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View Action Summary for this meeting

Tuesday, February 14, 2012

Proceedings had and Testimony taken in the matter of the ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS, at City of Novi, 45175 West Ten Mile Road, Novi, Michigan, on Tuesday, January 10, 2012

David Ghannam, Chairman
Mav Sanghvi
Linda Krieger
Rickie Ibe

Charles Boulard, Building Official
Beth Saarela, City Attorney
Coordinator: Angela Pawlowski, Recording Secretary

REPORTED BY: Jennifer L. Wall, Certified Shorthand Reporter

1 Novi, Michigan.

2 Tuesday, February 14, 2012

3 7:00 p.m.

4 ** ** **

5 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Good evening

6 everybody. Welcome to the February 14th,

7 2012 Zoning Board of Appeals meeting. We are

8 going start off by saying our Pledge

9 Allegiance.

10 If Member Gerblick can start us

11 off, please.

12 (The Pledge of Allegiance was recited.)


14 Next, Ms. Pawlowski, can you please call the

15 roll.

16 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Gedeon,

17 absent excused. Member Gerblick?

18 MR. GERBLICK: Here.

19 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Chairman Ghannam?


21 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Ibe?

22 MR. IBE: Present.

23 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Krieger?

24 MS. KRIEGER: Here.

25 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Sanghvi?



1 MR. SANGHVI: Present.

2 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Skelcy,

3 absent excused.


5 public hearing format and rules. We do have

6 rules in the back. I will go over a few of

7 them.

8 First you need to turn off your

9 pagers and cellphones during our meeting so

10 we don't have any disruptions.

11 When your case is called, the

12 applicant or their representative will be

13 asked to come forward, state their name and

14 addresses and be sworn by our secretary.

15 You will be allowed five minutes to

16 address the Board, or that can be extended at

17 the discretion of the Chair.

18 The public will also be invited to

19 make a comment on the particular cases that

20 comes up before us.

21 Next is our approval of the agenda.

22 Are there any additions or modifications to

23 the agenda?


25 12-003 at 46290 Nine Mile has asked to be



1 withdrawn.

2 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Anything else?


4 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Seeing none,

5 anything from the members in terms of the

6 modification to the agenda?

7 Seeing none, I will entertain a

8 motion to approve the agenda as modified.

9 MR. SANGHVI: So moved.

10 MR. IBE: Second.

11 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Seeing a motion

12 and a second, all in favor say aye.

13 THE BOARD: Aye.

14 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Any opposed?

15 Seeing none, our agenda is approved as

16 modified.

17 Next is our approval of the

18 minutes. We have two sets. The first one

19 will be the December 13th, 2011 minutes. Are

20 there any additions or modifications to that?

21 Seeing none, I will entertain a

22 motion.

23 MR. SANGHVI: Can I make a motion

24 to approve the minutes as presented.

25 MS. KRIEGER: Second.




2 further discussion on the December 13th, 2011

3 minutes?

4 Seeing none, all in favor say aye.


6 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Any opposed?

7 Seeing none, our December 13th, 2011 minutes

8 are approved.

9 Next is our approval of the January

10 10, 2012 minutes of the meeting. Any

11 corrections or modifications to that?

12 Ms. Kudla -- or I'm sorry.

13 Ms. Saarela?

14 MS. SAARELA: Just page 109, line

15 three, it was said consider a date certain.

16 It says certainly, but it was a date certain.

17 That's it.

18 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Anything else?

19 If not, I will entertain a motion to approve

20 these minutes.

21 MR. SANGHVI: I make a motion to

22 approve the minutes as amended.

23 MR. IBE: Second.

24 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Seeing a motion

25 and a second, all in favor say aye.




2 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Any opposed?

3 Seeing none, our January 10, 2012 minutes are

4 approved as amended.

5 Next is our public remarks section.

6 Is there anybody in the public who would like

7 to make a comment not on a case before us

8 tonight for any reason?

9 Seeing none -- actually, before I

10 close the public remarks section, I will make

11 a comment, at this point, as you can see, for

12 the applicants, we have five members here

13 today. Our full board consists of seven

14 members.

15 In either event, regardless of how

16 many members are here, you do need four votes

17 to pass any type of request. If there is

18 anybody at this point who would like to

19 adjourn or table their matter until a

20 different session or a different month, when

21 we have a full board, I will allow those

22 people or applicants to come forward and make

23 that request at this point.

24 Is there anybody who would like to

25 make that request instead of waiting



1 throughout the evening?

2 Okay. Seeing none, I will then

3 close the public remarks section and move

4 into our first case.

5 We have Case No. 11-047 for 43155

6 Main Street, the Mixx Sports Bar. The

7 applicant here? Please come forward, sir.

8 Even though you have been sworn

9 before, we are going to swear you in again.

10 By the way, Ms. Saarela, do we need

11 to appoint a new secretary because Member

12 Skelcy is not here?

13 MS. SAARELA: Yes.

14 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Should we do by

15 motion?

16 MS. SAARELA: Just by motion.

17 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: I move that we

18 have Member Ibe act as our temporary

19 secretary for today's meeting. Any seconds?

20 MS. KRIEGER: Second.

21 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Seeing a motion

22 and a second, all in favor say aye.

23 THE BOARD: Aye.

24 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Any opposed?

25 Seeing none, Member Ibe is our temporary



1 secretary for today's meeting.

2 So if our secretary can swear you

3 in, sir. Can you raise your right hand.

4 MR. IBE: In Case Number 11-047,

5 for 43155 Main Street, Suite 502, Mixx Sports

6 Bar. Do you swear or affirm to tell the

7 truth?


9 MR. IBE: Thank you.

10 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: I know you were

11 on the previous month, so do you have

12 anything additional to present to us today?

13 MR. JOHNSON: Yes. The owner of

14 Mixx Sports Bar, Timothy Brow (ph), is

15 passing out some information and then also I

16 have --

17 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: State your name,

18 sir.

19 MR. JOHNSON: Mark R. Johnson, MJR

20 Sign Company.

21 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Just give us

22 your address for the record, please.

23 MR. JOHNSON: Sure, 256 Narrin

24 Street, Ortonville, Michigan 48462.

25 After being here last month, we



1 took a look at what we were proposing, and

2 the first step was to take the size of the

3 sign down from the 49 square feet originally

4 requested to the size of the square footage

5 that would be allowed for a single face wall

6 sign.

7 Then we also looked at the site

8 lines involved and looked at foot traffic and

9 other things, if any, that would happen on

10 the property given that they are the

11 southwest corner of the building and

12 basically the last business on the block, so

13 to speak.

14 What you have that was passed out

15 here to you this evening, is the Novi

16 building district, shows that when we were

17 here last month, it was kind commented that

18 there were single-faced flat signs against

19 the building along Main Street, along that

20 south elevation.

21 When, in fact, there is only two

22 other -- a couple other businesses on that

23 entire stretch all the way to the corner of

24 the Post Bar, where you see the Post Bar sign

25 and the BD's Mongolian BBQ sign, that



1 actually are even leased. The vast majority

2 of the entire center is vacant. And, in

3 fact, there has been tenants that have moved

4 from the Main Street development across the

5 street, to be in the out buildings

6 surrounding Novi Town Center because of lack

7 of exposure.

8 The type of sign in your sign

9 design review manual that was written for

10 this specific project, lends itself more to a

11 true downtown setting with frequent and large

12 amounts of pedestrian traffic.

13 Unfortunately, obviously, the

14 development as it was originally intended,

15 never came to its full completion, hence the

16 vacant space between this building and Novi

17 Road.

18 In so doing though, you have to be

19 able to take people that are coming to this

20 establishment, from, for instance, radio

21 advertising. They advertise on WJR.

22 When you come down, and I actually

23 did this with my wife a few weeks back when

24 we were shopping, I said, okay, this is where

25 we are going, you drive there.



1 She came down Novi Road, she got to

2 Main Street, she took her left, and then as

3 she got down a little ways, because, of

4 course, that's the way the GPS would take her

5 in, the shortest route, Novi to Main and then

6 left and down, finally she saw the -- our

7 mock-up sign that is still up, and she said,

8 oh, that's where it is.

9 And my comment to her was, without

10 that there, what would you have done when you

11 got to that first cross path, that first

12 cross drive there, service drive. I think I

13 went to the wrong place. You know, people do

14 not look and search, if you will, and in this

15 case, this location for this sports bar is

16 almost on an abandoned alley, for lack of a

17 better way to put it.

18 We also looked at the design of the

19 sign. Again, the design review manual

20 basically talks about sand blasted signs. It

21 allows for interior illuminated signs, but

22 not only front interior only, silhouette lit,

23 where the Mixx Lounge sign is.

24 But that also lends itself to a

25 different type of business than what the



1 operators are trying to successfully run

2 here. Keeping in mind that they took over

3 Mixx Lounge on the virge -- when Mixx Lounge

4 was on the virge of bankruptcy and closing

5 up.

6 So what they're trying to do is, to

7 be it a destination, and have all that other

8 advertising work, once you get onto the

9 property, you have to be able to find them.

10 If you come in off Grand River, you

11 get to the intersection there, you know,

12 semi-roundabout past the Post Bar, there is

13 nothing that is going to entice you to turn

14 right and head down that way. You have to

15 see something that catches your eye. It's

16 not a matter of necessarily reading it. It's

17 a matter of looking for something and having

18 to be able to get to that corner, look down

19 and say, oh, maybe, that's it, that sort of

20 thing.

21 So while we've taken it down to the

22 square footage, I know there is numerous

23 variances that are being requested, we have

24 taken it down a little bit in square footage,

25 we really feel this what is needed for the



1 business to be successful there.

2 Or if all of those business were

3 thriving, you didn't what appears, and I

4 haven't done the math or anything, but what

5 appears to be an 80 plus percent vacancy rate

6 in this building, you would have enough

7 traffic of people going to those adjoining

8 businesses, that they would -- it would help

9 build the word of mouth and help build off

10 the advertising and everything so that the

11 business could be successful.

