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View Action Summary for this meeting

Tuesday, July 10, 2012

Proceedings had and Testimony taken in the matter of the ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS, at City of Novi, 45175 West Ten Mile Road, Novi, Michigan, on Tuesday, July 10, 2012

Rickie Ibe, Chairman
Mav Sanghvi
Linda Krieger
David Ghannam
Jeffrey Gedeon

Charles Boulard, Building Official
Beth Saarela, City Attorney
Coordinator: Angela Pawlowski, Recording Secretary

Jennifer L. Wall, Certified Shorthand Reporter

1 Novi, Michigan.

2 Tuesday, July 10, 2012

3 7:00 p.m.

4 ** ** **

5 CHAIRMAN IBE: Good evening and

6 welcome to the July 10th, 2012 Zoning Board

7 of Appeals meeting for the City of Novi.

8 Will you all rise for the

9 Pledge of Allegiance.

10 (Pledge of Allegiance was recited.)

11 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you. I will

12 now go over some of the rules for a public

13 hearing, and the format that this meeting

14 will be conducted.

15 Copies of the agenda are in

16 the back of the room for those of you who

17 wish to get a copy and follow today's

18 meeting.

19 Please everybody turn off your

20 cellphones, as well as pagers, so that we are

21 not disrupted during the meeting.

22 Also when your case is called,

23 please come to the podium and state your

24 name, and also spell your name for our

25 reporter, so that we can have the proper



1 spelling of your names.

2 You will be given five minutes

3 to present your case and extensions are --

4 may be granted at the discretion of the

5 Chair.

6 The public will be asked if

7 they wish to make any comments on any

8 particular case. At that point, they will be

9 asked to comment on the case that is before

10 the board.

11 Next is the approval of our

12 agenda. Are there any corrections?

13 MR. SANGHVI: Roll call.

14 CHAIRMAN IBE: Strike that. Can we

15 get a roll call, Ms. Pawlowski.

16 MS. PAWLOWSKI: We actually have

17 one change to the agenda.

18 CHAIRMAN IBE: You do?

19 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Yes. Case No.

20 12-021, at 44275 Twelve Mile. It was

21 advertised in the newspaper, and they have

22 asked to be postponed until the August 14th

23 meeting, or to be tabled.

24 CHAIRMAN IBE: Case No. 5 on the

25 agenda tonight?



1 MS. PAWLOWSKI: It did not make it

2 to the agenda.

3 CHAIRMAN IBE: Oh, it did not make

4 it to the agenda?


6 MR. SANGHVI: It's not there.

7 CHAIRMAN IBE: It's not there,

8 okay.

9 We get a roll call, please.

10 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Gedeon?

11 MR. GEDEON: Here.

12 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Gerblick?

13 (No audible response.)

14 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Ghannam?

15 MR. GHANNAM: Here.

16 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Chairman Ibe?

17 CHAIRMAN IBE: Present.

18 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Krieger?

19 MS. KRIEGER: Here.

20 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Sanghvi?

21 MR. SANGHVI: Here.

22 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Skelcy?

23 MS. SKELCY: Here.

24 CHAIRMAN IBE: Now, do we have any

25 further changes to the agenda other than what



1 was stated earlier?


3 MR. SANGHVI: Motion.

4 CHAIRMAN IBE: Motion to approve

5 the agenda as stated?

6 MR. SANGHVI: So moved.

7 MS. KRIEGER: Second.

8 CHAIRMAN IBE: Seeing that a motion

9 has been made and seconded, all in favor say

10 aye.

11 THE BOARD: Aye.

12 CHAIRMAN IBE: All against?

13 (No audible responses.)

14 CHAIRMAN IBE: Seeing none, the

15 motion is approved and the agenda accepted.

16 Now I'm going to go to the

17 city and ask if there is any comment from the

18 city at this time?


20 CHAIRMAN IBE: What about the

21 minutes from the last meeting from June 12,

22 2012? Do we have any changes?

23 (No audible responses.)

24 CHAIRMAN IBE: Seeing none, can I

25 get a motion?



1 MR. SANGHVI: So moved to accept

2 the minutes.

3 MS. KRIEGER: Second.

4 CHAIRMAN IBE: Motion has been made

5 and seconded. All in favor say aye.


7 CHAIRMAN IBE: All opposed?

8 (No audible response.)

9 CHAIRMAN IBE: Seeing none, the

10 minutes are hereby adopted.

11 Now, move to our public

12 remarks. The public remarks is limited to

13 matters that are just for public remarks and

14 not to any particular case before the board

15 at this time.

16 Do anyone in the public have

17 any public remarks?

18 MR. PHILLIPS: I just didn't

19 understand -- a question. Would there be an

20 opportunity at the end of the meeting to ask

21 for some guidance from the council?

22 CHAIRMAN IBE: On which --

23 MR. VALENTI: It's an extenuating

24 circumstance. I'm just asking for -- I'm

25 Nick Valenti, 27925 Summit, for the record.



1 CHAIRMAN IBE: Maybe at the end of

2 the meeting, sir, we may come to that.

3 MR. VALENTI: Thank you.

4 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you. Very

5 well, sir.

6 We will now move onto our

7 first case.

8 On the agenda for today is

9 Case No. 12-022, 39500 Ten Mile Road.

10 Will the applicant come to the

11 podium, state your name and spell your name

12 for the record.

13 If you're not an attorney,

14 please raise your right hand and be sworn in

15 by Madam Secretary.

16 MR. PHILLIPS: I am not an

17 attorney.

18 CHAIRMAN IBE: Very well. Could

19 you state your name first and spell it.

20 MR. PHILLIPS: Sure. My name is

21 Ed Phillips, P-h-i-l-l-i-p-s, owner of

22 Phillips Sign and Lighting, 40920 Executive

23 Drive, Harrison Township.

24 MS. KRIEGER: In Case No. 12-022,

25 do you swear to tell the truth in this case?




2 I have a handout. May I hand

3 it out?


5 MR. PHILLIPS: I am here this

6 evening representing the Ten Haggerty medical

7 facility located at 39500 West Ten Mile Road.

8 Our hardship is lack of

9 adequate building identification due to

10 topography and building setback.

11 We are a medical facility

12 specializing in geriatrics. Not a day passes

13 that we are not reminded how difficult we are

14 to locate.

15 Our building entrance is as

16 shown on page four, if you would be so kind

17 as to look at this first page there, 388 feet

18 from the closest curb on Ten Mile.

19 We have a Jaguar parking lot

20 directly in front of most of our building,

21 which is again, depicted there, with a very

22 well maintained -- I mean, it is a nice

23 looking parking lot. It's very attractive.

24 The whole point is, we can't find our

25 building.



1 Page four depicts a few

2 additional challenges. Not the bend in the

3 sidewalk. Again, we are behind it. It

4 doesn't seem as severe here as when you're

5 standing in person there. It's quite a

6 little curb, but we are to the east of it.

7 The driveway is where our sign

8 is located at the moment. And the signs

9 that -- again, we are not pointing fingers,

10 we are just kind of trying to show you that

11 we just want to be on equal footing with the

12 rest or our neighbors there.

13 The credit union sign is

14 actually 155 inches behind the sidewalk. The

15 Novi sign is 53 inches in front of the

16 sidewalk, as I'm sure you're all aware. And

17 the Jaguar sign is 112 inches.

18 The next page shows where our

19 sign -- those trees, this is a little big --

20 this is a Google image. As you can see by

21 the Google image, that the credit union

22 hasn't even been built yet. So this picture

23 isn't the most current thing.

24 Those trees are gone. But

25 it's still our sign sits 100 -- our sign sits



1 well back. It's like where that little line

2 is where our sign is.

3 Please note per our package,

4 we are requesting 120-inch from the sidewalk

5 or 70 feet from the center line.

6 Our patients are older and

7 often challenged with traffic and directions.

8 We know our request before you tonight will

9 help guide our patients safely to our

10 facility.

11 Wrapping up, I believes pages

12 one and two show -- demonstrate how well

13 moving our sign ten feet behind the sidewalk

14 will be very much in keeping with the

15 existing signage surrounding us.

16 Your approval this evening

17 will be appreciated by the owners, doctors

18 and especially our patients.

19 If you look closely at page

20 one, you can see the -- obviously the credit

21 union sign, you can see the Novi sign, the

22 Jaguar.

23 That yellow tape that you see

24 to the right of that for lease sign is

25 actually the location of our sign. So it



1 puts it right in keeping with both our

2 neighbors on the other side of us.

3 CHAIRMAN IBE: Could you please put

4 this over by the overhead so we can -- for

5 the benefit of those watching at home, so

6 they can at least follow our presentation.

7 MR. PHILLIPS: This really doesn't

8 demonstrate. It's pretty hard to see up

9 there. This is the credit union sign right

10 here (indicating), this is the Jaguar sign

11 right here (indicating).

