REGULAR MEETING - ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
Proceedings had and Testimony taken in the matter of the ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS, at City of Novi, 45175 West Ten Mile Road, Novi, Michigan, on Tuesday, July 10, 2012
1 Novi, Michigan.
2 Tuesday, July 10, 2012
3 7:00 p.m.
4 ** ** **
5 CHAIRMAN IBE: Good evening and
6 welcome to the July 10th, 2012 Zoning Board
7 of Appeals meeting for the City of Novi.
8 Will you all rise for the
9 Pledge of Allegiance.
10 (Pledge of Allegiance was recited.)
11 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you. I will
12 now go over some of the rules for a public
13 hearing, and the format that this meeting
14 will be conducted.
15 Copies of the agenda are in
16 the back of the room for those of you who
17 wish to get a copy and follow today's
19 Please everybody turn off your
20 cellphones, as well as pagers, so that we are
21 not disrupted during the meeting.
22 Also when your case is called,
23 please come to the podium and state your
24 name, and also spell your name for our
25 reporter, so that we can have the proper
1 spelling of your names.
2 You will be given five minutes
3 to present your case and extensions are --
4 may be granted at the discretion of the
6 The public will be asked if
7 they wish to make any comments on any
8 particular case. At that point, they will be
9 asked to comment on the case that is before
10 the board.
11 Next is the approval of our
12 agenda. Are there any corrections?
13 MR. SANGHVI: Roll call.
14 CHAIRMAN IBE: Strike that. Can we
15 get a roll call, Ms. Pawlowski.
16 MS. PAWLOWSKI: We actually have
17 one change to the agenda.
18 CHAIRMAN IBE: You do?
19 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Yes. Case No.
20 12-021, at 44275 Twelve Mile. It was
21 advertised in the newspaper, and they have
22 asked to be postponed until the August 14th
23 meeting, or to be tabled.
24 CHAIRMAN IBE: Case No. 5 on the
25 agenda tonight?
1 MS. PAWLOWSKI: It did not make it
2 to the agenda.
3 CHAIRMAN IBE: Oh, it did not make
4 it to the agenda?
5 MS. PAWLOWSKI: No.
6 MR. SANGHVI: It's not there.
7 CHAIRMAN IBE: It's not there,
9 We get a roll call, please.
10 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Gedeon?
11 MR. GEDEON: Here.
12 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Gerblick?
13 (No audible response.)
14 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Ghannam?
15 MR. GHANNAM: Here.
16 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Chairman Ibe?
17 CHAIRMAN IBE: Present.
18 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Krieger?
19 MS. KRIEGER: Here.
20 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Sanghvi?
21 MR. SANGHVI: Here.
22 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Skelcy?
23 MS. SKELCY: Here.
24 CHAIRMAN IBE: Now, do we have any
25 further changes to the agenda other than what
1 was stated earlier?
2 MS. PAWLOWSKI: No.
3 MR. SANGHVI: Motion.
4 CHAIRMAN IBE: Motion to approve
5 the agenda as stated?
6 MR. SANGHVI: So moved.
7 MS. KRIEGER: Second.
8 CHAIRMAN IBE: Seeing that a motion
9 has been made and seconded, all in favor say
11 THE BOARD: Aye.
12 CHAIRMAN IBE: All against?
13 (No audible responses.)
14 CHAIRMAN IBE: Seeing none, the
15 motion is approved and the agenda accepted.
16 Now I'm going to go to the
17 city and ask if there is any comment from the
18 city at this time?
19 MR. BOULARD: No.
20 CHAIRMAN IBE: What about the
21 minutes from the last meeting from June 12,
22 2012? Do we have any changes?
23 (No audible responses.)
24 CHAIRMAN IBE: Seeing none, can I
25 get a motion?
1 MR. SANGHVI: So moved to accept
2 the minutes.
3 MS. KRIEGER: Second.
4 CHAIRMAN IBE: Motion has been made
5 and seconded. All in favor say aye.
6 THE BOARD: Aye.
7 CHAIRMAN IBE: All opposed?
8 (No audible response.)
9 CHAIRMAN IBE: Seeing none, the
10 minutes are hereby adopted.
11 Now, move to our public
12 remarks. The public remarks is limited to
13 matters that are just for public remarks and
14 not to any particular case before the board
15 at this time.
16 Do anyone in the public have
17 any public remarks?
18 MR. PHILLIPS: I just didn't
19 understand -- a question. Would there be an
20 opportunity at the end of the meeting to ask
21 for some guidance from the council?
22 CHAIRMAN IBE: On which --
23 MR. VALENTI: It's an extenuating
24 circumstance. I'm just asking for -- I'm
25 Nick Valenti, 27925 Summit, for the record.
1 CHAIRMAN IBE: Maybe at the end of
2 the meeting, sir, we may come to that.
3 MR. VALENTI: Thank you.
4 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you. Very
5 well, sir.
6 We will now move onto our
7 first case.
8 On the agenda for today is
9 Case No. 12-022, 39500 Ten Mile Road.
10 Will the applicant come to the
11 podium, state your name and spell your name
12 for the record.
13 If you're not an attorney,
14 please raise your right hand and be sworn in
15 by Madam Secretary.
16 MR. PHILLIPS: I am not an
18 CHAIRMAN IBE: Very well. Could
19 you state your name first and spell it.
20 MR. PHILLIPS: Sure. My name is
21 Ed Phillips, P-h-i-l-l-i-p-s, owner of
22 Phillips Sign and Lighting, 40920 Executive
23 Drive, Harrison Township.
24 MS. KRIEGER: In Case No. 12-022,
25 do you swear to tell the truth in this case?
1 MR. PHILLIPS: I do.
2 I have a handout. May I hand
3 it out?
4 CHAIRMAN IBE: Sure.
5 MR. PHILLIPS: I am here this
6 evening representing the Ten Haggerty medical
7 facility located at 39500 West Ten Mile Road.
8 Our hardship is lack of
9 adequate building identification due to
10 topography and building setback.
11 We are a medical facility
12 specializing in geriatrics. Not a day passes
13 that we are not reminded how difficult we are
14 to locate.
15 Our building entrance is as
16 shown on page four, if you would be so kind
17 as to look at this first page there, 388 feet
18 from the closest curb on Ten Mile.
19 We have a Jaguar parking lot
20 directly in front of most of our building,
21 which is again, depicted there, with a very
22 well maintained -- I mean, it is a nice
23 looking parking lot. It's very attractive.
24 The whole point is, we can't find our
1 Page four depicts a few
2 additional challenges. Not the bend in the
3 sidewalk. Again, we are behind it. It
4 doesn't seem as severe here as when you're
5 standing in person there. It's quite a
6 little curb, but we are to the east of it.
7 The driveway is where our sign
8 is located at the moment. And the signs
9 that -- again, we are not pointing fingers,
10 we are just kind of trying to show you that
11 we just want to be on equal footing with the
12 rest or our neighbors there.
13 The credit union sign is
14 actually 155 inches behind the sidewalk. The
15 Novi sign is 53 inches in front of the
16 sidewalk, as I'm sure you're all aware. And
17 the Jaguar sign is 112 inches.
18 The next page shows where our
19 sign -- those trees, this is a little big --
20 this is a Google image. As you can see by
21 the Google image, that the credit union
22 hasn't even been built yet. So this picture
23 isn't the most current thing.
24 Those trees are gone. But
25 it's still our sign sits 100 -- our sign sits
1 well back. It's like where that little line
2 is where our sign is.
3 Please note per our package,
4 we are requesting 120-inch from the sidewalk
5 or 70 feet from the center line.
6 Our patients are older and
7 often challenged with traffic and directions.
8 We know our request before you tonight will
9 help guide our patients safely to our
11 Wrapping up, I believes pages
12 one and two show -- demonstrate how well
13 moving our sign ten feet behind the sidewalk
14 will be very much in keeping with the
15 existing signage surrounding us.
16 Your approval this evening
17 will be appreciated by the owners, doctors
18 and especially our patients.
19 If you look closely at page
20 one, you can see the -- obviously the credit
21 union sign, you can see the Novi sign, the
23 That yellow tape that you see
24 to the right of that for lease sign is
25 actually the location of our sign. So it
1 puts it right in keeping with both our
2 neighbors on the other side of us.
3 CHAIRMAN IBE: Could you please put
4 this over by the overhead so we can -- for
5 the benefit of those watching at home, so
6 they can at least follow our presentation.
7 MR. PHILLIPS: This really doesn't
8 demonstrate. It's pretty hard to see up
9 there. This is the credit union sign right
10 here (indicating), this is the Jaguar sign
11 right here (indicating).
12 I don't know that you guys can
13 make this out at all, but there is some
14 yellow tape here. It's a stake that shows
15 our proposed 10 foot setback.
