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MEETING - ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS Proceedings had and testimony taken in the matters of the ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS, at City of Novi, 45175 West Ten Mile Road, Novi, Michigan, Tuesday, March 17, 2009. BOARD MEMBERS ALSO PRESENT: REPORTED BY: 1 Novi, Michigan 2 Tuesday, March 17, 2009 3 7:00 p.m. 4 - - - - - - 5 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Having the clock 6 say 7:00 p.m., I would like to call to order 7 the March 17, 2009 meeting of the Zoning 8 Board of Appeals for the City of Novi. 9 Would you please all rise and join me 10 in the pledge of allegiance. 11 BOARD MEMBERS: I pledge allegiance to 12 the flag of the United States of America and 13 to the Republic for which it stands, one 14 nation under God indivisible with liberty 15 and justice for all. 16 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you, and 17 Happy St. Patrick's Day. What a glorious 18 day. And I don't know what we are doing 19 here rather than celebrating. We are all a 20 little bit of Irish I can see all around. 21 MEMBER BAUER: Why don't we suspend 22 this? 23 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Well, I wish I 24 could. Believe me, if I could I would.
4 1 Mr. Boulard, would you kindly call the 2 roll. 3 MR. BOULARD: Member Bauer? 4 MEMBER BAUER: Present. 5 MR. BOULARD: Chairman Sanghvi? 6 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Here. 7 MR. BOULARD: Member Wrobel? 8 VICE-CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Here. 9 MR. BOULARD: Member Skelcy? 10 MEMBER SKELCY: Here. 11 MR. BOULARD: Member Ghannam? 12 MEMBER GHANNAM: Present. 13 MR. BOULARD: Member Krieger? 14 MEMBER KRIEGER: Here. 15 MR. BOULARD: Member Ibe? 16 MEMBER IBE: Present. 17 MR. BOULARD: Member Cassis? 18 MEMBER CASSIS: Here. 19 MR. BOULARD: We have a quorum. 20 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. So, 21 we do have a quorum and the meeting is now 22 in session. 23 I would like to go over the formality 24 of going over the rules of conduct. You can
5 1 find them on the agenda. 2 Just a friendly reminder. Please turn 3 off all your cell phones and pagers. 4 Individual Applicants may take 5 five minutes and groups may take up to 10 6 minutes to address the Board. Zoning Board 7 of Appeals is a Hearing Board empowered by 8 the Novi City Charter to hear appeals 9 seeking variances from the application of 10 the Novi Zoning Ordinances. 11 It takes a vote of at least four 12 members to approve a variance and usually 13 takes a vote of the majority of members 14 present to deny a variance. Tonight we are 15 a full Board so all decisions made tonight 16 will be final. 17 Let's look at the agenda. Are there 18 any changes to the agenda, Mr. Boulard? 19 MR. BOULARD: Mr. Chairman, two, if 20 you will notice in the folders at your seat, 21 two applicants have requested tabling until 22 the April meeting of the Zoning Board of 23 Appeals. Boyne Country Sports and 24 Providence Hospital.
6 1 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Okay. The Chair 2 will entertain a motion to approve the 3 agenda as amended. 4 MEMBER BAUER: So moved. 5 MEMBER GHANNAM: I'll second. 6 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Seconded. All 7 those in favor say aye? 8 BOARD MEMBERS: Aye. 9 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: All those 10 opposed signify by saying the same sign? 11 (No response.) 12 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: We have an 13 agenda. We also have Minutes from February 14 2009 meeting. Are there any changes to the 15 Minutes or anybody wants to make any 16 comments about it? 17 (No response.) 18 MEMBER BAUER: I'll move to approve. 19 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Okay. A motion 20 has been made to approve the Minutes as 21 presented. 22 VICE-CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Second. 23 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: And seconded. 24 All those in favor please signify by saying
7 1 aye? 2 BOARD MEMBERS: Aye. 3 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: All those 4 opposed same sign? 5 (No response.) 6 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. 7 At this time the meeting is open for 8 public remarks session. Is there anyone in 9 the audience who would like to make a 10 comment not pertaining to any matter on the 11 agenda tonight? This is the time to come 12 forward and make your presentation. 13 (No response.) 14 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Seeing none, we 15 will close the public remarks section. 16 17 And this brings us to the first 18 case on the agenda and that is case number: 19 09-003, 44125 Twelve Mile Road-E124 Fusion 20 Health and Fitness Clubs. Is the Applicant 21 here? 22 MR. LAVANWAY: Yes. I am Larry 23 LaVanway. Good evening, ladies and 24 gentleman.
8 1 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. 2 LaVanway Sign Company is requesting a 3 variance to allow installation of 114.7 4 square foot wall sign or a variance to allow 5 an alterative method of sign area 6 calculations for Fusion Health & Fitness 7 Clubs, a suite within Twelve Mile Crossing. 8 The property is zoned RC and located west of 9 Novi Road and south of Twelve Mile Road. 10 Would you identify yourself and be 11 sworn in by our Secretary, please. 12 MR. LAVANWAY: Yes, I will -- 13 MEMBER BAUER: Raise your right hand. 14 Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth 15 regarding case: 003? 16 MR. LAVANWAY: Yes, I do. 17 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Go ahead and 18 make your presentation. 19 MR. LAVANWAY: Once again my name is 20 Larry LaVanway from LaVanway Sign and good 21 evening to you all. If you look at the 22 verbiage in Section 28.1 it's very specific 23 that any signs, the square surface, the 24 square area of a sign is only computed by a
9 1 geometric shape such as a circle, triangle 2 or parallelogram. 3 If you look at this sign -- first of 4 all, let me say, we probably all use over a 5 period of time in communicating with people 6 things like, oh, well, it's house shaped or 7 something is pie shaped. People consider 8 those as shapes. And I suppose depending on 9 what type of house, you have a picture it's 10 a two-story house with a roof on it. It is 11 a shape. It is not unfortunately a 12 recognized geometric shape. 13 And this location of this sign on the 14 east elevation of the Fusion Health Club is 15 some four to five hundred foot away to the 16 west of the public road Donelson Road. What 17 I have tried to indicate by my main sheet 18 here is that if one -- 19 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Excuse me, sir, 20 can you put it on the overhead projector 21 there so people at home can see? 22 MR. LAVANWAY: That if we take the 23 large rectangle and merely draw a continuous 24 line inside encompassing the whole sign, we
10 1 would at a minimum knock out a total of 2 three yellow areas. 3 The reason the sign in the drawing has 4 at the very top a dimension of 91.75 inches 5 for the vertical height of the sign is not 6 anything you see in this portion. It is the 7 fact that the logo of Fusion Health & 8 Fitness Clubs is a man figure whose arms are 9 almost holding a globe of the world and the 10 waist and legs of the man go down a pretty 11 far amount below the bottom of the balance 12 of the sign, about 31.25 inches. 13 So, what I would like the Board to 14 consider either in the form of a variance or 15 something is if one makes a consistent 16 straight line shape as close as possible 17 around the characters, he would be coming up 18 here, here, up here. And not even taking 19 out anything for here, if you just take out 20 some area of this sign where there, in fact, 21 is no sign. I have a table over here and 22 those four, I believe four yellow areas 23 total up, add up to 41.7 square feet that's 24 outside the continuous line that encompasses
11 1 the sign. 2 It's not indicated in the code that 3 something like this is allowed to look at a 4 shape like this, and that's one of the 5 reasons I'm here tonight to seek a variance 6 for this, for this sign. 7 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Okay. That's 8 it? 9 MR. LAVANWAY: Yes, sir. 10 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. Is 11 there anybody in the audience who would like 12 to address the Board regarding this case? 13 (No response.) 14 CHAIRPERSON SNAGHVI: Seeing none, we 15 will close the public remarks session and I 16 would request our Secretary, Mr. Bauer, to 17 tell us about any correspondences in this 18 case. 19 MEMBER BAUER: There were 39 mails 20 that went out. One response from Barry 21 Sajunu (ph) of Novi. And he is in favor of 22 it. 23 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Okay, very good. 24 Thank you.
