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REGULAR MEETING - ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS Proceedings had and Testimony taken in the matters of the ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS, at City of Novi, 45175 West Ten Mile Road, Novi, Michigan, on Tuesday, November 1, 2011 BOARD MEMBERS ALSO PRESENT: Coordinator: REPORTED BY: 1 Novi, Michigan. 2 Tuesday, November 1, 2011 3 7:00 p.m. 4 ** ** ** 5 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Good evening 6 everyone. Welcome to the November 1st, 2011 7 Zoning Board of Appeals meeting. I'm going 8 to call this meeting to order. If we can all 9 please stand for the Pledge of Allegiance. 10 (The Pledge of Allegiance was recited.) 11 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Thank you. 12 Ms. Pawlowski, can you please call the roll. 13 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Gedeon? 14 MR. GEDEON: Here. 15 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Gerblick? 16 MR. GERBLICK: Here. 17 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Chairman Ghannam? 18 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Here. 19 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Ibe? 20 MR. IBE: Present. 21 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Krieger? 22 MS. KRIEGER: Here. 23 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Sanghvi? 24 MR. SANGHVI: Present. 25 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Skelcy?
4 1 MS. SKELCY: Here. 2 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Thank you. 3 Next is our public hearing format and rules 4 of conduct. 5 We do have rules in the back for you to 6 look at. But I will go over a few of them 7 right now. If you have any cellphones or 8 pagers, please turn them off or to silent. 9 When your case is called, the applicant 10 will be asked to come forth, state their name 11 and present their matter. 12 You will be allowed five minutes to 13 address the Board and any extensions allowed 14 by the Chair. 15 There will be a request from the 16 audience, if anybody wants to make a comment 17 on a particular case, they will be called and 18 be recognized. 19 Next is our approval of the agenda. Are 20 there any modifications or corrections to our 21 agenda for tonight? 22 MS. PAWLOWSKI: No. 23 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Seeing none, I 24 will entertain a motion to approve the 25 agenda.
5 1 MS. SKELCY: So moved. 2 MR. SANGHVI: Second. 3 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Seeing a 4 motion and a second, all in favor say aye. 5 THE BOARD: Aye. 6 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Any opposed? 7 Seeing none, the agenda is approved. 8 We will move to our approval of the 9 minutes. 10 Are there any comments or corrections or 11 additions to our minutes of the meeting for 12 our last meeting? 13 MS. KRIEGER: I didn't get 14 minutes. 15 THE REPORTER: They were 16 delivered yesterday. 17 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: They were 18 turned in yesterday, so should we move that 19 to the next agenda -- or to the next meeting? 20 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Yes. 21 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: So we will 22 skip the approval of the minutes of the last 23 meeting. 24 Do we need to vote on that by the way, 25 Ms. Kudla?
6 1 MS. KUDLA: No. 2 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Next is our 3 public remarks section. Is there anybody in 4 the public who would like to make a comment, 5 not on a pending case before us today? 6 Seeing none, we will close that section 7 and go to our first case. 8 Item No. 1, Case 11-034 for Grace 9 Immanuel Bible Church. Is the applicant 10 here? You can step forward. 11 Will you both be speaking tonight? 12 MR. SEXTON: No. 13 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Please state 14 your name and address, sir. 15 MR. SEXTON: Charles Sexton, 16 21900 Meadowbrook Road, Novi. 17 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Are you an 18 attorney, sir? 19 MR. SEXTON: No, I'm the pastor. 20 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: You have to 21 raise your hand and be sworn by our 22 secretary. 23 MS. SKELCY: Do you swear or 24 affirm to tell the truth? 25 MS. SEXTON: I do.
7 1 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Please 2 proceed. 3 MS. SEXTON: We're petitioning to 4 put an open porch on our front door, our main 5 entrance door. And seeking a variance 6 because it will project basically 10 feet 7 into the setback. It's on -- you have 8 received sketches that will explain -- they 9 should be like sheets like this (indicating). 10 It's basically a nine-by-nine porch, open on 11 the ends, basically just protection of 12 weather. 13 We have about a one-third of our 14 congregation are senior citizens, so it's 15 just basically to -- and for all of us, to 16 keep snow and ice off right at the front 17 entrance and give them protection when it's 18 raining and so forth, so they can stand there 19 be picked up right there. So basically it's, 20 you know, for their protection, for the 21 congregation's protection. 22 So you can see by the drawings, it's a 23 nice addition as far as the appearance, it's 24 not obtrusive in any way, so we are just 25 petitioning for the variance.
8 1 Any questions? 2 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: We will get to 3 that in a second, sir. 4 Is there anybody in the public who would 5 like to make a comment on this particular 6 case? Please raise your hand and be 7 recognized. 8 Ma'am, can you please step forward. 9 If you can state your name and address, 10 please. 11 MS. KETTLER: My name is 12 Nancy Kettler. I live at 41372 Marks Drive 13 in Novi. 14 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Please raise 15 your hand and be sworn by our secretary. 16 MS. SKELCY: Do you swear or 17 affirm to tell the truth? 18 MS. KETTLER: I do. 19 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Go ahead. 20 MS. KETTLER: Our property backs 21 up to the property of the church. We live in 22 a subdivision just south of the church. Our 23 backyard is part that backs up to the 24 driveway. 25 They have done a very good job of their
9 1 new addition to the church, and I have no 2 quarrel with that. 3 My quarrel is with asking for another 4 variance for the church. They have asked for 5 a variance before, and it was denied for the 6 parking spots, that they didn't want to put 7 in. And I just feel that it's just been 8 denied before by the Council, because of when 9 the preschool was there, and I don't think it 10 should be allowed this time either. I just 11 feel like if we keep giving variances to 12 people, then they will ask for more of them, 13 and being right there in the neighborhood, I 14 just don't care to see more changes made in 15 our neighborhood. 16 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Thank you, 17 ma'am. I just have a quick question actually 18 for you. Will it affect your property in any 19 way? 20 MS. KETTLER: No, it will not. 21 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Thank you. 22 Anybody else in the public like to be 23 recognized and speak on this particular case? 24 Seeing none, I will close the public 25 remarks section and ask our secretary to read
10 1 any correspondence. 2 MS. SKELCY: Fifty-one notices 3 were mailed. One was returned by the post 4 office and there was one objection. 5 From Al and Linda Lacentra located at 6 41330 Marks Drive, Novi, Michigan 48375. 7 It reads, "Our property abuts the church 8 property to the south. We would urge the 9 Zoning Board of Appeals to deny the requested 10 side yard setback variance. Multiple 11 variances already granted for this property, 12 allow the existing structure to infringe on 13 the south side yard clearances and 14 landscaping abutting property owners could 15 have reasonably expected to be put in place 16 when the building was originally placed on 17 the property. Having recently been before 18 the ZBA for the addition they are currently 19 building, the church should be well aware of 20 the existing variances and ordinances. If 21 they desired a covered entryway, plans for 22 that entry should have been incorporated into 23 the addition currently under construction. 24 Looking at those plans, some changes to the 25 interior traffic patterns in the existing
11 1 building would have made a covered entry on 2 the east side possible without a request for 3 a variance. There is adequate room on this 4 property to the north and east to add a 5 covered entrance without requiring a 6 variance. We believe there is no hardship 7 requiring a need to expand further into the 8 south side yard setbacks. Furthermore, in 9 July 1997, Pathways to Learning Daycare, the 10 former owners of the church building, 11 requested a seven to eight feet south side 12 yard variance to cover the walkway. That 13 request was denied by the Zoning Board of 14 Appeals due to lack of hardship and the fact 15 that there was adequate property to add a 16 covered entrance without requiring a 17 variance. We believe that the situation has 18 not changed and that the variance should be 19 denied for the same reason. Minutes of the 20 July 19, 1997 is ZBA meeting are attached for 21 your reference". 22 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Any comments 23 by the City? 24 MR. BOULARD: Nothing to add. 25 MS. KUDLA: No.
12 1 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Okay. Then I 2 will open it up to the Board for any 3 questions for the applicant. Any questions? 4 Member Ibe. 5 MR. IBE: Sir, can you tell me, 6 what is the prodigal difficulty that would 7 allow us to grant what you're asking us to 8 do? 9 MS. SEXTON: Let me just clarify 10 something. The existing concrete entrance 11 that's there, is basically eight feet from 12 the edge of the building to the outside 13 towards the parking lot. 14 Basically what we're saying is we are 15 going to make room for a post and cover it 16 from there on back. So in some respects, 17 we're -- have been granted that already for 18 the concrete entrance. Putting it on the 19 east side, that particular entrance from the 20 new entrance has been created with the 21 handicap ramp and so forth, opens directly 22 into the sanctuary and that would allow -- in 23 the wintertime allow cold air to come in and 24 have to be reheated and so forth and so on. 25 In the front and the south side, it
13 1 opens up into a vestibule, which is a much 2 smaller area and wouldn't have -- you know, 3 cold air come rushing into the sanctuary. 4 So that's basically why we are using 5 that area, that's also the main entrance for 6 the building. 7 Basically our thing is for a safety 8 issue, for our people, and that we really 9 didn't consider it at first, when we were -- 10 all the other things we were trying to get 11 for the Board and on drawings and so forth. 12 Mr. Geiner (phonetic) came up with that idea 13 later said, what about if we did that. I 14 said, you know, that, I'm sorry we didn't 15 think about it ahead of time because that 16 would have been something good to put in the 17 original plan. 18 So that was -- you have pardon us for 19 that because that's something we tried to 20 rectify, and if would have thought about it 21 sooner, we would have put it in the original 22 plans. 23 But we were busy trying to concentrate 24 on the new addition and the sanctuary and so 25 forth, we really just didn't think about it
14 1 at that time. 2 MR. IBE: Thank you. 3 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Member Skelcy. 4 MS. SKELCY: Now, from what I'm 5 looking at the plans, and what I have read in 6 the application, it appears that the overhang 7 is going to be nine feet long going from the 8 front of the building to the sidewalk? 9 MS. SEXTON: Nine foot in each 10 direction. 11 MS. SKELCY: Could it be made 12 smaller and did you consider making it 13 smaller at all? 14 MS. SEXTON: Well, it pretty much 15 needs to be nine foot coming -- going south 16 so we can -- for the posts to be attached, it 17 be sunk in the concrete and so forth. 18 The existing walkway and porch is eight 19 feet. So what we are going to do is we're 20 going to drop the post right at the edge of 21 the -- structurally-wise that's the best way 22 to do it and makes it strongest. 23 If you just put cleats and so forth on 24 the edge of the eight feet anyway, and 25 they're not as structurally sound as dropping
15 1 it into the ground cementing the posts in 2 place. 3 So basically we are just talking the 4 width of the posts and a little bit of an 5 overhang. We have had problems with ice 6 building up and so forth at the front 7 entrance, so this was a way to alleviate this 8 problem and to be a greater protection. 9 MS. SKELCY: Do you plan to put 10 like plastic rolls down the side, or 11 curtains? You understand what I'm asking? 12 MR. SEXTON: You know, like a 13 temporary type thing? 14 MS. SKELCY: Yes. 15 MR. SEXTON: Hadn't considered 16 that, and at this point, no, we hadn't 17 considered that. I think basically the main 18 problem is sleet and stuff like that would 19 come down, it would freeze and freezing and 20 thawing and so forth. 21 So that porch would pretty much 22 alleviate that problem or considerably 23 alleviate that problem. You might have some 24 blowing snow and so forth, but that's easier 25 to handle than trying to handle the ice.
