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MEETING - ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS Proceedings had and testimony taken in the matters of the ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS, at City of Novi, 45175 West Ten Mile Road, Novi, Michigan, Tuesday, July 14, 2009. BOARD MEMBERS ALSO PRESENT: REPORTED BY: 1 Novi, Michigan 2 Tuesday, July 14, 2009 3 7:00 p.m. 4 - - - - - - 5 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Good evening, I 6 would like to call to order the July 14th, 7 2009 meeting of the Zoning Board of Appeals 8 for City of Novi. 9 Would you please rise and join me in 10 the pledge of allegiance. 11 BOARD MEMBERS: I pledge allegiance to 12 the flag of the United States of America and 13 to the Republic for which it stands, one 14 nation under God indivisible with liberty 15 and justice for all. 16 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. 17 Ms. Martin, will you please call the 18 roll. 19 MS. MARTIN: Member Bauer? 20 MEMBER BAUER: Present. 21 MS. MARTIN: Chairman Sanghvi? 22 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Here. 23 MS. MARTIN: Member Wrobel? 24 VICE-CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Present.
4 1 MS. MARTIN: Member Ghannam? 2 MEMBER GHANNAM: Here. 3 MS. MARTIN: Member Krieger? 4 MEMBER KRIEGER: Present. 5 MS. MARTIN: Member Ibe? 6 MEMBER IBE: Present. 7 MS. MARTIN: Member Cassis? 8 MEMBER CASSIS: Present. 9 (Member Donna Skelcy is present for 10 roll call.) 11 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: We have a full 12 Board and we have a quorum and the meeting 13 is now in session. I would just like to 14 remind you of some of the rules of conduct. 15 You will find them in the agenda in the back 16 and they are also being simultaneously 17 telecast. 18 Just a friendly reminder, please turn 19 off all cell phones and pagers. Individual 20 applicants may take five minutes and groups 21 may take up to 10 minutes to address the 22 Board. 23 Zoning Board of Appeals is a Hearing 24 Board empowered by the Novi City Charter to
5 1 hear appeals seeking variances from the 2 applications of the Novi Zoning Ordinances. 3 It takes a vote of at least four members to 4 approve a variance. And a vote of the 5 majority of the members present to deny a 6 variance. Tonight we have a full Board so 7 all decisions made will be final. 8 Let's look at the agenda. Are there 9 any changes in the agenda, Ms. Martin? 10 MS. MARTIN: No, there is not. 11 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Okay. May I 12 entertain a motion to -- 13 VICE-CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Motion to 14 approve the agenda as stated. 15 MEMBER BAUER: Second. 16 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: A motion has 17 been made and seconded. All those signify 18 it by saying aye? 19 BOARD MEMBERS: Aye. 20 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Those opposed 21 same sign. Okay, now we have an agenda. 22 Okay, let's go next, and we have some 23 Minutes for approval today. 24 MEMBER BAUER: Yes.
6 1 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: And we have 2 Minutes for three different months. So, let 3 us start one month at a time and let's begin 4 by talking about the Minutes of April 14, 5 2009 meeting. Are there any additions, 6 deletions, corrections in this? Yes? 7 MS. KUDLA: I have corrections. 8 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Go ahead. 9 MS. KUDLA: My first one is on page 10 31, line 16 the word they should be there. 11 Second one is on page 34, line 4 the word 12 impeded should just be impede. Page 35, 13 line 19 the unintelligible statement there 14 would have been, a consent judgment. 15 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Okay. Very 16 good. 17 MS. KUDLA: Those are all my changes. 18 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. Yes, 19 Mr. Bauer? 20 MEMBER BAUER: Page 23, that would be 21 line 20. 22 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Page 23, line 23 20. 24 MEMBER BAUER: I'm sorry.
7 1 (Unintelligible). I can't find it. 2 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Okay. Anybody 3 else? 4 MS. MARTIN: Mr. Chairman, on the 5 second page of the April 14th, I did make 6 the corrections that Jerry asked for until 7 we got to page 82, and you didn't tell me in 8 the last meeting what you wanted. Are those 9 the corrections that you wanted, Member 10 Bauer? 11 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 12 MS. MARTIN: Thank you. 13 MEMBER BAUER: Thank you. 14 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thanks very 15 much. If there are no further changes may I 16 have a motion to approve the Minutes? 17 MEMBER BAUER: So moved. 18 VICE-CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Motion to 19 approve. 20 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Motion has been 21 made and seconded. All those in favor of 22 adopting the corrected Minutes of April 23 14th, 2009 please signify by saying aye? 24 BOARD MEMBERS: Aye.
8 1 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: All those 2 opposed same sign. 3 Let's go into the following month. 4 That's the May 12 meeting, 2009. Are there 5 any corrections, additions, deletions, 6 omissions? Yes? 7 MS. KUDLA: I have a correction on 8 page 43, line 23 where it says 9 unintelligible. That should have been plan. 10 And then on page 52, lines 5 and 6 a 11 sentence sort of ran together and it should 12 have been punctuated differently. The 13 sentence should have read: Parcel of land 14 means a unit of contiguous real property 15 under common ownership. Capital, start off 16 with, Where capitalized. And then property 17 is divided into condominium units period -- 18 no -- coma, a small s, such unit shall not 19 be treated as separate parcels of land. 20 That's all the changes there. 21 And then line 13 of the same page 22 where it says individual site condominiums 23 it should have been individual site 24 condominium units.
9 1 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Very good. 2 Anybody else? Yes, Ms. Krieger? 3 MEMBER KRIEGER: On page 48, line 2, 4 where it says Oris is borders. Novi Town 5 Center there is borders in there. 6 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Okay. Anybody 7 else? We have all the corrections? May I 8 entertain a motion to approve the Minutes as 9 corrected? 10 VICE-CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Motion to 11 approve the May 12th Minutes as amended. 12 MEMBER BAUER: Second. 13 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. All 14 those in favor of adopting the Minutes as 15 corrected please signify by saying aye? 16 BOARD MEMBERS: Aye. 17 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: All those 18 opposed same sign. 19 And one more time. That's the June 9, 20 2009 meeting. Do we need any corrections, 21 deletions? Yes, Mr. Bauer? 22 MEMBER BAUER: Page 25, line 23. Novi 23 Auto Parts. We have no problem with the 24 diner.
10 1 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Okay, all right. 2 Anybody else? Seeing none, may I entertain 3 a motion to adopt the Minutes of June 9? 4 MEMBER BAUER: Move to approve June 5 9th with the changes. 6 MEMBER GHANNAM: Second. 7 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. The 8 motion has been made and seconded and all 9 those in favor please say aye? 10 BOARD MEMBERS: Aye. 11 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: All those 12 opposed same sign. All right, so Minutes 13 have been adopted. We will move on to the 14 next segment. 15 Now, next portion of the meeting is 16 public remarks section. Is there anybody in 17 the audience who would like to make any 18 comments to the Board regarding any subject 19 other than those items which are on the 20 agenda? 21 (No response.) 22 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Seeing none, we 23 will close the public remarks section. 24 All right. And this brings us to the
11 1 first case on the agenda. And that is case 2 number: 09-026 -- no, sorry, wrong one. I 3 have my papers mixed up here. That's the 4 right one, 09-024 for 48700 Grand River 5 Avenue, Jimmies Rustics. 6 MR. SICA: That's me. 7 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Will you please 8 come to the podium, identify yourself. 9 State your name and address. And if you are 10 not an attorney please be sworn in by our 11 Secretary. 12 MR. SICA: I'm not an attorney. 13 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Go ahead. 14 Please identify yourself. 15 MR. SICA: My name is Jim Sica. I'm 16 the owner of Jimmies Rustics. 17191 17 Middlebelt Road in Livonia, Michigan is 18 headquarters. 19 MEMBER BAUER: Would you raise your 20 right hand. Do you swear or affirm to tell 21 the truth regarding case 09-024? 22 MR. SICA: I do. 23 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Okay, please go 24 ahead and make your presentation.
12 1 MR. SICA: I was notified that I was 2 displaying furniture outside without the 3 appropriate permit to do so, and once I was 4 notified I called because I have had several 5 permits to do so, and the previous one that 6 I had expired in three years and I was 7 unaware of its expiration. So, I went to 8 renew this permit and I filled all the 9 paperwork. I'm not sure if you have that 10 information there, but that's what I had 11 done, and they said that I had to be here at 12 the meeting to present the case, so that's 13 why I'm here. 14 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Okay. That's 15 it? Thank you. 16 MR. SICA: Go sit down? 17 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Is there anybody 18 in the audience who would like to make any 19 comments about this case? 20 (No response.) 21 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Seeing none, I 22 would request our Secretary to read any 23 correspondence regarding this case. 24 MEMBER BAUER: There were 27 notices
13 1 mailed. Zero responses. 2 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Very good. 3 Building Department, any comments? 4 MR. BOULARD: Mr. Chairman, if I could 5 make one request that the record reflect 6 that Member Skelcy was here at the beginning 7 of the meeting. She was inadvertently 8 skipped in the roll call. 9 With that said, this property was 10 granted a temporary use permit previously. 11 There are limitations on that. The 12 Petitioner then came to the ZBA, was given 13 an exception for three years to display 14 outdoor furniture which outdoor sales are 15 not typically allowed in the B-3 zoning 16 district, and that having expired, we 17 requested that the Petitioner return for 18 consideration. 19 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Very good. I 20 will open it up to the Board now. Any 21 comments from the Board regarding this case? 22 Yes, Mr. Cassis? 23 MEMBER CASSIS: Mr. Sica, you have 24 been around a long time --
14 1 MR. SICA: Do I look -- 2 MEMBER CASSIS: -- in this community. 3 MR. SICA: Yes. 4 MEMBER CASSIS: You have got a lovely 5 shop. 6 MR. SICA: Thank you. 7 MEMBER CASSIS: We appreciate all what 8 you are doing. And we appreciate especially 9 the $300 that you paid to apply again. 10 So, Mr. Chairman, we have restaurants 11 putting people outside by a canopy, why not 12 put the furniture outside too? So, I am 13 going to vote for it. 14 MR. SICA: Thank you. 15 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. Yes, 16 Mr. Wrobel? 17 VICE-CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Thank you, 18 Mr. Chair. I too have no issue with this 19 and I would approve it for another three 20 years. Thank you. 21 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Very good. 22 MR. SICA: Thank you. 23 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Yes, Mr. Bauer? 24 MEMBER BAUER: Yes, I would also go
15 1 along with it for another three years. 2 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Very good. I 3 see that nobody else -- well, may I 4 entertain a motion from one of you then? 5 Yes, Ms. Krieger? 6 MEMBER KRIEGER: In Case Number: 7 09-024 for 48700 Grand River Avenue, Jimmies 8 Rustics, I move to approve the petition for 9 the permit for requesting a temporary use 10 approval for the outdoor display of outdoor 11 furniture at previous address for a three 12 year period from March 1st, to October 15th 13 during business hours. The property is 14 zoned B-3 and that the property cannot be 15 reasonably used for the purposes permitted 16 in the zoning district. It would be more 17 difficult to get a reasonable return. That 18 the plight of the property owner is due to 19 unique circumstances particular to his 20 property and the variance will not alter the 21 essential character of the area. And it 22 keeps in with the spirit of the Ordinance. 23 MEMBER BAUER: Second. 24 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. The
16 1 motion has been made and seconded. Any 2 further discussion? 3 MS. KUDLA: I would just indicate that 4 the findings for a variance don't need to be 5 made for this type of approval so we don't 6 need to look at unnecessary hardship, so 7 that part of the motion is not required. 8 It's just a temporary use approval under the 9 Ordinance. 10 MEMBER KRIEGER: Okay. 11 MEMBER BAUER: Okay. 12 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: All right. They 13 are adopted, your comments both by the 14 proposer and the seconder. Thank you. 15 Well, no further discussion please call the 16 roll, Ms. Martin. 17 MS. MARTIN: Member Bauer? 18 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 19 MS. MARTIN: Member Cassis? 20 MEMBER CASSIS: Yes. 21 MS. MARTIN: Member Ghannam? 22 MEMBER GHANNAM: Yes. 23 MS. MARTIN: Member Ibe? 24 MEMBER IBE: Yes.
