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REGULAR MEETING - ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
Proceedings had and testimony taken in the matters of the ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS, at City of Novi, 45175 West Ten Mile Road, Novi, Michigan, Monday, March 10, 2008.
1 Novi, Michigan
2 Monday, March 10, 2008
3 7:00 p.m.
4 - - - - - -
5 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: The time is now
6 7:01 and I would like to call the Monday,
7 March 10th, Zoning Board of Appeals meeting
8 to order.
9 Mr. Vice-Chair, would you please lead
10 the Board in the Pledge of Allegiance.
11 VICE-CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: I will be
12 delighted. I pledge allegiance to the flag
13 of the United States of America and to the
14 Republic for which it stands, one nation
15 under God indivisible with liberty and
16 justice for all.
17 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Ms. Working,
18 would you please call the roll.
19 MS. WORKING: Member Bauer?
20 MEMBER BAUER: Present.
21 MS. WORKING: Member Sanghvi?
22 VICE-CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Here.
23 MS. WORKING: Member Shroyer?
24 MEMBER SHROYER: Here.
1 MS. WORKING: Chairman Fischer?
2 CHAIRMAN FISCHER: Present.
3 MS. WORKING: Member Krieger?
4 Member Wrobel?
5 MEMBER WROBEL: Present.
6 MS. WORKING: Member Ibe?
7 MEMBER IBE: Present.
8 MS. WORKING: Member Krieger is not
9 here, Mr. Chair.
10 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Thank you, Ms.
11 Working. We do have a quorum, so this
12 meeting is now in session.
13 We do have a change of format for this
14 evening. Oftentimes in the past we had our
15 Vice-Chair read the rules of conduct.
16 The rules of conduct can be found on
17 the agenda which is in the back of the room
18 or it also can be found at the City Hall or
19 on the web site. And for audience members
20 at home the cable team should be working on
21 running the rules of conduct for you at this
22 time on the bottom of the screen.
23 The Zoning Board of Appeal is a
24 Hearing Board empowered by the Novi City
1 Charter to hear appeals seeking variance
2 from the application of the Novi Zoning
3 Ordinances. It takes a vote of at least
4 four members to approve a variance request
5 and a vote of the majority present to deny a
7 The Board consist of seven members and
8 one alternate member. The alternate member
9 has the right to participate in all board
10 discussions and hearings, but may not vote
11 except in the absence or abstention of a
12 regular remember.
13 Tonight with Ms. Krieger absent
14 actually, is our new person, Member Gannum
15 (ph) --
16 MS. WORKING: Is he not present.
17 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Tonight we have
18 six Board Members currently. Have we heard
19 from Ms. Krieger as to whether or not she
20 would be here?
21 MS. WORKING: I have not.
22 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: At this time
23 I'll ask any of the Petitioners since we
24 don't have a full seven member Board if
1 anyone would like to table their case at
2 this time? Seeing none, we will proceed and
3 hopefully Ms. Krieger will join us.
4 We do have an agenda in front of us.
5 Are there any changes?
6 MS. WORKING: Mr. Chair, I would like
7 to just bring to your attention that the
8 case number seven on the agenda, ZBA 08-007,
9 has been postponed to the April meeting and
10 you have an updated agenda reflecting that
12 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Perfect. Is
13 there a motion to approve?
14 MEMBER BAUER: So moved --
15 VICE-CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Second.
16 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: All in favor of
17 approving the agenda say aye?
18 BOARD MEMBERS: Aye.
19 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Opposed say nay?
20 Agenda is approved.
21 In our member packets tonight everyone
22 should have received the meeting minutes
23 from February 2008. I will hold off and we
24 can review those over the next month and we
1 will slate those for approval during the
2 April meeting.
3 At this time we're to the public
4 remarks section of the agenda. Is there
5 anyone in the audience that wishes to
6 comment to the Board regarding anything that
7 is not on the agenda tonight? Seeing none,
8 we'll close the public remarks section and
9 move on to our first case.
11 That is case number: 07-094
12 filed by Jeffrey Wainwright for Paradise
13 Park located at 45799 Grand River.
14 Is the Petitioner here today? Did it
15 snow in the last hour that I'm not aware of?
16 MEMBER SHROYER: They think it's
17 tomorrow night, Tuesday.
18 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: They might. All
19 right, we will go ahead and postpone that to
20 the end of the meeting. We'll revisit that
21 and see if the Petitioner will show up.
23 Moving along to case number two on the
24 agenda which is case number: 07-097 filed
1 by Patrick Stieber of Allied Signs for Men's
2 Warehouse Tuxedo.
3 Is the Petitioner here today?
4 MS. DUMLOWE (ph): Yes.
5 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: The request is
6 for 27500 Novi Road, Space D290. The
7 Applicant is requesting a 41.7 square foot
8 illuminated wall sign variance for the
9 placement of an exterior elevation wall sign
10 located at said address at Twelve Oaks Mall.
11 The property is zoned RC and is located
12 north of I-96 and east of Novi Road.
13 Are you an attorney by chance?
14 MS. DUMLOWE: No, I am not.
15 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Would you please
16 raise your right hand and be sworn in by our
18 VICE-CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Do you
19 swear or affirm that whatever you testify in
20 this case to be the truth and nothing but
21 the truth?
