REGULAR MEETING - ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
CITY OF NOVI
TUESDAY, MARCH 16, 2010


Proceedings had and Testimony taken in the matters of the ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS, at City of Novi, 45175 West Ten Mile Road, Novi, Michigan, on Tuesday, March 16, 2010.

BOARD MEMBERS
Wayne Wrobel, Chairperson
Mav Sanghvi
Victor Cassis
Linda Krieger
David Ghannam
Donna Skelcy
Jeffrey Gedeon

ALSO PRESENT:
Beth Kudla, City Attorney
Charles Boulard, Building Official
Malinda Martin, Senior Customer Service
Representative

REPORTED BY:

Sherri L. Ruff, Certified Shorthand Reporter


1 Novi, Michigan
2 Tuesday, March 16, 2010
3 7:03 p.m.
4 - - -
5 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: I would
6 like to call to order the March 16th
7 regular meeting of the City of Novi
8 Zoning Board of Appeals.
9 Would everybody please rise at
10 this time for the Pledge of Allegiance.
11 BOARD MEMBERS: I pledge
12 allegiance to the flag of the United
13 States of America, and to the republic
14 for which it stands, one nation, under
15 God, indivisible, with liberty and
16 justice for all.
17 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Ms.
18 Martin, would you please call the roll.
19 MS. MARTIN: Member Sanghvi?
20 MEMBER SANGHVI: Here.
21 MS. MARTIN: Member Cassis?
22 MEMBER CASSIS: Here.
23 MS. MARTIN: Member Krieger?
24 MEMBER KRIEGER: Present.





4

1 MS. MARTIN: Member Ibe?
2 MEMBER IBE: Present.
3 MS. MARTIN: Chairman Wrobel?
4 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Present.
5 MS. MARTIN: Member Ghannam?
6 MEMBER GHANNAM: Here.
7 MS. MARTIN: Member Skelcy?
8 MEMBER SKELCY: Here.
9 MS. MARTIN: Member Gedeon?
10 MEMBER GEDEON: Here.
11 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: We do
12 have a quorum, and the meeting is now in
13 session.
14 Before we begin, I would like
15 to welcome our newest board member, Jeff
16 Gedeon, who will also serve as the ZBA
17 alternate. I hope you will enjoy your
18 time. If there is anything we can do to
19 help you, let us know.
20 MEMBER GEDEON: Okay.
21 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: A few
22 housekeeping items. As a reminder,
23 please turn off all cellphones and pagers
24 and ringers at this time.





5

1 At this time I'd also like to
2 go over some of the meeting rules. A
3 copy of the entire public meeting rules
4 of conduct is available next to the
5 chamber entrance door.
6 The Zoning Board of Appeals is
7 a hearing board empowered by the City of
8 Novi to hear appeals from individuals
9 seeking variances from the existing Novi
10 ordinances.
11 It takes a vote of at least
12 four members to approve a variance
13 request, and a majority of members
14 present to deny a request. Tonight we
15 have a full board, so all decisions will
16 be final.
17 Individual applicants may take
18 up to five minutes, and groups may take
19 up to ten minutes to address the board.
20 The next item is the approval
21 of the agenda. Are there any additions,
22 deletions or changes to the proposed
23 agenda?
24 MS. MARTIN: The only addition





6

1 was Member Gedeon to the list of
2 members.
3 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Okay.
4 Seeing nothing else, I entertain a motion
5 to approve it.
6 MEMBER SANGHVI: So move.
7 MEMBER GHANNAM: I second.
8 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Moved and
9 seconded. All in favor, say aye.
10 BOARD MEMBERS: Aye.
11 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Opposed,
12 no. Agenda is approved.
13 Next is the approval of the
14 meeting minutes from the February 9, 2010
15 meeting. Are there any changes to the
16 minutes?
17 Okay. Seeing none, I will also
18 entertain a motion to approve.
19 MEMBER GHANNAM: So move.
20 MEMBER IBE: Second.
21 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: It's been
22 moved and seconded. All in favor, say
23 aye.
24 BOARD MEMBERS: Aye.





7

1 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Opposed,
2 no. The meeting minutes have been
3 approved.
4 At this time we have a special
5 presentation for a long-time colleague,
6 Jerry Bauer, who served the city
7 faithfully for many years, and hopefully
8 will continue to do so.
9 Senator Cassis, Mr. Bauer, the
10 stage is all yours.
11 MS. CASSIS: Thank you. And
12 good evening, Chairperson Wrobel. Thank
13 you for giving me this opportunity to
14 come before you. I have been before
15 numerous boards and city councils, and
16 not only Novi, because that's where I
17 started, but throughout this wonderful
18 15th district. And I want to say
19 something about the Zoning Board of
20 Appeals, which we honor Jerry Bauer
21 tonight for 33 years of service.
22 Zoning Board of Appeals is, I
23 think, almost the most critical board in
24 any community. You make some very tough





8

1 decisions. And as the chairman said,
2 after the decision is made on a matter
3 before you, it's final, unless you choose
4 to go through the judicial system. So, I
5 believe we have the brightest and the
6 best on a board that is composed of
7 members of the Zoning Board of Appeals.
8 I respect your service and the
9 time you give, and the thoughtfulness,
10 the wisdom, you put into your decisions.
11 Because just like those of us at the
12 state level, some of those decisions are
13 always rather trying and rather
14 difficult. They take all our skills, all
15 our dedication.
16 Jerry Bauer and his wife, who
17 is with him tonight, Carol. Carol
18 Bauer -- excuse me, Carol Smith and Guy
19 Smith. All of these three individuals
20 along with Jerry are individuals who
21 helped establish the foundation of this
22 community. Lest we never forget our
23 history and the legacy of individuals who
24 really really provided the bedrock of





9

1 what we enjoy today.
2 I can't even imagine what Novi
3 looked like in 1974, Jerry, when you
4 joined the ZBA. I did not arrive until
5 1980. And then, of course, I married my
6 husband, who moved here, and he has been
7 a loyal servant, too, for his community.
8 I think of Novi then and I look
9 at it today, and I also look ahead,
10 Jerry, to what will be the legacy. And I
11 started to mention some of the fine
12 people who brought us to where we are
13 today. I'm not going to name all of
14 them, but some of them I just have to
15 underscore these individuals who did so
16 much and set the stage for all of us
17 today.
18 Mayor Romaine Roethel, Mayor
19 Robert Schmid, Joe Brett, and his
20 colleague at the time, Joe Toll (ph), who
21 were so very much involved in the storm
22 water drain program, and members of the
23 planning commission. These are some of
24 the people I remember and cherish along





10

1 the years that we traveled this journey
2 together.
3 This tribute is a state tribute
4 to honor the commitment, the dedication,
5 the enormous service that Jerry has done
6 for not only Novi, but his impact on the
7 entire region and the state. You see,
8 Jerry just doesn't do one thing; he does
9 many.
10 And I don't know if you are
11 aware, but he has been instrumental, no
12 pun intended, with the Civil War Band
13 that is very famous in these parts and
14 travels all over; they are unique. And
15 Jerry is part of that.
16 I want to read a little bit of
17 this tribute, because a man is known and
18 a city is known, not just because of the
19 accomplishments, the brick and mortar
20 that they were able to assemble and bring
21 about, but they really are embedded and
22 in our minds and memories for the spirit
23 that they exuded, that became and that is
24 Novi. So let me read something about





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1 this man, Jerry Bauer's legacy.
2 In addition to being on our
3 ZBA, he served as a member of the Novi
4 CERT and Friends of the Novi Library
5 board of directors. At a time in our
6 history in Novi -- and you got to
7 remember, this is before Twelve Oaks.
8 Can you imagine that? Before West Oaks,
9 Town Center, before the Expo Center,
10 before Providence Hospital, before this
11 building, before the police building.
12 Jerry was here helping guide the decision
13 making.
14 So officials face many
15 challenges and changes, and Jerry is
16 respected with a heartfelt concern for
17 the citizens, the businesses, and the
18 institutions of the City of Novi. Jerry
19 will take with him many many memories of
20 the trials he faced and the valuable
21 insights into the complexity of our
22 system of democracy. He has expended
23 energy and time working through
24 situations to develop positive solutions





12

1 for those involved.
2 With all that you have given to
3 the people of the City of Novi, you can
4 take a great deal of personal pride and
5 satisfaction in knowing the long-lasting
6 good you have done for this city. In
7 fact, I don't know if it was Bob Schmid
8 or maybe Guy Smith who once said to me
9 when I was still pretty green behind the
10 ears, "What do you personally take from
11 all your service to our community?" And
12 he said, "I look around Novi as I drive
13 around, and I can see different things
14 that I had input into. And that makes me
15 proud that I'm part of building a city."
16 And as Bob Schmid said, and you, I'm
17 sure, always adhered to, "We are building
18 Novi as a city to stand the test of
19 time."
20 You have -- your service is
21 invaluable, and on behalf of the State of
22 Michigan, Hugh Crawford, who represented
23 myself, I want to thank you deeply for
24 everything you have done. God bless you.