17 1 MS. MARTIN: Member Krieger? 2 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes. 3 MS. MARTIN: Chairman Sanghvi? 4 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Yes. 5 MS. MARTIN: Member Wrobel? 6 VICE-CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Yes. 7 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. Well, 8 your request has been granted. 9 Congratulations. 10 MR. SICA: Thank you, I appreciate it. 11 I heard there were 27 notices. I think I 12 need to square something away with somebody 13 about where these notices are being sent 14 because I think I heard there was 20 15 something unanswered notices, and that's 16 something I would like to correct somehow. 17 So, I don't know who I would speak to about 18 that. 19 MR. BOULARD: The notices the 20 Secretary referred to are actually the 21 notices of adjacent property owners. 22 MR. SICA: Oh, okay. 23 MR. BOULARD: They are required to be 24 sent out for the hearing so that they can
18 1 respond. 2 MR. SICA: All right. I am wondering, 3 standing here going, oh, my God. 4 MEMBER CASSIS: That's what the $300 5 is for. 6 MR. SICA: That's what the 300 is for. 7 Now, that that's clear I feel even better 8 about that. 9 MEMBER CASSIS: Part of it is for us 10 too. 11 MR. SICA: I appreciate it. Thank you 12 very much. 13 MEMBER IBE: Not me. 14 MR. SICA: Thank you. 15 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Okay. Moving 16 along. Next case is Case Number: 09-025, 17 41200 Bridge Street, Novi Corporate Center. 18 Okay, sir, will you identify yourself. 19 MR. McKEEVER: William McKeever, 5570 20 Carol Lake Road, Commerce Township, 21 Michigan. 22 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Please be sworn 23 in. 24 MEMBER BAUER: Do you swear or affirm
19 1 to tell the truth regarding case: 09-025? 2 MR. McKEEVER: I do. 3 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Please go ahead 4 and make your presentation. 5 MR. McKEEVER: Two years ago the Board 6 had seen fit to grant a sign variance for a 7 real estate sign located at 41200 Bridge 8 Street which has since expired. I am here 9 to respectfully request an extension of that 10 variance. Conditions are similar to that of 11 which the time it was granted originally. 12 The topography of the land. The distance of 13 the building from the street. The economic 14 times. 15 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Anything else? 16 MR. McKEEVER: That should cover it. 17 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. Is 18 there anybody in the audience who would like 19 to address the Board regarding this case? 20 (No response.) 21 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Seeing 22 none, Mr. Secretary, have we got any 23 correspondence? 24 MEMBER BAUER: Yes, there were 19
20 1 notices sent, no response. 2 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Very good. 3 Building Department? 4 MR. BOULARD: Mr. Chairman, I have 5 nothing to add beyond the Petitioner's 6 explanation and the information in the 7 application. 8 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Very good. 9 Thank you. All right, I will open it up to 10 the Board. 11 If it's just a renewal situation from 12 previous times then I personally have no 13 objection in renewing the sign. 14 MEMBER BAUER: I have no objection 15 either. 16 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Anybody else? 17 The Chair will entertain a motion. Go 18 ahead, Mr. Cassis. 19 MEMBER CASSIS: You keep looking at 20 me. 21 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: I am looking on 22 both sides. 23 (Interposing)(Unintelligible). 24 MEMBER BAUER: When both of us look at
21 1 you that's when you worry. 2 MEMBER CASSIS: Mr. Chairman, I move 3 to grant an extension of this application 4 for the sign. 5 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Would you like 6 to specify a period? 7 MEMBER CASSIS: Under Case Number: 8 09-025. 9 MEMBER BAUER: Second. 10 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Do you want to 11 specify a period? 12 MEMBER CASSIS: What was the period 13 supposed to be for? 14 MR. McKEEVER: The original variance 15 was for two years. 16 MEMBER CASSIS: How many? What? 17 MR. McKEEVER: The original variance 18 was for two years. 19 MEMBER CASSIS: Another two years. 20 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Okay. Thank 21 you. 22 MEMBER BAUER: Second. 23 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Yes, sir? 24 VICE-CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Can I make
22 1 an amendment to that? Two years or until 2 the property is sold or leased if less. 3 MEMBER CASSIS: Yes. 4 MEMBER BAUER: Touché. 5 MR. SICA: Thank you. 6 MEMBER CASSIS: (Unintelligible). 7 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: All right. 8 Anything else? Anybody else have any 9 comments about this case? Seeing none, the 10 motion has been made and seconded. Will you 11 kindly call the roll. 12 MS. MARTIN: Member Bauer? 13 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 14 MS. MARTIN: Member Cassis? 15 MEMBER CASSIS: Yes. 16 MS. MARTIN: Member Ghannam? 17 MEMBER GHANNAM: Yes. 18 MS. MARTIN: Member Ibe? 19 MEMBER IBE: Yes. 20 MS. MARTIN: Member Krieger? 21 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes. 22 MS. MARTIN: Chairman Sanghvi? 23 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Yes. 24 MS. MARTIN: Member Wrobel?
23 1 VICE-CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Yes. 2 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Very good, 3 congratulations. Continue the good work. 4 Hopefully you will have some new business. 5 MEMBER BAUER: Don't go away. He has 6 another one. 7 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Oh, he has got 8 two of them. Okay, all right. Let's go to 9 the next one. 10 Case number: 09-026, 25795 11 Meadowbrook Road, Novi Technical Center. 12 Certified Management is requesting an 13 extension of the variance granted in ZBA 14 06-011 for one 24 square foot oversized real 15 estate sign located at 25795 Meadowbrook 16 Road. The property is zoned I-1 and is 17 located west of Meadowbrook Road and north 18 of Eleven Mile Road. 19 Okay, go ahead. Do we need to redo 20 his swearing in ceremony? 21 MEMBER BAUER: Do you swear or affirm 22 to tell the truth regarding case: 09-026? 23 MR. McKEEVER: I do. 24 MEMBER BAUER: Thank you, sir.
24 1 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Go ahead. 2 MR. McKEEVER: Actually it's the 3 identical circumstances and statement as 4 previously mentioned for the opposite side 5 of Meadowbrook Road just south of Eleven 6 Mile. 7 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Very good. 8 Public remarks section. Anybody in the 9 audience would like to comment regarding 10 this case? 11 (No response.) 12 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Seeing no 13 interest, Building Department? 14 MR. BOULARD: Nothing to add with the 15 exception of one question if I may? 16 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Go ahead. 17 MR. BOULARD: Has there been any 18 progress in leasing the space since the 19 previous variance? 20 MR. McKEEVER: Actually, yes, we have. 21 We have signed several leases in the 22 building. There has since been a completion 23 of the final phase of the development. 24 There has been a good deal of traffic and
25 1 interest in the site and there is, right now 2 they are negotiating an eight to ten 3 thousand square foot lease in one of the 4 buildings. 5 MR. BOULARD: When would you 6 anticipate, at the current rate of 7 absorption when would you anticipate not 8 needing the sign any more? 9 MR. McKEEVER: Well, I mean, the site 10 is quite large. It's a total of four 11 buildings on the site. The front building 12 is roughly 20,000 square feet. The three 13 multi tenants in the back are roughly 18,000 14 square feet each. So, I guess right now I 15 currently have, being as they are building 16 shells, the way the buildings are designed 17 to be broken up, there is probably 15 vacant 18 units in the site. 19 MR. BOULARD: I guess my question is, 20 in a multi tenant site that large you are 21 typically going to have, always going to 22 have some vacant space, right? You are 23 never going to have a hundred percent 24 occupancy?
26 1 MR. McKEEVER: Correct. 2 MR. BOULARD: So, I guess my question 3 is, is there a point which you think in the 4 occupancy scale that you won't need the 5 sign? 6 MR. McKEEVER: Honestly, I would 7 believe that there would always be a need 8 for a sign. Maybe at a point in time when 9 they reach a certain percentage of occupancy 10 they might not need the larger sign. But 11 given the times, I would love to be an 12 optimist and say that I would lease the 13 building in the next couple of years, but I 14 don't know. 15 MR. BOULARD: Thank you. 16 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. Mr. 17 Secretary, do we have any correspondence? 18 MEMBER BAUER: Yes, there were 192 19 notices sent. Twenty-three returned. One 20 response, from a Peter Phillips. "Our 21 neighbor needs our support. Approved." 22 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Very good. 23 Thank you. Well, I will open it up for the 24 Board. Go ahead, Mr. Bauer.
27 1 MEMBER BAUER: What other kind of 2 advertising do you do for this property? 3 MR. McKEEVER: We have a web site that 4 list the property. We also deal with the 5 multi listings, CoStar and Lukenet. We are 6 quite known throughout the real estate 7 community and have several commercial ties 8 with Signature, Grubb & Ellis, the bigger 9 commercial brokers in the area. 10 MEMBER BAUER: Okay, thank you. 11 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Very good. 12 Anybody else? Yes, Mr. Wrobel? 13 VICE-CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: I have no 14 issue renewing this request at this time. 15 But I would also like to put a little bug in 16 your ear just to explore other opportunities 17 so next time that maybe we don't have to 18 give you another variance for a sign this 19 size. Thank you. 20 MR. McKEEVER: Thank you. 21 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Yes, Mr. Cassis? 22 MEMBER CASSIS: Mr. Chairman, we all 23 know the hard times, economic times that our 24 state and our city are going through. A
28 1 very important person said we must be 2 empathetic in certain situations. The fact 3 is, the President of the United States. At 4 this moment and for this project I think the 5 Applicant has been using all the resources 6 and all the efforts at his disposal to try 7 to get those leases going. So, I think we 8 should be, I use the word again, empathetic. 9 I will vote for this. And I don't know for 10 what period of time you are talking about. 11 MR. McKEEVER: The previous variance 12 was for two years. 13 MEMBER CASSIS: I will go for two 14 years. Thank you, Mr. Chair. 15 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Okay. Anybody 16 else? Any other comments? May I entertain 17 a motion regarding this case? Any 18 volunteers? Yes, Mr. Wrobel? 19 MEMBER CASSIS: In Case Number: 20 09-026 I move to grant the Applicant an 21 extension for the oversized real estate sign 22 of 24 square feet for a period of two years 23 or until the property is sold or leased if 24 less.
29 1 (Interposing)(Unintelligible). 2 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Okay. All 3 right. 4 MEMBER KRIEGER: Second. 5 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Ms. Krieger is 6 seconding the motion. Have you any 7 comments, Mr. Wrobel? 8 VICE-CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: No. 9 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Any further 10 discussion? Seeing none, Ms. Martin, please 11 call the roll. 12 MS. MARTIN: Member Bauer? 13 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 14 MS. MARTIN: Member Cassis? 15 MEMBER CASSIS: Yes. 16 MS. MARTIN: Member Ghannam? 17 MEMBER GHANNAM: Yes. 18 MS. MARTIN: Member Ibe? 19 MEMBER IBE: Yes. 20 MS. MARTIN: Member Krieger? 21 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes. 22 MS. MARTIN: Chairman Sanghvi? 23 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Yes. 24 MS. MARTIN: Member Wrobel?
30 1 VICE-CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Yes. 2 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Very good. 3 Congratulations. 4 MR. McKEEVER: Thank you very much. 5 Have a good evening. 6 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. You 7 don't have any more tonight, right? Thank 8 you. 9 Moving along to case number 4 on the 10 agenda. Case Number: 09-027, 44050 Twelve 11 Mile Road, Stoneridge Office Park. Is the 12 Applicant here? 13 MR. CAVANAUGH: Yes. Good evening. 14 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Will you please 15 identify yourself and state your name, 16 address and be sworn in by our Secretary, 17 please. 18 MR. CAVANAUGH: My name is Pat 19 Cavanaugh. I represent Shannon Development, 20 the owner of the project. 21 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Will you please 22 swear them in. 23 MEMBER BAUER: None of you are 24 attorneys?
31 1 MR. CAVANAUGH: No, sir. 2 MEMBER BAUER: Raise your right hand. 3 Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth 4 regarding Case: 09-027? 5 MR. CAVANAUGH: Yes, sir. 6 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Yes, sir. 7 MEMBER BAUER: Thank you, sir. 8 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Go ahead and 9 make your presentation, sir. 10 MR. CAVANAUGH: We came before the 11 Board before with the concept of two signs. 12 Stoneridge is a bermed project with the 13 buildings not seen on Twelve Mile Road. 14 Initially we proposed a tenant sign and a 15 project identification sign. The Board 16 thought that wasn't in keeping with the 17 Ordinance. So, we have come back this 18 evening with a request for a single sign. 19 An identification of the park with the 20 recommendation of the Board that that would 21 be the draw and that instead of trying to 22 list all the tenants, we have the addresses 23 and again the simple office park sign. 24 We had a setback issue so we put the
32 1 sign on the top of the berm. I believe the 2 sign is some 40 square feet larger, but we 3 think that it works and that's what we're 4 here for is your approval. 5 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Very good. 6 Anything else? 7 MR. CAVANAUGH: No, sir. 8 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Nothing to add. 9 Is there anybody in the audience who would 10 like to address the Board regarding this 11 case? 12 MR. HERTZBERG (ph): Yes. 13 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Come on in, sir. 14 Please identify yourself. 15 MR. HERTZBERG: My name is Michael 16 Hertzberg. I am with Great Northern 17 Equities. We own one of the buildings 18 within Stoneridge. 19 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Go ahead. Be 20 sworn in by our Secretary. 21 MEMBER BAUER: Would you raise your 22 right hand. Do you swear or affirm to tell 23 the truth regarding Case: 09-027? 24 MR. HERTZBERG: Yes, I do.