12 1 Building Department, any comments? 2 MR. BOULARD: Just a couple of 3 comments. As the Petitioner referenced, the 4 application was submitted basically 5 challenging the manner of the calculation of 6 the sign. I realize all municipal 7 Ordinances aren't written the same. In this 8 particular case I think the Ordinance is 9 clearly and consistently being interpreted 10 in all fairness. 11 However, in order to give the Board 12 leeway to grant a variance if they saw fit, 13 the advertisement, the notice that was put 14 in the paper did include a variance for the 15 114.7 square feet, if indeed you were to 16 want to consider that. 17 Any other questions I would be happy 18 to answer. 19 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. I 20 will open now to the Board for discussion. 21 Yes, Mr. Wrobel? 22 VICE-CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Thank you, 23 Mr. Chair. As far as the challenge of the 24 Ordinance, we have to be consistent. And we
13 1 have been consistent using the Ordinance 2 28-1 in using our sign measurements. At 3 this time I do not feel any reason to go 4 against that. But on the other hand, I have 5 no objection of placing this sign. So I 6 would support it, but I will not support the 7 changing of the Ordinance in the way to 8 configure the sign. I don't want to get 9 into that. We need to be consistent with 10 what we do. We will judge each case on its 11 own merit. 12 In this case I would going along with 13 allowing the oversized sign. 14 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Mr. Bauer? 15 MEMBER BAUER: Is this the only sign 16 they have? 17 MR. BOULARD: That development was 18 constructed and is under agreement that it's 19 considered an enclosed mall. So the 20 internal, the signs that face the center of 21 that are not considered to be exterior signs 22 and do not fall under the purview of the 23 Sign Ordinance. So, I believe there is 24 already a sign up on the west face of the
14 1 building, it's facing the internal space. 2 That sign essentially doesn't count in terms 3 of the Sign Ordinance because it's 4 considered to be within the mall. So, this 5 is the sign on the east and is the only 6 exterior sign. 7 MEMBER BAUER: Thank you. 8 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: While you make 9 up your mind, I just want to put my opinion 10 on the record. I think this raises two 11 issues. Number one, is the method of 12 measuring the size of the sign. And as far 13 as I am concerned our method of measuring 14 signs is not negotiable. That's how we do 15 it and that's how we will continue to do it. 16 The second issue is the actual, the 17 variance of the sign which Mr. Wrobel 18 already referred to. So, we are considering 19 this a variance for that sign. Am I right 20 in thinking what I am doing? Let me just 21 make sure from the Counsel's point of view. 22 MS. KUDLA: What you are looking at is 23 alternative request here that either an 24 interpretation that that provision has been
15 1 interpreted incorrectly by the Community 2 Development Department, or to grant him a 3 variance for an excess size. So that's the 4 request. So you are considering either or. 5 And what you are saying is that you 6 don't want to consider the interpretation. 7 You want to deny the interpretation and 8 consider the variance. 9 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. 10 MEMBER CASSIS: Mr. Chairman? 11 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Yes, Mr. Cassis. 12 MEMBER CASSIS: I am looking at that 13 character that has hands like that. And 14 that character has very long legs. Is there 15 a way to make him a midget like me, 5'6"? 16 MR. LAVANWAY: Well, I certainly 17 wouldn't consider you a midget by any 18 standards at all. 19 MEMBER CASSIS: No, what I am saying 20 is -- well, I don't know how it translates 21 to feet, but on my scale here if you have 22 just one inch or one and a half inch of less 23 legs might eliminate a lot of your square 24 footage there. Have you ever considered
16 1 that? 2 MR. LAVANWAY: Yes, sir. But what is 3 really out of proportion in this drawing 4 turns out to the be the arms. The man is a 5 well proportioned -- I did not do this 6 design work. This was done by an 7 architectural firm out of Ann Arbor, 8 Michigan. And it is the arms that are out 9 of proportion. 10 The man is a fairly well 11 represented figure from the head to the toe. 12 It's only the arms that are really extremely 13 exaggerated in length. And the idea was not 14 quite like Charles Atlas, but the man is 15 almost holding up that globe. And the fact 16 of the matter is, if even with the section 17 as it is and the interpretation as it is, if 18 even the total legs were chopped off and 19 there were no legs at all, that sign -- 20 MEMBER CASSIS: Even with amputations? 21 MR. LAVANWAY: Yeah, that sign still 22 would be 60.5 foot tall and 15 foot wide 23 which would be 75 square feet which would 24 still be 10 square foot over the computation
17 1 of that whole rectangle. So no matter what, 2 it's just over. Even if you cut him off at 3 his waist. Well, if he didn't have legs it 4 would still be over. 5 MEMBER CASSIS: I see. That's all. 6 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. 7 Anybody else? Yes, Ms. Krieger? 8 MEMBER KRIEGER: I also would agree to 9 giving the variance but not changing the 10 code. 11 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. Yes, 12 Mr. Bauer? 13 MEMBER BAUER: We can't change the 14 code. 15 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: No. 16 MEMBER BAUER: The City Council can do 17 that, you would have to take it up with the 18 City Council. 19 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Okay. So, I'm 20 looking for some kind of a motion. Anybody 21 would like to make a motion? 22 VICE-CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: I will try 23 with legal's help. Some day I'll get it 24 down. In the matter of case number:
18 1 09-003, 44125 Twelve Mile Road E-124 Fusion 2 Health & Fitness Clubs to allow a variance 3 to allow installation of a sign no larger 4 than 114.7 square feet of wall signage 5 because it is not incompatible or interfere 6 with adjacent or surrounding property, will 7 result in substantial justice being done to 8 the Applicant and adjacent surrounding 9 properties and is not inconsistent with the 10 spirit of the Ordinance. 11 MEMBER CASSIS: Second. 12 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Okay, the motion 13 has been made. 14 MEMBER GHANNAM: I would just like to 15 make one amendment if I could. 16 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Let's get it 17 seconded first and then we can -- 18 MEMBER CASSIS: I did. 19 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Oh, okay -- 20 MEMBER GHANNAM: The only comment I 21 have is if we could limit it to the design 22 that they proposed. And the reason I would 23 be supportive of it as proposed is because 24 there is not writing in all these yellow
19 1 spots that you have blocked out. If there 2 were writing there to me it would be very 3 obtruding. It wouldn't be -- let's put it 4 this way, nice enough as you have designed 5 it. So as long as it's as proposed in the 6 sign that he has identified I have no 7 problem with it also. 8 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Do you 9 understand the comment? 10 MR. LAVANWAY: Yes, I certainly do. 11 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: It won't change 12 the copy that has been presented today. 13 Good, okay. So, a motion has been made and 14 seconded and amended. 15 Is there any further discussion? 16 (No response.) 17 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: I don't see any. 18 Would you please call the roll. 19 MR. BOULARD: The amended is accepted? 20 VICE-CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Yes. 21 MEMBER CASSIS: The amendment has been 22 accepted. 23 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: The amendment 24 has been accepted and seconded.
20 1 MR. BOULARD: Okay. Member Bauer? 2 MEMBER BAUER: No. 3 MR. BOULARD: Member Cassis? 4 MEMBER CASSIS: Yes. 5 MR. BOULARD: Member Ghannam? 6 MEMBER GHANNAM: Yes. 7 MR. BOULARD: Member Ibe? 8 MEMBER IBE: Yes. 9 MR. BOULARD: Member Krieger? 10 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes. 11 MR. BOULARD: Chairman Sanghvi? 12 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Yes. 13 MR. BOULARD: Member Wrobel? 14 VICE-CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Yes. 15 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Motion is 16 approved 6-1. 17 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Your variance 18 has been granted. 19 MR. LAVANWAY: Thank you very much. 20 21 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Moving on 22 to the next case which is case number 09-004 23 for 24270 Novi Road, Benito's Pizza - 24 Vantage Pointe.
21 1 Applicant is here. Okay, while you 2 come to the podium, the Sign Fabricators is 3 requesting a variance to allow installation 4 of one additional 39 square foot wall sign 5 for the Benito's Pizza suite located at 6 24270 Novi Road. 7 The property is zone B-3 and is 8 located east of Novi Road and north of Ten 9 Mile Road. 10 Are you an attorney? 11 MR. MANSOUR (ph): No, sir. 12 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Would you please 13 identify yourself. Give your name and 14 address and be sworn in by our Secretary, 15 Mr. Bauer, please. 16 MR. MANSOUR: My name is Cal Mansour 17 and my address is 24270 Ten Mile Road. 18 MEMBER BAUER: Would you raise your 19 right head, please. Do you swear or affirm 20 to tell the truth regarding case: 09-004? 21 MR. MANSOUR: Yes, sir. 22 MEMBER BAUER: Thank you. 23 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Please go ahead 24 and make your presentation.
22 1 MR. MANSOUER: I want to apologize for 2 the mock-up sign that's up there. It's a 3 little deceiving. It was made out of vinyl 4 and it's a lot larger than what we are 5 proposing. I would start off by saying 6 that. 7 There is a hardship here with this 8 client. He has got one visibility. Actually 9 he has got a couple visibilities, but there 10 is a lot of distractions with the canopy of 11 the Speedway that's on the corner there. To 12 get a clear view of this you have to be 13 traveling basically on Novi Road heading 14 north and you'll get a clear view of it if 15 you are on Ten Mile heading east on the 16 corner there when you are at the light. 17 I have noticed quite a few other 18 establishments that have two signs in the 19 area. Notably the one that's just adjacent 20 to the same parking lot which is Huntington 21 Bank has a sign facing Novi from the parking 22 lot which is their main entrance and one on 23 Ten Mile Road. Thank you. 24 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. Is
23 1 there anybody in the audience who would like 2 to make a comment about this case? Come up 3 here, please. Come to the podium. Identify 4 yourself, sir. 5 MR. WOLFORD: My name is Peter Wolford 6 and I own the Novi Pizza Company which is 7 located across the street from Benito's. I 8 did send in a response -- 9 MEMBER BAUER: Would you raise your 10 right hand? 11 MR. WOLFORD: Okay, I'm sorry. 12 MEMBER BAUER: Do you swear or affirm 13 to tell the truth regarding this case? 14 MR. WOLFORD: Yes, I do. I did send 15 in a response to your questionnaire there. 16 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: We will get to 17 that. 18 MR. WOLFORD: Okay, I didn't know if I 19 should speak now or wait until the comments, 20 in case there was any questions one may 21 have. I did include with the questionnaire 22 that was mailed out by the City, some 23 photographs. I don't know if they are with 24 that, but I have an additional copy here
24 1 which clearly show the visibility of 2 Benito's sign which is from Ten Mile on Novi 3 Road. You can see it very, very easily. 4 The sign that's illustrated on the mock-up 5 there is almost exactly the same size as the 6 sign that's up there now, the plastic one. 7 I think if it goes forward where we're 8 allowed to have two signs on a building to 9 face two streets, I mean Benito's does not 10 face onto Ten Mile Road. It faces onto Novi 11 Road. Their sign faces onto Ten Mile Road. 12 If there is a problem I think they should be 13 given the go ahead or the authority to move 14 the sign from facing one direction to put it 15 onto the other side. I am sure everybody 16 (inaudible). Everybody knows what's in 17 there. 18 And if you want to talk about 19 visibility, everybody in there has very 20 little visibility. If you are driving south 21 on Novi Road you can see none of the ten 22 stores that face north. So, therefore, if 23 you grant Benito's that, then the ten stores 24 that face that way they should get the same
25 1 thing. 2 And if you look at B-3 it says it's 3 one sign. It doesn't say one in each 4 direction. I would like to point that out. 5 And also, there are numerous 6 other places. If you go down to Meadowbrook 7 and Ten Mile you have got Ah Wok. He has a 8 sign. He is on the corner. Are we going to 9 grant him the same thing? If you look at 10 Bushes Market, Bushes Market they are there. 11 They have nothing on that side. They face 12 into their parking lot. You have the same 13 thing with Honey Tree, they don't have a 14 sign onto Meadowbrook, they have a sign that 15 faces in towards the parking lot. 16 I just think if this is granted for 17 one business that's just started up. They 18 took the building, they rented the building. 19 Nothing has changed. Nobody has built 20 anything. We are getting a bank built by 21 us. You know, nothing has changed that's 22 impeding anybody from seeing the sign. And 23 if you look at the pictures I showed you you 24 can see the sign perfectly well from Ten
26 1 Mile Road going eastbound and westbound and 2 up and down Novi Road. I have five pictures 3 in there and you can see them all. 4 And that's my comments. Thank you. 5 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. 6 You want to read anything? 7 MEMBER BAUER: There were seven 8 notices sent. Three responses to no, do not 9 give it. 10 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: All three are 11 no. I see. Okay. 12 Building Department? Mr. Boulard, do 13 you have any comments? 14 MR. BOULARD: Yes. The photographs 15 that the speaker referred to I believe are 16 in the Secretary's file if the members are 17 interested in seeing those. We can make 18 copies of all those. But they are all 19 available. 20 In this particular case the suite 21 does have a sign to the south facing the 22 parking lot of the Vantage Pointe commercial 23 development and the Zoning Ordinance or Sign 24 Ordinance -- excuse me, limits that location
27 1 to one, to a single sign. Petitioner is 2 requesting to permission to install an 3 additional 39 square foot sign on that west 4 elevation and the staff would not support 5 that. 6 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. Now, 7 I will open it up to the Board. Yes, Mr. 8 Cassis? 9 MEMBER CASSIS: I would have a hard 10 time agreeing to this second sign. As the 11 gentleman that came up and spoke, I believe, 12 from the Pizza Company, that if we grant 13 this gentleman or this business two signs, 14 then we have to grant all others in the city 15 the same thing, so, I don't see any 16 compelling reason or hardship to go against 17 that Ordinance for this person to have two 18 signs. How about the others that are also, 19 the two or three other shops that are out of 20 the same complex? They might come out and 21 say we want the sign there too. So really, 22 I will not approve that. Thank you. 23 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Yes, Mr. Wrobel? 24 VICE-CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Thank, Mr.