16 1 MS. SKELCY: Thank you. 2 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Any other 3 questions? Member Krieger. 4 MS. KRIEGER: To the south, are 5 there parking spaces there already? 6 MR. SEXTON: Yes, there are. 7 MS. KRIEGER: And are there also 8 shrubbery or a fence? 9 MR. SEXTON: We have a fence to 10 the south, six foot fence, vinyl fence. We 11 have two rows of pine trees that go the 12 whole -- it's like a drainage area for the 13 parking lot. And so it's all been mulched 14 and so forth like that. 15 So -- and then there is a planting area 16 right at the edge of the -- for annuals right 17 at the edge of the porch between the -- there 18 is about a 16-inch flowerbed there. So 19 it's -- you know, well planted, so forth like 20 that. 21 MS. KRIEGER: Then for the ramp, 22 the porch that you're proposing that -- does 23 that abut up to the drive entrance, into 24 where the nine-by-nine that you came up 25 with --
17 1 MR. SEXTON: There is a set of 2 steps that are right there at the west end of 3 the porch. And that's basically what's -- is 4 there to not cover the steps, but 5 everything -- you know, like I said, the 6 porch itself is eight feet from the entrance, 7 the width of it is eight feet. 8 MS. KRIEGER: You can accommodate 9 three or four seniors in wheelchairs on a 10 porch nine-by-nine? 11 MS. SEXTON: One may have to wait 12 inside, but -- 13 MS. KRIEGER: That's okay. 14 Inside is okay. You're just looking -- we 15 are here for the roofing for this porch area 16 essentially? 17 MR. SEXTON: Yes. It's just -- 18 you can see on this particular drawing, it 19 does not extend down the rest of the way. 20 It's just for -- right by the step area 21 itself. This is nine foot wide and it comes 22 out nine feet. 23 MS. KRIEGER: For this -- for the 24 applicant for this, I have no problem with 25 the variance, with the evidence that has been
18 1 presented now. 2 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Any other 3 questions? Member Gerblick. 4 MR. GERBLICK: Is it just the two 5 entrances to the existing and, I guess, 6 addition to the structure? 7 MR. SEXTON: There is a new one 8 to the existing -- on the -- there is three 9 entrances. There is two on the east, but the 10 new -- when it goes into the new portion of 11 the sanctuary, that is a handicap ramp. The 12 other one is three steps up. So like I said, 13 this front entrance is really -- is the main 14 entrance for the church and it would be the 15 most suitable to be covered. 16 MR. GERBLICK: Thank you. 17 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: I just have a 18 couple questions, Pastor. It looks like from 19 one of the drawings there is no pitch to the 20 roof, it's a flat roof that you're proposing. 21 Or is that inaccurate? 22 MR. SEXTON: No. If you look at 23 the elevation, it basically -- it's the same 24 slope of the -- of this elevation, it's an 25 extension of the roof. And it is -- in this
19 1 it's peaked again. 2 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: I got it. It 3 looked flat, but I can see that is supposed 4 to be at an angle, with the pitch of your 5 existing roof? 6 MR. SEXTON: It will match the 7 pitch. 8 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Your intent is 9 to cover the area for basically drop-off and 10 pickup? 11 MR. SEXTON: Yes. 12 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: From inclement 13 weather? 14 MR. SEXTON: Yes, exactly. To 15 make it more (inaudible) for our 16 congregation. 17 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: I understand. 18 I agree. I think based on what you have 19 presented, it seems reasonable. I mean, it 20 is a church and, you know, inclement weather 21 which Michigan has, it seems logical. It 22 doesn't appear to affect the neighbors in 23 terms of their enjoyment of their properties. 24 So I generally don't have a problem with it 25 either.
20 1 Member Sanghvi? 2 MR. SANGHVI: Thank you. Couple 3 of questions. Your primary parking area is 4 on the east side? 5 MS. SEXTON: Yes. 6 MR. SANGHVI: Handicapped parking 7 is also on the east side? 8 MS. SEXTON: No, it's on the 9 south. There is -- the south side of the 10 building, there is a -- trees and so forth, 11 the fence we talked about. There is a whole 12 row of parking there and our handicapped 13 accessible parking spaces are right at the 14 end of this ramp basically. You have site 15 plan, you can see that. I was looking to see 16 if anyone had a site plan. 17 MR. SANGHVI: If you use your 18 door on the east side, will you need any 19 variance? 20 MR. SEXTON: Say that again, 21 please. 22 MR. SANGHVI: If you use your 23 door on the east side -- you have doors on 24 the east side also, right? 25 MR. SEXTON: Yes.
21 1 MR. SANGHVI: If you use them, or 2 whatever use you want to make, would you need 3 any variance at all? 4 MS. SEXTON: Well, we would 5 have -- we would have to relocate the 6 handicap spaces, but no, we wouldn't need any 7 variance, no. 8 MR. SANGHVI: Either way, you can 9 use this thing without needing any variance 10 at all? 11 MS. SEXTON: Again, it would 12 be -- it would be actually coming into a side 13 entrance, that goes right into the sanctuary. 14 Although the main entrance is, in fact, on 15 that south elevation. That's where the 16 vestibule is and the main entrance for the 17 church, the way that it best flows into the 18 sanctuary. 19 MR. SANGHVI: Thank you. 20 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Any other 21 questions for the applicant? If not, I will 22 entertain a motion. 23 Member Gedeon. 24 MR. GEDEON: I will offer a 25 motion in favor of this. I move to request
22 1 the variance as granted. There are unique 2 circumstances or physical conditions of the 3 property, specifically existing orientation 4 of the building. The existing porch, the 5 existing main entrance and ramp to that 6 entrance. 7 The need is not self-created. This was 8 an existing building that the applicant 9 purchased sometime ago. They didn't design 10 the building in this arrangement. Strict 11 compliance with the regulations governing the 12 area setback, frontage, height, bulk, density 13 and other dimensional requirements will 14 unreasonably prevent the property owner from 15 using the property for a permitted purpose, 16 and will render conformity of those 17 regulations unnecessary and burdensome. 18 And additionally, strict compliance of 19 the zoning ordinance could endanger the 20 safety of the parishioners, given the 21 possibility of snow and ice accumulating on 22 the ramp or porch. 23 The requested variance is the minimum 24 variance necessary to do substantial justice 25 to the applicant as well as the other
23 1 property owners in the district. 2 Specifically, they're only asking for a 3 slight extension to the porch to accommodate 4 the posts for the roof of the porch. 5 The requested variance will not cause an 6 adverse impact on surrounding properties, 7 property values or the use or enjoyment of 8 the property in the neighborhood or zoning 9 district. 10 Again, because this is an existing 11 entrance, they're not adding a new entrance. 12 MR. SANGHVI: Second. 13 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Seeing a 14 motion and a second, Ms. Pawlowski, can you 15 please call the roll. 16 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Gedeon? 17 MR. GEDEON: Yes. 18 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Gerblick? 19 MR. GERBLICK: Yes. 20 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Chairman Ghannam? 21 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Yes. 22 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Ibe? 23 MR. IBE: Yes. 24 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Krieger? 25 MS. KRIEGER: Yes.
24 1 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Sanghvi? 2 MR. SANGHVI: No. 3 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Skelcy? 4 MS. SKELCY: Yes. 5 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Motion passes six 6 to one. 7 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: 8 Congratulations, Pastor. 9 MR. SEXTON: Thank you very much. 10 Appreciate that. 11 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Next on the 12 agenda is Item No. 2, Case No. 11-035 for 13 Island Lakes of Novi. If the applicant is 14 here, please come forward. 15 Sir, please state your name and address. 16 MR. MINNOCK: Jason Minnock, 5075 17 Overdale Drive. 18 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Please raise 19 your right hand and be sworn. 20 MS. SKELCY: Do you swear or 21 affirm to tell the truth. 22 MR. MINNOCK: I do. 23 MS. SKELCY: Thank you. 24 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Please 25 proceed.
25 1 MR. MINNOCK: I am here asking 2 for a variance. I have been before this 3 Board a couple of times. There has actually 4 been one change. I sold -- I'm asking for 5 actually four variances. 6 Number six on the little map there that 7 you have, we sold this past weekend, so we 8 can actually take that sign down and put up a 9 small sign. So I'm actually asking for four 10 variances. 11 The reason being is that Island Lake is 12 a unique size development in Novi, has 13 multiple entrances. The homes that are left 14 tend to be more in the middle of the 15 community, and we have directional signs 16 getting people to them. 17 The other thing is since the last time I 18 was here, I had 12 variances now I'm asking 19 for four. We are -- and two times ago I 20 think I was at 18 or 19. So we have 21 definitely been -- as we sell out different 22 areas, we have been reducing the signage as 23 we go. 24 And so, you know, I think that the site 25 is a little bit unique, at least in terms of
26 1 the size, geographically in Novi. And I 2 think all the signs are in very good shape. 3 I don't know how many people have been out 4 there, but they look nice, they don't tend to 5 be intrusive, I don't believe. 6 So I'm just asking for that variance. 7 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Thank you, 8 sir. Is there anybody in the public who 9 would like to make a comment on this 10 particular case? 11 Seeing none, I will close the public 12 remarks section and ask our secretary to read 13 and correspondence. 14 MS. SKELCY: 300 notices were 15 mailed, 31 were returned and there were no 16 responses. 17 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Okay. Any 18 comments or questions from the City? 19 MR. BOULARD: Nothing to add. 20 MS. KUDLA: No. 21 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: I will open it 22 up then to the Board for questions. 23 Member Sanghvi, please. 24 MR. SANGHVI: Thank you. This 25 particular development, you can get lost in
27 1 it during the day, let alone at night, and we 2 can do with all the directional signs they 3 can have so people don't get lost. This time 4 they need one less number of signs, you see 5 than they had requested in the previous 6 variance. I have no difficulty supporting 7 this request. Thank you. 8 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Okay. Anybody 9 else? No other questions? Any motions, if 10 there is no other questions? 11 MS. SKELCY: All right. In the 12 Case of 11-035 Island Lake of Novi, I move 13 that we grant the four variances requested by 14 the applicant, number one. Number two, for 15 the Boathouse Drakes Bay Drive. Number 22 16 for Chesapeake Drive. Number 11 for the 17 Executive Model near for 50406 Drakes Bay 18 Drive. And Number 14 model homes near 49950 19 Drakes Bay Drive. 20 The request is based on circumstances or 21 features that are exceptional and unique to 22 the property, being that the development is 23 extremely large and the roads are rather 24 confusing to get around, and do not result 25 from conditions that exist generally in the
28 1 city or that are self-created. 2 The failure to grant the relief will 3 unreasonably prevent or limit the use of the 4 property and will result in substantially not 5 more than mere inconvenience or inability to 6 attain a higher economic or financial return. 7 The grant of relief will not result in a 8 use of a structure that is incompatible with 9 or unreasonably interferes with adjacent or 10 surrounding properties. 11 I note that this development is totally 12 enclosed, so the residents of Novi would not 13 be hindered by seeing these signs because you 14 have to actually be in the development to 15 observe them. 16 And the granting of the variance will 17 result in substantial justice being done to 18 both the applicant and adjacent or 19 surrounding properties and is not 20 inconsistent with the spirit of the 21 ordinance. 22 MR. IBE: Second. 23 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Seeing a 24 motion and a second, Ms. Pawlowski, will you 25 please call the roll.