33 1 MEMBER BAUER: Please go ahead. 2 MR. HERTZBERG: Over the past several 3 months Mr. Cavanaugh and I have stood in 4 front of the Board and presented a few 5 different sign requests. The last time we 6 stood here it was decided that the sign 7 should be a destination sign instead of an 8 individual listing, similarly like in Twelve 9 Oaks Mall and such. 10 Our clients would not look for 11 specific businesses but rather simply 12 Stoneridge Office Park. Mr. Cavanaugh 13 through ASI has created an attractive, 14 simple and informative monument sign to 15 represent the property. The plan is for the 16 sign to be mounted on an angle along Twelve 17 Mile Road effectively to be seen by the 18 westbound traffic in vehicles making the 19 turnaround from eastbound Twelve Mile as 20 well. The positioning and the placement is 21 very convenient to drivers and will not in 22 any way inhibit pedestrians who may be 23 walking the sidewalk. 24 My property has now been in business
34 1 for 11 months with virtually no signage for 2 clients to find their destination. I 3 understand it's not the responsibility of 4 the Board for the delay, but I would ask 5 that the Board accept and approve this sign 6 as presented this evening. I believe Mr. 7 Cavanaugh has listened to the Board's 8 thoughts, ideas and criticisms, has 9 addressed all the issues that have been 10 presented. Thank you. 11 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. Is 12 there anybody in the audience who would like 13 to make -- any further person to make a 14 comment regarding this case? 15 (No response.) 16 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Nobody else is 17 forthcoming, Mr. Secretary, do you have some 18 -- 19 MEMBER BAUER: Yes, there were 118 20 notices sent. Seventeen returned. Two 21 objections. 22 "A 90 square foot sign is 23 approximately half the size of a highway 24 billboard. Such a sign would lead to
35 1 increase in sign size for other buildings on 2 Twelve Mile. It would detract from the 3 professional look of a medical building 4 which it now lends the present appearance on 5 Twelve Mile Road. Leave Twelve Mile Road 6 neat." Raymond Cassia (ph). 7 Second one. "Don't need that large 8 sign there." Merle Baker. 9 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. 10 Building Department? 11 MR. BOULARD: Just a couple of 12 questions, if I may. 13 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Go ahead. 14 MR. BOULARD: The previous speaker 15 indicated that the sign was planned at an 16 angle to Twelve Mile, but the drawing shows 17 it appears to be parallel to the edge of the 18 road right-of-away. Could you clarify that 19 for us? 20 MR. CAVANAUGH: Once the sign was 21 erected it's noted that it is not very 22 visible coming from the east. So, we're 23 talking about a few degrees, not a radical 24 change in the sign.
36 1 MR. BOULARD: The second question is, 2 it has to do with the size of the sign. I 3 wondered if you could share with us any 4 thoughts or information on the necessity of 5 the size of the sign? It's a fairly 6 significant variance. 7 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Well, after the 8 last meeting that we had where we did try to 9 get two signs, you know, the Stoneridge 10 complex will have 50,000 square foot of 11 building space. In that zone unfortunately 12 they don't have a wall to have a 200 square 13 foot wall sign. So, you know, it posed a 14 problem. We have traffic on a boulevard 15 heading east and west. A deceleration lane. 16 So, when I took all the information 17 that was presented from you, some comments 18 and advice from Pat, what we did is we 19 looked up the MDOT, it's an MDOT chart for 20 signage and character visibility. And what 21 they said was for a boulevard with 45 mile 22 an hour boulevard street, minimum copy for 23 readability of 150 feet would be at 12 24 inches. When we scaled that 12 inches per
37 1 character it was a mammoth sign. So, what I 2 tried to do is take the main message which 3 is Stoneridge and keep that at 12 inches and 4 proportionately scale the rest of the copy 5 based on those calculations, and this is the 6 size that it came out to be. And reducing 7 that copy to fit in a 50 square foot sign, 8 that being their only sign I think is going 9 to be too small. That's where we came up 10 with the signage size. 11 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. All 12 right. I will open it up for the Board now. 13 Yes, Mr. Ghannam? 14 MEMBER GHANNAM: Thank you, Mr. Chair. 15 I do appreciate your efforts in going 16 through this whole change and so forth. And 17 I do agree that I think that you have made a 18 better presentation than last time, two 19 signs down to one. I also had a similar 20 concern about the size of the sign. 21 According to our notes in our Ordinances you 22 are entitled to 50 square feet. You are 23 requesting 90. It's almost double. But I 24 understand your explanation here today, it
38 1 is a multi building, multi tenant property. 2 They are not getting names and so forth. 3 The only thing they get is their address and 4 the name of the office park. So, I think 5 under the circumstances even if you reduced 6 it five or ten feet I don't think it would 7 make that much of a difference, so I would 8 be in support of your new proposal. 9 MR. CAVANAUGH: Thank you, sir. 10 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Very good. Yes, 11 Mr. Wrobel? 12 VICE-CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Thank you, 13 Mr. Chair. I also thank you for your 14 cooperation on this. One question I have 15 for staff is, the placement of the sign, 16 does that create any site line problems with 17 traffic near the entrance on the Twelve Mile 18 if people are there looking one way or the 19 other at this proposed location? 20 MR. BOULARD: It appears from the 21 drawing that was provided and the scaling 22 that roughly that the sign would be in 23 compliance with the corner clearance 24 provisions. I think it would be -- if you
39 1 are concerned about that, there might be an 2 opportunity for the Board to include that 3 compliance with those requirements in the 4 variance. 5 VICE-CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Okay, thank 6 you. Other than that, I have no issue with 7 the sign as is. Thank you. 8 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. Yes, 9 Ms. Krieger? 10 MEMBER KRIEGER: I agree with the 11 previous speakers. I have a question for 12 the City. The Applicant has been here 13 twice. Would they have to re-notify if they 14 change the angle of the sign? Or can we 15 make that part of our motion? 16 MR. BOULARD: That would not be part 17 the variance. The angle of the sign would 18 not be regulated as to the size. 19 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Yes, Mr. Cassis? 20 MEMBER CASSIS: I am just trying to 21 visualize. I have seen the size of it out 22 there. If we look at this opening up here, 23 what would 10 feet across be? Could it be 24 the size of the opening?
40 1 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Yes. 2 MEMBER CASSIS: That's 10 feet? 3 MR. CAVANAUGH: Yes, just about that. 4 MEMBER CASSIS: To be 90 square feet 5 you have to go up -- 6 MR. CAVANAUGH: Nine feet. 7 MEMBER CASSIS: Nine feet. Are we 8 talking about like the opening of this whole 9 thing? 10 MR. CAVANAUGH: Yes. 11 MEMBER CASSIS: I am sorry, but this 12 is a huge sign. It's a very huge sign and a 13 big deviation from the Ordinance. 14 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Very good. 15 Anybody else? Yes, Mr. Ibe? 16 MEMBER IBE: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I 17 have a problem with the sign. I empathize 18 with you. I know you have been here before, 19 but I think the variation that has been 20 requested here is quite significant. I know 21 it's not in my position to tell you what to 22 put on your sign, but I think the numbers on 23 that sign is personally a nuisance. I don't 24 think anyone driving is going to look around
41 1 and say, ooh, let me look for 44070. What 2 they are going to see is Stoneridge Office 3 Park. So anything below that is just a pure 4 waste of space. 5 I personally think the sign is too 6 big. If we are looking at the size of this, 7 I think it is too large. And I know the 8 medical center is next to this building. I 9 just don't see how you put such a gigantic 10 sign in the middle of these two buildings 11 and that's the only thing you are going to 12 see is that huge sign when you are driving 13 down the street. The sign for me just 14 doesn't work. I know you have done your 15 best. And I am sure you have tried to do 16 the best that you can to get something that 17 can be approvable by the Board. However, 18 the way it stands right now, as much as I 19 would love to vote in your favor, it doesn't 20 appear as if I will. 21 Thank you, Mr. Chair. 22 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. 23 Anybody else? Well, I will put my penny's 24 worth of comments. Yes, it is a huge sign,
42 1 but then it's a huge development with a 2 number of different buildings. It's not a 3 single building. And when you look at the 4 number of square feet that are involved in 5 that entire project, if you gave 6 individually every one of them a sign that 7 they would be entitled to and if you add 8 them up you might have a different number 9 all together. We are not doing that. And I 10 think putting the numbers on the sign is a 11 kind of style for the individual owners of 12 this. Whether it serves any purpose or not, 13 I don't know, time only will tell whether 14 these numbers serve any purpose. But at 15 least the building and condo owners or 16 whatever term you want to use, they need 17 some identification that, yes, they belong 18 inside this park. 19 And it is, again, as you rightly put, 20 what they put on the sign is really not what 21 we are deciding here. And I always believe 22 that a businessman ought to know what is 23 best for him rather than we advising them 24 about whether it is good for them or not.
43 1 It's for us to decide whether we want to 2 approve the sign or not approve the sign 3 rather than what goes on the sign by and 4 large. Anyway, that's the sum total of my 5 comments and feelings. 6 May I entertain a motion in any 7 direction by anybody? 8 MEMBER IBE: Mr. Chair, please? 9 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Yes. 10 MEMBER IBE: Just an additional 11 comment. Just so we can set the record 12 straight. No one is dictating to anyone 13 what to put on your sign. However, what you 14 put on your sign affects whether you get a 15 variance or not. Certainly that affects the 16 size of the sign you are asking for. So, I 17 think it is a legitimate issue to ask about 18 what you put on the sign. So, yes, it is a 19 business decision that you make as to 20 whether you put the names of all the 21 occupants of every building on your sign, or 22 whether you elect to put just one name that 23 is identifiable for everyone that occupies 24 the building. It is not the position of
44 1 this Board member to dictate to you or 2 anyone else what to put on your sign. 3 However, it is unequivocally the position of 4 this Board member that when you have a sign 5 that is extremely too large due to the 6 information you placed on it, that I bring 7 it to your attention. 8 So, Mr. Chair, I just want to make 9 that note that I am not dictating to them 10 what to put on their sign, but the variance 11 itself is so large because of the 12 information contained in the sign. Thank 13 you. 14 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. Go 15 ahead. Yes, Mr. Cassis? 16 MEMBER CASSIS: You know all the great 17 regard I have for you, Mr. Chairman, 18 however, in this case, we have to think 19 about a precedent we are trying to set here. 20 Are we going to entertain more 90 square 21 feet of signs strolled all across down 22 Twelve Mile Road or any other road? 23 And, second, we have to be cognizant 24 of the affect it has on the neighbor. Would
45 1 the neighbor then come back and say, look, 2 this sign now hides my sign and makes it 3 look obscure, I want a larger sign? So, I 4 submit, Mr. Chairman, with all due respect, 5 that I think this sign is very huge, way out 6 of size and really radically goes out of 7 size for the Ordinance on the books. And 8 also as my esteemed colleague here said, 9 does not really need all the remarks that 10 are on that sign. Thank you very much. 11 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. 12 Anybody else? 13 MR. HERTZBERG: Is it possible I 14 can add something real quick? 15 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Just wait, we 16 are still discussing now. Your turn has 17 come and gone basically. 18 MR. HERTZBERG: Okay. 19 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. 20 Okay. Yes, Ms. Krieger? 21 MEMBER KRIEGER: Question for the 22 City. I don't remember the size of the 23 Twelve Oaks' sign. 24 MEMBER BAUER: That's a different
46 1 district. 2 MEMBER KRIEGER: It's a different 3 district. 4 MEMBER BAUER: Special. 5 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: It's not the 6 same. Different zoning and different sign. 7 MEMBER KRIEGER: Okay. 8 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Okay, well, I 9 would like to hear a motion from the Board 10 members of any kind. Yes, Mr. Ghannam? 11 MEMBER GHANNAM: I will try one, Mr. 12 Chair. 13 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Why not. 14 MEMBER GHANNAM: In Case Number: 15 09-027 for 44050 Twelve Mile Road, 16 Stoneridge Office Park I would move to 17 approve the variance as requested and the 18 placement as suggested under paperwork 19 submitted to the Zoning Board. I think 20 their request is based on circumstances of 21 features that are exceptional to this 22 particular property given the size of the 23 number of buildings and the square footage 24 and they do not result from conditions that
47 1 exist generally. 2 I understand the comments of our 3 colleagues here and precedent is important, 4 but this is a unique center and there may 5 not be necessarily that many centers in the 6 City. I think the failure to grant relief 7 would unreasonably prevent or limit the use 8 of the property and will result in 9 substantially more than a mere inconvenience 10 or inability to attain a higher economic or 11 financial return. I think the grant of 12 relief would not result in a use of the 13 structure that is incompatible with or 14 unreasonably interferes with adjacent or 15 surrounding properties and it would result 16 in substantial justice being done to the 17 Applicant and the adjacent and surrounding 18 properties. And it's not inconsistent with 19 the spirit of the Ordinance. 20 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Very good. 21 VICE-CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Second. 22 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: The motion has 23 been made and seconded. Any further 24 discussion? Seeing none, Ms. Martin, please
48 1 call the roll. 2 MS. MARTIN: Member Bauer? 3 MEMBER BAUER: No. 4 MS. MARTIN: Member Cassis? 5 MEMBER CASSIS: No. 6 MS. MARTIN: Member Ghannam? 7 MEMBER GHANNAM: Yes. 8 MS. MARTIN: Member Ibe? 9 MEMBER IBE: No. 10 MS. MARTIN: Member Krieger? 11 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes. 12 MS. MARTIN: Chairman Sanghvi? 13 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Yes. 14 MS. MARTIN: Member Wrobel? 15 VICE-CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Yes. 16 MS. MARTIN: 4-3 it passes. 17 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. 18 MR. CAVANAUGH: Thank you. 19 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Okay, moving on 20 to the next case. Case Number: 09-028, 21 41010 Malott Drive. Is the Applicant here? 22 Presley Architecture, LLC, is 23 requesting a variance to allow construction 24 of a rear one story addition to an existing
49 1 residence at 41010 Malott Drive. The 2 existing structure extends into the side 3 setbacks. In addition to the following 4 dimensional variance the project requires an 5 exception to 2502.4a to allow expansion of a 6 non-conforming structure. Property is zoned 7 R-4 and is located east of Meadowbrook Road 8 and south of Ten Mile Road. 9 Okay. Both of you are going to make 10 presentations? 11 MR. PRESLEY: Yes. 12 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Are any of you 13 attorneys? 14 MR. PRESLEY: No. 15 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Will you please 16 both identify yourselves. State your name 17 and address and then be sworn in by our 18 Secretary, please. 19 MR. PRESLEY: My name is Greg Presley. 20 Address is 412 West Dunlap, Northville, 21 Michigan, 48167. 22 MR. WARDA (ph): My name Cazmere (ph) 23 Warda, 41010 Malott Drive, Novi, Michigan 24 48375.