13

1 MR. BAUER: This is a little
2 something, I will tell you. It's
3 something, state senator, representative
4 of the 38th District. And I -- not to
5 sound funny, but I really haven't done
6 anything. Really. We had a job to do,
7 and we did it. And one of these times I
8 might come back and watch these people,
9 keep them on their toes.
10 I thank the city, and I thank
11 the state. I'm not through yet. I try
12 to make it very simple. I love the city.
13 And I think everyone on the board does,
14 too.
15 That's all I got to say, Nancy.
16 MS. CASSIS: Thank you so much.
17 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Thank
18 you, Senator Cassis. And, once again,
19 Jerry, thank you for everything you have
20 done with the city. We look forward to
21 you still doing more, probably outlast
22 me.
23 MR. BAUER: Thank you.
24 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Next on





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1 the agenda is the public remarks section
2 of the meeting. If there is anyone in
3 the audience wishing to make any
4 comments, not pertaining to any matter on
5 the agenda tonight, please come forward.
6 Seeing none, the public remarks
7 section of the meeting is closed.
8 That brings us to the first
9 case of the agenda, which is case number
10 ZBA10-003 for 1627 West Lake Drive, filed
11 by MJ Whelan Construction.
12 Petitioner is requesting a
13 modification of a previous variance to
14 allow demolition and reconstruction of a
15 new home on the existing footings at 1627
16 West Lake Drive.
17 The reconstruction requires a
18 modification of dimensional variances
19 approved in previous variance ZBA09-051,
20 to allow additions to an existing
21 residence on the site. Property is zoned
22 R-4 and is located south of Pontiac Trail
23 and east of West Park Drive.
24 Is the petitioner here?





15

1 MR. WHELAN: Yes.
2 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Please
3 state your name and address for the
4 record. And if you are not an attorney,
5 please raise your right hand and be sworn
6 in by the secretary.
7 MEMBER IBE: Please state your
8 full name.
9 MR. WHELAN: Yes, Matt Whelan,
10 620 North Main.
11 MEMBER IBE: Case No.
12 ZBA10-003. Do you affirm -- I'm sorry,
13 raise your right hand.
14 Do you affirm to tell the truth
15 in this case?
16 MR. WHELAN: Yes, I do.
17 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Proceed
18 with your presentation.
19 MR. WHELAN: I appreciate the
20 opportunity to come before the chairman
21 and board. What you have before you,
22 actually, we came to you as you stated,
23 60 days ago. And based on just further
24 looking into this project, we just felt





16

1 that it would be much better for the
2 homeowner to probably be a little bit
3 more aggressive in our demolition of the
4 existing structure than we first
5 anticipated.
6 And then talking with the
7 building department here, they felt that
8 it would be -- it would just be a good
9 idea to come before the board and
10 probably petition you to -- not to change
11 any of the variances that were already
12 approved or do anything different, just
13 for what is approved, the method in which
14 we move forward. To just exercise a
15 little better building facility there.
16 So, that's really all we are
17 asking the board to do is give us the
18 ability to freely take down what should
19 be taken down, to put back up what we'd
20 like to.
21 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Okay. You
22 are done then?
23 MR. WHELAN: Yes.
24 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Is there





17

1 anyone in the audience wishing to address
2 the board regarding this case?
3 Seeing none, will the secretary
4 please read any correspondence regarding
5 this case?
6 MEMBER IBE: There were 46
7 notices mailed in this case. Zero
8 responses, four mail return.
9 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Okay.
10 MR. WHELAN: Chairman, we did,
11 for some reason, receive at our office I
12 found out today a response from just
13 another neighbor that maybe you guys
14 would want. For some reason, it was
15 mailed to us.
16 MS. MARTIN: I'd like it for
17 the file, please.
18 MR. WHELAN: What's that?
19 MS. MARTIN: I would like it
20 for the file, please. Is it an approval,
21 or is it an objection?
22 MR. WHELAN: No, it's an
23 approval.
24 MEMBER IBE: Well, this is from





18

1 Haitham Semma of 1611 West Lake Drive,
2 dated 2/28/10.
3 It says, "I am Haitham Semma,
4 owner of 1611 West Lake Drive. I give
5 the approval for the application to allow
6 and demolition and reconstruction of a
7 new home on the existing footing at 1627
8 West Lake Drive."
9 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Okay.
10 All right. Does the building department
11 or city attorney wish to make any
12 comments at this time?
13 MS. KUDLA: No.
14 MR. BOULARD: I have not a
15 whole lot to add, other than what the
16 petitioner has mentioned.
17 The one thing I did look at
18 with regard to the previous minutes or
19 concerns when the board heard this case,
20 was looking at if there is ways to shift
21 the building on the site, based on
22 changes or configuration, based on the
23 changes in construction, and the fact
24 that it's going down to foundation and





19

1 being rebuilt. There doesn't seem to be
2 a lot of opportunity for that, and I
3 think the variances are pretty much the
4 same. So if you have any unanswered
5 questions.
6 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Thank you.
7 Okay. At this time, I will refer this
8 matter to the board for discussion. Who
9 wants to be first up? Mr. Ghannam.
10 MEMBER GHANNAM: Thank you. I
11 just have one question for the city.
12 What were the differences in the
13 variances we granted last time?
14 MR. BOULARD: The only -- there
15 are -- there are no differences from the
16 variances last time. The issue was that
17 the representation at the time the last
18 variance was granted was that these were
19 additions to an existing building. So
20 the existing high existing walls and so
21 on were there.
22 Since that time, the petitioner
23 has decided basically to demolish that
24 building in its entirety, with the





20

1 exception of foundations, which I
2 understand they found in good shape. And
3 so it's really a change in the
4 (unintelligible) conditions.
5 MEMBER GHANNAM: They are the
6 same variances, they are just building a
7 new structure?
8 MR. BOULARD: Yes, that's my
9 understanding.
10 MEMBER GHANNAM: Okay. I don't
11 have any problem with it, sir.
12 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Anybody
13 else? Member Sanghvi.
14 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you.
15 There is nothing substantial than has
16 already been approved before, and I don't
17 see any problem approving this one.
18 Thank you.
19 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Member
20 Cassis.
21 MEMBER CASSIS: Yeah, just
22 which -- what is that accessory building
23 that needs to be moved?
24 MR. BOULARD: I believe the





21

1 survey that was provided indicates that
2 there is a shed along along the one side
3 of the building towards the front.
4 Essentially, a non-conforming accessory
5 building. And my suggestion was -- I
6 believe it was part of the motion last
7 time was that --
8 MEMBER CASSIS: What was that
9 used for? I forgot.
10 MR. BOULARD: I believe it was
11 a storage shed. The petitioner can
12 explain.
13 MR. WHELAN: Yeah, it's just an
14 out -- just a shed. And I think based on
15 the last meeting here that the homeowner
16 did -- I think they did agree to just
17 remove that during this whole process.
18 MEMBER CASSIS: Okay.
19 MR. WHELAN: It will not be
20 there anymore.
21 MEMBER CASSIS: So the new
22 construction is going to be built on the
23 same foundation of that existing
24 structure?





