|
View Agenda for this meeting
REGULAR MEETING - ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS Proceedings had and Testimony taken in the matters of the ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS, at City of Novi,45175 West Ten Mile Road, Novi, Michigan, on Tuesday, January 11, 2011. BOARD MEMBERS David Ghannam, Chairman ALSO PRESENT: Thomas R. Schultz, City Attorney REPORTED BY: Sherri L. Ruff, Certified Shorthand
2 Tuesday, January 11, 2011 3 7:00 p.m. 4 - - - 5 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Good 6 evening, everyone. I'm going to call 7 the January 11th Zoning Board of 8 Appeals meeting to order. 9 First off, we'll do the 10 pledge of Allegiance. Member Gedeon, 11 start us off, please. 12 (The Pledge of Allegiance was 13 recited.) 14 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Thank you. 15 And as everybody may know, our former 16 chairman is not present today; he's 17 been nominated to city council. So, as 18 vice chair, I have been elected to be 19 chairman tonight. 20 We have rules, but they 21 should be in the back, and if you can 22 please familiarize yourself with them 23 if you haven't seen them before. 24 Make sure all pagers and cell 4 2 When cases are called, the 3 applicants or their representatives 4 will be asked to come forward and state 5 their names and be sworn by our 6 secretary. Generally, you will be 7 allowed five minutes to address the 8 board to present your case. We can 9 grant extensions, as it may be 10 necessary. 11 There will be a section for 12 public remarks, if anyone from the 13 public wants to make a comment on a 14 specific case, certainly, they can. 15 Other than that, Ms. Martin, 16 can you please call the roll. 17 MS. MARTIN: Member Krieger? 18 MEMBER KRIEGER: Present. 19 MS. MARTIN: Member Ibe? 20 MEMBER IBE: Present. 21 MS. MARTIN: Chairman 22 Ghannam? 23 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Here. 24 MS. MARTIN: Member Gedeon? 5 2 MS. MARTIN: At this time, 3 Member Skelcy, we understand, will be 4 late. And Member Sanghvi and 5 Member Cassis will not be here tonight. 6 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Okay. 7 Next is the approval of the agenda. 8 Are there any other additions or 9 modifications to the agenda that we 10 should be aware of? 11 MS. MARTIN: Yes. The first 12 case for Fox Run has been withdrawn; we 13 do have that in writing in the file. 14 The third case, which is for 15 the Weiss Project, I understand is 16 going to ask to be tabled. They 17 will -- that will go through you. 18 And then the last case for 19 the Suithouse has requested to be 20 tabled until the February 8, 2011, ZBA 21 meeting. 22 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: They have 23 requested that in writing? 24 MS. MARTIN: Yes. 6 2 other corrections or modifications? 3 MS. MARTIN: No. 4 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: If there 5 are no others, I will entertain a 6 motion to approve the agenda as 7 amended. 8 MEMBER KRIEGER: So move. 9 MEMBER IBE: Second. 10 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: All those 11 in favor, say aye. 12 THE BOARD: Aye. 13 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Any 14 opposed? Seeing none, the agenda is 15 approved. 16 Now, the next item on the 17 agenda is the approval of the minutes 18 from the December 14th, 2010 meeting. 19 Are there any corrections or 20 modifications or amendments anybody 21 would like to make? Anything from the 22 members? Nothing from the city? So I 23 will entertain a motion to approve the 24 minutes for December 14th, 2010. 7 2 MEMBER IBE: Second. 3 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: All in 4 favor, say aye. 5 THE BOARD: Aye. 6 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Any 7 opposed? Seeing none, they are 8 approved. 9 Before I get to the public 10 remarks section about items that are 11 not on -- anything that's not on the 12 agenda. As the audience can see, we do 13 have four members here. We expect one 14 more to come any moment. But, by rule, 15 any petition to be approved must have 16 at least four of the five members -- 17 currently, four of the four. If 18 anybody would like at this time to have 19 their petition tabled to any other 20 meeting, you can do so at that time. 21 But I just want to let you know that 22 you do need four members to approve any 23 petition. 24 Is there anybody in the 8 2 on any item that is not on the agenda 3 at this moment? Seeing none, I will 4 close the public remark section and 5 move to the -- move to item number two, 6 since the first one has been withdrawn. 7 Case No. 10-057, for 25300 8 Constitution, Main Street Village. The 9 petitioner is requesting an extension 10 to variance ZBA09-038 to allow the 11 continued placement of the existing 12 real estate sign located south of 13 Potomac Drive in Main Street Village. 14 The property is zoned TC-1 and is 15 located south of Grand River and east 16 of Novi Road. 17 Will the petitioner please 18 approach? The petitioner does not seem 19 to be here. 20 We'll go ahead -- do we need 21 a formal motion to adjourn? 22 MR. SCHULTZ: Mr. Chair, you 23 can pass it for now. 24 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Okay. 9 2 moment, and we will come back to it in 3 the end. 4 Next item on the agenda is 5 Case No. 10-062, Weiss. The petitioner 6 is requesting variances to allow the 7 land uses allowed currently under 8 Section 1401 of the City of Novi zoning 9 ordinance for the B-2 zoning for 10 portions of existing parcels 11 22-26-101-019 and 22-26-101-021 zoned 12 I-1 and OS-1 respectively with frontage 13 on Ten Mile Road. 14 The petitioner is present. 15 MR. QUINN: Yes, Matthew 16 Quinn, appearing on behalf of the Weiss 17 organization. We are asking the matter 18 to be tabled due to your reduced 19 numbers to your February meeting. 20 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Okay. Any 21 comments from the city or the members? 22 MR. BOULARD: I just want to 23 mention, there is a lot of information 24 in the packet the petitioner has 10 2 provide supplemental information and 3 responses and so on for that, if the 4 board is so inclined, if that will be 5 helpful in making your decision. 6 One thing that would be 7 helpful is, if that is your desire, I 8 suggest possibly even tabling until -- 9 for 60 days, to allow time to get 10 that information back to you and get it 11 out in your packets in a timely 12 manner. 13 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: When is 14 the March meeting? 15 MS. MARTIN: March 8th. 16 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Sir, do 17 you have a problem being adjourned to 18 March 8, 2011? 19 MR. QUINN: That's before St. 20 Patrick's Day, so that's okay. 21 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Okay. Any 22 further discussion by the board or the 23 members? Okay, I will entertain a 24 motion to table this item number three 11 2 MEMBER KRIEGER: I move to 3 table Case 10-062 to our March 8, 2011 4 meeting. 5 MEMBER IBE: Second. 6 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Any 7 further discussion? I just have one 8 comment. If the city could provide the 9 board with any responses it may have to 10 the materials submitted by the 11 applicant, anything that you think is 12 relevant for us to consider. It is a 13 thick packet of material, and I, 14 myself, want to know if the city has 15 any response or any particular comments 16 or other, you know, material that we 17 need to see before we make a final 18 decision (inaudible). 19 Other than that, Ms. Martin, 20 can you please call the roll. 21 MS. MARTIN: Member Krieger? 22 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes. 23 MS. MARTIN: Member Ibe? 24 MEMBER IBE: Yes. 12 2 Ghannam? 3 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Yes. 4 MS. MARTIN: Member Gedeon? 5 MEMBER GEDEON: Yes. 6 MS. MARTIN: Motion passes, 7 four to zero. 8 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Next on 9 the agenda is item number four, Case 10 No. 10-064, 44050 Twelve Mile Road. 11 Is the applicant here? We'll 12 go ahead and pass that at this time. 13 We understand it may be weather issues. 14 Did we get notice that they were not 15 showing up? 16 MS. MARTIN: No, they called 17 and asked if it was canceled tonight, 18 and I said it was not, so they may be 19 on their way. 20 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Okay. So 21 we'll pass it for the moment. 22 Next on the agenda is Case 23 No. 10-065, 41050 Bridge Street. Is 24 the applicant here for this item? 13 2 applicant. 3 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Same 4 applicant. Okay, so we'll pass this, 5 also. 6 Next is item number six, Case 7 No. 10-066 Wal-Mart. And I won't read 8 the full section, but is the applicant 9 here for Wal-Mart? Can you please step 10 forward, sir. Can you please state 11 your name and address for the record. 12 MR. MATKO: Yes, Robert 13 Matko, CESO, 8164 Executive Court 14 Drive, and that's in Lansing, Michigan. 15 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Okay. Are 16 you an attorney? 17 MR. MATKO: No, I'm not. 18 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Okay, then 19 raise your right hand and be sworn, 20 sir. 21 MEMBER IBE: Sir, in Case No. 22 10-066 Wal-Mart, Novi Town Center, do 23 you swear or affirm to tell the truth? 24 MR. MATKO: Yes. 14 2 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Go ahead 3 and present your case, sir. 4 MR. MATKO: Yes, sir. Thank 5 you, Chairman, members of the board. 