12 Unfortunately, we really don't have

13 that here. So what we have done is we've

14 taken down the square footage, but

15 respectfully we feel that considering the

16 fact that this is now actually smaller than

17 the BD Mongolian BBQ sign, which is on the

18 same property, I know that that was from a

19 different ordinance, you know, before the

20 revisions were made, it is still in keeping

21 with the type of general signage in the area.

22 You have channel letters on the properties,

23 for instance, where Better Health Market is,

24 which happens to be one of my customers as

25 well.



1 Even though that's not in that

2 exact building, with its exact zoning, it --

3 to the general public, Andiamo, all those

4 buildings kind of coincide one, and here you

5 have the sports bar off in the corner

6 struggling in order to gain exposure and for

7 people to be able to find them.

8 Now -- Tim, would you like to say

9 anything?

10 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Raise your right

11 hand and be sworn, sir.

12 MR. IBE: Sir, in Case 11-047,

13 43155, do you swear to affirm to tell the

14 truth?

15 MR. BROW: I do.

16 MR. IBE: Thank you.

17 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: State your name,

18 please.

19 MR. BROW: Timothy Brow. Chairman

20 and Members, what I really wanted to stress

21 here is our true hardship.

22 I have been before the Zoning Board

23 of Appeals in the past. I am a home builder.

24 I wanted to stress a true hardship,

25 in which we have presented to the Zoning



1 Board of Appeals in the past.

2 We have got a true hardship in the

3 downtown district. We have got a huge amount

4 of vacancies. We have got streetlights out

5 that we are contending with constant, garbage

6 being thrown in the street, we send employees

7 out to pick up, overgrown weeds. It's a

8 very, very difficult district to work in.

9 So what I'm pleading is, that this

10 is a true hardship that we are trying to work

11 against. That's what I'm trying to plead the

12 case for.

13 What those pictures are is to show

14 almost every business in the area, and there

15 was comments made last time, that the BD sign

16 just looked -- it didn't look like it fit. I

17 think it's the last picture, I think it looks

18 fantastic on our building. I think they did

19 a great job.

20 I think The Post is a little bit

21 overwhelming. But if you look at BD's sign,

22 I think it looks fantastic on the building.

23 There was also a comment in the

24 last meeting, it was due to the fact that

25 they were a single story building. We are



1 the exact same. We are identical. The

2 buildings are identical to ours. The BD's

3 building is a two-story building, as it shows

4 in the picture. Is it the exact same

5 architecture as ours.

6 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Thank you, sir.

7 Anything else?



10 Now, at this point, I'm going to

11 open it up to the public. Is there anybody

12 in the public who would like to make a

13 comment on this specific case?

14 Seeing none, I will close the

15 public remarks section and ask our secretary

16 to read any correspondence.

17 MR. IBE: Mr. Chair, there are no

18 changes from the previous readings that were

19 on 1/10/2012.

20 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Any comments or

21 issues with the City?


23 MR. BOULARD: The only point I want

24 to bring up was there was some confusion last

25 meeting regarding the previous variances, so



1 I had Jeannie Niland research those and some

2 information on those is in your packet.

3 Thank you.

4 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: I will open it

5 up to the Board to for discussion. Member

6 Krieger?

7 MS. KRIEGER: Question, I noticed

8 that -- well, for the Post Bar and the

9 Mongolian BBQ -- I can't remember the name of

10 the other bar that's closed around the

11 corner.

12 MR. GERBLICK: Gus O'Connors.

13 MS. KRIEGER: Yes, thank you. If

14 those two businesses were to leave, what

15 would happen to the signs, if some new

16 business came in?

17 MR. BOULARD: Assuming that a new

18 business wanted to have a different sign,

19 they would be required to have a sign permit

20 and that would be rev viewed, that sign would

21 be reviewed in accordance with the ordinance.

22 MS. KRIEGER: That was my first

23 question. Thank you.

24 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Okay. Anybody

25 else? Actually while we are thinking about,



1 I have got a couple questions for you, sir.

2 What's the difference between your

3 original proposal for square footage? I know

4 you mentioned a number. I didn't write that

5 down between your original proposal and

6 today's discussion as to what you needed.

7 MR. JOHNSON: We have gone from 49

8 square feet, which was what the BD's

9 Mongolian BBQ sign was, which is why we

10 patterned it at that size.

11 And we went and we measured the

12 length of the building and determined that

13 the building would be allowed 43.44, just

14 under 43 and a half square feet, of sign area

15 to be placed flat against the building.

16 And since we are looking at this in

17 lieu of the building sign, of course, there

18 would be no building sign for this

19 establishment in the future, we then

20 patterned our new design for that same square

21 footage.

22 In essence, the difference, of

23 course, being it's a projecting sign, so that

24 we can get exposure, so as people come into

25 the property, they actually take the time and



1 notice them and find them.

2 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: So your request

3 today is for 43 and a half?

4 MR. JOHNSON: Correct, just under

5 that.


7 Mr. Boulard, is that a correct statement that

8 he would be entitled to about 43 and a half,

9 if it was a flat sign, does that make sense?

10 MR. BOULARD: I don't have the

11 calculations in front of me. I can do that.

12 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: But they would

13 be entitled to one sign on the building, but

14 just flat against the building?

15 MR. BOULARD: Yes.

16 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: The difference

17 here is that they're simply asking it to be

18 projected away from the building?

19 MR. BOULARD: Right.

20 MR. JOHNSON: Again --

21 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Hold on, sir.

22 MR. BOULARD: I guess my follow-up

23 question would be if the Board is inclined to

24 consider the revised request, one of the

25 other variances would just be -- I think it



1 would be important to note how the other

2 variances change, if at all.

3 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: That's actually

4 a good question. What would be the

5 dimensions of this proposed sign?

6 MR. JOHNSON: This sign a five foot

7 eight inches tall by seven-eight long, so you

8 still have the width, you would still have

9 the overall height variances. But the

10 question, and two of the other variances were

11 to A, that it is a channel letter sign, which

12 is still is, but also the type of

13 illumination.

14 Now, if you go to the -- I don't

15 know if you have been out to the property in

16 the evening, but if you look at the BD's

17 Mongolian BBQ, the sign, the way it

18 illuminates, the entire circle, if you will,

19 lights up, including the background and

20 everything of that nature, has a glow to it.

21 The way this is going to be done,

22 just the word Mixx, the sports bar, and then

23 the beer draft logo will illuminate.

24 The actual copy, the blue that you

25 see on the top and everything of that nature,



1 during the night, that will disappear because

2 there is no internal illumination.

3 So what we have done is we have

4 changed it, also from the idea or the concept

5 of a plastic background, if you will, to a

6 metal background, so it's at least a little

7 bit more in keeping with what they call a

8 board sign with raised letters that will

9 actually -- you know, so that there is less

10 lighting at night and hopefully it will be

11 able to have that be enough that people will

12 catch it.

13 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: State the width

14 and the height again, please.

15 MR. JOHNSON: The height is five

16 foot eight inches and the width seven foot

17 eight inches.

18 So we have taken down the length by

19 six inches and we have taken down the height

20 by four inches.

21 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Why am I -- on

22 your original proposal that I'm reading, it

23 says the sign width proposed eight feet two

24 inches?

25 MR. JOHNSON: Correct.



1 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: You're proposing

2 five feet eight inches?

3 MR. JOHNSON: No, seven feet, eight

4 inches.

5 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: I'm sorry, okay.

6 I have got them mixed up here. Seven feet

7 eight.

8 MR. JOHNSON: Six inches less in

9 width, four inches less in height,

10 proportionately shrunk.

11 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: And then that's

12 width. Now, the height you said was five

13 foot eight inches?

14 MR. JOHNSON: Correct.


16 proposal, your original proposal was what?

17 MR. JOHNSON: Our original proposal

18 was for six feet.


20 seeing that on the original proposal?

21 MR. SANGHVI: It's not there.

22 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: On our original

23 proposal it says sign height is 17 feet six

24 inches?

25 MR. JOHNSON: That's the height



1 from the top of the sign to grade.


3 saying the actual sign would be five foot

4 eight inches?

5 MR. JOHNSON: Eight inches,

6 correct. Which would also lessen that seven

7 feet six.

8 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: You're saying

9 the blue trim around the sign would be

10 basically visible during the day but not at

11 night because it won't be illuminated?

12 MR. JOHNSON: Correct.

13 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: And did you say

14 that the rest of it, the words Mixx Sports

15 Bar and the draft would be internally

16 illuminated?

17 MR. JOHNSON: Correct.

18 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: All right. In

19 general, I mean, originally when you came, I

20 did have issues with this because of our very

21 strict sign ordinance.

22 I understand the difficulties of

23 the center, not that it necessarily applies

24 to every single building or tenant of this

25 property. But I do understand the



1 difficulties that the tenant is having, and

2 the applicant.

3 So I think under the circumstances

4 even though it's not perfect, I would be in

5 support of this particular proposal, based on

6 your modifications.

7 Anybody else have any comments or

8 questions? Nothing?

9 Member Gerblick, you want to make a

10 motion?

11 MR. GERBLICK: I think in general I

12 would be in support of it as well, especially

13 with all the businesses on the same street

14 who have similar signs, and I understand for

15 all the reasons that you mentioned it's a

16 difficult location to bring foot traffic.

17 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Anybody want to

18 try a motion, unless there is anymore

19 comments or questions? Member Ibe.

20 MR. IBE: In Case Number 11-047,

21 43155 Main Street, Suite 502, Mixx Sports

22 Bar.

23 I move that we grant the request

24 made by the applicant, as modified by the

25 applicant, that being that the proposed sign



1 area would be 43.43 square foot, and seven

2 feet eight inches in width and 5.8 inches in

3 height.

4 And the reasons to grant this

5 proposal as modified by the applicant as

6 follows: One, that the request is based upon

7 circumstances or features that are

8 exceptional and unique to the property and do

9 not result from conditions that exist

10 generally in the city or that are

11 self-created.