16 All we are doing is looking to
17 move our sign 30 feet west and forward, so
18 that it has a chance.
19 Again, we do realize that our
20 sign, by it's very nature, is not a sign
21 that's to be read. It's an address. That's
22 basically what we want on the street.
23 We tell people it's 32500
24 (sic.) is that right? That's what they look
25 for. Our patients are told to look for a
1 blue sign with an address.
2 Once they pull in the
3 driveway, and they stop, there is plenty of
4 room there for them to kind of look at the
5 sign to see if the doctor they're looking for
6 is on that sign.
7 So we didn't expect people to
8 be reading those doctors' names. We want
9 that address legible. That's really what
10 this is about.
11 Okay. So that's -- I can
12 answer any questions.
13 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you, sir.
14 MR. PHILLIPS: You're welcome.
15 CHAIRMAN IBE: Is there anyone in
16 the public who would like to make any
17 comments regarding the presentation made by
18 the applicant? Please raise your hand.
19 (No audible responses.)
20 CHAIRMAN IBE: Seeing none, I will
21 go through and ask if the city has any
22 comments regarding --
23 MS. SAARELA: No.
24 MR. BOULARD: Nothing to add.
25 Happy to stand by for questions.
1 CHAIRMAN IBE: Very well. Thank
2 you. I will now ask our Madam Secretary to
3 read into the record any correspondence
4 received for this case.
5 MS. KRIEGER: In Case. No. 12-022,
6 29 were mailed, four returned, zero response.
7 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you. I will
8 now open it up to the Board for discussion.
9 Yes, Ms. Skelcy.
10 MS. SKELCY: Mr. Phillips, so that
11 yellow tape is where the proposed sign is?
12 MR. PHILLIPS: Yes.
13 MS. SKELCY: When I went out and
14 looked at it, it looked even with the Jaguar
15 sign, so I would have no problem agreeing to
16 a vote in favor of the variance. Thank you.
17 MR. PHILLIPS: Thank you.
18 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you. Yes?
19 MR. SANGHVI: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
20 Now I did -- as a matter of fact, I didn't
21 know you had a building back inside for which
22 you want the sign until I went looking for
24 I understand your problem that
25 you need some recognition on the street
1 closer for people to be able to read.
2 I have no problem with
3 relocating your sign, but I'm not so sure
4 whether you need as big a sign as you want
5 for the location of your sign. Thank you.
6 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you. Yes?
7 MR. GHANNAM: I just have a couple
8 of questions for the city. The current sign
9 where it's placed, is that -- did that
10 require a variance or was that adequate for
11 the given setback?
12 MR. BOULARD: The allowable size of
13 the sign is based on the setback of the
14 centerline of the road. The existing sign is
15 compliant in its location.
16 Unless I'm mistaken, the
17 petitioner intends to take that sign and move
18 it up as opposed to creating a new slightly
19 smaller sign.
20 MR. GHANNAM: So they need two
21 variances here, for size and setback,
23 MR. BOULARD: Well, it would be
24 really one or the other. They're allowed to
25 have the sign closer. It just would
1 typically be limited in size.
2 So the variance for the larger
3 size would take care of that.
4 MR. GHANNAM: It is going to be the
5 exact same sign that's going to be simply
6 moved forward?
7 MR. PHILLIPS: Yes.
8 MR. GHANNAM: Given the
9 circumstances, I also don't have any problems
10 with it, sir.
11 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you. Member
13 MR. GEDEON: I'm all set. Thank
15 CHAIRMAN IBE: Very well. Are you
16 all set?
17 MR. SANGHVI: I'm all set. Thank
19 CHAIRMAN IBE: In the absence of
20 any further discussion, we'll entertain a
22 MR. GHANNAM: In Case No, 12-022
23 for 39500 Ten Mile, I move to grant the sign
24 variance as requested, based on circumstances
25 or features that are exceptional and unique
1 to this property and do not result from
2 conditions that exist generally in the city,
3 or that are self-created.
4 The failure to grant relief
5 will unreasonably prevent or limit the use of
6 property and will result in substantially
7 more than mere inconvenience or inability to
8 attain a higher economic or financial return.
9 A grant of relief will not
10 result in a use of structure that is
11 incompatible with or unreasonably interferes
12 with adjacent surrounding properties and will
13 result in substantial justice being done to
14 both the applicant and adjacent properties,
15 and it's not inconsistent with the spirit of
16 the ordinance.
17 MS. SKELCY: Second.
18 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you. Seeing a
19 motion and a second, do we have any further
20 conversation to carry on with this matter?
21 (No audible responses.)
22 CHAIRMAN IBE: Seeing none, I will
23 ask Madam Angela to please call the roll.
24 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Gedeon?
25 MR. GEDEON: Yes.
1 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Ghannam?
2 MR. GHANNAM: Yes.
3 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Chairman Ibe?
4 CHAIRMAN IBE: Yes.
5 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Krieger?
6 MS. KRIEGER: Yes.
7 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Sanghvi?
8 MR. SANGHVI: Yes.
9 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Skelcy?
10 MS. SKELCY: Yes.
11 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Motion passes six
12 to zero.
13 CHAIRMAN IBE: Congratulations,
15 MR. PHILLIPS: Thank you. Have a
16 good evening.
17 CHAIRMAN IBE: That brings us to
18 our second case for today. Case No. 12-026,
19 2296 Austin Drive.
20 Will the applicant please come
21 to the podium, and just as a reminder, please
22 state your full name and spell your last
23 name, especially, for the record.
24 If you are not an attorney,
25 please raise your right hand and be sworn in
1 by Madam Secretary. Thank you.
2 MR. SISKONEN: I am Richard
4 MS. SAARELA: We should mention to
5 the applicants that we don't have a full
6 board, so that if they wanted to table until
7 we have a full board, they have the option.
8 CHAIRMAN IBE: Very well. Thank
9 you for that reminder.
10 Just real quickly, for the
11 applicant at the podium, as well as those in
12 the room, we do not have a full board today.
13 So if anyone -- any decision that is made
14 today will be final.
15 If you feel you want to have a
16 full board to hear your case, you are -- at
17 your discretion, you may elect to table your
18 case for the next available meeting date,
19 which will be in the month of August, August
21 However, if you wish to
22 proceed today, we do have a quorum, which
23 means that any decision we make will be
25 So if you wish to go forward
1 with your case --
2 MR. SISKONEN: Yes.
3 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you. Go
4 ahead, speak your full name again.
5 MR. HEAD: My name is Brian Head,
6 H-e-a-d. I'm with All Seasons Enclosures.
7 This is our customer.
8 CHAIRMAN IBE: Can you spell your
9 name, please. Spell your last name.
10 MR. HEAD: H-e-a-d.
11 CHAIRMAN IBE: Very well. Are you
12 an attorney, sir?
13 MR. HEAD: No.
14 CHAIRMAN IBE: Please raise your
15 right hand and be sworn in.
16 MS. KRIEGER: In Case No. 12-026,
17 for 2296 Austin Drive, do you swear to tell
18 the truth in this case?
19 MR. HEAD: Yes, ma'am.
20 CHAIRMAN IBE: Go ahead, sir.
21 MR. HEAD: As you can see on this
22 mortgage survey, what we are proposing is the
23 addition back here, which is only 10 feet
24 out, and 19 foot wide.
25 It looks like, per the
1 Township regulations, that we need 35 feet
2 from the property line, okay.
3 Our hardship lies in due to
4 the way that this property line is angled,
5 how it comes in, this gives us only 33 and a
6 half feet.
7 As you can see, they have half
8 of lot 92, all of lot 93, but where the
9 property lines falls in Shawood Lake, it's
10 not normal.
11 As you can see toward the
12 front, which is kind of rounded, if it was
13 like that, then there would be no problem
15 They're retired, and she is
16 allergic to the sun and they have a heavy
17 mosquito problem there. She's also allergic
18 to bug bites and things like that.
19 She wants to enjoy the family,
20 but it's kind of tough. All they have is a
21 deck right now, and they want to bring the
22 outside in, have a nice little enclosure to
23 sit and enjoy the property.
24 So it's basically what we have
25 is we are looking for about a foot and a
1 half, as far as the way the property lies is
2 why we're here.
3 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you, sir.
4 Is there anybody in the public
5 who would like to make any comments regarding
6 this particular case at this time?
7 (No audible responses.)
8 CHAIRMAN IBE: Seeing none, I will
9 ask our secretary to please read into the
10 record any correspondence received.
11 MS. KRIEGER: For ZBA Case No.
12 12-026, 36 were mailed, five returned, one
13 approval. The approval is from Jerry and
14 Patricia Gibson on Shawood. They just
15 circled approval. Thank you.
16 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you, Madam
18 I will now turn to the city
19 for any comment that they may have regarding
20 this particular case.