22

1 MR. WHELAN: Yeah, absolutely.
2 We intend on leaving all the foundations
3 that are there, and then modifying
4 according to what was already approved.
5 MEMBER CASIS: All right.
6 That's all I have to say.
7 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
8 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Thank you.
9 Anybody else? Okay. I, myself, I have
10 no issue with this and would support it.
11 And that being said, and all
12 the board members having had an
13 opportunity to speak, I will entertain a
14 motion.
15 Member Ghannam.
16 MEMBER GHANNAM: Thank you. In
17 Case No. 10-003, for 1627 West Lake
18 Drive, I move that we approve the
19 variances as requested by the petitioner,
20 with the condition that the extra
21 structure, the shed, is going to be
22 removed for the -- on the basis of the
23 setback, frontage, height, bulk and
24 density requirements unreasonably prevent





23

1 the use of the property for the permitted
2 purpose.
3 The variance will provide
4 substantial justice to the petitioner and
5 surrounding property owners of the zoning
6 district. There are unique circumstances
7 to the property as we have seen in these
8 lot lakes -- lake lots, I should say.
9 The problem is not self-created.
10 Certainly there is adequate light and
11 air. There is no increase of fire danger
12 or public safety. Property values will
13 not be diminished in the surrounding
14 area, and the spirit of the zoning
15 ordinance will be observed.
16 MEMBER KRIEGER: Second.
17 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: We have a
18 motion by Ghannam, and second by Krieger.
19 Any other comments?
20 Ms. Martin, please call the
21 roll.
22 MS. MARTIN: Member Sanghvi?
23 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes.
24 MS. MARTIN: Member Cassis?





24

1 MEMBER CASSIS: Yes.
2 MS. MARTIN: Member Krieger?
3 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes.
4 MS. MARTIN: Member Ibe?
5 MEMBER IBE: Yes.
6 MS. MARTIN: Chairman Wrobel?
7 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Yes.
8 MS. MARTIN: Member Ghannam?
9 MEMBER GHANNAM: Yes.
10 MS. MARTIN: Member Skelcy?
11 MEMBER SKELCY: Yes.
12 MS. MARTIN: Motion passes.
13 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Okay.
14 Motion passes. You are all set.
15 MR. WHELAN: Thank you.
16 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: The next
17 case is case number ZBA10-004, 43800
18 Gen-Mar, CVS Pharmacy. Petitioner is
19 requesting variances to allow location of
20 an accessory structure in the side
21 setback, and a waiver of the rooftop
22 equipment screening request for piping.
23 Property is zoned I-1, and
24 located north of Ten Mile Road and west





25

1 of Novi Road.
2 Is the petitioner here?
3 MEMBER CASSIS: Mr. Chairman.
4 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Yes,
5 Mr. Cassis.
6 MEMBER CASSIS: As a member of
7 the planning commission, I had the
8 opportunity to deliberate on this case.
9 And according to the rules, I must recuse
10 myself, so the board wishes.
11 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Okay.
12 Counsel, do you agree?
13 MS. KUDLA: Yes.
14 MEMBER GHANNAM: I will move to
15 recuse Member Cassis.
16 MEMBER SANGHVI: Second.
17 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: It's been
18 moved and seconded. Voice vote on this?
19 MS. KUDLA: Voice vote on
20 this.
21 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Okay.
22 Voice vote. All in favor of letting
23 Mr. Cassis not take part in this
24 discussion, please signify by saying aye.





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1 BOARD MEMBERS: Aye.
2 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: All
3 opposed?
4 For this case then, Member
5 Gedeon will be voting.
6 The petitioner may come down
7 now. State your name and address for the
8 record, and if you are not an attorney,
9 please raise your right hand and be sworn
10 in.
11 MR. HAWKINSON: My name is
12 Jamie Hawkinson (ph) with CVS Pharmacy,
13 located at 43800 Gen-Mar Drive.
14 MEMBER IBE: Case No.
15 ZBA10-004, do you swear or affirm to tell
16 the truth?
17 MR. HAWKINSON: I do.
18 MEMBER IBE: Thank you.
19 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Please
20 proceed.
21 MR. HAWKINSON: Yes. What we
22 are looking to do is request a variance
23 for one location of air rotation system
24 to be located on the side of the yard





27

1 versus the rear. The reason for the
2 request is for the unit to be placed
3 furthest from residential to impose any
4 possible problems.
5 And the choice of the location
6 was chosen because of the efficiency with
7 three air rotation units being installed
8 for peak performance. It would actually
9 be optimal to have it in the center
10 versus the rear of the yard.
11 The second, I believe all you
12 should have some updated photos, is the
13 request of some type of screening, not
14 too sure what we would be able to do that
15 would create more of an obstruction, I
16 would call it. If you can see towards
17 the -- photos towards the back, we
18 actually went today and made a few
19 modifications as far as, you know,
20 shading it the color black, if that would
21 (unintelligible.)
22 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Anything
23 else?
24 MR. HAWKINSON: I'm not too





28

1 sure, the air rotation system, just for
2 everyone's knowledge, during the hot
3 climate days would be able to provide
4 comfort for our associates. Currently,
5 inside the warehouse, any time you get
6 temperatures above 80 plus degrees, it
7 starts becoming what we consider
8 unbearable conditions for associates to
9 work. So our choice as an owner is to be
10 able to put in some type of cooling
11 system or comfort system to be able to,
12 you know, surpass those needs with the
13 current restrictions that we have with
14 our back wall fans.
15 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Okay.
16 All right. Thank you.
17 MR. HAWKINSON: Thank you.
18 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Is there
19 anyone in the audience wishing to address
20 the board regarding this case at this
21 time?
22 Seeing none, will the secretary
23 read any correspondence regarding this
24 case into the record?





29

1 MEMBER IBE: Thank you,
2 Mr. Chairman.
3 There was 60 notices mailed
4 out: Two objections, one approval and
5 two mail returned.
6 First, I will go to the
7 approvals, since there's one approval.
8 That was an approval from a gentleman
9 named -- well, a company named Gen-Mar
10 Properties, LLC, 2424 Cathy Lane, in
11 Novi, dated 3/4/2010.
12 The first objection is from Don
13 and Pam Van Dast of 25887 Junction, Novi.
14 And it reads, "Another excuse
15 to add more noise and a stick it in the
16 face of the homeowners. History tells us
17 what kind of neighbors they are now and
18 will be in the future. A warehouse
19 becomes a distribution center, becomes
20 what?"
21 And the second objection is
22 from Nancy and George Mitts of 43999
23 Stassen, Novi Heights Association.
24 And it reads, "Dear Novi. I am





30

1 writing once again to bring to the light
2 the issues of CVS. It took Novi five
3 years and legal proceedings to get the
4 attached consent judgment against CVS and
5 their noise into abutting residential.
6 "Please note attached, they are
7 also asking the DNR to destroy remaining
8 wetlands, which they said they would
9 never do again, to build more parking and
10 utilize more trucks.
11 "Special land use, not a
12 chance. They have outgrown their use for
13 this land. Let them finally see it.
14 Years ago they portrayed this warehouse
15 and overflow, just merchandise would be
16 housed. They would not use it much, fine
17 for light industrial, not a full-fledged
18 industrial site. They have rail service
19 to the building; let them use that.
20 "It took years to stop the
21 noise and vibration with a consent
22 judgment. What will they be housing with
23 huge chillers and rotation units? Will
24 it be perishable goods? They told