22 MS. DUMLOWE: Yes.
23 VICE-CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you.
24 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: If you could
1 then go ahead and state your name and
2 address and proceed with your case.
3 MS. DUMLOWE: My name is Carrie
4 Dumlowe. I work with Allied Signs and my
5 address is 33650 Giftos Drive in Clinton
6 Township, Michigan.
7 We are requesting an additional wall
8 sign to replace the one that we had removed
9 when Men's Wearhouse updated their brand to
10 MW Tux. The sign was removed. It was
11 previously approved. The client was
12 supposed to add a rear entrance to that, the
13 north wall which the sign was removed from
14 and they never actually did that. So we are
15 requesting that we be allowed to reinstall a
16 new sign with their new branding on that
18 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Thank you very
19 much. I will let everyone on the Board know
20 that in this case there were 44 notices
21 mailed with one approval and zero
23 The approval comes from Bruce A. Lloyd
24 of 27780 Novi Road, Number 110. Approval
1 saying: I see no problem with this request.
2 Is there anyone in the audience that
3 wishes to make a comment on this case?
4 Seeing none, we'll turn to the Building
5 Department and/or legal counsel to see if
6 there are any comments?
7 MR. AMOLSCH: No comments.
8 MS. KUDLA: No.
9 MR. FOX: No.
10 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Seeing none,
11 I'll go ahead and open it up for Board
13 Member Bauer?
14 MEMBER BAUER: On the one from 2007 I
15 have a square footage of 30.75. Now they're
16 asking for 41.70. Did it grow?
17 MS. DUMLOWE: I'm sorry what was that?
18 MEMBER BAUER: In the -- excuse me
19 this was for another one.
20 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Mr. Shroyer --
21 Member Shroyer?
22 MEMBER SHROYER: Thank you. I believe
23 what we were trying to look for is, how big
24 was the original sign that had been
2 MS. DUMLOWE: Let me see if I do have
3 that. I actually did look for that before I
4 came here, I figured that that would be one
5 of the questions that you guys would ask.
6 The survey was done before we received this
7 scope of work. However, I do know that the
8 new sign compared to the existing, the
9 previous branding are a lot smaller.
10 Instead of saying After Hours Formal
11 Wear it just got an M and a W and the word
12 Tux. So, as far as square footage I can
13 almost guarantee you that it is smaller. By
14 how much, I am not sure.
15 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Mr. Amolsch, can
16 you confirm that?
17 MR. AMOLSCH: The file is missing from
18 the files and the permit did not have a
19 square footage on it.
20 MEMBER SHROYER: Looking from their
21 rendering I can't see that much of a
22 difference. They look like the same size.
23 MS. DUMLOWE: Approximately, yeah.
24 MEMBER SHROYER: The wording is
1 smaller, but the sign itself is the same
2 size. Also, are we aware of how many other
3 stores at the mall that do not have outside
4 entrances have signs?
5 MR. AMOLSCH: There is none. All
6 signs at the mall have extra entranceways.
7 MEMBER SHROYER: I thought they did. I
8 have a concern about that. How many stores
9 do we have at the mall? Several hundred.
10 And this is the only one that's not an
11 anchor store with an outside entrance that
12 has a sign. So, I am a little concerned
13 about that and I'll listen to the rest of
14 the Board and see what they have to say and
15 move forward on decisions.
16 Thank you, Mr. Chair.
17 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Thank you,
18 Member Shroyer.
19 Other Board Members? Member Wrobel?
20 MEMBER WROBEL: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
21 I agree with Member Shroyer. I have a big
22 concern with allowing this type of sign
23 since none of the others currently have it.
24 I think it sets a precedent which would open
1 up the doors for us to have multiple signs
2 there and I don't know if that's what we
3 quite want. But I will hear what my other
4 colleagues say before I decide.
5 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Thank you,
6 Member Wrobel.
7 VICE-CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: I agree a
8 hundred percent. There are no signs hanging
9 up on the walls and it really sets a wrong
10 kind of precedent. I would have a very hard
11 time supporting this. Thank you.
12 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Thank you, Mr.
13 Vice-Chair. I would echo those sentiments
14 as well. I don't see the practical
15 difficulty for this store versus the other
16 tenants in the mall, what makes this one
17 require that additional signage outside.
18 And I don't think we have seen that
19 evidenced tonight.
20 Any other Board Members? Member
22 MEMBER SHROYER: If no one else wants
23 to speak I guess I can make a motion. On
24 case number: 07-097 I move that we deny a
1 variance which is case number: 07-097 filed
2 by Men's Wearhouse Tux because the
3 petitioner has not established a practical
4 difficulty. There has not been established
5 that the compliance with strict letter of
6 the restrictions of the ordinance would
7 reasonably prevent the use of the property
8 or be unnecessarily burdensome because the
9 Petitioner has not established a uniqueness
10 from all other mall stores without outside
11 entrances that would justify their receiving
12 permission for an outside illuminated wall
14 MEMBER BAUER: Second.
15 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: There is a
16 motion and a second on the floor. Any other
17 further comments? Seeing none, Ms. Working,
18 will you please call the roll.