28 1 Chair. Mr. Boulard, I think it was here 2 prior, within the past year or so that we 3 addressed the monument sign for this strip 4 mall. Is that put to bed, final no and 5 everything? Or has it been brought up again 6 or something? Being back on here I don't 7 know what has transpired when I was gone. 8 MR. BOULARD: The Board heard a 9 request, the Board has heard a number of 10 requests for variances and I believe the 11 second sign for Hungtington Bank was 12 granted. They were granted a variance 13 within the center. The Board also I believe 14 heard a request for a monument sign. At one 15 point they wanted to rename the center I 16 think Huntington Center. I'm not sure if 17 that made it all the way here as a request. 18 There was also a request for a 19 monument sign with the individual names of 20 the businesses and the Board denied that. 21 So, to the best of my knowledge there are no 22 outstanding cases regarding signage for this 23 property with the exception of what's before 24 you.
29 1 VICE-CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Okay, thank 2 you. I agree with everything Member Cassis 3 says. You give one person a sign in that 4 plaza, the other tenants are going to 5 request it. 6 Personally I have been to this 7 location several times. I have no trouble 8 finding it. I don't think that there is 9 really a true hardship here in this case and 10 I would not support the additional sign at 11 this time. 12 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. 13 Anybody else? 14 MR. MANSOUR: Can I add one thing? 15 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: No, not yet now. 16 MR. MANSOUR: Excuse me. 17 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Yes, Mr. 18 Ghannam? 19 MEMBER GHANNAM: Thank you, Mr. Chair. 20 I am actually in agreement with the other 21 two members who spoke as well as our 22 audience member who has spoken. I do 23 remember the Huntington Bank matter. I 24 remember that was denied. And personally I
30 1 think this sign that is in existence that I 2 traveled two or three times a week and see 3 it, there is no problem. 4 The rule is one sign. You are 5 requesting an exception to the rule which 6 you have to meet your burden, and I don't 7 think you have met it in this case, so I 8 would be against it. 9 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Okay. Anybody 10 else? It looks like we are coming to an end 11 of the discussion. Maybe somebody might 12 make a motion now. Yes, sir, go ahead. 13 MEMBER IBE: May I make a motion? 14 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Sure. 15 MEMBER IBE: In case number: 09-004, 16 24270 Novi Road, Benito's Pizza, Vantage 17 Pointe, having heard the conversations and 18 given the Applicant an opportunity to 19 present his case and having heard from the 20 opposition, I move that we deny the request 21 in this case because the Applicant has not 22 demonstrated the necessary hardship. And 23 failure to grant relief will not 24 unreasonably prevent or limit use of the
31 1 property. And would not result in any 2 substantial more than mere inconvenience or 3 inability to attain a higher economic or 4 financial return. 5 The denial will not result in use of 6 structure that is compatible and will not -- 7 and will interfere with the -- will 8 interfere with the adjacent or surrounding 9 properties. Currently I move that the 10 motion to deny be granted. 11 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. 12 VICE-CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Second. 13 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: The motion has 14 been made and seconded. Any further 15 discussion? Yes? 16 MS. KUDLA: Just to add some specifics 17 to the motion. Maybe that the property is 18 not unique because the lack of visibility 19 from one side is shared by the other 20 properties in the same development and 21 across the street. 22 MEMBER IBE: I agree. 23 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: The comments are 24 accepted.
32 1 VICE-CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Second. 2 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Seconder has 3 accepted the comments, so the motion has 4 been amended. Anything 5 else? Anybody else? 6 (No response.) 7 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Okay, will you 8 please call the roll. 9 MR. BOULARD: Member Wrobel? 10 VICE-CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Yes. 11 MR. BOULARD: Chairman Sanghvi? 12 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Yes. 13 MR. BOULARD: Member Krieger? 14 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes. 15 MR. BOULARD: Member Ibe? 16 MEMBER IBE: Yes. 17 MR. BOULARD: Member Ghannam? 18 MEMBER GHANNAM: Yes. 19 MR. BOULARD: Member Cassis? 20 MEMBER CASSIS: Yes. 21 MR. BOULARD: Member Bauer? 22 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 23 MR. BOULARD: Motion to deny is 24 approved 7-0.
33 1 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. 2 3 Moving on. The next case is case 4 number: 09-005, 43700 Expo Center Drive. 5 Mr. Scott Elliot of CB Richard Ellis 6 representing Novi Expo Center is requesting 7 to renew the ZBA 07-100 variance to allow 8 one 96 square foot oversize real estate 9 leasing wall sign to be located on the 10 building at 43700 Expo Center Drive for the 11 Novi Expo Center. 12 The Property is zoned EXPO and is 13 located south of I-96 and west of Novi Road. 14 Will you please identify yourself. 15 MR. ELLIOT: Scott Elliot with CB 16 Richard Ellis. 17 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Are you an 18 attorney? 19 MR. ELLIOT: No, I'm not. 20 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Okay, will you 21 please be sworn in. 22 MEMBER BAUER: Raise your right hand. 23 Do you solemnly swear or affirm to tell the 24 truth in your case?
34 1 MR. ELLIOT: Yes, I do. 2 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Please go ahead 3 and make your presentation. 4 MR. ELLIOT: As you may recall I was 5 here a year ago and this is to grant the 6 sign variance to place an 8 by 12 foot sign 7 on the former Novi Expo Center so that it is 8 visible from I-96. By fact that we have not 9 sold or leased the building over the last 10 year, I am back to see if we can extend the 11 sign variance for one more year so that we 12 could be allowed to keep our marketing sign 13 on the building. 14 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. 15 Is there anybody in the audience that would 16 like to make a comment about this case? 17 (No response.) 18 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Seeing none, 19 Building Department? 20 MR. BOULARD: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I 21 would like to make one correction to the 22 staff report. The staff report refers in 23 parenthesis to the 96 square feet as being 8 24 feet by 12 inches. That's actually 8 feet
35 1 by 12 feet. As the Petitioner stated, this 2 sign was granted a variance under ZBA case 3 07-100. That has expired and the Petitioner 4 is here for renewal and approval of the 5 sign. Thank you. 6 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. 7 Well, I'll open it up to the Board. All 8 right, Mr. Wrobel, go ahead. 9 VICE-CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: I have no 10 issue of renewing this if we do it for a 11 period of one year. I would feel uneasy 12 doing it for a longer period of time. I 13 understand it's necessary to get this piece 14 of property re-leased. And I am hoping you 15 saw our master plan we throw in there. We 16 had some good ideas. Hopefully if you can 17 get somebody it would be a perfect place for 18 a corporate headquarters. 19 MR. ELLIOT: We always try. 20 VICE-CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: So, at this 21 time I have no issue with supporting this 22 for a one year period. 23 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you, Mr. 24 Wrobel.
36 1 Yes, Mr. Ghannam? 2 MEMBER GHANNAM: Thank you, Mr. Chair. 3 I don't have any problem with either 4 especially if it's limited to one year. I 5 think just because it's such a massive 6 building if you put a small 16 square foot 7 sign you probably couldn't see it from the 8 distances that we typically drive, so a 9 larger sign is currently there. I would have 10 no problem with it either. 11 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Anybody else? 12 (No response.) 13 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Seeing none, 14 would anybody like to make a motion? Yes, 15 Mr. Ghannam? 16 MEMBER GHANNAM: Yes, I will go ahead 17 and make a motion in this case, 09 -- 18 MS. KUDLA: Before we move on to a 19 motion we just want to double check and make 20 sure. Was there any correspondence? 21 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: I beg your 22 pardon -- 23 MEMBER BAUER: There were 40 notices 24 mailed. Three returned. No responses.
37 1 MS. KUDLA: Okay. Thank you. 2 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: I didn't see it. 3 I beg your pardon. Go ahead. 4 MEMBER GHANNAM: Thank you, Mr. Chair. 5 I will make the motion in case number: 6 09-005 for 43700 Expo Center Drive to 7 approve the request for a variance as 8 submitted to keep the existing sign there 9 for a period of one year from the date the 10 variance was issued because the nature of 11 the property is exceptional. It's a very 12 large center as I expressed before and a 13 smaller sign could not serve the property 14 well. And I think those features are 15 exceptional and unique to the property that 16 require the sign that's requested. 17 I think that the failure to grant 18 relief will unreasonably prevent or limit 19 the use of the property for the marketing of 20 the property and will result in 21 substantially more than a mere inconvenience 22 or inability to attain a higher economic or 23 financial return. And that the grant of 24 relief will not result in a use of a
38 1 structure that is incompatible with or 2 unreasonably interferes with adjacent or 3 surrounding properties. And it will result 4 in a substantial injustice being done to 5 both the Applicant and the adjacent or 6 surrounding properties. And it is 7 consistent with the spirit of the Ordinance. 8 VICE-CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Second. 9 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. The 10 motion has been made and seconded. Any 11 further comments? 12 (No response.) 13 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Seeing 14 none, will you please call the roll, Mr. 15 Boulard. 16 MR. BOULARD: Member Ibe? 17 MEMBER IBE: Yes. 18 MR. BOULARD: Member Wrobel? 19 VICE-CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Yes. 20 MR. BOULARD: Member Krieger? 21 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes. 22 MR. BOULARD: Member Bauer? 23 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 24 MR. BOULARD: Chairman Sanghvi?
