on those
18 MEMBER FISCHER: Okay. Thank
19 you very much.
20 Is there anyone in the
21 audience that wishes to comment on this
23 Seeing none, I will share with
24 the Board that there were 14 notices mailed;
1 zero approvals, zero objections.
2 Does the Building Department
3 wish to comment?
4 MR. AMOLSCH: No comments.
5 MR. SAVEN: I just have one
7 What's the width at the V?
8 You're saying that you were going to have a
9 V-shaped sign?
10 MR. ASH: Correct.
11 MR. SAVEN: What's the maximum
12 width at that full open position of the V?
13 MR. ASH: Unless I'm mistaken,
14 I believe it's 24 inches; is that correct?
15 MR. SAVEN: Just want to make
17 MEMBER FISCHER: Thank you
18 Mr. Saven.
19 And I'll open it up for Board
21 Member Canup?
22 MEMBER CANUP: Well, I have a
23 problem with a larger sign than what's granted by
24 the Ordinance as it's written. I do have a
1 problem with a eight foot high sign. I would
2 think there should be some -- eight feet's quite
3 fall. What's this in here, nine, ten foot
4 ceiling? That's a big sign.
5 MEMBER FISCHER: Can you restate
6 what you said about the size? I couldn't hear
8 MEMBER CANUP: Well, the height
9 of sign is eight feet from grade by six feet. I
10 think the height is quite overbearing or
11 overpowering, I would say. Something a little
12 more subtle in height and width, maybe.
13 MEMBER FISCHER: And the square
15 I just didn't hear what you
16 said the first time.
17 MEMBER CANUP: I didn't mention
18 square footage. I just mentioned the height.
19 And I think, again, the overall sign itself as
20 probably a little bit overbearing. It's just too
22 MEMBER FISCHER: Anything else,
24 MEMBER CANUP: That's my
2 MEMBER FISCHER: Excellent.
3 And any other opinions from
4 Board Members?
5 Member's Bauer?
6 MEMBER BAUER: I go along with
7 my friend, here. It's too high, and the square
8 footage should be cut down. I think 24 would be
9 much closer to what would be visual, and that's
10 what you want. And I think bringing it down to
11 five feet is still standard. We'd still be able
12 to see it.
13 MEMBER FISCHER: Thank you,
14 Member Bauer.
15 Other Board Members?
16 Member Sanghvi?
17 MEMBER SANGHVI: I agree with
18 the suggestion of Mr. Bauer; and I think the
19 total square footage should be 24 feet, and the
20 height should be five feet; and if that is
21 acceptable, I'm willing to make a Motion.
22 May I make a Motion, sir, then
23 in Case Number 05-088 that the Petitioner's
24 request for a variance be modified with the
1 total square footage of the sign being 24
2 feet; and the total height being five feet.
3 And this sign should remain in the place for
4 the period of one year.
5 MEMBER BAUER: Second the
7 MEMBER FISCHER: There is a
8 Motion and a second.
9 Any further discussion?
10 Mr. Schultz?
11 MR. SCHULTZ: Just since this is
12 somewhat of a denial of the original; just an
13 indication, as I heard from the discussion that
14 24 square feet is sufficient for identification.
15 MEMBER BAUER: Visibility, sir.
16 MEMBER SANGHVI: Visibility and
18 MR. SCHULTZ: No practical
19 difficulty for the height has been established.
20 MEMBER FISCHER: Okay.
21 The Motioner and seconder
22 agree to those comments being added as part
23 of the Motion?
24 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes.
1 MEMBER BAUER: Yes.
2 MEMBER FISCHER: All right.
3 There's a Motion and a second.
4 Any further discussion?
5 Seeing none, Ms. Backus,
6 please call the roll.
7 MS. BACKUS: Member Sanghvi?
8 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes.
9 MS. BACKUS: Member Bauer?
10 MEMBER BAUER: Yes.
11 MS. BACKUS: Member Canup?
12 MEMBER CANUP: Yes.
13 MS. BACKUS: Member Fischer?
14 MEMBER FISCHER: Aye.
15 MS. BACKUS: Member Gronachan?
16 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Yes.
17 MS. BACKUS: Member Krieger?
18 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes.
19 MS. BACKUS: Motion passes six
20 to zero.
21 MEMBER FISCHER: Your variance
22 has been requested with some alterations.
23 Please see the Building
24 Department; and we wish you luck over there.
1 MR. ASH: Okay, thank you.
2 MEMBER FISCHER: Thank you.
4 Next I'd like to call Case
5 Number 05-090, filed by Christopher Cagle
6 for Glenda's Market at 40575 Grand River
7 Avenue. The applicant is requesting storage
8 of landscaping material on the abutting
9 leased property in an OS-1 Zoning District.
10 And you are Mr. Cagle.
11 MR. CAGLE: I am.
12 MEMBER FISCHER: Can you please
13 raise your hand and be sworn in by our secretary.
14 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Do you swear
15 or affirm that the information you're about to
16 give in the matter before you is the truth?
17 MR. CAGLE: I do.
18 MEMBER FISCHER: Go ahead and
19 state your name and address.