50 1 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. 2 MEMBER BAUER: Would you both raise 3 your right hand. Do you swear or affirm to 4 tell the truth regarding case: 09-028? 5 MR. PRESLEY: Yes, I do. 6 MR. WARDA: Yes. 7 MEMBER BAUER: Thank you. 8 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Okay, please 9 make your presentation. 10 MR. PRESLEY: I am the architect for 11 the proposed project. And with me is the 12 builder, Mike Miller and Caz's father Greg. 13 And also I should say this is Laura 14 MacWilliams who is Caz's girlfriend. 15 We will start with this. Caz grew up 16 in this neighborhood, the Willowbrook 17 neighborhood. He served in the army from 18 2006 to 2008 in Iraq. He was medically 19 discharged in 2008 because as a gunner in 20 March of '07 in a Humvee which was destroyed 21 by a roadside bomb he lost his eyesight. He 22 was then medically discharged and moved back 23 to the neighborhood he grew up in in April 24 of 2008. And Caz is sworn in because he
51 1 would like to explain to you why he would 2 like to do this addition. 3 MR. WARDA: Hello, Board. The reason 4 why I would like to have this addition done 5 mainly is for my safety for myself and 6 actually for others. The addition is a 7 rehabilitation room. During my whole life I 8 was very active. With Greg and some of the 9 wrestling coaches at Novi High School we 10 came up with a rehabilitation room which 11 accommodates me for all my needs and also it 12 gives enough room for extra safe area to 13 work in. 14 I have tried to go to other gym 15 memberships, but it turns out to be like a 16 nightmare. They are really crowed. There 17 is many incidents where I myself would bump 18 into people even with the cane, and for my 19 safety and other the people safety, that's 20 what I am worried about. Because all it 21 takes is for one slip and I could hurt 22 somebody else severely. Working out is a 23 dangerous sport especially when you are 24 working with heavy weights. The reason I
52 1 have the wrestling mats is because with that 2 space I can -- I wrestled all through high 3 school and in the military and it gives me 4 enough area to move around and to exercise 5 and pretty much feel safeguarded around me 6 so I can feel confident in what I am doing 7 and I won't hurt myself at the same time. 8 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Very good. 9 Anything else? 10 MR. PRESLEY: Yes. I put up for the 11 Board's interest the space layout that was 12 provided far Caz and it shows that the size 13 space that we needed to create is somewhere 14 between 900 and 1,000 square feet. Where we 15 ended up with is about 930 square feet. 16 And then the other thing I would like 17 to show you is the site plan because it's 18 interesting. The subdivision is a very old 19 one by Novi standards even. It was phase 20 two which was Malott, it included Malott 21 Street was built in the early to mid '50s. 22 Whether or not the Ordinance back then 23 allowed buildings to be as close to the 24 property lines as they are, I don't know.
53 1 However, many of them are 10 feet off of 2 their neighbor. Five feet off of one side 3 at least. And, so, many of them are 4 therefore non-conforming structures. So, 5 you may have seen other projects come before 6 you from this neighborhood, I am sure you 7 have, as for expansion of a nonconformity if 8 nothing else. 9 We looked at how to accomplish this 10 and tried to do that within the confines of 11 the Zoning Ordinance. Trying to put a 1,000 12 square foot addition on a house has its 13 challenges anyway. But we erred on the side 14 of providing light and ventilation to the 15 spaces of the house that we felt needed 16 them, the kitchen and the nook. So, 17 therefore, rather than put what might have 18 been a conforming addition on the back side 19 of the house which would have covered 20 two-thirds of it, we elected that it would 21 be a better choice for the occupants to have 22 it on the side. We do believe that we still 23 maintain ventilation and light for the 24 neighbors because we are not worsening the
54 1 non-conformity on the east side. In fact, 2 any project that came before you would have 3 two variances of the four that are 4 requested. The total for the two sides, and 5 also doing work in the east side setback 6 there which in our case is what we would 7 like to do. 8 The variance then on the -- let me 9 back up. The variance request for exceeding 10 the allowable lot coverage is seven percent. 11 And the reason for that is the size of the 12 space. We would need to come to you even if 13 we could have created a conforming addition 14 for that variance request. And we hope 15 you'll agree that that's the size space we 16 need. 17 Then, finally, the only issue that we 18 think would be more controversial might be 19 the request to go into the rear setback by 20 eight feet and that's, I guess we could 21 point out that we are still preserving some 22 73 percent of the required rear yard 23 setback. I put up that site plan so you 24 could see that the adjacent houses, those
55 1 are also ranch houses, most of the houses 2 there are ranch houses, so they are very 3 wide houses, but not very deep. 4 They are situated forward relative to 5 their property lines and so their rear yards 6 actually are quite generous for the size of 7 the home. In fact, this house is right now 8 is 64 feet off the rear property line. And 9 I'm guessing that's the case for most of the 10 neighborhood. Many of these houses either 11 have original or later additions that would 12 go into their backyards. 13 My point made is that because of the 14 configuration of these houses, ranch houses 15 and being forward in their lots, they do 16 have generous backyards. In fact, I think, 17 I'm not sure where the house would be 18 directly behind, but I am guessing that even 19 with this variance request, it would be in 20 the 60 to 70 foot distance between the two 21 structures. 22 We have asked and 23 received subdivision approval for this 24 addition. So, in summary, we do believe
56 1 that this is a permitted use to create a 2 rehabilitation use, a gymnasium in a sense, 3 we think we have created a reasonable 4 solution given our circumstances. And 5 unfortunately we need to break some 6 variances to be able to do that. We do 7 believe that it's fair to the owner 8 obviously, but we don't believe that it's 9 detrimental to the neighborhood. We don't 10 believe it hurts property values nor do we 11 believe that it makes safety an issue for 12 the neighborhood. And air, ventilation and 13 light is preserved. And we certainly 14 believe that we do follow the spirit of the 15 Ordinance. Then finally 16 we would say that our circumstances are 17 unique and so we're asking for those reasons 18 that you would grant these variances. Thank 19 you. 20 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. Is 21 there anyone in the audience who wishes to 22 speak regarding this case? Will you please 23 come to the podium here. Identify yourself, 24 your name, address and be sworn in by our
57 1 Secretary. 2 MR. TUREK (ph): My name is Howard 3 Turek. 41065 South McMahon. 4 MEMBER BAUER: Would you raise your 5 right hand. Do you swear or affirm to tell 6 the truth regarding case: 09-028? 7 MR. TUREK: I do. 8 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Please go ahead. 9 MR. TUREK: Board Members, I provided 10 you folks with my input and documentation. 11 But just a couple of added things and then 12 you can discuss that. I forget the 13 gentleman's name, the architect here, but he 14 said he received the subdivision's approval. 15 I spoke with Susan Boulay (ph) who is the 16 president of the association. That is a 17 little erroneous. He is misleading the 18 Board members here. When I spoke to her she 19 had the drawing, but she had never visited 20 the site. She lives on the north side of 21 Ten Mile. So, she unilaterally gave her 22 approval, never consulted with us, the 23 people that surround us. My neighbor next 24 door to me, my neighbor across the street.
58 1 I'm not sure if there are some other people 2 here regarding this. 3 As far as, Member Cassis, you made the 4 comment that it's setting a precedent. If 5 you folks were to take a Google earth look 6 at the whole neighborhood, this would be the 7 largest addition. It would be out of 8 proportion to anything else that has been 9 built in this subdivision. It doesn't fit 10 with the spirit of the subdivision. I 11 appreciate what Caz has done for our 12 country, but we have a right as homeowners 13 that surround him to have our property 14 preserved in the manner in which we 15 purchased it and in which we intended it to 16 be used. 17 If he wants to stay within the 18 footprint, obviously there is nothing we can 19 say about that, that's fine. But I don't 20 want to be looking at what's going to turn 21 into a quasi medical building. The only 22 thing I need to add is a 7-Eleven and a 23 dumpster and I'll have a commercial building 24 backing up to me. If I wanted to back up to
59 1 a commercial building I would have purchased 2 a home, you know, behind a building like 3 that. But that's not that the house is 4 going to look trashy, but it's going to be 5 interfering with my view. Particularly the 6 lady on the east side who is going to have 7 an issue with this bike path remains. 8 Caz put up a privacy fence. Mrs. 9 Boulay said that he never requested 10 subdivision approval for the privacy fence. 11 It's in violation of the subdivision's 12 bylaws and it's going to leave about a four 13 foot eight wide path that's going to be 60 14 feet long from front to back. It's going to 15 have no way to get sunlight. 16 I have an issue right now with the 17 privacy fence. I know that's not the 18 discussion here, but the privacy fence along 19 my cyclone fence, I can't clean the trash 20 out because it's on his side of the fence. 21 It's not my problem, but it's my trash now. 22 So, I think if Caz was going to 23 subscribe to the good neighbor policy here, 24 he should have brought this in front of all
60 1 of his surrounding neighbors instead of 2 coming here first and us getting a notice, 3 and maybe asked us to buy in, maybe 4 discussed it with us. A little goodwill 5 goes a long way. I know he did go to the 6 subdivision, but as I said, you are not 7 getting the full story. Thank you. 8 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Mr. Turek, 9 before you go. You provided us with some 10 photographs here? 11 MR. TUREK: Yes. 12 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: I would like you 13 to put them on the screen so the people at 14 home also can see what we are talking about. 15 MR. TUREK: I hope I have enough 16 copies. I might have to borrow from you. I 17 might have run out. 18 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: You can have 19 these. As you put them in will you explain 20 to them what you have explained in your 21 letter. Thank you. 22 MR. TUREK: This is a picture from 23 Google earth. There is Caz's house right 24 here. This is my house. This is Carol, my
61 1 next door neighbor and this is the neighbor 2 directly west of Caz. As you can see there 3 is an addition, a sun room on the back of 4 mine is 10 by 12. Carol has about the same 5 size. This lady I don't really know her 6 that well. She has the same size and they 7 all fit within the -- a lot of the homes 8 have had these kind of additions put on 9 them. Quite a few. So, it's kind of the 10 spirit if you were to get a larger overview 11 and kind of look around on the Google earth, 12 you will see this is generally what you are 13 going to see in this neighborhood. 14 There is two other houses that 15 are larger additions that appear to fit more 16 into the footprint of what the boundaries of 17 the property, a building should be and don't 18 go outside of it. 19 This picture was taken from my 20 backyard standing in my garage and as the 21 architect noted, there is about 60 feet, 65 22 feet from the back of the house to the fence 23 line. There is the privacy fence that has 24 been put up. He wants to come back 38 feet
62 1 which would front to back about 60 feet. He 2 is going to put it within about 25 feet of 3 my fence. And as you can see right here, 4 this extension will come out 40 feet and the 5 pitch of the roof is going to block, it's 6 going to sandwich in between the fence and 7 the house. That area of grass that 8 eventually will die and whatever is going to 9 collect in there, there is no way to get sun 10 to it. It's going to affect the woman next 11 door over here. And I am going to have to 12 look at this gabled roof every day. 13 I took the architect's drawing, scaled 14 it down using photo shop and then I laid in 15 the footprint of that addition. And that's 16 what that addition would look like. The 17 dotted line is what would be the footprint 18 of the house if it stayed within its 19 boundaries. So, that's how much it would go 20 outside. So, it would be the largest 21 addition to a 55-year-old subdivision that 22 has nothing this size in it. I don't know 23 how much it's going to cost, I guess it's 24 none of my business, but it just seems like
63 1 it's quite a bit of work for considering the 2 neighborhood. You can buy a house in our 3 neighborhood for $80,000 right now. 4 I am not really good with paint shop, 5 so I did my best to kind of give you -- what 6 I did is I took the drawing and lined the 7 pitches up based off the architect's drawing 8 to kind of give you an idea. Obviously I 9 can't get the tree on the other side because 10 the tree would be on the other side. But it 11 gives you an idea. Over here you can see 12 what you would have for like a space between 13 the fence and the outer wall of the house 14 and it's just, it's too big for a weight 15 room. 16 I have free weights. I have a 17 treadmill and they all are in my 10 by 12 18 sun room. I don't think that Caz needs 19 something that large. I'm sorry. 20 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Okay, thank you. 21 Anybody else? Please come forward. 22 MR. KENDALL: Good evening. My name 23 is Patrick Kendall. I am the easterly 24 neighbor to Caz. My wife Christine could
64 1 not be here. She is taking care of our 2 stepson tonight. 3 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Will you 4 get sworn in by our Secretary. 5 MEMBER BAUER: Do you swear or affirm 6 to tell the truth regarding Case: 09-028? 7 MR. KENDALL: I do. 8 MEMBER BAUER: Thank you. 9 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Go ahead. 10 MR. KENDALL: First off, I want to let 11 everyone know here of my admiration for my 12 neighbor. I appreciate what he has done. 13 So, I don't want that to get lost in the 14 shuffle here. In a lot of ways he's what 15 afforded me the ability to come up here and 16 speak before you tonight. So, that said, I 17 do have some concerns about this addition. 18 My major concern is the alleyway that 19 is seemingly created here on the eastern 20 side of the building. From what I 21 understand it's going to be less than five 22 feet and it's going to parallel a six foot 23 wooden fence. You know, by nature, a 24 structure there is fire peril or fire hazard
65 1 with any structure. Couple that with it's 2 up against or parallels a six foot wooden 3 fence, there may be an issue there. 4 Additionally I have got trees on the 5 west side that line this proposed structure. 6 Am I going to have to cut these down? Am I 7 going to have some exposure due to this at 8 that point? That may cost me some money. 9 Frankly, I would rather spend my money on 10 other things given what's going on in the 11 world today. 12 With regard to light and air flow, I 13 can't tell you what or how that's going to, 14 how that's going to affect anything. What I 15 can deduce is that the plausibility to me 16 exist that with this alley that sun exposure 17 is not going to get to that area. We may 18 have a situation where I believe that the 19 roof is scheduled to, and correct me if I'm 20 wrong, slope to the east and west, correct? 21 MR. PRESLEY: Right. 22 MR. KENDALL: With water runoff I 23 don't know how that's going to affect -- are 24 we going to have standing pools of water?