12 Although the sign itself is not

13 (inaudible) by Mr. Chairman, however, the

14 conditions that have been described in this

15 locality, in this vicinity itself, present

16 such unique circumstance that this applicant

17 should be given an opportunity to erect this

18 sign.

19 Second, the failure to grant relief

20 will unreasonably prevent or limit the use of

21 the property and will result in substantially

22 more than mere inconvenience or inability to

23 attain a higher economic or financial return.

24 Now, the applicant here is a

25 business that of course is in a very



1 distressed area. And distressed in the sense

2 that you have quite a high vacancy in the

3 area, and in order to allow this business to

4 at least give it a chance to thrive, it is

5 best that this sign be given the opportunity,

6 so that the business can be able to attain

7 the required financial return that it

8 desires.

9 Finally, the grant of relief will

10 not result in a structure incompatible or

11 unreasonably interfere with adjacent

12 surrounding properties, will not result in --

13 will not interfere with other properties and

14 this also consistent with the spirit of the

15 zoning ordinance.

16 MS. KRIEGER: Second.

17 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Seeing a motion

18 and a second, any further discussion?

19 Seeing none, Ms. Pawlowski, will

20 you please call the roll.

21 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Gerblick?


23 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Chairman Ghannam?


25 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Ibe?



1 MR. IBE: Yes.

2 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Member Krieger?


4 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Sanghvi?


6 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Motion passes five

7 to zero.

8 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Congratulations,

9 sir.

10 MR. JOHNSON: Thank you.

11 May I ask that the temporary sign

12 remain in place until the permanent sign is

13 placed within the next three weeks at most?

14 Is that --

15 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Is that your

16 estimation?

17 MR. JOHNSON: Yeah, it's March

18 Madness, I have no choice.

19 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: We would need a

20 formal motion on that?

21 MS. SAARELA: Correct.

22 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Anybody would

23 like to make a motion on that

24 particular issue.

25 MR. IBE: Sure. I will move that



1 in Case No. 11-047, that we move that the

2 temporary mock-up sign remain in place for 21

3 days until the new sign is put in place.

4 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Maximum of 21

5 days.

6 MR. IBE: Maximum of 21 days.

7 MR. GERBLICK: Second.

8 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Seeing a motion

9 and a second, all in favor say aye.

10 THE BOARD: Aye.

11 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Any opposed?

12 Seeing none, that motion passes also, sir.

13 MR. JOHNSON: Okay, thank you.

14 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Next on our

15 agenda is Case No. 11-048, 41014 Scarborough.

16 Is the applicant here?

17 Good evening. Can you raise your

18 right hand, sir, and be sworn.

19 MR. IBE: In Case No. 11-048, 41014

20 Scarborough, do you swear or affirm to tell

21 the truth?

22 MR. CLARK: I do.


24 First of all, state your name, sir.

25 MR. CLARK: Robert Clark.



1 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: I know you have

2 been here before. What has changed since the

3 last time you have been here?

4 MR. CLARK: We have association

5 approval. I do have a packet for each of you

6 that will -- something that got, I think,

7 confused in the last one, did the customer go

8 around and talk to neighbors. So we have

9 three documents from neighbors that have

10 approved in this general area, along with the

11 association approval.

12 We explained to the association

13 that we had no intent of side-stepping the

14 approval. It was just a misunderstanding of

15 the order of approval.

16 Nothing has changed in the layout.

17 I didn't really see any negative comments in

18 the first meeting.

19 There was the one neighbor that

20 brought up the trees and there was -- it was

21 talked back and forth. Of course, the

22 association approval really, you know, kind

23 of took a stronghold on whether we would

24 either proceed at that point.

25 It's not that the homeowner is



1 against planting the -- well, I shouldn't say

2 he's not. He is against planting the trees,

3 but I guess he just doesn't understand the

4 reason why for the trees, something about

5 privacy.

6 And this is a room that's only

7 coming 10 feet away from the house. And I

8 think we came to the understanding I think,

9 Charles told me if it was an open deck it

10 could go out even much further that what the

11 structure of an enclosed structure is.

12 So I guess I look at it from both

13 sides, you know, from the neighbor side and

14 from the homeowners side.

15 You know, to call it a viewing room

16 or, you know -- short of calling themselves a

17 peeping Tom, I guess, in lack of better

18 words, we would just like to understand the

19 reason what the trees would do, for this

20 client -- or for the homeowner behind him.

21 Other than that, we're willing to

22 listen to anything.

23 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Anything else?

24 MR. CLARK: No, that's it.

25 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Is there anybody



1 who would like to make a comment on this

2 particular case?

3 Seeing none, I will close the

4 public remarks section and ask our secretary

5 if there is has been anything different from

6 the last time this case was called.

7 MR. IBE: No, Mr. Chair, nothing

8 different.

9 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Any comments or

10 additions from the City?

11 MS. SAARELA: Nothing.

12 MR. BOULARD: Nothing to add.


14 questions by the Board? Member Sanghvi?

15 MR. SANGHVI: All I want to make

16 the comment that they have complied with the

17 request of the Board. I don't see any reason

18 why not to approve this anymore. Thank you.

19 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Anything else?

20 I just had a couple of questions,

21 sir. I know the neighbors did want trees

22 planted. You said --

23 MR. CLARK: It was the neighbor's

24 straight behind, not adjacent to it.

25 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: It was still



1 acceptable to the homeowners to do that?

2 MR. CLARK: In a way I would say

3 no. I mean, he would like to understand it

4 better why the reason for trees. I mean,

5 it's, you know, kind of like calling up your

6 landscaping.

7 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: My recollection

8 is the gentleman to the back did show up at

9 the last meeting, and he did express his

10 reasons why he wanted the planting of trees.

11 Ms. Saarela, we can make that

12 contingent on planting some type of

13 shrubbery?

14 MS. SAARELA: You just need to

15 connect it to the reason for the variance.

16 I'm not sure if it was screening at that

17 point, but I think you could look back in

18 your back minutes, if you're unsure.

19 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Personally, sir,

20 I personally have no problems, given the

21 homeowner association approval and the

22 request.

23 I understood the other gentleman

24 who came before us and expressed his reasons

25 for shrubbery. To me, I know it's very



1 difficult for us to place that contingency

2 because I mean, I'm not going to sit there

3 and tell you what kind of trees to plant and

4 how high, how far apart. I don't generally

5 like to micromanage those types of issues,

6 but I would be in favor of granting the

7 request without contingencies while keeping

8 in mind the neighbor's sentiments. That's

9 all.

10 MR. CLARK: Very well.

11 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Anybody else

12 have any questions or comments?

13 MR. SANGHVI: Go back to the record

14 and find out the name of that neighbor who

15 had proposed it? I think we have three

16 signatures here of three different people who

17 have approved it separately.

18 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Yes, we do have

19 it as part of correspondence. I think it was

20 the same gentleman who came.

21 MR. IBE: Chris Huang, H-u-a-n-g.


23 questions, comments? If not, I will

24 entertain a motion at this point.

25 Member Krieger?



1 MS. KRIEGER: In Case No. 11-048,

2 41014 Scarborough, I move to approve the

3 applicant's request for the 35-foot required

4 rear yard setback, the variance of 11 feet in

5 order to build their addition, and that the

6 unique circumstances and physical conditions

7 of the property, such as the narrowness,

8 shallowness, shape, water, topography, or

9 similar physical conditions and the need for

10 the variance is not due to the applicant's

11 personal or economic difficulty, that along

12 this line of houses on the Google map you can

13 see that this area is a little more narrow

14 and that the need is not self-created, that

15 the strict compliance with regulation

16 governing area, setback, frontage height,

17 bulk density or other dimensional

18 requirements will unreasonably prevent the

19 property owner from using the property for a

20 permitted use or will render conformity with

21 those regulations unnecessarily burdensome.

22 That the requested variance is the

23 minimum variance necessary to do substantial

24 justice to the applicant, as well as other

25 property owners in the district, except to be



1 mindful to neighbor to the rear, per their

2 concerns verbalized in the meeting.

3 The requested variance will not

4 cause an adverse impact on surrounding

5 property, property values or may increase as

6 a result of this, and use and enjoyment of

7 the property in the neighborhood and zoning

8 district.

9 MR. SANGHVI: Second.

10 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Seeing a motion

11 and a second, any further discussion?

12 Seeing none, Ms. Pawlowski, can you

13 please call the roll.

14 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Gerblick?


16 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Chairman Ghannam?


18 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Ibe?

19 MR. IBE: Yes.

20 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Krieger?

21 MS. KRIEGER: Yes.

22 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Sanghvi?

23 MR. SANGHVI: Yes.

24 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Motion passes five

25 to zero.



1 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Thank you, sir.

2 MR. CLARK: Thank you for your

3 time.


5 agenda is Item No. 3, Case No. 12-001, 50630

6 Amesburg Drive. Is the applicant ready?

7 Please raise your right hand, sir,

8 and be sworn.

9 MR. IBE: In Case. No. 12-001,

10 50630 Amesburg Drive, do you swear or affirm

11 to the truth?

12 MR. MINOCK: I do.

13 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: State your name.

14 MR. MINOCK: Jason Minock.

15 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Go ahead and

16 proceed.

17 MR. MINOCK: I'm with Toll Brothers

18 I'm the project manager for the Island Lake

19 of Novi community. I have been here before a

20 couple times.

21 As you know, I'm here for the

22 similar, dissimilar issue.

23 And in your packet, my

24 understanding, talking with Doug who handles

25 for the city similar, dissimilar, there has



1 to be several items that are large enough

2 that meet the criteria in order to have

3 houses that are near each other, have similar

4 features.

5 In your packet, I believe, there

6 was a drawing that we did, I think Doug

7 actually had an aerial. I can see you guys

8 have it as well.