29 1 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Gedeon? 2 MR. GEDEON: Yes. 3 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Gerblick? 4 MR. GERBLICK: Yes. yes. 5 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Chairman Ghannam? 6 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Yes. 7 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Ibe? 8 MR. IBE: Yes. 9 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Krieger? 10 MS. KRIEGER: Yes. 11 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Sanghvi? 12 MR. SANGHVI: Yes. 13 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Skelcy? 14 MS. SKELCY: Yes. 15 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Motion passes 16 seven to zero. 17 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Thank you, 18 sir. 19 Next on the agenda is Item No. 3, Case 20 No. 11-036 for 44911 Lindbergh Lane. Is the 21 applicant here? Please step forward, sir. 22 State your name and address. 23 MR. GOURNEAU: Frank Gourneau, 24 44911 Lindbergh. 25 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Please raise
30 1 your right hand and be sworn. 2 MS. SKELCY: Do you swear or 3 affirm to tell the truth? 4 MR. GOURNEAU: Yes, I do. 5 MS. SKELCY: Thank you. 6 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Please 7 proceed. 8 MR. GOURNEAU: You should have an 9 application that was submitted on behalf of 10 my wife and I for our residence. We are -- 11 we would like to move our current deck and 12 replace it with a three-seasons porch. The 13 project has been bid by a licensed 14 contractor. It has been through the 15 appropriate building compliances with the 16 Novi city. When we went through that 17 process, we were advised the footprint for 18 the three-seasons porch, which is contained 19 within the current footprint of the deck, 20 being it has a structure, or real structure 21 and some glass walls and windows, was 22 encroaching into the setback, I think it's 23 2,400 ordinance, 35 feet from back of the 24 property line. 25 That would be in the last page of
31 1 your -- last page of the file that we had, 2 the site map. And we needed a five foot 3 variance to allow that structure to go in, as 4 we encroached into the strcuture. 5 I would also like to add that since I 6 submitted the application, I do also have the 7 official (inaudible) from the homeowners 8 association. I did bring 13 copies of that, 9 if the Board is -- so wishes to have this for 10 their file. We do have that -- well, it has 11 been approved by the homeowners association. 12 We do believe that the project is what 13 we need to do to help our family continue to 14 grow and develop into the residence we 15 currently own. We did not build the home. 16 We purchased to from a previous owner, so we 17 were not aware of some of the setbacks with 18 unique backyard and property lines. 19 Additionally, we do think that what we 20 are proposing is esthetically pleasing with 21 the homeowners association and bylaws. We do 22 think it will add tax value to the home and 23 we hopefully anticipate it will support 24 resale as well. 25 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Thank you,
32 1 sir. Is there anybody in the public who that 2 like to make a comment on this particular 3 case? 4 Seeing none, I will close the public 5 remarks section and ask our secretary to read 6 the correspondence. 7 MS. SKELCY: Fifty notices were 8 mailed. Two were returned and there was one 9 approval. And it's from Stacy, S-t-a-c-y, 10 Sheena, S-h-e-e-n-a. She writes, "Number 11 one, how does this effect my property since 12 it's a neighbor across the street. If there 13 is no effect, I am okay with it." 14 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Any comments 15 from the City? 16 MR. BOULARD: Nothing to add. 17 MS. KUDLA: No. 18 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Then I will 19 open it up to the Board for discussion. 20 Member Sangvhi. 21 MR. SANGHVI: Thank you. I had 22 the privilege of seeing your beautiful home 23 the other day. I know you don't know about 24 it, but I was there. It is a beautiful home 25 Your backyard overlooks a very peculiar angle
33 1 in the lake shoreline itself, right? 2 MR. GOURNEAU: Yes, sir, it does. 3 MR. SANGHVI: The shape of the -- 4 not only the shape of the lot, but the grade 5 is also very peculiar out in that area. 6 MR. GOURNEAU: Yes, it is. 7 MR. SANGHVI: Doing this, I don't 8 think we are going to be looking into 9 anyone's bedroom from there. 10 MR. GOURNEAU: No, sir. 11 MR. SANGHVI: So I have no 12 supporting your request. 13 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Thank you. 14 Member Gedeon? 15 MR. GEDEON: Just to clarify, 16 your backyard backs up to West Lake Drive, 17 not -- so there is no immediate neighbor 18 behind you, there is a street separating? 19 MR. GOURNEAU: That is correct, 20 yes. It backs up to West Lake Drive. 21 Actually that section behind is like -- I 22 think it's got sewer clearance and there is 23 an easement in there. So we are well within 24 that. We didn't realize there was a setback. 25 MR. GEDEON: I don't have a
34 1 problem with this. 2 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Just to 3 clarify. This does fit on the footprint of 4 your existing porch? 5 MR. GOURNEAU: Yes, it does. In 6 fact, that was some of the area we didn't 7 realize, the actual stairs -- the footprint 8 actually is much further, but because it was 9 structure, the city planner said it was -- 10 fall under the dwelling, that setback 11 variance. 12 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Likewise, I 13 have no problem either. I think it's in good 14 taste, and certainly pleasing to you 15 neighbors, so I have no problem with it. 16 Anybody else have any comments or 17 motions? 18 Member Ibe. 19 MR. IBE: Mr. Chair, in Case No. 20 11-036, 44911 Lindbergh Lane. I move that we 21 grant the applicant's request as requested, 22 for the following reasons. One, that there 23 are unique circumstances with the physical 24 makeup of the property itself. As the 25 applicant has clearly articulated the
35 1 topography of the land itself, the way it is 2 shaped, and the fact that the backyard backs 3 into West Lake and does not really encroach 4 upon other lands or other properties, makes 5 it quite unique. That this property should 6 be -- the applicant should be given the 7 opportunity to put in this improvement. 8 However, the need is not self-created because 9 this applicant purchased the property as is 10 (inaudible). 11 Of course, I didn't quite understand 12 what needed to be done, but now that the need 13 arises to improve upon the property, it is 14 while -- the variance should be granted. 15 In total, that the straight compliance 16 with the regulations are governing the area 17 setback. If in force will unreasonably 18 prevent the property owners from using the 19 property as should be permitted. 20 The requested variance is necessary to 21 do substantial justice to the applicant as 22 well as other property owners in the 23 district. The requested variance will not 24 adversely impact on the surrounding 25 properties. In fact, I think it will enhance
36 1 the property values of the properties around 2 the subdivision as well as that of the 3 applicant. 4 Based on this, and what has been stated 5 by the applicant as well as the discussions 6 carried on by the members, I would move that 7 we grant the request. 8 MS. KRIEGER: Second. 9 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Seeing a 10 motion and a second, Ms. Pawlowski, can you 11 please call the roll. 12 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Gedeon? 13 MR. GEDEON: Yes. 14 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Gerblick? 15 MR. GERBLICK: Yes. 16 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Chairman Ghannam? 17 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Yes. 18 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Ibe? 19 MR. IBE: Yes. 20 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Krieger? 21 MS. KRIEGER: Yes. 22 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Sanghvi? 23 MR. SANGHVI: Yes. 24 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Skelcy? 25 MS. SKELCY: Yes.
37 1 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Motion passes 2 seven to zero. 3 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: 4 Congratulations, sir. 5 MR. GOURNEAU: Thank you very 6 much for your consideration. Thank you. 7 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Next on the 8 agenda is Item No. 4, Case No. 11-037 for 9 Lenox Park. Please step forward. Please 10 state your name and address. 11 MR. MADORSKY: Sam Madorsky, 12 31550 Northwestern Highway, Suite 220, 13 Farmington Hills. 14 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Are you an 15 attorney, sir? 16 MR. MADORSKY: No. 17 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Can you please 18 raise your right hand and be sworn. 19 MS. SKELCY: Do you swear or 20 affirm to tell the truth? 21 MR. MADORSKY: Yes. 22 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Please 23 proceed. 24 MR. MADORSKY: I am the 25 authorized representative of PT Commerce,
38 1 LLC, the developer of Lenox Park. 2 Lenox Park is 188 unit duplex 3 condominium development located on the west 4 side of the M5, north of Thirteen Mile Road. 5 I am here before you to request the extension 6 of an existing approved variance to allow for 7 a marketing sign along the M5. 8 The existing development is 9 approximately 80 percent sold. We are in the 10 last leg of sales with 42 units remaining of 11 the total of 188 that remain for sale. 12 We market this property, along with our 13 building partner MJC Homes, through various 14 avenues, including print ad, newspaper, 15 mailers, flyers, a website, and through our 16 sign here on the M5. 17 In reviewing the weekly traffic reports 18 that are provided, approximately 50 to 19 60 percent of all traffic to the site is 20 provided via drive-by traffic from the sign 21 that is located on the M5. 22 This site does have unique 23 characteristics in that it does not have any 24 frontage on its entrance road, Thirteen Mile 25 Road. Access to the site is provided via an
39 1 easement over at the Brightmoor Christian 2 Church property. 3 The property does have approximately 4 one-third of a mile of frontage along the M5. 5 The majority of the frontage is screened with 6 natural vegetation. Therefore, drive-by 7 traffic would be unaware that the development 8 exists without this temporary sign, and we 9 are requesting a two-year extension of the 10 variance, being that we have approximately 42 11 units remaining, and over the last two years, 12 we have averaged an absorption of 20 per 13 year. 14 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Thank you, 15 sir. Is there anybody in the public who 16 would like to make a comment on this 17 particular case? 18 Seeing none, I will close the public 19 remarks section and ask our secretary to 20 please read any correspondence. 21 MS. SKELCY: 195 notices were 22 sent, 53 were returned and there were no 23 responses. 24 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Okay. Any 25 comments from the City on this one?
40 1 MR. BOULARD: Just one question, 2 if I might. On the -- in the packet that you 3 provided, Exhibit B, is a photograph of the 4 sign. Exhibit C is the drawing of the design 5 of the sign. 6 I seem to recall the last request for 7 variance, one of the things that happened is 8 panels added to the sign over time to the 9 point that it got bigger. And it appears 10 that that's underway again. I assume that 11 that could be rectified? 12 MR. MADORSKY: Absolutely. I'm 13 guessing that was an overzealous sales 14 associates who was adding the directional 15 arrow signs. We'll have that fixed placed 16 within the square footage of the sign that is 17 approved. 18 MR. BOULARD: Thank you. Nothing 19 else. 20 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Thank you. 21 I'll open it up to the Board for discussion 22 then. Any questions or comments? 23 Member Sanghvi. 24 MR. SANGHVI: Thank you. You 25 seen that sign lately?