31

1 residents only non-perishable goods would
2 be there; you have nothing to worry
3 about. This is not supposed to be a cold
4 storage locker.
5 "The consent judgment says no
6 noise and zero noise coming from the land
7 and building from six p.m. to six a.m. in
8 the morning. They would need to
9 soundproof the unit. They are asking to
10 destroy wetlands; did they tell you that?
11 "We hear hi-lo's, music and
12 even the intercom at night from the area
13 where the huge west side fans are. These
14 are holes in the wall. They need to wall
15 up the fans so no noise, zero noise at
16 night. Come to the aid of abutting
17 residential and the wetlands which house
18 deer and deny them this use.
19 "If you grant them this land
20 use, you will be assured there will be no
21 noise or vibration heard or felt from the
22 warehouse. Also, no food items stored,
23 no odors from the building, and to stop
24 the fans permanently dismantled and the





32

1 west side of the building finally closed
2 up as it should have been built. The
3 noise from the chiller and rotation unit
4 coming through the fan louvers will be
5 constant. When we attended the planning
6 commission years ago upon the first
7 mention of them building this addition,
8 the plans were in the lobby and the west
9 side was completely closed up. This won
10 our approval. When the building went up,
11 the huge fans running top speed were put
12 in. No one knows how it happened, but it
13 did, and here we are, consent judgment
14 and all these years later, still having
15 issues with CVS.
16 "The emergency lane that CVS is
17 using as a second drive for trucks
18 abutting residential needs to be changed
19 to emergency vehicles only. That is what
20 it is only supposed to be used for, but
21 what is posted is allowing truck traffic.
22 They are using it as a circular driveway.
23 If not the judgment stands and no new
24 noise from land and building CVS.





33

1 "We have spent too many years
2 getting what little peace we have from
3 them. They never comply once CVS gets
4 their way. Don't let this happen again.
5 "The way I understand huge
6 chillers work, and these are not normal
7 chillers; they are huge. They are turned
8 on at night, cool a building," and then I
9 guess she meant, "and in the morning the
10 rotation unit kicks in.
11 "No noise from six p.m. to six
12 a.m., this is the consent judgment. It
13 does not matter if they are on the
14 east" -- strike that. "It does not
15 matter if they are on the east. We still
16 hear their noise over there. A unit 888
17 square foot is the size of a home. Don't
18 tell us CVS will not be making more
19 noise. Under a blanket of special land
20 use, they will do anything they want.
21 Just watch them.
22 "They represented to us this
23 was a simple warehouse and only a few
24 people would be working over there, no





34

1 noise. What a laugh.
2 "Why a huge chiller unit? Let
3 CVS put a quiet air conditioner unit on
4 the east side, if all they need to do is
5 cool the building. Not a chiller unit
6 running into the night and all day.
7 "Special land use, they need to
8 move. This is a neighborhood they moved
9 into, not a refrigerated warehouse area.
10 Step by step they are taking it beyond
11 light industrial.
12 "The building department says
13 it might cut down on the fan noise. Not
14 good enough. We need more than verbal
15 reassurances at this time. Show us a
16 location that has a chiller unit this
17 big. Let us hear it and see its effects.
18 I will bet it is not located by abutting
19 residential. It should be the same
20 manufacturer and maintenance on belts and
21 motors scheduled and properly maintained.
22 "We need to sit down with CVS
23 and the officials at Novi and get in
24 writing the assurances we need for





35

1 abutting residential. We thought the
2 council meeting minutes could hold them
3 to their words last time, but CVS knew
4 that was not the case, and did create
5 more noise and vibration than was
6 promised.
7 "I am sure you have gone to
8 seminars addressing vibration noises
9 coming from buildings and the effects on
10 residents. With all the new data, please
11 do not do more to us. I am getting too
12 old to go through this again. If you can
13 cut out the noise and vibration, then get
14 it in writing, no more messing around
15 with verbal.
16 "The council meeting minutes
17 could not hold CVS to their words last
18 time. Novi had to take them to court.
19 We need the fans shut down and the holes
20 bricked shut. The citizens of Novi do
21 not need to pay for another consent
22 judgment against CVS, and the press does
23 not need to hear about another waste of
24 money that CVS will put us through when





36

1 it can be stopped now.
2 "Please investigate and
3 consider the reason a chiller unit that
4 huge is needed. Air condition units
5 belong to a light industrial operation,
6 but chiller units that size belong beyond
7 light industrial. What are they housing
8 that is beyond light industrial? Do not
9 give them everything they always ask for
10 at our expense. This project should need
11 our full cooperation and your
12 investigation of the situation not like
13 last time.
14 "Help us. Do not give them a
15 blanket approval. You do not remember
16 how many meetings this said," and she
17 quotes, "'We won't take any more
18 wetlands; we will limit our trucks to
19 what we have now.' I have meeting
20 minutes that represent those words; I
21 would have to locate them. But now they
22 want to destroy all the wetlands back
23 there and put more trucks on their
24 location. Please take seriously our





37

1 stand on wetland protection in Novi. We
2 are on wells.
3 "When will Novi say to CVS you
4 are no longer light industrial and no
5 longer belong in abutting residential?
6 Mr. Helwig and Savan had told us if they
7 ever go for special land, that is when
8 CVS will have gone too far and no longer
9 belong by abutting residential. That is
10 when we can deny use, limit noise.
11 "I know how this sounds, and I
12 am sorry for burdening you with citizens'
13 problems. When CVS wanted to move in, no
14 problem. We had no history with them.
15 Now there is history and past practice.
16 Light industry does not take more and
17 more wetlands, and put chiller units in.
18 Please help us.
19 "A few years ago when CVS went
20 to the zoning board for special variance
21 to erect a sign, after they already
22 erected it. Yes, once again they did as
23 they pleased, but got caught. The zoning
24 commission told CVS they had an unhappy





38

1 neighbor and please contact her to
2 discuss the problems. That was five
3 years ago. At the meeting they said,
4 yes, of course, telling the commission
5 anything they wanted to hear. There was
6 never a word from them even though the
7 zoning board gave them our phone number.
8 Now after the judgment I prefer never to
9 speak to them again.
10 "Novi inspectors believe it
11 will cut down on fan noise. Not good
12 enough. We have been there before. The
13 abutting residential needs guarantees and
14 research and written recourse if it turns
15 out bad for the residents again.
16 "Cutting costs and saving money
17 is important in this environment, but not
18 at the expense of the wild life and
19 residents. Please help us. Remember,
20 they are simultaneously asking to build a
21 parking lot for more and more trucks on
22 wetlands. That was not mentioned in the
23 application to you, was it? They are
24 using back doors trying to get one thing





39

1 in order to build on another project.
2 "Do not let this go through
3 without taking us in consideration."
4 Signed Nancy Mitts.
5 And that's the objection.
6 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Okay.
7 Does the building department or city
8 attorney wish to make any comments at
9 this time?
10 MR. BOULARD: If I may, just a
11 couple comments. I believe that the
12 letter, the Mitts' objection is the same
13 one that went to planning commission, and
14 planning commission saw this for a
15 special use. But I'd like to just
16 clarify the parts of the project that are
17 before the board tonight.
18 One is installation of the
19 cooling tower or the chiller unit on the
20 east side of the building that's shown on
21 your -- on the drawings that you have in
22 front of you. And that's the one
23 variance. The zoning ordinance would
24 require that to be placed on the north





40

1 end or rear of the building in the rear
2 yard. The homes, residential area, is to
3 the west. And so the proposed location
4 is actually the building between the
5 proposed chiller and the residences.
6 The second request is for some
7 roof top piping. The zoning ordinance
8 would typically require that to be
9 screened. In this particular case, you
10 know, the question is whether, at least
11 in my mind, is what would be more
12 egregious, having the piping there or
13 having the screening. I did note that
14 the piping was visible from the adjacent
15 roads, in this case, Novi Road, by the
16 Main Street area, and brought that up
17 that it was fairly visible.
18 One of the things that I think
19 the petitioner would -- provided pictures
20 of, say, look, there is some options. So
21 just for the sake of discussions, they
22 brought that up.
23 Mark Spencer is here; he was
24 present at the planning commission and





41

1 can fill you in on requirements for noise
2 study and things like that that came from
3 that area, if you have any questions.
4 With that, he would be happy to answer
5 any questions, but I would probably defer
6 to Mark.
7 MS. KUDLA: The mention of the
8 consent judgment, I just wanted to add
9 it's my understanding those terms were
10 reviewed during the special land use, and
11 they have already been considered.
12 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL:
13 Mr. Spencer, do you care to add anything
14 to the proceeding at this time?
15 MR. SPENCER: I will give you a
16 couple quick comments. Just as Charles
17 mentioned, consideration about the
18 wetlands that was mentioned in the
19 neighbor's letter is not a consideration
20 for you tonight. The applicant has
21 applied to the State of Michigan for
22 wetland permit, but the applicant has not
23 applied to the city for a city wetland
24 permit, which they would need.