9 These two houses are from two

10 different streets, and the curvature of the

11 street, I know it says in there that you can

12 see one from the other, but I have stood out

13 there and it's -- I'm pretty sure it's going

14 to be impossible to stand in front of -- on

15 Terre Del Mar looking at the one house and

16 seeing the front of the other house because

17 of the angle of the streets. So that's one

18 thing that I have.

19 There is a park that goes in

20 between the two as well, they're not

21 physically connected.

22 One of the other things that Doug

23 said that if one house is five feet wide --

24 five feet or more wider than the other home,

25 that that's considered a major structural



1 change. This one is four feet.

2 And so it is four feet, it's not in

3 the center of the house. It's actually four

4 feet on the one side. If you look, it

5 doesn't show real well here, but on the front

6 of the this home, there is a little turret

7 that sticks out.

8 The four feet is on the side of

9 that, so it actually, you can notice the four

10 feet, it's not like sort of the center of the

11 house expanded four feet, you may or may

12 notice it actually. It's going to be a

13 fairly prominent change, I believe.

14 The proposed house also has a four

15 car garage. Although that doesn't

16 technically meet in the ordinance in terms of

17 a difference in the front of the house. It

18 does make a very large difference. Other

19 than standing directly in front of the

20 proposed house, if you're offset either way,

21 the house is definitely going to look

22 different from the front, with one sticking

23 out 10 feet further than the other one.

24 And then the rear of the house

25 looks different, not that has anything to do



1 with the ordinance, but when it's on a curve,

2 you actually see -- you're driving up

3 Amesburg, you are going to see the existing

4 house, the rear of it.

5 MR. SANGHVI: Can you ask him to

6 put this on the overhead.

7 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Can you put that

8 on the overhead, please, and show everybody.

9 MR. MINOCK: I think you guys have

10 this.


12 MR. SANGHVI: People at home need

13 to see it.

14 MR. MINOCK: Is that clear?

15 MR. SANGHVI: Can you point out the

16 two lots that you're referring to?

17 MR. MINOCK: Absolutely. This home

18 right here is an existing home, and it fronts

19 on Terre Del Mar here, the garage comes out,

20 but the front of the home is over here. This

21 is the proposed home over here, which fronts

22 on Amesburg.

23 The difference is, although it's --

24 again, to scale obviously, this little

25 section here is sticking out four feet



1 further than this other one here. The garage

2 here is four feet, so it sticks four feet --

3 or 10 feet closer to the road than this one.

4 So the garage, looking from the

5 side of the garage, you're going to have two

6 16 foot garage doors, versus 16 and eight

7 foot from the one side.

8 And then, again, I know this has

9 nothing to do with the ordinance, but I'm

10 going to throw it out there anyway, they will

11 have different brick and roof colors.

12 There is one other minor thing

13 that -- there is one difference, there is a

14 vent on one, we have a circle window on the

15 other, on the front of the elevation.

16 One window in itself, from what I

17 understand from Doug, from the other

18 constitutes or change, a major change, but

19 throwing that out there.

20 Doug had mentioned that -- he said

21 in an email that went to several people,

22 including Charles, that, you know, it's

23 possible some creative landscaping, open

24 spaces, houses can be screened from one

25 another. We are open to that.



1 You know, he said this isn't

2 something that we can make the call --

3 unfortunately we cannot make the call, which

4 again, I understand they have to follow the

5 rules.

6 He did say it might make a

7 reasonable argument. Obviously there is no

8 guarantee, like you said, it's your decision,

9 not his.

10 But I feel like there are some

11 extenuating circumstances, with the curvature

12 of the road, and the fact that there are some

13 differences.

14 That's pretty much what I have.

15 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Thank you, sir.

16 Is there anybody in the public who would like

17 to make a comment on this specific case?

18 Seeing none, I will close the

19 public remarks section and ask our secretary

20 to read any correspondence.

21 MR. IBE: Mr. Chair, there were 27

22 mails, three returned mail, one approval,

23 zero objections.

24 The lone one approval we have is

25 from Prier (ph) and Macomb Rogers of 50653



1 Amesburg Drive, Novi, dated 2nd 10, 2012.

2 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Thank you. Any

3 comment or questions by the city?


5 MR. BOULARD: Nothing to add. The

6 reference was I believe, was to Doug Niche,

7 who is our counsel that reviews all the

8 houses for similar, dissimilar.

9 Other than that, if there is any

10 questions, I would be happy to assist.

11 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: I will open it

12 up to the Board then for discussion.

13 As I do that, sir, I have got a

14 couple of questions for you.

15 Number one, the home that's

16 existing, was there an approval by that

17 particular homeowner whether they had a

18 problem or not with the same facade?

19 MR. MINOCK: No, there wasn't. I

20 actually didn't talk to them.


22 assume, they were notified of this particular

23 hearing. Did anybody talk to them?

24 MR. MINOCK: I did not.

25 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Secondly, are



1 you going to have trouble with the sale of

2 this particular new home, if this facade is

3 not approved?

4 I know in your paperwork you said

5 you have sold it without realizing that this

6 was a problem.

7 MR. MINOCK: Yes, I mean, something

8 will have to occur. I mean, they really like

9 this particular look of the house, so I'm not

10 sure -- I can't answer that. You know, I

11 definitely think it will be some issue. I'm

12 not sure what we would do. We would have to

13 go back to them.

14 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: What kind of

15 screening -- if this was approved, what kind

16 of screening would you think would be

17 appropriate?

18 MR. MINOCK: It is a park in

19 between there. This is a walking path. The

20 walking -- I don't know if anybody went out

21 there, but currently the walking path is

22 actually in the lot. I'm going to have to

23 move the walking path over a few feet to get

24 it into the common area.

25 I mean, we could put some pine



1 trees, which I think probably would be the

2 effective -- we can't put them obviously too

3 close to the road. With the curvature of the

4 road, they have got to be on the homeowners

5 side of the public sidewalk. We could put

6 some pine trees up there, you know.


8 didn't see, but is there like trees in

9 between these two lots?

10 MR. MINOCK: Not -- I think on your

11 aerial, there is -- no. There is some --

12 further back down the park, it kind of opens

13 up behind there it a little bit more, there

14 is a few here and there, but they're not --

15 they're only a couple year old small trees,

16 they're not anything significant.

17 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: I don't have any

18 other questions, sir. Thank you. Anybody

19 else have any questions or comments?

20 Member Krieger?

21 MS. KRIEGER: On Terre Del Mar, the

22 house 93 on west side, is there a window and

23 what shape is it, and then the house on

24 Amesburg, same thing, on the north side, is

25 there something distinguishing that makes



1 them different?

2 MR. MINOCK: On the north side of

3 one on the Amesburg, which is the rear of the

4 house, yes, there is. I mean, but the one on

5 Amesburg actually has that bump-out, that

6 sort of octagonal bump-out off the back of

7 the home, which is all glass.

8 MS. KRIEGER: I mean, towards where

9 the walking path is.

10 MR. MINOCK: Oh, okay, I'm sorry.

11 So more on the east side then of the Amesburg

12 house, no, there is no windows along that

13 side -- and I'm sorry. The other -- were you

14 looking for 93 on the back of that home, what

15 it would look at?

16 MS. KRIEGER: If I was on

17 Terre Del Mar driving west to east, and I

18 looked to my right, I would see the west side

19 of the 93 and the side of the house of where

20 the walking path is, since there is no

21 landscaping, are they different?

22 MR. MINOCK: Correct. Just so we

23 are -- when you're saying this side of the --

24 this being the east side, or are you saying

25 this being -- the west side driving out



1 Amesburg, the west side here?

2 This is the rear of this home, this

3 is the side of that home. Did I answer your

4 question? I'm not sure I did.


6 question is, are there windows facing each

7 other, each of the homes?

8 MR. MINOCK: Yes. The back of this

9 house here has lots of windows. There is a

10 family room, a kitchen area, a breakfast nook

11 and a dining room. And then on this house

12 here, the proposed house, there are no

13 windows there.

14 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: There are no

15 windows. Is that your question, Member

16 Krieger?

17 MS. KRIEGER: Yes. Thank you.

18 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Anybody else

19 have any questions or comments? Member Ibe?

20 MR. IBE: Sir, in line with the

21 question that was asked previously by

22 Mr. Chairman here, regarding the sale of this

23 particular property, is the buyer aware that

24 you're before the Board today?

25 MR. MINOCK: They are. It's



1 actually not to go into much detail, it's

2 extended bill, so we can we give people

3 certain amount of time we are going to build

4 the house in, so having this meeting,

5 although it delayed things, we are still

6 going to be hopefully, if we get approval,

7 falling within the time frame for building

8 their house.

9 So they are -- I don't know how --

10 we haven't exactly expressed -- we just said

11 we have to go before the Board for similar,

12 dissimilar.

13 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Member Sanghvi?

14 MR. SANGHVI: To follow-up on the

15 question is, is the sale contingent upon this

16 variance?

17 MR. MINOCK: I know that this was

18 an extremely -- they really like this house.

19 We have lots of -- this is our model home.

20 And so people really like that look of the

21 model home.

22 Actually, I can't honestly answer

23 that. I mean, I know that talking to my

24 sales manager that -- I mean, if the question

25 is, are they not going to buy a house if they



1 can't have this variance, I don't know the

2 answer to that.

3 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Is this house

4 under contract with these proposed buyers?

5 MR. MINOCK: Oh, absolutely, yes.

6 They bought it months ago. As a matter of

7 fact, we submitted for building approval in

8 December, so --

9 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Member Sanghvi?

10 MR. SANGHVI: Second question. Who

11 is going to maintain this quote, unquote

12 park?

13 MR. MINOCK: The homeowners

14 association maintains the whole park. There

15 is parks throughout the whole community.

16 There is actually -- the walking

17 path is maintained by the homeowners

18 association. They re-woodchip it every so

19 often, get rid of the weeds. The grass is

20 mowed and the irrigation is paid through by

21 the homeowners association.

22 MR. SANGHVI: Is the homeowners

23 association aware of what is going on now?

24 MR. MINOCK: No. But Toll is part

25 of that homeowners association. No.