21 MS. SAARELA: We have none.
22 MR. BOULARD: If I might ask one
23 question of the petitioner.
24 CHAIRMAN IBE: Yes, please.
25 MR. BOULARD: One option would be
1 to install the proposed sunroom along the
2 north side of the house, which would then
3 likely not require a variance.
4 Can you outline for us the
5 reasons that you chose to put the sunroom on
6 the back of the house.
7 MR. HEAD: As you can see, this is
8 looking over the lake and looking over the
9 large part of the property where the children
10 and family come to play and gather and things
11 like that, so this is so she can also look
12 over children and see what's going on,
13 swimming and safety. And so it's just more
14 of making sure the family is okay and
15 enjoying the property the way it views the
17 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you.
18 Now we will open it up to the
19 board for discussion. Yes.
20 MS. SKELCY: I actually live over
21 by you folks. I walk my little Yorkie down
22 Austin all the time. So I know how the lake
23 kind of interferes with the property lines,
24 and that it's not really a self-created
25 problem and it's really the function or
1 caused by the lake location and how it abuts
2 up to the property. So I will have no
3 problem approving a motion for the variance.
4 Thank you.
5 MR. HEAD: Thank you.
6 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you. Member
8 MS. KRIEGER: I have a question,
9 Mr. Siskonen. Are you a member of CERT?
10 MR. SISKONEN: A member of what?
11 MS. KRIEGER: CERT, Community
12 Emergency Response Team?
13 MR. SISKONEN: No.
14 MS. KRIEGER: I thought I saw you
15 from somewhere before.
16 MR. SISKONEN: I'm a greeter at
17 Meijer, so you might have seen me in there.
18 MS. KRIEGER: I'm there all the
19 time, too.
20 MR. SISKONEN: I see a lot of
21 people in there. A lot of familiar faces.
22 MR. HEAD: He's also retired from
23 the State.
24 MS. KRIEGER: Okay. Also, as
25 stated by the petitioner, that -- for those
1 reasons, the enclosure in the back, because
2 of the mosquitoes and being able to visualize
3 the whole side of the lake.
4 I have no further questions.
5 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you, Member
7 Do we have any additional
8 comments or questions for the applicant?
10 MR. GHANNAM: Just briefly, I also
11 have no problems with it. To me, it seems
12 like in the most logical place.
13 This is really a technical
14 violation because of the outline of the lot,
15 based on the lake. I mean, this is really
16 what the board is used for to try to help out
17 someone for these technical violations.
18 Again, I have no problem with it.
19 MR. SISKONEN: Thank you.
20 MR. HEAD: Thank you.
21 CHAIRMAN IBE: Just real quickly, I
22 do not have any problem with this as well.
23 I think, if anything at all,
24 the neighbors might actually enjoy a better
25 view, that they probably wouldn't have had.
1 And it will not have any adverse impact on
2 any surrounding neighbors.
3 MR. HEAD: Thank you.
4 CHAIRMAN IBE: Seeing no further
5 conversation of this case, I will entertain a
7 MS. SKELCY: In the case of 12-026
8 for the address of 2296 Austin Drive, I move
9 that we approve the -- that we grant the
10 variance for a 33 and a half foot setback as
11 opposed to the required 35 foot setback.
12 This is based on the fact that
13 there are unique circumstances and physical
14 conditions of the property, such as the
15 narrowness, shallowness, shape, water,
16 topography and other similar conditions. And
17 the need for the variance is not due to the
18 applicant's personal or economic difficulty.
19 The need is not self-created.
20 Strict compliance with
21 regulations governing the area, setback,
22 frontage, height, bulk, density and other
23 dimensional requirements will not
24 unreasonably prevent -- would unreasonably
25 prevent the property owner from using the
1 property for a permitted purpose and will
2 render conformity to these regulations
3 unnecessarily burdensome.
4 The requested variance is the
5 minimum variance necessary to do substantial
6 justice to the applicant, as well as to other
7 property owners in the district.
8 And the requested variance
9 will not cause an adverse impact on
10 surrounding property, property values or the
11 use and enjoyment of the property in the
12 neighborhood or the zoning district.
13 MR. GHANNAM: Second.
14 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you. Seeing a
15 motion and a second, do we have any further
16 conversation on this case?
17 (No audible responses.)
18 CHAIRMAN IBE: Seeing none, please
19 call the roll.
20 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Gedeon?
21 MR. GEDEON: Yes.
22 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Ghannam?
23 MR. GHANNAM: Yes.
24 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Chairman Ibe?
25 CHAIRMAN IBE: Yes.
1 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Krieger?
2 MS. KRIEGER: Yes.
3 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Sanghvi?
4 MR. SANGHVI: Yes.
5 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Skelcy?
6 MS. SKELCY: Yes.
7 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Motion passes six
8 to zero.
9 MR. HEAD: Thank you so much.
10 CHAIRMAN IBE: Congratulations.
11 Thank you.
12 That brings us to our next
13 case. Case No. 12-027, 44000 Twelve Mile
15 Will the applicant please come
16 to the podium. Please, when you get to the
17 podium, state your full name and spell your
18 last name for the record.
19 If you don't have an attorney,
20 please raise your right hand and be sworn in
21 You may proceed.
22 MR. MILLER: My name is Roger
23 Miller, owner of Spectrum Signs and Designs
24 in Dearborn, Michigan, 25217 Michigan Avenue.
25 CHAIRMAN IBE: Did you spell your
1 last name?
2 MR. MILLER: Yes, M-i-l-l-e-r.
3 MS. KRIEGER: In Case No. 12-027,
4 on 44000 Twelve Mile Road, do you swear or
5 affirm to tell the truth in this case?
6 MR. MILLER: Yes, I do.
7 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you.
8 MR. MILLER: Yes. The property
9 owner is requesting a variance for additional
10 wall signage on the east and west upper sides
11 of the building for the urgent care facility
12 that is a tenant in the building.
13 The building with its
14 positioning and setback does not have any
15 other way to show the existence of these
16 medical services that are available under
17 emergency satiations, and the placement on
18 the building is to cover both directions of
19 Twelve Mile, and up high enough on the
20 building so it can be seen over the trees
21 that are on the properties on either side of
22 this building.
23 And the request is the --
24 under the ordinance it's only allowed to have
25 one wall sign and one ground sign, which it
1 has already, so this would be additional wall
2 signs, and also with the sizing, it is ten
3 square feet larger than what's allowed in the
5 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you. Is there
6 anyone in the public who would like to make a
7 comment regarding this particular case at
8 this time?
9 (No audible responses.)
10 CHAIRMAN IBE: Seeing none, I will
11 ask if we have comments from the city?
12 MS. SAARELA: I have none.
13 MR. BOULARD: Just one question, if
14 I may. There is an existing ground sign
15 which has the urgent care notice on that.
16 Was there any thought given to
17 dedicating a larger portion of that sign as
18 opposed to putting additional signs on the
20 MR. MILLER: Well, that sign is
21 fairly visible as it is, but it really -- for
22 people driving until they're right in front
23 of the property, it's not as visible and it
24 is -- and that sign even being larger is not
25 easily visible on the eastbound traffic
1 because of the center median that's there.
2 So I don't think it would help
3 the situation by just increasing the size
4 there on the monument sign.
5 MR. BOULARD: Thank you.
6 CHAIRMAN IBE: I will ask our
7 secretary to read in the record any
8 correspondence received in this case.
9 MS. KRIEGER: In Case No. 12-027,
10 42 were mailed, five returned, zero
12 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you. I will
13 now open up this particular case for
14 discussion from the board.
15 MR. GHANNAM: Do you know how many
16 tenants are in this building?
17 MR. MILLER: No, I do not know that
19 MR. GHANNAM: There are several,
20 aren't there?
21 MR. MILLER: Yes.
22 CHAIRMAN IBE: My problem with this
23 particular request is, number one, you're
24 asking for two signs. I understand why.
25 Don't get me wrong, it's logical, you want
1 signs all over the building. I get that.
2 Plus you want signs that are
3 oversized for the building. To me the
4 outside of the building is identified as a
5 medical building. Not necessarily urgent
6 care, but medical.
7 The ground sign already
8 identifies that there is an urgent care
10 I don't think this is the type
11 of business that people are driving up and
12 down the street looking for an urgent care.
13 It's something you look on
14 your phone or you look in the yellow pages,
15 something to that effect. So hopefully
16 people would look you up before they come
17 driving around, so I don't think, in my
18 opinion, this meets standards that are
19 required for these type of hearings.
20 Unfortunately, I would not be
21 in support of this.
22 MR. MILLER: A couple of things,
23 one, you asked about the other tenants and
24 that in the building.