39 1 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Yes. 2 MR. BOULARD: Member Cassis? 3 MEMBER CASSIS: Yes. 4 MR. BOULARD: Member Ghannam? 5 MEMBER GHANNAM: Yes. 6 MR. BOULARD: Motion is approved 7-0. 7 MR. ELLIOT: Thank you. 8 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. 9 Congratulations. 10 11 Moving on to the next case. 12 Case number: 09-006, 26800 Meadowbrook 13 Road, Meadowbrook Corporate Park. Colliers 14 International is requesting a renewal of one 15 sign variance for a 60 square foot real 16 estate leasing sign located at 26800 17 Meadowbrook Road. 18 The property is zoned OST and located 19 south of Twelve Mile and east of Meadowbrook 20 Road. 21 Would you please identify yourself and 22 give your address and be sworn in by our 23 Secretary unless you are an attorney. 24 MR. YAMADA: I am not an attorney.
40 1 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Go ahead. 2 MR. YAMADA: I am Mike Yamada of 3 Colliers International. 4 MEMBER BAUER: Would you raise your 5 right hand. Do you swear to tell the truth 6 regarding case: 09-006? 7 MR. YAMADA: Yes, I do. 8 MEMBER BAUER: Thank you. 9 MR. YAMADA: I am here to request 10 another extension for the real estate sign 11 for property of Meadowbrook Corporate Park. 12 I was here last year too and we have not 13 been able to lease up the current two 14 buildings 100 percent right now. It's about 15 90 percent leased, but we still have three 16 lots to build, three buildings in the back 17 of the property. So we do need this sign to 18 continue to stay on the site for at least 19 another year. 20 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. Is 21 there anybody in the audience who would like 22 to address the Board regarding this case? 23 (No response.) 24 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Seeing none, Mr.
41 1 Secretary, is there any correspondence 2 regarding this case? 3 MEMBER BAUER: There were 26 notices 4 mailed. Seven returned. No responses. 5 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. 6 Building Department? 7 MR. BOULARD: Thank you. This 8 variance is not dissimilar to the one you 9 just heard. However, in this case the 10 variance is for a 60 square feet real estate 11 leasing sign as opposed to the 16 square 12 feet allowed in the Ordinance. This sign 13 was approved previously by this body in 14 September of '06 and December of '07. And 15 needless to say for one year in '07 that 16 time has expired. 17 So, if this are any questions I would 18 be happy to provide whatever answers I can. 19 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you, Mr. 20 Boulard. 21 I'll open it up to the Board. Yes, 22 Mr. Bauer? 23 MEMBER BAUER: Have they kept up the 24 sign? Have you had any problems?
42 1 MR. BOULARD: I am not aware of any 2 maintenance concerns with the sign. 3 MR. YAMADA: I have got a picture here 4 to submit. 5 MEMBER BAUER: You can put it in the 6 overhead there if you want. 7 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Yeah, put it on 8 there so the people at home can see it. 9 MEMBER BAUER: Just turn it. 10 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Okay. Thank 11 you. 12 Anybody else, any comments? Yes, 13 Ms. Krieger? 14 MEMBER KRIEGER: I don't have an 15 objection for them to have the sign for 16 another year. 17 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Okay, very good. 18 Would you like to make a motion? 19 MEMBER KRIEGER: Okay. 20 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Go ahead. 21 MEMBER KRIEGER: In case number: 22 09-006, 26800 Meadowbrook Road, Meadowbrook 23 Corporate Park, a motion for Colliers 24 International is a requesting renewal of one
43 1 sign variance for a 60 square feet real 2 estate leasing sign located at that address. 3 And the property is zoned OST and located 4 south of Twelve Mile and east of Meadowbrook 5 Road. I move to approve the sign for one 6 year. That the Applicant has shown a 7 practical difficulty in his three lots and 8 his two buildings and he is at 90 percent 9 and would need the sign to continue to do 10 so. And that granting this request would 11 help the Applicant and it's not self 12 created. 13 And failure to grant relief would 14 unreasonably prevent or limit the use of the 15 property and would result in substantially 16 more than mere inconvenience or inability to 17 attain a higher economic or financial 18 return. And it would be in the spirit of 19 the Ordinance. 20 MEMBER BAUER: Second. 21 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: The motion has 22 been made and seconded. Any further 23 comments? Yes, Mr. Cassis? 24 MEMBER CASSIS: Yeah, I would be
44 1 voting for an extension. The file has 2 become quite large on this sign. This sign 3 is on Meadowbrook Road, right? 4 MR. YAMADA: That's correct. 5 MEMBER CASSIS: Meadowbrook Road is 6 just a two lane highway. 7 MR. YAMADA: Two lane, right. 8 MEMBER CASSIS: It's not like Twelve 9 Mile Road and what have you. That's a huge 10 sign. I don't know why that huge sign is 11 needed. You have already constructed it, 12 okay. And I am new to this ZBA here, but 13 when they approved this I don't think it 14 should have been given. A smaller sign 15 would have been just as adequate for that 16 particular area. And that's all I want to 17 say, but I will be voting for that 18 extension. 19 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you, Mr. 20 Cassis for chastising us. Thank you. 21 Anybody else? 22 (No response.) 23 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Okay, will you 24 please call the roll, Mr. Boulard.
45 1 MR. BOULARD: Member Wrobel? 2 VICE-CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Yes. 3 MR. BOULARD: Chairman Sanghvi? 4 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Yes. 5 MR. BOULARD: Member Krieger? 6 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes. 7 MR. BOULARD: Member Ibe? 8 MEMBER IBE: Yes. 9 MR. BOULARD: Member Ghannam? 10 MEMBER GHANNAM: Yes. 11 MR. BOULARD: Member Cassis? 12 MEMBER CASSIS: Yes. 13 MR. BOULARD: Member Bauer? 14 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 15 MR. BOULARD: Motion is approved 7-0. 16 MEMBER CASSIS: And it is a friendly 17 chastisement. 18 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. 19 Thank you very much, indeed. 20 21 All right. Moving on, the next 22 one is case number: 09-007, 27475 Huron 23 Circle, Waltonwood. G. Michael Kahm of Singh 24 Development, LLC representing Waltonwood at
46 1 Twelve Oaks is requesting the renewal of a 2 variance to allow continued placement of a 3 41 square foot temporary leasing sign 11 4 feet in height located at 27475 Huron 5 Circle, Waltonwood. 6 The property is zoned RM-1 and is 7 located south of Twelve Mile Road and east 8 of Novi Road. 9 Would you please identify 10 yourself, Mr. Kahm, and state your name and 11 address and be sworn in by our Secretary. 12 MR. KAHM: Michael Kahm, Singh 13 Development Company, 7125 Orchard Lake Road, 14 West Bloomfield. 15 MEMBER BAUER: Do you swear or affirm 16 to tell the truth regarding case: 09-007? 17 MR. KAHM: I do. 18 MEMBER BAUER: Thank you, sir. 19 MR. KAHM: Good evening. Some of you 20 may get sick of seeing me. Some of you may 21 remember, I was here this past summer in 22 July at which time this Board agreed to 23 grant us a six-month extension for the sign 24 we have on the ring road -- pardon me, the
47 1 finger road that runs from mall road out to 2 Twelve Mile Road and that's the photographs 3 you have in your packet. 4 At the same time you denied the 5 extension, the sign that we used to have on 6 the ring road and that one has just now been 7 removed. You also were gracious enough to 8 grant us recently a sign on Twelve Mile Road 9 which provides directional traffic from 10 Twelve Mile down to our property which 11 affronts essentially on the ring road and 12 the mall. Unfortunately since the last time 13 I was here in July, the economy has gotten 14 even worse if that is fathomable. So, we 15 are kind of suffering even though seniors 16 you may think are insulated from this 17 problem, they are really not. 18 A lot of the residents that come to 19 our independent living section are coming 20 from existing homes and they are having a 21 difficult time selling their homes in this 22 environment. At the same time those who are 23 living in assisted living facility are 24 oftentimes assisted by their families who
48 1 are now having a very difficult time. And, 2 so, those decisions are being put off. The 3 net result of this is that our occupancy as 4 unfortunately suffered. 5 And the signage that we have here 6 is a great benefit for people coming from 7 Twelve Mile to identify our property 8 location. And particularly for those people 9 coming from the mall ring road that will use 10 that finger road, that's really the only 11 identification that we have for people to 12 realize that it's a senior housing 13 development. That signage at this critical 14 point in us trying to get to a sustained 15 level of occupancy is really essential. 16 So, I'm here again tonight to ask for 17 your indulgence to grant us an additional 18 extension to allow that sign to remain. I 19 ask for two years, but I am at your mercy. 20 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. Is 21 there anybody in the audience who would like 22 to make a presentation regarding case? 23 (No response.) 24 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Seeing none, Mr.
49 1 Bauer, do you have any correspondence 2 regarding this case? 3 MEMBER BAUER: Forty-three notices 4 were mailed. Two return. No responses. 5 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Okay. Mr. 6 Boulard, go ahead, it's your turn. 7 MR. BOULARD: Thank you. One thing 8 this situation appeared when we were going 9 through preparing the packets and there 10 seems to be some confusion and I'm not sure 11 where it occurred. But, in the summer when 12 the Board denied the variance for one sign 13 and allowed six months for the other sign, 14 there seems to be some confusion as to what 15 was a ring road, if it was a ring road 16 around the mall or around the development, 17 and what was a finger road, whether Mackinac 18 Boulevard was a finger road or whatnot. 19 So, if we can start fresh. The sign 20 in the picture is the sign that's at the 21 location on the map that you have in front 22 of you and I apologize for any confusion 23 that led up to that. So, other than that, I 24 believe you have everything from the
50 1 previous variances in your packet. And if 2 you have any questions I would be happy to 3 answer them. 4 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Very good. 5 Thank you. 6 I am opening it up to the Board 7 now for discussion. Before you start, under 8 normal circumstances I would have asked you, 9 Mr. Kahm, what is the meaning of the word 10 temporary? Seeing here as we have been 11 giving you (inaudible). But unfortunately 12 the circumstances are beyond our control at 13 the moment and the way the economy is, so I 14 would refrain from asking you that question. 15 Yes, Mr. Ghannam? 16 MEMBER GHANNAM: That was one of my 17 concerns, when really these variances are 18 exceptions to the rule. And the question is 19 when does the exception swallow the rule? 20 What is your anticipation of how long you 21 think you will actually need this? I mean, 22 what are you trying to accomplish working on 23 right now in terms of occupancy? 24 MR. KAHM: Well, as I have mentioned
51 1 in my letter, our assisted living facility 2 is in the 60 percent range and independent 3 in the 70s. Our problem is that we kind of 4 gain some, we lose some. And we are just 5 kind of playing that roller coaster ride 6 right now, and the economy unfortunately is 7 a large contributor to that fact. So, I 8 wish I knew. We would be more than happy to 9 have this thing to reach a sustained level. 10 We would be happier than you are. 11 I would like to say a year, but I wish 12 I knew what the coming year is going to hold 13 for us. Frankly, I don't see 2009 being all 14 that great. I mean that's just the way it 15 looks. 2010 you hope it gets better. 16 MEMBER GHANNAM: You said your 17 occupancy is at 60 percent? That's a yes? 18 MR. KAHM: Right. 19 MEMBER GHANNAM: Okay, and I guess the 20 question becomes at what percent occupancy 21 would you believe you will no longer need 22 this type of sign? 23 MR. KAHM: Normally a sustained 24 occupancy level where we're in pretty good
52 1 shape is in the low 90s. That's pretty much 2 an industry standard. And other 3 developments we have, traditionally other 4 developments we have had of that sort, our 5 sustained level is reached. Unfortunately, 6 we are victims of the marketplace and it is 7 what it is. 8 MEMBER GHANNAM: Again, I understand 9 the circumstances of the times. I know you 10 have been granted the variances before. I 11 guess I would tend to support it. I would 12 not support two years. And I think six 13 months under the circumstances is probably 14 too short, so I would prefer something in 15 the middle such as about a year. But I 16 think at some point, you know, like you 17 said, the temporary Ordinance has to stop 18 and at some point there will be that. So I 19 would tend to support about a year. 20 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. 21 Yes, Mr. Wrobel? 22 VICE-CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Refresh my 23 memory. These rentals are rental units not 24 condo type units?