66 1 Is it going to create a mosquito issue at 2 some point? Now, I have got five 3 individuals in my home. Two toddlers, a 4 teenager, my wife and myself. We're in a 5 1,400 square foot ranch and we are packed in 6 like sardines. My stuff has been in the 7 garage for four years. We're just now 8 starting to unload it in a garage sale, 9 luckily some of it is selling. 10 We value very much the use of our 11 backyard. My wife and I have worked very 12 hard to create a space that we can enjoy. 13 My daughters love running around. We have 14 swing sets. We have sand boxes all lined up 15 against the western side. So, if I have a 16 concern, mainly mine is this alleyway that 17 is supposedly going to be created. I don't 18 know how much if there is an overhang, how 19 much that is going to play into things as 20 well. So, I wanted to point that out to the 21 Board. 22 Additionally, you know, we're talking 23 about a 57 percent increase in square 24 footage here. A 975 square foot addition.
67 1 I believe the existing home is 1,700 square 2 feet. It's a 57 percent increase in square 3 footage. It's a 28 percent increase in lot 4 coverage. Given that the homes in our 5 neighborhood are anywhere from 1,200 to 6 1,900 square feet, I might put forth that 7 this structure breaches the integrity of the 8 neighborhood at that point. 9 Mr. Presley pointed out that they are 10 not worsening a non-conformity here. Well, 11 I would argue by virtue of extending this 12 present non-conformity north, they are 13 worsening it. So, you know, I think that 14 that needs to be taken into consideration. 15 And with regard to value, we 16 can't propose to know what value is in 17 today's times. The value anywhere has been 18 dimensioned to a point where I care not to 19 think about at night. It's sickening and it 20 makes me sick to my stomach. All we've got 21 really to live on is our view of treeline 22 backyards. I feel that's going to be 23 compromised with this roof and this brick 24 wall that we are going to be looking at. We
68 1 like to watch the storms roll in from the 2 west. 3 You know, from a market value 4 standpoint, while I can't argue that our 5 value is diminished, I can argue that the 6 value to my family it is diminished. 7 That said, my wife and I were firm 8 believers in private property rights. This 9 is very difficult for us to come here and 10 argue this. We have the utmost admiration 11 for what Caz has done. And for us to come 12 to object on another person's property 13 rights, it kind of goes against an ideology 14 that I have. But at the same time, I am 15 starting to feel that it's starting to 16 infringe upon my rights as well. 17 So, that's the reason I am here 18 tonight to kind of speak up on my behalf. 19 So, I appreciate your time. 20 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. 21 Anybody else? Please come forward. 22 MR. LIPPINOGA (ph): Hello. 23 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Please identify 24 yourself.
69 1 MR. LIPPINOGA: My name is Timothy 2 Lippinoga. I live in this subdivision. 3 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: What's your 4 address, sir? 5 MEMBER BAUER: Your address? 6 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Your address for 7 the record? 8 MR. LIPPINOGA: 41066 South McMahon 9 Circle. 10 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. 11 MEMBER BAUER: Do you swear or affirm 12 to tell the truth regarding case: 09-028? 13 MR. LIPPINOGA: I do. 14 MEMBER BAUER: Thank you. 15 MR. LIPPINOGA: I just feel that as 16 they've said, it's too big of an addition to 17 the area. I have been in the area for four 18 years now. My wife and I we work hard too 19 like everybody else. And it would be an 20 eyesore. It would diminish the whole 21 context of the area. Like what the 22 gentleman said, it's a ranch area. There 23 are smaller houses. And to put something 24 like that on there, it would be ridiculous
70 1 really. No disrespect to the gentleman for 2 wanting to do this, but if you could tone it 3 down quite a bit, like what the other people 4 have, you know, the smaller size room. I 5 don't think he needs something that big. 6 I am a concerned citizen in my area, 7 you know. And I appreciate your time. 8 Thank you very much. 9 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. 10 Anybody else? Seeing no further 11 participation from the audience, I request 12 our Secretary to tell us about the 13 correspondence. 14 MEMBER BAUER: There were 43 notices 15 mailed. None returned. Three objections, 16 and one of those was from one of our 17 speakers. 18 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Mr. Turek. 19 MEMBER BAUER: Yes, Mr. Turek. We 20 have Scott and his wife McCurdy (ph). "The 21 size of the addition is just too large and 22 relative to the size of the yard 23 approximately to the neighbors. We built an 24 addition west up rather than into the yard
71 1 and our square footage is less than the 2 applicant's with proposed changes. The 3 shape of the house after proposed changes 4 might affect a buyer's decision to buy a 5 house nearby." 6 Mr. Patrick Kendall. "On behalf of my 7 family which resides at 40994 Malott, please 8 accept this letter as a formal objection 9 relative to the case: 09-028. Please note 10 that for purposes of this objection, 40994 11 Malott is an eastern adjacent property to 12 the subject property case. We would like to 13 cite the following reasons of objections. 14 Potential fire hazards which is the 15 structure, fire danger and inherent risk of 16 nature. Proposed structure would parallel a 17 six foot high wooden privacy fence. 18 Proposed structure would be constructed mere 19 feet away from 40994 Malott's westerly trees 20 not to mention the power lines. Restricted 21 light and air flow on the eastern side of 22 the proposed structure. 23 Proposed structure creates an 24 additional 975 feet into the already
72 1 existing 1,700 square feet. This results in 2 a 57 percent increase. With regard to value 3 we can only add really the high value we 4 place on being able to enjoy our outdoor 5 living." Mr. Turek. 6 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. 7 Building Department? 8 MR. BOULARD: Thank you. A point of 9 clarification to start. Just for the 10 Board's information there is a total of five 11 variances. Four of those that are 12 requested, four of those are dimensional and 13 then the fifth variance is actually to allow 14 expansion of the non-conforming structure 15 and so that's the reason that it was noted 16 as such in the public notice. 17 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Okay. 18 MR. BOULARD: Also, if I could. There 19 were a couple of comments from folks 20 regarding the fire safety and the exterior 21 wall and the proximity to the property line. 22 I just wanted to indicate that at this point 23 we haven't done a building review of this, 24 but the Building codes do deal with openings
73 1 and walls in close proximity to the property 2 line as well as eaves and maximum extension. 3 I assume that Mr. Presley has taken these 4 into account. If not, I am sure if the 5 variance is granted they can be dealt with. 6 But there are measures that are part of the 7 Building code to address that. So, I will 8 leave it at that. 9 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. I 10 will open it up to the Board. Yes, Mr. 11 Wrobel? 12 VICE-CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Thank you, 13 Mr. Chair. First off, Mr. Warda, thank you 14 for your service to our country and the 15 sacrifices you have incurred as a result of 16 that service. And we are also glad you 17 decided to stay in Novi where you will spend 18 a lot of time. 19 That being said, I have another issue 20 for staff. The size of the proposed 21 addition is there any other addition within 22 that subdivision that reaches this 23 magnitude? From just riding around and 24 looking I have noticed there were additions
74 1 obviously, but nothing this great. Do we 2 have that? 3 MR. BOULARD: I can't give you that 4 answer at this point. I can tell you that 5 in my experience in my short tenure here, 6 I'm not aware of a similar size addition in 7 this area that required variances. I 8 haven't looked at every single construction 9 plan that comes through, but I'm not aware 10 of any. I can't give you a definite answer. 11 VICE-CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: The other 12 issue which you somewhat addressed. I had 13 written down fire department, fire marshal 14 concerns and you said that would be handled 15 by the Building Department. That's one of 16 my big concerns. 17 MR. BOULARD: Yes, anywhere that you 18 have buildings in proximity to property 19 lines there is an increase in danger, but 20 the Building code, or the current Building 21 code requirements would apply to this 22 addition if approved in this location and 23 there are provisions there that are in place 24 to protect adjacent buildings and also this
75 1 building from adjacent properties. 2 VICE-CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: I 3 understand Mr. Worda's need for additional 4 space, and I have a little trouble with the 5 side setback requirements, but where I have 6 the issue is the rear setback. And given 7 the size that's proposed it's just way out 8 of proportion with the other homes in the 9 area that I have seen. I would hope that it 10 might be a possibility that he would 11 consider downsizing the size of the 12 addition. We would like to approve it, but 13 based on the way it is right now I just 14 couldn't in good conscious approve something 15 this size in that subdivision. Thank you. 16 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Yes, Mr. 17 Ghannam? 18 MEMBER GHANNAM: Thank you, Mr. Chair. 19 I have got a couple of questions for the 20 City. First and foremost, if there was an 21 approval of whether it be this size addition 22 or even smaller, would there still be things 23 that have to be complied with in terms of 24 fire codes and fire marshal and things like
76 1 that? Would there be further steps that 2 they would have to go through to finally get 3 this permit and built? Or no? 4 MR. BOULARD: Yes. And I can give you 5 an example if it would help. 6 MEMBER GHANNAM: Yes. 7 MR. BOULARD: If this variance request 8 as put forth was approved, then there would 9 still be the Building permit application. 10 The plans would be prepared by the 11 architect, the documentation that would come 12 from the contractor and so on. And then 13 once, once that review is completed, the 14 addition would be constructed in accordance 15 with the current requirements with the 16 Building code which would also include 17 hardware and interconnected smoke detectors 18 throughout the house. That's now a 19 requirement. You put an addition on, you 20 have to go back and (unintelligible). 21 MEMBER GHANNAM: One of the neighbors' 22 concern was potential drainage and water 23 runoff and so forth, so I presume like 24 grading, those types of things will be dealt
77 1 with? 2 MR. BOULARD: Yes. It would be up to 3 the designer and the contractor to address 4 those issues. It would be a challenge in 5 that area, but I am certain it can be done. 6 MEMBER GHANNAM: I just have a couple 7 of questions for the architect. If you 8 could come to the podium. First of all, 9 does this home have a basement? 10 MR. PRESLEY: No. Well, not in that 11 area, no. 12 MEMBER GHANNAM: No. This particular 13 home? 14 MR. PRESLEY: I don't know. Do you 15 have a basement? 16 MR. WARDA: No. 17 MEMBER GHANNAM: So, it does not have 18 a basement? 19 MR. PRESLEY: Correct. 20 MEMBER GHANNAM: Secondly, have you 21 considered an alternative to this size of a 22 structure in the location that you choose? 23 I mean, the biggest concern that jumps out 24 to not only I am sure most of us, but the
78 1 neighbors, is the size because of the 2 obvious. Maybe an eyesore, too big, doesn't 3 fit the neighborhood, things like that. 4 Have you considered something like that 5 given the Petitioner's needs, actually 6 special needs? 7 MR. PRESLEY: Well, I would say this, 8 on the issue of view, the ridge line of this 9 proposed addition isn't higher than the 10 existing ridge line. So, you don't see it 11 from the street, let's put it that way. 12 MEMBER GHANNAM: Yeah, I understand, 13 but you have got side neighbors and you have 14 got rear neighbors who are staring at this 15 and that's a concern for them, and 16 realistically it's a concern for me too. 17 MR. PRESLEY: Right. As I mentioned 18 in my presentation, we were trying to make 19 it work within the setback area, but 900 to 20 1,000 square feet is hard to make that 21 happen. So, in order to make -- in order to 22 accommodate more and have less variance 23 request we would have to reduce the 24 requirements, the program requirements.