25 The property management spoke
1 with all of the tenants of the building and
2 they didn't have any problem. I mean, from
3 that aspect --
4 MR. GHANNAM: Sir, I understand
5 that. I'm not really trying to argue with
6 you. But with your theory, every single
7 tenant should be entitled to a couple of
8 signs because why not dermatology, and why
9 not obstetrics and so forth.
10 I don't think just because
11 it's an urgent care it has any special
12 preference. There is a ground sign, that
13 hopefully all tenants will have some
14 identification for. I just don't think this
15 meets our standards. Thank you.
16 CHAIRMAN IBE: Anything additional?
17 MR. SANGHVI: Thank you. I agree
18 with Mr. Ghannam. This is not an emergency
19 room. An urgent care sign is already there.
20 These additional signs are not necessary.
21 Thank you.
22 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you, Member
24 Do we have any additional
25 comments or questions? Yes, Member Krieger.
1 MS. KRIEGER: Has the company, the
2 Premier Medical area, that signage in redoing
3 it, have they considered remodeling that or
4 changing it so that they can accommodate the
5 desire to put the signs on east, west for
6 urgent care?
7 MR. MILLER: No, they hadn't at
8 this point, no.
9 MR. FENSTER: My name is Matt
10 Fenster with Paragon. I'm the managing agent
11 for Affiliated Investors who owns Premier
13 CHAIRMAN IBE: Sir, could you
14 please spell your name for the record.
15 MR. FENSTER: F, as in Frank,
17 CHAIRMAN IBE: Can you raise your
18 right hand and be sworn in first.
19 MS. KRIEGER: In Case No. 12-027,
20 44000 Twelve Mile Road, do you swear to tell
21 the truth in this case?
22 MR. FENSTER: Yes, I do.
23 With regard to the signs for
24 Premier Medical, we had talked about, you
25 know, changing that.
1 It's a physician owned
2 building. I support their feeling on this,
3 that they have built some equity in that
4 name, their patients know how to find the
5 building. It's known as Premier Medical in
6 the community, so having Premier on the
7 building is important to them.
8 Additionally, we feel it's
9 important to have the urgent care on there
10 because it's really kind of serving a service
11 to the community by providing these types of
13 I think it's important for
14 people to be able to find the building, when
15 they need to, for those types of services.
16 MS. KRIEGER: So for an urgent
17 care, compared to an emergency room, what do
18 they have available that somebody sees urgent
19 care that they're going to stop?
20 MR. FENSTER: Well, the concept for
21 urgent care is to take a lot of the
22 non-emergency cases outside of the emergency
23 room, where a lot of people go to emergency
24 rooms, that don't have an emergency.
25 The urgent care fills that
1 need. Emergency rooms are meant for people
2 in a true dire emergency.
3 MS. KRIEGER: Because I was
4 thinking about it. It is important to show
5 that you're an urgent care, but I agree with
6 the previous two speakers that with the
7 signage already approved, that those two
8 signs could be re-accommodated to show what
9 your desiring versus having two extra signs.
10 That's all my questions.
11 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you, Member
13 Just a quick comment. I
14 think, sir, the point you just made, pretty
15 much contradicts what the gentleman is trying
16 to do and actually helps the position that
17 the members have already espoused here.
18 Premier Medical, like you
19 said, is something that is known by everyone.
20 It's something that the physicians who own
21 the building feel that everybody is already
22 aware of.
23 So it's easy to say, if you
24 want to find the urgent care, just look for
25 Premier Medical. So you make the case very
1 easy for me to be against what you're really
2 asking for.
3 Unfortunately, that was the
4 best argument that could have been made by us
5 here, but you made that for us.
6 MR. FENSTER: I don't think so.
7 Because it's a medical building, but not
8 every medical building has urgent care in it.
9 The Keystone building down the
10 street does not have urgent care in it. So
11 someone says, Keystone Medical, they should
12 not go there in the evening, if they have an
13 issue, they should go to Premier. And the
14 only way they will know that is that because
15 of the urgent care signage.
16 CHAIRMAN IBE: You do have -- the
17 current sign that you have right now has
18 urgent care on it.
19 MR. FENSTER: Correct.
20 CHAIRMAN IBE: Because I have been
21 there quite a few times. I really don't go
22 looking for it in the City of Novi because I
23 know exactly where it's located.
24 So it's very easy to find. I
25 know to look for the Premier medical
1 building, I know where the urgent care is
2 located on Twelve Mile.
3 There is only one urgent care
4 on Twelve Mile, is that correct, sir? In the
5 City of Novi, will you agree --
6 MR. FENSTER: I don't know. I
7 think you're correct, but I don't know 100
9 CHAIRMAN IBE: There is just one
10 because I know that for a fact, so it's very
11 easy to find the place.
12 It is only -- if you are
13 looking for Chase bank, you drive down the
14 street looking for Chase bank, but most
15 people that go to urgent care, would you
16 agree that when they go to an urgent care it
17 is because they need -- they have a need to
18 go there.
19 So certainly they would have
20 looked up the address before leaving the
22 MR. FENSTER: Yes, but it makes it
23 that much easier, you know, when you're a
24 parent with a sick child, and -- it just
25 helps them find the building that much
2 CHAIRMAN IBE: Very well. Thank
3 you very much, sir.
4 MR. MILLER: Could I add something
5 to that?
6 CHAIRMAN IBE: Unfortunately, sir,
7 there is no question on the table right now.
8 Thank you very much, sir. I appreciate your
10 Do we have any additional
11 questions or comments from the board?
12 (No audible responses.)
13 CHAIRMAN IBE: Seeing none, I will
14 entertain a motion, please.
15 MR. GEDEON: In Case 12-028, for
16 43263 Crescent Boulevard --
17 MR. GHANNAM: No.
18 MR. GEDEON: I'm sorry. In Case
19 12-027, 44000 Twelve Mile Road, I move to
20 deny the requested variance, specifically the
21 request is not based upon circumstances or
22 features that are exceptional and unique to
23 the property, and merely result from
24 conditions that exist generally in the city.
25 The failure to grant relief
1 will not unreasonably prevent or limit the
2 use of the property, and will result in
3 nothing more than a mere inconvenience or
4 inability to obtain a higher economic
5 financial return.
6 Additionally, the specific
7 sign text of urgent care is already listed on
8 the existing ground sign.
9 The grant of relief would be
10 inconsistent with the spirit of the
12 MR. GHANNAM: Second.
13 CHAIRMAN IBE: Seeing a motion and
14 a second, do we have any further conversation
15 regarding this case?
16 (No audible responses.)
17 CHAIRMAN IBE: Seeing none, can you
18 please call the roll.
19 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Gedeon?
20 MR. GEDEON: Yes.
21 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Ghannam?
22 MR. GHANNAM: Yes.
23 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Chairman Ibe?
24 CHAIRMAN IBE: Yes.
25 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Krieger?
1 MS. KRIEGER: Yes.
2 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Sanghvi?
3 MR. SANGHVI: Yes.
4 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Skelcy?
5 MS. SKELCY: Yes.
6 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Motion passes six
7 to zero.
8 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you, sir.
9 Good luck.
10 Move on to Case No. 12-028,
11 43263 Crescent Boulevard. Will the applicant
12 come to the podium, state your full name and
13 spell your last name for the record.
14 If you're not an attorney,
15 please raise your right hand be sworn in by
16 our secretary. Thank you.
17 MR. DETERS: Good evening. I'm
18 John Deters, D-e-t-e-r-s, from Metro Detroit
19 Signs, 23544 Hoover Road, in Warren. With is
20 me Mr. Pitts from Casual Male Retail Group.
21 MR. PITTS: Good evening. My name
22 is Dan Pitts. I'm with Casual Male Retail
23 Group. The home office address is 555
24 Turnpike Street, in Canton, Massachusetts. I
25 am the vice president of store planning.
1 Last name is spelled P-i-t-t-s.
2 MS. KRIEGER: Are either of you
4 MR. DETERS: No.
5 MR. PITTS: No.
6 MS. KRIEGER: In Case No. 12-028
7 for 43263 Crescent Boulevard, do you both
8 swear to tell the truth in this case?
9 MR. PITTS: I do.
10 MR. DETERS: I do.
11 DXL Mens Apparel is moving
12 into a new area in the mall, and they have
13 asked for two signs.
14 The first has been approved,
15 and the request today is for a variance to
16 approve the second one.
17 The first one is in the front
18 of the store, facing the parking lot, the
19 interior part of the mall. The second one is
20 on the direct -- is directly behind it in the
21 back of the store, facing the loop road that
22 runs around the north side of the mall.
23 DXL is asking for this
24 variance because of the lack of
25 identification, there is nothing on the back,
1 which also is a door, for customers, just as
2 the front.
3 So for that reason, the
4 company is asking for this approval of the
5 second sign.
6 Mr. Pitts has a few other
7 words that he'd like to say about in support
8 of the request.