41 1 MR. MADORSKY: I drove by 2 yesterday. 3 MR. SANGHVI: It's barely even 4 visible because of the overgrown bushes and 5 trees around it. 6 So (inaudible) the sign is not easy to 7 find the sign itself. Maybe you want to make 8 sure it is visible. 9 MR. MADORSKY: Absolutely. We'll 10 look into it by adjusting the landscaping 11 that's around it. 12 MR. SANGHVI: And how about all 13 the additions? What size of sign do you got 14 now? 15 MR. MADORSKY: I believe the sign 16 is approved for 12 and a half feet in height. 17 The -- as I stated, the additions to the 18 signs were, I believe, a burst that stated 19 the amount that was sold to perspective 20 purchasers that were driving by can see that 21 the development has been sold. That should 22 have been placed within the sign as to 23 opposed on the side of the sign. And the 24 additional part was an arrow pointing to 25 Thirteen Mile Road, to right on Thirteen Mile
42 1 Road. This also will be placed within the 2 square footage of the sign. 3 MR. SANGHVI: There were some 4 additions on this sign. You can part the -- 5 (inaudible). 6 MR. MADORSKY: The additional 7 size or additional graphics? 8 MR. SANGHVI: (Inaudible). These 9 are illegal additions, you know, that -- 10 MR. MADORSKY: They will be 11 removed. 12 MR. SANGHVI: Thank you. 13 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Member Skelcy. 14 MS. SKELCY: How can we be sure 15 that this won't happen again, where they will 16 get expanded by another overzealous sales 17 associate? 18 MR. MADORSKY: I can assure you 19 that it will not occur again because I do not 20 want to be before you again with the same 21 thing occurring. I will provide photographs 22 after the sign is rectified, and then a memo 23 will be sent out to sale associates to ensure 24 that that does not occur again. 25 MS. SKELCY: All right, thank
43 1 you. 2 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Any other 3 questions or comments? 4 If there are none, I would like to 5 entertain a motion. Member Skelcy. 6 MS. SKELCY: In the Case of 7 11-037, Lenox Park located at 40812 Thirteen 8 Mile Road, I move that we grant the variance 9 that has been requested, which would allow 10 for a 57 square foot sign, 12 and a half feet 11 high, real estate marketing sign, which was 12 previously approved under ZBA 09-035, and ZBA 13 07-030. With the condition that the extra 14 signage which violates the size regulation be 15 removed, and not be reinstalled. 16 The request is based upon circumstances 17 or features that are exceptional and unique 18 to the property, in that it is shielded from 19 M5 and some people can believe that it is 20 part of Fox Run. And do not result from 21 conditions that exist generally in the city 22 or that are self-created. 23 Also the failure to grant the relief 24 requested will unreasonably prevent or limit 25 the use of the property and will result in
44 1 substantially more than mere inconvenience or 2 inability to attain a higher economic or 3 financial return. 4 Finally, the grant of relief will not 5 result in the use of a structure that is 6 incompatible with or unreasonably interferes 7 with adjacent or surrounding properties. I 8 note that it is on a busy road and it will 9 not be seen by residents in other 10 subdivisions. And it will result in 11 substantial justice being done to both the 12 applicant and adjacent or surrounding 13 properties and is not inconsistent with the 14 spirit of the ordinance. 15 MS. KRIEGER: Second. 16 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Is there any 17 further comment? 18 MR. SANGHVI: I just wanted to 19 suggest that we maybe we should add that the 20 sign shall be as shown in Exhibit C. 21 MR. GEDEON: I guess I would 22 comment that I think the issue is the 23 additions that are currently there, go beyond 24 the 57 square feet that the variance is for. 25 And I think that's the issue rather than the
45 1 particular, you know, words on the sign or 2 symbols on the sign. 3 So I would not support amending the 4 motion in that regard because I don't want to 5 unduly limit the applicant, so long as 6 they're within the 57 square feet that the 7 variance is for. 8 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: I would tend 9 to agree with that also. The wording we 10 don't necessarily want to regulate, but it is 11 sign and if there is any extensions of that 12 sign that are not within the variance, 13 obviously the City would have to deal with 14 that. 15 Member Krieger. 16 MS. KRIEGER: Then the petitioner 17 had asked for two years for the variance? 18 MS. SKELCY: That's right. I 19 would like to amend my motion to include a 20 two-year limitation. 21 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: That's 22 accepted by the seconder. Any further 23 comment? 24 Seeing none, Ms. Pawlowski, can you 25 please call the roll.
46 1 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Gedeon? 2 MR. GEDEON: Yes. 3 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Gerblick? 4 MR. GERBLICK: Yes. 5 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Chairman Ghannam? 6 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Yes. 7 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Ibe? 8 MR. IBE: Yes. 9 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Krieger? 10 MS. KRIEGER: Yes. 11 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Sanghvi? 12 MR. SANGHVI: Yes. 13 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Skelcy? 14 MS. SKELCY: Yes. 15 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Motion passes 16 seven to zero. 17 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Thank you, 18 sir. 19 Next on the agenda is Item No. 5, Case 20 No. 11-038 for Mercedes Benz of Novi. 21 Can you please state your name and 22 address. 23 MR. MADDEN: Matthew Madden of 24 19215 Lexington. 25 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Are you an
47 1 attorney, sir? 2 MR. MADDEN: No. 3 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Will you be 4 the only one speaking for the applicant? 5 MR. MADDEN: Yes, unless the 6 owner has some other insight. 7 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Raise your 8 right hand and be sworn. 9 MS. SKELCY: Do you swear or 10 affirm to tell the truth? 11 MR. MADDEN: I do. 12 As you probably have noticed, we 13 recently completed the renovations called the 14 Auto Hubs renovations with the property 15 Mercedes Benz of Novi. At which point the 16 current signage on the building, it was 17 almost reduced in half from the previous 18 signage. 19 As part of an ongoing business expansion 20 development, the owner wishes to expand his 21 business to include commercial vans offered 22 by Mercedes Benz this winter. 23 This would required from a corporate 24 standpoint, an addition of approximately 15 25 square feet to the existing wall mounted star
48 1 on the east. 2 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Please step 3 back from the microphone, you're creating a 4 lot of noise. Thank you. 5 MR. MADDEN: Should I repeat 6 anything? 7 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: If you'd like. 8 We heard most of it, but -- 9 MR. MADDEN: As part of the 10 business expansion, part of the ongoing 11 development that Mercedes Benz of Novi, we 12 are going to include a new product line, a 13 van. The existing star on the east elevation 14 would require a 15 square foot sign in 15 addition to the star that would say 16 commercial vans. That is the variance we 17 were looking for. 18 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Okay. Thank 19 you, sir. Is there anybody in the public who 20 would like to make a comment on this 21 particular case? 22 Seeing none, I will close the public 23 remarks section and ask the secretary to read 24 any correspondence. 25 MS. SKELCY: It does not indicate
49 1 how many were mailed, but one was returned, 2 so we know at least one was mailed. And 3 there was one approval from Allie Fayz, 4 A-l-l-i-e, F-a-y-z. "I have no objection to 5 No. 11-038 Mercedes Benz of Novi, however, we 6 feel that Pheasant Run Plaza request years 7 ago should be reconsidered since we are 8 facing economic hardship as well". 9 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Any comments 10 or questions by the City? 11 MR. BOULARD: Just a little bit 12 of background. There was a previous 13 variance, this was mentioned, in 1997. The 14 sign as proposed, both the existing and the 15 new fit within that size, there was 42 square 16 feet approved previously, the total now will 17 be 39 square feet. The reason that the 18 petitioner is here is the variance in 1997 19 was specific, that it was this symbol, the 20 Mercedes symbol, in fact, it actually 21 referenced on a sheet that was attached back 22 then. 23 So my suggestion would be, I would 24 support the modification of this previous 25 variance to allow this, and would suggest at
50 1 the same time, if the Board is so inclined 2 they could use this opportunity to free up 3 whatever text or symbols or whatnot on the 4 sign, so they're not back here in the future 5 for the same thing. 6 Also I want to point out that in the 7 notice, the section is listed as the sign is 8 from the variance in 1997, to the best of my 9 knowledge. And the appropriate section in 10 the current version of the ordinance -- 11 excuse me -- is 28-5-1D1. I'd be happy to 12 answer any questions. 13 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: If I'm getting 14 this right, they had a variance for a 42 15 square foot sign, but it was limited to the 16 symbol? 17 MR. BOULARD: Yes, it was 18 specific. In '97 the paperwork limited, it 19 actually said, sign, you know, 1322, there is 20 a sheet with all the available signs on it, 21 that one was referenced. 22 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Now they're 23 requesting a 49 -- I'm sorry, 39 square foot 24 one, which is less -- 25 MR. BOULARD: Right, the sign
51 1 that is installed is less than it had been 2 allowed under the previous variance. And 3 they're adding to that, but even with the 4 addition, it's still smaller than the 5 previous variance. 6 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: All right. I 7 will open it up to the Board then for 8 discussion. Member Sanghvi. Before you 9 raise your hand, I will call on you. 10 MR. SANGHVI: I have no problem 11 with approving this. My only comment is when 12 a prestigious automobile, why do they want to 13 try to sell vans, I mean, you put what you 14 like. I have no problem with it. I just 15 wondered, it is strange that you want to 16 advertise -- 17 MR. MADDEN: It's an additional 18 line of vehicles that is offered by Mercedes 19 Benz, new in the US as of a year ago. 20 They're asking certain dealers in the country 21 to represent that product line, and they have 22 chosen us to do so. It is the Mercedes of 23 vans. 24 MR. SANGHVI: Thank you. 25 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Any other
52 1 questions or comments? 2 While they're thinking, I also have no 3 problem with this in terms of reducing the, 4 number one, the size of the sign, but also 5 freeing up any advertisement you want to put 6 on it. I have no problem with that either. 7 Anybody else? Member Krieger. 8 MS. KRIEGER: I guess I'd 9 reiterate the comment that the emblem and 10 size that underneath the commercial vans is 11 good now. It's just Bagger Dave's on Novi 12 Road, they had asked for now serving 13 breakfast, and now it says, Michigan Draft 14 Beer. So in the future, if you chose 15 something else, that would be up to you. 16 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Any other 17 comments? I'll entertain a motion, if not. 18 Member Krieger. 19 MS. KRIEGER: In Case No. 11-038, 20 Mercedes Benz of Novi, on 39500 Grand River 21 Avenue. I move to approve the request of the 22 petitioner for the granting of the 23 modification of the previous variance 97-057 24 from 28-5D of the sign ordinance to allow 25 additional lettering to be installed on the
53 1 existing to 20 by 60 -- 56 -- I'm sorry, 2 20-5D1. Thank you. 3 And that the applicant has -- this 4 request is based upon circumstances and 5 features that are exceptional and unique to 6 the property, and do not result from 7 conditions that exist generally in the city 8 or that are self-created. 9 The failure to grant relief will 10 unreasonably prevent or limit the use of the 11 property and will result in substantially 12 more than mere inconvenience or inability to 13 attain a higher economic or financial return. 14 And the grant of the relief will not 15 result in a use of structure that is 16 incompatible with or unreasonably interferes 17 with adjacent or surrounding properties and 18 will do substantial justice to the applicant 19 and adjacent properties and is not 20 inconsistent with the spirit of the 21 ordinance. 22 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Who is going 23 to second? Member Sanghvi? 24 MR. SANGHVI: Yes. 25 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Seeing a