42

1 There is also a city
2 conservation easement on the part of this
3 wetland that would have to be rescinded
4 to be able to work on it, and there is no
5 additional parking lot improvements
6 proposed at this time.
7 We agree with the applicant on
8 applying for a variance for the rooftop
9 equipment. And it was the planning
10 department's opinion that this was a lot
11 less intrusive to see a six-foot pipe at
12 five foot above the roof line, than to
13 put up a sheet metal screen wall the
14 length of the building, basically this
15 would be, the entire length of the
16 building.
17 And we agree with what was
18 mentioned on the sound issues, that
19 adding two building walls to separate it
20 would buffer the sound a lot more than
21 putting it on in the rear yard. So, we
22 agreed with, and had recommended that
23 location there.
24 So, if you got any other





43

1 questions on it, I will be glad to help
2 you with that.
3 Also, the planning commission
4 is requiring as a condition of final site
5 plan approval this middle and full noise
6 analysis. (Unintelligible) did submit a
7 noise impact statement. We agree --
8 staff agreed with the methodology of
9 that; it looked reasonable. But the
10 planning commission asked for them to
11 produce the full study, so they hired a
12 noise engineer already.
13 And as our attorney mentioned,
14 they will have to comply with the consent
15 judgment. They have specific terms about
16 adding to noise coming from the building,
17 and they will be held to that, so.
18 We and the planning staff feels
19 comfortable with that, and the planning
20 commission added reference to that in
21 their approval at the special land use
22 permit.
23 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Okay.
24 Thank you.





44

1 MEMBER GHANNAM: I just have a
2 question.
3 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Member
4 Ghannam.
5 MEMBER GHANNAM: So from the
6 perspective of the planning commission,
7 these two requests are the lesser of two
8 evils, correct? In terms of the location
9 of the piping as well as screening as
10 opposed to middle screening?
11 MR. SPENCER: Yes, we felt it
12 was a better location. We could have
13 told the applicant right away, put it in
14 the back yard. You wouldn't need a
15 variance; the planning commission could
16 have approved it back there. But because
17 of it being a special land use and noise
18 issues coming up, that was a lot better
19 location.
20 This piece of property was in
21 an I-1 district and not adjacent to
22 residential. Accessory structures like
23 this go up all the time without going to
24 the planning commission. So in this





45

1 case, because they are next to
2 residential, it's a special land use for
3 accessory structures.
4 MEMBER GHANNAM: Thank you.
5 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Member
6 Krieger.
7 MEMBER KRIEGER: The chiller
8 unit versus a different means of air
9 conditioning as the petitioner asked for,
10 the differences in noise levels and the
11 rationale for using it for air
12 conditioning for employees versus future
13 refrigeration of things.
14 MR. SPENCER: We are not aware
15 and we do not have any permits as far as
16 even building permits that this cooler
17 would be used for refrigeration. This is
18 a 400-ton air conditioner basically. And
19 when comparing that to a five-ton
20 residential air conditioning, it sounds
21 like the appropriate size for a 450,000
22 square-foot building.
23 MEMBER KRIEGER: Okay.
24 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Any other





46

1 questions? Member Skelcy.
2 MEMBER SKELCY: I'm going to
3 assume, because I'm not very familiar
4 with chillers and the piping, that the
5 piping doesn't create any kind of noise
6 or clanging.
7 MR. SPENCER: No. The
8 manufacturer's specifications for
9 installing it, and assuming it was
10 installed to their specifications as a
11 gasket-type system, where it goes through
12 a roof, and it appears to be. I don't
13 believe there would be any vibration from
14 it.
15 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Any other
16 questions?
17 MEMBER SANGHVI: No.
18 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Thank you,
19 Mr. Spencer.
20 I will open up the general
21 comments from the board.
22 Member Sanghvi.
23 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you,
24 Mr. Chair. Question about wetland, I





47

1 think this is beyond our scope this
2 evening. Talking about wetlands is not
3 what we are concerned about tonight.
4 And as far as the site of the
5 chilling unit, if you put it as it is
6 required, that is cure is worse than the
7 disease. The same would be true for the
8 skirting for the piping, also, because
9 that would be far more obtrusive than
10 piping, which you can barely see. And so
11 from my perspective, this is the best way
12 to go in providing cooling effect for the
13 building. And I vote -- I have no
14 difficulty in supporting this question.
15 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Thank you,
16 Member Sanghvi. Anybody else?
17 Okay. Seeing that the board
18 members had the opportunity to speak, I
19 will add my comments.
20 I have one question for the
21 applicant. If I recall correctly, the
22 height of the pipes is 63 inches?
23 MR. HAWKINSON: That's correct.
24 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Can it be





48

1 lower, closer to the roof?
2 MR. HAWKINSON: I would say
3 yes, but not an easy way. When the
4 contractor was selected to do the job, us
5 and the owners assumed they went through
6 all the proper procedures. And I would
7 say half-way, three-quarters of the way
8 through the project, we were informed
9 that there were inadequate things that
10 were done on the contractor side, so
11 that's why that point the project was
12 halted, and we proceeded to, you know,
13 come to the board meetings and to resolve
14 the issue.
15 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Not being
16 a heating and cooling engineer, why does
17 it have to be that height? Why is it
18 that height?
19 MR. HAWKINSON: The reason for
20 the height is one for the parapit between
21 the two buildings. You have one side of
22 the addition that was put in in 1985, and
23 the other addition put in 1995. And for
24 the height to be able to parapit, it





49

1 ended up being -- it's pretty much as low
2 as they can go across the two facilities.
3 The reason for the roof instead of the
4 inside of the facilities, because it's
5 stronger for a support system to sit over
6 column beams than it is to be hung.
7 Inside the facility, if you have ever
8 been inside, we have (unintelligible) and
9 piping unfortunately would sit down much
10 lower into hi-lo traffic.
11 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Thank
12 you. With that, I will entertain a
13 motion. Charles?
14 MR. BOULARD: If I could. One,
15 as I understand it, there is also a need
16 for the pipe to pitch.
17 MR. HAWKINSON: That is
18 correct. The system requires not as many
19 bends or valleys; it's what they call
20 trapment. So, yeah, for efficiency of
21 the system, what it has to do is elevate
22 from a certain level and pitch all the
23 way down actually to connect to the
24 chiller unit.