9 MR. PITTS: Good evening. As John
10 had referenced, we specifically have
11 structured the footprint of this particular
12 space so that we have two entrances, one in
13 the front facing the inside of the shopping
14 center. The second one will face Crescent
15 Road, and we did that primarily for visibilty
16 and also to create an opportunity for a
17 second sign.
18 We are working with Simon, the
19 developer, on creating a facia. There are
20 presently two columns that stand as recessed
21 entry under the clock tower. We will be
22 creating a bridging facia working with the
23 original architects of the shopping center,
24 that will be brought forward to create a
25 better visibility situation.
1 The dimensions of that facia,
2 that enhancement, it's approximately six foot
3 six tall, the facia condition that you're
4 looking at is approximately 19 feet wide.
5 Part of the reason why we have
6 suggested the sign, the size sign that we
7 have proposed architecturally, the
8 proportions of that enhancement seems to call
9 for -- in our opinion, it seems to call for a
10 sign larger than the -- I believe the 24
11 square foot limit. That 24 square feet, the
12 sign would be basically 27 inches tall by
13 four feet wide. So it would be very a small
14 postage stamp within that overall
15 architectural condition that we are creating.
16 It should be mentioned --
17 actually I'd like to mention, we presently do
18 have a store called Casual Male XL. Casual
19 Male XL is owned and operated by Casual Male
20 Retail Group, as I said, based in Canton,
21 Massachusetts. We have presently 400 stores.
22 We are converting the chain to a new concept,
23 a new superstore concept.
24 Novi is one of the towns that
25 in 2012 that we -- one of the 35 locations
1 that we are converting. Over the next three
2 years we will have converted the entire
3 chain. By the end of this year, we will have
4 50 destination XL stores.
5 I think the -- again, the
6 important points we feel is we are going to
7 have a second entrance on this side of the
8 building. That's why we are petitioning for
9 a second sign.
10 Also just based on the
11 architecture of the rear of the building,
12 underneath the clock tower, we are developing
13 that facia to, again working with the
14 existing architects, we feel that the size
15 sign we are asking for is proportionately
16 appropriate based on the architectural
17 conditions we are creating. Thank you.
18 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you.
19 Is there anybody in the
20 audience who would like to make a comment
21 regarding this particular case, please raise
22 your hand.
23 (No audible responses.)
24 CHAIRMAN IBE: Well, seeing none, I
25 will ask our secretary to read into the
1 record any correspondence received.
2 MS. KRIEGER: In Case No. 12-028,
3 175 were emailed, 42 returned, zero
5 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you. I will
6 now turn to the city for any comment they may
7 have regarding this particular case.
8 MS. SAARELA: I have none.
9 MR. BOULARD: Just as a point of
10 reference, the sign on the front of the
11 building is within -- the proposed sign on
12 the front of the building is within the size
13 allowed by the ordinance.
14 This is the request for the
15 second sign on the rear. As mentioned, in
16 this type of report, there was a previous
17 variance from a number of years ago that
18 allowed a rear sign of 54 square feet. This
19 request is a nominal two square feet bigger,
20 at 56.
21 But the condition of the
22 variance at that time, that there could be no
23 additional signs on the back, so hence the
24 petitioners are back before you. Thank you.
25 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you so much,
1 Mr. Boulard.
2 I will now open it up for
3 discussion among the board. Yes, Member
5 MR. SANGHVI: The entire
6 configuration of the Town Center has changed,
7 with the changed layout. It is very hard to
8 know which is the front and which is the back
9 in this particular case. And they do need to
10 have some kind of identification of this
11 business on both sides, especially on the
12 street side.
13 So I have no problem
14 supporting this application. Thank you.
15 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you, sir. Do
16 we have any further comments? Questions?
18 MR. GHANNAM: I agree also given
19 the nature and the configuration of this
20 particular building. Also ordinarily I
21 wouldn't approve, or at least be in favor of
22 a sign that large, but I think your argument
23 is -- seems to be accurate in that, I mean,
24 it was built for that in a sense. If you
25 didn't have something, it would look -- you
1 know, that size, it would be unusual. If you
2 had no sign at all, it would also look pretty
3 unusual. So I think under the circumstances,
4 I would approve this.
5 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you. Do we
6 have any further comments or questions?
7 MS. KRIEGER: I do have a question.
8 Regarding the DXL, when I first drove by, I
9 was thinking it was going to be recessed like
10 that, how was anybody driving by going to see
11 it, but from the expressway, you can see it
12 look structurally -- I agree that it is
13 proportional. And because of the
14 configuration, I agree with the previous
15 speaker, that the mall is different now, that
16 it would need additional signage.
17 I was wondering though because
18 of windows, different stores with
19 different -- would the windows have signage
20 in them as well or how would they be
22 MR. PITTS: Typically our -- the
23 perimeter windows of our store would either
24 have mannequin displays, lifestyle display.
25 Sometimes it's a combination of props and
1 layered -- sometimes there are layered
2 graphics that are three and four feet back
3 from the actual line of the glass.
4 I'd have to really take a look
5 at the floor plan of this particular store
6 because the way it's configured and the way
7 the Simon Group is subdividing the space, the
8 windows on the left-hand side will not be our
9 windows. That's a separate tenancy.
10 We are actually -- our primary
11 frontage is facing inside of the mall, but we
12 have kind of a continual -- basically a wide
13 swathe of the store that will lead to that
14 entrance directly under the clock tower.
15 That will definitely be an entrance right
16 into the sales area of the store.
17 So we don't have all those
18 windows, I guess, really is what I'm trying
19 to -- is my response to the question.
20 So in this particular case,
21 I'm not sure how those windows will be
22 decorated by the tenants who ultimately do
23 lease those spaces, that flank that entrance,
24 that flank the entrance underneath the clock
1 MS. KRIEGER: Thank you.
2 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you. Any
3 additional questions or comments?
4 (No audible responses.)
5 Seeing none, I will entertain
6 a motion.
7 CHAIRMAN IBE: Yes, Member Krieger.
8 MS. KRIEGER: In Case No. 12-028,
9 43263 Crescent Boulevard, I move to approve
10 the request for one additional sign for this
12 That the request is based upon
13 circumstances that are unique and exceptional
14 to this property.
15 The mall is being regenerated
16 and has new drives, which makes some
17 buildings have two frontages and that these
18 conditions generally are existing in the
20 The failure to grant relief
21 will unreasonably prevent or limit the use of
22 the property and will result in substantially
23 more than mere inconvenience or inability to
24 attain a higher economic or financial return.
25 The grant of the relief will
1 not result in a use of structure that is
2 incompatible with or unreasonably interferes
3 with the adjacent or surrounding properties
4 and it is compatible to other businesses in
5 the area, and will result in substantial
6 justice being done to the applicant and
7 surrounding properties and is not
8 inconsistent with the spirit of the
10 MR. SANGHVI: Second.
11 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you. Seeing
12 that a motion has been made and seconded, do
13 we have any need for further comments
14 regarding the case?
15 (No audible responses.)
16 CHAIRMAN IBE: Seeing none, please
17 call the roll.
18 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Gedeon?
19 MR. GEDEON: Yes.
20 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Ghannam?
21 MR. GHANNAM: Yes.
22 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Chairman Ibe?
23 CHAIRMAN IBE: Yes.
24 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Krieger?
25 MS. KRIEGER: Yes.
1 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Sanghvi?
2 MR. SANGHVI: Yes.
3 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Skelcy?
4 MS. SKELCY: Yes.
5 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Motion passes six
6 to zero.
7 CHAIRMAN IBE: Congratulations,
9 MR. PITTS: Thank you very much.
10 CHAIRMAN IBE: We now go to Case
11 No. 12-029, 24951 Portsmouth. Will the
12 applicant please come to the podium. Please
13 state your full name address. Also, spell
14 your last name for the record.
15 If you're not an attorney,
16 please raise your right hand and be sworn in.
17 MR. BRONZOVICH: My name is Tony
18 Bronzovich, it's B, like boy, r-o-n-z, like
19 zebra, o-v, like Victor, i-c-h from Epiphany
20 Kitchens, 107 North Center Street,
21 Northville, Michigan.
22 MS. KRIEGER: In Case. No. 12-029,
23 for 42951 Portsmouth, do you swear to tell
24 the truth in this case?
25 MR. BRONZOVICH: Yes, I do.
1 What we are looking to do is
2 do an addition to their home, to enlarge
3 their kitchen eating space.
4 They have a corner lot right
5 now on Portsmouth. The variance -- excuse
6 me, the code is for 30 feet of a setback and
7 we are looking for a 25 and a half foot
8 setback, we are going to do four and a half
9 foot addition.