54 1 motion and a second -- Mr. Boulard, you have 2 a comment? 3 MR. BOULARD: Could I confirm 4 that parallel with the conversation that the 5 face of the sign can be whatever the owner 6 chooses? 7 MS. KRIEGER: Yes. 8 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Any other 9 further discussion? Seeing none, 10 Ms. Pawlowski, can you please call the roll. 11 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Gedeon? 12 MR. GEDEON: Yes. 13 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Gerblick? 14 MR. GERBLICK: Yes. 15 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Chairman Ghannam? 16 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Yes. 17 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Ibe? 18 MR. IBE: Yes. 19 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Krieger? 20 MS. KRIEGER: Yes. 21 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Sanghvi? 22 MR. SANGHVI: Yes. 23 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Skelcy? 24 MS. SKELCY: Yes. 25 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Motion passes
55 1 seven to zero. 2 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: 3 Congratulations, sir. 4 Next on the agenda is Item No. 6, Case 5 No. 11-039, Highline Club Apartments. Please 6 step forward. 7 Would you please state your name, sir, 8 for the record. 9 MR. BARBAS: My name is 10 Andrew Barbas. 11 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Are you an 12 attorney? 13 MR. BARBAS: That's not why I'm 14 here, but yes. 15 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: If you are 16 attorney, you don't need to be sworn, that's 17 all. 18 You can go ahead and proceed. 19 MR. BARBAS: Sometimes I think 20 maybe the attorneys are the ones who you 21 really should have. Never mind. 22 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Are you 23 speaking tonight, sir? 24 MR. ROBERTS: Yes, maybe. 25 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Please raise
56 1 your right hand and be sworn. 2 MS. SKELCY: State your name. 3 MR. ROBERTS: Gary Roberts. 4 MS. SKELCY: Do you swear or 5 affirm to tell the truth? 6 MR. ROBERTS: I do. 7 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Please 8 proceed. 9 MR. BARBAS: As you just heard, 10 my name is Andrew Barbas. I am here, I am a 11 managing member of the Heights of Novi and 12 the property name has been changed. It is 13 the Heights of Novi. The property is not 14 what you have it was the Highline Club. And 15 so I will be referring to it as the Heights. 16 The application that was the way the 17 application was filed. 18 But in any event, as we set forth in our 19 application, we're requesting a variance for 20 the installation of a sign within, not the 21 right-of-way, but within the proposed 22 right-of-way, fronting the property, as well 23 as a variance in size and design and 24 structure. For background purposes, we 25 recently acquired the Heights of Novi
57 1 Apartments. 2 During our acquisition purposes, we had 3 a number of representative from mortgage 4 lenders, engineers, consultants, et cetera, 5 to visit community. And many of the 6 consultants had a lot of difficulty finding 7 the community. Even Gary Roberts couldn't 8 find it twice. 9 It is -- and the reason is that because 10 it was constructed, the topography, I will 11 show you in a quick minute. The sign and 12 everything is far enough back, and there are 13 other signs blocking it. Anything you put 14 under there is up there. 15 And I have had trouble finding the 16 community and have had to slow down to see 17 the sign. My partner, who is my 91 year-old 18 father, when he first visited the community, 19 he left with one of our assistants, and his 20 first comment was, you have got to move that 21 sign up, and I don't care, just don't it. He 22 doesn't know the ZBAs. I do. 23 But what I would like to do very quickly 24 is go through the posters that we have. 25 MR. ROBERTS: It is hard to see
58 1 in here and we are not going to be able to 2 put up some of the photographs. You all have 3 a packet, I believe, and have seen the site. 4 MR. BARBAS: This is -- just very 5 quickly. This is a survey of the entire 6 site. I don't know that we are going to need 7 it very much. Other than to note that the 8 entrance, is -- as -- 9 MR. ROBERTS: As you're traveling 10 down Nine Mile Road heading west, there is 11 the law building next to it. There is the 12 berm, and the sign right now is in back of 13 the small island. The island is somewhat 14 smaller than a normal island might be, and 15 there is double right-of-way. There is the 16 existing right-of-way, which we did adhere to 17 when we proposed moving the sign forward. 18 There is the proposed right-of-way, which is 19 pushing the sign all the way back to the far 20 corner, and a safety hazard as seen from the 21 back, as you're driving through, what you can 22 see is, the same location. 23 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Sir, do me a 24 favor, if you're going to speak, just try to 25 get close to the microphone so everybody can
59 1 hear you. 2 MR. ROBERTS: I'm sorry. You can 3 see right now, the location of the existing 4 sign is where the ordinance would require 5 that is, we are suggesting we move it forward 6 into the island, so that you can it as you're 7 traveling down both ways on Nine Mile Road. 8 MR. BARBAS: We are not 9 reconstructing. There is not going to be any 10 reconstruction of the island itself. We are 11 just talking about moving the sign from the 12 back of the traffic island to the front. 13 MR. ROBERTS: Really from a 14 safety standpoint right now, if somebody were 15 to hit that, it is right at the end. 16 What we are proposing is within the 17 10 feet back from the existing right-of-way, 18 which would normally be the case, and except 19 that it is in a proposed right-of-way, and it 20 would be much more visible heading down Nine 21 Mile Road. 22 Right now you can't even see the sign in 23 some of these pictures. The landscaping, we 24 have started to redo it already, to open it 25 up and enhance the site, but the sign is all
60 1 the way back in the island where it is very 2 difficult to see. 3 MS. SKELCY: Can you bring those 4 pictures closer. 5 MR. ROBERTS: Sure. 6 MR. BARBAS: You know, frankly, 7 the reasons for our request are really safety 8 reasons. We seriously have had problems with 9 people having to slow down in front of the 10 site. We have had problems with people 11 seeing the site. We have, you know -- to us 12 it was obvious when we looked at it, but, 13 from other people who had visited the site, 14 we are getting that as a comment, which is -- 15 they were just going right by it. 16 And if Nine Mile Road was expanded, and 17 has been expanded, then everything would be 18 fine. Because it would be -- you know, if 19 the real -- if the proposed right-of-way was 20 the real right-of-way, in terms of there 21 being a widened road, then the sign would be 22 in a fine location. 23 Right now, it is not visible at all, 24 which is why we are asking for, one, it to be 25 moved forward, two, it to be made slightly
61 1 larger. And the third thing is -- and 2 slightly higher, and the last thing is your 3 ordinance requires posts under -- or 4 prohibits posts under the sign, and because 5 of the width of the boulevard, and Gary can 6 speak to it better than I, but we wanted -- 7 we want to be able to -- it will have much 8 better irritation. And it's going to be 9 covered by plants. In other words, you will 10 not see any posts. It will look like it's on 11 the, you know, on the ground. 12 We feel that, you know, it's -- in terms 13 of the requirements, you know, it is a -- we 14 feel the circumstances are unique to this 15 location. And that it is for a safety issue, 16 and it certainly is something that's more 17 than an inconvenience. We are not really 18 doing this for economic purposes. I should 19 also add we are putting a substantial amount 20 of money into the community because of a lot 21 of deferred maintenance that exists in the 22 community. 23 And we don't think it's going to 24 interfere with any other property in the 25 area. Actually a large number of the other
62 1 properties have signs that are closer because 2 they were constructed and built before the 3 requirement that they not be within the 4 proposed right-of-way. 5 So that with, most everything is in the 6 application. I'd rather not get redundant. 7 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Thank you, 8 sir. 9 Is there anybody in the public who would 10 like to make a comment on this particular 11 case? 12 Seeing none, I will close the public 13 remarks section and ask our secretary to read 14 the correspondence. 15 MS. SKELCY: 289 notices were 16 mailed, ten were returned by the post office 17 and there are three objections. 18 One from Lawrence Dew, D-e-w, at 40174 19 Sand Point in Novi. He writes, "I see no 20 reason to have a larger sign. I have lived 21 here 28 years and passed the apartment 22 complex many times. It seems old sign size 23 was up to code and was quite visible". 24 Next, we have E period, M period, 25 Kaiser, K-a-i-s-e-r, who lives at 22252 South
63 1 Edgewater in Novi. EM writes, "There is no 2 reason their sign needs to be significantly 3 larger than the maximum size established in 4 the existing zoning laws. If it's larger, I 5 think it will be an eyesore and detract from 6 the nice looking stretch of Nine Mile between 7 Haggerty and Meadowbrook. I adamantly object 8 to the approval of a larger sign. The 24 9 square foot sign maximum is perfectly 10 reasonable. There is no reason it needs to 11 be larger. Thank you". 12 From G. Karen Provenzano, 13 P-r-o-v-e-n-z-a-n-o, who lives at 22284 14 Edgewater in Novi. She writes, speed limit 15 is only 35 miles per hour in this area. Slow 16 enough to find that apartment complex. 17 Please don't litter this section of Novi with 18 unnecessary signage. One reason I bought my 19 condo on Nine Mile was because of the 20 well-kept rural residential look. 21 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Any comment 22 from the City? 23 MR. BOULARD: The only comment 24 that I would have is, I did have an 25 opportunity to talk with the applicant this
64 1 afternoon and mention that one of my 2 concerns, particularly with if the Board were 3 to allow the sign to be put in the proposed 4 driveway, is if that right-of-way is ever 5 developed by the Road Commission or the City 6 or whoever, that it would be the expense and 7 liability of relocating that sign back out of 8 right-of-way, so that was a concern. That 9 was something that we discussed, the 10 petitioner thought that if that was a 11 sticking point that he might have some 12 suggestions for -- 13 MR. BARBAS: If there is a 14 concern -- not that it's a huge cost, but if 15 there is a concern on the cost of moving the 16 sign, if the road is expanded, we are happy 17 to, you know, waive any rights to have 18 compensation for the cost of moving the sign. 19 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Anything else 20 from the City? 21 MS. KUDLA: I would make that a 22 condition of the motion. 23 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: If it's 24 approved, okay. 25 Actually I had one question. They are
65 1 entitled to a sign, by right, correct? 2 MR. BOULARD: Yes, they are 3 entitled to the sign that's there, by right. 4 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: The question 5 becomes location, area and the height, those 6 are the three variances? 7 MR. BOULARD: Height, location, 8 area, and the fact that it's raised up six 9 inches without a base on it. 10 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: I will open it 11 up to the Board then for discussion. 12 Member Krieger. 13 MS. KRIEGER: Question. The 14 slope of the entrance and the sign -- the 15 brick work around it, can you explain. I 16 guess, as you go up the slope, it would be -- 17 I don't know what the word to use. 18 MR. ROBERTS: It is relatively 19 flat, but the top will be level, so some of 20 this won't go higher than the maximum, you 21 know, we have drawn. But if it slopes -- if 22 it the slopes up, then the wall will be 23 buried, okay? Does that answer your 24 question? 25 MS. KRIEGER: Yes, my first one.