50

1 MR. BOULARD: If I could add,
2 one of the things that you forwarded,
3 photographs today of the piping painted
4 out.
5 MR. HAWKINSON: Yeah.
6 MR. BOULARD: And so if there
7 was -- if that was part of what was
8 recommended or approved by the board, if
9 we could just be clear so these folks
10 know what the expectations are.
11 MR. HAWKSINSON: Sure.
12 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Anyone for
13 a motion?
14 MEMBER SANGHVI: I will make a
15 motion.
16 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL:
17 Mr. Sanghvi, go ahead.
18 MEMBER SANGHVI: Case No.
19 10-004, 43800 Gen-Mar, CVS Pharmacy. I
20 move that we grant the request of the
21 petitioner, taking into consideration the
22 alternate of putting the chilling unit in
23 the rear, and I believe that site much
24 more preferable. And, also, providing





51

1 the screening for the piping will be far
2 more pleasing than leaving them where
3 they are. And the variance will not
4 pro-create -- this is not a self-created
5 problem. There is adequate light and air
6 is provided to all adjacent property.
7 There is no increase of fire danger or
8 public safety. And the spirit of the
9 zoning ordinance is observed.
10 MEMBER GHANNAM: Second.
11 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: We have a
12 motion by Member Sanghvi, and a
13 second by Member Ghannam.
14 Any discussion?
15 MEMBER SKELCY: Should we
16 include the fact we want it painted black
17 as part of the motion?
18 MS. KUDLA: Is that a planning
19 commission requirement?
20 MR. BOULARD: I don't believe
21 that was added, is that correct?
22 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Do we add
23 that?
24 MEMBER SKELCY: We need to add





52

1 that to amend the motion to include the
2 fact that we would like the piping to be
3 painted black as it was shown in your
4 proposal.
5 MEMBER SANGHVI: I don't think
6 it makes a difference one way or the
7 other. If you like it, go ahead and put
8 it in. I have no problem.
9 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: It's okay,
10 Member Sanghvi and Member Ghannam?
11 MEMBER GHANNAM: I accept,
12 also.
13 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Any other
14 comment or questions? If not,
15 Ms. Martin, please call the roll.
16 MS. MARTIN: Member Sanghvi?
17 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes.
18 MS. MARTIN: Member Krieger?
19 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes.
20 MS. MARTIN: Member Ibe?
21 MEMBER IBE: Yes.
22 MS. MARTIN: Chairman Wrobel?
23 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Yes.
24 MS. MARTIN: Member Ghannam?





53

1 MEMBER GHANNAM: Yes.
2 MS. MARTIN: Member Skelcy?
3 MEMBER SKELCY: Yes.
4 MS. MARTIN: Member Gedeon?
5 MEMBER GEDEON: Yes.
6 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: The motion
7 passes, and you have been approved.
8 I will have Member Cassis
9 returning. Here he comes.
10 Okay. The final case of the
11 evening is case number ZBA10-005, 27790
12 Novi Road, Hotel Baronette.
13 Petitioner is requesting a
14 variance to allow installation of a 7.5
15 square foot drive identification sign on
16 the south driveway entrance, and four
17 additional wall signs as follows: 82.18
18 square feet on the east elevation, a
19 32.42 square foot on the north elevation,
20 26.57 square feet on the east elevation,
21 and 24.27 square feet on the west
22 elevation of the building located at
23 27790 Novi Road.
24 The property is zoned RC, and





54

1 is located east of Novi Road and south of
2 Twelve Mile Road.
3 Is the petitioner here?
4 MR. WHITKINS: Yes, sir. Good
5 evening. My name is Steven Whitkins
6 (ph). Office address is 2510 Carey
7 Street, Suite 102, Lansing, Michigan.
8 And I am not an attorney.
9 MEMBER IBE: Sir, in Case No.
10 ZBA10-005, do you swear or affirm to tell
11 the truth?
12 MR. WHITKINS: I do.
13 MEMBER IBE: Thank you.
14 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Thank
15 you.
16 MR. WHITKINS: One point of
17 clarification, when we read this, the
18 82.18 square foot sign is actually on the
19 south elevation of the building, not the
20 east. Just to bring that up.
21 As many of you probably know,
22 we are undergoing a renovation and
23 conversion to a Marriott Renaissance
24 Hotel. As part of that process, Marriott





55

1 has requested that we install an
2 architectural iconic element on the
3 building.
4 When the building was
5 originally built, it looks like an office
6 building and not much like a hotel. The
7 majority of our customers come from
8 outside the area. Many of them are
9 international guests that fly in. Many
10 of them are there for the first time or
11 very seldom do they come there.
12 To start with, the signs that
13 we got, the seven-and-a-half square foot
14 drive sign will be installed on the
15 finger road. We have approval from the
16 City of Novi and from the Taubman Group
17 at Twelve Oaks Mall to install a cut in
18 the finger road going into the mall, so
19 they don't have to go down one of the
20 ring roads and come in. That will be a
21 new entrance sign. And the signs that
22 were already approved at the other two
23 drives would be re-done, and they would
24 all be matching. So that would provide





56

1 people with the identification to use
2 that sign to enter the property without
3 having to go all the way down to the ring
4 road.
5 As for the four additional wall
6 signs, the 82.18 square foot sign to the
7 south, what happens when you are driving
8 up Twelve Mile -- when you are driving up
9 Novi Road, which is now seven lanes wide
10 in front of the hotel, this provides
11 identification from the south to know
12 that you need to turn at the finger road.
13 We have no direct access from Novi Road;
14 all of our access comes off the finger
15 road or the ring road of the mall. It
16 allows people from out of town to
17 identify the hotel as a Renaissance
18 Hotel, which is part of the Marriott
19 chain. And they have an international
20 website that drives a lot of business.
21 Sign K, which faces to the
22 north side and is located on the iconic
23 element, allows people from Twelve Mile
24 Road to understand they need to get into





57

1 the left-turn lane to make the turn into
2 the finger road there at the left-turn
3 light where that is located. If you end
4 up coming off Twelve Mile Road, and you
5 are on the right-hand side, you have to
6 cross four lanes of traffic to get to the
7 left-turn lane.
8 As many of you know, there has
9 been quite a bit of road construction at
10 Novi Road and I-96, and I think all of
11 next year all the traffic coming to the
12 property off of the highway interchange
13 system will probably be driven up M-5 and
14 off Beck Road up to Twelve Mile Road and
15 have to come south on Novi Road to get to
16 the property. So there will be quite a
17 few people trying to find and locate the
18 hotel, because my understanding is that
19 the exit ramps from I-96 are going to be
20 closed this summer for reconstruction.
21 Plus, we do have a lot of
22 traffic that comes off from Twelve Mile
23 Road, which is a four-lane road and
24 serves a lot of the office buildings,





58

1 engineering companies and automotive
2 companies we do business with up in that
3 area.
4 Sign K, Sign L, which faces to
5 the west is the Baronette sign that would
6 be located on -- there is a metal panel
7 being installed on the building. We did
8 receive our approval for our facade
9 review for our architectural iconic
10 element the other day. One of the things
11 we want to do as well as the Renaissance
12 name, we felt it was very important to
13 retain the heritage of the Baronette that
14 it's known here. Marriott has continued
15 to allow us to continue to use that name,
16 and that's where that sign would be
17 located. The Baronette sign would be
18 located there as well as on the entrance
19 signs to the property.
20 The last sign is sign H, which
21 is on the east side of the building. We
22 are going to have a new restaurant that's
23 under construction right now called
24 Toasted Oak Grill and Market. It will





59

1 have its own separate side street
2 entrance, so to speak, on the east side
3 of the building. And that would go over
4 the vestibule, which is now under
5 construction; we started construction on
6 that the other day.
7 I would be happy to answer any
8 questions that you might have.
9 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Thank you.
10 Is there anyone in the audience wishing
11 to address the board regarding this case?
12 Seeing none, will the secretary
13 read any correspondence regarding this
14 case?
15 MEMBER IBE: Yes, Mr. Chair.
16 There were 23 notices mailed, zero
17 responses, three mail returned.
18 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Does the
19 building department or city attorney wish
20 to make any comments?
21 MS. KUDLA: No.
22 MR. BOULARD: Nothing to add.
23 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Okay.
24 Thank you. At this time, I will turn





60

1 this matter over to the board for
2 discussion.
3 Member Ibe.
4 MEMBER IBE: Mr. Chair, I
5 really don't have any questions. I want
6 to congratulate the applicants for the
7 good work they are doing. It appears as
8 if when the construction is finally
9 finished, I am looking forward to coming
10 there, and I have no problem with this.
11 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Thank you.
12 Member Cassis.
13 MEMBER CASSIS: Thank you,
14 Mr. Chairman. Just to make sense for me,
15 as much as I have looked where every sign
16 is located, I just wanted to ask the
17 applicant what each one of those, A and E
18 and C and so on. I presume those are the
19 locations of each one of those signs.
20 MR. WHITKINS: Yes, sir. On
21 the site plan, yes, sir. As they relate
22 to the signs that are attached.
23 MEMBER CASSIS: You asking for
24 two, four, six, eight signs?