79 1 With meeting the number -- I can put this 2 back up again. There are certain equipment 3 that is desired. And, Caz, can you say 4 again, who provided that information for 5 you? 6 MR. WARDA: Coach Danny Jilg from 7 Novi High School. 8 MR. PRESLEY: So, I will put this up 9 again. Each one of these pink, it looks 10 like purple rectangles are pieces of 11 equipment. And the dotted lines represent 12 the space around them that's necessary. So, 13 there isn't a whole lot of space that isn't 14 necessary to have this amount, this amount 15 of amenities. So, I don't know how to 16 respond other than we would have to take 17 things out in order to make a smaller 18 building. 19 MEMBER GHANNAM: Okay. Actually one 20 other question for the City. Is this under 21 a practical difficulty standard or an 22 unnecessary hardship? 23 MS. KUDLA: A nonuse variance, so it's 24 a practical difficulty.
80 1 MEMBER GHANNAM: It is a practical 2 difficulty standard. If I can ask your 3 client. And, sir, by the way, if you can 4 speak into the microphone so that everybody 5 can hear. I too appreciate obviously your 6 service for our country. You made the 7 ultimate sacrifice, one of the ultimate 8 sacrifices. But is there any other -- I 9 mean, your architect has put something on 10 the screen that shows us kind of the layout 11 of the proposed workout area and so forth. 12 Is there anything that can be reduced in 13 terms of your complete workout? I 14 understand in perfect world you would want 15 every single thing there, but is there 16 anything you can go without to make it more 17 palatable for your neighbors as well as us? 18 MR. WARDA: I don't think so. As far 19 as what takes the most room is the mats and 20 that's where, the mats is where I'll be 21 wrestling and sparing with other people. 22 And, you know, there are going to be padded 23 walls and whatnot, but if that gets smaller, 24 I mean, that just gives me more chance of
81 1 injury of hitting other equipment. Like I 2 say, I don't know if you know like judo or 3 Brazilian jujitsu, you kind of roll around 4 everywhere. 5 MEMBER GHANNAM: Actually I have a son 6 who wrestles for varsity for Novi High and I 7 know Coach Jilg and I know their workout 8 routines. 9 MR. WARDA: Right. 10 MEMBER GHANNAM: So, I understand 11 that. 12 MR. WARDA: But as far as my 13 disability, I mean, if I could be able to 14 see, yeah, I could probably shorten it up, 15 but I can't. So just to have that extra 16 space, if it's four feet on each side for 17 the mat, you know, it will help me greatly 18 and give me more confidence and make me feel 19 more comfort and whatnot. 20 MEMBER GHANNAM: I can certainly 21 appreciate that. I presume given the nature 22 of this addition you plan on living there 23 indefinitely into the future? 24 MR. WARDA: Indefinitely.
82 1 MEMBER GHANNAM: I don't have any 2 other questions, sir. Thank you. 3 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Yes, Mr. Cassis? 4 Okay, go ahead. 5 MEMBER CASSIS: Oh, okay. I do 6 reiterate also the sentiments that my 7 colleagues had mentioned about Caz's 8 situation and his sacrifice. But, you know, 9 I am wondering, putting it to our City 10 attorney, the primary use that he wants to 11 put this addition to would be a gymnasium. 12 Is that in violation of the Ordinance right 13 away as to the use rather than anything 14 else? 15 MS. KUDLA: Well, I don't think that 16 we have heard any information that he is 17 planning on using it for like a commercial 18 gymnasium with people coming over and using 19 it other than himself. So, at this point he 20 is using it as a personal exercise room is 21 what's been put forward. 22 MR. CASSIS: To the architect, can I 23 ask you a question? You have on the prints 24 here new patio per builder. What is that?
83 1 Can you explain that to me? 2 MR. PRESLEY: Well, it wasn't 3 something that I was going to design. It's 4 just a concrete patio. 5 MR. CASSIS: What does that serve? 6 What's the purpose? 7 MR. PRESLEY: Just outdoor 8 recreational space. I mean, a place to sit 9 and eat, that's all. 10 MEMBER CASSIS: And that doesn't exist 11 there right now? 12 MR. PRESLEY: Correct. 13 MEMBER CASSIS: Another question to 14 the City Attorney. Usually when there is a 15 subdivision built aren't there some bylaws 16 or whatever you call them -- what do you 17 call those? 18 MS. KUDLA: There may be a subdivision 19 declaration that discusses, it's not in 20 every subdivision. There is usually a 21 declaration of the covenants and 22 restrictions. More recent subdivisions 23 would have more in depth specifications on 24 architectural review committees and that
84 1 type of thing, but I don't know any 2 specifics with regard to this subdivision 3 and whether or not there is an architectural 4 review committee. And given that it's an 5 older subdivision, I wouldn't normally see 6 something like that. But, again, it 7 wouldn't be something that we would 8 necessarily be taking into consideration. 9 That would be their separate committee to 10 look at instead of us. 11 MEMBER CASSIS: So, you don't think we 12 need to even look at that before we consider 13 that? 14 MS. KUDLA: No, I don't. 15 MEMBER CASSIS: Okay. You know, I 16 think the subdivisions that we have built in 17 this city were meant to be in a suburban 18 kind of setting. And as such, the 19 Ordinances provided for certain green areas 20 and certain kind of amenities around the 21 house. And most of those suburban 22 communities including ours are for the 23 enjoyment of open space. Aside from also 24 the idea of fire or even drainage and so on,
85 1 which I think should have been looked at 2 before this was even brought before us, 3 because if there was some sort of, let's 4 say, violation of fire codes of this 5 extension, or drainage, then our approval -- 6 or maybe not approval, but consideration of 7 this matter would be useless. 8 MR. PRESLEY: May I respond to that? 9 MEMBER CASSIS: No, no. Wait a 10 minute. Let me finish. 11 MR. PRESLEY: Okay. 12 MEMBER CASSIS: So, I submit to Mr. 13 Boulard, I mean, what is it to what I'm 14 saying as far as bringing this before us 15 before we even consider the other 16 ramifications of this extension? 17 MR. BOULARD: When a project is 18 brought into the Community Development 19 Department, typically zoning site plans and 20 so on are the first things that are looked 21 at. If a building can't be built within the 22 setbacks or variances required or whatnot, 23 this is the first thing that gets resolved. 24 In this case as I mentioned, the Building
86 1 code does have provisions to allow 2 construction of this type. There are 3 certain provisions, though, that protect 4 adjacent properties and so on. And 5 certainly drainage, there is requirements 6 for performance of drainage. You can't 7 cause a nuisance on adjacent property. That 8 can be done in a situation like this, it is 9 not necessarily going to be easy. It 10 provides a challenge. I'm sure that's 11 something that they have thought about. 12 It's not going to be like a house where you 13 have got a hundred feet on each side. 14 In this case I think those issues 15 can be resolved, perhaps not as cleanly and 16 cheaply as everyone sees, but there are 17 resolutions in the codes for that. 18 MEMBER CASSIS: Are you saying to me 19 that you looked at the fire codes and 20 drainage codes that we have in the City and 21 you thought the construction of this 22 addition will not violate or impinge or will 23 not have to be altered? Are you telling me 24 that?
87 1 MR. BOULARD: No, I am not telling you 2 that. What I am saying is, the setbacks 3 from the property lines, the lot coverage, 4 building height, those are issues that are 5 under the purview of the Zoning Ordinance. 6 Exceptions to those are requested here. I'm 7 confident while I haven't reviewed the 8 plans, there is a lot of information, but 9 certainly not what would be appropriate for 10 a construction set of plans at this point. 11 I am confident that those issues with regard 12 to fire safety, the building codes and so on 13 can be addressed. That's, I guess -- I 14 haven't done a review. 15 MS. KUDLA: I can add a little bit to 16 that. If there was to be a problem when he 17 did do that review and something did not 18 meet one of the code standards, if they 19 couldn't resolve it some other way by 20 revising the plan, he would be going to the 21 Construction Board of Appeals for that issue 22 rather than to the ZBA when there is a 23 building code issue. 24 MEMBER CASSIS: I am a little
88 1 confused. But anyhow, Mr. Chairman, I think 2 this is a very huge addition to this house. 3 I think it could be scaled down. I am 4 looking at the patio there. I don't know 5 what the dimensions are. Did someone say 6 something? Anyhow, what are the dimensions 7 of that patio there? 8 MR. PRESLEY: I don't have the 9 dimensions in front of me but it's probably 10 10 foot by about 20 foot, something like 11 that, 15 foot maybe. 12 MEMBER CASSIS: And I am wondering if 13 the architect might come up with a scaled 14 down addition that will be at the center, if 15 I may suggest, and I cannot tell you what to 16 do, but at the center of the existing house 17 going farther from the house with a 18 reasonable addition that will accommodate 19 maybe some lifting of weights and so on and 20 so forth. And given some due respect to the 21 desire of Caz which I completely can see and 22 sympathize with and empathize with him, I 23 think something like that I would be 24 considering. But to set a certain precedent
89 1 as I had said before for other homes in that 2 subdivision to start erecting a huge 3 addition, and I'm talking here, I am looking 4 at the scales here, you are talking about 5 another two-thirds addition to that house. 6 That is a very extensive addition. And I 7 would not vote in favor of this addition, 8 Mr. Chairman. Thank you very much. 9 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. Yes, 10 Mr. Bauer? 11 MEMBER BAUER: There is already a 12 non-conforming structure. And if we went 13 ahead with this we would just be throwing 14 our Ordinances out the door because we would 15 be adding to a non-conforming structure. 16 Second, the Applicant has stated 17 that he will be having some people over to 18 wrestle with and that brings up a question 19 of parking and whether this is going to be a 20 resort of some kind. As far as the 21 structure is concerned, I think it is far 22 and above what would be normal for a small 23 addition. It's not small at all. You could 24 probably buy a house somewhere else what you
90 1 are giving this room, and I would not be in 2 favor of this. 3 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. Yes, 4 Mr. Ibe? 5 MEMBER IBE: First of all, let me say 6 to Caz that we owe you a debt of gratitude, 7 and say thank you very much for your service 8 to our nation. I commend you for what you 9 have done and what you continue to do for 10 us. Because of you and all that's like you, 11 we are able to enjoy a great freedom in this 12 country. I appreciate what you have done. 13 However, having said that, I must -- I 14 feel bad by what we see here because I know 15 that you did not ask for this. This was 16 thrust upon you due to the nature and 17 circumstances of your work. 18 I am a firm believer in private 19 property rights. And I don't like to 20 infringe upon it whatsoever. We have to 21 look at what you are asking for from this 22 Board and see under what conditions can this 23 be granted. There are some elements that 24 controls whether or not we can grant this
91 1 variance. And I will run by those real 2 quickly because that will be the basis upon 3 which my decision will be made. And I'm 4 quite sure that other Board members will 5 make the same decision based on the existing 6 law that we have to go by. And I will only 7 touch on the key ones that really, I think, 8 are more pertinent to the issue before us. 9 The first one is, will the variance 10 provide substantial justice to you the 11 Petitioner as well as the surrounding 12 property owners in the zoning district? I 13 think I will answer that question, as to you 14 maybe, yes. But as to your neighbors, the 15 answer is unequivocally no. We have seen 16 some neighbors come forward. I know it 17 pains those neighbors to come forward even 18 to object. The gentleman, the second 19 speaker I think was quite emotional while 20 objecting because he hates to do what he is 21 doing. Unfortunately, he has to look out 22 for his own interest as well. 23 The next element is, are there unique 24 circumstances of the property? Well,
92 1 considering your current situation, that 2 makes it unique. I do agree that, yes, 3 there are some unique circumstances here. 4 But that is not the only element to be 5 considered. 6 The third one is, is the problem self 7 created? With all fairness to you I say no, 8 because you did not ask for this, like I 9 said earlier. So, you could not have asked 10 for your situation to warrant what you now 11 set to construct on your property. However, 12 remember, that is still not the only element 13 that we have to consider. 14 I am looking at the next one which 15 says, adequate light and air is provided to 16 adjacent properties. Your neighbors have 17 come forward and they have eloquently 18 articulated their reasons for their 19 objection. And one of them being that the 20 light and air of the properties will be 21 affected by the variance that you are 22 requesting. This new construction will 23 impede them getting enough air. I am sure 24 the homeowners there enjoy the outdoors and
93 1 enjoy looking at the sunset and sunrise. I 2 am sure no one bought their property so they 3 can see the backyard of someone else. 4 Unfortunately, I don't believe that if we 5 were to apply this that it will work in your 6 favor. 7 The next being, there will be an 8 increase of fire, danger and public safety. 9 I think my colleagues have adequately 10 discussed that issue and based on what I am 11 hearing I don't believe that the City do you 12 any justice. They have not given me any 13 reason to be comfortable as to whether or 14 not, that the question of fire, danger or 15 public safety has been addressed. And I 16 don't believe your architect did any justice 17 to that issue either in his presentation. 18 So I am not sold on that issue. 19 The next one is, whether the property 20 values will not be diminished within the 21 surrounding area. I think that is very 22 important. We as we sit here today 23 underestimate the problem we have in this 24 country right now in our neighborhoods. Our
94 1 property values have greatly diminished. 2 Now, if you were allowed to build what you 3 want on your property, let's respect your 4 property rights. How about the rights of 5 your neighbor? Now, if you can't sell your 6 property right now, imagine what it would 7 look like when you have some property that 8 doesn't conform to the neighborhood, you 9 will not be able to sell your property even 10 five years from now. So definitely allowing 11 this variance will not increase the property 12 values. It will only diminish the property 13 values of your neighbors as well as that of 14 your property because your property will now 15 be far more bigger than your neighbors. 16 Remember the old saying, never buy the big 17 house in the -- buy the small house in a big 18 neighborhood. Is that what it says? You 19 are trying to put in this neighborhood 20 something that is far more bigger than that 21 which will be expected. 22 Finally, whether the spirit of the 23 Zoning Ordinance is observed. As much as I 24 want to give this to you, unfortunately
95 1 considering the guidelines that I have to 2 abide by and I am sure that my colleagues 3 here also have to abide by, it makes it very 4 difficult. 5 The standard here is practical 6 difficulty. Unfortunately, I don't see 7 anything in here that will make it easy for 8 me to grant what you are asking and also 9 please your neighbors. We want to create a 10 happy neighborhood. 11 And I am also very disturbed that the 12 architect did not bring a letter from the 13 subdivision president who gives this 14 unilateral -- 15 MR. PRESLEY: Yeah, I did. 16 MEMBER IBE: Do you have that? 17 MR. PRESLEY: Yes, we have that. 18 MEMBER IBE: Was it part of -- we 19 don't have it. 20 MEMBER BAUER: We don't have that. 21 MEMBER IBE: Notwithstanding that, 22 but the neighbors here said no one has 23 informed them of this. Obviously this is 24 the first that they are hearing of this
96 1 unilateral decision made by the subdivision 2 president. 3 I am so sorry, sir, that I cannot in 4 good conscious. But if you can scale this 5 down I think that every one of us here will 6 be more than happy to accommodate your needs 7 because we understand that you need to have 8 a life, and I want to make sure you get 9 that. However, you don't give us very much 10 choice here. 11 May I make a suggestion that perhaps 12 you and your architects can go back and work 13 something out that maybe can accommodate the 14 needs you want. And also talk to your 15 neighbors. I find that sometimes in 16 conflict resolution talking to our neighbors 17 help before we bring it forward to a public 18 forum. Maybe that can help. And then bring 19 this back to us if you can bring something 20 that your neighbors can live with and that 21 you can live with. 22 That is my suggestion. Thank you, Mr. 23 Chair. I didn't mean to go very long. 24 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: That's okay.