19 MS. WORKING: Member Shroyer?
20 MEMBER SHROYER: Yes.
21 MS. WORKING: Member Bauer?
22 MEMBER BAUER: Yes.
23 MS. WORKING: Member Wrobel?
24 MEMBER WROBEL: Yes.
1 MS. WORKING: Member Sanghvi?
2 VICE-CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Yes.
3 MS. WORKING: Member Ibe?
4 MEMBER IBE: Yes.
5 MS. WORKING: Chairman Fischer?
6 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Aye.
7 MS. WORKING: Motion to deny passes
9 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: I'm sorry, at
10 this time your case has been denied.
11 MS. DUMLOWE: That's okay. Thank you
12 very much.
13 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Thank you.
15 Moving along with case number
16 three on the agenda we have case number:
17 08-002 filed by Joseph Locricchio of
18 Trillium Village of Novi located at Nine
19 Mile Road and Haggerty Road.
20 Is the Petitioner here today?
21 MR. LOCRICCHIO: Yes.
22 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Please come up
23 to the podium there. The Petitioner is
24 requesting one 15.5 square foot area sign
1 variance and one 3 foot sign height variance
2 for an eight foot tall real estate marking
3 sign to be located at the entrance of
4 Trillium Drive in Novi. The property is
5 zoned R-3 and located west of Haggerty Road
6 and north of Nine Mile Road.
7 Are you an attorney, sir?
8 MR. LOCRICCHIO: I am not.
9 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: If you could
10 please raise your hand and be sworn in by
11 our Vice-Chair.
12 VICE-CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Do you
13 swear or affirm that you will tell the truth
14 in case number: 08-002?
15 MR. LOCRICCHIO: I do.
16 VICE-CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you.
17 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Please state
18 your name and address and proceed with your
20 MR. LOCRICCHIO: Joe Locricchio with
21 Trillium Village of Novi. Our corporate
22 address is 2617 Beacon Hill, Auburn Hills,
23 Michigan 48326.
24 We are requesting this variance
1 because Trillium is a for lease condominium
2 project. It is not a traditional apartment
3 complex that you would think is for lease,
4 number one. It's a smaller project. It's
5 only 34 units but it is identified by most
6 people as a fee simple project versus a for
7 lease condo project. Because of the type of
8 unit that it is, it's an upscale
9 condominium. And, again, it's only 34 units
10 so you don't get the traffic or the identity
11 as an apartment complex.
12 And we have -- our core customer is
13 typically a corporate user that's here on an
14 interim basis, a contractual basis whether
15 they're here for perhaps six months, perhaps
16 two years, but we have continual turnover
17 and inconsistent turnover. And we need to
18 have the marketing opportunity. Our window
19 here is small.
20 We don't have a boulevard entrance, we
21 just have a curb cut. There is really not
22 an opportunity to put the sign on the
23 right-of-way area. So we need to have
24 something that will attract people to us and
1 this is really our primary form of
2 marketing. So, to have the normal size sign
3 it would be pretty well sitting where the
4 existing sign is and would be hardly seen.
5 And, so, it's essential to the ongoing
6 viability of the project that we have the
7 opportunity to market in this way.
8 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Thank you, sir.
9 Let me tell the Board that at this point
10 there were 54 notices mailed with zero
11 approvals and zero objections.
12 Is there anyone in the audience that
13 wishes to make a comment on this case?
14 Seeing none, I'll move to the Building
15 Department and legal counsel.
16 MR. AMOLSCH: No comment, sir.
17 MS. KUDLA: We have no comment.
18 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: I will open it
19 up for Board discussion. Member Sanghvi?
20 VICE-CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Question.
21 Is this any different than the sign they
22 have had all along?
23 MR. AMOLSCH: Yes, it's a bigger sign.
24 VICE-CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: How much
1 bigger is this one?
2 MR. AMOLSCH: The original sign was a
3 4x4, 16 square feet.
4 VICE-CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: How is
5 business? How are you doing in this
6 economic times?
7 MR. LOCRICCHIO: Well, it's okay.
8 During the life of this project we have only
9 had one period where we are fully leased.
10 Right now we have a handful of vacancies.
11 We had several contracts that expired
12 earlier than anticipated, so we have been
13 hit with more vacancies than we are
14 comfortable with. I mean, we are
15 comfortable with zero vacancies, but it
16 hasn't really happened yet, so.
17 VICE-CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: How do you
18 think this increase in the size of your sign
19 is going to have any affect on --
20 MR. LOCRICCHIO: Just because that's
21 really the reason we get people into this
22 project is because of the drive by because
23 it's such a great location. That's what our
24 marketing window is. And as we said, it's
1 not readily identified as a for lease
2 project. So, people driving by that's how
3 we get them in the door.
4 VICE-CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Let me put
5 it another way. Why do you think the other
6 sign did any worse than the new sign will
8 MR. LOCRICCHIO: Well, this new sign
9 is here currently. It works. I mean, it
10 brings people into the project. So I can
11 tell you that it is very effective and it's,
12 again, it's our sole, other than
13 advertising, you know, internet and
14 newspaper print and whatnot, this is the way
15 we get people here. And our feedback we get
16 from our customers, they came in and say,
17 oh, I didn't even realize you guys were
18 here. We saw your sign and we didn't know
19 that this was a for lease unit. We thought
20 it was a for sale unit. So, it's kind of
21 what we have to overcome.