61

1 MR. WHITKINS: Three of those
2 signs are directional signs at the
3 entrances from the finger road and the
4 ring road.
5 MEMBER CASSIS: Okay. Can you
6 designate to me -- I'm just trying to
7 make sense here. Which ones are the
8 direction?
9 MR. WHITKINS: Which one are --
10 MEMBER CASSIS: The directional
11 signs.
12 MR. WHITKINS: That would be
13 sign D.
14 MEMBER CASSIS: In letters.
15 MR. WHITKINS: Sign D, which is
16 down by where the Verizon and Hagopian
17 driveway is. There is currently a Hotel
18 Baronette sign there currently. That's
19 just being replaced with a new sign;
20 there is no variance requested.
21 MEMBER CASSIS: How large is
22 that sign?
23 MR. WHITKINS: That sign is
24 seven-and-a-half feet. And I believe in





62

1 1991 a variance was granted to allow for
2 the placement of a seven-and-a-half foot
3 sign, and that is under board of appeals
4 case 9155-A. So that's seven-and-a-half
5 feet.
6 I believe, if you look at your
7 drawing, you will see on the -- on page
8 two of -- page two of eight of the sign
9 drawings, you see C, D and F, the
10 elevation of -- did you receive that, or
11 not? And you may --
12 I've got a copy here I can
13 share with you. You are like me, I got
14 way too many papers. Here you go. This
15 is the directional sign.
16 MEMBER CASSIS: This one
17 here, right here?
18 MR. WHITKINS: Yeah, C, D and
19 F.
20 MEMBER CASSIS: That's what I'm
21 looking at. The present sign right now
22 is the same size?
23 MR. WHITKINS: D and C, they
24 were both -- I don't know if it's





63

1 seven-and-a-half square feet. It was
2 approved for seven-and-a-half square
3 feet. When you take the base and
4 everything and the illuminated box, it's
5 seven-and-a-half square feet.
6 MEMBER CASSIS: Okay. Now, C
7 is the one that you want the people in
8 the mall to see, is that it?
9 MR. WHITKINS: C and D are --
10 this is sign D right here down by the
11 Hagopian store; there is currently a sign
12 there right now.
13 MEMBER CASSIS: Yeah.
14 MR. WHITKINS: We are replacing
15 the signs; I think they are 19 years
16 old.
17 MEMBER CASSIS: Okay.
18 MR. WHITKINS: They are ready
19 to be replaced. Sign C, there is
20 currently a sign here at location C,
21 which is the cut-off of the ring road,
22 also, that's there currently. And there
23 is currently already a directional sign
24 there.





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1 MEMBER CASSIS: That's meant
2 for the mall people, is that it?
3 MR. WHITKINS: That's meant for
4 anybody using the ring road to enter the
5 property.
6 MEMBER CASSIS: Yeah.
7 MR. WHITKINS: That's an
8 entrance to drive to the property.
9 MEMBER CASSIS: Yeah, but that
10 is into the mall, isn't it?
11 MR. WHITKINS: All of our
12 entrances to the property are off the
13 ring road right now. We do have an
14 approval to put a cut through the finger
15 road. And the sign we are requesting the
16 variance for is directional sign F.
17 MEMBER CASSIS: Okay.
18 MR. WHITKINS: By code we are
19 allowed I believe a three square foot
20 sign there. What we are doing is we are
21 doing a seven-and-a-half square foot sign
22 which matches the two seven-and-a-half
23 square foot signs that were previously
24 approved at the other two entrances in





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1 1991.
2 If you look at F, this location
3 right here, this is where the new --
4 there will be a cut in this finger road
5 to make a left turn into the hotel
6 without going all the way down to the
7 three-way stop at the ring road, making
8 another left turn.
9 MEMBER CASSIS: Isn't there a
10 median there?
11 MR. WHITKINS: Yes, but we got
12 approval from Taubman Group and City of
13 Novi to install a left-turn lane.
14 MEMBER CASSIS: Oh.
15 MR. WHITKINS: So it allows a
16 little easier access to the hotel for the
17 guests coming in, because, otherwise, now
18 you have to go down and turn left. When
19 they re-did the ring road, I don't know
20 if you noticed, they stripe the roadway
21 and put yellow stripes so it almost looks
22 like you can't cross the yellow stripes
23 to enter the first drive. You drive down
24 and pass Hagopian, and you are already





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1 down to Verizon before you think you can
2 turn into the property. It becomes very
3 difficult. So that's the F sign
4 directional.
5 MEMBER CASSIS: And the
6 engineer of the city approved of that
7 left-turn lane?
8 MR. WHITKINS: Yes, sir, that's
9 all been approved.
10 MEMBER CASSIS: Then E and H
11 are just in front of the building, is
12 that it?
13 MR. WHITKINS: Yes, E and H --
14 now you got me -- E, there is
15 currently --
16 MEMBER CASSIS: H.
17 MR. WHITKINS: There is
18 currently a Hotel Baronette sign up there
19 on the parapit wall. What we are doing
20 is that is going to be reconfigured; it's
21 going to say "R" Renaissance. There is
22 no variance being requested for that, but
23 since we have the entrance -- as you see
24 in elevation H, if you remember when the





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1 Hotel Baronette was built, this was the
2 entrance to the bakery that was there.
3 We are re-opening that entry for the
4 restaurant, because we have a number of
5 people that eat that don't necessarily
6 stay at the hotel. We do a lot of
7 business with local businesses, local
8 people. And the Toasted Oak Grill and
9 Market will be the name of the new
10 restaurant. This is -- the vestibule is
11 under construction, and that's a sign to
12 identify that entrance to that business.
13 MEMBER CASSIS: E is --
14 MR. WHITKINS: E is the --
15 there is really no variance requested.
16 That sign is already permitted by right
17 there, and it's the -- I think if you
18 look at it, instead of saying
19 "Baronette," it says "R Renaissance,"
20 which is the Marriott brand hotel that
21 the franchise is under.
22 MEMBER CASSIS: You really need
23 the R to say Renaissance, and also need
24 Toasted Oak.





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1 MR. WHITKINS: Two distinct
2 businesses there: One is a restaurant,
3 and one is a hotel.
4 MEMBER CASSIS: All right.
5 Well, you know, I guess there is a reason
6 for every one of those, but I have never
7 seen so many signs.
8 MR. WHITKINS: One of the
9 things I'd like to explain is the type of
10 signs we are using, the letters are LED,
11 back-lit letters. So during the day they
12 are brown, and at night the LED light
13 shines through them. The actual square
14 footage of illumination at night is much
15 less, and much less than what's currently
16 -- especially on the front of the
17 building. I don't have the exact square
18 footage, just what the letters are.
19 If you are familiar with the
20 Twelve Oaks letters, at night just the
21 letters shine out white on the dark
22 background. That's the same way our
23 signs will work. And they are all LED,
24 very energy efficient, long-standing





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1 light bulbs, and all that. What happens
2 is it's a very much more elegant sign,
3 much more keeping with the upscale Twelve
4 Oaks Mall and the hotel.
5 MEMBER CASSIS: I can see these
6 are very well done signs, but the issue
7 is never seen so many signs. Even the
8 one we entertained for -- what was the
9 name of it, couple of months ago, the
10 hotel.
11 MEMBER KRIEGER: The one across
12 the street, Crown Plaza.
13 MEMBER CASSIS: Yeah.
14 MR. WHITKINS: One of the
15 things that's unique about our property,
16 we have 270 degrees. We have frontage on
17 the finger road, we have frontage on the
18 ring road, we have frontage on Novi Road.
19 We have a seven-lane road with a very
20 short span from Twelve Mile Road from
21 that.
22 MEMBER CASSIS: I know, but how
23 many signs can you put to identify hotel?
24 What is it, Renaissance now. You are