1 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Member Gerblick?

2 MR. GERBLICK: You had mentioned

3 that five feet is considered a major

4 structural change. How big of an undertaking

5 would it be to change that four foot

6 extension to five feet to meet the

7 variance -- or the major structural change so

8 you wouldn't need a variance? Do you have an

9 understanding of how the ordinance is worded?

10 MR. MINOCK: That was my

11 understanding.

12 To answer your question, well, I

13 would have to have the architects redraw

14 blueprints and do a new plot plan. I believe

15 that there is a foot there, I'm just guessing

16 off this. But I believe there is probably a

17 foot there so it's actually physically fit.

18 So it just be, you know, several thousand

19 dollars to new blueprints. I would have to

20 give it to the homeowners as extra space.

21 MR. GERBLICK: Thank you.

22 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Member Krieger?

23 MS. KRIEGER: So Toll Brothers is

24 part of the homeowners association?

25 MR. MINOCK: Correct.



1 MS. KRIEGER: Then aren't there --

2 like the president of the homeowners

3 association, have they been included in this

4 discussion?


6 MS. KRIEGER: I would actually like

7 to see more of their participation in this as

8 well, since in the end they're going to be

9 living with the results of all of this, as

10 well as the homeowners.

11 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Is Toll Brothers

12 a member of the association only because it

13 retains empty lots that are not build upon,

14 is that the reason why?

15 MR. MINOCK: Correct. There is

16 three people on the board and Toll Brother is

17 one of them.

18 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: It's by virtue

19 of the fact that they own lots, that still

20 haven't been sold, is that the reason why?

21 MR. MINOCK: Correct.


23 something that needs to go through the

24 homeowners association?

25 MR. MINOCK: No, I don't believe



1 so, but --

2 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Are there any

3 restrictive covenants in your --

4 MR. MINOCK: No, there is nothing

5 in the Island Lake covenants that would

6 dictate that.

7 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Is this part of

8 a site condo?

9 MR. MINOCK: Yes.

10 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Island Lake is a

11 site condo, correct, the entire community?

12 MR. MINOCK: Yes.

13 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: As part of those

14 condo documents, do you know if there is --

15 does anybody know if there any restrictive

16 issues to this particular issue also?

17 MS. SAARELA: I don't have the

18 documents handy, but if they were, they would

19 be probably be in the bylaws.

20 MR. MINOCK: I'm pretty sure that

21 the bylaws are fairly generic, there is some

22 very minimal restrictions in there.

23 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: I guess that is

24 a matter of what's minimal. I appreciate

25 that. I guess there is a couple of ways we



1 can handle it.

2 Certainly it can be granted as

3 requested, denied as requested, or it can be

4 granted with conditions.

5 How long would it take to bring

6 this up before the homeowners association and

7 get approval or denial?

8 MR. MINOCK: I mean, I could email

9 the two others members of the board.

10 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: How long would

11 it take you to --

12 MR. MINOCK: I mean, couple of

13 days. Everybody is pretty quick with the

14 emails. Smaller items, votes go through via

15 email.

16 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: There is only

17 three votes on the votes is that what you are

18 saying?

19 MR. MINOCK: Correct.

20 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: How about the

21 other homeowners, do they vote?

22 MR. MINOCK: No -- well, not on

23 issues that arise. So there is three

24 members. We just had our annual board

25 meeting, and the two members were reelected



1 this last month, so that's how the board --

2 Island Lake has a subassociation, which is

3 this, is called the Orchards. There is a

4 master association has oversight over the

5 lake and the clubhouse and that.

6 Toll Brothers runs that. We

7 actually oversee that. I have controlling

8 interest in that board. But that board

9 doesn't have anything to do with this board

10 with this specific area.

11 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: This specific

12 area is governed by a subassociation?

13 MR. MINOCK: Yes, there is seven of

14 them within Island Lake. It's kind of

15 confusing. There are some many different

16 condos, and so forth, so they each have their

17 own distinct board for their own distinct --

18 each one has a little bit different concerns.


20 subassociation, there is three people that

21 vote on these type of issues?

22 MR. MINOCK: Yes, correct. They're

23 elected from the body at large.

24 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: I understand.

25 Of this subassociation?



1 MR. MINOCK: Correct. I mean, I

2 don't know what the other subassociations,

3 how large the boards are.

4 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: These members

5 are elected by the subassociation?

6 MR. MINOCK: Correct.

7 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: What is your

8 opinion on the screening of the two homes?

9 MR. MINOCK: I don't have a

10 problem. I mean, I don't know -- again, I

11 don't think when you're standing in front of

12 the one, that you can see the other, so I

13 think it's more -- if that would help with

14 the situation, I don't have a problem putting

15 in the pine trees between there. There is a

16 walking path, there are trees throughout the

17 park. They're just -- you know, they have

18 only been planted for a couple years.

19 They're not real big yet.

20 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: If there was a

21 contingency for screening, how many pine

22 trees do you think would be appropriate?

23 MR. MINOCK: Probably like six,

24 maybe eight footers. The road also kind of

25 drops here a little bit. I don't know if



1 anybody went out there. It comes around the

2 curve there. I mean, I would think six eight

3 foot pine trees maybe. Which is not, I

4 mean --

5 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Go ahead and

6 finish.

7 MR. MINOCK: I was going to say,

8 that's not inexpensive, but we could do that.

9 It would be easier of me than going the

10 other.


12 MR. BOULARD: My only suggestion

13 was if the Board is inclined to consider some

14 trees for buffers that -- I'm not sure with

15 the width of that area, that once you

16 relocated the path and put the trees in

17 there, that as the trees mature, I'm not sure

18 it would necessarily fit on the park portion,

19 or if they might be pushed onto the lot.


21 suggested it has to be on the homeowners

22 land, correct?

23 MR. MINOCK: Oh, I was thinking you

24 were thinking the park, but --

25 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: I thought you



1 suggested it has to be on the homeowners --

2 MR. MINOCK: Oh, no, it could be --

3 I was thinking more in the park, just so that

4 it's -- I mean, the park -- we let anybody

5 who wants to plant extra trees in the park go

6 ahead and do it, as that subassociation. It

7 seems to benefit everybody. So my

8 inclination would be to put them in the park,

9 but --


11 questions, comments or ideas? I'm not sure

12 what the --

13 MR. SANGHVI: My only concern is

14 the homeowners are not in the loop here, and

15 that bothers me.


17 inclined to approve, you can make a

18 condition, instead of him coming back again

19 on approval of their particular board. You

20 can make a condition of screening, anything

21 else you think is appropriate, or you can

22 table it, request to table it. I mean, it's

23 up to you.

24 The only reason why -- I'm

25 listening to all of this, I'm wondering why



1 the person next-door is not giving an opinion

2 one way or another. You would think -- I

3 mean, they're the ones who have the similar

4 facade.

5 I mean, they can just simply be

6 disinterested or they weren't -- just didn't

7 see the notice.

8 What the Board inclined to do?

9 Anybody have any suggestions?

10 MR. SANGHVI: The way it stands

11 now, I will not be able to support it.

12 MR. GERBLICK: I would be in favor

13 of the request if we added a contingency that

14 pending approval of the homeowner with the

15 similar facade and approval of the sub-board,

16 both of those conditions.

17 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Anybody else? I

18 mean, I have no problem approving it. The

19 question becomes one of conditions.

20 I don't even have a problem saying

21 no screening. I don't want to say it's

22 really up to the neighbor, but to me the

23 input of the neighbor would be instrumental

24 in helping us because they have the most at

25 stake. If they have no opinion or desire one



1 way or the other, I have no problems with no

2 contingency.

3 Anybody else want to make any

4 suggestions before we ask for a motion?

5 Member Krieger?

6 MS. KRIEGER: I would be willing to

7 table it until that information that removes

8 the contingencies for the approval.

9 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: If we tabled

10 this for a month, sir, would that hinder or

11 impede your billing process or no?

12 MR. MINOCK: It tightens it up, but

13 we could do that.

14 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: When did you

15 plan on constructing or beginning

16 construction?

17 MR. MINOCK: As soon as I got a

18 permit.

19 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: When do you

20 expect that?

21 MR. MINOCK: Well, I don't know

22 exactly. I mean, this was in the approval

23 process, then it stopped, so I'm not sure --

24 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Assuming you had

25 approval tonight, let's just assume that for



1 the sake of argument, when would you expect a

2 building permit?

3 MR. MINOCK: I guess, I would think

4 in a week. I'm not sure if everything has

5 been done, or if this whole thing stopped at

6 this. I'm not sure if the other approvals

7 have gone through or not.

8 But if this is the only

9 contingency, I would think it would be fairly

10 quick, I don't know.


12 MR. BOULARD: I believe that once

13 the initial reviews start, normally what we

14 would do is hold off on reviewing the entire

15 house because sometimes the house will

16 change, a different house will be built on

17 the lot, which would be mean a different sets

18 of reviews as opposed to extending the

19 applicant's funds unnecessarily.

20 It seems that the contingencies

21 that you're considering are fairly cut and

22 dry. There is a not a lot of interpretation.

23 It's either yes or no.

24 And if you're inclined to address

25 the issue tonight, I would be more than



1 comfortable, you know, reviewing those to

2 make sure that either yes or no, and then we

3 would -- I can bring a copy back as opposed

4 to holding things up.

5 But I'm -- if you're inclined to --

6 if you're inclined to approve this, I think

7 the weather is, you know, going to be an

8 issue. Nobody knows what the spring holds.

9 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: I understand

10 that.

11 I would have -- I guess, I would be

12 inclined, if you wanted it done this right

13 away, because of timing, I know timing is

14 always an issue in building and construction

15 and so forth, plus I'm sure the homeowners

16 want to get in as soon as possible, but I

17 guess I would have no problem approving, with

18 the contingency that the sub homeowners

19 association gives approvals. If that

20 association has any contingencies itself,

21 such as a screening, or other issues, that

22 would have to be complied with.