53 1 MR. KAHM: Yes. 2 VICE-CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: To me this 3 is going to be an ongoing situation. You 4 are always going to have turnover whether 5 you're at 80 percent, 90 percent there is 6 always going to be turnover. Unfortunately 7 more people die. 8 MR. KAHM: Right. 9 VICE-CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: And other 10 people will be coming in. It almost, this 11 has been going on for so long it's kind of 12 hard to say as my colleague said it's a 13 temporary sign. To me it's going to be a 14 permanent sign because you are always going 15 to be looking for people to come in there. 16 Have you given any thought, and we may 17 have talked about this before. You have got 18 your one sign out there, incorporating some 19 of this into your monument sign that's out 20 in the entrance and eliminating this sign. 21 I would like to see you look at something 22 like that. And I could go along with 23 another year with this sign, but after that. 24 I mean, my word, it's been a lot of
54 1 extensions. It's going to keep going on and 2 on. 3 MR. KAHM: Traditionally if we reached 4 that sustained level that I spoke of, then 5 typically whatever attrition we may suffer, 6 the market makes up for it. So then we stay 7 at that sustained level. 8 Unfortunately we can't get up to that 9 because of the reasons I mentioned earlier. 10 So, we hope that once we get to that point 11 the market will, and traditionally that's 12 what happened, it will take care of that 13 problem. We are just suffering a timing 14 situation at this point. 15 VICE-CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: I guess you 16 got to look from our perspective with all 17 these extensions have been going on forever 18 -- 19 MR. KAHM: No, sure. Believe me I 20 understand. 21 VICE-CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: And I am 22 looking at an alternative what you could 23 have to eliminate let's say down the road. 24 I would agree with a one year extension this
55 1 time. But if the environment and the 2 economy doesn't pick up and you don't hit 3 those levels, maybe it's time to try 4 something else, you know. 5 MR. KAHM: We would be happy to look 6 at alternatives. 7 VICE-CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: So, I would 8 like you to consider that. But for a one 9 year extension I could support it at this 10 time. 11 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Yes, Mr. Ibe? 12 MEMBER IBE: Good evening, sir. 13 MR. KAHM: Good evening. 14 MEMBER IBE: It's probably fair to say 15 realistically you will not attain your 90 16 percent, would that be a fair assessment? 17 MR. KAHM: At this point? 18 MEMBER IBE: At this point. 19 MR. KAHM: Under normal circumstances 20 we would be much closer. We would be much 21 closer. If things had traditionally turned 22 out we would have been much closer than 23 this, much, much closer. 24 MEMBER IBE: Considering the economic
56 1 climate that we have right now, it is 2 unrealistic. And let's not kid ourselves. 3 I don't believe that you will attain your 4 goal in the next two years considering the 5 economic climate. I mean, there is no 6 kidding around about that. I am sure you 7 will be back here again next year asking for 8 the same thing again. 9 I have no problem giving you the one 10 year that you are asking for. However, this 11 is not a temporary sign. This is a 12 permanent sign the way I see it. So, one of 13 my colleagues made a suggestion that you can 14 incorporate part of what you have in your 15 monument sign so you can have a permanent 16 sign. I saw you here last year. You were 17 here last year. We had the same 18 conversation. 19 MR. KAHM: Yes. 20 MEMBER IBE: So it's like a broken 21 record. We are going to have it again next 22 year. 23 MR. KAHM: I would prefer not. 24 MEMBER IBE: Well, I'm a realist. We
57 1 all have to be frank about this. I mean, 2 there is no kidding around about, yeah, we 3 need 90 percent. And realistically you and I 4 know it's a number game. You are not going 5 to attain 90 percent considering the 6 economic climate within the next 24 months. 7 We have given you 12 months. And I am 8 sitting here telling you it's going to be 24 9 months, so I know you are going to be back 10 year next. So, tell me, sir, what are you 11 going to do to ensure that you don't come 12 back next year asking for that same thing 13 again? 14 MR. KAHM: Well, if, and correct me if 15 I am wrong, I may not be well versed on your 16 Sign Ordinance, but I don't know whether the 17 Sign Ordinance allows for permanent on a 18 monument sign advertising type language that 19 we have on that sign. If it did, we would 20 be all for it where we can put some sort of 21 information for people to do what it was and 22 how to contact us. If that's allowed, 23 that's a different story. 24 I don't, based on the knowledge I have
58 1 on past signs, I am not sure that is 2 possible. But I like the idea, I just don't 3 know if it's possible. 4 MEMBER IBE: Maybe someone in the City 5 or the City attorney might be able to answer 6 his question. 7 MS. KUDLA: We don't have the answer 8 right now, but we could look into it. 9 MEMBER IBE: Absolutely. I would 10 strongly suggest, sir, that you talk with 11 the City because I just don't like this 12 musical chairs. 13 MR. KAHM: Sure. 14 MEMBER IBE: I mean, you are looking 15 at this here, it begs the question is this 16 temporary or is this permanent? I would 17 support one year, however, if you come back 18 next year, sir, knowing this economic 19 climate I will vote no because you have got 20 to take other steps other than having a big 21 sign out there that we all know is not 22 temporary. 23 MR. KAHM: Fair enough. 24 MEMBER IBE: No further comments.
59 1 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. 2 Yes, Mr. Cassis? 3 MEMBER CASSIS: Yes. Mr. Kahm came up 4 with a very technical and I guess crucial 5 distinction. As I read it, this is a sign 6 advertising with a phone number to try to 7 rent units. It's not like a Benito's or a 8 regular sign to identify a place. I think 9 this outfit, Singh is caught in a dilemma of 10 what is proper and how can they abide by a 11 technicality that this arises here. And at 12 the same time trying to alleviate their own 13 problem which is accentuated by this Tsunami 14 of economy. And there will be an election 15 in 2010. There will be relief coming. 16 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: That's besides 17 the point. 18 MEMBER CASSIS: So, I think, Mr. Kahm, 19 if you can come up like my colleague, Mr. 20 Ibe, he is very articulate on this and I 21 respect what he said, it's just that coming 22 back all the time. Do you have any kind of 23 innovative idea to take care of, along with 24 people in the office upstairs to try to come
60 1 up with some solution that will not, that 2 will circumvent this technicality, if you 3 know what I am asking? 4 MR. KAHM: I do. I like the idea. I 5 welcome an opportunity to work with staff 6 and see if we can come up with a solution. 7 MEMBER CASSIS: Do you think you can 8 help with that situation? I can see how my 9 colleagues, and I haven't been here to take 10 the torture that you have, Mr. Ibe, but 11 maybe I think they need relief from this 12 situation. 13 Do you think you can work with Mr. 14 Kahm and come up with some kind of a 15 solution? 16 MR. BOULARD: I am sure that we can 17 work with Mr. Kahm to find out whatever, to 18 craft whatever solution the Ordinance allows 19 and go from there. And I am sure Jeannie 20 Niland will be more than happy to talk to 21 you. 22 MEMBER CASSIS: Now, let me ask. 23 Singh is a model developer and I have heard 24 that at the Council just last week or a
61 1 couple of weeks ago when you came before 2 them. We all know that you treasure being 3 in this community. 4 MR. KAHM: We do, sir. 5 MEMBER CASSIS: We know that. And 6 that's why I am appealing to this situation 7 that we can come up with that will be good 8 for you and good for the city and a relief 9 from. But in the meantime, I think we'll go 10 along with the one year. I will vote for a 11 one year extension. Thank you, Mr. Chair. 12 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: You are welcome, 13 sir. Thank you. 14 Do I hear a motion? Yes, Ibe? 15 MEMBER IBE: Can I make one? 16 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Sure. 17 MEMBER IBE: In case number: 09-007, 18 27475 Huron Circle, Waltonwood I move that 19 we grant the variance because the Petitioner 20 has shown practical difficulty considering 21 the present economic climate, that we grant 22 the Petitioner a one year extension of the 23 variance. The request is made and 24 circumstances are features that are
62 1 exceptional and unique to the property in 2 question and do not result from conditions 3 that exist generally in the city or that are 4 self created. 5 The failure to grant such relief will 6 unreasonably prevent or limit the use of the 7 property and will result in substantial more 8 than mere inconvenience or inability to 9 attain a higher economic or financial 10 return. And the grant of the relief will 11 not result in use of structure that is 12 incompatible with or unreasonably interferes 13 with adjacent or surrounding properties and 14 will result in substantial injustice being 15 done on both the Applicant and adjacent or 16 surrounding properties and is consistent 17 with the spirit of the Ordinance. 18 VICE-CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Second. 19 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Okay. The motion 20 has been made and seconded. Any further 21 discussion? Yes, Mr. Bauer? 22 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. I wonder if 23 you can add in there for Mr. Kahm to come in 24 and talk to our Building Department about
63 1 trying to get a monument sign there for 2 them? 3 MEMBER IBE: I'll agree to that. 4 VICE-CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: I will agree 5 to that also. 6 MEMBER BAUER: Thank you. 7 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Okay, all right. 8 The motion has been made and seconded 9 and amended, and amendment has been 10 accepted. So, can we call the roll, please. 11 MR. BOULARD: I will do that. Member 12 Bauer? 13 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 14 MR. BOULARD: Member Cassis? 15 MEMBER CASSIS: Yes. 16 MR. BOULARD: Member Ghannam? 17 MEMBER GHANNAM: Yes. 18 MR. BOULARD: Member Ibe? 19 MEMBER IBE: Yes. 20 MR. BOULARD: Member Krieger? 21 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes. 22 MR. BOULARD: Chairman Sanghvi? 23 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Yes. 24 MR. BOULARD: Member Wrobel?