66 1 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: If you are 2 going to talk, sir, you have to talk into the 3 microphone. 4 MS. KRIEGER: Then you will be 5 using brick landscape around the bottom, at 6 the base, so it will change the curb that's 7 there to -- 8 MR. ROBERTS: No it is recessed 9 in. 10 MR. BARBAS: We have plantings on 11 both sides of it, in the planter and outside 12 of the planter. 13 MS. KRIEGER: So we can't see it 14 from this angle, from the picture of your 15 sign that you have got there, but if you look 16 from above, there is an area you're going to 17 have dirt in the inside, that you will put in 18 landscaping and flowers so those pedestals 19 will not be visible? 20 MR. ROBERTS: Exactly. That was 21 the point. A lot of times signs are put in, 22 by the time any vegetation goes along, you 23 have seen it 100 times, the plants grow and 24 you can't see the sign at all. So all we 25 have done is raised it up six inches, you're
67 1 really not going to see it. It saturates one 2 bed with irrigation that way. The foliage 3 will cover it up. 4 We have other methods of making it 5 solid, but it would bulk up the sign and it 6 really becomes very, very unnecessary. So 7 all we are trying to do is get that six 8 inches with very low shrubs to be underneath 9 it. 10 MS. KRIEGER: It would be 11 maintained? 12 MR. ROBERTS: Oh, yes. 13 MS. KRIEGER: I have driven by it 14 a million times, and I have never remembered 15 the name of this sign because it has been 16 more entranceways. So I'm not too 17 disinclined to accept this. I'd like to hear 18 from my other -- 19 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Thank you. 20 Member Skelcy. 21 MS. SKELCY: Yeah. I have a 22 question. I went blank there for a minute. 23 I have a problem with it being in the 24 right-of-way. Here is my question for you. 25 Have you considered putting it on the
68 1 sign site, in that photograph it says, now 2 leasing. Why not move it there so that you 3 don't have to request -- 4 MR. BARBAS: Actually it's 5 farther back than where that sign says now 6 leasing. 7 MS. SKELCY: No, replace -- move 8 the Heights of Novi to where it says, now 9 leasing. What about placing the -- this 10 requested sign in the area, in the 11 photographs -- 12 MR. BARBAS: Oh. That now 13 leasing sign is left over sign -- 14 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: You need to 15 speak into the microphone. 16 MR. ROBERTS: You're referring to 17 the photographs we have showed you? 18 MS. SKELCY: Yes. 19 MR. BARBAS: I'm sorry. I'm not 20 sure -- 21 MS. SKELCY: It's a red sign. 22 It's in two of the photos. 23 MR. ROBERTS: That's way into the 24 right-of-way. 25 MR. BARBAS: That one is gone.
69 1 That one was somehow not noticed, yeah, that 2 was previous owners. That is way into the 3 right-of-way. 4 We are not talking about putting 5 anything in the right-of-way. We are -- it's 6 behind the right-of-way, it's in what is in 7 the proposed right-of-way. 8 MS. SKELCY: Oh, okay, it's in 9 the proposed. 10 MR. BARBAS: We are not asking 11 for anything inside the right-of-way itself. 12 In other words, if there was not a plan 13 to expand Nine Mile Road, so the -- so what 14 you were looking at is what the current 15 right-of-way is, we would not be in front of 16 you in terms of the location. 17 We are just asking to move it up. If 18 they expand Nine Mile Road, great, it can go 19 back. 20 But right now it's because it's only two 21 lanes, and because the proposed right-of-way 22 it's really looking at a four-lane road being 23 there, it's back two lanes, or whatever the 24 distance is. 25 MS. SKELCY: Ms. Kudla, is it
70 1 possible that we can restrain their future 2 rights under eminent domain if that there is 3 a taking in order to expand the road? 4 MS. KUDLA: It sounds like 5 they're going to agree to, and what we would 6 put on the condition, if in the event that 7 the road is expanded, we will would not have 8 to pay compensation, and they will move the 9 sign at their cost. It won't be considered 10 condemnation to move the sign. 11 It will just be moved back at the City's 12 request or the County's request. 13 MR. BARBAS: At our expense. I 14 hope you understand, we are not talking about 15 the current right-of-way. 16 MS. SKELCY: Yes, I understand. 17 Thank you. 18 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Actually I 19 have a few questions for you. 20 Why is it necessary that you have it 21 raised, what is it, several -- or several 22 inches? 23 MR. BARBAS: The reason that it 24 is necessary. Are you talking six inches or 25 the --
71 1 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Yes, six 2 inches. 3 MR. ROBERTS: It's really 4 mainly -- like I said, as a designer and a 5 landscape architect, I have seen so many 6 signs that are put right down into the 7 ground, and as soon as you put any vegetation 8 around it whatsoever, it gets hidden. 9 So all we are doing it raising it up six 10 inches and using posts that you won't see. 11 Otherwise, anything we put in there, even the 12 shortest plants would cover it up right away. 13 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: I'm not a 14 landscape engineer, but can't you put some 15 kind of skirting that will hide that? The 16 reason why is because this may be 17 considered -- I don't know if it's considered 18 a pole sign under our ordinances? 19 MR. BARBAS: The concern we have 20 one, is, as Gary mentioned before, it is a 21 very narrow boulevard and the area -- so we 22 can't do any -- you know, having the ground 23 come up like this, that it really has to be 24 flat because it's not that wide. 25 And if we can't raise the sign, all we
72 1 are going to be able to do is basically put 2 like wood chips or something that is really 3 not nearly as attractive as plants down there 4 because otherwise you're going to start 5 cutting off the bottom of the sign. 6 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: I appreciate 7 that answer. Then the question becomes, what 8 about the height. If you're allowed five 9 feet, why do you need that extra foot? 10 I mean, let me ask it this way. 11 Assuming the Board approved the move of the 12 location of the sign, why do you need an 13 extra foot? I mean, how do explain that? 14 MR. BARBAS: Because as you come 15 from Haggerty going west, there is a fence 16 there from the property next to it. There 17 are County or State, I don't know what they 18 are, traffic signs in the road there. There 19 is a utility pole in the road there. And 20 then there are bushes and trees on the 21 adjacent property. 22 And what we tried to do is get it high 23 enough that it is visible. We are not trying 24 to make it higher for any other reason. 25 Frankly, I like low signs, I think they
73 1 look more, whatever the right word is, nicer. 2 But in this case, we are concerned that, you 3 know, you would be able to see the sign. And 4 it's difficult to see the sign where it is 5 lower. 6 And I went out there when the mock up 7 was out there, and confirmed that, you know, 8 I'm glad we asked for it. 9 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Thank you, 10 sir. Any other questions? 11 Member Sanghvi. 12 MR. SANGHVI: I have a question. 13 First, I have been living in that area for 36 14 years. And I know Nine Mile Road since the 15 day it was a dirt road. It has never been a 16 45-mile road and safety (inaudible). It's a 17 beautiful fiction, but it has nothing to do 18 with reality. 19 MR. BARBAS: I can tell you that 20 a number of people have said they had to slow 21 down -- 22 MR. SANGHVI: It is a 45 mile 23 road, you are writing here. It has never 24 been. It is a 35 mile road. 25 MR. BARBAS: Did we say -- I'm
74 1 sorry? 2 MR. SANGHVI: It has always been 3 a 35 mile road, even when it was a dirt road. 4 MR. BARBAS: I'm just telling 5 you -- 6 MR. SANGHVI: I know you are 7 telling me -- 8 MR. BARBAS: If I put 45 -- 9 MR. SANGHVI: You have got it in 10 two places 45 miles. Not in one. 11 MR. BARBAS: I apologize for him 12 putting 45 down . 13 MR. SANGHVI: The sign is right 14 there in front of your property. 15 MR. BARBAS: I will plead the 16 fifth for him on that. Whether it is 35 or 17 it is 45, I can tell you -- 18 MR. SANGHVI: Number two, have 19 you looked at the sign recently (inaudible) 20 on your property? Have you looked at it 21 lately? You can't even read the name. 22 MR. BARBAS: We are replacing all 23 of the signage in the property. 24 MR. SANGHVI: People can't find 25 it because they can't read the sign.