22 VICE-CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: So, you
23 think a sizeable difference has been made by
24 this new sign?
1 MR. LOCRICCHIO: I do, absolutely.
2 VICE-CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you.
3 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Member Wrobel?
4 MEMBER WROBEL: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
5 Right now you are saying this is a for
6 lease property. If I recall when they were
7 first built they were for sale, if I do
8 remember correctly.
9 MR. LOCRICCHIO: You know, I don't
10 think so. I think it's always been a for
11 lease. But perhaps I could be wrong about
12 that. I have been involved on the marketing
13 side of this project for about two years.
14 Ironically I was involved in the
15 original acquisition of the land, but I have
16 been apart from this project since that
18 MEMBER WROBEL: Will this stay a
19 leased property or is this going to be
20 eventually --
21 MR. LOCRICCHIO: No, the plan is to
22 keep it leased.
23 MEMBER WROBEL: A leased unit?
24 MR. LOCRICCHIO: Absolutely.
1 MEMBER WROBEL: This request is for a
2 permanent sign then is what we're looking
3 at? Or is this for another temporary sign?
4 Because I don't really see it noted in the
5 application anywhere.
6 MR. LOCRICCHIO: I guess it would be
7 considered permanent because of the nature
8 of the project.
9 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Alan, do you
10 have anything to add to that?
11 MR. AMOLSCH: The lease signs are for
12 lease, rental or for sale. It's just the
13 size difference. It's only about six square
14 feet, and five feet high for residential
16 MEMBER WROBEL: Right now I am
17 hesitant in allowing a larger sign there
18 considering this could be here for a long
19 time. If it was a short-term sign or
20 something, I could live with it. It's kind
21 of big for that road down there.
22 I understand your point, people see
23 it, but there are other methods to get the
24 word out especially in this type of a
1 product. This isn't something that you
2 drive by and you -- you know the business.
3 MR. LOCRICCHIO: If it were to be a
4 temporary sign possibility, what length of
5 time would a temporary sign we would be able
6 to do?
7 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Well, let's see
8 (unintelligible). That's a road that's
9 definitely open to the Board to discuss a
10 time frame that we would allow this.
11 Member Wrobel?
12 MEMBER WROBEL: Just based upon that I
13 am kind of hesitant in allowing a larger
14 sign there. But I'm not a hundred percent
15 sold on that. So, I could be convinced.
16 But off the top of my head I would say it's
17 kind of too big. Thank you.
18 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Thank you,
19 Member Wrobel.
20 Member Shroyer?
21 MEMBER SHROYER: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
22 First of all, can you put a copy of the sign
23 on the overhead so our audience can see?
24 MR. LOCRICCHIO: I think this will
1 carry over.
2 MEMBER SHROYER: Dim the light so
3 everybody can see it.
4 MR. LOCRICCHIO: Just hit the power
5 button here?
6 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: You are fine.
7 You were before you hit the power button.
8 MEMBER SHROYER: Thank you. I viewed
9 this last month and so I am trying to make
10 sure I understand the signage. Is this the
11 complex, this sign is right adjacent to an
12 entryway sign?
13 MR. LOCRICCHIO: Yes.
14 MEMBER SHROYER: To the north of it,
16 MR. LOCRICCHIO: That's correct.
17 MEMBER SHROYER: How big is that sign?
18 Four by five?
19 MR. LOCRICCHIO: That's a ground
20 monument sign. I don't know the size of it.
21 I would say it's probably -- Alan, would you
22 guess it's probably about eight feet long?
23 MR. AMOLSCH: It's probably about 24
24 square feet. It's out common entryway sign
2 MEMBER SHROYER: I see that the
3 temporary sign was initially approved in
4 2005. So we have had a sign up there for a
5 few years.
6 Also, I note that this appeal is based
7 on notice of violation or citation issuance.
8 So, I assume that's because you put up the
9 larger sign?
10 MR. LOCRICCHIO: Right. This was a
11 permitted sign and I guess it went beyond
12 the allotted time, is that what is was?
13 MR. AMOLSCH: Yes, the original sign
14 was a construction identification sign.
15 Much smaller than we allow.
16 MEMBER SHROYER: Thank you. I am
17 hesitant as well. I agree with Member
18 Wrobel. Quite often for new establishments
19 I am in favor of temporary signage. Even
20 ones that perhaps exceeds the maximum
21 because I know it's only going to be up
22 there for 18 months or so. If we're looking
23 at making something more permanent because
24 it's always for lease type activity, I would
1 be more in favor of, first of all, a smaller
2 sign and/or only one sign on the property.
3 I can't see having one large vertical
4 sign and one horizontal sign practically
5 side by side at the same property. So, I
6 would probably be more open to some type of
7 addition to the monument sign saying open
8 for lease or rental or something. I'm not
9 sure what, but at this point I'm not in
10 favor of what is currently proposed. Thank
12 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Thank you,
13 Member Shroyer.
14 Member Bauer?
15 MEMBER BAUER: I go by this place two
16 or three times a day. With the other sign
17 that's there, the ground sign, there is no
18 need for these other signs. He could have a
19 smaller one for leasing.