23 I guess I can support something to

24 that effect, just to move the process.

25 Member Sanghvi?



1 MR. SANGHVI: My main concern is,

2 (inaudible), but the rest of people have to

3 live with it for the rest of their lives.

4 And I would have rather stop it now than

5 create a problem in the future for the people

6 who are living in the neighborhood.

7 This is going to change the entire

8 configuration of the neighborhood, not just

9 this house alone, you see.

10 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: So what are you

11 suggesting?

12 MR. SANGHVI: I'm suggesting that

13 they should put these people in the loop

14 before we make a decision.

15 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: You mean all the

16 members of the subassociation?

17 MR. SANGHVI: Yes.

18 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Well, I guess by

19 our notices, would we have -- it's only a

20 foot differential from this particular house

21 that is notified, is that right?

22 MR. BOULARD: Right. The notices

23 go out all the property owners located within

24 300 feet of the border, and I think --

25 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Do you know how



1 many of those would be in this subassociation

2 by any chance?

3 MR. BOULARD: I'm not sure how many

4 houses are occupied.

5 If you look at the map that's in

6 your packet, the dark line is those other

7 buildings or parcels that are within the

8 300 feet, and so then the red points are the

9 addresses where those notices would be sent.

10 So you could see that the adjacent neighbors

11 did receive -- you know, did receive the

12 notice.

13 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: So the homes

14 with the red dots and the lots with the red

15 dots are within the 300 feet?

16 MR. BOULARD: Right. Also the

17 ones -- the houses on the other side of

18 Terre Del Mar, where they extend --

19 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: How many -- I

20 see there is a lot of empty lots here, sir,

21 on the aerial. How many of those empty lots

22 are still controlled or owned by Toll, and

23 the subassociation?

24 MR. MINOCK: A grand total of 40.

25 Half of those are sold and we're building, so



1 there are a large chunk that we actually have

2 in terms of --

3 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Forty of how

4 many total?

5 MR. MINOCK: 266.


7 subassociation?

8 MR. MINOCK: Correct. Actually

9 that's not true. It's 57. I'm sorry. It's

10 57 out of 266.

11 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: That's what Toll

12 still owns?

13 MR. MINOCK: Correct. A large

14 chunk of those have been sold, but --

15 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: But haven't

16 been delivered.

17 MR. MINOCK: But haven't been

18 delivered, so Toll is still in control of

19 them.

20 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: I guess the

21 issue with is that, what he's telling us,

22 what he's advising us, that the

23 subassociation doesn't even vote on it. It's

24 the board that would vote?

25 MR. MINOCK: Correct.



1 Subassociations actually don't vote unless

2 there is major changes to the bylaws and

3 those kinds of --

4 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: So they would

5 have no input as to -- at least according to

6 your condo documents, as to things like this,

7 facade, is that what you're telling us?

8 MR. MINOCK: I believe that's the

9 case, yes. I mean, typically what the board

10 does is they will go and talk to people. You

11 know, kind of to your point of -- they will

12 talk to, you know, people and see if they

13 think it's an issue.

14 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: All right. Any

15 other suggestions? I'm trying to get a

16 consensus because, as you know, we have got

17 five tonight, you need at least four out of

18 five for any action.

19 MR. SANGHVI: My suggestion would

20 be to table this and let them get the people

21 in the loop there and find out what is their

22 input before we make a decision. I'd like to

23 take into account the interest of the people

24 who are already there.

25 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: You're referring



1 to all 266 lots?

2 MR. SANGHVI: Yes, in that

3 neighborhood, yes.

4 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Member Krieger,

5 what would be your inclination?

6 MS. KRIEGER: I would be inclined

7 to table it as well.

8 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: You're not going

9 to get approval based upon that alone. We

10 have already -- you got kind of two

11 approvals, maybe three. But you still need

12 four, so --

13 MR. MINOCK: I was going to say,

14 I'm not sure that there is a mechanism for

15 getting 200 -- all the people to vote. I

16 don't know. We had a board meeting, we only

17 had a quorum because I was there representing

18 57 folks.

19 The board would be very easy, like

20 I said, that's an email, you know, with

21 attachments and so forth. I mean, that is a

22 fairly simple -- and then maybe the -- I

23 don't know the gentleman, or the family that

24 lives in the existing house. They have been

25 there for many years before I was here, but I



1 have no problem knocking on their door at

2 least, and, you know, seeing if they have any

3 concerns.

4 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Member Ibe, you

5 have a suggestion?

6 MR. IBE: Absolutely. Sir, if I

7 can make a suggestion to you. I understand

8 you only have a three member board there. I

9 mean, that doesn't seem to fit the majority

10 of people at least in this subassociation.

11 But concerning the fact that we

12 have two and two, I'm the person in the

13 middle, here, I could go either way, you

14 still don't have enough, you need four.

15 MR. MINOCK: I understand.

16 MR. IBE: I think in order to

17 satisfy the other two members who are on the

18 fence, it might be a good idea for you to

19 knock on that neighbor's door because this is

20 a neighborhood who is going to have to live

21 next to this house.

22 MR. MINOCK: Correct.

23 MR. IBE: I can tell you, if I'm

24 the neighbor, I certainly don't want a house

25 that looks like mine across the street from



1 me because definitely I'm sure they paid

2 premium dollar for their home, and certainly

3 don't want something that looks identical.

4 This is a custom homes. And when they look

5 the same, it takes away from the beauty of

6 what they have.

7 So I think you can -- while I'm not

8 (inaudible) if you don't do this, I will

9 humbly request that you at least consider

10 getting the word from this three member board

11 that you guys have, that I think is a big

12 monopoly, and go knock on the neighbor's

13 door. The people that really matters. Then

14 come back and tell us, maybe they can even

15 give you something in writing for the board

16 next month.

17 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: What would you

18 suggest, Member Sanghvi, with regard to the

19 other -- they control say 57 lots, there is

20 almost 100 -- maybe 180, 190 plus that may be

21 occupied.

22 What would you suggest they do with

23 those particular homeowners?

24 MR. SANGHVI: (Inaudible) nobody

25 owns them at the present time. But the



1 people who are there, who have invested quite

2 large sums of money in this neighborhood, I

3 think they need to know what's going on how

4 it might impact them.


6 suggesting --

7 MR. SANGHVI: He hasn't talked to

8 the guy next-door.

9 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: I understand,

10 are you suggesting he somehow, Toll, send the

11 notice out to all these people before the

12 next meeting?

13 MR. SANGHVI: Just let them know

14 what's going on here, how it might impact

15 them. Sometimes ignorance is not bliss.

16 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Okay. Anybody

17 want to make a motion?

18 MR. IBE: I will go ahead and make

19 a motion. I will move that in Case Number

20 12-001, 50630 Amesburg Drive, that this

21 matter be tabled to the March hearing. I

22 don't know, will that impact any notice be

23 given again or can we just --

24 MR. BOULARD: No, if you table this

25 to a date certain -- March 6th.



1 MR. IBE: March 6th hearing, during

2 that March 6th hearing the Board will like to

3 hear from the applicant whether or not they

4 have complied with some of the requests and

5 suggestions made by the members at that time.

6 MR. SANGHVI: Second.


8 discussion on this particular motion?

9 The only comment I would have, sir,

10 is although you may -- you can choose to do

11 nothing, as you can see from the comments,

12 certainly contacting the neighbor next-door

13 who has the same facade, or will have

14 approximately the same facade and as many

15 people as you can in this particular sub.

16 I would also suggest, even though

17 this is a three member board that you get

18 approval from the board, just to let us

19 know -- because these are elected by the

20 homeowners, so that's their representatives.

21 And bring back as much approvals and

22 comments, whether it be positive or negative

23 that you can, and that could be part of your

24 presentation. That's the only thing I would

25 add.



1 Seeing no other discussion,

2 Ms. Pawlowski, can you please call the roll.

3 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Gerblick?


5 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Chairman Ghannam?


7 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Ibe?

8 MR. IBE: Yes.

9 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Krieger?

10 MS. KRIEGER: Yes.

11 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Sanghvi?

12 MR. SANGHVI: Yes.

13 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Motion passes six

14 to zero.

15 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Sir, you are

16 adjourned until March 6th, in hopes you will

17 bring back that information.

18 MR. MINOCK: Thank you.

19 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Next on the

20 agenda is Item No. 4, Case No. 12-002, 22126

21 Beck Road. Is the applicant here?

22 Can you please state your name,

23 sir.

24 MR. STORM: Michael Storm.

25 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Raise your right



1 hand, as you're doing, to be sworn.

2 MR. IBE: In Case Number 12-002,

3 22126 Beck Road. Do you swear or affirm to

4 tell the truth?

5 MR. STORM: I do.


7 MR. STORM: I have some additional

8 information I wanted to give you. I did a

9 petition.

10 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Why don't you

11 pass that before you make your presentation.

12 Are these all the same?

13 MR. STORM: Yes. I purchased this

14 home in 2009 and the fence existed. That's

15 why the pictures that you have show the wear

16 and tear on it, that was to show that it had

17 been placed there for some time.

18 When I purchased the home, I saw

19 the fence in the woods, in the front of the

20 yard, and knowing that it was there, that

21 served a great sense of relief for safety

22 issues and also to deaden the sound of Beck

23 Road because I am at the same elevation as

24 the road.

25 So with that being said, I'd like



1 to keep the fence as it's there, and if you

2 review some of the petitions, you can see

3 that petitioners, that it existed, it wasn't

4 something that I erected and put in place,

5 but I did clear all the trees that were

6 growing over it and vines, and then I painted

7 it, and resecured it in areas.

8 And that's why it came to the

9 attention of Maureen from the zoning

10 department. She saw it, and then that's when

11 I -- that's why I am here today.


13 anything else, sir?

14 MR. STORM: No, that's it.

15 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Is there anybody

16 in the public who would like to make a

17 comment on this particular case?

18 Ma'am, I will recognize you first,

19 if you could step forward. Please state your

20 name and address.