97 1 Thank you. Yes, Ms. Krieger? 2 MEMBER KRIEGER: I agree with all my 3 previous speakers. And, Member Ibe, that's 4 what I was thinking as well was to go 5 through the guidelines. 6 A question that I have, that I would 7 like explained is, for this addition that if 8 you are working on one mat then why need all 9 the other mats unless you are having a lot 10 of people over? Which comes back to the 11 question of the parking in the front. So, 12 that would be another disturbance. 13 So, I would be willing as well, if the 14 architect and the Petitioner would, to table 15 this and go back and come back with 16 something that would be more acceptable. 17 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. Yes, 18 Mr. Wrobel? 19 VICE-CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: I have a 20 question for the City Attorney. Obviously 21 Mr. Cassis and I, spending time on the 22 Planning Commission we tend to look at 23 things more comprehensively than we are 24 here. When I look at this case we are
98 1 basically looking at dimensional variances 2 in this case. Should we be concerned or 3 included in our reasoning and our discussion 4 things like fire safety, drainage, things of 5 that issue or should we just stick to the 6 dimensional variances that is before us? 7 MS. KUDLA: Fire safety would affect 8 the surrounding property owners and that 9 type of thing, so I think that's an 10 appropriate discussion. Whether or not it's 11 going to be used as more of a commercial in 12 nature type thing I don't think that's 13 appropriate for this. 14 VICE-CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: I just wasn't sure 15 how strict we had to stay on, this is what's 16 presented to us. But we're used to looking 17 at -- 18 MS. KUDLA: Well, you are looking at 19 how it affects the surrounding property too. 20 So, if fire concern given that these houses 21 are close together is something that you see 22 as a concern, that's an appropriate 23 discussion. 24 VICE-CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Okay. Thank
99 1 you. 2 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Anybody else? 3 Well, the way I see it it's not going your 4 way. And if you like us to table it and you 5 would like to come back with some different 6 kind of proposal we would be quite open to 7 table this for a future date. 8 MR. PRESLEY: We would appreciate 9 that. 10 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Otherwise we can 11 go ahead and vote on this as it is 12 presented. 13 MR. PRESLEY: We would like you to 14 table it, please. We will come back again. 15 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. 16 MEMBER BAUER: I move that we table 17 this. MEMBER IBE: Second. 18 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: The motion has 19 been made to table this case for a future 20 date to be determined. The motion has been 21 made and seconded. If there is no further 22 discussion on this motion -- Yes, Mr. 23 Boulard? 24 MR. BOULARD: I guess the question
100 1 that I have deals with the particular 2 requirements of the law in terms of 3 notification. My understanding is that if 4 tabling is to take place until a specified 5 date we don't have to re-notice everyone, 6 resend out notices. 7 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Well, I don't 8 want to set a date because I want to give 9 the Applicant as well as the neighbors to 10 talk to each other, come to some kind of 11 understanding. And this may take longer 12 than we think. So one month may be not 13 enough. How long will it take for you to 14 resolve or come to some kind of 15 understanding about your proposal? 16 MR. PRESLEY: I don't know. I think 17 you are correct. We are going to have to go 18 back to the drawing board obviously and then 19 we will need to show it to the neighbors, I 20 think. 21 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: I think you need 22 better communication than it has been so 23 far. 24 MR. PRESLEY: Right. So, I don't
101 1 know. 2 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: So, I don't want 3 to set a date on it. Yes? 4 MEMBER GHANNAM: The only suggestion I 5 would have is if we could set a date, it 6 would obviate the necessity of expending the 7 cost by the City in notifying everybody. It 8 is a very significant cost I would think. 9 If you think you would need two to three 10 months or even longer. 11 MR. PRESLEY: I think -- what is the 12 deadline? How many weeks ahead? 13 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: What is the 14 stipulated time for re-advertising? 15 MS. KUDLA: Well, if we have a date 16 certain we don't have to re-advertise. If 17 we don't have a date certain we have to 18 re-advertise. 19 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: So, it doesn't 20 matter how along, so long as it is a date? 21 MS. KUDLA: A specific date. 22 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Okay. 23 MR. PRESLEY: I think we can come back 24 in August. I think that's very possible.
102 1 But is it two weeks ahead? Is it two weeks 2 ahead that it has to be? 3 MS. MARTIN: You are going to be too 4 late to make it for August, but you can make 5 the September 8th meeting. 6 MR. PRESLEY: All right. September 7 8th, then we are good for that. 8 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: You will be 9 better off doing it in September. Okay, we 10 will postpone it to the September meeting. 11 Is that amendment acceptable to both of you? 12 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 13 MEMBER IBE: Yes. 14 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. All 15 right, will you please call the roll. 16 MS. MARTIN: Could I ask who second 17 the motion? 18 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Mr. Bauer. 19 MS. MARTIN: Then who made the motion 20 then? Because I have that mixed up. 21 MEMBER IBE: I seconded the motion. 22 MS. MARTIN: You second the motion. 23 Thank you. 24 Member Bauer?
103 1 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 2 MS. MARTIN: Member Cassis? 3 MEMBER CASSIS: Yes. 4 MS. MARTIN: Member Ghannam? 5 MEMBER GHANNAM: Yes. 6 MS. MARTIN: Member Ibe? 7 MEMBER IBE: Yes. 8 MS. MARTIN: Member Krieger? 9 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes. 10 MS. MARTIN: Chairman Sanghvi? 11 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Yes. 12 MS. MARTIN: Member Wrobel? 13 VICE-CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Yes. 14 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Okay, we will 15 see you in September. 16 MR. PRESLEY: Thank you. 17 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you all 18 for your patience and participation. Thank 19 you. 20 Moving on to the next case on the 21 agenda. Case number: 09-029, 45285 Grand 22 River Avenue. Diane Planko of Planko Ballet 23 and Sports is requesting a variance to 24 permit the installation of an indoor
104 1 recreation private dance and fitness center 2 in an existing tenant space in a building 3 located 45285 Grand River without installing 4 any additional parking spaces as required by 5 the Zoning Ordinance. The property is zoned 6 I-1 and is located south of Grand River 7 Avenue and east of Taft Road. The building 8 is designed to accommodate more than one 9 tenant and is currently partially occupied 10 by Michigan Chandelier. 11 Is the Applicant here? 12 MS. PLANKO: Yes. 13 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Will you please 14 identify yourself. State your name and 15 address and if you are not an attorney be 16 sworn in by our Secretary, please. 17 MS. PLANKO: My name is Diane Planko, 18 42140 Cherry Hill Road. 19 MEMBER BAUER: Raise your right hand. 20 Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth 21 regarding Case: 09-029? 22 MS. PLANKO: Yes. 23 MEMBER BAUER: Thank you. 24 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Please go ahead
105 1 and make your presentation. 2 MS. PLANKO: Yes. We would like to 3 lease a property for the ballet and sports 4 conditioning center which at this time we 5 are a small private organization that we use 6 two trainers and never more than eight 7 trainees at a time. So, we have 16 clients 8 at any time in the evening because they are 9 in high school and college. And the 10 facility we would like to lease has, it's a 11 complex with 76 spaces. Thirty-five of the 12 spaces go to the facility that we would like 13 to lease, and, of course, we would need 19 14 of those spaces. 15 The Ordinance for Novi says that 16 for that amount of space you need to have 54 17 spaces. Well, I would love to have 54 18 people, but it's not going to happen. So, I 19 would like to request the variance be 20 changed so that we could use 19 of the 35 21 parking spaces. Thank you. 22 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. Is 23 there anybody in the audience who would like 24 to address the Board regarding this case?