12 I don't know that you guys can

13 make this out at all, but there is some

14 yellow tape here. It's a stake that shows

15 our proposed 10 foot setback.

16 All we are doing is looking to

17 move our sign 30 feet west and forward, so

18 that it has a chance.

19 Again, we do realize that our

20 sign, by it's very nature, is not a sign

21 that's to be read. It's an address. That's

22 basically what we want on the street.

23 We tell people it's 32500

24 (sic.) is that right? That's what they look

25 for. Our patients are told to look for a



1 blue sign with an address.

2 Once they pull in the

3 driveway, and they stop, there is plenty of

4 room there for them to kind of look at the

5 sign to see if the doctor they're looking for

6 is on that sign.

7 So we didn't expect people to

8 be reading those doctors' names. We want

9 that address legible. That's really what

10 this is about.

11 Okay. So that's -- I can

12 answer any questions.

13 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you, sir.

14 MR. PHILLIPS: You're welcome.

15 CHAIRMAN IBE: Is there anyone in

16 the public who would like to make any

17 comments regarding the presentation made by

18 the applicant? Please raise your hand.

19 (No audible responses.)

20 CHAIRMAN IBE: Seeing none, I will

21 go through and ask if the city has any

22 comments regarding --


24 MR. BOULARD: Nothing to add.

25 Happy to stand by for questions.



1 CHAIRMAN IBE: Very well. Thank

2 you. I will now ask our Madam Secretary to

3 read into the record any correspondence

4 received for this case.

5 MS. KRIEGER: In Case. No. 12-022,

6 29 were mailed, four returned, zero response.

7 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you. I will

8 now open it up to the Board for discussion.

9 Yes, Ms. Skelcy.

10 MS. SKELCY: Mr. Phillips, so that

11 yellow tape is where the proposed sign is?


13 MS. SKELCY: When I went out and

14 looked at it, it looked even with the Jaguar

15 sign, so I would have no problem agreeing to

16 a vote in favor of the variance. Thank you.

17 MR. PHILLIPS: Thank you.

18 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you. Yes?

19 MR. SANGHVI: Thank you, Mr. Chair.

20 Now I did -- as a matter of fact, I didn't

21 know you had a building back inside for which

22 you want the sign until I went looking for

23 it.

24 I understand your problem that

25 you need some recognition on the street



1 closer for people to be able to read.

2 I have no problem with

3 relocating your sign, but I'm not so sure

4 whether you need as big a sign as you want

5 for the location of your sign. Thank you.

6 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you. Yes?

7 MR. GHANNAM: I just have a couple

8 of questions for the city. The current sign

9 where it's placed, is that -- did that

10 require a variance or was that adequate for

11 the given setback?

12 MR. BOULARD: The allowable size of

13 the sign is based on the setback of the

14 centerline of the road. The existing sign is

15 compliant in its location.

16 Unless I'm mistaken, the

17 petitioner intends to take that sign and move

18 it up as opposed to creating a new slightly

19 smaller sign.

20 MR. GHANNAM: So they need two

21 variances here, for size and setback,

22 correct?

23 MR. BOULARD: Well, it would be

24 really one or the other. They're allowed to

25 have the sign closer. It just would



1 typically be limited in size.

2 So the variance for the larger

3 size would take care of that.

4 MR. GHANNAM: It is going to be the

5 exact same sign that's going to be simply

6 moved forward?


8 MR. GHANNAM: Given the

9 circumstances, I also don't have any problems

10 with it, sir.

11 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you. Member

12 Gedeon?

13 MR. GEDEON: I'm all set. Thank

14 you.

15 CHAIRMAN IBE: Very well. Are you

16 all set?

17 MR. SANGHVI: I'm all set. Thank

18 you.

19 CHAIRMAN IBE: In the absence of

20 any further discussion, we'll entertain a

21 motion.

22 MR. GHANNAM: In Case No, 12-022

23 for 39500 Ten Mile, I move to grant the sign

24 variance as requested, based on circumstances

25 or features that are exceptional and unique



1 to this property and do not result from

2 conditions that exist generally in the city,

3 or that are self-created.

4 The failure to grant relief

5 will unreasonably prevent or limit the use of

6 property and will result in substantially

7 more than mere inconvenience or inability to

8 attain a higher economic or financial return.

9 A grant of relief will not

10 result in a use of structure that is

11 incompatible with or unreasonably interferes

12 with adjacent surrounding properties and will

13 result in substantial justice being done to

14 both the applicant and adjacent properties,

15 and it's not inconsistent with the spirit of

16 the ordinance.

17 MS. SKELCY: Second.

18 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you. Seeing a

19 motion and a second, do we have any further

20 conversation to carry on with this matter?

21 (No audible responses.)

22 CHAIRMAN IBE: Seeing none, I will

23 ask Madam Angela to please call the roll.

24 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Gedeon?

25 MR. GEDEON: Yes.



1 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Ghannam?


3 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Chairman Ibe?


5 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Krieger?


7 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Sanghvi?


9 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Skelcy?

10 MS. SKELCY: Yes.

11 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Motion passes six

12 to zero.

13 CHAIRMAN IBE: Congratulations,

14 sir.

15 MR. PHILLIPS: Thank you. Have a

16 good evening.

17 CHAIRMAN IBE: That brings us to

18 our second case for today. Case No. 12-026,

19 2296 Austin Drive.

20 Will the applicant please come

21 to the podium, and just as a reminder, please

22 state your full name and spell your last

23 name, especially, for the record.

24 If you are not an attorney,

25 please raise your right hand and be sworn in



1 by Madam Secretary. Thank you.

2 MR. SISKONEN: I am Richard

3 Siskonen.

4 MS. SAARELA: We should mention to

5 the applicants that we don't have a full

6 board, so that if they wanted to table until

7 we have a full board, they have the option.

8 CHAIRMAN IBE: Very well. Thank

9 you for that reminder.

10 Just real quickly, for the

11 applicant at the podium, as well as those in

12 the room, we do not have a full board today.

13 So if anyone -- any decision that is made

14 today will be final.

15 If you feel you want to have a

16 full board to hear your case, you are -- at

17 your discretion, you may elect to table your

18 case for the next available meeting date,

19 which will be in the month of August, August

20 14th.

21 However, if you wish to

22 proceed today, we do have a quorum, which

23 means that any decision we make will be

24 final.

25 So if you wish to go forward



1 with your case --


3 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you. Go

4 ahead, speak your full name again.

5 MR. HEAD: My name is Brian Head,

6 H-e-a-d. I'm with All Seasons Enclosures.

7 This is our customer.

8 CHAIRMAN IBE: Can you spell your

9 name, please. Spell your last name.

10 MR. HEAD: H-e-a-d.

11 CHAIRMAN IBE: Very well. Are you

12 an attorney, sir?

13 MR. HEAD: No.

14 CHAIRMAN IBE: Please raise your

15 right hand and be sworn in.

16 MS. KRIEGER: In Case No. 12-026,

17 for 2296 Austin Drive, do you swear to tell

18 the truth in this case?

19 MR. HEAD: Yes, ma'am.

20 CHAIRMAN IBE: Go ahead, sir.

21 MR. HEAD: As you can see on this

22 mortgage survey, what we are proposing is the

23 addition back here, which is only 10 feet

24 out, and 19 foot wide.

25 It looks like, per the



1 Township regulations, that we need 35 feet

2 from the property line, okay.

3 Our hardship lies in due to

4 the way that this property line is angled,

5 how it comes in, this gives us only 33 and a

6 half feet.

7 As you can see, they have half

8 of lot 92, all of lot 93, but where the

9 property lines falls in Shawood Lake, it's

10 not normal.

11 As you can see toward the

12 front, which is kind of rounded, if it was

13 like that, then there would be no problem

14 whatsoever.

15 They're retired, and she is

16 allergic to the sun and they have a heavy

17 mosquito problem there. She's also allergic

18 to bug bites and things like that.

19 She wants to enjoy the family,

20 but it's kind of tough. All they have is a

21 deck right now, and they want to bring the

22 outside in, have a nice little enclosure to

23 sit and enjoy the property.

24 So it's basically what we have

25 is we are looking for about a foot and a



1 half, as far as the way the property lies is

2 why we're here.

3 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you, sir.

4 Is there anybody in the public

5 who would like to make any comments regarding

6 this particular case at this time?

7 (No audible responses.)

8 CHAIRMAN IBE: Seeing none, I will

9 ask our secretary to please read into the

10 record any correspondence received.

11 MS. KRIEGER: For ZBA Case No.

12 12-026, 36 were mailed, five returned, one

13 approval. The approval is from Jerry and

14 Patricia Gibson on Shawood. They just

15 circled approval. Thank you.