10 What we were looking to do is
11 Mr. and Mr. Moore are planning on retiring in
12 that home and they really enjoy the
14 They feel that the kitchen is
15 getting to the point of needing remodeling
16 and we are looking to make it for their
17 future and not just for right now.
18 What they have found is as
19 their family is growing and their life is
20 changing, they need more space for people.
21 They need larger walkways to accommodate
22 relatives that are handicapped and just stuff
23 for them as they get older.
24 What the plan will do is allow
25 us to create a more ergonomic configuration
1 so they can get through the kitchen easier,
2 open up walkways, put things like wall ovens
3 where it is easier to reach things when you
4 get older.
5 Again, just make it useful
6 space for them and a more functional space as
7 they age in the home.
8 We did do a survey of the
9 neighbors in the area, I believe, was part of
10 the packet. We had five of the neighbors
11 around the corner did approve the look.
12 We did talk to the
13 neighborhood -- the homeowners association
14 which also gave us a letter of recommendation
15 on that.
16 I have that here because they
17 met after the deadline to turn everything in.
18 Can I approach?
19 CHAIRMAN IBE: Yes.
20 MR. BRONZOVICH: I guess that is my
22 CHAIRMAN IBE: Well, thank you. Is
23 there anybody in the public who would like to
24 make a comment regarding this particular
25 case, please raise your hand.
1 (No audible responses.)
2 CHAIRMAN IBE: Seeing none, I will
3 ask our secretary to read into the record any
5 MS. KRIEGER: In Case No. 12-029,
6 26 were emailed, zero returned, one approval
7 and it's from Duane and Lillian Zalinski and
8 they circled approval. We have no underlying
9 objection to this requested variance.
10 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you. I would
11 now turn to the city for any comment that
12 they have regarding this case.
13 MS. SAARELA: I have none.
14 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you.
15 MR. BOULARD: Stand by for
16 questions. Thank you.
17 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you. I will
18 now open it up to the board for discussion.
20 MS. KRIEGER: Should I read into
21 the minutes the petition that was -- put in
22 our packet?
23 CHAIRMAN IBE: Is that something
24 that was received --
25 MS. KRIEGER: Yes.
1 CHAIRMAN IBE: Sure.
2 MS. KRIEGER: From the neighbors.
3 "I acknowledge that I have
4 viewed the plans for the six foot bump out to
5 the Moore residence at 24951 Portsmouth
6 Avenue in Novi. I would like the City of
7 Novi to know they have my full support for
8 this project." The first one is from
9 Lorne Purslow on Portsmouth.
10 The second one is from Bridget
11 Rouhan on Portsmouth. The next one is
12 from --
13 MR. SANGHVI: Would you like me to
14 read it?
15 MS. KRIEGER: Yes, please.
16 MR. SANGHVI: Nenkataramana Kongara
17 from White Plains Drive.
18 MS. KRIEGER: Jim Morris on
19 Portsmouth and --
20 MR. SANGHVI: Rajwinder Kaur from
21 Portsmouth Avenue.
22 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you. We will
23 make sure to provide this to our reporter so
24 we can get the correct spellings of those
25 names. Thank you.
1 I will now open it up to the
2 board for discussion. Anyone have any
3 questions or comments?
4 MR. SANGHVI: Actually I was there
5 this afternoon and I saw your property. And
6 it's a very good idea. I have no problem
7 with supporting your application. On a
8 corner lot it is very hard to know which is
9 the front and which is the back and which is
10 the side.
11 What you are proposing is not
12 going to affect anybody and it is good for
13 you. I'm sure it's good for everybody else.
14 Thank you.
15 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you, Member
17 MR. GHANNAM: I also agree with
18 him, because it is a double frontage lot and
19 it seems that your neighbors don't have a
20 problem and it was approved by your
21 homeowners association, to me lends support
22 to your request.
23 You did your homework before
24 you came in here. That's what we like to
25 see, just to make sure there is no issues
1 with anybody. Sometimes when people come in,
2 they alert us to things that we don't think
4 I have no problems supporting
6 MR. BRONZOVICH: Thank you, sir.
7 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you.
8 Any additional comments or
10 MR. SANGHVI: Make a motion.
11 CHAIRMAN IBE: Seeing no other
12 conversations, I will entertain a motion.
13 Madam Krieger.
14 MS. KRIEGER: In Case No. 12-029
15 for 24951 Portsmouth, I move to approve the
16 request, that there are unique circumstances
17 and physical conditions of the property such
18 as narrowness, shallowness, shape, water,
19 topography or similar physical conditions,
20 and the need for the variance is not due to
21 the applicant's personal or economic
22 difficulty, that their house has two
23 frontages, from two streets. It's not
25 That strict compliance with
1 regulations governing area setback, frontage,
2 height, bulk, density or other dimensional
3 requirements will unreasonably prevent the
4 property owner from using the property for a
5 permitted purpose or will render conformity
6 with those regulations unnecessarily
8 That they spoke with their
9 neighbors and the homeowners association.
10 And the requested variance is the minimum
11 variance necessary to do substantial justice
12 to the applicant as well as to other
13 properties in the district and that it is
14 very nice to want to stay in your home.
15 And the requested variance
16 will not cause an adverse impact on
17 surrounding property values or the use and
18 enjoyment of the property in the neighborhood
19 of zoning district.
20 MR. GHANNAM: Second.
21 CHAIRMAN IBE: Seeing a motion has
22 been made and seconded, do we have any
23 further conversation?
24 (No audible responses.)
25 CHAIRMAN IBE: Seeing none, please
1 call the roll.
2 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Gedeon?
3 MR. GEDEON: Yes.
4 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Ghannam?
5 MR. GHANNAM: Yes.
6 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Chairman Ibe?
7 CHAIRMAN IBE: Yes.
8 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Krieger?
9 MS. KRIEGER: Yes.
10 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Sanghvi?
11 MR. SANGHVI: Yes.
12 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Skelcy?
13 MS. SKELCY: Yes.
14 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Motion passes six
15 to zero.
16 MR. BRONZOVICH: Thank you very
18 CHAIRMAN IBE: Congratulations,
20 That brings us to our last
21 case for today. Case No. 12-030, 1409 East
22 Lake Drive.
23 Will the applicant please come
24 to the podium, state your full name for the
25 record as well as your address and please --
1 MR. BROOKE: Jeffrey Brooke,
2 J-e-f-f-r-e-y, B-r-o-o-k-e, 1409 East Lake
4 MS. KRIEGER: Are you an attorney?
5 MR. BROOKE: No, I am not.
6 MS. KRIEGER: In Case No. 12-030,
7 for 1409 East Lake Drive, do you swear to
8 tell the truth in this case?
9 MR. BROOKE: I do.
10 MS. KRIEGER: Thank you.
11 MR. BROOKE: I'm not sure if
12 anybody had a chance to go my house, but if
13 you're driving past from the road, it looks
14 bigger than it actually is.
15 We have -- we have a, you
16 know, a garage right on the main floor,
17 between that and the stairs it takes up 60
18 percent of the main area. Then upstairs we
19 have 850 square feet. So the four of us it's
20 kind of limited.
21 Not just that, but when they
22 built the place, the main beam that carries
23 the load through the garage is too small, so
24 they had to put a post in the middle of the
1 So I have been there -- my
2 wife bought the place 14 years ago. I have
3 been living there with her for 12 years, I
4 have never been able to park in the garage.
5 So this is what precipitated all of this.
6 She parks her Honda, we have a
7 piece of carpet right against the post so she
8 can get her car in there.
9 So we decided we'd ask the
10 neighbors if they would be adverse to us
11 putting a garage between the two houses -- or
12 a driveway between the two houses and a
13 garage in the back. Nobody objected.
14 Everybody was good with it.
15 We went before the
16 construction board, they came and looked at
17 it. There is no problem whatsoever.
18 The whole idea being that we
19 are going to turn the existing garage into a
20 family room so that we'd have more space
21 because it's pretty limited.
22 Then we would both be able to
23 park our cars in the back.
24 The idea behind the variance
25 on the side and the back being that if we
1 could move the garage back a little bit, we
2 could drive it and it would enable us to back
3 out and drive out the driveway for safety
4 concerns. We don't want to be backing out
5 the driveway itself. That was the objective
7 Right behind the house itself
8 is a lot. It's a double lot, 60 by 120. The
9 gentleman who owns it, has no problem with us
10 putting a garage in there, looking for the
11 four foot variances. His building that he
12 will build there potentially is not going to
13 be anywhere near where we are at.
14 None of the neighbors seem to
15 have any issue with it whatsoever.
16 I know that the total lot
17 coverage was approximately 1 percent over
18 what the allowance is, and I actually have an
19 issue with the paperwork, as it is,
20 (inaudible). They said it was 41 percent of
21 the backyard. But it actually comes in at
22 25.5 percent.