20 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Thank you,
21 Member Bauer.
22 Member Ibe?
23 MEMBER IBE: Sir, would you be, say,
24 amenable to something that is temporary?
1 How long do you think you might need such a
2 sign? In this touch economic time if
3 (unintelligible) is the motive, if that
4 would help to drive the marketing aspect,
5 what do you see as a temporary sign that you
6 can tell this Board?
7 MR. LOCRICCHIO: Well, ideally I would
8 love to have this through the key activity
9 times and selling times. For us there is a
10 couple of windows of opportunity. Typically
11 these corporate users as I said are our core
12 customers. They come over twice a year
13 under these contractual arrangements.
14 Typically in April and in August. So, you
15 know, that would be our key marketing time.
16 You know, as an alternative as Mr.
17 Shroyer said, you know, perhaps we could, if
18 the Board would consider it, is some sort of
19 amendment or addition or whatever to the
20 ground sign that gave us the opportunity to
21 say for lease on it. We just have the
22 Trillium sign there and there is really no
23 way to identify it other than it looks like
24 a condominium project for sale.
1 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Thank you,
2 Member Ibe.
3 MEMBER IBE: Thank you.
4 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Any other Board
5 Member comments? It looks like we have an
6 array of possibilities in front of us. I'll
7 go ahead and make
8 a few comments.
9 Let's remember that if we were talking
10 about some type of amendment or change to
11 the subdivision sign we would have to
12 renotice anything like that. So that has
13 got to be a completely separate process.
14 Alan, I understand this is the same
15 sign that was allowed under construction and
16 is this the sign that was used at that prior
17 time? Or is this a brand new sign and also
18 a different new ordinance?
19 MR. AMOLSCH: This was a brand new
20 sign. The original sign was like I said,
21 four by four, 16 square feet. This was a
22 new sign that was put up. That sign, the
23 construction was valid under the old
24 ordinance or at least until the first
1 certificate of occupancy or last certificate
2 of occupancy under the new ordinance as the
3 first certificate of occupancy. So, we try
4 to catch these as the projects go along and
5 are finished and then we send them notices.
6 In the meantime they changed the sign into
8 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Where are you at
9 right now as far as leasing these units?
10 MR. LOCRICCHIO: We currently have six
11 units vacant.
12 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Out of how many?
13 MR. LOCRICCHIO: Thirty-four.
14 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: One thing I did
15 notice is the bright red mark obviously.
16 Any approval I don't think I can support
17 with the now leasing bright red sign. I
18 don't think it -- it doesn't do much for the
19 aesthetics there. I think that the rest of
20 the sign looks in place, but I think that
21 takes it above and beyond what is necessary.
22 With that said, I could see my
23 personal opinion is to allow through the
24 August time frame, but at that time I would
1 expect the sign to come into compliance or
2 through September to allow for the window of
3 opportunity as the Petitioner had discussed.
4 That's my take.
5 VICE-CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: I agree.
6 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Board Members?
7 VICE-CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: I think
8 it's a great solution and we would leave it
9 be for the current year and revisit the
10 issue. I am not in favor of a permanent
11 sign. I don't know how many corporate
12 executives pick up a place to leave by
13 driving by. I am not really convinced about
14 that at all to be quite honest, but most of
15 the corporate leasing is done through rental
16 agency rather than coming themselves and
17 looking for a place in Novi on Nine Mile
19 But, seeing the way they are at the
20 moment I would be quite inclined to let them
21 ride until the end of this year and revisit
22 the issue depending upon the economic
23 situation in the country. Thank you.
24 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Member Shroyer?
1 MEMBER SHROYER: I too would be in
2 support of something on a very temporary
3 basis through summer, maybe into one month
4 into the fall or whatever because the
5 Applicant can always come back and request a
6 new variance for the permanent sign that's
7 there to enlarge it or to make something, to
8 add the verbiage that would say, now leasing
9 or whatever. Not that we are indicating
10 that that is what you should do or that even
11 that it would be approved if you did. We
12 can't go that route tonight. We are only
13 discussing this sign. But it would give him
14 an opportunity or give the organization an
15 opportunity to lease it through the summer
16 and then be revisited after that if the
17 Applicant so chooses.
18 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Does Member
19 Shroyer care to make a motion to that
20 affect? I think you put it so eloquently.
21 MEMBER SHROYER: I was prepared to
22 make a motion to deny. I suppose I can try
23 to ad lib it here.
24 In case number: 08-002 filed by
1 Joseph Locricchio of Trillium Village of
2 Novi located north of Nine Mile and Haggerty
3 or at Haggerty, to approve the sign as
4 submitted with the change of the bright red
5 now leasing portion to a more subdued color.
6 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: I think we
7 should just take it off.
8 MEMBER SHROYER: With the removal of
9 now leasing portion of the sign. This
10 temporary sign is permitted to extend
11 through the end of September. And the
12 reasons are to allow for additional time to
13 rent the facilities based on the economic
14 considerations of the foregoing activities
15 until 2008, September of 2008.
16 And may I ask the attorney if I am
17 missing anything important that we need to
19 MS. KUDLA: No, you haven't missed
20 anything that's needed.