21 MS. CRAWFORD: Good evening. Carol

22 Jean Crawford, 22135 Beck Road.

23 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Before I have

24 you sworn in, can you move the microphone a

25 little bit closer to your mouth.



1 Raise your right hand and be sworn,

2 ma'am.

3 MR. IBE: In Case Number 12-002,

4 22126 Beck Road. Do you swear or affirm to

5 tell the truth?

6 MS. CRAWFORD: Yes. I didn't get a

7 chance to get the letter back in with our


9 We live directly across the street,

10 and we find all the improvements that are

11 being made there wonderful.

12 The property was in great need of

13 clearing and cutting back and improving and

14 it's beginning to look wonderful.

15 We like the fence there. It adds

16 personality to the property and the dwelling

17 and we would like to support the applicant in

18 his efforts here. Thank you.


20 ma'am.

21 Sir, you were next, please step

22 forward. Go ahead and state your name,

23 please.

24 MR. FAUST: Mike Faust, 23445 Beck

25 Road.



1 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: You can raise

2 your right hand, sir.

3 MR. IBE: In Case Number 12-002,

4 22126 Beck Road. Do you swear or affirm to

5 tell the truth?

6 MR. FAUST: Yes. Just to say as a

7 neighbor, I'm a relatively distant neighbor,

8 but that fence, when Mike came by, I

9 developed the subdivision Edinborough on Beck

10 Road. That was back in the early to mid

11 '90s, when we started it. And that fence was

12 there at that time. And I'm just on Beck

13 Road, on the opposite side down a ways. I

14 wouldn't mind having a fence. Beck Road is

15 noisy. I think it probably serves a real

16 good purpose. But I have no objection to it

17 and it certainly was there in the mid '90s.


19 you, sir. Is there anybody else that

20 would -- you have something else?

21 MR. FAUST: No.

22 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: You can sit

23 down. Thank you.

24 Is there anybody else in the

25 audience who would like to make a comment on



1 this particular case?

2 Seeing none, I will close the

3 public remarks section and ask our secretary

4 to read any correspondence.

5 MR. IBE: Mr. Chair, 26 mails were

6 sent out, zero returns mailed, one approval,

7 and two objections.

8 The sole approval we have is from

9 Joseph Dunnabeck of 21900 Dunnabeck Court,

10 Novi, 48374, dated February 6, 2012.

11 It reads: "I have been a resident

12 of Novi since 1952. I have grown up with

13 fencing along Beck Road mainly to keep the

14 animals enclosed.

15 However, in today's world, a good

16 fence along Beck Road helps to reduce the

17 noise from the vehicles traveling along this

18 road. This fine looking fence is nicer to

19 look at than the remaining farmers fences up

20 and down Beck Road." Signed Joseph Dunnabeck.

21 The first objection is from Edward

22 Wang, address 22099 Barclay Court, dated

23 February 11, 2012.

24 It reads, "Wooden fence will be a

25 major eyesore, as Mr. Storm has it in the



1 backyard now. Looks really bad. However,

2 brick wall fence made of cast iron like the

3 one installed two doors south of them may be

4 acceptable. Reason for objection, fence does

5 not blend in with the surrounding wall. It

6 poses the risk of devaluing properties.

7 Thank you for understating, and we do

8 recognize them being a good neighbor."

9 Second objection is from Remond

10 Atie, spelled A-t-i-e, of 22059 Barclay,

11 dated February 3rd, 2001. And it reads,

12 "sets a precedence". Thank you, Mr. Chair.

13 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Thank you. Any

14 comments the City?


16 MR. BOULARD: Just a couple of

17 comments, if I could. Actually, questions

18 for the petitioner.

19 Do you -- one of the things when we

20 had contacted you for additional information

21 with that hoped to find out, do you know if

22 the fence is currently in the public

23 right-of-way or not?

24 MR. STORM: No, it is not. It is

25 at the same distance, if you can look at that



1 aerial shot, the city sidewalk that the

2 neighboring properties have, it's sitting

3 just behind where a sidewalk would go.

4 MR. BOULARD: Even where it jogs to

5 the driveway?

6 MR. STORM: Right. It would sit

7 right behind that, that's where the fence is

8 that.

9 MR. BOULARD: Then the second

10 question is, the ordinance basically talks

11 about fences not being allowed in the front

12 yard, which would be anywhere between the

13 front of the house at 190 feet back from the

14 road, out to the road.

15 Currently the fences that you have

16 taken the pictures of, I believe, is along

17 Beck Road.

18 Is it your intent or are you

19 requesting permission to put fence back along

20 the side property lines?

21 MR. STORM: I wasn't going to do

22 anything additional than what's already

23 currently in place.

24 MR. BOULARD: Is there -- are there

25 fences -- does the fence extend back along



1 the property line?

2 MR. STORM: On one side of the

3 property it does.

4 MR. BOULARD: Which side?

5 MR. STORM: That would be the north

6 side.

7 MR. BOULARD: How far back does it

8 go right now?

9 MR. STORM: I'm going to guess

10 about eight foot sections of fence.

11 MR. BOULARD: 65 feet?

12 MR. STORM: Yes.

13 MR. BOULARD: Thank you.

14 MR. STORM: The people that

15 complained about -- or were in support of

16 this, are both people that live in the

17 neighborhood setting. They live behind the

18 house.

19 Until you live on a road, that's a

20 busy traveled road, you can understand the

21 importance of having the fence. And when you

22 are in a neighborhood setting, it's a

23 different setup. Those are the two people

24 that it sounds like are not supportive of it.

25 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Thank you, sir.



1 As I opened the discussion up to the Board, I

2 just have one question for the City.

3 If this thing -- if this fence was

4 already there and existing, why does he need

5 a variance to keep it there, if nothing

6 additional is being done?

7 MR. BOULARD: There is some

8 question as to which portions, or if there

9 were portions of fence that were there.

10 Certainly, we have gone back to the

11 back into the permit system, which is well

12 before the '90s, there is not any permits or

13 any indication that it was ever installed

14 legally, so --

15 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: This was just

16 recognized recently by someone that --

17 apparently it never was approved before?

18 MR. BOULARD: There was complaints,

19 I believe, and the ordinance officer, came to

20 her attention that here is this fence, it was

21 not, as far as we could tell, installed

22 legally, so the idea of coming here is to

23 address that issue.

24 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Sir, when did

25 you buy the house?



1 MR. STORM: Just a comment on that.

2 There was no complaints, Maureen from the

3 ordinance department drove by and noticed the

4 fence, that's why this has all come to play.

5 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: I appreciate

6 that. When did you buy the house?

7 MR. STORM: 2009, December 29th.

8 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Do we know --

9 well, first of all, since you bought the

10 house, nothing -- no part of the fencing was

11 added, correct?

12 MR. STORM: No. I just resecured

13 it.

14 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: You resecured --

15 MR. STORM: It was all there, but

16 even in the ordinance that you have to

17 maintain a fence. So I repainted it and made

18 it more solid.


20 seem that parts of the fence were still in

21 disrepair, is that a fair statement?

22 MR. STORM: Sure.


24 allowed to keep the fence, are you intending

25 on --



1 MR. STORM: Doing further repair.

2 That's what I explained to Maureen, I'm in

3 the middle of a project, that's why I started

4 planting the pine trees. I was going to do

5 further landscape.

6 Now, we decided that I come in

7 front of the Board -- you asked that

8 question. This was a ticketed item. I went

9 and talked to Judge Powers, and we decided

10 why don't we just go in front of the Zoning

11 Board and do it this route, instead of going

12 through the 52nd District Court. That's why

13 I'm here today.

14 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: I guess the

15 problem is maybe a previous homeowners or

16 someone else erected the fence without

17 permission, I guess, that's the problem.

18 MR. STORM: It may have been, but

19 the home before was a horse farm, and used to

20 own the other lots around it. So back in the

21 day, it was permitted to have that fence

22 around it because it had the frontage.

23 Because even the bylaws today, if you have

24 200 feet of frontage to a road like that, you

25 could have that fence. But that lot is 110



1 or something.

2 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: And you're not

3 proposing to add to the fence, simply to keep

4 the existing fence and obviously maintain it?

5 MR. STORM: Correct.

6 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: I don't have any

7 other questions.

8 Anybody else have any questions for

9 the petitioner?

10 MR. SANGHVI: My only question is,

11 is there a change in the ordinance, or this

12 has been around all along like that and --

13 MR. BOULARD: I'm not sure. You

14 did some clearing of the vegetation that was

15 there?

16 MR. STORM: Yes.

17 MR. BOULARD: That may have

18 contributed. I drive this at least twice a

19 day, on my way go back and forth to work, the

20 gentleman has done some clearing, you planted

21 some of the pine trees?

22 MR. STORM: I'm trying to --

23 MR. BOULARD: I can't speak to do

24 the past.

25 MR. SANGHVI: I was there on



1 Friday. I looked at the place. I agree,

2 some portions of the fence needs fixing.

3 MR. STORM: Correct.

4 MR. SANGHVI: But personally I have

5 no objection to leaving it as it is.


7 else have any questions or comments? If not,

8 someone want to make a motion?

9 MR. IBE: Absolutely. In Case

10 Number 12-002, 22126 Beck Road, I move that

11 we approve the request as stated by the

12 applicant, for the following reasons: One,

13 that there are unique circumstances or

14 physical conditions of the property, such as

15 the narrowness, the topography, and in fact,

16 the location of the property itself. And the

17 need for a variance is not due to the

18 applicant's personal economic difficulty.

19 The property in question here is

20 located on a very busy stretch of road called

21 Beck Road, and the applicant in this case

22 bought this property as is really, the fence

23 was there prior to the sale.

24 The applicant stated that he bought

25 the property in December of 2009 and



1 inherited the fence that was in great need

2 for maintenance and thus, the applicant

3 proceeded to do necessary work in order to

4 improve, like the fence that was there.