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1 also getting people that are referred to
2 you over the internet, so on and so
3 forth.
4 MR. WHITKINS: So what happens,
5 you got people that are very unfamiliar
6 with the area, looking for the turn,
7 trying to identify the building, and in
8 an area of traffic that's seven lanes
9 wide. And you have to make a three-lane
10 maneuver. So the better we can identify
11 that, the safer it makes it for those
12 guests to get into the building safely.
13 MEMBER CASSIS: Mr. Chairman, I
14 guess my task here was hopefully to try
15 to identify some of these for myself and
16 for those of us that need it; maybe
17 nobody did. I would wait for my
18 colleagues to see what their opinions
19 are. To me, there is just too many signs
20 here, and I haven't zeroed in on which
21 ones could be dispensed with.
22 Thank you very much, Mr.
23 Chairman.
24 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Thank you,





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1 Mr. Cassis. Next? Member Sanghvi.
2 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you,
3 Mr. Chairman. I have been looked at
4 every single sign they are proposing to
5 erect. And I have been in this area for
6 a long time, and if you don't come from
7 Novi, it's really hard to find Baronette
8 Hotel at any entrance, unless you know it
9 is through the mall. And the direction
10 of signs go to that place are as
11 important as the big signs to identify
12 the building. Even if you identify the
13 building, if you don't know how to get
14 there, it's not going to be easy. And
15 especially now that Twelve Mile Road is
16 being widened to the size it is now.
17 It's almost like a highway. And if you
18 drive where you realize a lot of people
19 drive like it is the highway.
20 I haven't found a single sign
21 here which I would have a problem with,
22 because they all help people to get to
23 this place. And to be quite honest, I
24 have no hesitation in supporting the





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1 applicant's request for all the signs
2 they want. The more signs, the better,
3 my opinion, so you don't get in accident,
4 and you find the place without wasting
5 any time. Thank you.
6 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Thank you,
7 Member Sanghvi.
8 Member Ghannam.
9 MEMBER GHANNAM: I agree with
10 both of our speakers here. There seems
11 to be too many, but yet there are
12 justifications. I understand the unusual
13 aspect of this particular hotel. It's
14 undergoing a re-imaging, and the
15 franchise I'm sure have their own
16 requirements. You need identification;
17 you are on a very extremely busy road.
18 And you got a new cut on, you know, where
19 you indicated in terms of entrances and
20 so forth. You have a separate business
21 and restaurants. But although numbers is
22 not all we look at. The question is are
23 they necessary and do they meet our
24 standards, and I tend to agree. So I





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1 wouldn't have any problems supporting all
2 the signs as requested.
3 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Thank you.
4 Member Krieger.
5 MEMBER KRIEGER: I agree that
6 there are a lot of signs. I tried
7 looking for them actually, and I knew
8 where the Hotel Baronette was because I
9 know where it's at. As far as getting at
10 the building, that was a job in itself,
11 so I can understand the directional
12 signs. Whether they need a variance to
13 be all equal, or whether F could be at a
14 different size. As long as someone could
15 visually see it and know that's where
16 they have to go, I don't know that it
17 would have to be a bigger size. I know
18 for K on the north side, Gorman's is on
19 that corner. You can't turn left at
20 Twelve Mile and Novi Road, so that would
21 be the only one I question.
22 Other than that, it would be
23 like the same as the Crown Plaza; it's
24 difficult to access.





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1 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Thank you.
2 Any another comments? Member Gedeon.
3 MEMBER GEDEON: I would just
4 further add that I don't have an issue
5 with the number of signs. Like was said
6 previously, there are certain
7 justifications here. And I also add, the
8 majority of these are wall signs as
9 opposed to standalone signs, which I
10 think are less of a visual affront.
11 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Thank you.
12 Any other comments? I will put my
13 comments on the record now.
14 First off, thank you for
15 investing again in Novi and upgrading it.
16 It's welcomed.
17 I have been here since the
18 hotel first came, and I drive by the
19 location all the time, and I know where
20 it is, but even I have a hard time
21 finding it, looking at it, because it
22 just blends in. So I understand what
23 Mr. Cassis is saying there are too many
24 signs, and I agree with it. I don't like





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1 too many signs. But knowing the area and
2 the confusion that I have, I see where
3 the signs are needed, so I would support
4 it in this matter.
5 Any other comments on this
6 issue? If not, I will entertain a
7 motion.
8 MEMBER IBE: Mr. Chair, Case
9 No. 10-005, 27790 Novi Road, Hotel
10 Baronette, I move that we grant the
11 petitioner's request as requested, for
12 the reasons that the request is based
13 upon circumstances of features that are
14 exceptional and unique, in that the
15 fronts on both of the hotel is both on
16 Novi Road and the mall ring road and at
17 different levels. So it makes getting in
18 there very difficult; hence, the signs
19 coming in very handy.
20 Furthermore, the failure to
21 grant relief unreasonably prevent or
22 limit the use of the property, and will
23 result in substantially -- I'm sorry,
24 will result in inability to attain a





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1 higher economic or financial return for
2 the owners of the property.
3 And, finally, the grant of
4 relief will not result in a use of a
5 structure that is incompatible with
6 adjacent surrounding properties, and this
7 will also serve the spirit of the
8 ordinance. Thank you.
9 MEMBER GHANNAM: I would
10 second.
11 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: We have a
12 motion by Member Ibe, and a second by
13 Member Ghannam. Any other comments?
14 Ms. Martin, please call the
15 roll.
16 MS. MARTIN: Member Sanghvi?
17 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes.
18 MS. MARTIN: Member Cassis?
19 MEMBER CASSIS: Yes.
20 MS. MARTIN: Member Krieger?
21 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes.
22 MS. MARTIN: Member Ibe?
23 MEMBER IBE: Yes.
24 MS. MARTIN: Chairman Wrobel?





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1 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Yes.
2 MS. MARTIN: Member Ghannam?
3 MEMBER GHANNAM: Yes.
4 MS. MARTIN: Member Skelcy?
5 MEMBER SKELCY: Yes.
6 MS. MARTIN: Motion passes,
7 seven to zero.
8 MR. WHITKINS: Thank you very
9 much for your time this evening. I hope
10 you get a chance to come out and see us
11 when we are done, which we hope is
12 shortly. Thanks.
13 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Okay.
14 That brings us to the other matter
15 section of the meeting. Does city staff
16 or attorney have any issues to discuss
17 with us?
18 MS. KUDLA: No.
19 MR. BOULARD: No.
20 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Board
21 members, anything else to discuss?
22 Member Cassis, anything you
23 want to add?
24 MEMBER CASSIS: No, we are





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1 okay.
2 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Okay. I
3 will just make a comment. I want to
4 thank Member Sanghvi for his past years
5 of leadership, hard shoes to fill. I
6 don't know how you did it to keep things
7 going at the same time. Hopefully, I
8 will live up to your expectations.
9 That concludes our business for
10 the evening, and I will entertain a
11 motion to adjourn.
12 MEMBER SANGHVI: So move.
13 MEMBER IBE: Second.
14 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: We have a
15 motion and second. All in favor, say
16 aye.
17 BOARD MEMBERS: Aye.
18 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Okay.
19 Meeting is adjourned.
20 (The meeting was adjourned at
21 8:11 p.m.)
22 - - -
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1
2
3 C E R T I F I C A T E
4
5 I, Sherri L. Ruff, do hereby certify
6 that I have recorded stenographically the
7 proceedings had and testimony taken in
8 the above-entitled matter at the time and
9 place hereinbefore set forth, and I do
10 further certify that the foregoing
11 transcript, consisting of (56)
12 typewritten pages, is a true and correct
13 transcript of my said stenographic notes.
14
15
16 ____________ _____________________
Date Sherri L. Ruff, CSR-3568
17 Certified Shorthand
Reporter
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