64 1 VICE-CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Yes. 2 MR. BOULARD: Motion is approved 7-0. 3 MR. KAHM: Thank you very much. 4 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you, sir. 5 6 Moving on to case number: 7 09-008, 25750 Novi Road, Basic Asian Market. 8 Theresa Shiek, VP of Bistro of Grace, LLC is 9 requesting a variance to permit the 10 installation of a 36 seat restaurant area in 11 the Basic Asian Market located at 25750 Novi 12 Road, Suite 102 without installing any 13 additional parking spaces as required by the 14 Zoning Ordinance. 15 The property is zoned TC-1 and is 16 located on the east side of Novi Road, south 17 of Main Street and north of CSX railroad 18 tracks. 19 Will you please identify yourself and 20 state your name and address. 21 MS. SHIEK: My name is Theresa Shiek 22 and the business address is 25750 Novi Road. 23 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Are you an 24 attorney?
65 1 MS. SHIEK: No, I'm not. 2 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Okay. Will you 3 please be sworn in by our Secretary. 4 MEMBER BAUER: Do you swear or affirm 5 to tell the truth regarding case: 09-008? 6 MS. SHIEK: I do. 7 MEMBER BAUER: Thank you very much. 8 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Please make your 9 presentation. Thank you. 10 MS. SHIEK: My name is that 11 Theresa Shiek and I am one of the owner of 12 the Basic Asian Market. It's a grocery 13 store and also we have a kitchen in the 14 grocery store. And now we are doing some 15 grocery and the takeout. And the business 16 is very bad and we cannot even survive, it's 17 not even without the rent fee for some 18 period of time, but forget about rent, and 19 also the without parking space we cannot 20 survive. 21 I have this supermarket since July of 22 2007 and I have lost maybe quarter million 23 dollars for now. And I try every effort to 24 get the business in good shape, but most of
66 1 my customers they are moving out of the area 2 because they lost their jobs and they don't 3 call me before they are out of town. They 4 find another job and the family have to move 5 out and they call me up and say they are no 6 longer maybe here, you know. Because this 7 is small community, so most of my customers 8 become friends of mine. 9 In my supermarket sometimes we have a 10 lot of different people come in like a small 11 community area where people shop and 12 generally exchange all the information. I 13 would like this supermarket, and I have done 14 every possible job I can do to keep the 15 business going. And I try to generate more 16 income to just survive. I learn some 17 information from my customers. They told me 18 if I can have some sitting area in the 19 supermarket they can sit down and eat. 20 Because right now the takeout food is very, 21 very small. Because people they like to sit 22 down and eat. Because basically I'm selling 23 is the New Bow soup. New Bow soup is hot. 24 If the noodle get in the soup too long the
67 1 noodles become very soft and it's doesn't 2 taste as great if they take home, so they 3 prefer to -- I am sorry about my accent. 4 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Don't worry 5 about that. 6 MS. SHIEK: Okay. And this is my 7 first time in my lifetime. 8 MEMBER CASSIS: You are making us 9 hungry. 10 MS. SHIEK: So they suggest if I can 11 put some table and sit inside the 12 supermarket. And I have the space for that, 13 I would generate more income. I have gone 14 through the Planning Department, the 15 Building Department a few times and they 16 suggest me to come to the Board to present 17 my case, maybe I can get some mercy from 18 gentleman, ladies and keep my business 19 running. If I cannot, and I don't even know 20 if this will be successful, but at least I 21 have to try. 22 Because what I learn from the Planning 23 Department is they cannot approve my plan 24 because of the parking space is very, is not
68 1 enough according to the code. But the 2 reality is, if you go to my supermarket 3 during the daytime maybe 10 percent of the 4 parking is occupied. The time when I left 5 my supermarket they come to share, maybe 50 6 percent of the parking space is occupied. 7 And my neighbor, my neighbor, they use my 8 parking space for their parking because my 9 parking is all vacant and people use my 10 parking for the car pool because it's no car 11 there. 12 I make my statement in writing. You 13 probably aware of Fifth Avenue Ballroom they 14 are doing the nightclub. Their business 15 start from 9:00, 10:00. By that time our 16 supermarket is closed. We close at 8:00. I 17 just don't see any reason, you know, I 18 cannot put some table and sit for me to 19 generate more income and just survive. And 20 I don't even know how to explain. I think 21 everybody can understand. 22 The only thing I have is the 23 parking. The only thing I don't have is the 24 money and the customer and I try to use my
69 1 space to generate more income and to hire 2 more people and to serve more customers. I 3 just try to strive, make a living. 4 Everybody should understand the financial 5 crisis now really affect everybody. 6 If I cannot get this opportunity to 7 try one more time I have to layoff one 8 worker by the end of this month. If still 9 cannot survive I don't know, maybe I have to 10 close down. All my savings in this place. 11 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Okay, thank you. 12 Is there anybody in the audience who 13 would like to make comment regarding this 14 case? 15 (No response.) 16 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Seeing none, Mr. 17 Bauer, are there any? 18 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. There were 32 19 notices mailed. Three returned. No 20 response. 21 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. Mr. 22 Boulard? 23 MR. BOULARD: Thank you. In your 24 packet there is a report written by Mark
70 1 Spencer regarding the property. There is 2 also a letter from February 4th, from Mr. 3 Spencer and there is just a couple of things 4 that I wanted to point out for the Board's 5 consideration. In the February 4th letter 6 it makes reference to the fact that when 7 this project was approved originally for 8 development, a shared parking study was 9 presented and accepted by the Planning 10 Commission to reduce the required number of 11 parking spaces to 252 when the site plan was 12 originally approved. So, there already has 13 been some reduction. 14 The other thing that I would like to 15 point out is in the 4th paragraph of Mr. 16 Spencer's memo from February 19th, he points 17 out that there is a legal alternative and 18 that would be for a proposed parking study 19 to be done and presented to the Planning 20 Commission for approval. In this particular 21 case there is a legal alternative. I don't 22 know what the outcome of that would be, not 23 being omniscient, but I believe there is I 24 believe an alternative.
71 1 I did have one question for the 2 Petitioner if I may. In addition to 3 landlord you are tenant, correct? 4 MS. SHIEK: Right. Because, you know, 5 we purchase building in 2004 and this place 6 is vacant for over, you know, many years. 7 We can't find any tenant. So we try to use 8 the space to keep the space open. Because 9 once you have the space vacant for a while 10 two tenants complaining because it's dark. 11 The whole building is like very dark. So we 12 keep the place open, not try to make the 13 money, but just to keep the whole building 14 as occupied. 15 MR. BOULARD: Thank you. 16 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you, Mr. 17 Boulard. Open it up to the Board. Yes, Mr. 18 Ibe? And then Mr. Wrobel. 19 VICE-CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Go ahead. 20 MEMBER IBE: Okay. Thank you, Mr. 21 Wrobel. Ms. Shiek, I must say I empathize 22 with what you have said today. And 23 initially I must commend you for your 24 innovation. I think that I have been on
72 1 this Board now for about a year and a half. 2 This I will probably say is the first time 3 that I have seen someone come before this 4 Board with something more creative other 5 than the just the usual business, the same 6 usual business as we get here, people just 7 want stuff for the same reasons. 8 You give me reasons to believe that 9 there are people in this community who have 10 interesting ideas in moving businesses 11 forward. What you are thinking about doing 12 is quite creative. Considering the parking 13 issues, I will be in favor of what you are 14 doing because of the innovative aspect of it 15 and because you are taking steps, creative 16 steps to generate new income and to keep the 17 business open and also to insure that other 18 businesses within that same area stays open. 19 I must say I commend you for that and 20 I applaud you for your efforts and you can 21 count on my vote assuming my colleagues 22 agree with your application. Thank you. 23 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Yes, Mr. Wrobel? 24 VICE-CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Thank you,
73 1 Mr. Chair. I have watched this building 2 since it's been built and according to our 3 calculations we are short 14 spaces. Even in 4 the building's heyday when everything was 5 occupied I have never seen it more than 6 three quarters full. There is a lot of 7 parking out back. That being said, I 8 think -- and the hours of operation don't 9 coincide primarily with the Fifth Avenue 10 Ballroom which is more of a later evening 11 crowd, so I don't really see a problem. 12 But to me, granting a variance is the 13 last thing you really want to do. I mean, 14 it's the last course when all other options 15 have been looked at and everything. That's 16 why right now I really kind of like the idea 17 as Mr. Spencer suggested, that a parking 18 study be done and presented to the Planning 19 Commission. That way if something changes 20 in the building we are looking at the big 21 picture. We're not just looking at this one 22 thing now. Who is to say that they may 23 change 24 something --
74 1 MS. SHIEK: Yeah, I believe the 2 parking consultant has been retained a few 3 years ago. I think maybe the Planning 4 Department or Building Department, but I try 5 to get the study, the parking study, expert 6 study but I cannot locate the file. This is 7 many years ago. 8 VICE-CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: That's 9 something that maybe you should talk to our 10 Planning Department about. But I lean more 11 towards getting the parking study and just 12 get it updated because I just hate granting 13 variances. To me it's a last alternative. 14 If we can solve this without granting a 15 variance it might work out better for 16 everybody. 17 MS. SHIEK: You also notice the 18 parking is always vacant. 19 VICE-CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Yeah, it's 20 vacant, but that's irrelevant to this 21 discussion. We have got requirements that 22 we require so many. And we all know we're 23 not hitting that level, so if I was held up 24 against a brick wall and said would you give
75 1 a variance or not, I would. But I am 2 looking for another alternative to prevent 3 us having a variance. That's all. 4 MS. SHIEK: But that's the reason why 5 I come -- 6 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. Thank 7 you. Yes, Mr. Cassis? 8 MEMBER CASSIS: You know my colleague, 9 Mr. Ibe, said a very, very good thing 10 tonight. I go along with it quite a bit. 11 But beyond that, I used to be in the 12 restaurant business and for that reason I am 13 going to ask you a few questions. 14 MS. SHIEK: Yes. 15 MEMBER CASSIS: You want 36 seats, 16 right? 17 MS. SHIEK: Right. 18 MEMBER CASSIS: Now, how are you going 19 to put the 36 seats? You are going to put 20 tables, right? 21 MS. SHIEK: Yes. 22 MEMBER CASSIS: Do you always let's 23 say put the tables that can seat four 24 people, do you always seat four people or
76 1 sometimes two people? 2 MS. SHIEK: Sometimes two people. 3 MEMBER CASSIS: Sometimes two people. 4 MS. SHIEK: Sometimes one people. 5 MEMBER CASSIS: That has been my 6 experience. I mean, I would have 150 seat 7 restaurant and I would be glad to have 75 or 8 80 people there. So that's number one. 9 Number two, usually people don't drive 10 one at a time. Most of them come two people 11 in a car or three people in a car. So, that 12 would really take care of whatever, we're 13 talking about a very close situation. And I 14 think the calculation of the seating here is 15 kind of, we can agree or disagree on -- I 16 mean, when does it happen that you really 17 would have 36 people there sitting at those 18 tables? 19 MS. SHIEK: Very -- 20 MEMBER CASSIS: Very rare. 21 MS. SHIEK: That's true. 22 MEMBER CASSIS: And how many times 23 would you have each one of them driving a 24 car? Very rarely. And for this reason I
77 1 think I would go along with this. And 2 forgive me, Colleague Wrobel, but to take 3 this lady and have her go through the hoops, 4 pay a $100 here, $200 there, make a study 5 here, make a study there. I think would be 6 creating a little bit of a hardship on this 7 very hard working lady. 8 I would go along with this. Thank 9 you, Mr. Chair. 10 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. Yes, 11 Mr. Ghannam? 12 MEMBER GHANNAM: I just have a 13 question about this parking study. If a 14 parking study is done and it turned out 15 favorable to the Applicant would that opt 16 the need to get a variance in this case? Or 17 how would that work? 18 MS. KUDLA: It would basically be the 19 Planning Commission approving less parking 20 for this situation. 21 MEMBER GHANNAM: Ma'am, what are you 22 taking away from where you intend on putting 23 these tables, what are you taking out of 24 that area?