21 MEMBER SHROYER: Thank you.
22 VICE-CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Second.
23 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: So, we do have a
24 motion to approve the sign with the removal
1 of the now leasing verbiage through
2 September 30th, 2008, on the table.
3 Are there any comments? Seeing none,
4 Ms. Working, would you please call the roll.
5 MS. WORKING: Member Shroyer?
6 MEMBER SHROYER: Yes.
7 MS. WORKING: Member Sanghvi?
8 VICE-CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Yes.
9 MS. WORKING: Chairman Fischer?
10 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Aye.
11 MS. WORKING: Member Ibe?
12 MEMBER IBE: Present.
13 MS. WORKING: Member Bauer?
14 MEMBER BAUER: No.
15 MS. WORKING: Member Wrobel?
16 MEMBER WROBEL: Yes.
17 MS. WORKING: Point of clarification.
18 Member Ibe, that was a yes to approve?
19 MEMBER IBE: If you interpret it that
20 way, yes. (Unintelligible). You can take it
21 for a yes.
22 MS. WORKING: Thank you.
23 Motion to approve the temporary sign
24 passes 5-1.
1 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: You have through
2 September 30th. Best of luck to you guys.
3 MR. LOCRICCHIO: Thank you very much.
4 We appreciate it.
6 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Go ahead and
7 move to case number four on the agenda which
8 is case number: 08-004 filed by Michael
9 Eldon of Premier Finish for 40390 Guilford
11 Is the Petitioner here?
12 MR. ELDON: Yes.
13 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: If you could
14 step up to the podium. The Petitioner is
15 requesting a 3.1 foot rear yard setback
16 variance and one percent total lot coverage
17 variance for the construction of a 252
18 square foot proposed addition to an existing
19 home located at said address.
20 The property is zoned R-1 and is
21 located east of Meadowbrook Road and south
22 of 10 Mile Road.
23 If you can -- are you an attorney,
1 MR. ELDON: No. If you can raise your
2 hand and be sworn in by our Vice-Chair.
3 VICE-CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Do you
4 swear or affirm to tell truth in case
5 number: 08-004?
6 MR. ELDON: I do.
7 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: If you can go
8 ahead and state your name and address and
10 MR. ELDON: My name is Michael Douglas
11 Eldon, 5855 Wyndham (ph) Lane, that's in
12 Brighton, Michigan, 48116.
13 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Go ahead and
14 proceed with your case.
15 MR. ELDON: Currently the rear
16 projection of the home it is on a slab was
17 originally designed as a family room. And
18 the homeowners are currently using it as a
19 dining room because of the size of the house
20 and they like to entertain, so they wanted
21 to extend that same extension to the rear to
22 gain a new family room so they would have
23 equal or -- excuse me, family and a dining
24 room. And the projection we were proposing
1 is 12 feet. It extends beyond the existing
2 build or the existing extension.
3 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Do you have a
4 plan of the drawing?
5 MR. ELDON: I have a plan, yes.
6 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Could you put it
7 up on the overhead for us as well? It
8 magically turns on.
9 MEMBER SHROYER: Would it be easier to
10 use one of our copies?
11 MR. ELDON: Well, the plot plan you
12 have got. Is that okay?
13 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Yes.
14 MR. ELDON: I got one of those. If
15 it's just a plot plan, yeah, I'm sorry.
16 MEMBER SHROYER: It's just so the
17 audience at home and here can see what
18 everybody is talking about.
19 MR. ELDON: Sorry. That's the
20 existing. The proposed is the shaded area
21 above. That's the extension.
22 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: I appreciate
23 that. Any other comments, sir?
24 MR. ELDON: No, no.
1 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: All right. At
2 this time I will let the Board know that in
3 this case there were 42 notices mailed with
4 zero approvals and zero objections.
5 Is there anyone in the audience that
6 wishes to make a comment on this case?
7 Seeing none, I'll turn it over to the City.
8 MR. FOX: Just through the Chair for
9 clarification. The proposed addition is
10 encroaching in the rear yard setback
11 obviously 3.1 feet as stated in the variance
12 request. It does not encroach in either one
13 of the side yard setbacks. It should not
14 affect any of the overall drainage patterns
15 based on my research on that.
16 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Just a point of
17 information too. I notice that this is
18 Fairfield Farms Subdivision. Is this
19 Village Oaks?
20 VICE-CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: It's an old
22 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Is it the old
23 name? Okay. Any other comments from the
24 City? Seeing none, I'll turn it over to the
1 Board for discussion.
2 Member Sanghvi?
3 VICE-CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: This is a
4 very minimal request and really not likely
5 to affect anything in the neighborhood and I
6 have no problem in supporting his request.
7 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Thank you,
8 Member Sanghvi.
9 Member Shroyer?
10 MEMBER SHROYER: With no objections
11 from any of the neighbors I have no
12 objections to the request as proposed.
13 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Member Bauer?
14 MEMBER BAUER: I have no objections to
15 it. It's minimal what he is asking for.
16 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Thank you,
17 Member Bauer.
18 Member Wrobel?
19 MEMBER WROBEL: I have no objections
20 either as long as the addition is in keeping
21 with the looks of the rest of the home.