6 Again, my name is Robert Matko. I work 7 for CESO. I'm the civil engineer 8 representing Wal-Mart this evening. 9 I do also have with me the 10 architect for Wal-Mart, Jackie Kokavski 11 (ph), who also will be able to address 12 any questions that you may have. 13 As everyone knows, the site 14 for the Wal-Mart development is in the 15 northwest quadrant of the Eleven Mile 16 and Town Center intersection. And the 17 Wal-Mart development will be replacing 18 the current Mervyn's and Town Center 8 19 Movie Theatre and some additional 20 shops. 21 We are here before you this 22 evening to request a few variances. 23 And, if it pleases the board, I will go 24 through each of the variances and 15 2 if that's acceptable. 3 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Yeah, it's 4 up to you, sir, however you want to 5 present. 6 MR. MATKO: I will go over 7 the first variance here that we are 8 looking at. And the variance we have 9 is actually -- I'm sorry, the request 10 deals with the garden center that is 11 being pushed into the front yard 12 setback. 13 This slide here, you may not 14 be able to completely see it, but we 15 are talking about this area right here 16 in the southwest quadrant of the 17 building. That is the garden center 18 area that extends into what staff had 19 shown was the front yard setback. What 20 they did is drew a line from this 21 building wall straight down and 22 indicated this area here was considered 23 in the front yard setback. 24 What we are looking at here 16 2 you drew a line down straight from the 3 vestibule entryways, this garden center 4 area actually aligns with both the 5 grocery and with the merchandise area. 6 So, really, it creates kind of a 7 pop-out, if you will, that matches the 8 other front vestibule areas. 9 So, again, if you drew a line 10 from the vestibule straight down, that 11 actually would align. So, I guess it's 12 a matter of where you really look at 13 the front yard setback beginning, 14 whether it's from this building wall or 15 from the front vestibule areas. Again, 16 it's an aesthetic feature; it kind of 17 matches the other two vestibule areas. 18 And, again, that is one of the 19 variances we are requesting of you this 20 evening. 21 You can also see here from 22 the building elevations, this one right 23 here shows the area that we are talking 24 about. And, again, it pretty closely 17 2 You can see the other entryways up in 3 this area. So, again, it's supposed to 4 kind of call attention to what would be 5 considered the garden center area. 6 The next variance request is 7 actually the variance request for 8 parking. And, as you can see, we are 9 required to have a 20-foot yard parking 10 setback and a 20-foot interior side 11 yard setback and a 20-foot exterior 12 yard setback. 13 Due to the shape of the 14 parcel and its inclusion in the Novi 15 Town Center, we actually are having 16 shared parking with the buildings to 17 the north and also to the south. So, 18 in essence, our property lines and our 19 parking are going to be parked between 20 all the different shopping centers, our 21 use is, and, again, it will be shared 22 parking. 23 So, the setback, as I said, 24 it's going to be a lot of shared 18 2 basically, it's going to act as a 3 shopping center, if you will. 4 The eastern and southern 5 loading zones, again, we are requesting 6 a variance this evening. We do have a 7 hardship with the property abutting 8 both Town Center Drive to the east and 9 Eleven Mile Road to the south. And we 10 are requesting a variance for both of 11 the truck docks and also the southern 12 loading zone right here. 13 We did work with the traffic 14 consultant, and we were able to change 15 the southern drive to one way in the 16 eastbound direction. And that will not 17 only eliminate sight distance problems, 18 but also allowed us to create a south 19 loading zone here to have trucks that 20 would deliver for the bulk material 21 area, to be able to pull off outside of 22 the travel way. And, again, that 23 travel lane is 18 feet in width, and 24 the parking width is approximately 10 19 2 The rear truck drives will be 3 screened, and they actually are wells, 4 so they go down in. And, again, they 5 will be screened properly. In 6 addition, we do have a berm all along 7 the east side or rear of the building. 8 Our next variance we are 9 requesting is related to the trash 10 compactor and bale and pallet storage 11 areas, and, again, in the east yard or 12 side yard setback. And, again, due to 13 the configuration of the parcel and 14 location of Town Center Drive and 15 Eleven Mile Road, even though this is 16 the rear of our building, it is 17 considered a side yard. 18 We do have again trash 19 compactors, which will be screened, a 20 bale and pallet storage area, which we 21 have worked with city staff. We 22 originally had the area shown up 23 against the area out in this area, and 24 it was an open, if you will, a 20 2 that would be facing the building. 3 What we did now was we actually 4 attached it to the building, and it 5 will have a roof on it. So, again, we 6 are looking that that will be well 7 screened and the brick material will 8 match the building. The trash 9 compactor area, again, will be 10 screened. 11 This kind of gives you an 12 elevation view of what the pallet 13 storage area would look like, along 14 with some of the screening. Hopefully, 15 you can see this. But, again, it is a 16 brick wall on each side, with the metal 17 fencing and pilasters along the front. 18 And, again, this will have a roof. 19 The bottom, you can kind of 20 see some of the screening as if you are 21 looking at the bale and pallet storage 22 area from Town Center Drive. 23 Continuing on, we do have a 24 variance request for property line 21 2 you look at how the development is 3 included in the Town Center with the 4 property line, we do and will have some 5 light spillover. It's kind of hard to 6 keep the light away from the property 7 line as established. 8 This will be a 24-hour 9 operation, so the light levels, you 10 know, will spill over some of the 11 property lines. Again, it's very 12 important to Wal-Mart, and I can speak 13 for the shopping center, to have 14 well-lit areas. And trying to decrease 15 the lighting in those areas would not 16 be beneficial for Wal-Mart or for the 17 shopping center. 18 This just shows our site 19 layout plan as it exists today. And we 20 were showing some easements on this 21 drawing as well. This kind of gives 22 you the idea of the overall layout of 23 the site and the adjacent developments 24 to the north and south. 22 2 variance request. And, again, I thank 3 you for your time, and I can answer any 4 questions you may have. Again, I also 5 have the architect with me this 6 evening. Thank you. 7 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Thank 8 you, sir. Is there anybody in the 9 audience who wishes to address the 10 board regarding this particular current 11 case, please step forward. Seeing 12 none, I will close the public remarks 13 section on this case. 14 The secretary can read into 15 the record regarding notices and so 16 forth. 17 MEMBER IBE: Thank you, 18 Mr. Chair. In Case No. 10-066, 43 19 notices were mailed, one approval with 20 concerns, five mail returned. 21 The approval with concern is 22 from JFK Investment Company, LLC, dated 23 January 11, 2011. 24 And it reads: "Dear Zoning 23 2 Company, LLC, is the owner and operator 3 of the Lake Pointe Office Center 4 located at 26200 Town Center Drive. 5 "JFK Investment Company, LLC, 6 is not opposed to the projects 7 pertaining to the above-referenced case 8 numbers, but does have concerns about 9 the variance requests for no setback on 10 the east side of each of the projects. 11 Currently, Town Center Drive acts as a 12 gateway for our building, creating a 13 positive initial impression for our 14 tenants and their employees and 15 customers. If the setback requirements 16 are waived, we have concerns that Town 17 Center Drive will begin to look like a 18 cluttered back alley, not the 19 well-maintained, finely landscaped, 20 welcoming boulevard that it is. It 21 will be our preference that the setback 22 requirements be enforced, but if the 23 board decides otherwise, we would 24 insist that an adequate and attractive 24 2 condition to granting the variances. 3 "Thank you for your 4 consideration. Very truly yours, 5 Thomas H. Kosik, manager." 6 That's it, Mr. Chair. 7 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Thank you. 8 Any comments from the city? 9 MR. BOULARD: A couple 10 things. One, I would be happy to 11 answer any questions you have with 12 regard to the buffering and so on, on 13 that east side; it will be helpful. 14 Another thing that I would 15 like to point out is in the staff 16 report, staff indicated support for 17 most of the variances requested, based 18 on the fact that a lot of these 19 property lines are kind of running down 20 the little parking lot, so to speak. 21 And the fact that the property really 22 is -- has faces on two roads, and there 23 is not -- three roads. In fact, there 24 is not a good spot to put a lot of 25 2 good job covering those up. 3 With regard to the extension 4 of the garden center projecting beyond 5 that corner of the building, last night 6 at city council, five of the council 7 members indicated they had -- didn't 8 have a concern with that. And when 9 they made their recommendation, that 10 was not -- holding that back was not a 11 condition of the approval. They didn't 12 seem to be -- the majority of them did 13 not seem to be concerned about that. 14 I would be happy to answer 15 any questions. 