23 I did the calculations, if you
24 want it here. I don't know if you want to
25 look at it.
1 But that was the goal. We
2 have a very small home. We'd like to able to
3 drive into the garage in the backyard, be
4 able to back out. I went and calculated the
5 turn radius of my van, so that I could be
6 assured that I could do that, and with the
7 two foot of extra space, I can get in the
8 garage, back up and drive out the driveway.
9 That's the objective there.
10 And obviously for both of us to be able park
11 in the garage and have a family room and some
12 space because the house itself is very, very.
13 That's it.
14 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you, sir.
15 Is there anyone in the
16 audience who would like to make a comment
17 regarding this particular case, please raise
18 your hand.
19 (No audible responses.)
20 CHAIRMAN IBE: Seeing none, I will
21 ask our secretary to read into the record any
23 MS. KRIEGER: In Case No. 12-030,
24 77 were mailed, 11 returned, five approvals,
25 zero objections.
1 The first one is from Alana
2 Erb on the East Side Lake Drive, she
3 approves. She just circled the approval.
4 The next one is the same
5 thing, circled approved from Margaret
7 The third one is approval
8 circled from Carl Sheppi. "In my opinion,
9 the detached garage will improve the
10 property, therefore, increasing the value and
11 value of adjacent properties."
12 The fourth one is approval
13 circled. "We approve of all requested
14 variances to allow construction of the
15 attached garage at 1409 East Lake. Because
16 of the small lot sizes, many residents,
17 including myself, have successfully
18 petitioned the zoning boards for relief.
19 Thank you." From Drew and Sue Soborowski.
20 That's it.
21 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you, Member
23 We will now turn to the city
24 for any comment they may have on this case.
25 MS. SAARELA: I have none.
1 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you.
2 MR. BOULARD: Point of
3 clarification, if I could.
4 The reason when we calculated
5 the coverage for the rear yard, the maximum
6 allowed in the code is for the required rear
7 yard, not the actual rear yard.
8 So when we looked at the area
9 of the rear yard, we used just the rear
10 35 feet of that. That's why the number came
11 out differently in the report.
12 MR. BROOKE: I was confused. I
13 measured it all out and I calculated it and
14 it just didn't make sense to me.
15 MR. BOULARD: It's just the last
16 35 feet of it. That's why the number came
17 out differently.
18 One question, if I could.
19 Unless I'm mistaken, a 22 by 24-foot garage
20 would comply with all the requirements. If
21 it was 22 foot by 24 feet, 528 feet, we would
22 get you the rear setbacks and so on, but
23 obviously -- what you're asking for is
24 slightly larger than that -- well, quite a
25 bit larger than that. So I wondered if you
1 could kind of walk us through that.
2 MR. BROOKE: The goal being to park
3 both cars, and then with a little bit extra
4 room, I would be in compliance with some
5 added trusses. I know that they have to be
6 14 foot at the median of the attic truss,
7 which means that I need some space to put a
8 set of stairs up there, and then I would add
9 some storage space up top.
10 So I mean, I store stuff in
11 the attic all the time. I'm storing it on
12 the stairs. We live right on the lake, you
13 know, we have got stuff everywhere. It's
14 extremely difficult.
15 And you know, to be honest
16 with you, my kids, their friends don't come
17 over in the winter, they go to other kids'
18 places because is there is nowhere to play.
19 So the family room is going to
20 solve that, then be able to have storage,
21 whatnot inside, and have nice set of stairs,
22 get your cars in, have a little bit of room
23 to store a couple things. Then have the
24 stairs go up and have some attic space.
25 Just would be a good facility
1 for us. The house is really small. It's 850
2 square foot footprint on a double lot. Most
3 people have, you know, bigger footprint than
4 that on a single lot. That's why.
5 And we have the lot across, as
6 you can see, from the paperwork.
7 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you,
8 Mr. Boulard.
9 I will now open it up to the
10 board for discussion. Yes, Member Sanghvi.
11 MR. SANGHVI: Thank you. Question,
12 sir, how big is your house?
13 MR. BROOKE: Total living area?
14 MR. SANGHVI: Living area, yeah.
15 MR. BROOKE: I would say it's 1,200
16 some square feet, 1,300 square feet.
17 MR. SANGHVI: And the new garage
18 that you are trying to propose to do is how
20 MR. BROOKE: It's 850 square feet
21 in the backyard. So we would take the
22 existing garage, which is 18 by 20 and make
23 that a family room. So I mean, we would end
24 up with, you know, 1,600 square feet, 1,700
25 square feet.
1 MR. SANGHVI: What I'm trying to
2 say, do you think it is proportionate to the
3 size of the living area, your garage?
4 MR. BROOKE: I think it is. I
5 think it will work out well because we are on
6 a double lot. The garage will not be, you
7 know, too large.
8 As you say, the backyard
9 itself, you're only taking the first 35 feet,
10 but there is another -- it's 50 some feet
11 from the back of the house to the lot line,
12 by 60. It's a large, large area.
13 MR. SANGHVI: Thank you.
14 CHAIRMAN IBE: Member Skelcy?
15 MS. SKELCY: Do you have a basement
16 in the house?
17 MR. BROOKE: No.
18 MS. SKELCY: Thank you.
19 CHAIRMAN IBE: Yes, Member Ghannam.
20 MR. GHANNAM: We have had a number
21 over the years, at least since I have been
22 here, of houses on the lake that have
23 requested garages.
24 I understand how you explained
25 it where you have an existing garage, but
1 realistically you can't use it.
2 So to me it does make sense
3 what you're doing, you're converting that to
4 living space, and adding a two-car garage
5 with some extra space.
6 Generally I have no problem
7 with that. My always concern is like safety
8 issues with the fire marshal. Is this
9 something they would input in, if there was
10 an issue with it?
11 MR. BOULARD: The building code
12 would require ratings on the exterior wall,
13 so the garage, those facing the property
14 lines, as they get closer to the property
15 line, the rating would increase, to decrease
16 the likelihood of a fire in the garage
17 impacting any neighboring properties.
18 MR. GHANNAM: So, I mean, given
19 those safety precautions that you would be
20 required to take anyway, I would have no
21 problem with this request.
22 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you. Yes,
23 Member Krieger.
24 MS. KRIEGER: I guess just to
25 clarify. There is the big tree on the one
1 side so the driveway would go around the
2 other side?
3 MR. BROOKE: Yes, on the left.
4 MS. KRIEGER: Okay. Thank you.
5 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you, Member
7 Do we have any other comments
8 or questions?
9 (No audible responses.)
10 CHAIRMAN IBE: Seeing none, I will
11 entertain a motion. Yes.
12 MR. GHANNAM: I will make a motion
13 in Case. No. 12-030, for 1409 East Lake
14 Drive, move to grant the petition as
16 There are unique circumstances
17 and conditions of the property, such as the
18 narrowness, shallowness, shape, water,
19 topography and similar conditions. And the
20 need for the variance is not due to the
21 applicant's personal or economic difficulty.
22 The need is certainly not
23 self-created. Strict compliance with
24 regulations such as setback, frontage, height
25 and so forth, would unreasonably prevent that
1 property owner from using the property for a
2 permitted purpose.
3 The requested variance is the
4 minimum variance necessary to do substantial
5 justice to the applicant and the other
6 property owners in the district. And the
7 requested variance will not cause adverse
8 impact on surrounding property values or the
9 use and enjoyment of the property
10 neighborhood or zoning district.
11 MS. KRIEGER: Second.
12 CHAIRMAN IBE: Seeing that a motion
13 has been made and seconded, do we have any
14 further conversation regarding this motion?
15 (No audible responses.)
16 CHAIRMAN IBE: Seeing none, please
17 call the roll.
18 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Gedeon?
19 MR. GEDEON: Yes.
20 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Ghannam?
21 MR. GHANNAM: Yes.
22 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Chairman Ibe?
23 CHAIRMAN IBE: Yes.
24 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Krieger?
25 MS. KRIEGER: Yes. yes.
1 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Sanghvi?
2 MR. SANGHVI: Yes.
3 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Skelcy?
4 MS. SKELCY: Yes.
5 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Motion passes six
6 to zero.
7 MR. BROOKE: Thank you.
8 CHAIRMAN IBE: Congratulations.
9 We are now going to go to
10 other matters on the agenda. Do we have any
11 other matters that need to be addressed by
12 the board?
13 MS. KRIEGER: Mr. Valenti at the
14 end of the meeting wanted to have something
15 to say.
16 CHAIRMAN IBE: Yes, Mr. Valenti.
17 MR. VALENTI: Thank you for your
18 indulgence. It's related to a temporary for
19 rent sign that I'm trying to place.
20 I had placed the sign and an
21 ordinance officer asked me to move it to the
22 other side of the street. This is Twelve
23 Mile, M5, Summit Drive. I have a map.
24 In order to comply with the
25 ordinance, this sign would not be visible.