78 1 MS. SHIEK: You know, my supermarket 2 is 5,000 square feet. Actually I am only 3 using 2,000 square feet. It's a big space. 4 It's totally vacant. I don't have to move 5 anything. I can just put the table there. 6 MEMBER GHANNAM: So, it's just vacant 7 floor space? 8 MS. SHIEK: Yeah. 9 MEMBER GHANNAM: The other part is it 10 also vacant, the other 2,000 or 2,500? 11 MS. SHIEK: Actually my space is two 12 store. I have two entrance and here I make 13 a drawing there by myself. Over here is the 14 supermarket and the other side is the 15 kitchen and the big open area. 16 MEMBER GHANNAM: And the hours of 17 operation of your business are what? 18 MS. SHIEK: 10:00 to 8:00. 19 MEMBER GHANNAM: How many other 20 tenants do you have in this building that 21 you're at? 22 MS. SHIEK: Two tenants. 23 MEMBER GHANNAM: Do you know what their 24 hours of operation are?
79 1 MS. SHIEK: I know the Mexican food, I 2 think restaurant is like the regular 3 restaurant, I believe it's from, I don't 4 know, from 11:00 to 9:00. But I believe 5 that's normal restaurant hours. 6 But the Fifth Avenue they are closed 7 on Sundays and their business hours post on 8 the door is from 4:00 to 2:00, but actually 9 their customer coming for the bar is after 10 8:00 or 9:00. 11 MEMBER GHANNAM: From 4:00 p.m. or 12 2:00 a.m.? 13 MS. SHIEK: Yes. It's posted on the 14 door. 15 MEMBER GHANNAM: Right. I understand. 16 I don't have any other questions. Thank 17 you. 18 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. Yes, 19 Ms. Krieger? 20 MEMBER KRIEGER: Question for the 21 City. If we grant a variance for this does 22 it go with this business or it goes with the 23 Building and -- 24 MS. KUDLA: She is requesting it for
80 1 her restaurant business specifically. 2 MEMBER KRIEGER: So, if somebody else 3 was to move in -- 4 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: They don't get 5 it. 6 MEMBER KRIEGER: They don't get it. 7 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: We can specify 8 that in the motion. Strictly for this 9 business only. 10 MEMBER KRIEGER: Could they come back 11 to us in a year and say how it's going? Or 12 as soon as we grant it and it goes through 13 it's continuous? 14 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: It's continuous 15 for them. 16 MEMBER KRIEGER: Thank you. 17 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Yes? Mr. Ibe, 18 were you saying something? 19 MEMBER IBE: Yes, I just have a 20 question to the City. Because I know you 21 mentioned about the study, right, for the -- 22 is it the parking? 23 VICE CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Yes. 24 MEMBER IBE: Yes. Based on Member
81 1 Wrobel's comments, how long will it take to 2 accomplish that if there were to be one? 3 MS. KUDLA: The parking study itself 4 would probably take a couple of months and 5 then getting the Planning Commission might 6 take another 30 days. 7 MEMBER IBE: So, it would be 90 days 8 about. Would that be a course that the 9 Applicant, the Petitioner has to pay as a 10 cost? 11 MS. KUDLA: The Petitioner would have 12 to pay for the parking study and there would 13 be the standard fee for the Planning 14 Commission. 15 MEMBER IBE: Is it possible, and 16 please correct me if I'm wrong, that we can 17 have -- in light of the urgency. I listened 18 to this nice lady argue passionately about 19 laying off someone in about 30 days if I am 20 correct, I think that's what I heard. If 21 she is to wait for 90 days, it seems like 22 this is more of time is of the essence it 23 appears to me. If anyone needs a bailout 24 and a stimulus, I think she deserves it
82 1 right now. Not 90 days to from now. She may 2 not be around 90 days from now to come back 3 to this Board or to the Planning Commission. 4 Is it possible we can give her some kind of 5 relief that says 120 days or six months 6 contingent on what happens with this study? 7 That way the business can at least be open. 8 Is that possible? 9 MS. KUDLA: Yes. 10 MEMBER IBE: Okay, very well. 11 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Were you saying 12 something, Mr. Bauer? 13 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. One thing on 14 that, Mr. Ibe. This young lady would have 15 to pay for that. Now that's thousands of 16 dollars and I don't think we would like to 17 see that happen. 18 MEMBER IBE: Absolutely, I agree with 19 you. 20 MEMBER BAUER: We need this young lady 21 with us. 22 MEMBER IBE: Absolutely. 23 MEMBER BAUER: And I think with these 24 times being like they are, I think we ought
83 1 to give it to her now. 2 MEMBER IBE: Mr. Chair, I completely 3 concur with that statement. I don't believe 4 that she should have to spend a dime of her 5 money. This particular business I know 6 exactly where it is. It's always vacant. I 7 don't believe we need to have studies upon 8 studies to understand what it takes to run a 9 business. 10 Frankly, this is the first Petitioner 11 I have seen in one and a half years of 12 sitting on this bench who has come up with 13 something that makes sense, common sense, 14 simple business sense. I own a business 15 myself. She makes common business sense. I 16 mean, if everyone thinks the way she does, I 17 think we should be on our way to recovery 18 from this rescission. 19 Thank you very much, Madam. I have 20 nothing further, Mr. Chair. 21 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: May I have -- 22 yes, Ms. Krieger? 23 MEMBER KRIEGER: May I make a motion? 24 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Go ahead.
84 1 MEMBER KRIEGER: In case number: 2 09-008, 25750 Novi Road, Suite 102, Basic 3 Asian Market. Theresa Shiek, Vice-President 4 of Bistro of Grace, LLC, is requesting a 5 variance to permit the installation of a 36 6 seat restaurant area. And I would move to 7 approve this variance that the setback, 8 frontage height and density requirements 9 unreasonably prevent the use of the property 10 for permitted use. 11 That the Applicant has stated that in 12 30 days she may have to lay somebody off, 13 she won't know if she will be in business in 14 the next 90 days. That the variance will 15 provide substantial justice to the 16 Petitioner and surrounding property owners 17 and zoning district. It is unique to this 18 property and no increase of fire, danger or 19 public safety is present nor adequate light 20 and air is provided to adjacent properties. 21 And property values will not be diminished 22 in surrounding areas and that this variance 23 will go with this business. 24 MEMBER BAUER: Second the motion.
85 1 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. 2 MS. KUDLA: I think you probably want 3 to amend the motion to indicate that the 4 variance is for 14 parking spaces and it's 5 not for the restaurant seating and it's 6 specifically for this spaces. 7 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: And for this 8 tenant only. 9 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes. 10 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 11 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Just to verify. 12 We sent out how many notices? 37 notices 13 and there were no responses. 14 MEMBER BAUER: Thirty-two notices 15 mailed. Three came back no response. 16 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: No response. 17 Just for the record. 18 Thank you. The motion has been made 19 and seconded. Do I see any further 20 discussions? 21 (No response.) 22 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Seeing none, 23 will you please call the roll, Mr. Boulard. 24 MR. BOULARD: Member Wrobel?