16 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you, Madam

17 Secretary.

18 I will now turn to the city

19 for any comment that they may have regarding

20 this particular case.

21 MS. SAARELA: We have none.

22 MR. BOULARD: If I might ask one

23 question of the petitioner.

24 CHAIRMAN IBE: Yes, please.

25 MR. BOULARD: One option would be



1 to install the proposed sunroom along the

2 north side of the house, which would then

3 likely not require a variance.

4 Can you outline for us the

5 reasons that you chose to put the sunroom on

6 the back of the house.

7 MR. HEAD: As you can see, this is

8 looking over the lake and looking over the

9 large part of the property where the children

10 and family come to play and gather and things

11 like that, so this is so she can also look

12 over children and see what's going on,

13 swimming and safety. And so it's just more

14 of making sure the family is okay and

15 enjoying the property the way it views the

16 lake.

17 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you.

18 Now we will open it up to the

19 board for discussion. Yes.

20 MS. SKELCY: I actually live over

21 by you folks. I walk my little Yorkie down

22 Austin all the time. So I know how the lake

23 kind of interferes with the property lines,

24 and that it's not really a self-created

25 problem and it's really the function or



1 caused by the lake location and how it abuts

2 up to the property. So I will have no

3 problem approving a motion for the variance.

4 Thank you.

5 MR. HEAD: Thank you.

6 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you. Member

7 Krieger.

8 MS. KRIEGER: I have a question,

9 Mr. Siskonen. Are you a member of CERT?

10 MR. SISKONEN: A member of what?

11 MS. KRIEGER: CERT, Community

12 Emergency Response Team?


14 MS. KRIEGER: I thought I saw you

15 from somewhere before.

16 MR. SISKONEN: I'm a greeter at

17 Meijer, so you might have seen me in there.

18 MS. KRIEGER: I'm there all the

19 time, too.

20 MR. SISKONEN: I see a lot of

21 people in there. A lot of familiar faces.

22 MR. HEAD: He's also retired from

23 the State.

24 MS. KRIEGER: Okay. Also, as

25 stated by the petitioner, that -- for those



1 reasons, the enclosure in the back, because

2 of the mosquitoes and being able to visualize

3 the whole side of the lake.

4 I have no further questions.

5 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you, Member

6 Krieger.

7 Do we have any additional

8 comments or questions for the applicant?

9 Yes.

10 MR. GHANNAM: Just briefly, I also

11 have no problems with it. To me, it seems

12 like in the most logical place.

13 This is really a technical

14 violation because of the outline of the lot,

15 based on the lake. I mean, this is really

16 what the board is used for to try to help out

17 someone for these technical violations.

18 Again, I have no problem with it.

19 MR. SISKONEN: Thank you.

20 MR. HEAD: Thank you.

21 CHAIRMAN IBE: Just real quickly, I

22 do not have any problem with this as well.

23 I think, if anything at all,

24 the neighbors might actually enjoy a better

25 view, that they probably wouldn't have had.



1 And it will not have any adverse impact on

2 any surrounding neighbors.

3 MR. HEAD: Thank you.

4 CHAIRMAN IBE: Seeing no further

5 conversation of this case, I will entertain a

6 motion.

7 MS. SKELCY: In the case of 12-026

8 for the address of 2296 Austin Drive, I move

9 that we approve the -- that we grant the

10 variance for a 33 and a half foot setback as

11 opposed to the required 35 foot setback.

12 This is based on the fact that

13 there are unique circumstances and physical

14 conditions of the property, such as the

15 narrowness, shallowness, shape, water,

16 topography and other similar conditions. And

17 the need for the variance is not due to the

18 applicant's personal or economic difficulty.

19 The need is not self-created.

20 Strict compliance with

21 regulations governing the area, setback,

22 frontage, height, bulk, density and other

23 dimensional requirements will not

24 unreasonably prevent -- would unreasonably

25 prevent the property owner from using the



1 property for a permitted purpose and will

2 render conformity to these regulations

3 unnecessarily burdensome.

4 The requested variance is the

5 minimum variance necessary to do substantial

6 justice to the applicant, as well as to other

7 property owners in the district.

8 And the requested variance

9 will not cause an adverse impact on

10 surrounding property, property values or the

11 use and enjoyment of the property in the

12 neighborhood or the zoning district.

13 MR. GHANNAM: Second.

14 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you. Seeing a

15 motion and a second, do we have any further

16 conversation on this case?

17 (No audible responses.)

18 CHAIRMAN IBE: Seeing none, please

19 call the roll.

20 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Gedeon?

21 MR. GEDEON: Yes.

22 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Ghannam?

23 MR. GHANNAM: Yes.

24 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Chairman Ibe?




1 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Krieger?


3 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Sanghvi?


5 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Skelcy?

6 MS. SKELCY: Yes.

7 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Motion passes six

8 to zero.

9 MR. HEAD: Thank you so much.

10 CHAIRMAN IBE: Congratulations.

11 Thank you.

12 That brings us to our next

13 case. Case No. 12-027, 44000 Twelve Mile

14 Road.

15 Will the applicant please come

16 to the podium. Please, when you get to the

17 podium, state your full name and spell your

18 last name for the record.

19 If you don't have an attorney,

20 please raise your right hand and be sworn in

21 You may proceed.

22 MR. MILLER: My name is Roger

23 Miller, owner of Spectrum Signs and Designs

24 in Dearborn, Michigan, 25217 Michigan Avenue.

25 CHAIRMAN IBE: Did you spell your



1 last name?

2 MR. MILLER: Yes, M-i-l-l-e-r.

3 MS. KRIEGER: In Case No. 12-027,

4 on 44000 Twelve Mile Road, do you swear or

5 affirm to tell the truth in this case?

6 MR. MILLER: Yes, I do.

7 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you.

8 MR. MILLER: Yes. The property

9 owner is requesting a variance for additional

10 wall signage on the east and west upper sides

11 of the building for the urgent care facility

12 that is a tenant in the building.

13 The building with its

14 positioning and setback does not have any

15 other way to show the existence of these

16 medical services that are available under

17 emergency satiations, and the placement on

18 the building is to cover both directions of

19 Twelve Mile, and up high enough on the

20 building so it can be seen over the trees

21 that are on the properties on either side of

22 this building.

23 And the request is the --

24 under the ordinance it's only allowed to have

25 one wall sign and one ground sign, which it



1 has already, so this would be additional wall

2 signs, and also with the sizing, it is ten

3 square feet larger than what's allowed in the

4 ordinance.

5 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you. Is there

6 anyone in the public who would like to make a

7 comment regarding this particular case at

8 this time?

9 (No audible responses.)

10 CHAIRMAN IBE: Seeing none, I will

11 ask if we have comments from the city?

12 MS. SAARELA: I have none.

13 MR. BOULARD: Just one question, if

14 I may. There is an existing ground sign

15 which has the urgent care notice on that.

16 Was there any thought given to

17 dedicating a larger portion of that sign as

18 opposed to putting additional signs on the

19 building?

20 MR. MILLER: Well, that sign is

21 fairly visible as it is, but it really -- for

22 people driving until they're right in front

23 of the property, it's not as visible and it

24 is -- and that sign even being larger is not

25 easily visible on the eastbound traffic



1 because of the center median that's there.

2 So I don't think it would help

3 the situation by just increasing the size

4 there on the monument sign.

5 MR. BOULARD: Thank you.

6 CHAIRMAN IBE: I will ask our

7 secretary to read in the record any

8 correspondence received in this case.

9 MS. KRIEGER: In Case No. 12-027,

10 42 were mailed, five returned, zero

11 responses.

12 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you. I will

13 now open up this particular case for

14 discussion from the board.

15 MR. GHANNAM: Do you know how many

16 tenants are in this building?

17 MR. MILLER: No, I do not know that

18 information.

19 MR. GHANNAM: There are several,

20 aren't there?

21 MR. MILLER: Yes.

22 CHAIRMAN IBE: My problem with this

23 particular request is, number one, you're

24 asking for two signs. I understand why.

25 Don't get me wrong, it's logical, you want



1 signs all over the building. I get that.

2 Plus you want signs that are

3 oversized for the building. To me the

4 outside of the building is identified as a

5 medical building. Not necessarily urgent

6 care, but medical.

7 The ground sign already

8 identifies that there is an urgent care

9 there.

10 I don't think this is the type

11 of business that people are driving up and

12 down the street looking for an urgent care.

13 It's something you look on

14 your phone or you look in the yellow pages,

15 something to that effect. So hopefully

16 people would look you up before they come

17 driving around, so I don't think, in my

18 opinion, this meets standards that are

19 required for these type of hearings.

20 Unfortunately, I would not be

21 in support of this.

22 MR. MILLER: A couple of things,

23 one, you asked about the other tenants and

24 that in the building.