20 MR. CAGLE: Oh, Chris Cagle,
21 1100 Pleasant -- South Pleasant Valley,
22 Milford, 48380.
23 I'm here representing Glenda's
24 Garden Center on a variance that was granted
1 last year, for a continuous use regarding
2 outside storage of nursery stock on an
3 adjacent parcel that we've leased for 20
4 years. So just here to kind of follow up on
5 that from last year's meeting, and go
7 MEMBER FISCHER: Thank you very
9 Is there anyone in the
10 audience that wishes to comment on this
12 Seeing none, I'll ask -- in
13 this case, there were 25 notice mailed; one
14 approval and two objections.
15 Ms. Gronachan, would you
16 please read the correspondence?
17 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Yes, Chairman
19 The first one is from Wookeun
20 Lee. The first name is spelled,
21 W-o-o-k-e-u-n; address is 41033 Scarborough
22 Lane. I conditionally approve the variance
23 requested as we did last year, as long as
24 Chris Cagle -- the owner of Glenda's
1 Market -- lives up to the attached agreement
2 we made with him last year.
3 We're kindly requesting that
4 the city of Novi have continued authority.
5 Next is an objection from
6 Steve Kujawa, K-u-j-a-w-a; at 41039
7 Scarborough Lane, Novi. I would support a
8 one year temporary variance only. Last year
9 at the ZBA meeting, one Board Member called
10 panoramic landscaping the biggest eyesore in
11 Novi. Very little has changed.
12 They presented a plan to the
13 ZBA Board, which intended -- which included,
14 I'm sorry, white vinyl fence along Grand
15 River. Instead, Chris Cagle put up a
16 split-rail fence. Along the back of the
17 property, Chris has not weeded the berm or
18 replaced dead trees, as stated in the
19 agreement he signed with the Willowbrook
20 Farm homeowners association.
21 The property was not cleaned
22 up until a few days before this meeting.
23 The last objection is from
24 Richard S. Hamlin of 40750 Grand River. It
1 would seem that a better use could be made
2 of this above-mentioned property. For
3 several years our building has been
4 subjected to the dust stirred up by the
5 trucks delivering and picking up
7 People who work in our
8 building can not maintain clean vehicles.
9 Why not develop this property into a use
10 which would not generate dust. Dust is not
11 healthy nor environmentally friendly. This
12 issue has been previously addressed to no
14 And that concludes the letters
15 this evening.
16 MEMBER FISCHER: Thank you,
17 Member Gronachan.
18 Does the Building Department
19 wish to comment on this case?
20 MR. SAVEN: There were two
21 issues that were brought up at last approval; and
22 I'd like to go over them with the Board, if I
24 Item Number one, property is
1 to be developed in compliance with the site
2 plan submitted on September 28th, 2004; and
3 number two compliance with all the
4 conditions of the July 21st, 2004 agreement
5 with the Willowbrook homeowner's
7 These are part of the letters
8 that you received today to which that
9 agreement was complied with.
10 MEMBER FISCHER: Thank you
11 Mr. Saven.
12 Mr. Amolsch, any comments?
13 MR. AMOLSCH: No comments,
15 MEMBER FISCHER: Thank you.
16 I'll open it up for Board
18 Member Canup?
19 MEMBER CANUP: Mr. Amolsch, has
20 there been any violations issued since the last
21 time, a year ago; and did they live up to the
22 agreements that they had committed to?
23 MR. AMOLSCH: There have been no
24 violations that I'm aware of since last year.
1 MEMBER CANUP: No complaints?
2 MR. AMOLSCH: No complaints
3 that I'm aware of, sir.
4 The only item I'm not sure
5 about is the (unintelligible) drainage
6 problems, if that's still an issue or not.
7 I wasn't able to verify that.
8 MEMBER FISCHER: Thank you,
9 Mr. Canup.
10 Member Gronachan?
11 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Mr. Cagle,
12 what about this split-rail fence?
13 MR. CAGLE: It's a white vinyl
14 fence. There's no split-rail fence.
15 MEMBER GRONACHAN: I'm sorry?
16 MR. CAGLE: That's a white
17 vinyl fence. It's vinyl. It's not
18 split-rail. Split-rail is wood and it's
19 either two or three core split-rail
20 (unintelligible) together. This is all
21 white vinyl fence. It will never be
22 painted. I bought it from South Lyon Fence
23 down in New Hudson. It's exactly what I
24 said I'd put up, so it's up.
1 As far as the berm, any time
2 we've had a request from Willowbrook, we
3 have, you know, addressed the request. We
4 did work in the berm this spring. I just
5 got a request three days when the letters
6 went out as far as the weeds coming up and
7 the few dead trees in the berm, we've
8 replaced them. We did it. We've moved
9 close to 600 trees in the last 60 days from
10 this parcel; so, there's a lot more open
11 land; it's a lot cleaner. It's not as dense
12 as it was, and it'll never going to go back
13 to that.
14 I mean it's a lot more
15 cleaner. We don't get the deliveries that
16 we had three years ago. I have -- since two
17 years ago, purchased property west of here
18 to grow trees on and store excess trees.