1 Then, further investigation,
2 was told it would take until September to get
3 on the agenda, and I'm not sure -- my request
4 was for some advice because I'm asking for
5 some relief in the fact that it would appear
6 that a variance would be logical because you
7 could not see the sign.
8 Part of this is because of the
9 property lines that were redrawn because our
10 home was condemned due to the Haggerty
11 connector road that was built, and the new
13 And I'm asking to be able to
14 place the sign or some guidance as to how I
15 might expedite.
16 Otherwise, the home had been
17 rented for the last five years, it would be a
18 temporary sign. I expect to -- you know, to
19 rent again. But my renter is leaving at the
20 end of this month, and again, I had posted
21 the sign and an ordinance officer had told me
22 that it was compliant, only now finding today
23 through many phone calls through the city
24 where I stand is that again, if it meets
25 the -- if I placed it within the ordinance,
1 the sign would not visible. I have a map
2 here just to clarify that.
3 I guess, I don't understand if
4 it's appropriate of an interim variance or
5 something. Given the circumstances, and I'm
6 a 50 year resident of the city, former parks
7 and rec commissioner.
8 I'd like some guidance as to
9 what might be a logical answer to my dilemma.
10 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you,
11 Mr. Valenti. I will refer the question to
12 Mr. Boulard here.
13 MR. BOULARD: Just one question
14 before I go any further. Is the proposal
15 location, is it on your property or in the
16 public right-of-way?
17 MR. VALENTI: It would be in the
18 public right-of-way because the setback would
19 be in the woodlands area.
20 What it requires is from the
21 property line, the setback, I think is like
22 36 feet from Twelve Mile on one side and 56
23 on another.
24 The ordinance officer asked me
25 to move it because it was in the oncoming
1 right-of-way of Twelve Mile westbound, to the
2 west side of Summit Drive, which isn't a
3 visual obstruction for traffic.
4 Again, it's a temporary sign,
5 two by three foot for rent sign. I don't
6 know if that answers your question.
7 MR. GEDEON: Does your property
8 afront more than one road?
9 MR. VALENTI: Yes. The property is
10 the corner of Summit Drive and Twelve Mile.
11 MR. GEDEON: Is there
12 availability -- is it because you want the
13 more visibilty on Twelve Mile, is that the
15 MR. VALENTI: It would be both.
16 And to use the setback on Summit Drive
17 because of the relocation of Summit Drive due
18 to the Haggerty connector road, there is a
19 six-inch gas main, so the property line is
20 actually at the very peak of the hill. So
21 half way between the house and property line,
22 would drop the sign behind and would not be
23 visible from the street either.
24 So I think in both cases, I
25 don't have a choice.
1 MR. BOULARD: Sir, if I may, you
2 said you had a map. Could you put it on the
4 MR. VALENTI: Absolutely. I have
5 two because I couldn't get them all on the
6 same one at the library. Let me show you the
7 Twelve Mile frontage here. As you can see,
8 this is north, going up. This is the
9 frontage of the house there. This is the
10 property line here, approximately, and then
11 as the ordinance reads, it would be half way
12 between the property line and the home, which
13 would be right here in the middle of the
15 And then the alternate
16 location, showing a little further north, the
17 property line is now here because this is all
18 a six-inch gas main that was required to be
19 outside of the interchange when they built
20 the M5 connector, so the ordinance would read
21 half way between the property line and the
22 home, which I have drawn approximately here.
23 But this is a high point, so
24 this sign would be not visible from the road
25 either. Plus this is a very steep hill, for
1 those who may be familiar with the area of
2 Summit Drive and Twelve Mile.
3 So in either case, the sign
4 would not be visible at all.
5 MR. BOULARD: I guess, if I may, my
6 suggestion would be to work with the
7 ordinance officers to find an acceptable
8 spot. I think they would probably be willing
9 to do that. Realizing that, you know, you've
10 got some particulars to the site. I believe
11 it would be outside the purview of the board
12 to grant you a variance for a sign in the
13 right-of-way, in the public right-of-way.
14 Just my thought. I think
15 you'll probably find, it's probably not going
16 to be, you know, right out on the main road
17 there. Maybe there is an area at the edge of
18 the property that would be clear that --
19 MR. VALENTI: I guess that's what I
20 was hopeful, right at the edge where the
21 forest begins, that the sign would be back
22 right at that particular place, so it would
23 not be a hinderance to traffic or anything,
24 and a temporary two by three foot sign.
25 MR. BOULARD: I guess I would
1 suggest that if the sign -- if there is a
2 location that we can look at outside of the
3 right-of-way that we could work with the
4 ordinance folks to give you as much visibilty
5 as possible without moving the sign out in
6 the public right-of-way. That would be my
8 MR. VALENTI: I guess just to
9 clarify. Anything outside of the
10 right-of-way would not be visible because of
11 the -- I guess the hardship that was created
12 by the new lines that were drawn due to the
13 M5 property condemnation, the taking of the
14 property and the lines that were left
15 following that.
16 MR. BOULARD: I guess I think there
17 may be a spot, it may not be the ideal,
18 visible from all directions.
19 I mean, the frontage of the
20 house is -- the primary frontage is actually
21 on Summit Drive. But the board can't grant a
22 variance without having the proper
23 advertisement and notice for the public and
24 your neighbors and so on.
25 Then there would still be the
1 issue of the right-of-way -- the public
2 right-of-way, we would have to deal with the
3 insurance and liability and so on with the
4 Department of Public Services.
5 So I don't believe it would be
6 appropriate for the board to act tonight.
7 MR. VALENTI: I understand. I'm
8 not asking for that. I mentioned that
9 interim variance, which was a creative
10 suggestion by someone.
11 I guess my question though is
12 that I spent a lot of time today, everyone
13 was sending me back to the other part of the
14 city. And I went back and forth through
15 ordinance officers, zoning, engineering.
16 And I guess -- then I found
17 out that there was a meeting tonight, and I
18 also that if I didn't get some kind of
19 guidance, that I was looking at September.
20 I think it's a very unique
21 circumstance, and I guess if I could meet
22 with someone perhaps to talk about some
23 possible avenues of what I need to do because
24 I'm willing to do whatever is necessary.
25 The only thing is, I went on
1 the word of the ordinance officer that I was
2 okay. I would have started this two months
3 ago, trust me.
4 MR. BOULARD: I won't be in the
5 office tomorrow, but I would be happy to meet
6 with you the day after to assist you.
7 MR. VALENTI: Thursday?
8 MR. BOULARD: Yes, to help any way
9 I can.
10 MR. VALENTI: That's very generous.
11 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you,
12 Mr. Valenti.
13 MR. VALENTI: Did you need my
14 spelling for the record?
15 CHAIRMAN IBE: Yes, if you don't
16 mind, please.
17 MR. VALENTI: V, as in Victor,
18 a-l-e-n-t-i, Nick, 27925 Summit Drive. Thank
20 CHAIRMAN IBE: Thank you. Good
21 luck, sir.
22 MR. SANGHVI: This is a very old
23 issue going back to the building of the M5
24 and the widening of the Twelve Mile and the
25 whole configuration of the area changed many,
1 many years ago. It's all in relation in that
3 CHAIRMAN IBE: Do we have any other
4 matters that the board wants to recognize at
5 this time?
6 (No audible response.)
7 CHAIRMAN IBE: Seeing none, can I
8 entertain a motion for an adjournment?
9 MR. SANGHVI: So moved.
10 MS. KRIEGER: Second.
11 CHAIRMAN IBE: All those in favor
12 say aye.
13 THE BOARD: Aye.
14 CHAIRMAN IBE: All those against?
15 (No audible responses.)
16 CHAIRMAN IBE: Seeing none, the
17 meeting is hereby adjourned. Thank you.
18 (The meeting was adjourned at 8:19 p.m.)
19 ** ** **
1 STATE OF MICHIGAN )
2 ) ss.
3 COUNTY OF OAKLAND )
4 I, Jennifer L. Wall, Notary Public within and for the
5 County of Oakland, State of Michigan, do hereby certify that the
6 hearing above, that the statements given by said individuals was
7 stenographically recorded in the presence of myself and others,
8 afterward transcribed by computer under my personal supervision,
9 and that the said statements are a full, true and correct
10 transcript of the statements given by the individuals.
11 I further certify that I am not connected by blood or
12 marriage with any of the parties or their attorneys, and that I
13 am not an employee of any of them, nor financially interested in
14 the action.
15 IN WITNESS THEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand at the
16 City of Walled Lake, County of Oakland, State of Michigan.
19 ________________ _________________________
Date Jennifer L. Wall CSR-4183
20 Oakland County, Michigan
My Commission Expires 11/12/15