25 The property management spoke



1 with all of the tenants of the building and

2 they didn't have any problem. I mean, from

3 that aspect --

4 MR. GHANNAM: Sir, I understand

5 that. I'm not really trying to argue with

6 you. But with your theory, every single

7 tenant should be entitled to a couple of

8 signs because why not dermatology, and why

9 not obstetrics and so forth.

10 I don't think just because

11 it's an urgent care it has any special

12 preference. There is a ground sign, that

13 hopefully all tenants will have some

14 identification for. I just don't think this

15 meets our standards. Thank you.

16 CHAIRMAN IBE: Anything additional?

17 MR. SANGHVI: Thank you. I agree

18 with Mr. Ghannam. This is not an emergency

19 room. An urgent care sign is already there.

20 These additional signs are not necessary.

21 Thank you.

22 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you, Member

23 Sanghvi.

24 Do we have any additional

25 comments or questions? Yes, Member Krieger.



1 MS. KRIEGER: Has the company, the

2 Premier Medical area, that signage in redoing

3 it, have they considered remodeling that or

4 changing it so that they can accommodate the

5 desire to put the signs on east, west for

6 urgent care?

7 MR. MILLER: No, they hadn't at

8 this point, no.

9 MR. FENSTER: My name is Matt

10 Fenster with Paragon. I'm the managing agent

11 for Affiliated Investors who owns Premier

12 Medical.

13 CHAIRMAN IBE: Sir, could you

14 please spell your name for the record.

15 MR. FENSTER: F, as in Frank,

16 e-n-s-t-e-r.

17 CHAIRMAN IBE: Can you raise your

18 right hand and be sworn in first.

19 MS. KRIEGER: In Case No. 12-027,

20 44000 Twelve Mile Road, do you swear to tell

21 the truth in this case?

22 MR. FENSTER: Yes, I do.

23 With regard to the signs for

24 Premier Medical, we had talked about, you

25 know, changing that.



1 It's a physician owned

2 building. I support their feeling on this,

3 that they have built some equity in that

4 name, their patients know how to find the

5 building. It's known as Premier Medical in

6 the community, so having Premier on the

7 building is important to them.

8 Additionally, we feel it's

9 important to have the urgent care on there

10 because it's really kind of serving a service

11 to the community by providing these types of

12 services.

13 I think it's important for

14 people to be able to find the building, when

15 they need to, for those types of services.

16 MS. KRIEGER: So for an urgent

17 care, compared to an emergency room, what do

18 they have available that somebody sees urgent

19 care that they're going to stop?

20 MR. FENSTER: Well, the concept for

21 urgent care is to take a lot of the

22 non-emergency cases outside of the emergency

23 room, where a lot of people go to emergency

24 rooms, that don't have an emergency.

25 The urgent care fills that



1 need. Emergency rooms are meant for people

2 in a true dire emergency.

3 MS. KRIEGER: Because I was

4 thinking about it. It is important to show

5 that you're an urgent care, but I agree with

6 the previous two speakers that with the

7 signage already approved, that those two

8 signs could be re-accommodated to show what

9 your desiring versus having two extra signs.

10 That's all my questions.

11 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you, Member

12 Krieger.

13 Just a quick comment. I

14 think, sir, the point you just made, pretty

15 much contradicts what the gentleman is trying

16 to do and actually helps the position that

17 the members have already espoused here.

18 Premier Medical, like you

19 said, is something that is known by everyone.

20 It's something that the physicians who own

21 the building feel that everybody is already

22 aware of.

23 So it's easy to say, if you

24 want to find the urgent care, just look for

25 Premier Medical. So you make the case very



1 easy for me to be against what you're really

2 asking for.

3 Unfortunately, that was the

4 best argument that could have been made by us

5 here, but you made that for us.

6 MR. FENSTER: I don't think so.

7 Because it's a medical building, but not

8 every medical building has urgent care in it.

9 The Keystone building down the

10 street does not have urgent care in it. So

11 someone says, Keystone Medical, they should

12 not go there in the evening, if they have an

13 issue, they should go to Premier. And the

14 only way they will know that is that because

15 of the urgent care signage.

16 CHAIRMAN IBE: You do have -- the

17 current sign that you have right now has

18 urgent care on it.

19 MR. FENSTER: Correct.

20 CHAIRMAN IBE: Because I have been

21 there quite a few times. I really don't go

22 looking for it in the City of Novi because I

23 know exactly where it's located.

24 So it's very easy to find. I

25 know to look for the Premier medical



1 building, I know where the urgent care is

2 located on Twelve Mile.

3 There is only one urgent care

4 on Twelve Mile, is that correct, sir? In the

5 City of Novi, will you agree --

6 MR. FENSTER: I don't know. I

7 think you're correct, but I don't know 100

8 percent.

9 CHAIRMAN IBE: There is just one

10 because I know that for a fact, so it's very

11 easy to find the place.

12 It is only -- if you are

13 looking for Chase bank, you drive down the

14 street looking for Chase bank, but most

15 people that go to urgent care, would you

16 agree that when they go to an urgent care it

17 is because they need -- they have a need to

18 go there.

19 So certainly they would have

20 looked up the address before leaving the

21 home.

22 MR. FENSTER: Yes, but it makes it

23 that much easier, you know, when you're a

24 parent with a sick child, and -- it just

25 helps them find the building that much



1 easier.

2 CHAIRMAN IBE: Very well. Thank

3 you very much, sir.

4 MR. MILLER: Could I add something

5 to that?

6 CHAIRMAN IBE: Unfortunately, sir,

7 there is no question on the table right now.

8 Thank you very much, sir. I appreciate your


10 Do we have any additional

11 questions or comments from the board?

12 (No audible responses.)

13 CHAIRMAN IBE: Seeing none, I will

14 entertain a motion, please.

15 MR. GEDEON: In Case 12-028, for

16 43263 Crescent Boulevard --


18 MR. GEDEON: I'm sorry. In Case

19 12-027, 44000 Twelve Mile Road, I move to

20 deny the requested variance, specifically the

21 request is not based upon circumstances or

22 features that are exceptional and unique to

23 the property, and merely result from

24 conditions that exist generally in the city.

25 The failure to grant relief



1 will not unreasonably prevent or limit the

2 use of the property, and will result in

3 nothing more than a mere inconvenience or

4 inability to obtain a higher economic

5 financial return.

6 Additionally, the specific

7 sign text of urgent care is already listed on

8 the existing ground sign.

9 The grant of relief would be

10 inconsistent with the spirit of the

11 ordinance.

12 MR. GHANNAM: Second.

13 CHAIRMAN IBE: Seeing a motion and

14 a second, do we have any further conversation

15 regarding this case?

16 (No audible responses.)

17 CHAIRMAN IBE: Seeing none, can you

18 please call the roll.

19 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Gedeon?

20 MR. GEDEON: Yes.

21 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Ghannam?

22 MR. GHANNAM: Yes.

23 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Chairman Ibe?


25 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Krieger?




2 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Sanghvi?


4 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Skelcy?

5 MS. SKELCY: Yes.

6 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Motion passes six

7 to zero.

8 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you, sir.

9 Good luck.

10 Move on to Case No. 12-028,

11 43263 Crescent Boulevard. Will the applicant

12 come to the podium, state your full name and

13 spell your last name for the record.

14 If you're not an attorney,

15 please raise your right hand be sworn in by

16 our secretary. Thank you.

17 MR. DETERS: Good evening. I'm

18 John Deters, D-e-t-e-r-s, from Metro Detroit

19 Signs, 23544 Hoover Road, in Warren. With is

20 me Mr. Pitts from Casual Male Retail Group.

21 MR. PITTS: Good evening. My name

22 is Dan Pitts. I'm with Casual Male Retail

23 Group. The home office address is 555

24 Turnpike Street, in Canton, Massachusetts. I

25 am the vice president of store planning.



1 Last name is spelled P-i-t-t-s.

2 MS. KRIEGER: Are either of you

3 attorneys?


5 MR. PITTS: No.

6 MS. KRIEGER: In Case No. 12-028

7 for 43263 Crescent Boulevard, do you both

8 swear to tell the truth in this case?

9 MR. PITTS: I do.

10 MR. DETERS: I do.

11 DXL Mens Apparel is moving

12 into a new area in the mall, and they have

13 asked for two signs.

14 The first has been approved,

15 and the request today is for a variance to

16 approve the second one.

17 The first one is in the front

18 of the store, facing the parking lot, the

19 interior part of the mall. The second one is

20 on the direct -- is directly behind it in the

21 back of the store, facing the loop road that

22 runs around the north side of the mall.

23 DXL is asking for this

24 variance because of the lack of

25 identification, there is nothing on the back,



1 which also is a door, for customers, just as

2 the front.

3 So for that reason, the

4 company is asking for this approval of the

5 second sign.

6 Mr. Pitts has a few other

7 words that he'd like to say about in support

8 of the request.