19 I'm trying to comply with the city and the
21 I mean, like we said, it was
22 120 acres of farm land when we moved here in
23 '81; and we're trying to comply with the
24 change in the City, the growth of the
1 community and the neighbors. So we're
2 trying to keep, you know, a viable business
3 that's been in our family for over 20 years;
4 and also keep everybody that's around us --
5 adjacent to us, also consider their
6 livelihood and their family situations at
7 the same time.
8 MEMBER GRONACHAN: I want to
9 make some comments for the record.
10 MR. CAGLE: Okay.
11 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Because I'm
12 not in support of this. And the reason why I'm
13 not, is because as a long time resident of this
14 community, I drive past your location no less --
15 no less than five times a day, a day. And there
16 are times when I'm not happy with the appearance
17 of that lot.
18 What keeps burning in my mind,
19 is Member Canup making statements in the
20 previous meeting when we're are trying to
21 fit something in that no longer belongs
22 there. What also concerns me, I would like
23 on the record, and others in the future that
24 everybody keep a look at, is your statement
1 of we are trying to comply. There's no
2 trying. There's no question of it. It is
3 you have to comply.
4 I have concerns that the
5 residents at Willowbrook have to call you to
6 tell you those trees are dead. If you truly
7 wanted to be in this location -- and I
8 apologize. I'm not trying to come down hard
9 on you -- but if you want to fit a round peg
10 in a square whole, it's going to be you, the
11 business person, to fill the holes in of the
12 square hole.
13 Do you follow me?
14 MR. CAGLE: I understand.
15 MEMBER GRONACHAN: I don't think
16 that the Petitioner -- that the residents should
17 have to call you and tell you that there's dead
18 trees on your berm. I don't think that the
19 residents should have to be concerned about weeds
20 growing at all. I don't think the residents
21 should have to make any comments.
22 You made an agreement. You
23 want to keep your business at that location,
24 I see the onus on you; not on Willowbrook.
1 I will agree to support this this evening;
2 but next year -- I want it on the record --
3 if there's so much as a smidgen on this
4 record, one violation; then I think it's
5 time for Glenda's Market to look for some
6 place else.
7 I don't feel that this
8 business fits into this location anymore.
9 The mud on Grand River did not stop. I
10 wasn't going to call Alan and complain,
11 because that's not what I do. I'm not the
12 Ordinance officer. If other people can live
13 with it, that's fine. But the appearance of
14 the business was not tip-top. And if it was
15 me doing what you did to -- in front of this
16 Board, the promises that you made, honestly,
17 I would have been on my knees with a
18 toothbrush cleaning up Grand River this
19 spring. That's the God's honest truth, if I
20 wanted to do business here in Novi.
21 So I apologize for my tone,
22 but I think you need to understand that this
23 isn't about this board and it isn't about
24 residents. It's about you. And if you want
1 to keep this business in Novi, then I would
2 do whatever I could to make sure that I
3 apply and adhere to any all agreements with
4 the ZBA; with the City of Novi; and
5 especially with the residents at
7 Thank you.
8 MEMBER FISCHER: Thank you,
9 Member Gronachan.
10 Any other comments?
11 Second round.
12 Go ahead, Member Canup.
13 MEMBER CANUP: You stated that
14 you had other properties that you were moving
15 your operation to, your tree operation; is that
17 MR. CAGLE: What I said is I
18 purchased some property in the Brighton
19 area, as far as growing trees and trying to,
20 you know, alleviate the -- having to have
21 trees come in from other nurseries and so
22 forth; so not having to mass of trees at the
23 site, yes.
24 MEMBER CANUP: You know, my
1 opinion is, possibly that there could be a better
2 use for that site that you're on. And I wouldn't
3 have a problem with granting a variance for
4 another year; with the idea that you're trying to
5 phase that portion of it out and maybe get that
6 tree -- was it wholesale tree?
7 MR. CAGLE: No, just part of
8 Glenda's. We sell trees to the public.
9 MEMBER CANUP: Maybe try to get
10 that into an area that's more fitting. I'm also
11 sure that that property is -- there's going to be
12 a time when it's going to be too valuable to be
13 growing trees on.
14 MR. CAGLE: Well, it's not
15 mine, so, yeah, I don't know what --
16 MEMBER CANUP: You lease that,
17 don't you?
18 MR. CAGLE: Yeah, from Mr.
19 Weiss. I don't know what his intents are.
20 MEMBER CANUP: Yeah.
21 Any way, I would support the
22 request with the idea that next year, I may
23 not be so supportive.
24 MEMBER FISCHER: Thank you,
1 Member Canup.
2 Member Bauer?
3 MEMBER BAUER: I'll support
4 this, if you'll go ahead and extend that fence
5 all the way across that lot to the west.
6 MR. CAGLE: To the west,
7 that's fine.
8 MEMBER BAUER: Is there any
10 MR. CAGLE: No.
11 MEMBER FISCHER: We have other
12 comments, Member Krieger?