75 1 MR. BARBAS: We are replacing 2 just about every single sign in the 3 community. All the signs -- you are 4 absolutely correct. We need variances on 5 them. 6 MR. SANGHVI: You can't read it. 7 I know where it is. I go by there, I have 8 been going there for very many, many years. 9 Like anybody else, if you can't read the name 10 of the street or the sign there, how are they 11 going to find it. I think that's what you 12 need is a bigger sign there, rather than 13 moving -- you already bring the masonry wall 14 there for the sign, haven't you? 15 MR. BARBAS: I'm sorry? 16 MR. SANGHVI: You already bring 17 the wall there to put the new sign in? 18 MR. BARBAS: No. There is a mock 19 up up there. 20 MR. SANGHVI: I know what is 21 there. I know what I have seen. 22 MR. BARBAS: The only thing we 23 did is since we changed the name, we put a 24 very temporary -- what did they make that out 25 of canvas or whatever, sign --
76 1 MR. SANGHVI: I know what you are 2 putting -- 3 MR. BARBAS: That's going. 4 MR. SANGHVI: You haven't put the 5 masonry base -- 6 MR. BARBAS: No. 7 MR. SANGHVI: Are you sure? 8 MR. BARBAS: Yes. I would have 9 gotten a bill. 10 MR. SANGHVI: Maybe you want to 11 go look at the island again. It is already 12 there. 13 MR. BARBAS: I was going by at 14 45 miles an hour. 15 MR. SANGHVI: I'm glad nobody has 16 caught you because that is a speed trap in 17 Novi. You know that. Thank you. 18 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Member Skelcy. 19 MS. SKELCY: I had a question 20 about what you're going to put underneath the 21 sign. Because if you put flowers, in the 22 winter, we'll see the sticks. But if you use 23 some type of evergreen bush, I mean, what is 24 your plan to plant there? 25 MR. ROBERTS: Part of it was
77 1 going to be ground cover and evergreen ground 2 cover and then flowers on the outside of the 3 that. Evergreen ground cover then you won't 4 see the -- 5 MS. SKELCY: There will be an 6 evergreen ground cover, then we won't see the 7 poles? 8 MR. ROBERTS: No, because that 9 evergreen ground cover is tall enough to 10 cover up the poles, and then there is flowers 11 in front of it. So there is something there 12 in the winter, even from an esthetic 13 standpoint of the plantings. What we 14 normally find, this island is extremely 15 narrow compared to most islands. It's 16 difficult to get things to grow. There is 17 salt damage, there is, you know, salt spray 18 and things like. So on the outside of this 19 wall, we have got day lillies, which will 20 grow in almost any condition. The variety we 21 use will bloom all summer long. 22 On top of the planter, we wanted to add 23 a little bit of color, which would be annuals 24 draping over, potato vines, so that it's 25 pretty and lush. And then towards the
78 1 center, we've got perennial evergreen ground 2 cover, either a myrtle or an ivy, that's just 3 going to cover that up. 4 Essentially, it is basically putting a 5 skirt on it. But we are raising all this, so 6 that the soil can be good, the plants will 7 thrive, and, you know, we can get water 8 conditions to work better on it. 9 MS. SKELCY: Thank you. 10 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Member Gedeon. 11 MR. GEDEON: To the Chair, I 12 apologize, if I missed this part of the case, 13 but was the audience granted an option to 14 the -- option to -- 15 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: I believe so. 16 MR. GEDEON: I apologize if I 17 missed that. 18 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: That's okay. 19 MR. GEDEON: In general, I don't 20 have a problem with this. The sign looks 21 like it's a nicely updated sign compared to 22 the existing sign there. And I think that 23 they are taking care to obscure the view of 24 the poles with natural landscaping. 25 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Any other --
79 1 Member Krieger. 2 MS. KRIEGER: Question to 3 Mr. Boulard, so because the sign is going to 4 be in the -- that raised curb area in the 5 middle, that's why it's in a right-of-way? 6 MR. BOULARD: No. Nine Mile Road 7 has a right-of-way in which the road is 8 constructed, the public right-of-way. 9 Typically, when there is possible future 10 expansion contemplated, areas to the -- 11 additional area on each side or one side or 12 the other will be designated as proposed 13 right-of-way. And generally, at that point, 14 we look at it and say, well, we are going to 15 set the setbacks from that since it's going 16 to be right-of-way in the future. 17 And this sign is in that area that's 18 contemplated for future use of right-of-way. 19 MR. BARBAS: If I can approach 20 and show you a survey that will show the two 21 lines, right-of-way -- 22 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Is it the 23 survey you have already given us? Because we 24 do have a copy of the survey. 25 MR. BARBAS: Yes. If you look on
80 1 that survey, it shows the right-of-way and 2 the proposed right-of-way. And it shows the 3 existing boulevard, which we are not changing 4 at all. We are not changing. We are not 5 expanding the boulevard or anything like 6 that. 7 MS. KRIEGER: You're moving the 8 sign within the boulevard. 9 MR. BARBAS: Moving the sign 10 within the boulevard, but it would be within 11 the proposed right-of-way. The boulevard is 12 already part of the proposed right-of-way. 13 MS. KRIEGER: Nothing else. 14 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Anything else? 15 Member Gerblick. 16 MR. GERBLICK: What is the 17 current height of the sign that's in place 18 right now that's being blocked as you're 19 saying? 20 MR. ROBERTS: You know what, 21 right now, I was trying to ascertain that. 22 If you look at the photograph, I believe it's 23 taller than we are proposing right now. You 24 know, right now they have got a large brick 25 column that's right at the end of the island
81 1 that could be hit. We have got lights 2 underneath it, and the sign is raised up at 3 least the same height, if not higher. But I 4 really didn't take a measurement of it. I 5 cannot tell you the exact height. 6 If you looked at the pictures, you would 7 see, just scale-wise it is taller. 8 MR. BARBAS: I think it is taller 9 than what the new sign, total height is going 10 to be. Especially because there is enough -- 11 it slopes down, so, you know, the boulevard 12 slopes down a little, so the sign is going to 13 be lower, even if it's the same height off 14 the ground. 15 MR. GERBLICK: Additionally, 16 being that it's 35 miles an hour on that 17 road, can you kind of expand or elaborate on 18 why you need the sign area to be larger than 19 the ordinance allows? 20 MR. BARBAS: It's the same 21 reason. People were not seeing the sign. 22 And we didn't think it was a great expansion. 23 You know, the difference between 24 and 24 32 feet is really three by eight versus four 25 by eight. So we are making the sign
82 1 basically a foot taller. 2 MR. GERBLICK: Is there any way 3 to reduce the area of the sign, that you 4 could limit the space used on either sides. 5 Looks like -- 6 MR. BARBAS: No. We wouldn't be 7 reducing it on the sides. If we were doing a 8 24 foot sign, it would be still be eight 9 feet, we would have to make it three feet 10 rather than four feet. And if you were going 11 to do that, then I would ask if there is some 12 way we can ask for the variance be 18 inches 13 instead of six inches on the posts, and we'd 14 they have to figure out a landscape around 15 that because we are going to get some height 16 to the sign. 17 That's really -- I mean, the reason we 18 are asking for the 32 versus the 24 is to get 19 some height into the whole mass. 20 MR. GERBLICK: Okay. 21 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Any other 22 questions or comments for the applicant? 23 Personally, just expanding on my 24 previous questions. I think you have 25 answered everything, you know, to my
83 1 satisfaction. 2 My inclination would be to grant it as 3 proposed with the conditions that you would 4 waive any compensation or claims if the 5 right-of-way -- 6 MR. BARBAS: For the cost of 7 moving the sign? 8 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Yes, if there 9 was some expansion of the road and the 10 right-of-way actually taken. And that you 11 would have to cover through all seasons the 12 posts that stick up with some kind of 13 permanent like an evergreen type vegetation. 14 But as to the other ones, I would agree 15 to. 16 Anybody else? If not, entertain a 17 motion, we can take them all together or take 18 them separately. 19 Member Ibe. 20 MR. IBE: Mr. Chair, in Case No. 21 11-039, what is now called the Heights 22 formerly called Highland Club apartments. 23 MR. BARBAS: Yes, it's the 24 Heights of Novi Apartments. 25 MR. IBE: I move that we grant
84 1 the request as petitioned here by the 2 applicant to allow the current sign that is 3 there to be moved into the proposed 4 right-of-way. And also to allow the height 5 as requested in the application for the 6 following reasons. That the features for 7 getting this property are unique, in the 8 sense that the current sign where it is 9 located, it's not visible clearly from 10 Nine Mile Road because it's covered with some 11 vegetation, and it is set back inside the 12 entrance, and though this makes it a bit 13 difficult for parties who are seeking to find 14 this particular location to see the sign. 15 And this property owner is actually a 16 new owner, I believe, they were not the 17 original owner. That the problem here is not 18 self-created. It's something that was 19 inherited by the new owner, who also is the 20 petitioner in this case. 21 Secondly, we should grant this because 22 failure to grant will unreasonably prevent or 23 limit the use of the property and will result 24 in substantial mere inconvenience, or limit 25 the applicant from using this property the
85 1 way it should be done. 2 Now, the applicant clearly has stated 3 that this is not an economic or financial 4 issue, but more of to allow parties who will 5 seek to come to this particular property to 6 find it easily. 7 Finally, the grant of relief will not 8 result in the use of structure that is 9 incompatible or interferes with adjacent or 10 surrounding properties. 11 This is a huge apartment complex 12 obviously. There are other complexes around 13 the area. And based on what we have here so 14 far, we have not seen anything that will 15 suggest that surrounding properties are going 16 to be effected simply by moving this sign up 17 front. And the applicant has agreed that the 18 granting of this variance will be subject to 19 the following two conditions. One, the 20 applicant will waive cost compensation in the 21 future, assuming that the Nine Mile Road is 22 expanded. And secondly, that the applicant 23 will also be in the total cost of moving 24 the -- 25 MR. BARBAS: The sign.
86 1 MR. IBE: Moving the sign back to 2 the line where it should be. 3 Based on this, I ask that the 4 applicant's request should be granted. 5 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Before we get 6 a second, Member Skelcy. 7 MS. SKELCY: I wanted to amend 8 the motion to include the fact that the posts 9 of the sign would be covered through all 10 seasons. 11 MR. IBE: I agree to that. 12 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Before we 13 second, did we cover all aspects of the 14 petition? 15 MS. KUDLA: I wanted to clarify 16 whether it's all four variances that are 17 being granted as requested? 18 MR. IBE: Yes. 19 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Now that we 20 got that. Any other comments before we get a 21 second? Any seconds now? 22 MS. KRIEGER: Second. 23 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Seeing a 24 motion and a second, any further discussion 25 on this particular motion?
87 1 Seeing none, Ms. Pawlowski, will you 2 will please call the roll. 3 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Gedeon? 4 MR. GEDEON: Yes. 5 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Gerblick? 6 MR. GERBLICK: No. 7 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Chairman Ghannam? 8 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Yes. 9 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Ibe? 10 MR. IBE: Yes. 11 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Krieger? 12 MS. KRIEGER: Yes. 13 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Sanghvi? 14 MR. SANGHVI: No. 15 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Skelcy? 16 MS. SKELCY: Yes. 17 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Motion passes 18 five to two. 19 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Thank you, 20 sir. 21 MR. BARBAS: Thank you. My 22 father also ask that I add at the end that 23 Mr. Roberts has done a number of projects, 24 when we have acquired other developments. 25 All of them have won awards for the
88 1 landscaping, so he wants this to get thrown 2 in for another nomination. 3 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: 4 Congratulations. 5 MR. ROBERTS: We appreciate you 6 all. 7 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Thank you. 8 Next on the agenda is Item No. 7. Case No. 9 11-040. Diamond Jim Bradys. 10 Are you both going to be speaking? 11 Please both raise your right hands and be 12 sworn. 13 MS. SKELCY: Do you swear or 14 affirm to tell the truth? 15 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Will you state 16 your name and addresses, please. 17 MS. BRADY: Mary Brady, 2775 18 Shagbark Lane. 19 MR. BONISLAWSKI: Roman 20 Bonislawski, 275 East Frank Street, 21 Birmingham, Michigan. 22 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Please 23 proceed. 24 MR. BONISLAWSKI: We originally 25 submitted and are appearing in front of you
89 1 for two variances. 2 One is a signage variance for the 3 addition of a third sign. And the second is 4 for the extended use of an outdoor cafe area. 5 Having been sworn, I will say that it's 6 (inaudible) we were hoping to convince the 7 landlord to support our request for the third 8 sign of the property. And as unique as the 9 condition is, and as much as the three-sided 10 building, and it goes three different 11 directions, requires that third sign for 12 visibility. He refuses to support us on that 13 motion. 14 So in fact, I will be speaking you 15 specifically with regard to the extended use 16 of the outdoor patio. 17 We are dealing with Diamond Jim Bradys. 18 Mary Brady is here with us this evening. 19 Having been a restaurant here in the city 20 successfully for 20 years, they were subject 21 to a unique circumstance, and that was having 22 to be relocated within the center, due to the 23 center's reconfiguration based on plans that 24 the landlord is pursuing. 25 We were presented with a great
90 1 opportunity being relocated within the same 2 property, and to what we believe is a better 3 location because as long time residents of 4 Novi, you would know where Diamond Jim Bradys 5 was previously recoated. And now we have a 6 much better orientation. Thought we are 7 still complaining about visibility with 8 regard to this signage, but that's a separate 9 issue that we are not discussing tonight. 10 If your remember Diamond Jim Bradys, it 11 was a 110 seat restaurant with a 20 seat 12 cafe. The opportunity that presented itself 13 was to take over a space from a food tenancy 14 that was moving out that actually had a 15 rather substantial kitchen facility 16 associated with it, as such, the opportunity 17 for Mary to take over the space, making 18 really very minor modifications to the very 19 expensive infrastructure was a terrific 20 opportunity. 21 Of course, it came with a downside that 22 this facility only has 60 seats on the 23 interior, and with every opportunity, with 24 every problem that we find an opportunity, 25 the landlord had previously renovated this
91 1 end of the center, and actually built in 2 architecture that defined the space on the 3 exterior of the shell of the building, that 4 presents itself as the perfect opportunity 5 for an outdoor cafe. 6 If you have had opportunity to see what 7 Mary has had the opportunity to do with the 8 restaurant itself, you would never know that 9 it was a Baja Fresh before. And we are 10 proposing to treat the outdoor cafe component 11 as tastefully, with the added benefit of 12 utilizing its configuration in such a way 13 that we are able to use isinglass panels that 14 would surround this specific outdoor cafe 15 area, which includes the opportunity for 24 16 seats, with the extended use exterior 17 heaters, in a way that we can minimize the 18 amount of difficulty that this owner wanting 19 to stay in Novi would be presented with 20 maintains the same level of business, same 21 quality of food, maintaining the staff and 22 dealing with the reduced seating capacity. 23 As such, this was not a self-created 24 condition. In fact, we have been subject to 25 numerous levels of having things effect us
92 1 with regard to attempting to maintain a 2 profitable and viable business here. 3 That we are complying with all the other 4 components of the zoning ordinance, with 5 regard to setback requirements, height, 6 materials. 7 We have convinced the landlord to 8 approve us on supporting our proposed use of 9 this facility for an extended period. 10 We believe that it actually enhances 11 that entire area on a year-round basis. And 12 it's really the minimum that we could 13 possibly ask for in terms of not pushing our 14 luck or going outside of the boundaries of 15 space that's clearly defined by the 16 architecture that was built by the landlord 17 there. So we request that you support our 18 request. 19 And Mary is here to speak with any 20 specific items from the business standpoint, 21 if you so desire. 22 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Thank you, 23 sir. 24 Is there anybody in the public who would 25 like to make a comment on this specific case?