106 1 (No response.) 2 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Seeing none, Mr. 3 Secretary, do you have some correspondence 4 for us? 5 MEMBER BAUER: Thirty-six notices were 6 mailed. Five were returned. Seven 7 approvals. 8 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. 9 Building Department? 10 MR. BOULARD: In your packet there is 11 included a staff report prepared by Kristen 12 Kapelanski which runs through the 13 requirements and the calculations for the 14 parking. Kristen is also here if you have 15 any questions. She is available for that. 16 So, thank you. 17 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Very good. 18 Thank you. I will open it up to the Board 19 now. I have a question? How much space are 20 you going to be using for your studio? 21 MS. PLANKO: The facility is 6,200 22 square feet because there is office area and 23 warehouse area, which the training will be 24 in the warehouse area which I believe that
107 1 part is 3,200 square feet. 2 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Very good. 3 Which part of that property are you going to 4 be using? I was there this afternoon trying 5 to figure out which one was -- I saw signs 6 everywhere of different companies. 7 MS. PLANKO: We're in the very back 8 where there was the grass on the west 9 side -- 10 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: 11 (Unintelligible). 12 MS. PLANKO: Yes, yes. In that area. 13 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: I know where it 14 is. Thank you. 15 Yes, Mr. Wrobel? 16 VICE-CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Thank you, 17 Mr. Chair. Ms. Kapelanski, just so you just 18 don't have to sit here, we might as well use 19 your expertise. The existing warehouse and 20 showroom I assume Michigan Chandelier is 21 staying there, correct? 22 MS. KAPELANSKI: Correct. 23 VICE-CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: And the 24 warehouse is that Michigan Chandelier's
108 1 also? 2 MS. KAPELANSKI: The warehouse space 3 that's calculated into the parking 4 requirements would be the space for Michigan 5 Chandelier. 6 VICE-CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Okay, and if 7 I do recall they're only open during the 8 day? 9 MS. KAPELANSKI: It's our 10 understanding they're open until about 5:00 11 or 5:30. 12 VICE-CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: I know in 13 trying to go there sometimes it's difficult 14 because they are not open. 15 Your opinion on the parking situation 16 given the projected hours of operation of 17 this establishment? 18 MS. KAPELANSKI: Well, the Applicant 19 has made the argument that they are open in 20 the evenings and the Michigan Chandelier 21 space is open during the day. It's the 22 Planning Staff's opinion that that would 23 signal -- well, we would prefer that the 24 Applicant complete and submit a shared
109 1 parking study to show that the spaces are 2 used at the different times and to 3 demonstrate that there is the adequate 4 parking available at each of those peak 5 hours. 6 The Applicant alternatively decided to 7 come to the Zoning Board of Appeals and seek 8 a variance for the overall parking standard. 9 So, the Planning Staff would have preferred 10 a shared parking study to demonstrate that 11 those users would have adequate parking in 12 each of their peak hours. 13 VICE-CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Do you 14 believe that doing the parking study does 15 that put an undue burden upon the Applicant 16 in this situation? 17 MS. KAPELANSKI: It is a cost to hire 18 a traffic consultant and to complete a 19 shared parking study. I can't speak to what 20 the cost of that would be specifically. So, 21 it is a little bit of a burden in that 22 sense. And then they would have to pay for 23 review fees to be reviewed by our traffic 24 consultant and Planning Staff and then go to
110 1 the Planning Commission. So, there is some 2 cost associated with that, but I can't speak 3 to that exactly. 4 VICE-CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Okay. Based 5 on knowing the way the building is currently 6 used, but that's not to say that the 7 current, Michigan Chandelier could change 8 their hours tomorrow, it's highly unlikely, 9 but you never know in this environment. 10 You know, if I knew a 100 percent that 11 they were going to stay the same I would say 12 this wouldn't be an issue, and I still 13 might, but I would like hear what my other 14 colleagues have to say on it. Thank you. 15 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Yes, Mr. Cassis? 16 MEMBER CASSIS: Mr. Chairman, I am 17 wondering whether this issue should be 18 coming before the Planning Commission as a 19 venue rather than coming here first? 20 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Well, I don't 21 know the response to that. 22 MS. KUDLA: I mean there is two 23 options. It's the Applicant's choice to 24 which one she wants to apply to. She has
111 1 the option to apply to the ZBA for a 2 variance and that's what she chose. 3 MEMBER CASSIS: As we can see, we have 4 to have a Planner here to augment our 5 situation. It's kind of unique. A hybrid 6 kind of situation if I may use that word. 7 On the other hand, I can see what the 8 Applicant is trying to do. They don't want 9 to go through the expense of having that, 10 which I appreciate. However, you may come 11 before the Planning Commission, and I am 12 there too as a planning commissioner, and 13 they might say, well, look, we don't need a 14 traffic study. And I think that may happen. 15 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: The other likely 16 scenario is also that you would approve it 17 with the condition that the Zoning Board of 18 Appeals approves it. 19 MEMBER CASSIS: But at least we would 20 have -- 21 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: We could have 22 bypassed the whole situation about the 23 study, yes. 24 MEMBER CASSIS: That's all I am going
112 1 to say at this time. Thank you. 2 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Yes, go ahead. 3 MS. KAPELANSKI: If I could just jump 4 in on that for just a second. In order to 5 come to the Planning Commission, the 6 Planning Commission would need to have 7 something to review. In this case it would 8 be a shared parking study. So, the 9 Applicant would have had to prepare the 10 shared parking study and come to the 11 Planning Commission or chose the ZBA route. 12 I don't think we could take it to the 13 Planning Commission for approval of a 14 preliminary site plan in this case since the 15 Applicant isn't making any exterior changes 16 and it is a permanent use. 17 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. Yes, 18 Mr. Ghannam? 19 MEMBER GHANNAM: Thank you, Mr. Chair. 20 I just have a couple of questions. What are 21 your peak hours of service? 22 MS. PLANKO: From 4:30 to 5:30 it's 23 private instruction so it's one or two 24 clients with one instructor. So, that's
113 1 three parking spaces. 5:30 -- I have it all 2 here somewhere. 5:30 to 7:00 I believe it 3 is is when we start with a group instruction 4 which would be eight clients with one 5 instructor. Or if there are two instructors 6 there, 16 clients. We never go more than 7 that because it's a safety issue at that 8 point. You have to be there. And then, 9 again, another 16 clients later in the 10 evening. 11 MEMBER GHANNAM: So, 5:30 to 7:00 -- 12 MS. PLANKO: 7:00 to 9:30 would be the 13 next one. 14 MEMBER GHANNAM: Plus, we don't really 15 know the hours of operation, we don't know 16 how long Michigan Chandelier would be there, 17 so on and so forth. I don't have any issue 18 necessarily with needing a traffic study. I 19 think the City in some of the memorandums we 20 have gotten indicate that if you limit your 21 maximum occupancy to 19 people as you have 22 apparently applied that -- 23 MS. PLANKO: And so much of it is drop 24 off also because we do keep a client for an
114 1 hour and a half. These parents they have 2 other -- like their boys are off at the high 3 school or wherever, so they are all over. 4 We kind of have the client not people 5 actually. And the Ann Arbor skating group, 6 they carpool. So, we might have four coming 7 from Ann Arbor in one car. 8 MEMBER GHANNAM: Once we grant it, you 9 are going to have different clients 10 changing. I am kind of leaning towards this 11 under the circumstances if you limit your 12 occupancy. But you do not do business prior 13 to 4:30 p.m. on any particular day? 14 MS. PLANKO: On the weekends we will 15 be there earlier, but other than that it 16 could be a private lesson. 17 MEMBER GHANNAM: You would schedule 18 those separately? 19 MS. PLANKO: It depends on if like if 20 you -- perfect example, one of the ice 21 skaters is an adult, she is 40. So, she may 22 be working that evening. She will come 23 maybe 1:30 in the afternoon. It's one 24 person.
115 1 MEMBER GHANNAM: Do you do group 2 sessions any earlier that 4:30? 3 MS. PLANKO: No. Because they are not 4 available. The high school has them or the 5 university has them. 6 MEMBER GHANNAM: What about the 7 weekends? 8 MS. PLANKO: The weekends, if we do, 9 it's usually a very small group again. 10 MEMBER GHANNAM: But you will do that 11 during the day? 12 MS. PLANKO: Yeah, there may be some 13 Saturday, some Sunday under special 14 circumstances. You know, the skaters will 15 have some big competition coming and they 16 will want to come in the week before or 17 whatever. 18 MEMBER GHANNAM: My preference would 19 be the traffic study, but I think under the 20 circumstances I think that would be a very 21 expensive situation given the circumstances. 22 So, I think at this point I would be 23 inclined to grant your request. 24 I don't have anything else. Thank
116 1 you. 2 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: If I remember 3 correctly, this is the part of a mini 4 business center, isn't it? On the other 5 side of the -- the east side of the building 6 has a different group of tenants that move 7 in from time to time? 8 MS. PLANKO: Yes, McNish Sporting 9 Goods, Sherwin Williams Pant, us and 10 Michigan Chandelier. Maybe us. 11 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: They are using 12 the same parking lot? 13 MS. PLANKO: Yes, there is actually 76 14 spaces in the entire lot. 15 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: But this is not 16 just for Michigan Chandelier and you, there 17 are other people? 18 MS. PLANKO: The spaces that are 19 Michigan Chandelier and us is 35 spaces. 20 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: There is a 21 cross reciprocal parking agreement 22 (unintelligible). 23 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Yes, Ms. 24 Krieger?
117 1 MEMBER KRIEGER: Parking, there seems 2 to be enough parking and then as the 3 Petitioner has stated there won't be an 4 issue. My concern would be the safety that 5 there is so many different buildings. I 6 went there today at 2:30. There was a bus 7 parked at the Grand River area so if you 8 wanted to turn right that would be of 9 concern, the amount of traffic that was 10 there. Of course, after 4:30 might be a 11 different situation. But I know I made 12 somebody upset with Michigan Chandelier and 13 a truck today because I had my car in the 14 wrong spot. So, I would be worried about 15 people coming in and out at 4:30 rush hour 16 at Grand River and Taft how to make that 17 more safe. And that's where I'm at right 18 now. 19 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. Any 20 further discussion? Yes, Mr. Ibe? 21 MEMBER IBE: To the Planning 22 Department. 23 I am not sure if you have the answer to this 24 question. Do you have an idea of how much a
118 1 parking study cost? 2 MS. KAPELANSKI: No, I can't speak to 3 that at all. 4 MEMBER IBE: Not even an approximation 5 of how much it runs from just general 6 experience? 7 MS. KAPELANSKI: No, I can't really 8 speak to that. 9 MEMBER IBE: To the Applicant, do you 10 have an idea of how much it costs? 11 MS. PLANKO: I heard that they cost 12 between one and five thousand dollars. 13 MEMBER IBE: How long is the term of 14 the lease you are going to sign? How long 15 is the term, do you know? 16 MEMBER KRIEGER: Five years. 17 MEMBER IBE: Five years. 18 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Okay. 19 MEMBER IBE: Thank you. 20 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Anybody 21 interested in saying anything or making a 22 motion? I think the basic issue here is is 23 there going to be adequate parking space 24 there? That is the main issue or the only
119 1 issue. And if you go by the timing 2 suggested by the Applicant her studio is 3 going to be operating, probably there is 4 going to be enough parking. 5 MS. PLANKO: If I may interject. 6 Also, I did go to McNish and to Sherwin 7 Williams and I do believe they both did send 8 letters saying that they have no problem 9 with us using the parking area because they 10 are closed when we are open. 11 MEMBER CASSIS: Mr. Chairman? 12 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Yes. 13 MEMBER CASSIS: You know, I think I 14 would be inclined to go along with this. I 15 am familiar with the property. That parking 16 lot is always mostly empty. 17 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Empty. 18 MEMBER CASSIS: McNish gets a customer 19 here and there. Michigan Chandelier is the 20 same. If there is no real change of 21 ownership in those two buildings -- is it 22 industrial use? 23 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Yes. 24 MR. BOULARD: Yes.
120 1 MEMBER CASSIS: In the future there 2 might be a change of use there which might 3 conflict. That would be one of my 4 hesitations. Other than, I thought she 5 could have at least priced a study and 6 presented that to us. It could have been a 7 thousand dollars and not five thousand. 8 However, with all of this and my first query 9 about whether she should have gone to the 10 Planning Commission first, but the lovely 11 planner that we have here said, no, that's 12 okay. So, I am inclined to go along with 13 this. 14 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Very good. 15 MEMBER CASSIS: If someone else would 16 make a motion. 17 VICE-CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: I've 18 got another question because McNish was 19 brought up, and just listening to the radio 20 and TV I will throw this as a general 21 question to anyone. It's my understanding 22 they are going out of business? 23 MEMBER CASSIS: McNish? 24 VICE-CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Yes, they
121 1 are closing everything out. If that being 2 the case, do we know if anyone is going to 3 move in there? And what kind of business 4 are they going to come in with? And that 5 could throw a wrench in the whole situation. 6 I am inclined to go along with this now, but 7 the what if is still hanging out there and 8 it's looming large at this time, I believe. 9 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: I think let us 10 cross that bridge when we get there. 11 MEMBER IBE: Mr. Chair? 12 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Yes. 13 MEMBER IBE: This is to the City maybe 14 and maybe to the Attorney. If we are 15 inclined to grant this is it possible that 16 we place a condition other than the 19 17 spaces that's required, assuming there is 18 some kind of drastic change to the property 19 itself in terms of new tenants? Is that 20 possible? I'm not sure if it is or not. 21 MEMBER BAUER: McNish is on the other 22 side. 23 MEMBER IBE: It's on the other side, 24 right?
122 1 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 2 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: It's a different 3 building. 4 MEMBER IBE: It's a different 5 building. 6 (Interposing)(Unintelligible). 7 MEMBER GHANNAM: I am going to make a 8 motion. 9 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Okay, go ahead. 10 MEMBER GHANNAM: I'll go ahead and 11 move in Case Number: 09-029 for 45285 Grand 12 River that the Petitioner's petition for a 13 variance for parking spaces is granted as 14 presented. I will add the conditions that 15 the maximum occupancy at any time is going 16 to be 19 people including employees, 17 instructors as well as customers. That the 18 variance will be valid during the term of 19 your lease. You said you are going to sign 20 a five year lease, so it will be valid for 21 that time. I believe you have met the 22 practical difficulty standards. It's in 23 conformity with the Zoning Ordinances and 24 it's not self created issues and I think the
123 1 other portions of the requirements are met. 2 VICE-CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Second. 3 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. The 4 motion has been made and seconded. Is there 5 any further discussion? Seeing none, Ms. 6 Martin, you call the roll, please. 7 MS. MARTIN: Member Bauer? 8 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 9 MS. MARTIN: Member Cassis? 10 MEMBER CASSIS: Yes. 11 MS. MARTIN: Member Ghannam? 12 MEMBER GHANNAM: Yes. 13 MS. MARTIN: Member Ibe? 14 MEMBER IBE: Yes. 15 MS. MARTIN: Member Krieger? 16 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes. 17 MS. MARTIN: Chairman Sanghvi? 18 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Yes. 19 MS. MARTIN: And Member Wrobel? 20 VICE-CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Yes. 21 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. 22 Congratulations and best of luck. 23 MS. PLANKO: Thank you. 24 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Any other
124 1 business to be discussed tonight? 2 VICE-CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Motion to 3 adjourn. 4 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Very good, thank 5 you. (Unintelligible). The motion has been 6 made -- 7 MEMBER BAUER: Second. 8 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: And seconded by 9 Mr. Bauer. And all those who approve of the 10 motion please signify by saying aye? 11 BOARD MEMBERS: Aye. 12 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: The meeting is 13 adjourned. 14 (The meeting was adjourned at 15 9:20 p.m.) 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24
125 1 C E R T I F I C A T E 2 3 4 5 I, Mona L. Talton, do hereby certify 6 that I have recorded stenographically the 7 proceedings had and testimony taken in the 8 above-entitled matter at the time and place 9 hereinbefore set forth, and I do further 10 certify that the foregoing transcript, 11 consisting of (103) typewritten pages, is a 12 true and correct transcript of my said 13 stenographic notes. 14 15 16 17 18 19 _____________________________ 20 Mona L. Talton, 21 Certified Shorthand Reporter 22 23 24 July 31, 2009
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