13 MEMBER KRIEGER: I concur with
14 the previous speakers, and I'd also like to
15 include in that the considerations from --
16 that the -- from the meeting from September
17 28th in 2004; and to keep in consideration
18 of the Willowbrook Subdivision.
19 Thank you.
20 MEMBER FISCHER: Thank you.
21 Member Sanghvi?
22 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you,
23 Mr. Chairman.
24 I would also like to add my
1 voice to what Member Gronachan just stated.
2 I think it's time to send a message that we
3 will not take this any longer. And that
4 being a business, I think we should give one
5 more year's notice, and that should be the
6 final notice. The understanding should be
7 very clear that we are not going to look at
8 this thing, unless they have fulfilled their
9 obligations, not only to the spirit; but to
10 the letter of that agreement they entered
12 Thank you.
13 MEMBER FISCHER: Thank you.
14 And I'll go ahead and make
15 some comments, as well.
16 Let me first say that, you
17 know, I applaud you for being here 20 years;
18 is that correct?
19 MR. CAGLE: That's correct.
20 MEMBER FISCHER: And trying to
21 work within the development and the growth that
22 this City has made; and that's a large part of my
23 deliberations in my own mind. You know, it is a
24 growing City; it's a changing city, and I think
1 it's great that you're still here. And I'm not
2 willing to say that I'm going to try to push you
3 out or anything to that effect.
4 However, on the other hand
5 there are things that need to be taken care
6 of. I personally would like to see some
7 type of set maintenance schedule of the
8 berm, if that's a possibility. And also,
9 you had mentioned the PVC fencing. I like
10 the touch, but there have been times that I
11 drive by -- because I live right by there,
12 as well -- that's some of the rails have
13 fallen out. That can be easily taken care
14 of. The fence company should have a little
15 tool, and all it does is make a little hole
16 in it that snaps it into place. They will
17 not fall out ever. Then it's even better
18 for you, because it's maintenance free,
20 MR. CAGLE: Exactly.
21 MEMBER FISCHER: So I would
22 suggest that, as well; as well as the comments of
23 Member Bauer. But I applaud you for your
24 efforts. I think that, you know, there's a lot
1 of things in this agreement that you made with
2 the homeowners that you have kept, and I think
3 that some of the Board Members have not
4 necessarily taken that into consideration.
5 I remember something about
6 changing a bin for mulch for a young child
7 that had allergies.
8 So once again, I applaud you.
9 I like the recommendations that the Board's
10 making; and one year would suffice.
11 Those are my comments.
12 I'll put it out to the Board
13 if someone would like to make a Motion.
14 Member Gronachan?
15 MEMBER GRONACHAN: In Case
16 05-090, filed by Chris Cagle for Glenda's Market,
17 we -- I move that we approve the request for the
18 for storage of landscaped materials on the
19 abutting leased property, which is OS-1 Zoning
20 district for one year; with the following
21 amendments or addendums to the Petitioner -- for
22 Petitioner to follow-up on:
23 1, that the fence be extended
24 to the west of the property; 2, that a
1 maintenance program be developed and posted
2 and followed throughout the next year; 3,
3 that the Willowbrook homeowner's association
4 be notify of that maintenance program, so
5 that way if the homeowners have any input,
6 they can contact the Petitioner; and 4, that
7 the amount of trees on the property be
8 continued to be reduced over the next year.
9 And I believe that's it. And
10 that the -- I'm sorry; and 4, that the
11 Petitioner report back to the ZBA in 12
12 months, unless any violations are posted or
13 filed against this Petitioner; then the
14 Petitioner has to come back in front of the
15 ZBA immediately.
16 MEMBER BAUER: Second that, but
17 one change.
18 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay.
19 MEMBER BAUER: One addition, I
20 should say.
21 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay.
22 MEMBER BAUER: That he still
23 maintain what the agreement was with the
24 homeowner's association.
1 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Thank you. I
2 knew there was something else.
3 MEMBER FISCHER: Does the Motion
4 maker approve that friendly amendment?
5 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Yes.
6 MEMBER FISCHER: And there's a
8 Further discussion?
9 Mr. Saven?
10 MR. SAVEN: Mr. Chair, Members
11 of the Board, I do want to go to the previous
12 meeting that we had. There were two conditions
13 that were outlined in that particular approval.
14 I would respectfully request that those two
15 conditions be included in the Motion.
16 MEMBER FISCHER: Would you like
17 to read those (interposing) (unintelligible.)
18 MR. SAVEN: Those were pursuant
19 to the October 5th meeting one and two, it
20 basically said property is to be developed in
21 compliance with the site plan submitted on
22 September 28th, 2004 (unintelligible) site plan
23 approval. And compliance with all the conditions
24 of July 21st, 2004 agreement with the Willowbrook
1 Farms Association, which Mr. Bauer indicated
3 MEMBER GRONACHAN: I accept that
4 friendly amendment to my Motion, as spoken by
5 Mr. Saven.
6 MEMBER BAUER: Seconds.
7 MEMBER FISCHER: The seconder
9 And I would like to also
10 include one last friendly amendment.