9 MR. PITTS: Good evening. As John

10 had referenced, we specifically have

11 structured the footprint of this particular

12 space so that we have two entrances, one in

13 the front facing the inside of the shopping

14 center. The second one will face Crescent

15 Road, and we did that primarily for visibilty

16 and also to create an opportunity for a

17 second sign.

18 We are working with Simon, the

19 developer, on creating a facia. There are

20 presently two columns that stand as recessed

21 entry under the clock tower. We will be

22 creating a bridging facia working with the

23 original architects of the shopping center,

24 that will be brought forward to create a

25 better visibility situation.



1 The dimensions of that facia,

2 that enhancement, it's approximately six foot

3 six tall, the facia condition that you're

4 looking at is approximately 19 feet wide.

5 Part of the reason why we have

6 suggested the sign, the size sign that we

7 have proposed architecturally, the

8 proportions of that enhancement seems to call

9 for -- in our opinion, it seems to call for a

10 sign larger than the -- I believe the 24

11 square foot limit. That 24 square feet, the

12 sign would be basically 27 inches tall by

13 four feet wide. So it would be very a small

14 postage stamp within that overall

15 architectural condition that we are creating.

16 It should be mentioned --

17 actually I'd like to mention, we presently do

18 have a store called Casual Male XL. Casual

19 Male XL is owned and operated by Casual Male

20 Retail Group, as I said, based in Canton,

21 Massachusetts. We have presently 400 stores.

22 We are converting the chain to a new concept,

23 a new superstore concept.

24 Novi is one of the towns that

25 in 2012 that we -- one of the 35 locations



1 that we are converting. Over the next three

2 years we will have converted the entire

3 chain. By the end of this year, we will have

4 50 destination XL stores.

5 I think the -- again, the

6 important points we feel is we are going to

7 have a second entrance on this side of the

8 building. That's why we are petitioning for

9 a second sign.

10 Also just based on the

11 architecture of the rear of the building,

12 underneath the clock tower, we are developing

13 that facia to, again working with the

14 existing architects, we feel that the size

15 sign we are asking for is proportionately

16 appropriate based on the architectural

17 conditions we are creating. Thank you.

18 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you.

19 Is there anybody in the

20 audience who would like to make a comment

21 regarding this particular case, please raise

22 your hand.

23 (No audible responses.)

24 CHAIRMAN IBE: Well, seeing none, I

25 will ask our secretary to read into the



1 record any correspondence received.

2 MS. KRIEGER: In Case No. 12-028,

3 175 were emailed, 42 returned, zero

4 responses.

5 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you. I will

6 now turn to the city for any comment they may

7 have regarding this particular case.

8 MS. SAARELA: I have none.

9 MR. BOULARD: Just as a point of

10 reference, the sign on the front of the

11 building is within -- the proposed sign on

12 the front of the building is within the size

13 allowed by the ordinance.

14 This is the request for the

15 second sign on the rear. As mentioned, in

16 this type of report, there was a previous

17 variance from a number of years ago that

18 allowed a rear sign of 54 square feet. This

19 request is a nominal two square feet bigger,

20 at 56.

21 But the condition of the

22 variance at that time, that there could be no

23 additional signs on the back, so hence the

24 petitioners are back before you. Thank you.

25 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you so much,



1 Mr. Boulard.

2 I will now open it up for

3 discussion among the board. Yes, Member

4 Sanghvi.

5 MR. SANGHVI: The entire

6 configuration of the Town Center has changed,

7 with the changed layout. It is very hard to

8 know which is the front and which is the back

9 in this particular case. And they do need to

10 have some kind of identification of this

11 business on both sides, especially on the

12 street side.

13 So I have no problem

14 supporting this application. Thank you.

15 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you, sir. Do

16 we have any further comments? Questions?

17 Yes.

18 MR. GHANNAM: I agree also given

19 the nature and the configuration of this

20 particular building. Also ordinarily I

21 wouldn't approve, or at least be in favor of

22 a sign that large, but I think your argument

23 is -- seems to be accurate in that, I mean,

24 it was built for that in a sense. If you

25 didn't have something, it would look -- you



1 know, that size, it would be unusual. If you

2 had no sign at all, it would also look pretty

3 unusual. So I think under the circumstances,

4 I would approve this.

5 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you. Do we

6 have any further comments or questions?

7 MS. KRIEGER: I do have a question.

8 Regarding the DXL, when I first drove by, I

9 was thinking it was going to be recessed like

10 that, how was anybody driving by going to see

11 it, but from the expressway, you can see it

12 look structurally -- I agree that it is

13 proportional. And because of the

14 configuration, I agree with the previous

15 speaker, that the mall is different now, that

16 it would need additional signage.

17 I was wondering though because

18 of windows, different stores with

19 different -- would the windows have signage

20 in them as well or how would they be

21 decorated?

22 MR. PITTS: Typically our -- the

23 perimeter windows of our store would either

24 have mannequin displays, lifestyle display.

25 Sometimes it's a combination of props and



1 layered -- sometimes there are layered

2 graphics that are three and four feet back

3 from the actual line of the glass.

4 I'd have to really take a look

5 at the floor plan of this particular store

6 because the way it's configured and the way

7 the Simon Group is subdividing the space, the

8 windows on the left-hand side will not be our

9 windows. That's a separate tenancy.

10 We are actually -- our primary

11 frontage is facing inside of the mall, but we

12 have kind of a continual -- basically a wide

13 swathe of the store that will lead to that

14 entrance directly under the clock tower.

15 That will definitely be an entrance right

16 into the sales area of the store.

17 So we don't have all those

18 windows, I guess, really is what I'm trying

19 to -- is my response to the question.

20 So in this particular case,

21 I'm not sure how those windows will be

22 decorated by the tenants who ultimately do

23 lease those spaces, that flank that entrance,

24 that flank the entrance underneath the clock

25 tower.



1 MS. KRIEGER: Thank you.

2 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you. Any

3 additional questions or comments?

4 (No audible responses.)

5 Seeing none, I will entertain

6 a motion.

7 CHAIRMAN IBE: Yes, Member Krieger.

8 MS. KRIEGER: In Case No. 12-028,

9 43263 Crescent Boulevard, I move to approve

10 the request for one additional sign for this

11 petitioner.

12 That the request is based upon

13 circumstances that are unique and exceptional

14 to this property.

15 The mall is being regenerated

16 and has new drives, which makes some

17 buildings have two frontages and that these

18 conditions generally are existing in the

19 city.

20 The failure to grant relief

21 will unreasonably prevent or limit the use of

22 the property and will result in substantially

23 more than mere inconvenience or inability to

24 attain a higher economic or financial return.

25 The grant of the relief will



1 not result in a use of structure that is

2 incompatible with or unreasonably interferes

3 with the adjacent or surrounding properties

4 and it is compatible to other businesses in

5 the area, and will result in substantial

6 justice being done to the applicant and

7 surrounding properties and is not

8 inconsistent with the spirit of the

9 ordinance.

10 MR. SANGHVI: Second.

11 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you. Seeing

12 that a motion has been made and seconded, do

13 we have any need for further comments

14 regarding the case?

15 (No audible responses.)

16 CHAIRMAN IBE: Seeing none, please

17 call the roll.

18 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Gedeon?

19 MR. GEDEON: Yes.

20 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Ghannam?

21 MR. GHANNAM: Yes.

22 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Chairman Ibe?


24 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Krieger?

25 MS. KRIEGER: Yes.



1 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Sanghvi?


3 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Skelcy?

4 MS. SKELCY: Yes.

5 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Motion passes six

6 to zero.

7 CHAIRMAN IBE: Congratulations,

8 sir.

9 MR. PITTS: Thank you very much.

10 CHAIRMAN IBE: We now go to Case

11 No. 12-029, 24951 Portsmouth. Will the

12 applicant please come to the podium. Please

13 state your full name address. Also, spell

14 your last name for the record.

15 If you're not an attorney,

16 please raise your right hand and be sworn in.

17 MR. BRONZOVICH: My name is Tony

18 Bronzovich, it's B, like boy, r-o-n-z, like

19 zebra, o-v, like Victor, i-c-h from Epiphany

20 Kitchens, 107 North Center Street,

21 Northville, Michigan.

22 MS. KRIEGER: In Case. No. 12-029,

23 for 42951 Portsmouth, do you swear to tell

24 the truth in this case?

25 MR. BRONZOVICH: Yes, I do.



1 What we are looking to do is

2 do an addition to their home, to enlarge

3 their kitchen eating space.

4 They have a corner lot right

5 now on Portsmouth. The variance -- excuse

6 me, the code is for 30 feet of a setback and

7 we are looking for a 25 and a half foot

8 setback, we are going to do four and a half

9 foot addition.