16 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Okay. Any 17 comments or questions from the board? 18 MEMBER KRIEGER: I did happen 19 to have Channel 7 News on at lunch 20 time, and they were advertising already 21 that Wal-Mart is coming to Novi. 22 In regards to the roads, the 23 concern of JFK, I do understand their 24 concern, because now their front yard 26 2 upkeep of that back area with 3 landscaping and cleanliness would be a 4 very neighborly and essential part of 5 being with the back street of Town 6 Center becoming a back road. 7 And then the east only, so 8 used to that being a two-lane road, how 9 many people are going to make the 10 mistake of going which way, that it 11 would be well-signed, which way that 12 it's only a one-way street in the 13 future. 14 And then the question would 15 be for the applicant, on the pallets, 16 that there is one that's for C-o-m-p, 17 is that compost? And, if it is, how 18 would they take care of odor control? 19 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Why don't 20 you have someone approach to answer 21 those questions, please. 22 MR. MATKO: If I could 23 clarify a few things, too. The east 24 setback that we are looking at is only 27 2 Building, what we call X.1, almost 3 directly across from it. So, again, I 4 would like to indicate it's only a 5 60-foot area. It's not the entire back 6 area for the setback behind the 7 building. 8 And related to the questions 9 on the one-way eastbound south drive, 10 it is signed extensively with one-way 11 direction signs. "Do not enter" from 12 the other end. We have coordinated 13 that, again, with the city's traffic 14 consultant. As a matter of fact, it 15 was a work in progress between them and 16 us to come up with a suitable plan. 17 Again, they backed it, and we 18 accepted it, and, again, it is signed 19 fairly heavily. 20 As it relates to the compost 21 area, a lot of that composting, it is 22 and will be picked up so that it does 23 not become a problem. Wal-Mart is 24 trying to go green these days, and they 28 2 environmentally friendly. And so it's 3 actually a very much positive thing as 4 to a negative. But they will have very 5 much periodic pick-ups of that area so 6 it does not become an issue. 7 MEMBER KRIEGER: Okay. Thank 8 you. 9 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Any other 10 questions from the members, or 11 comments? 12 While you are thinking, I 13 will just make a couple comments. Part 14 of the problem is you are taking an 15 existing building, demolishing it and 16 retrofitting it with what you need. 17 And I understand all the difficulties, 18 and that's part of the reasons why you 19 need these variances. 20 So, given the nature and 21 extent of your plans, working with the 22 city and so forth, and I think you have 23 fulfilled your obligations to try to 24 reduce the amount of variances you 29 2 I have no problem with them, and I will 3 be willing to support them. 4 Any other questions or 5 comments by the members? 6 MEMBER GEDEON: Just a 7 procedural question. Do we need to 8 have individual motions for each 9 variance requested? 10 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: We can -- 11 I mean, if there is objections to one 12 particular one, we can take them 13 separately. If you agree to all of 14 them, you can do all of them in a 15 motion. And if you see reservations 16 about one of the several that they 17 requested, we can take that separately. 18 Any other comments? 19 MEMBER IBE: I would like to 20 re-echo what the chairman has said. I 21 am in support of the request here. It 22 appears Wal-Mart is going through a 23 great extent to accommodate what is 24 required. So, I have no objections 30 2 requested by the applicant. 3 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Okay. 4 Member Gedeon, anything else? 5 MEMBER GEDEON: No, looks 6 fine to me. 7 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Okay. I 8 will entertain a motion at this time. 9 MEMBER IBE: I will take 10 this. 11 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Thank 12 you. 13 MEMBER IBE: In Case No. 14 10-066, Wal-Mart store, Novi Town 15 Center, I move that we grant all of the 16 variances as requested by the 17 applicant, for the reasons that this 18 involves a practical difficulty that 19 exists with the current location where 20 the property will be located. 21 There are unique 22 circumstances regarding the physical 23 setting of the place itself. The 24 property, it's abutting two or three 31 2 these variances in order to accommodate 3 what the applicant seeks to do here. 4 The need is not self-created, 5 and strict compliance with the 6 regulations governing the area, 7 setback, frontage, height, bulk, 8 density or other dimensional 9 requirements, will unreasonably prevent 10 the property owner from using the 11 property for a permitted purpose, and 12 will render conformity with those 13 regulations unnecessarily burdensome. 14 The requested variance is the 15 minimum variance necessary to do 16 substantial justice to the applicant as 17 well as the surrounding property 18 owners. The request for the requested 19 variance will not impact on the 20 surrounding property. In fact, I think 21 it may actually help, because it will 22 attract more customers for the other 23 businesses in the area. 24 Based on this, I will ask 32 2 granted. 3 MEMBER KRIEGER: Second. 4 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Any 5 further discussion? Seeing none, Ms. 6 Martin, will you please call the roll. 7 MS. MARTIN: Member Krieger? 8 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes. 9 MS. MARTIN: Member Ibe? 10 MEMBER IBE: Yes. 11 MS. MARTIN: Chairman 12 Ghannam? 13 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Yes. 14 MS. MARTIN: Member Gedeon? 15 MEMBER GEDEON: Yes. 16 MS. MARTIN: Motion passes, 17 four to zero. 18 MR. MATKO: Thank you, 19 Chairman, board members. 20 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: 21 Congratulations. 22 Next is Case No. 10-067, Novi 23 Town Center Building X.1. Is the 24 applicant here on that? 33 2 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Same 3 applicant. Instead of reading the full 4 petition, I will have the petitioner 5 explain it. 6 MR. QUINN: Certainly. 7 Matthew Quinn, appearing on behalf of 8 Novi Town Center Investors. They are 9 the owner of the Novi Town Center Mall. 10 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: For the 11 record, sir, you are an attorney, 12 correct? 13 MR. QUINN: Yes, I am. 14 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Okay. 15 MR. QUINN: As of the Court 16 of Appeals this morning said I was, 17 anyway. 18 And today I'm here to ask for 19 variances regarding Building X.1, which 20 is denoted in the shaded area right 21 here. X.1 will be the new connector 22 building that connects the Wal-Mart, 23 which the variances you just approved, 24 to the TJ Maxx store. This is the new 34 2 will have multiple tenants to it. 3 Once again, one of the 4 reasons that variances are necessary is 5 because the property boundary for 6 Wal-Mart is going to go right along the 7 side of the building and then jut out 8 and then follow the parking lot. So, 9 we do not have any setback area 10 available here. 11 Same with the new building to 12 TJ Maxx. Because it's a common wall, 13 there is no setback available to there. 14 As far as the Dumpster 15 location and the others in the rear, 16 again, we have a front yard in the back 17 and a front yard in the front. So 18 anything we put in -- what we think is 19 our rear yard is really a front yard, 20 and we need the variance for that. 21 So, the variances are the 22 south interior parking side yard 23 setbacks; the east exterior, which is 24 here, exterior parking yard setback; 35 2 which is in the rear; the Dumpster 3 location, which is in the rear. 4 And then the light level, 5 same as you just approved for Wal-Mart. 6 The light levels at the common boundary 7 cannot be the one-foot candle 8 limitation that the ordinance requires. 9 And in order to keep proper lighting 10 flowing from the two parking lots 11 together, that variance is necessary. 12 Once again, all of these 13 variances are necessitated by 14 retrofitting this site. And we ask for 15 your approval of these variances. And 16 if there is any questions or concerns, 17 I have the reps from WahYee Architects 18 are here, as well as Jim Clear from the 19 mall. 20 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Thank you, 21 sir. Is there anybody in the public 22 who would like to make a comment on 23 this particular case? Seeing none, I 24 would close the public remarks section 36 2 correspondence. 3 MEMBER IBE: Mr. Chair, in 4 Case No. 10-067, there were 43 notices 5 mailed, one approval with concern, and 6 five mail returned. 7 The approval with concern is 8 from JFK Investment Company, LLC, dated 9 January 11, 2011. 10 And it reads: "Dear Zoning 11 Board of Appeals: JFK Investment 12 Company, LLC, is the owner and operator 13 of the Lake Pointe Office Center 14 located at 26200 Town Center Drive. 15 "JFK Investment Company, LLC, 16 is not opposed to the projects 17 pertaining to the above-referenced case 18 numbers, but does have concerns about 19 the variance requests for no setback on 20 the east side of each of the projects. 