11 Like I said, I have concerns
12 with the PVC fence railing; that the
13 Petitioner does fix that problem so the
14 railings do not fall out, as suggested by
15 the Board.
16 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay,
18 MEMBER FISCHER: Any further
19 discussion on this Motion?
20 Not even Mr. Schultz, all
22 Ms. Backus, would you please
23 call the roll.
24 MS. BACKUS: Member Gronachan?
1 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Yes.
2 MS. BACKUS: Member Bauer?
3 MEMBER BAUER: Yes.
4 MS. BACKUS: Member Canup?
5 MEMBER CANUP: Yes.
6 MS. BACKUS: Member Fischer?
7 MEMBER FISCHER: Aye.
8 MS. BACKUS: Member Krieger?
9 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes.
10 MS. BACKUS: And Member Sanghvi?
11 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes.
12 MS. BACKUS: Motion passes six
13 to zero.
14 MEMBER FISCHER: Thank you.
15 Your variance has been granted with a couple
16 conditions. We wish you the best of luck.
17 MR. CAGLE: Thank you.
18 MEMBER FISCHER: And please do
19 try to comply with those, and we do wish you the
20 best of luck.
21 MR. CAGLE: Thank you.
23 MEMBER FISCHER: I would like to
24 call Case Number 05-091, filed by Bright Star,
1 Incorporated for Gus O'Connor's, located at 42875
2 Grand River. The Petitioner's requesting one
3 sign variance for a wall sign to be installed at
4 Gus O'Connor's at said address.
5 And can you please raise your
6 hand and be sworn in by our secretary.
7 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Do you swear
8 or affirm that the information that you're about
9 to give in the matter before you, is the truth?
10 MR. SMITH: Yes.
11 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Thank you.
12 MEMBER FISCHER: Please state
13 your name and address for the record and proceed.
14 MR. SMITH: My name is Mark
15 Smith, owner of Gus O'Connor's; and my
16 address is 3992 Main Center Road, Lake
17 Orion, Michigan, 48360.
18 We'd just like to -- all the
19 information has been submitted at prior
20 meetings. I'd just like to add that we love
21 being here in Novi. In order for us to
22 continue to do well and to grow in this
23 City, we do find that it is necessary for
24 us to have a wall sign; as many of the other
1 business do in the area.
2 Our common complaint by the
3 community is, they don't even know we're
4 there; or they're looking for us. They
5 can't find us. So this will go a long way
6 into helping us to grow our business and to
7 maintain a successful business here in Novi.
8 MEMBER FISCHER: Thank you, sir.
9 Is there anyone in the
10 audience that wishes to comment on this
12 Seeing none, we will share
13 with the Board that there were seven notices
14 mailed. There were zero approvals, zero
16 And open it up for the
17 Building Department to share comments.
18 MR. SAVEN: No comments.
19 MR. AMOLSCH: No comments,
21 MEMBER FISCHER: And we'll move
22 to Board discussion.
23 Member Bauer?
24 MEMBER BAUER: Your Pub is
2 MR. SMITH: Thank you.
3 MEMBER BAUER: And it is a final
4 place where people will go. They know you're
5 there. I think the sign's too big, and I think
6 it should be cut down some.
7 MEMBER FISCHER: Thank you,
8 Member Bauer.
9 Is there anything else? Any
10 other comments?
11 Any other Board Members?
12 Member Gronachan?
13 MEMBER GRONACHAN: I have a
14 question for Alan. I guess I've got to go back
15 to ZBA school.
16 When this building was
17 built -- and I asked this at the last
18 meeting. This is where I'm confused. Why
19 didn't they have a sign on the front of this
20 building to begin with? What is bothering
21 me here that I can't get this straight?
22 They (unintelligible) smaller
24 MR. AMOLSCH: They have a sign
1 currently on the north elevation; the one on
2 the Main Street (unintelligible.) They do
3 have signs in the front right now.
4 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. But
5 what's up there right now is the mockup, correct?
6 MR. AMOLSCH: No, there's
7 another --
8 MEMBER GRONACHAN: This is where
9 I'm confused (unintelligible) -- at first when
10 they said it's down here, right.
11 Honestly, I can't support
12 this, and the reason why is when I went down
13 Grand River several times, after I went and
14 looked at insurance for Tom Wilson, I can
15 see the Gus O'Connor over the door very
16 well. And I just -- I have a problem -- not
17 only with that overage, but this Gus
18 O'Connor actually sticks out better than
19 your signage over the top of the building.
20 So I don't know what -- I
21 don't know why people can find you. But
22 going down Grand River, that gold print over
23 the door sticks out, and it's very nice. I
24 like it. It's very, very becoming, so to
2 MR. SMITH: That was our
3 intent initially, is to have -- and hopeful
4 to have in the tradition of the authentic
5 Irish pub. That's what we initially to go
6 with. But our business has suffered by not
7 having a large sign. We -- I have -- that
8 is one of my biggest complaints is people
9 cannot find us.
10 And especially in the summer
11 when the trees along Grand River are in
12 bloom, you cannot see that sign. I drive,
13 you know, that way every day. I come in
14 that way, and when the trees are in bloom,
15 you cannot see that sign.