10 What we were looking to do is

11 Mr. and Mr. Moore are planning on retiring in

12 that home and they really enjoy the

13 community.

14 They feel that the kitchen is

15 getting to the point of needing remodeling

16 and we are looking to make it for their

17 future and not just for right now.

18 What they have found is as

19 their family is growing and their life is

20 changing, they need more space for people.

21 They need larger walkways to accommodate

22 relatives that are handicapped and just stuff

23 for them as they get older.

24 What the plan will do is allow

25 us to create a more ergonomic configuration



1 so they can get through the kitchen easier,

2 open up walkways, put things like wall ovens

3 where it is easier to reach things when you

4 get older.

5 Again, just make it useful

6 space for them and a more functional space as

7 they age in the home.

8 We did do a survey of the

9 neighbors in the area, I believe, was part of

10 the packet. We had five of the neighbors

11 around the corner did approve the look.

12 We did talk to the

13 neighborhood -- the homeowners association

14 which also gave us a letter of recommendation

15 on that.

16 I have that here because they

17 met after the deadline to turn everything in.

18 Can I approach?


20 MR. BRONZOVICH: I guess that is my

21 case.

22 CHAIRMAN IBE: Well, thank you. Is

23 there anybody in the public who would like to

24 make a comment regarding this particular

25 case, please raise your hand.



1 (No audible responses.)

2 CHAIRMAN IBE: Seeing none, I will

3 ask our secretary to read into the record any

4 correspondence.

5 MS. KRIEGER: In Case No. 12-029,

6 26 were emailed, zero returned, one approval

7 and it's from Duane and Lillian Zalinski and

8 they circled approval. We have no underlying

9 objection to this requested variance.

10 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you. I would

11 now turn to the city for any comment that

12 they have regarding this case.

13 MS. SAARELA: I have none.

14 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you.

15 MR. BOULARD: Stand by for

16 questions. Thank you.

17 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you. I will

18 now open it up to the board for discussion.

19 Yes.

20 MS. KRIEGER: Should I read into

21 the minutes the petition that was -- put in

22 our packet?

23 CHAIRMAN IBE: Is that something

24 that was received --

25 MS. KRIEGER: Yes.




2 MS. KRIEGER: From the neighbors.

3 "I acknowledge that I have

4 viewed the plans for the six foot bump out to

5 the Moore residence at 24951 Portsmouth

6 Avenue in Novi. I would like the City of

7 Novi to know they have my full support for

8 this project." The first one is from

9 Lorne Purslow on Portsmouth.

10 The second one is from Bridget

11 Rouhan on Portsmouth. The next one is

12 from --

13 MR. SANGHVI: Would you like me to

14 read it?

15 MS. KRIEGER: Yes, please.

16 MR. SANGHVI: Nenkataramana Kongara

17 from White Plains Drive.

18 MS. KRIEGER: Jim Morris on

19 Portsmouth and --

20 MR. SANGHVI: Rajwinder Kaur from

21 Portsmouth Avenue.

22 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you. We will

23 make sure to provide this to our reporter so

24 we can get the correct spellings of those

25 names. Thank you.



1 I will now open it up to the

2 board for discussion. Anyone have any

3 questions or comments?

4 MR. SANGHVI: Actually I was there

5 this afternoon and I saw your property. And

6 it's a very good idea. I have no problem

7 with supporting your application. On a

8 corner lot it is very hard to know which is

9 the front and which is the back and which is

10 the side.

11 What you are proposing is not

12 going to affect anybody and it is good for

13 you. I'm sure it's good for everybody else.

14 Thank you.

15 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you, Member

16 Sanghvi.

17 MR. GHANNAM: I also agree with

18 him, because it is a double frontage lot and

19 it seems that your neighbors don't have a

20 problem and it was approved by your

21 homeowners association, to me lends support

22 to your request.

23 You did your homework before

24 you came in here. That's what we like to

25 see, just to make sure there is no issues



1 with anybody. Sometimes when people come in,

2 they alert us to things that we don't think

3 about.

4 I have no problems supporting

5 this.

6 MR. BRONZOVICH: Thank you, sir.

7 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you.

8 Any additional comments or

9 questions?

10 MR. SANGHVI: Make a motion.

11 CHAIRMAN IBE: Seeing no other

12 conversations, I will entertain a motion.

13 Madam Krieger.

14 MS. KRIEGER: In Case No. 12-029

15 for 24951 Portsmouth, I move to approve the

16 request, that there are unique circumstances

17 and physical conditions of the property such

18 as narrowness, shallowness, shape, water,

19 topography or similar physical conditions,

20 and the need for the variance is not due to

21 the applicant's personal or economic

22 difficulty, that their house has two

23 frontages, from two streets. It's not

24 self-created.

25 That strict compliance with



1 regulations governing area setback, frontage,

2 height, bulk, density or other dimensional

3 requirements will unreasonably prevent the

4 property owner from using the property for a

5 permitted purpose or will render conformity

6 with those regulations unnecessarily

7 burdensome.

8 That they spoke with their

9 neighbors and the homeowners association.

10 And the requested variance is the minimum

11 variance necessary to do substantial justice

12 to the applicant as well as to other

13 properties in the district and that it is

14 very nice to want to stay in your home.

15 And the requested variance

16 will not cause an adverse impact on

17 surrounding property values or the use and

18 enjoyment of the property in the neighborhood

19 of zoning district.

20 MR. GHANNAM: Second.

21 CHAIRMAN IBE: Seeing a motion has

22 been made and seconded, do we have any

23 further conversation?

24 (No audible responses.)

25 CHAIRMAN IBE: Seeing none, please



1 call the roll.

2 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Gedeon?

3 MR. GEDEON: Yes.

4 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Ghannam?


6 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Chairman Ibe?


8 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Krieger?


10 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Sanghvi?

11 MR. SANGHVI: Yes.

12 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Skelcy?

13 MS. SKELCY: Yes.

14 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Motion passes six

15 to zero.

16 MR. BRONZOVICH: Thank you very

17 much.

18 CHAIRMAN IBE: Congratulations,

19 sir.

20 That brings us to our last

21 case for today. Case No. 12-030, 1409 East

22 Lake Drive.

23 Will the applicant please come

24 to the podium, state your full name for the

25 record as well as your address and please --



1 MR. BROOKE: Jeffrey Brooke,

2 J-e-f-f-r-e-y, B-r-o-o-k-e, 1409 East Lake

3 Drive.

4 MS. KRIEGER: Are you an attorney?

5 MR. BROOKE: No, I am not.

6 MS. KRIEGER: In Case No. 12-030,

7 for 1409 East Lake Drive, do you swear to

8 tell the truth in this case?

9 MR. BROOKE: I do.

10 MS. KRIEGER: Thank you.

11 MR. BROOKE: I'm not sure if

12 anybody had a chance to go my house, but if

13 you're driving past from the road, it looks

14 bigger than it actually is.

15 We have -- we have a, you

16 know, a garage right on the main floor,

17 between that and the stairs it takes up 60

18 percent of the main area. Then upstairs we

19 have 850 square feet. So the four of us it's

20 kind of limited.

21 Not just that, but when they

22 built the place, the main beam that carries

23 the load through the garage is too small, so

24 they had to put a post in the middle of the

25 garage.



1 So I have been there -- my

2 wife bought the place 14 years ago. I have

3 been living there with her for 12 years, I

4 have never been able to park in the garage.

5 So this is what precipitated all of this.

6 She parks her Honda, we have a

7 piece of carpet right against the post so she

8 can get her car in there.

9 So we decided we'd ask the

10 neighbors if they would be adverse to us

11 putting a garage between the two houses -- or

12 a driveway between the two houses and a

13 garage in the back. Nobody objected.

14 Everybody was good with it.

15 We went before the

16 construction board, they came and looked at

17 it. There is no problem whatsoever.

18 The whole idea being that we

19 are going to turn the existing garage into a

20 family room so that we'd have more space

21 because it's pretty limited.

22 Then we would both be able to

23 park our cars in the back.

24 The idea behind the variance

25 on the side and the back being that if we



1 could move the garage back a little bit, we

2 could drive it and it would enable us to back

3 out and drive out the driveway for safety

4 concerns. We don't want to be backing out

5 the driveway itself. That was the objective

6 behind.

7 Right behind the house itself

8 is a lot. It's a double lot, 60 by 120. The

9 gentleman who owns it, has no problem with us

10 putting a garage in there, looking for the

11 four foot variances. His building that he

12 will build there potentially is not going to

13 be anywhere near where we are at.

14 None of the neighbors seem to

15 have any issue with it whatsoever.

16 I know that the total lot

17 coverage was approximately 1 percent over

18 what the allowance is, and I actually have an

19 issue with the paperwork, as it is,

20 (inaudible). They said it was 41 percent of

21 the backyard. But it actually comes in at

22 25.5 percent.