93 1 Seeing none, I will close the public 2 remarks section and ask our secretary to read 3 any correspondence. 4 MS. SKELCY: There were 146 5 notices mailed, 38 were returned. There is 6 one objection and one approval. 7 Now, the objection pertains to the third 8 sign -- well, no, it pertains to both. It's 9 from James Claire, who is the property 10 manager of -- general manager of the Novi 11 Town Center. He states, "Novi Town Center 12 management approves the request for extended 13 time period relating to the operation of the 14 outdoor seating area". He goes onto comment 15 about the sign, but that's not before the 16 Board at this time, so I will not read it. 17 Also the Violet Tuck, T-u-c-k, of Novi 18 Auto Parts located at 43131 Grand River in 19 Novi, approves. She states, "I have no 20 problem with either the sign variance or the 21 outdoor seating. Good luck. The business 22 people in Novi need all the help they can 23 get". 24 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Any comments 25 or questions by the City?
94 1 MR. BOULARD: Just a comment or 2 question. Does -- the zoning ordinance is 3 specific. It talks about the time period for 4 outdoor seating. Where there is a unique 5 situation, in this case, there is going to be 6 these panels that provide some protection as 7 well as outdoor heaters that have already 8 been installed in the area, in the outdoor 9 seating area to extend that time of season. 10 I think that that's -- this is exactly the 11 venue for that. And we have got something 12 that out of the ordinary. This is the 13 appropriate and we support that. 14 I did have one request, whatever the 15 Board decides to do, Roman, would you be so 16 kind as to sign the application before you 17 leave? 18 MR. BONISLAWSKI: Sure. 19 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: On the sign 20 request, he's saying that the landlord did 21 not approve that, but does he need the 22 specific approval for that, for the third 23 sign? 24 MS. KUDLA: Yes. 25 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: So we have the
95 1 one request for the outdoor seating? 2 MS. KUDLA: Yes. 3 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: I got it. 4 Any other questions comments by the 5 City? 6 Seeing none, I will open it up to the 7 Board for discussion. 8 Member Sanghvi. 9 MR. SANGHVI: Question for 10 Mr. Boulard. When I was going through these 11 papers, I didn't see any signature from the 12 applicant nor any approval from the Town 13 Center authority. 14 MR. BOULARD: I mentioned the 15 applicant's signature. 16 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Hold on. 17 MR. BOULARD: I mentioned the 18 applicant's signature. The manager, 19 Mr. Claire came in and signed the application 20 for the extension of the time period for the 21 property, not for the sign. So we have that 22 in place on the original. 23 MR. SANGHVI: I don't see it on 24 the application. 25 MR. BOULARD: It is not there.
96 1 You are correct, sir. 2 MR. SANGHVI: I have no problems 3 with the request the applicant is making, and 4 (inaudible). Good luck to them. I have no 5 problem. Thank you. 6 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Member Skelcy. 7 MS. SKELCY: Would the outdoor 8 cafe area run year-round? 9 MR. BONISLAWSKI: There is 10 periods where physically the isinglass and 11 the heaters, you know, there are days in 12 February, if you have a week of 20 below 13 temperatures, you're not going to be able to 14 use that. The whole purpose of it is to 15 attempt to extend the useable period by 16 another 50 to 100 days. So they'll still be 17 a month's worth of the year that you can't 18 use it, simply because the weather will not 19 permit it. 20 MS. SKELCY: But are you asking 21 for year-round use? 22 MR. BONISLAWSKI: Yes, we are. 23 Because you can't tell when -- we have had 24 wonderful days in December where we have 25 other restaurants where we open up full
97 1 operable walls because the weather permits 2 it. 3 MS. SKELCY: I just wanted to 4 understand what time period you wanted. 5 Thank you. 6 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Member Gedeon. 7 MR. GEDEON: Just to clarify. 8 The outdoor cafe seating is separate from the 9 patio seating, is that correct? 10 MR. BONISLAWSKI: That's correct. 11 We have two outdoor cafe components around 12 the exterior of the building. 13 We are really referring to the end of 14 the building facing Novi Road that is 15 surrounded by the big architectural bulkhead 16 that was built by the landlord himself. 17 That's the area that's going under the fabric 18 canopy, and that's the area that's being 19 proposed to be enclosed by the isinglass 20 panels. 21 The other portion of outdoor patio it 22 doesn't have any other means of protection 23 being proposed around it. It's really truly 24 a seasonal component. 25 MR. GEDEON: Thank you.
98 1 MR. BONISLAWSKI: I should 2 probably amend that, just from the standpoint 3 if there was a wonderful day in December 4 again, you have 60 degrees, and we have 5 stacking chairs in the back storage room, 6 it's always something that I would hate to 7 prevent Mary from being able to capitalize on 8 the potential of 84 seats plus out there when 9 she's coming from a facility that had a 130 10 seats the best times of operation. 11 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Any other 12 questions or comments by the Board? 13 Seeing none, anybody want to try a 14 motion? Member Skelcy. 15 MS. SKELCY: In the Case of 16 11-040, Diamond Jim Bradys, located at 43271 17 Crescent Boulevard in Novi, I move that we 18 grant the variance request asking for a 19 waiver of the ordinance which limits use of 20 the outdoor seating dining to a period of 21 April 15th to November 30th of each year. 22 And ask that we move -- and move that we 23 permit them to have year-round usage of the 24 outdoor seating dining area, cafe, on a 25 year-round basis.
99 1 That the request is based on 2 circumstances or features that are 3 exceptional and unique to the property, with 4 the way that it's designed and the size of 5 the interior of the building, and do not 6 result from conditions that exist generally 7 in the City or that are self-created. 8 The failure to grant relief will 9 unreasonably prevent or limit the use of this 10 property and will result in substantially 11 more than mere inconvenience or inability to 12 attain a higher economic or financial return. 13 Finally, the grant of relief will not 14 result in a use of structure that is 15 incompatible with or unreasonably interferes 16 with adjacent or surrounding properties, 17 especially since all the surrounding 18 properties are business properties and then 19 the busy Novi Road. 20 And it will result in substantial 21 justice being done to both the applicant and 22 adjacent or surrounding properties and is not 23 inconsistent with the spirit of the 24 ordinance. 25 MR. IBE: Second.
100 1 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Seeing a 2 motion and a second, any further discussion? 3 Member Gerblick. 4 MR. GERBLICK: I just want to 5 make sure that we are limiting it to one area 6 which will have the glass panels and the 7 heaters and not both outdoor seating areas? 8 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: That is the 9 intent of the motion, right? 10 MS. SKELCY: Yes, because that's 11 what was requested in the application. 12 MR. GERBLICK: Okay. 13 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Seeing no 14 further discussion, Ms. Pawlowski, will you 15 please call the roll. 16 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Gedeon? 17 MR. GEDEON: Yes. 18 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Gerblick? 19 MR. GERBLICK: Yes. 20 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Chairman Ghannam? 21 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Yes. 22 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Ibe? 23 MR. IBE: Yes. 24 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Krieger? 25 MS. KRIEGER: Yes.
101 1 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Sanghvi? 2 MR. SANGHVI: Yes. 3 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Member Skelcy? 4 MS. SKELCY: Yes. 5 MS. PAWLOWSKI: Motion passes 6 seven to zero. 7 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: 8 Congratulations, sir, and ma'am. 9 MS. BRADY: Thank you. We are 10 open, if anybody wants to come in. 11 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Next on the 12 agenda is other matters. It's one, approval 13 of the 2012 Zoning Board of Appeals calendar. 14 We have all been given a calendar. 15 Any questions or comments about the 16 suggested calendar? 17 Anything from the City? Any other 18 further comments, suggestions? 19 Anybody else have any -- if not, I will 20 entertain a motion to approve the proposed 21 ZBA calendar dates for 2010. 22 MR. IBE: So moved. 23 MR. SANGHVI: Second. 24 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Any further 25 discussion? Seeing none, all in favor say
102 1 aye. 2 THE BOARD: Aye. 3 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Any opposed? 4 Seeing none, the 2012 calendar dates are 5 approved as proposed. 6 Any other matters before we close? I 7 don't think there is. 8 Seeing zone, I will entertain a motion 9 to adjourn. 10 MR. SANGHVI: I just wanted to 11 congratulate our counsel. 12 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Our counsel 13 has been married, congratulations Ms. Kudla. 14 Any motion to adjourn? 15 MR. SANGHVI: So moved. 16 MR. GERBLICK: Second. 17 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: All in favor 18 say aye. 19 THE BOARD: Aye. 20 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Any opposed? 21 Seeing none, we are adjourned. Thank you. 22 (The meeting was adjourned at 8:45 p.m.) 23 ** ** ** 24 25
103 1 STATE OF MICHIGAN ) 2 ) ss. 3 COUNTY OF OAKLAND ) 4 I, Jennifer L. Wall, Notary Public within and for 5 the County of Oakland, State of Michigan, do hereby certify 6 that the hearing was taken before me in the above entitled 7 matter was by me duly sworn at the aforementioned time and 8 place; that the proceedings were stenographically recorded. 9 I further certify that I am not connected by blood 10 or marriage with any of the parties or their attorneys, and 11 that I am not an employee of either of them, nor financially 12 interested in the action. 13 IN WITNESS THEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand at 14 the City of Walled Lake, County of Oakland, State of 15 Michigan. 16 17 18 ________________ _________________________ Date Jennifer L. Wall CSR-4183 19 Oakland County, Michigan My Commission Expires 11/12/15 20 21 22 23 24 25
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