16 MEMBER GRONACHAN: If that is --
17 I keep forgetting about those trees. And that's
18 just kind of a self-created Novi hardship, but I
19 do had agree that it's -- what other size could
20 you live with?
21 MR. SMITH: Well, you know, in
22 my opinion we wanted to it keep it kind of,
23 you know, a classy -- if there's a way you
24 can do a sign like this classy. We tried to
1 do it in a way that's not overbearing. We
2 don't want to have something that is a gaudy
3 eyesore. That is not our intent at all. I
4 mean, we want to be a part of this community
5 for a very, very long time. And that's why
6 we tried to come up with something that, A,
7 we could live with esthetically; and B,
8 would help our business grow.
9 And as you did state, Mr.
10 Bauer, it is a destination area. But, if we
11 have a party on a weekend, I can tell you we
12 will -- unless they've been to our location
13 before -- I would get no fewer than four or
14 five phone calls asking where we're at.
15 People have gone by and missed our location.
16 And, you know, we have to guide them.
17 It's been a lot easier since
18 we've had the mockup; and we've actually
19 been busier since we've had that sign up. I
20 think everyone knows that with the
21 construction this summer, things have been
22 very difficult. When we put that sign up,
23 our business increased almost 15 percent
24 within the first month of having that mockup
1 up. That we had -- this is the second time
2 we've had to do it.
3 When it came back down, our
4 business went back down. I don't think
5 that's a coincidence. And I've got the
6 numbers to prove that. And I just think for
7 us to sustain this business long term in
8 this City, we need to have this sign.
9 Thank you.
10 MEMBER GRONACHAN: I guess I can
11 understand what Member Bauer is saying. This is
12 a big storefront. If I have a Petitioner
13 standing here saying he's got proof -- I'm all
14 about numbers -- I could support the size, given
15 the testimony that the Petitioner has given.
16 Thank you.
17 MEMBER FISCHER: Member Sanghvi?
18 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you,
19 Mr. Chairman.
20 Couple of comments. Number
21 one, the applicant was here last month and
22 we turned him down because he didn't have a
23 mockup that was the reason.
24 MEMBER GRONACHAN: He wasn't
1 here last month. It was two months ago.
2 MEMBER SANGHVI: Well, two
3 months ago, okay. We've got a mockup. He has a
4 hardship of visibility of his business from Grand
5 River, itself. And to a certain degree, that's a
6 fact, because I can't see that sign, that little
7 sign on the corridor driving down Grand River;
8 unless you came closer, almost to the end of the
9 parking lot you will find it.
10 So they do need an identifying
11 sign. So the question is, whether this
12 particular sign, the mockup they have, is
13 too big or not. And that begs the question
14 of what kind of size of the sign do we have
15 up in the health food store. This is along
16 the same -- in the same general area; and
17 whether we can find a way of having some
18 degree of uniformity in the size of the
19 lettering; so that one doesn't look gaudier
20 or more overbearing than that.
21 So my question is, the
22 Building Department, do we have any idea of
23 what kind of sign we approved for the health
24 food store?
1 MR. AMOLSCH: I can get that
2 information real quick, if you want it.
3 MEMBER SANGHVI: Because if we
4 have --
5 MEMBER FISCHER: (Unintelligibl
7 Go ahead.
8 MEMBER SANGHVI: Because if we
9 have that information, we have what the guideline
10 to go by. And maybe then we'll have one way of
11 making a uniform size of sign in that complex,
12 and also providing them the visibility they need.
13 Thank you.
14 MEMBER FISCHER: Thank you.
15 Just a point of order that I
16 would like to bring back to the Board's
17 attention is that the case before us is
18 concerning the applicant having and
19 additional sign. And Mr. Amolsch just
20 stepped out.
21 Maybe Mr. Saven can assist us.
22 If they did not have that
23 little sign on the corner, would they be
24 allowed to have that size of sign in front?
1 MR. SAVEN: Going back to the
2 fact we have businesses on both corners,
3 they would be allowed two signs. But
4 because of the fact there's more than two
5 signs involved, any additional sign would be
6 a violation.
7 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Including the
9 MR. SAVEN: Yes.
10 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Two months
11 ago when you guys said that this was not a
12 dimensional variance, I said I needed to see the
13 mockup, now the size is an issue.
14 MR. SAVEN: I'm sorry. I
15 stand corrected.
16 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay.
18 MR. SAVEN: It's the additional
19 sign, because that's all covered.
20 MEMBER GRONACHAN: So he could
21 have this size, the 64.92.
22 MR. SAVEN: That I couldn't
23 tell you because I don't know the setbacks
24 from the road. (Unintelligible) setbacks.
1 Do you remember what Vic's was like, the
2 (unintelligible) Vic's was a single tenant
4 And when Vic's decided to
5 split off, we had another case that came in
6 because (unintelligible) single building,
7 two owners, that type of sign you were
8 looking at?