23 I did the calculations, if you

24 want it here. I don't know if you want to

25 look at it.



1 But that was the goal. We

2 have a very small home. We'd like to able to

3 drive into the garage in the backyard, be

4 able to back out. I went and calculated the

5 turn radius of my van, so that I could be

6 assured that I could do that, and with the

7 two foot of extra space, I can get in the

8 garage, back up and drive out the driveway.

9 That's the objective there.

10 And obviously for both of us to be able park

11 in the garage and have a family room and some

12 space because the house itself is very, very.

13 That's it.

14 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you, sir.

15 Is there anyone in the

16 audience who would like to make a comment

17 regarding this particular case, please raise

18 your hand.

19 (No audible responses.)

20 CHAIRMAN IBE: Seeing none, I will

21 ask our secretary to read into the record any

22 correspondence.

23 MS. KRIEGER: In Case No. 12-030,

24 77 were mailed, 11 returned, five approvals,

25 zero objections.



1 The first one is from Alana

2 Erb on the East Side Lake Drive, she

3 approves. She just circled the approval.

4 The next one is the same

5 thing, circled approved from Margaret

6 Rapnicki.

7 The third one is approval

8 circled from Carl Sheppi. "In my opinion,

9 the detached garage will improve the

10 property, therefore, increasing the value and

11 value of adjacent properties."

12 The fourth one is approval

13 circled. "We approve of all requested

14 variances to allow construction of the

15 attached garage at 1409 East Lake. Because

16 of the small lot sizes, many residents,

17 including myself, have successfully

18 petitioned the zoning boards for relief.

19 Thank you." From Drew and Sue Soborowski.

20 That's it.

21 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you, Member

22 Krieger.

23 We will now turn to the city

24 for any comment they may have on this case.

25 MS. SAARELA: I have none.



1 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you.

2 MR. BOULARD: Point of

3 clarification, if I could.

4 The reason when we calculated

5 the coverage for the rear yard, the maximum

6 allowed in the code is for the required rear

7 yard, not the actual rear yard.

8 So when we looked at the area

9 of the rear yard, we used just the rear

10 35 feet of that. That's why the number came

11 out differently in the report.

12 MR. BROOKE: I was confused. I

13 measured it all out and I calculated it and

14 it just didn't make sense to me.

15 MR. BOULARD: It's just the last

16 35 feet of it. That's why the number came

17 out differently.

18 One question, if I could.

19 Unless I'm mistaken, a 22 by 24-foot garage

20 would comply with all the requirements. If

21 it was 22 foot by 24 feet, 528 feet, we would

22 get you the rear setbacks and so on, but

23 obviously -- what you're asking for is

24 slightly larger than that -- well, quite a

25 bit larger than that. So I wondered if you



1 could kind of walk us through that.

2 MR. BROOKE: The goal being to park

3 both cars, and then with a little bit extra

4 room, I would be in compliance with some

5 added trusses. I know that they have to be

6 14 foot at the median of the attic truss,

7 which means that I need some space to put a

8 set of stairs up there, and then I would add

9 some storage space up top.

10 So I mean, I store stuff in

11 the attic all the time. I'm storing it on

12 the stairs. We live right on the lake, you

13 know, we have got stuff everywhere. It's

14 extremely difficult.

15 And you know, to be honest

16 with you, my kids, their friends don't come

17 over in the winter, they go to other kids'

18 places because is there is nowhere to play.

19 So the family room is going to

20 solve that, then be able to have storage,

21 whatnot inside, and have nice set of stairs,

22 get your cars in, have a little bit of room

23 to store a couple things. Then have the

24 stairs go up and have some attic space.

25 Just would be a good facility



1 for us. The house is really small. It's 850

2 square foot footprint on a double lot. Most

3 people have, you know, bigger footprint than

4 that on a single lot. That's why.

5 And we have the lot across, as

6 you can see, from the paperwork.

7 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you,

8 Mr. Boulard.

9 I will now open it up to the

10 board for discussion. Yes, Member Sanghvi.

11 MR. SANGHVI: Thank you. Question,

12 sir, how big is your house?

13 MR. BROOKE: Total living area?

14 MR. SANGHVI: Living area, yeah.

15 MR. BROOKE: I would say it's 1,200

16 some square feet, 1,300 square feet.

17 MR. SANGHVI: And the new garage

18 that you are trying to propose to do is how

19 big?

20 MR. BROOKE: It's 850 square feet

21 in the backyard. So we would take the

22 existing garage, which is 18 by 20 and make

23 that a family room. So I mean, we would end

24 up with, you know, 1,600 square feet, 1,700

25 square feet.



1 MR. SANGHVI: What I'm trying to

2 say, do you think it is proportionate to the

3 size of the living area, your garage?

4 MR. BROOKE: I think it is. I

5 think it will work out well because we are on

6 a double lot. The garage will not be, you

7 know, too large.

8 As you say, the backyard

9 itself, you're only taking the first 35 feet,

10 but there is another -- it's 50 some feet

11 from the back of the house to the lot line,

12 by 60. It's a large, large area.

13 MR. SANGHVI: Thank you.

14 CHAIRMAN IBE: Member Skelcy?

15 MS. SKELCY: Do you have a basement

16 in the house?

17 MR. BROOKE: No.

18 MS. SKELCY: Thank you.

19 CHAIRMAN IBE: Yes, Member Ghannam.

20 MR. GHANNAM: We have had a number

21 over the years, at least since I have been

22 here, of houses on the lake that have

23 requested garages.

24 I understand how you explained

25 it where you have an existing garage, but



1 realistically you can't use it.

2 So to me it does make sense

3 what you're doing, you're converting that to

4 living space, and adding a two-car garage

5 with some extra space.

6 Generally I have no problem

7 with that. My always concern is like safety

8 issues with the fire marshal. Is this

9 something they would input in, if there was

10 an issue with it?

11 MR. BOULARD: The building code

12 would require ratings on the exterior wall,

13 so the garage, those facing the property

14 lines, as they get closer to the property

15 line, the rating would increase, to decrease

16 the likelihood of a fire in the garage

17 impacting any neighboring properties.

18 MR. GHANNAM: So, I mean, given

19 those safety precautions that you would be

20 required to take anyway, I would have no

21 problem with this request.

22 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you. Yes,

23 Member Krieger.

24 MS. KRIEGER: I guess just to

25 clarify. There is the big tree on the one



1 side so the driveway would go around the

2 other side?

3 MR. BROOKE: Yes, on the left.

4 MS. KRIEGER: Okay. Thank you.

5 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you, Member

6 Krieger.

7 Do we have any other comments

8 or questions?

9 (No audible responses.)

10 CHAIRMAN IBE: Seeing none, I will

11 entertain a motion. Yes.

12 MR. GHANNAM: I will make a motion

13 in Case. No. 12-030, for 1409 East Lake

14 Drive, move to grant the petition as

15 requested.

16 There are unique circumstances

17 and conditions of the property, such as the

18 narrowness, shallowness, shape, water,

19 topography and similar conditions. And the

20 need for the variance is not due to the

21 applicant's personal or economic difficulty.

22 The need is certainly not

23 self-created. Strict compliance with

24 regulations such as setback, frontage, height

25 and so forth, would unreasonably prevent that



1 property owner from using the property for a

2 permitted purpose.

3 The requested variance is the

4 minimum variance necessary to do substantial

5 justice to the applicant and the other

6 property owners in the district. And the

7 requested variance will not cause adverse

8 impact on surrounding property values or the

9 use and enjoyment of the property

10 neighborhood or zoning district.

11 MS. KRIEGER: Second.

12 CHAIRMAN IBE: Seeing that a motion

13 has been made and seconded, do we have any

14 further conversation regarding this motion?

15 (No audible responses.)

16 CHAIRMAN IBE: Seeing none, please

17 call the roll.

18 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Gedeon?

19 MR. GEDEON: Yes.

20 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Ghannam?

21 MR. GHANNAM: Yes.

22 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Chairman Ibe?


24 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Krieger?

25 MS. KRIEGER: Yes. yes.



1 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Sanghvi?


3 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Skelcy?

4 MS. SKELCY: Yes.

5 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Motion passes six

6 to zero.

7 MR. BROOKE: Thank you.

8 CHAIRMAN IBE: Congratulations.

9 We are now going to go to

10 other matters on the agenda. Do we have any

11 other matters that need to be addressed by

12 the board?

13 MS. KRIEGER: Mr. Valenti at the

14 end of the meeting wanted to have something

15 to say.

16 CHAIRMAN IBE: Yes, Mr. Valenti.

17 MR. VALENTI: Thank you for your

18 indulgence. It's related to a temporary for

19 rent sign that I'm trying to place.