21 Currently, Town Center Drive acts as a 22 gateway for our building, creating a 23 positive initial impression for our 24 tenants and their employees and 37 2 are waived, we have concerns that Town 3 Center Drive will begin to look like a 4 cluttered back alley, not the 5 well-maintained, finely landscaped, 6 welcoming boulevard that it is. It 7 will be our preference that the setback 8 requirements be enforced, but if the 9 board decides otherwise, we would 10 insist that an adequate and attractive 11 landscaped buffer be required as a 12 condition to granting the variances. 13 "Thank you for your 14 consideration. Very truly yours, 15 Thomas H. Kosik, manager." 16 Thank you, Mr. Chair. 17 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Thank you, 18 Mr. Secretary. Any comments or input 19 from the city? 20 MR. BOULARD: The only 21 comment I would have is to note that, 22 once again, if there are questions, I 23 would be happy to assist, if possible. 24 And that in this case, based on the 38 2 staff supports all four of these 3 variances; it's the minimum required 4 (inaudible). 5 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Okay. And 6 I will open it up to the board for 7 discussion. As I do that, I will make 8 a couple comments. I do see this as 9 the same request. It's very similar 10 as -- it's exact same circumstances, 11 retrofitting this particular area to 12 accommodate the structures. And, 13 again, I understand everybody has 14 worked together to minimize the 15 variances that have been requested and 16 the extent of them, so I am in support 17 of that. 18 Anybody else have any other 19 comments or questions? Member 20 Krieger. 21 MEMBER KRIEGER: Question. 22 For X.1, the new shops, how many shops 23 do you anticipate? 24 MR. QUINN: It could be zero 39 2 really take up the space and what the 3 configuration is going to be. 4 MEMBER KRIEGER: Okay. 5 MEMBER IBE: Mr. Chair, I 6 agree with what you said, as well as 7 what was discussed previously with the 8 former case. I have no objections. I 9 think that this case pretty much is 10 consistent with what we did with the 11 last case, so I support it as well. 12 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Anybody 13 else? If there is no other questions 14 or comments, I will entertain a motion. 15 Please, Member Ibe. 16 MEMBER IBE: In Case No. 17 10-067, Novi Town Center Building X.1, 18 I move that we grant the variances as 19 requested by the applicant for the fact 20 that the variances as requested is as a 21 result of the unique nature of the 22 buildings. 23 The applicants here are 24 trying to retrofit these buildings 40 2 its nature is difficult to accomplish 3 without the assistance of the variance. 4 The need is not self-created. It is 5 that which comes as a result of the 6 physical conditions of the area itself. 7 Strict compliance with 8 regulations governing area, setback, 9 frontage, height, bulk, density or 10 other dimensional requirements will 11 unreasonably prevent the property owner 12 from using the property for the 13 permitted purpose. And any effort to 14 enforce the rules here will 15 unnecessarily be burdensome to the 16 applicant. 17 The requested variance is the 18 minimum variance necessary to do 19 substantial justice to the applicant as 20 well as the other property owners. 21 And, finally, the requested 22 variance will not cause any adverse 23 impact to surrounding businesses. As I 24 said in the previous case, it will 41 2 businesses around it. 3 Based on this and other 4 matters that was discussed earlier, I 5 move that the variances as requested be 6 granted. Thank you. 7 MEMBER KRIEGER: Second. 8 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Okay. 9 Having been moved and seconded, any 10 further discussion from the board? 11 Seeing none, Ms. Martin, can you please 12 call the roll. 13 MS. MARTIN: Member Krieger? 14 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes. 15 MS. MARTIN: Member Ibe? 16 MEMBER IBE: Yes. 17 MS. MARTIN: Chairman 18 Ghannam? 19 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Yes. 20 MS. MARTIN: Member Skelcy? 21 MEMBER SKELCY: Yes. 22 MS. MARTIN: Member Gedeon? 23 MEMBER GEDEON: Yes. 24 MS. MARTIN: Motion passes, 42 2 MR. QUINN: Thank you all 3 very much. Appreciate it. Have a good 4 evening. 5 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Thank you, 6 sir. Next on the agenda is item number 7 eight, Case No. 10-068, 39465 Fourteen 8 Mile Road, PNC Bank. 9 Is the applicant here? Can 10 you please step forward. State your 11 name and address, and if you are not an 12 attorney, raise your right hand. 13 MR. DETERS: Thanks for 14 braving the weather; I appreciate it 15 everyone. 16 My name is Kevin Deters. I'm 17 from Metro Signs. The address is 23544 18 Hoover Road. That's Warren, Michigan, 19 48089. 20 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Can you 21 swear him in? 22 MEMBER IBE: In this Case No. 23 10-068, 39265 Fourteen Mile Road, PNC 24 Bank, do you swear or affirm to tell 43 2 MR. DETERS: Yes. 3 MEMBER IBE: Thank you. 4 MR. DETERS: We were here 5 back in November to request a couple of 6 wall signs for this bank, and the board 7 suggested that wall signs wouldn't be 8 the best way to meet our needs. And 9 after looking at it, the bank and Metro 10 Signs realized you are correct. 11 So, what we are planning on 12 doing is taking the existing monument 13 sign, which is five feet tall, and just 14 extending it up to eight feet by adding 15 some more pole and additional aluminum 16 skirt around the pole. 17 And the ordinance would allow 18 for us to have six feet, so if we 19 wanted to raise it one foot, we 20 wouldn't need to be here before the 21 board. But six feet, really, we 22 believe wouldn't be adequate to fulfill 23 their needs, because, first of all, 24 it's only an extra foot. 44 2 the right spot or if a couple of people 3 were walking past on a six-foot 4 monument sign, a lot of it would be 5 blocked. With the number of trees that 6 are approaching the monument sign from 7 both directions, eastbound and 8 westbound traffic along Fourteen Mile, 9 we believe that an eight-foot sign is 10 reasonable. 11 And, also, due to the really 12 far setback from Fourteen Mile that 13 this building has, and the fact that 14 it's blocked by that huge office 15 building that's just to the west of it, 16 we feel that really the bank needs this 17 height increase. Their customers have 18 been complaining that the sign that 19 they have is not sufficient for finding 20 the bank, and that's why we are here. 21 And I would be happy to 22 answer any questions you have. 23 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Thank you, 24 sir. At this time, is there anybody in 45 2 comment on this particular case? 3 Seeing none, I will close the public 4 remarks section and have the secretary 5 read any correspondence. 6 MEMBER IBE: Mr. Chair, 16 7 notices were mailed, zero responses, 8 zero mail returned. 9 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Thank you. 10 Next, I will open it up to the city for 11 any comment. 12 MR. BOULARD: Nothing to add 13 beyond the staff comments. 14 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Okay. At 15 this point, I will open it up to the 16 board for any comments or concerns. 17 MEMBER GEDEON: One question 18 for the applicant. You stated that you 19 thought you were requesting a variance 20 for only one foot greater than what the 21 ordinance allowed? 22 MR. DETERS: I said the 23 ordinance would allow us to increase 24 the existing sign by a foot. But we 46 2 from five to six feet, we wouldn't need 3 to be here. But the bank believes that 4 that wouldn't really do much. That 5 wouldn't be practical enough to spend a 6 thousand dollars or whatever on this 7 sign project, just to raise it another 8 foot. It wouldn't be worth their 9 money, basically. 10 MEMBER GEDEON: Okay. 11 MR. DETERS: As much as I 12 would love to do it for them, they have 13 other ideas. 14 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Any other 15 discussion from the board? 16 Member Krieger. 17 MEMBER KRIEGER: I did drive 18 by there, and if you are going from 19 east to west, the trees obscure that. 20 You don't see the bank until you are 21 right on top of it, unless you are 22 right -- if you know that you are going 23 -- where it's at. And then eastbound 24 is not as difficult. So, I do agree 47 2 you are not going to see it. That a 3 monument sign changed in some way would 4 help attention, that, yes, you have 5 arrived at the bank. 6 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Okay. 7 Anybody else have any discussion? 8 MEMBER GEDEON: I mean, I 9 personally don't see the difference 10 between an eight-foot monument sign and 11 a pole sign; I think they are pretty 12 big eyesores. I'm not really on board 13 with this. 14 MEMBER IBE: Mr. Chair, to 15 Mr. Boulard, is it Henry Ford 16 West Bloomfield? I'm sorry, is it the 17 hospital -- not the hospital. I think 18 there is one on Eight Mile. We had a 19 case similar to this once. Do you know 20 how high their monument sign is? It's 21 very similar to what I see here. I'm 22 not sure, is it eight feet, or did 23 we -- 24 MEMBER KRIEGER: Henry Ford 48 2 MEMBER IBE: Henry Ford on 3 Eight Mile, Eight Mile right across 4 from -- right by the bank. 5 MR. BOULARD: I don't know 6 that off the top of my head. I could 7 try to find the permit for that 8 address. 9 MEMBER IBE: To the 10 applicant, I don't know, I'm kind of 11 torn in between right now, because I'm 12 not a big fan on these high monument 13 signs. And definitely not a fan of the 14 pole signs. Eight feet for me is quite 15 high. 16 MR. DETERS: Okay. 17 MEMBER IBE: You can 18 understand why the city wants six feet, 19 because it's aesthetically pleasing to 20 the eye. I don't know how tall you 21 are. I know I'm not eight feet tall. 22 MR. DETERS: I'm five foot 23 seven. 