22 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: I think we can
23 go ahead and make that as part of the
24 motion. I would recommend that.
1 Does anyone care to make any other
2 comments or make a motion?
3 Member Sanghvi?
4 VICE-CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Okay, I'll
5 make a motion. In case number: 08-044
6 filed by Michael Eldon that we grant the
7 request of the Applicant for the minimal
8 variance he needs for the purposes that he
9 stated in his application with the provision
10 that architectural integrity of the entire
11 household in the neighborhood would be
12 maintained through the new addition.
13 MEMBER BAUER: Second.
14 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Did you want to
15 put anything about keeping the facade within
16 the context of what's currently there or did
17 you already say that?
18 MEMBER BAUER: It's covered.
19 VICE-CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Yes.
20 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: It's my first
21 month back in this chair. I forget these
22 things, Member Sanghvi, so please forgive
24 VICE-CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Onward.
1 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: There is a
2 motion and second on the table. Are there
3 any other comments?
4 Seeing one, Ms. Working, would you
5 please call the roll.
6 MS. WORKING: Would you verify who
7 seconded, please?
8 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Member Bauer.
9 MS. WORKING: Member Bauer. Thank
11 Member Sanghvi?
12 VICE-CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Yes.
13 MS. WORKING: Member Bauer?
14 MEMBER BAUER: Yes.
15 MS. WORKING: Member Ibe?
16 MEMBER IBE: Yes.
17 MS. WORKING: Chairman Fischer?
18 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Aye.
19 MS. WORKING: Member Shroyer?
20 MEMBER SHROYER: Yes.
21 MS. WORKING: Member Wrobel?
22 MEMBER WROBEL: Yes.
23 MS. WORKING: Motion to grant the
24 request passes 6-0.
1 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Your request has
2 been granted. Thank you and good luck.
4 At this point I would like to
5 call case number: 08-005 filed by Haley Law
6 Firm, PLC, for AT&T for 42400 Arena Drive.
7 Is the Applicant present? If you can
8 come up to the podium. The Applicant is
9 requesting a variance from the requirement
10 of a face brick exterior shelter building on
11 all sides with gable roof for two proposed
12 wireless outdoor equipment cabinets to be
13 located at said address.
14 The property is zoned I-1 and is
15 located east of Novi Road and south of Ten
17 Are you an attorney?
18 MR. HALEY: Yes, I am.
19 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: You are? All
21 MEMBER WROBEL: Mr. Chair?
22 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Mr. Wrobel?
23 MEMBER WROBEL: I currently work for
24 AT&T as a manager. I'm not involved with
1 this project directly. After consulting
2 with the City Attorney I will leave it up to
3 you gentleman whether I should hear this
4 case or not.
5 MEMBER BAUER: I have no problem with
7 VICE-CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: I have no
9 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Can you act
11 MEMBER WROBEL: I can act impartially.
12 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: I'm fine with
13 keeping him on the Board.
14 MEMBER WROBEL: Thank you.
15 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Why don't you go
16 ahead and raise -- you don't have to be
17 sworn in, so why don't you go ahead and
18 proceed with your case.
19 MR. HALEY: Thank you. Good evening,
20 this is the monopole tower behind the ice
21 arena which is currently I believe five
22 carriers on the location.
23 The only existing shelter there is the
24 Nextel shelter. There is some pictures in
1 the submittal that show the Nextel shelter
2 in the property in relation to the fencing,
3 the landscaping. This is not a new
4 installation. AT&T came before the city to
5 add equipment cabinets that were in the
6 original approval. It was approved for
7 twelve outdoor cabinets on the grid on a
8 steel platform.
9 Historically Tim Schmidt had
10 interpreted back when he was here the
11 ordinances that said that if you do a
12 shelter it's got to be this way. It was
13 never actually a requirement. Planning
14 Department is now interpreting it's
15 requiring a shelter, there may be some kind
16 of changes, so we're asking for a variance
17 for that because we're adding two cabinets
18 to the existing outdoor platform. We're not
19 expending the platform.
20 You granted a variance to Metro PCS,
21 four out of the five carriers that are there
22 had outdoor cabinets. Obviously it's very
23 remote. I have an areal, if you would like
24 to me to show that of how it sits in
1 relation to the other properties.
2 And actually, the landscaping which
3 has been placed around there originally has
4 matured and it provides a very effective
5 screening for any of the properties
6 surrounding it. That picture is included in
7 your packet.
8 I'll give you an example. The most
9 visible thing on the property is really the
10 shelter. It sits up higher. That shows it
11 very clearly. But over here is the shelter
12 and the cabinets are actually hidden back
13 behind all these trees. So if the purpose
14 of the ordinance was for aesthetics, the
15 trees already do that. And the fact that
16 it's already existing installation, it would
17 be unnecessarily burdensome to require them
18 to somehow take the site down. They would
19 have to remove the existing grid. Remove
20 all their cabinets. Come into the building
21 property and put a shelter in, take the side
22 off there. I don't think that was
23 necessarily the purpose of the ordinance
24 when this was originally approved. Thank
2 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Thank you, sir.
3 I will let the Board Members know that
4 in this case there were 18 notices mailed
5 with zero approvals and zero objections.
6 Is there anyone in the audience that
7 wishes to make a comment only this case?