9 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Mr. Saven,
10 through the Chair. Two months ago when I said I
11 don't want to hear this case without the sign,
12 without the mockup. Board Members said this is
13 not a dimensional issue. This is just the fact
14 that it's an additional sign.
15 MR. SAVEN: And I would agree
16 with that.
17 MEMBER GRONACHAN: So, he can
18 have the 64.2, due to the setbacks; and there was
19 an issue there about the setbacks and everything.
20 MEMBER BAUER: (Unintelligible)
21 sign in front.
22 MEMBER GRONACHAN: He's going to
23 take that down.
24 MEMBER FISCHER: Yeah, yeah.
1 That other sign (unintelligible) that other sign
2 would definitely have to go. But my concern,
3 what I want to bring back to the Board's
4 attention, we're looking at how many signs; not
5 the size of the sign. And that's the important
7 I would really like -- I don't
8 know if Mr. Schultz is prepared to talk,
9 too -- but I would like Mr. Amolsch's
10 opinion as to whether, you know, if it
11 wasn't a number of signs issue, I don't
12 think that the Petitioner would be here. So
13 I don't want to critique him on the size.
14 So we need it take (unintelligible) what
15 we're looking at.
16 Mr. Schultz?
17 MR. SCHULTZ: I think Alan just
18 went to get a picture to show what the other
19 signs are in the area. But, I mean by virtue of
20 the fact that he's not entitled to a second sign
21 at all, without the Board's approval, the Board
22 has the ability to weigh in on whatever it wants
23 the size to be. So, you can use the guide
24 (unintelligible) to just one sign, but you have
1 full discretion on the size and things like that.
2 MEMBER FISCHER: Mr. Amolsch,
3 the question kind (unintelligible) right now is
4 the sign, is the little hanging sign on Main
5 Street that is causing the variance question.
6 MR. AMOLSCH: No. There's
7 two -- three. They have two wall signs and
8 one projection sign. They're allowed one
9 wall sign and one projection sign per
11 MEMBER FISCHER: Okay.
12 MR. AMOLSCH: They got a
13 variance for the second wall sign they have
14 now, and they're asking for another variance
15 for the second wall sign. They plan on
16 removing the sign that's there now. And I
17 think I told the Board before, the issue is
18 not a dimensional variance. It's the number
19 of signs.
20 MEMBER FISCHER: Correct.
21 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Well, because
22 what Mr. Schultz was saying, is because it is
23 coming to us, we could say something about the
24 size. It's not a violation, but it's still up to
1 the Board -- the discretion of the Board to make
2 it smaller, if we want.
3 MEMBER FISCHER: Member Krieger?
4 MEMBER KRIEGER: (Unintelligibl
5 e) on Main Street (unintelligible) Gus O'Connor,
6 so the issue would be just one sign.
7 MEMBER BAUER: On that side.
8 MEMBER GRONACHAN: On Grand
10 MR. AMOLSCH: (Unintelligible)
11 the other wall sign would be removed.
12 MEMBER FISCHER: The Petitioner
13 agreed to that, as well.
14 MR. AMOLSCH: I have
15 information for the Board on the other signs
17 MEMBER KRIEGER: I would like to
18 know that also; the neighboring size of the
20 MR. AMOLSCH: Okay. There's
21 Lifestyles, which is on the same building
22 where Vic's Market used to be. That sign is
23 a little under 65 square feet in area.
24 Better Health Market, which the Board just
1 approved a variance for in -- last November,
2 is 120 square feet of sign area. Motor City
3 Golf Warehouse is also under 64 square feet.
4 And just for comparison, Lunar
5 Entertainment, (unintelligible) on Main
6 Street is 38 square feet.
7 MEMBER FISCHER: Thank you,
8 Mr. Amolsch, for that information.
9 MEMBER GRONACHAN: I would like
10 to make a mechanics, if there's no further
12 MEMBER FISCHER: Okay.
13 Member Gronachan?
14 MEMBER GRONACHAN: In Case
15 Number 05-091, filed by Bright Star for Gus
16 O'Connor's Irish Pub, I move that we have approve
17 the request for the sign on Grand River, with the
18 condition that the Petitioner remove the current
19 Gus O'Connor gold sign over the door, based on
20 the testimony given here this evening by
21 Petitioner; and taht size is established with the
22 assistance of the Ordnance Department; that the
23 Petitioner has substantiated proof for
24 identification -- proper identification of the
1 building to increase business.
2 MEMBER KRIEGER: Second.
3 MEMBER FISCHER: There's a
4 Motion and a second.
5 Any further discussion?
6 Seeing none, Ms. Backus, would
7 you please call the roll.
8 MS. BACKUS: Member Gronachan?
9 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Yes.
10 MS. BACKUS: Member Krieger?
11 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes.
12 MS. BACKUS: Member Sanghvi?
13 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes.
14 MS. BACKUS: Member Bauer?
15 MEMBER BAUER: Yes.
16 MS. BACKUS: Member Canup?
17 MEMBER CANUP: Yes.
18 MS. BACKUS: And Member Fischer?
19 MEMBER FISCHER: Aye.
20 MS. BACKUS: Motion passes six
21 to zero.