24 MEMBER IBE: Yeah, so imagine 49 2 how tall that (inaudible) standing 3 right there in front of the building. 4 It doesn't appear to be the most 5 glamorous thing for anyone to take a 6 look at. 7 I understand the bank wants 8 to be seen. Most people who go to the 9 bank, pretty much know where the bank 10 is; wouldn't you agree with me? 11 MR. DETERS: Not from what 12 the bank's customers have been saying. 13 Yes, I understand your point; however, 14 the bank is interested in attracting 15 new customers, not only keeping the 16 ones that they have. Yes, I agree with 17 you, but, at the same time, banks just 18 like everybody else want to expand 19 their customer base. 20 MEMBER IBE: I have no 21 problem with that. In fact, that's why 22 we all support it. But I'm sure every 23 member, every individual member here 24 certainly wishes all businesses can 50 2 have to look at the regulations in the 3 city, as well as what we want the city 4 to look like. We don't want people 5 coming out with ten-foot pole signs and 6 15 feet, because everybody wants 7 customers. 8 MR. DETERS: I agree. I 9 understand what you are saying. If I 10 could comment about the "We don't like 11 pole signs." Every ground sign, 12 whether it's what you would consider a 13 pole sign or a monument sign, is 14 actually a pole sign. The only 15 difference is, with a monument sign, 16 the pole is being covered by a base 17 around it. So even a five-foot tall 18 monument sign technically is a pole 19 sign, because that's what supports it, 20 going up the middle. You just don't 21 see one big skinny pole in the top. 22 MEMBER IBE: Right now I'm 23 going to reserve my opinion about this, 24 depending on what the rest of the 51 2 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Member 3 Skelcy. 4 MEMBER SKELCY: When I look 5 at the standards required for granting 6 a sign variance, one of the things it 7 says is "Failure to grant relief will 8 unreasonably prevent or limit the use 9 of the property," and I don't see that 10 happening with this height of sign, for 11 the request that's being made. I think 12 that you haven't met that standard 13 that's required under the sign 14 ordinance for the city, so I could not 15 support it. 16 MR. DETERS: Okay. 17 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Just some 18 comments from myself, also. First of 19 all, to me, the proposed sign looks 20 awkward. The city council has issued 21 ordinances that limit the height of 22 signs. The question becomes, how do 23 you come in under the exception, or PNC 24 Bank -- 52 2 interrupt you for a second? 3 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: No, I 4 didn't ask you to interrupt; I'm just 5 giving you my comments. I didn't ask 6 you any questions. But I guess the 7 question comes, how do you or PNC Bank 8 come within the exceptions to the rule? 9 That's what we are, we grant exceptions 10 to the rule. The rule is uniformity 11 and height of signs and so forth, and 12 this gigantic eight-foot sign, to me, 13 doesn't sit well, okay. And I would 14 not be in support of it either. 15 I asked at the beginning, and 16 I don't know if you were here, I asked 17 at the beginning if anybody is 18 interested in tabling their matter, 19 because we do not have a full board. 20 You are certainly entitled to do that. 21 Based on the comments here, you can 22 still make that decision, if you'd 23 like. But, I will tell you, I will not 24 be in support of it. 53 2 board? 3 Sir, do you have any more 4 comments now? I will allow you to make 5 them. 6 MR. DETERS: Sorry about 7 that. 8 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: That's 9 fine. 10 MR. DETERS: Yes. You had 11 mentioned you don't like the way the 12 sign looks, and our mock sign doesn't 13 really do it justice. We just had to 14 add some plywood with some angle iron 15 to the top of the sign. 16 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: We have 17 seen mock signs before, and I 18 understand that's not going to be the 19 exact way it looks; it will be much 20 more decorative. I'm saying it's a 21 gigantic sign. It just looks so out of 22 place in a city that has regulated that 23 and tries to cap that off. That's all 24 my comment was. 54 2 since we need to come back for the 3 February meeting anyway for our other 4 PNC Bank at Ten Mile and Meadowbrook, 5 would I be able to table this request? 6 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Because we 7 do not have a full board, I will allow 8 you. As long as someone makes a motion 9 and it's approved, I have no problem 10 with that. I think you will get a 11 flavor from the board where most of the 12 members are. 13 MR. DETERS: I understand. 14 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Would 15 anybody like to make a motion to table 16 this? You want it to you said the 17 February 14th meeting? 18 MS. MARTIN: The 8th. 19 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: I'm sorry, 20 February 8th meeting. 21 MR. DETERS: We'll be here 22 anyway, so I might as well. 23 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Is there 24 any motion from any of the members to 55 2 up to you. 3 MEMBER SKELCY: I will move 4 in the case of 10-068, for the address 5 of 39465 Fourteen Mile Road, the PNC 6 Bank, that we table this until the 7 February 8, 2011 meeting. 8 MEMBER KRIEGER: Second. 9 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Any 10 further discussion? 11 MEMBER GEDEON: It seems kind 12 of pointless to table it to me 13 (inaudible); I'm not sure two 14 additional people -- 15 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: You need 16 four votes to pass any motion tonight. 17 So, any other comments? 18 Ms. Martin, can you please 19 call the roll. 20 MS. MARTIN: Member Krieger? 21 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes. 22 MS. MARTIN: Member Ibe? 23 MEMBER IBE: Yes. 24 MS. MARTIN: Chairman 56 2 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Yes. 3 MS. MARTIN: Member Skelcy? 4 MEMBER SKELCY: Yes. 5 MS. MARTIN: Member Gedeon? 6 MEMBER GEDEON: Yes. 7 MS. MARTIN: Motion passes, 8 five to zero. 9 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: You are 10 tabled to February 8, 2011. 11 MR. DETERS: Thank you. 12 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Next item 13 is Case No. 10-069. They have 14 requested a tabling of that, correct? 15 MS. MARTIN: Yes, February 16 8th. 17 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Do we 18 need a formal motion on that to table 19 that, item number nine? 20 MR. SCHULTZ: Yes. 21 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Given that 22 the applicant has already requested a 23 tabling of this by written 24 communication, can I hear a motion to 57 2 meeting? 3 MEMBER SKELCY: I move that 4 we table Case 10-069, for the address 5 of 27754 Novi Road, the case called 6 Suithouse, until the February 8, 2011 7 meeting. 8 MEMBER KRIEGER: Second. 9 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Any 10 further discussion? Seeing none, 11 Ms. Martin, can you please call the 12 roll. 13 MS. MARTIN: Member Krieger? 14 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes. 15 MS. MARTIN: Member Ibe? 16 MEMBER IBE: Yes. 17 MS. MARTIN: Chairman 18 Ghannam? 19 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Yes. 20 MS. MARTIN: Member Skelcy? 21 MEMBER SKELCY: Yes. 22 MS. MARTIN: Member Gedeon? 23 MEMBER GEDEON: Yes. 24 MS. MARTIN: Motion passes, 58 2 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Okay. 3 Going back, we have passed a couple 4 items because the applicant was not 5 here. Was the first one we passed item 6 number two, I believe? 7 MS. MARTIN: Yes. 8 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Calling 9 Case 10-057, 25300 Constitution, for 10 Main Street Village. 11 Sir, can you give us your 12 name and address. 13 MR. RANKIN: My name is Todd 14 Rankin. I am with Singh Development 15 Company, 7125 Orchard Lake Road, 16 West Bloomfield. 17 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Are you an 18 attorney, sir? 19 MR. RANKIN: I am not. 20 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Raise your 21 right hand, please. 22 MEMBER IBE: Sir, in 23 Case No. 10-057, do you swear or affirm 24 to the tell the truth? 59 2 MEMBER IBE: Thank you. 3 MR. RANKIN: Good evening. 4 I'm here tonight to discuss our real 5 estate sign for Main Street Village 6 Apartment Community. The sign in 7 question is located on Potomac Drive 8 just south of Main Street and Market 9 Street intersection. And the reason 10 for the request to continue to allow 11 the sign to be in its current location 12 is and has been because of the economic 13 times that we are in. We continue to 14 struggle with our occupancy of the 15 apartment complex. 16 The two access points to the 17 project, the first one is off of Grand 18 River. And the second one is right at 19 Potomac and Market and Main Street. 20 Having the sign in this 21 location allows us to continue to have 22 and offer exposure to our apartment 23 community, and we feel that the 24 extension would help us to increase the 60 2 The retail around us continues to 3 struggle. And we have always -- when 4 the project was built, we always relied 5 on that to help assist our occupancy 6 levels. And because of things, they 7 have not done well. So, I'm here to 8 ask your assistance in granting this 9 extension. 