86 1 VICE-CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Yes. 2 MR. BOULARD: Chairman Sanghvi? 3 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Yes. 4 MR. BOULARD: Member Krieger? 5 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes. 6 MR. BOULARD: Member Ibe? 7 MEMBER IBE: Yes. 8 MR. BOULARD: Member Ghannam? 9 MEMBER GHANNAM: Yes. 10 MR. BOULARD: Member Cassis? 11 MEMBER CASSIS: Yes. 12 MR. BOULARD: Member Bauer? 13 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 14 MR. BOULARD: Motion is approved 7-0. 15 MS. SHIEK: Thank you very much. 16 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Good luck. 17 18 Okay, moving along to the last 19 case for the evening. Case number: 09-011, 20 27275 Haggerty Road, Novi Research Park. 21 CSFB 2001-CP4 Haggerty Road is requesting a 22 variance to allow a business center sign 23 which contains the names of the tenants 24 located at 27175-27275 Haggerty Road, Novi
87 1 Research Park. 2 The property is zoned OST and is 3 located west of Haggerty and south of Twelve 4 Mile Road. 5 Will you please identify yourself and 6 state your name and address. And if you are 7 an attorney? 8 MR. PONIUS (ph): Yes, I am. 9 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Go ahead. 10 MR. PONIUS: My name is Mark Ponius 11 (ph). I am an attorney. I am with 12 Finsilver Friedman Management Company. Our 13 business address is 34975 West Twelve Mile 14 Road, Farmington Hills. And I am here on 15 behalf of a lender client of ours, that 16 funny name CSFB 2001-CP4 Haggerty Road, LLC, 17 which is an entity of L & R Property Group. 18 We have been managing this two 19 building property since July of 2008. And 20 the two properties address 27175 and 27275 21 Haggerty. Unfortunately our assets were 22 given back to the lender. These two 23 buildings were built in 1999 and a 24 substantial portion of them were leased to
88 1 Tower Automotive. Tower Automotive was a 2 great tenants for the former owner and 3 unfortunately he had a number of financial 4 difficulties, went through a series of rent 5 reductions. They occupied more than one of 6 the two buildings. I am sure this is all 7 ancient history for all of you. 8 What we are left with is Tower 9 Automotive leaving the property and 10 unfortunately having two buildings that are 11 substantially vacant. Our job for our 12 lender client is, of course, to manage them 13 and re-lease them. We have a major tenant 14 who has an interest in the back building for 15 this property. And that tenant has asked us 16 to apply for a signage variance to somehow 17 create some signage on the road for their 18 business. 19 So, we met with the Ordinance officers 20 and recognizing the status of this property, 21 they suggested that we apply, be rejected 22 and come before the Board and create a sign 23 which we've designed in the package that 24 would accomplish these objectives and give
89 1 this back building some opportunity to have 2 identity on Haggerty Road. This is sort of 3 a -- may I put these? 4 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Please, go 5 ahead. 6 MR. PONIUS: This is the sign that we 7 originally included in our original 8 application. And what we tried to do was 9 achieve some sort of signage that would 10 allow for the three major tenants to be 11 identified along Haggerty Road. The 12 difficulty with this property is the fact 13 that there is a back building. The back 14 building is only accessible off of Haggerty. 15 Not through some sort of internal road or 16 road system that it would face up to. And 17 it faces backwards, it faces backwards 18 towards the ITC Building. So, these folks 19 who are interested in leasing a substantial 20 portion of it wants some corporate identity. 21 They want some identity to be seen from the 22 road. 23 I also should note, and this is 24 in my application, that this company has
90 1 applied to the City of Novi certain 2 benefits. They have been granted a certain 3 status by the MADC. They will create 60 to 4 70 jobs and we think they will be a terrific 5 corporate tenant for the community. They 6 have asked us not to identify them at this 7 time, but it is a matter of public record. 8 The signage, Mr. Boulard asked me in 9 doing our temporary sign, sort of identify 10 what it would look like to have three names 11 up on the sign. So we did that in our 12 temporary sign. Of course, the temporary 13 sign doesn't reflect the kind of finish that 14 we would have. We would use a metal that is 15 similar to the exterior trim of the building 16 so that it's done in a professional manner. 17 The hardship that we 18 really have here is the configuration of the 19 buildings that we have inherited and the 20 fact that this is just not a traditional 21 corporate park with roadways coming through 22 it where this back building has the 23 opportunity to be seen. 24 In our package I also included some
91 1 examples of -- this is a little difficult to 2 see. This is the temporary sign shown with 3 the building which is really not that large 4 in scale. It's exactly the same size that 5 is, I believe it's the same size as the 6 existing sign that's there today, or if not, 7 it is a sign that is allowable under the 8 Signage Ordinance based upon it's proximity 9 to the right-of-way. 10 These are examples just for your 11 reference of the existing wall signage on 12 the buildings today. These are completely 13 not visible from Haggerty Road whatsoever. 14 These are the two remaining tenants in the 15 property. 16 This view just shows you Haggerty Road 17 over here. I don't know if you can see my 18 finger. Haggerty Road is on this side and 19 this building is the building that we're 20 talking about not having any visibility from 21 Haggerty Road and having an issue related to 22 providing some sort of signage on the 23 roadway and corporate identity. 24 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Okay, thank you.
92 1 I don't see anybody in the audience 2 but I will go through the motion. If 3 anybody wants to make a comment regarding 4 this case this is the time. 5 (No response.) 6 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Seeing none, we 7 will close the public comment section and 8 request Mr. Bauer to see if there is any 9 correspondence. 10 MEMBER BAUER: It was 133 notices 11 mailed. Nineteen were returned. No 12 responses. 13 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. 14 Building Department, Mr. Boulard? 15 MR. BOULARD: I will try to keep 16 things brief. The only points that I would 17 like to make is that this sign is a reface, 18 a request to be allowed to reface an 19 existing business center sign which would 20 normally not be allowed to have logos of 21 individual business names on it. So, there 22 is no additional signage. As I understand 23 the plan is not to replace the business 24 center sign, this business sign with another
93 1 sign later on. 2 MR. PONIUS: That is correct. 3 MR. BOULARD: Any other questions I 4 will be happy to answer. Thank you. 5 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Very nice. I 6 did go to your location. There is nothing 7 you can see from the back building. So I 8 appreciate your comment. Thank you. 9 Open it up for the Board. Yes, Mr. 10 Bauer? 11 MEMBER BAUER: It says in your 12 statement that you would remove the existing 13 research park? 14 MR. PONIUS: I'm sorry, could you 15 repeat that? 16 MEMBER BAUER: It says in your -- 17 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: To remove the 18 existing sign. 19 MEMBER BAUER: That you would remove 20 the existing Novi Research Park sign? 21 MR. PONIUS: The existing Novi Research 22 sign is what we built the temporary sign 23 over. So, yes, that is correct. 24 MEMBER BAUER: It's not two signs?
94 1 MR. PONIUS: No, it's not. It's 2 absolutely one sign. 3 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Yes, Mr. 4 Ghannam? 5 MEMBER GHANNAM: Thank you, Mr. Chair. 6 I too am in support of this. I think 7 clearly the back building needs some type of 8 identification. Given the previous tenant 9 (inaudible), but I think clearly this would 10 meet the exceptions to the rule and you have 11 met your burden and I would be in support of 12 that. 13 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. 14 Anybody else? Would anybody like to make a 15 motion? 16 MEMBER GHANNAM: I'll make a motion. 17 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Go ahead. 18 MEMBER GHANNAM: Thank you, Mr. Chair. 19 I will move in case number 09-011, 27175 to 20 27275 Novi Research Park to approve the 21 petition as requested to resurface or place 22 another surface on the existing sign to 23 identify three separate businesses. I think 24 clearly the uniqueness of this setup of two
95 1 buildings are exceptional for this 2 particular property given now the multiple 3 tenant situation. 4 So, I think clearly this is an 5 exceptional and unique property and it does 6 not result in the conditions that exist 7 generally in the city or that are self 8 created. And this is a situation where the 9 bank inherited property due to unfortunate 10 circumstances. So, it's not due to any 11 action by the lender. 12 I think the failure to grant relief 13 would unreasonably prevent or limit the use 14 of the property and will result in 15 substantially more than a mere inconvenience 16 or inability to attain a higher or financial 17 return. To grant a relief will not result 18 in a use of a structure that is incompatible 19 or unreasonably interferes with adjacent or 20 surrounding properties. And, in fact, will 21 result in substantial justice being done to 22 both the Applicant and adjacent or 23 surrounding properties. And I think clearly 24 it's consistent with the spirt of the
96 1 Ordinance. 2 And I would also congratulate you and 3 hope these tenants do move in. 4 MR. PONIUS: Thank you. 5 MEMBER IBE: I will second that. 6 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: The motion has 7 been duly made and seconded. Any further 8 discussion? 9 (No response.) 10 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Seeing none, 11 will you kindly call the roll. 12 MR. BOULARD: Member Bauer? 13 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 14 MR. BOULARD: Member Cassis? 15 MEMBER CASSIS: Yes. 16 MR. BOULARD: Member Ghannam? 17 MEMBER GHANNAM: Yes. 18 MR. BOULARD: Member Ibe? 19 MEMBER IBE: Yes. 20 MR. BOULARD: Member Krieger? 21 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes. 22 MR. BOULARD: Chairman Sanghvi? 23 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Yes. 24 MR. BOULARD: Member Wrobel?
97 1 VICE-CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Yes. 2 MR. BOULARD: Motion is approved 7-0. 3 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Well, 4 congratulations. 5 MR. PONIUS: Thank you much for your 6 time. 7 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Good luck. 8 MR. PONIUS: I appreciate it. 9 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: May the luck of 10 the Irish be with you. 11 MR. PONIUS: I hope so. 12 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: I think this 13 brings to an end our agenda and I don't 14 think there is any other business so the 15 Chair would entertain a motion to adjourn. 16 MS. KUDLA: We have one item of 17 business that we have to address. 18 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Oh, I beg your 19 pardon. 20 MS. KUDLA: Regarding the voting for 21 the officers. Last time we did the vote by 22 ballot rather than voice vote. In order to 23 meet the requirements of Open Meetings Act 24 we need to have everyone write their names
98 1 on their ballot slip and return them to us 2 so that we can have them for the record in 3 case anyone in another department wants to 4 review them. 5 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: And while we are 6 on that subject, maybe we can draw up a 7 little amendment to the bylaws that under, 8 during this kind of situation we have a 9 secret ballot for election. 10 MS. KUDLA: We can't do that. The 11 Open Meetings Act wouldn't allow it. So, 12 the only way that we can do it at all is to 13 have names written on them. 14 MEMBER GHANNAM: So rewrite our vote 15 and put our names on it? 16 MS. KUDLA: I am going to give you, we 17 have the actual votes from the record. And 18 I am just going to sort of lay them out and 19 you can come up one at a time and take yours 20 back. 21 MR. CASSIS: I was going to say, 22 what if we forgot? 23 MS. KUDLA: Hopefully you recognize 24 your handwriting.
99 1 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Okay, the motion 2 has been made to adjourn. 3 MEMBER GHANNAM: Second. 4 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: The meeting is 5 hereby adjourned. Thank you. 6 (The meeting was adjourned at 7 8:41 p.m.) 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24
100 1 C E R T I F I C A T E 2 3 4 I, Mona L. Talton, do hereby certify 5 that I have recorded stenographically the 6 proceedings had and testimony taken in the 7 above-entitled matter at the time and place 8 hereinbefore set forth, and I do further 9 certify that the foregoing transcript, 10 consisting of (84) typewritten pages, is a 11 true and correct transcript of my said 12 stenographic notes. 13 14 15 16 17 18 _____________________________ 19 Mona L. Talton, 20 Certified Shorthand Reporter 21 22 March 27, 2009 23 24
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