22 MEMBER FISCHER: Your variance
23 has been granted. Good luck.
24 Please see the Building
2 MR. SMITH: Thank you very
4 MEMBER FISCHER: Thank you.
6 That concludes the cases for
8 So we'll move on to other
10 As Mr. Saven brought up, Case
11 Number: ZBA 05-044 is asking for an
12 extension for the approval be granted until
13 January 31st, 2006?
14 MR. SAVEN: That is correct. It
15 says 2005, but we know it's 20006.
16 MEMBER FISCHER: Right.
17 Any Board Member comments or
19 MEMBER SANGHVI: So moved.
20 MEMBER BAUER: Second.
21 MEMBER FISCHER: There's a
22 Motion and a second.
23 Ms. Backus, will you please
24 call the roll.
1 MS. BACKUS: Member Sanghvi?
2 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes.
3 MS. BACKUS: Member Bauer?
4 MEMBER BAUER: Yes.
5 MS. BACKUS: Member Canup?
6 MEMBER CANUP: Yes.
7 MS. BACKUS: Member Fischer?
8 MEMBER FISCHER: Aye.
9 MS. BACKUS: Member Gronachan?
10 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Yes.
11 MS. BACKUS: Member Krieger?
12 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes.
13 MS. BACKUS: Motion passes six
14 to zero.
15 MEMBER FISCHER: All right. And
16 next, given the retirement of other friend and
17 colleague, Frank Brennan, we are going to have to
18 fill his position as vice-chair on the Board
20 Now, I'll entertain a Motion
21 for nomination?
22 Member Bauer?
23 MEMBER BAUER: I would certainly
24 like to see a doc be a vice president.
1 MEMBER FISCHER: There's a
3 MEMBER KRIEGER: Second.
4 MEMBER FISCHER: And a second.
5 I don't see any further
6 nominations, so Ms. Backus, would you please
7 call the roll.
8 MS. BACKUS: Member Bauer?
9 MEMBER BAUER: Yes.
10 MS. BACKUS: Member Krieger?
11 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes.
12 MS. BACKUS: Member Canup?
13 MEMBER CANUP: Yes.
14 MS. BACKUS: Member Fischer?
15 MEMBER FISCHER: Aye.
16 MS. BACKUS: Member Gronachan?
17 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Yes.
18 MS. BACKUS: Member Sanghvi?
19 MEMBER SANGHVI: I will abstain,
20 thank you.
21 MEMBER FISCHER: The Motion does
23 Congratulations, Member
24 Sanghvi on your vice-chairmanship.
1 Unfortunately, that means you have to start
2 sitting by me. So, we'll work around that,
4 And lastly, we do have the ZBA
5 training next Wednesday from 6:00 to 8:00 at
6 the Novi City Offices. We appreciate the
7 help from the Building Department's attorney
8 on that.
9 MEMBER FISCHER: At this time
10 I'll --
11 Miss Gronachan, you have a
12 question about the training?
13 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Mr. Schultz,
14 are you going to have an outline ahead of time of
15 what will be part of the training, that we could
16 take a like at (unintelligible) something we want
17 to add to it?
18 MR. SCHULTZ: If we can get one
19 out ahead of time. I'm assuming maybe Gail has
20 E-mail address for everybody (unintelligible) in
22 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Well,
23 E-mail's fine. And we could take a look at it
24 and if all of us feel we have a weak spot we can
1 send it back and maybe work on that?
2 MR. SCHULTZ: Sure.
3 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Is there any
4 way we could do some mock cases in training?
5 MR. SCHULTZ: If you want to
6 talk at the beginning of the meeting what -- how
7 you want to proceed, we can.
8 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay.
9 MR. SCHULTZ: I mean, I'd be
10 happy to do that, if that's what the Board would
12 MEMBER FISCHER: Well, my
13 suggestion is go ahead and send an agenda. If
14 any Board Members have suggestions, they can
15 E-mail Mr. Schultz with any suggestions they may
16 have to further training.
17 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay.
18 MEMBER FISCHER: Is that cool
19 with everybody?
20 BOARD MEMBERS: Yes.
21 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Thank you,
23 MEMBER FISCHER: Any other
24 questions regarding our training?
1 Then let's entertain a Motion
2 to adjourn.
3 MEMBER SANGHVI: So moved.
4 MEMBER BAUER: So moved.
5 MEMBER FISCHER: All in favor
6 say aye?
7 BOARD MEMBERS: Aye.
8 MEMBER FISCHER: Aye.
9 This Board stands adjourned.
10 (The deposition was adjourned
11 at 8:30 p.m.)
12 - - - - - - -
1 C E R T I F I C A T E
3 I, Machelle Billingslea-Moore,
4 do hereby certify that I have recorded
5 stenographically the proceedings had and testimony
6 taken in the above-entitled matter at the time and
7 place hereinbefore set forth, and I do further certify
8 that the foregoing transcript, consisting of (62)
9 typewritten pages, is a true and correct transcript
10 of my said stenograph notes.
14 Certified Shorthand Reporter
16 November 19, 2005.