10 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Okay. Is 11 there anybody from the public who would 12 like to make a comment on this 13 particular case? Seeing none, I will 14 close the public remarks section and 15 ask the secretary to read any 16 correspondence, if any. 17 MEMBER IBE: Forty-seven 18 notices were mailed, zero responses, 19 two mail returned. 20 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Okay. Any 21 comments from the city? 22 MR. BOULARD: Nothing. 23 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Then I 24 will open it up to the board for 61 2 MEMBER SKELCY: Yes. Sir, it 3 looks to me like this sign has been up 4 for a period of five years, is that 5 accurate? 6 MR. RANKIN: It has, yes. 7 That's correct. 8 MEMBER SKELCY: I'm 9 wondering, Mr. Boulard, are they 10 entitled to a sign of some kind for 11 this group of stores, collection of 12 stores? 13 MR. BOULARD: This is 14 actually the apartment complex behind 15 the -- 16 MEMBER SKELCY: Oh, behind 17 the stores at the Main Street. 18 MR. BOULARD: Right. The 19 sign is at that internal entrance. 20 There is signage there that meets the 21 requirements or falls under the 22 allowable areas and heights and so on 23 of the ordinance. This is in addition 24 to that, and has gone beyond the time 62 2 estate, the market gives them. 3 MEMBER SKELCY: Could the 4 current sign you have at the beginning 5 of the apartment complex have some 6 added language, to the permanent sign, 7 that is, that you have openings 8 available? Because I think it like 9 almost becomes a permanent sign, it's 10 been given so many variances. 11 MR. RANKIN: Well, the 12 permanent signage that we do have out 13 at Grand River, the problem that we 14 face with that, it is partially 15 obscured by Belle Tire and the other 16 buildings that are along there. So, it 17 was a way for us to increase the 18 marketing exposure of the project, 19 specifically towards the Main Street 20 area. 21 Again, as we anticipated that 22 the other areas would develop around 23 us, and it would almost be a little bit 24 more natural, but that hasn't quite 63 2 have that marketing window where this 3 sign is located is very beneficial to 4 our occupancy levels. 5 MEMBER SKELCY: What are the 6 occupancy levels right now? 7 MR. RANKIN: The occupancy 8 levels are in the -- I think they are 9 in the low to mid eighties. 10 MEMBER SKELCY: That's pretty 11 high. 12 MR. RANKIN: We don't feel 13 that it's high. I mean, we strive for 14 about a 95 percent occupancy level. 15 Other communities of ours are reaching 16 those. 17 It's a luxury living 18 apartment community, and a lot of our 19 tenants were automotive-related in the 20 area, as well as transferees, as well 21 as people who come here for long-term 22 work from overseas. And as that market 23 kind of started to dry up a bit, so did 24 our occupancy from them. So we 64 2 getting different tenants into our 3 building. And we just feel that having 4 that exposure out there with the 5 signage that's there, helps from that 6 particular location. 7 MEMBER SKELCY: I think my 8 original question to you was can you 9 put some type of vacancy notices on 10 your permanent sign? 11 MR. RANKIN: We probably 12 could look at that to see if we could 13 do a vacancy, available vacancy, 14 something of that nature. I'm not sure 15 that that would be as visible as we 16 need it to be. Typically, the consumer 17 that's looking for an apartment 18 building, it's drive-by type of 19 exposure. And if they see this -- if 20 they see the sign and they see 21 everything else, they are going to 22 investigate whether it says occupancy 23 or not. I don't know of too many other 24 apartment communities that say 65 2 investigate that. 3 MEMBER SKELCY: I guess at 4 this point I would have to say that I'm 5 not in favor of giving another 6 variance, just because it's been so 7 very very long for your particular 8 company. Thank you. 9 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Member 10 Ibe. 11 MEMBER IBE: Thank you, 12 Mr. Chair. Sir, you said the occupancy 13 level right now is in the low to mid 14 eighties, is that correct? 15 MR. RANKIN: That's from my 16 recollection; I don't have the exact 17 numbers. 18 MEMBER IBE: Do you have any 19 data to tell me what the occupancy rate 20 was from 2005 to 2009? 21 MR. RANKIN: I could probably 22 get that, but I don't have that with 23 me. 24 MEMBER IBE: Just guessing 66 2 eighties or nineties, do you know? 3 MR. RANKIN: It really does 4 fluctuate. I mean, we have been up 5 near 90; we have been in the upper 6 seventies. So, I mean, it really does 7 fluctuate. 8 MEMBER IBE: So the 95 9 percent you are looking at or mid 10 nineties has not been attainable all 11 these years, is that correct? Would 12 you agree with that? 13 MR. RANKIN: That's 14 correct. 15 MEMBER IBE: So, even if we 16 give you -- 17 MR. RANKIN: Actually, let me 18 back up. I'm not sure that we have not 19 been at 95. I can't say that for 20 certain. 21 MEMBER IBE: So, obviously, 22 you don't have that today, right? 23 MR. RANKIN: I do not. 24 MEMBER IBE: Sir, I must try 67 2 present economic time that we are 3 living in. 4 MR. RANKIN: Sure. 5 MEMBER IBE: However, as 6 someone who obviously has seen signs 7 become permanent signs, I just can't 8 find myself supporting this, simply 9 because I think that the numbers you 10 are trying to attain is unrealistic and 11 probably will not attain that number. 12 And I doubt if you agree to go back and 13 bring me data that you could show the 14 data, the information you are thinking 15 is in the nineties, you probably don't 16 have that. And probably wouldn't be 17 able to get there in two years 18 (inaudible) extend this for 24 months. 19 So, I don't believe it is so 20 much as the economic times. I think 21 it's probably about what other 22 communities are probably (inaudible) or 23 the -- where you are located, but maybe 24 that's the best you can do. 68 2 the permanent sign you have right now I 3 think works for you. It is only a 4 matter whether or not you chose to put 5 additional information or to modify it 6 in order to advertise what you are 7 selling. 8 We have had people come 9 before this board with signage, and 10 each time they obviously ask for an 11 extension, which has been granted. 12 However, we have seen it come over and 13 over again. You know, temporary signs 14 are what it's supposed to be. You 15 exceeded I think the grace period that 16 has been allotted to you. 17 I'm so sorry, sir, as much as 18 I empathize for your business, I 19 certainly cannot vote for this. 20 Thank you, Mr. Chair. 21 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Anybody 22 else have any comments? Member 23 Gedeon. 24 MEMBER GEDEON: Just echoing 69 2 number 95 percent. Do you have any 3 information about your competitors? Is 4 anybody at 95 percent? Is that a 5 reasonable goal? 6 MR. RANKIN: I think it is 7 reasonable, but I do not know what our 8 other competitors' occupancies are at. 9 MEMBER GEDEON: And, 10 hypothetically, if the ordinance -- the 11 extension was granted here, do you -- 12 would you actually envision your 13 company taking down a sign if you 14 reached 95 percent? 15 MR. RANKIN: I think if it 16 was to increase, we would consider to 17 take it down, because then we have hit 18 the occupancy level that we are 19 striving for, and we would be confident 20 that we would be able to maintain that 21 occupancy. 22 I mean, it's our feeling that 23 our community and the retail community 24 around us kind of work together. The 70 2 downtown living type of an atmosphere. 3 And our feeling was the community 4 around us would support us and vice 5 versa. The better our occupancy would 6 be, that would spill off residents that 7 would -- that would shop and entertain 8 the businesses around us. 9 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Member 10 Krieger. 11 MEMBER KRIEGER: I agree with 12 the previous members. 13 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: I will 14 just make a brief comment. The 15 arguments you are making are economic 16 arguments, and those are generally what 17 we can't consider as part of a request. 18 We have very difficult, strict sign 19 ordinances. You have to show an 20 exception to the rule. You are arguing 21 that you want to try to increase your 22 business, like everybody else, but 23 that's not how we grant exceptions to 24 the rule. Although they can be made 71 2 point, as Member Ibe indicated, they 3 become permanent. So, I would not also 4 be in favor of this also at this point. 5 Anybody else have any more 6 comments or questions? If not, we'll 7 entertain a motion. Member Krieger. 8 MEMBER KRIEGER: Would he 9 also have the opportunity to table it? 10 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: You do. 11 You will have the opportunity to table 12 it. If you understood my previous 13 comments, because we don't have a full 14 board tonight, you do need -- now that 15 we have five people, you need four of 16 the five to pass any motion for 17 approval. So, if you want, based on 18 our comments, you can ask to have it 19 tabled, and the members agree, it will 20 be tabled. If not, we'll take a vote 21 tonight. 22 MR. RANKIN: If we were to be 23 tabled and we were to come back next 24 month with documentation of occupancy, 72 2 change anybody's mind? That seemed to 3 be a question that was being asked. 