5 Second, the need is not

6 self-created. As previously stated, the

7 applicant inherited the problem that was

8 there, and only tried to improve on the

9 condition of the fence.

10 And third, a strict compliance with

11 regulations governing area setback, frontage,

12 high bulk, density or other dimensional

13 requirements, will unreasonably prevent the

14 property owner for using the property or

15 permitted purposes, or will render conformity

16 with those regulations unnecessarily

17 burdensome.

18 The property owner purchased this

19 property obviously as it is, understanding

20 that this fence will probably serve a good

21 buffer for the property as well as the busy

22 stretch of the road known as Beck Road.

23 So enforcing the regulations or the

24 ordinance upon this property owner will

25 unnecessarily be burdensome.



1 Four, the requested variance is the

2 minimal variance necessary to do substantial

3 justice to the applicant as well as to other

4 property owners in the district.

5 The applicant has brought forth

6 petitions signed by several homeowners who

7 live along this stretch the road.

8 With the exception of two the

9 objections that we have this, I think that

10 the property owner has demonstrated that

11 substantial justice will be done to -- by

12 allowing him to maintain the fence.

13 And finally, the requested variance

14 will not cause an adverse impact on

15 surrounding property or property values, or

16 the use and enjoyment of the property in the

17 neighborhood.

18 Again, the applicant has brought

19 forth petitions signed by people who

20 obviously will be impacted by this fence and

21 it appears that they are in support of the

22 fence.

23 So based on all of this, there is

24 really no quarrel as to why this fence

25 shouldn't stand.



1 Based on this, I move that we

2 approve the request as stated.

3 MS. KRIEGER: Second.

4 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Seeing a motion

5 and a second, any further discussion?

6 Seeing none, Ms. Pawlowski, can you

7 please call the roll.

8 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Gerblick?


10 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Chairman Ghannam?


12 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Ibe?

13 MR. IBE: Yes.

14 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Krieger?

15 MS. KRIEGER: Yes.

16 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Sanghvi?

17 MR. SANGHVI: Yes.

18 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Motion passes five

19 to zero.

20 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Congratulations,

21 sir.

22 The next item, Item No. 5 has been

23 withdrawn, is that correct?


25 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: So we don't need



1 to take any action on that, Mr. Saarela?

2 MS. SAARELA: You don't need to,

3 but I mean, you could make a motion agreeing

4 to take it off the agenda.


6 entertain a motion to take Item No. 5 off the

7 agenda tonight?

8 MR. GERBLICK: So moved.

9 MR. IBE: Second.

10 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Seeing a motion

11 and second, all in favor say aye.

12 THE BOARD: Aye.

13 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Any opposed?

14 Seeing none, Item No. 5 is formally

15 withdrawn.

16 Next on the agenda is Item No. 6,

17 Case Number 12-004, Parcel No.

18 5022-09-451-028, Novi Corporate Park.

19 Sir, can you state your name and

20 address.

21 MR. MILLER: Chris Miller. I'm

22 with Amson Dembs Development.

23 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Can you spell

24 that, please.

25 MR. MILLER: A-m-s-o-n, D-e-m-b-s,



1 Development.

2 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Raise your right

3 hand and be sworn.

4 MR. IBE: In Case Number 12-004,

5 Parcel 5022-09-451-028, Novi Corporate Park,

6 do you swear or affirm to tell the truth?

7 MR. MILLER: Yes.

8 MR. IBE: Thank you.

9 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Please proceed.

10 MR. MILLER: We are asking that the

11 Board grant us an extension.

12 We have a sales trailer in an

13 industrial park at Twelve Mile Road and

14 West Park, and we are requesting that they

15 grant us an extension. Two years.

16 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Do you have

17 anything else to present, sir?

18 MR. MILLER: No, I don't.

19 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Is there anybody

20 in the public who would like to make a

21 comment on this case?

22 Seeing none, I will close the

23 public remarks section and ask our secretary

24 to read any correspondence.

25 MR. IBE: Mr. Chair, there were 17



1 mails send out, three returned mails, zero

2 approval, zero objections.

3 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Any comments

4 from the City, questions?


6 MR. BOULARD: Nothing to add.

7 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: I will open it

8 up to the Board for discussion then.

9 Any questions of the applicant?

10 Member Krieger?

11 MS. KRIEGER: How many of the

12 parcels are remaining?

13 MR. MILLER: I don't have that

14 information with me. I'm not positive.

15 MS. KRIEGER: Okay.


17 couple of questions. Your original extension

18 went to November 2011, correct?

19 MR. MILLER: Yes.

20 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Why is it that

21 you filed it this year?

22 MR. MILLER: Again, I don't know --

23 somebody else at our office did the filing

24 for this. I was asked to come out for this.

25 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Because you were



1 issued a notice of violation in November,

2 correct?

3 MR. MILLER: I believe so, yes.


5 personally, I didn't get enough information

6 from you on your presentation to grant any

7 kind of request.

8 Explain to us why you need

9 additional time for this trailer and explain

10 how much time you're requesting.

11 MR. MILLER: First of all, it is a

12 temporary sales trailer, not a construction

13 tailer. It is not your typical aluminum body

14 construction trailer on wheels. It's more

15 like a small brick building. It's being

16 maintained and we have interest in properties

17 there. We are working on trying to put more

18 industry into the City of Novi. But

19 everybody knows as far as the economy is

20 right now, industrial property and

21 commericial property is moving slow.

22 So we would like two -- additional

23 two years for the site trailer -- for the

24 sales trailer in hopes that we are going to

25 start moving some more properties.



1 We have had some clients looking,

2 we have had some interest.


4 requesting how much time?

5 MR. MILLER: I'd like to request

6 two more years.


8 maximum we can grant in these situations?

9 MS. SAARELA: You can grant

10 whatever you want. I think that's the

11 initial time that they were granted.


13 you're talking about. Any other questions by

14 any of the members?

15 If not, I will entertain a motion.

16 Member Krieger?

17 MS. KRIEGER: In Case Number

18 12-004, Novi Corporate Park, I move to

19 approve the request for two years for the

20 temporary sales office. There are unique

21 circumstances and physical conditions of the

22 property such as narrowness, shallowness,

23 shape, water, topography or similar physical

24 conditions, and the need for the variance is

25 not due to the applicant's personal or



1 economic difficulty.

2 As you drive down Twelve Mile Road,

3 you look to the right, the sales trailer is

4 maintained, the property is maintained. The

5 landscaping is temporary landscaping to help

6 the facade. That the need is not

7 self-created. Strict compliance with

8 regulation governing the area, setback

9 frontage, height, bulk density or other

10 dimensional requirements will unreasonably

11 prevent property owner from using the

12 property for a permitted use or will render

13 conformity with those regulations

14 unnecessarily burdensome, that this trailer

15 they're using to make sales, somebody that's

16 showing interest can view the area and this

17 is facilitating that for them.

18 The requested variance is the

19 minimum variance necessary to do substantial

20 justice to the applicant as well as the

21 property owners in the district.

22 The requested variance will not

23 cause an adverse impact on surrounding

24 property or property values, and/or the use

25 and enjoyment of the property in the



1 neighborhood or zoning district.

2 MR. SANGHVI: Second.

3 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Seeing a motion

4 and second, any further discursion?

5 Seeing none, Ms. Pawlowski, will

6 you please call the roll.

7 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Gerblick?


9 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Chairman Ghannam?


11 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Ibe?

12 MR. IBE: Yes.

13 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Krieger?

14 MS. KRIEGER: Yes.

15 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Sanghvi?

16 MR. SANGHVI: Yes.

17 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Motion passes five

18 to zero.

19 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Thank you, sir.

20 MR. MILLER: Thank you very much.


22 matters to be brought before the Board?

23 I know there was one issue that we

24 discussed, I want to say last month, that was

25 the election of officers. Typically doesn't



1 that occur in February?

2 MS. SAARELA: Just checking the

3 bylaws to see if there is a set time that it

4 has to be done.

5 Yes, Article Four of the rules of

6 procedure says annually at the first regular

7 meeting in February or soon thereafter as is

8 possible.

9 So I'm not sure that -- if you

10 don't want to wait for a full board to do

11 something like that.

12 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Well, because we

13 have two members missing -- I don't know how

14 many are going to show up next month,

15 necessarily, but I would like to see as many

16 people as possible participate, so I would

17 recommend or suggest that we make a motion to

18 adjourn the election of officers until the

19 March meeting.

20 MR. IBE: So moved.

21 MR. SANGHVI: Second.

22 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: We'll make a

23 motion by Member Ibe and seconded by Member

24 Sanghvi.

25 Any further discussion on that



1 issue?

2 Seeing none, all in favor say aye.


4 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Any opposed?

5 Seeing none, then we will have the

6 election of officers in March, hopefully we

7 will have full participation.

8 Is there any other matters we

9 should discuss?

10 Seeing none, I will entertain a

11 motion to adjourn.

12 MR. SANGHVI: So moved,

13 Mr. Chairman.

14 MR. IBE: Second.

15 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Seeing a motion

16 and a second, all in favor say aye.

17 THE BOARD: Aye.

18 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Any opposed?

19 Seeing none, we are adjourned.

20 (The meeting adjourned at 8:34 p.m.)

21 ** ** **








2 ) ss.


4 I, Jennifer L. Wall, Notary Public within and for

5 the County of Oakland, State of Michigan, do hereby certify

6 that the hearing above, that the statements given by said

7 individuals was stenographically recorded in the presence of

8 myself and others, afterward transcribed by computer under

9 my personal supervision, and that the said statements are a

10 full, true and correct transcript of the statements given by

11 the individuals.

12 I further certify that I am not connected by blood

13 or marriage with any of the parties or their attorneys, and

14 that I am not an employee of any of them, nor financially

15 interested in the action.

16 IN WITNESS THEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand at

17 the City of Walled Lake, County of Oakland, State of

18 Michigan.



21 ________________ _________________________

Date Jennifer L. Wall CSR-4183

22 Oakland County, Michigan

My Commission Expires 11/12/15