20 I had placed the sign and an

21 ordinance officer asked me to move it to the

22 other side of the street. This is Twelve

23 Mile, M5, Summit Drive. I have a map.

24 In order to comply with the

25 ordinance, this sign would not be visible.



1 Then, further investigation,

2 was told it would take until September to get

3 on the agenda, and I'm not sure -- my request

4 was for some advice because I'm asking for

5 some relief in the fact that it would appear

6 that a variance would be logical because you

7 could not see the sign.

8 Part of this is because of the

9 property lines that were redrawn because our

10 home was condemned due to the Haggerty

11 connector road that was built, and the new

12 setbacks.

13 And I'm asking to be able to

14 place the sign or some guidance as to how I

15 might expedite.

16 Otherwise, the home had been

17 rented for the last five years, it would be a

18 temporary sign. I expect to -- you know, to

19 rent again. But my renter is leaving at the

20 end of this month, and again, I had posted

21 the sign and an ordinance officer had told me

22 that it was compliant, only now finding today

23 through many phone calls through the city

24 where I stand is that again, if it meets

25 the -- if I placed it within the ordinance,



1 the sign would not visible. I have a map

2 here just to clarify that.

3 I guess, I don't understand if

4 it's appropriate of an interim variance or

5 something. Given the circumstances, and I'm

6 a 50 year resident of the city, former parks

7 and rec commissioner.

8 I'd like some guidance as to

9 what might be a logical answer to my dilemma.

10 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you,

11 Mr. Valenti. I will refer the question to

12 Mr. Boulard here.

13 MR. BOULARD: Just one question

14 before I go any further. Is the proposal

15 location, is it on your property or in the

16 public right-of-way?

17 MR. VALENTI: It would be in the

18 public right-of-way because the setback would

19 be in the woodlands area.

20 What it requires is from the

21 property line, the setback, I think is like

22 36 feet from Twelve Mile on one side and 56

23 on another.

24 The ordinance officer asked me

25 to move it because it was in the oncoming



1 right-of-way of Twelve Mile westbound, to the

2 west side of Summit Drive, which isn't a

3 visual obstruction for traffic.

4 Again, it's a temporary sign,

5 two by three foot for rent sign. I don't

6 know if that answers your question.

7 MR. GEDEON: Does your property

8 afront more than one road?

9 MR. VALENTI: Yes. The property is

10 the corner of Summit Drive and Twelve Mile.

11 MR. GEDEON: Is there

12 availability -- is it because you want the

13 more visibilty on Twelve Mile, is that the

14 issue?

15 MR. VALENTI: It would be both.

16 And to use the setback on Summit Drive

17 because of the relocation of Summit Drive due

18 to the Haggerty connector road, there is a

19 six-inch gas main, so the property line is

20 actually at the very peak of the hill. So

21 half way between the house and property line,

22 would drop the sign behind and would not be

23 visible from the street either.

24 So I think in both cases, I

25 don't have a choice.



1 MR. BOULARD: Sir, if I may, you

2 said you had a map. Could you put it on the

3 overhead?

4 MR. VALENTI: Absolutely. I have

5 two because I couldn't get them all on the

6 same one at the library. Let me show you the

7 Twelve Mile frontage here. As you can see,

8 this is north, going up. This is the

9 frontage of the house there. This is the

10 property line here, approximately, and then

11 as the ordinance reads, it would be half way

12 between the property line and the home, which

13 would be right here in the middle of the

14 woods.

15 And then the alternate

16 location, showing a little further north, the

17 property line is now here because this is all

18 a six-inch gas main that was required to be

19 outside of the interchange when they built

20 the M5 connector, so the ordinance would read

21 half way between the property line and the

22 home, which I have drawn approximately here.

23 But this is a high point, so

24 this sign would be not visible from the road

25 either. Plus this is a very steep hill, for



1 those who may be familiar with the area of

2 Summit Drive and Twelve Mile.

3 So in either case, the sign

4 would not be visible at all.

5 MR. BOULARD: I guess, if I may, my

6 suggestion would be to work with the

7 ordinance officers to find an acceptable

8 spot. I think they would probably be willing

9 to do that. Realizing that, you know, you've

10 got some particulars to the site. I believe

11 it would be outside the purview of the board

12 to grant you a variance for a sign in the

13 right-of-way, in the public right-of-way.

14 Just my thought. I think

15 you'll probably find, it's probably not going

16 to be, you know, right out on the main road

17 there. Maybe there is an area at the edge of

18 the property that would be clear that --

19 MR. VALENTI: I guess that's what I

20 was hopeful, right at the edge where the

21 forest begins, that the sign would be back

22 right at that particular place, so it would

23 not be a hinderance to traffic or anything,

24 and a temporary two by three foot sign.

25 MR. BOULARD: I guess I would



1 suggest that if the sign -- if there is a

2 location that we can look at outside of the

3 right-of-way that we could work with the

4 ordinance folks to give you as much visibilty

5 as possible without moving the sign out in

6 the public right-of-way. That would be my

7 suggestion.

8 MR. VALENTI: I guess just to

9 clarify. Anything outside of the

10 right-of-way would not be visible because of

11 the -- I guess the hardship that was created

12 by the new lines that were drawn due to the

13 M5 property condemnation, the taking of the

14 property and the lines that were left

15 following that.

16 MR. BOULARD: I guess I think there

17 may be a spot, it may not be the ideal,

18 visible from all directions.

19 I mean, the frontage of the

20 house is -- the primary frontage is actually

21 on Summit Drive. But the board can't grant a

22 variance without having the proper

23 advertisement and notice for the public and

24 your neighbors and so on.

25 Then there would still be the



1 issue of the right-of-way -- the public

2 right-of-way, we would have to deal with the

3 insurance and liability and so on with the

4 Department of Public Services.

5 So I don't believe it would be

6 appropriate for the board to act tonight.

7 MR. VALENTI: I understand. I'm

8 not asking for that. I mentioned that

9 interim variance, which was a creative

10 suggestion by someone.

11 I guess my question though is

12 that I spent a lot of time today, everyone

13 was sending me back to the other part of the

14 city. And I went back and forth through

15 ordinance officers, zoning, engineering.

16 And I guess -- then I found

17 out that there was a meeting tonight, and I

18 also that if I didn't get some kind of

19 guidance, that I was looking at September.

20 I think it's a very unique

21 circumstance, and I guess if I could meet

22 with someone perhaps to talk about some

23 possible avenues of what I need to do because

24 I'm willing to do whatever is necessary.

25 The only thing is, I went on



1 the word of the ordinance officer that I was

2 okay. I would have started this two months

3 ago, trust me.

4 MR. BOULARD: I won't be in the

5 office tomorrow, but I would be happy to meet

6 with you the day after to assist you.

7 MR. VALENTI: Thursday?

8 MR. BOULARD: Yes, to help any way

9 I can.

10 MR. VALENTI: That's very generous.

11 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you,

12 Mr. Valenti.

13 MR. VALENTI: Did you need my

14 spelling for the record?

15 CHAIRMAN IBE: Yes, if you don't

16 mind, please.

17 MR. VALENTI: V, as in Victor,

18 a-l-e-n-t-i, Nick, 27925 Summit Drive. Thank

19 you.

20 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you. Good

21 luck, sir.

22 MR. SANGHVI: This is a very old

23 issue going back to the building of the M5

24 and the widening of the Twelve Mile and the

25 whole configuration of the area changed many,



1 many years ago. It's all in relation in that

2 area.

3 CHAIRMAN IBE: Do we have any other

4 matters that the board wants to recognize at

5 this time?

6 (No audible response.)

7 CHAIRMAN IBE: Seeing none, can I

8 entertain a motion for an adjournment?

9 MR. SANGHVI: So moved.

10 MS. KRIEGER: Second.

11 CHAIRMAN IBE: All those in favor

12 say aye.

13 THE BOARD: Aye.

14 CHAIRMAN IBE: All those against?

15 (No audible responses.)

16 CHAIRMAN IBE: Seeing none, the

17 meeting is hereby adjourned. Thank you.

18 (The meeting was adjourned at 8:19 p.m.)

19 ** ** **










2 ) ss.


4 I, Jennifer L. Wall, Notary Public within and for the

5 County of Oakland, State of Michigan, do hereby certify that the

6 hearing above, that the statements given by said individuals was

7 stenographically recorded in the presence of myself and others,

8 afterward transcribed by computer under my personal supervision,

9 and that the said statements are a full, true and correct

10 transcript of the statements given by the individuals.

11 I further certify that I am not connected by blood or

12 marriage with any of the parties or their attorneys, and that I

13 am not an employee of any of them, nor financially interested in

14 the action.

15 IN WITNESS THEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand at the

16 City of Walled Lake, County of Oakland, State of Michigan.



19 ________________ _________________________

Date Jennifer L. Wall CSR-4183

20 Oakland County, Michigan

My Commission Expires 11/12/15