4 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Well, I'm 5 not going to speak for anybody. I know 6 it wouldn't affect mine, because that's 7 not something we can consider, your 8 business or economic -- your inability 9 to get some kind of economic return. 10 The question is you fail our standards 11 for these types of signs. 12 In any event, based on what 13 you heard, do you want to table this or 14 you want a vote tonight? It's up to 15 you. 16 MR. RANKIN: I think if 17 having hard-and-fast occupancy data 18 would not change anything, that really 19 seemed to be the only real unknown 20 here, I don't know what the point would 21 be, to be quite honest. 22 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Okay. 23 Given that, would anybody like to make 24 a motion? Member Skelcy. 73 2 we deny the variance in Case No. 10-057 3 sought by Main Street Village because 4 the petitioner has not shown practical 5 difficulty requiring the variance for a 6 temporary sign. The circumstances and 7 features of the property, including the 8 layout of the facility, are not unique, 9 because they exist generally throughout 10 the city. The circumstances and 11 features of the property relating to 12 the variance request are self-created, 13 because they are seeking the use of a 14 temporary sign to generate business. 15 The failure to grant the 16 relief will result in mere 17 inconvenience or inability to attain 18 higher economic or financial return, 19 based on the petitioner's statements 20 that they are seeking to have an 21 occupancy rate of 95 percent. 22 The variance would result in 23 interference with the adjacent and 24 surrounding properties by allowing 74 2 granting the variance would be 3 inconsistent with the spirit and intent 4 of the ordinance to maintain proper 5 signage throughout the city. 6 MEMBER KRIEGER: Second. 7 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Given a 8 motion and second, any further 9 discussion? Seeing none, Ms. Martin, 10 can you please call the roll. 11 MS. MARTIN: Member Krieger? 12 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes. 13 MS. MARTIN: Member Ibe? 14 MEMBER IBE: Yes. 15 MS. MARTIN: Chairman 16 Ghannam? 17 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Yes. 18 MS. MARTIN: Member Skelcy? 19 MEMBER SKELCY: Yes. 20 MS. MARTIN: Member Gedeon? 21 MEMBER GEDEON: Yes. 22 MS. MARTIN: Motion passes, 23 five to zero to deny. 24 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Sorry, 75 2 MR. RANKIN: Thank you. 3 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: The next 4 one we passed over, was that item 5 number four? For Case No. 10-064, 6 44050 Twelve Mile Road. Is the 7 applicant here? Can you please 8 approach, sir. Can you please state 9 your name and address. 10 MR. ASH: Robby Ash, 11 Northstar Signs, 1109 East Ten Mile 12 Road, Madison Heights, Michigan. 13 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Are you an 14 attorney, sir? 15 MR. ASH: No, I'm not. 16 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Please 17 raise your hand and be sworn. 18 MEMBER IBE: Sir, in Case No. 19 10-064, do you swear or affirm to tell 20 the truth? 21 MR. ASH: I do. 22 MEMBER IBE: Thank you. 23 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Go ahead, 24 sir. 76 2 is -- there is already a temporary sign 3 existing on this property. This is for 4 a continuation of a previous variance. 5 And going back to the original 6 argument, the size of the sign allowed 7 by the ordinance does not adequately 8 represent the size of the development. 9 There are seven buildings 10 back here. And the purpose for the 11 initial request of a larger sign was to 12 more adequately represent the property 13 that's actually being advertised. And 14 we would just re-state that argument in 15 this case. 16 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Okay. Is 17 there anybody in the public who has any 18 comment on this particular case? 19 Seeing none, I will close the public 20 remarks section and ask the secretary 21 to read correspondence. 22 MEMBER IBE: Mr. Chair, there 23 were 15 notices mailed, one objection, 24 zero approvals, nine mail return. 77 2 Baker of 28034 Carlton Way Drive, dated 3 12/29/2010. And it reads, "I object." 4 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Thank you. 5 Any comments from the city? 6 MR. BOULARD: No comments. 7 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: We will 8 open it up to the board for discussion. 9 MEMBER KRIEGER: Do you know 10 the occupancy of the buildings? 11 MR. ASH: I do not. 12 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Anything 13 else, Member Krieger? 14 MEMBER KRIEGER: No. 15 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Member 16 Skelcy. 17 MEMBER SKELCY: This 18 facility, is it up high off of Twelve 19 Mile? Is it located -- are you 20 familiar with the area? 21 MR. RANKIN: Not 22 particularly. I just have a site plan 23 here, and I don't have the elevation 24 drawings, so I can't answer that either 78 2 MEMBER SKELCY: Okay. Thank 3 you. 4 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Any other 5 questions, comments or discussion? 6 MEMBER KRIEGER: I guess to 7 the city, how many times we have 8 approved this before, just the once? 9 MR. BOULARD: There was a 10 variance when the sign was originally 11 installed in '09 for the sign. 12 There is also a larger sign 13 for the entire development that was 14 approved by the board separately. This 15 is just -- 16 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: That was 17 for a tenant sign, correct, if I 18 recall? Like a list of tenants? 19 MS. MARTIN: Yes. 20 MR. BOULARD: Yes. 21 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Okay. 22 Anything else? 23 I will just make a quick 24 comment while everybody is thinking. I 79 2 because it was a larger development, 3 and I believe -- do you know if all the 4 buildings are complete at this point? 5 MR. ASH: I do not know. 6 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Do you 7 know if all the buildings are complete? 8 MR. BOULARD: They are not. 9 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: They are 10 not. 11 MR. BOULARD: There are 12 several buildings still to be built. 13 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Right. 14 How many buildings are there now, do 15 you recall? 16 MR. BOULARD: I believe that 17 there are -- depending on my memory, I 18 believe there is three buildings that 19 are up, and there is some foundations 20 in. It could be as little as two. I 21 think there is three. I wouldn't bet 22 money on it. 23 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: All right. 24 I remember this, because I thought it 80 2 a large development; you really had 3 only one sign. There was some issues 4 with Twelve Mile, because it is 5 multiple lanes and so forth. And I 6 know we did it for I believe a year 7 last time. I would be in favor of a 8 year, but as I explained before, I 9 mean, at some point, you know, if it's 10 simply -- I mean, it should not be a 11 permanent sign. So, I would be in 12 favor of at least a one-year extension 13 at this point. Anybody else? 14 MEMBER IBE: Mr. Chair, I 15 would like to support what Mr. Chairman 16 has said. I will be in support for one 17 more year. And the only reason why I'm 18 in support of that is because of the 19 fact that you just had this matter come 20 before us for the first extension. 21 Now, I'm sure you were in the 22 room here and you heard from the last 23 applicant. Certainly, we don't want 24 these to become the norm instead of the 81 2 because it's almost expected they are 3 going to get an extension. You may 4 want to go back to the party whom you 5 work for and let them know there are 6 ways to accommodate for these signs, so 7 you don't keep doing this over and over 8 again. 9 Twelve months is probably 10 what I'm comfortable with. I don't 11 know what the rest of the members are, 12 at least for now. And I wish you the 13 best of luck. Thank you. 14 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Go ahead, 15 Member Skelcy. 16 MEMBER SKELCY: Since I live 17 in this general area, I know that this 18 facility is elevated off of Twelve 19 Mile. You can't really see the 20 buildings from there. So, you know, I 21 feel like there are some features that 22 are exceptional to this particular 23 property location, and would be 24 agreeable to a one-year extension as 82 2 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Okay. Any 3 other discussion? If not, I will 4 entertain a motion. Member Ibe. 5 MEMBER IBE: In Case No. 6 10-064, 44050 Stoneridge Office Park, I 7 move that the petitioner's request for 8 an extension of the sign currently 9 located at this property be extended 10 for 12 months. The reason being that 11 the unique location of this property, I 12 believe the property actually has a 13 berm that's in front of it, that's 14 elevated somewhat and shielding the 15 actual property. You can't really see 16 it from Twelve Mile Road, depending on 17 how fast you are going, especially 18 going west on Twelve Mile Road. And 19 it's difficult to see going east on 20 Twelve Mile. 21 The applicant obviously has 22 made significant efforts in trying to 23 comply with the ordinance. However, 24 failure to grant the extension will 83 2 property and will result in mere 3 inconvenience and prevent the applicant 4 from attaining the full financial 5 returns that its made in this 6 investment. 7 The grant of relief will not 8 be incompatible with or interfere with 9 the surrounding and adjacent 10 properties, and this is also consistent 11 with the spirit of the ordinance. 12 Thank you, Mr. Chair. 13 MEMBER KRIEGER: Second. 14 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Okay. Any 15 further discussion? Seeing none, 16 Ms. Martin, can you please call the 17 roll. 18 MS. MARTIN: Member Krieger? 19 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes. 20 MS. MARTIN: Member Ibe? 21 MEMBER IBE: Yes. 22 MS. MARTIN: Chairman 23 Ghannam? 24 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Yes. 84 2 MEMBER SKELCY: Yes. 3 MS. MARTIN: Member Gedeon? 4 MEMBER GEDEON: Yes. 5 MS. MARTIN: Motion passes, 6 five to zero for one year. 7 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: 8 Congratulations, sir. 9 MR. ASH: Thank you. I 10 appreciate it. 11 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Okay. And 12 you are on item number five, also? 13 MR. ASH: Yes. 14 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Okay. I'm 15 going to call Case No. 10-065, 41050 16 Bridge Street. Northstar Signs, Inc. 17 is requesting an extension of variance 18 ZBA08-062 for a 63 square foot real 19 estate sign located at 41000 Bridge 20 Street. 21 Go ahead, sir. You have to 22 state your name again and address, and 23 raise your right hand. 24 MR. ASH: Robby Ash, 85 2 Road, Madison Heights, Michigan. 3 MEMBER IBE: Sir, in Case No. 4 10-065, 41000 Bridge Street, do you 5 swear or affirm to tell the truth? 6 MR. ASH: I do. 7 MEMBER IBE: Thank you. 8 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Go ahead, 9 sir. 10 MR. ASH: The reason we are 11 asking for the -- well, let me back up 12 a second. 13 The purpose of this property, 14 our client is seeking to utilize this 15 property as a new headquarters to be 16 Leed, or L-E-E-D, certified, and that 17 takes time. So, that's the reason for 18 the extension. 19 The reason for the variance 20 pertaining to the size of the sign, as 21 was stated, I believe you have a copy 22 of this. But this sign faces the 23 freeway, which makes it difficult to 24 read. You know, the speed of the 86 2 property. In order to read the sign, 3 the vehicles would have to slow down or 4 pull over. So, with a larger sign, you 5 know, we would be illuminating that. 6 Consequently, making it safer. 7 And then another reason 8 stated here was failure to erect a 9 larger sign will negatively impact the 10 exposure of the property to potential 11 prospects and hinder the ability to 12 secure a prospect seeking a new 13 headquarters location. Again, that's 14 the reason we are asking for the 15 extension. 16 It's difficult to attract 17 these types of customers, and it takes 18 a little bit longer. And in this case, 19 we believe a larger sign is definitely 20 required. 21 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Thank you, 22 sir. Is there anybody in the public 23 who would like to make a comment on 24 this particular case at this point? 87 2 remarks section and ask the secretary 3 to read the correspondence. 4 MEMBER IBE: Mr. Chair, 16 5 notices were mailed, zero responses, 6 four mail returned. 7 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Thank you. 8 Any comments from the city? 9 MR. BOULARD: Just a quick 10 question. The application is for 11 extension of the variances issued in 12 2008, correct? 13 MR. ASH: Correct. 14 MR. BOULARD: That's how it's 15 listed. I guess the only question -- 16 the letter or the petition from -- are 17 you Jeff? 18 MR. ASH: No, I'm not. 19 MR. BOULARD: The petition 20 from Jeff seems to indicate you are 21 looking for a larger sign. It says the 22 current sign is too small. My guess is 23 that letter is from the original 24 request. 88 2 original request. 3 MR. BOULARD: Okay. Thank 4 you. 5 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: I just had 6 a question. The size of this 7 particular sign is -- that's there now, 8 that you want the same is nine foot by 9 seven foot? 10 MR. ASH: Correct. 11 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: What is 12 the -- what is allowed by the city 13 ordinance for these types of leasing 14 signs? 15 MR. BOULARD: Sixteen square 16 feet. 17 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: I do 18 remember actually this one, also, 19 because I was here in '08. And I know 20 this is mainly to advertise to 275, 21 correct? 22 MR. ASH: Correct. 23 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: This does 24 not show to anyone else other than the 89 2 that time. However, again, I guess the 3 question becomes because of our 4 limitations by city ordinance, the 5 question becomes when does a temporary 6 sign become permanent? 7 What is currently housed in 8 this particular building that you are 9 advertising for? 10 MR. ASH: As far as I know, 11 this building is vacant, and they are 12 seeking to get someone in there. I may 13 be mistaken on that, but that is my 14 understanding. 15 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: I'm sorry, 16 go ahead. 17 MR. BOULARD: If I may, the 18 building that's noted here on your 19 drawing is not constructed at this 20 point. 21 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: It is not 22 constructed? 23 MR. BOULARD: Not to the best 24 of my knowledge. 90 2 the one that says JPRA, is that 3 constructed? 4 MR. BOULARD: That is 5 constructed. That was occupied by 6 JPRA; they have since moved out. I 7 believe (inaudible) Technologies is 8 occupying a portion of that building, 9 or all of that building, I'm sorry. 10 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Any other 11 comments from the board? 12 Member Krieger. 13 MEMBER KRIEGER: I would be 14 willing to let them have it for another 15 year. 16 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Okay. 17 Anybody else have any comments? 18 MEMBER SKELCY: You know, I 19 wish that you were a bit more prepared 20 to address the standards for granting 21 the sign variance. You know, it seems 22 to me that the circumstances and 23 features that are exceptional and 24 unique to the property are that it 91 2 gets a lot of traffic to advertise for 3 it, but two years is a long time. And 4 it's kind of like I think bordering on 5 too long, but I would agree with 6 Member Krieger and agree to one more 7 year. 8 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Anybody 9 else have any comments? Given the 10 nature of the circumstances, I don't 11 have a problem with the year, also, 12 especially in light of the building has 13 not even been constructed, so I don't 14 have any problem with that. 15 Anybody else? Can I hear a 16 motion? Member Krieger. 17 MEMBER KRIEGER: In Case No. 18 10-065, 41000 Bridge Street, I move to 19 approve the request by Northstar Signs, 20 Incorporated, for the extension of 21 their 63 square foot real estate sign 22 for along the expressway for a period 23 of one year. And this request is 24 unique to this area because it doesn't 92 2 have to -- they are facing the 3 expressway, which is at a higher speed. 4 And the relief will not result in the 5 use of a structure that is incompatible 6 and unreasonably interfere with 7 adjacent or surrounding properties. 8 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Any 9 seconds? 10 MEMBER IBE: I will second. 11 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Okay. Any 12 further discussion? Seeing none, 13 Ms. Martin, can you call the roll, 14 please. 15 MS. MARTIN: Member Krieger? 16 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes. 17 MS. MARTIN: Member Ibe? 18 MEMBER IBE: Yes. 19 MS. MARTIN: Chairman 20 Ghannam? 21 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Yes. 22 MS. MARTIN: Member Skelcy? 23 MEMBER SKELCY: Yes. 24 MS. MARTIN: Member Gedeon? 93 2 MS. MARTIN: Motion passes, 3 five to zero for a one-year extension. 4 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: 5 Congratulations, sir. 6 MR. ASH: Thank you. 7 MEMBER KRIEGER: Have a safe 8 drive home. 9 MR. ASH: Thank you. 10 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: There 11 should be no other items on the agenda. 12 MS. MARTIN: That's it. 13 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Anything 14 else for the record tonight? 15 MEMBER SKELCY: I want to 16 apologize for the record for being 17 late. I was in Ann Arbor and had 18 really awkward traffic with the bad 19 weather. So, my apologies to my fellow 20 board members at the city. 21 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: No 22 problem. Mr. Boulard. 23 MR. BOULARD: I just wanted 24 to mention to the board there was a 94 2 regarding the Mid Michigan Concrete 3 Crushing and Hayes Trucking site, and 4 just wanted to let you know or report 5 we followed up on that, and those -- 6 all those -- that storage and equipment 7 was removed by December 15th as 8 indicated. 9 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: Good. I 10 will entertain a motion to adjourn. 11 MEMBER IBE: I move that we 12 adjourn this meeting to February 8, 13 2011. 14 MEMBER KRIEGER: Second. 15 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: All in 16 favor, say aye. 17 THE BOARD: Aye. 18 CHAIRMAN GHANNAM: All 19 opposed? Seeing none, we are 20 adjourned. 21 (The Meeting was adjourned 22 at 8:23 p.m.) 23 - - - 24 95 2 3 C E R T I F I C A T E 4 5 I, Sherri L. Ruff, do hereby 6 certify that I have recorded 7 stenographically the proceedings had 8 and testimony taken in the 9 above-entitled matter at the time and 10 place hereinbefore set forth, and I do 11 further certify that the foregoing 12 transcript, consisting of (65) 13 typewritten pages, is a true and 14 correct transcript of my said 15 stenographic notes. 16 17 18 ______________ 22 23 24
|