8 Seeing none, is there anyone from the City
9 that wishes to comment?
10 I don't have any direct comment, but
11 we do have a member of the Planning
12 Department here if you have any questions
13 for them.
14 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Okay. At this
15 point I'll open it up to the Board.
16 Member Wrobel?
17 MEMBER WROBEL: What type of equipment
18 is going to be in these cabinets? Are these
19 light span units?
20 MR. HALEY: They are UMTS cabinets.
21 MEMBER WROBEL: And the height of the
23 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Mr. Wrobel, can
24 you maybe clarify for the rest of the Board
1 Members what --
2 MEMBER WROBEL: Light span is fiber
3 optic equipment which they generally use to
4 service outside equipment.
5 MR. HALEY: These are part of what
6 they call the UMTS upgrade project. What it
7 really is is to provide better data
8 capability to the surrounding area, not just
9 voice. You got voice through most of the
10 system. This is designed to very much
11 enhance the data flow and to service the
12 township residents and the people in that
14 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Thank you for
15 that clarification. Sorry to interrupt.
16 MEMBER WROBEL: The height of the
18 MR. HALEY: They are very consistent
19 with the others. Five feet to six feet.
20 MEMBER WROBEL: Looking at the
21 pictures do we know how tall right now the
22 landscaping around there is? Is it
23 sufficiently -- it's kind of hard to tell
24 from that picture.
1 MR. HALEY: Let me pass around a
2 picture that you can see. The Nextel
3 shelter I would guess is probably 10 feet at
4 the peak.
5 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: If you could
6 repeat that comment into the microphone for
8 MR. HALEY: I would estimate that the
9 Nextel shelter is probably at least 10 to 12
10 feet at the peak and the trees are pretty
11 much 10 to 11 feet.
12 MEMBER WROBEL: This is a typical set
13 up. I have seen a lot of this. I have no
14 problems with this personally. Thank you.
15 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Member
17 VICE-CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: If Mr.
18 Wrobel who knows all the technicality has no
19 problem, I have no problem either.
20 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: I would tend to
21 agree that given the landscaping around the
22 site, just basically going ahead and taking
23 care of the intent of the ordinance I don't
24 think as the Petitioner stated the intent
1 was to cause this type of undue burden on
2 the Petitioner when the landscaping will
3 take care of the intent. So I am inclined
4 to support as well.
5 Member Shroyer?
6 MEMBER SHROYER: Thank you. If
7 anybody did read the minutes from March 7th,
8 you will notice that I was quite involved
9 with this case and ended up supporting
10 something prior to, so I don't have an issue
11 with that.
12 But I would like to ask the attorney
13 if she had an opportunity to review the
14 letter from Novi Ten Associates?
15 MS. KUDLA: We did.
16 MEMBER SHROYER: Is there anything
17 there that we need to be cognizant about in
18 making a motion or in reviewing this case
19 regarding this?
20 MS. KUDLA: No. We reviewed the
21 restrictions. We reviewed the ownership of
22 the property which is in the city. I have
23 gotten information that the lessor had
24 approved the Applicant's (unintelligible)
1 proposal. So, no, there is nothing left I
2 don't believe to add.
3 MEMBER SHROYER: I just wanted to make
4 sure. With that I have no problem with this
5 as well. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
6 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Thank you,
7 Member Shroyer.
8 Any other Board Members? Sir, if you
9 want the picture back. Thank you for that.
10 The Board is working very hard
11 thinking today. I am very impressed with
12 you guys.
13 MEMBER SHROYER: You guys want to make
14 me ad lib another one?
15 MEMBER WROBEL: You've got experience.
16 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: It's a
17 compliment, Member Shroyer. I will give you
18 the floor.
19 MEMBER SHROYER: Thank you. In case
20 number 08-005 filed by Haley Law Firm, PLC,
21 for AT&T at 42400 Arena Drive, I move that
22 we approve the request for the variance as
23 submitted given the facts that were
24 presented at this evening's case. That the
1 heights and sizes of the proposed units do
2 not exceed anything that's currently
3 existing there. That is a correct
4 statement, I believe. And that the units
5 are adequately shielded by the evergreens
6 that surround the activity thus causing no
7 aesthetic imperfections.
8 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: And that's
9 within the intent of the ordinance?
10 MEMBER SHROYER: Yes, it is.
11 MEMBER BAUER: Second it.
12 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: There is a
13 motion and a second on the table. Are there
14 any other comments? Seeing none, Ms.
15 Working, would you please call the roll.
16 MS. WORKING: Member Bauer seconded?
17 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Yes, ma'am.
18 MS. WORKING: Member Shroyer?
19 MEMBER SHROYER: Yes.
20 MS. WORKING: Member Bauer?
21 MEMBER BAUER: Yes.
22 MS. WORKING: Member Wrobel?
23 MEMBER WROBEL: Yes.
24 MS. WORKING: Member Sanghvi?
1 VICE-CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Yes.
2 MS. WORKING: Member Ibe?
3 MEMBER IBE: Yes.
4 MS. WORKING: Chairman Fischer?
5 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Aye.
6 MS. WORKING: Motion to approve passes
8 MR. HALEY: Thank you very much.
9 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: You have been
10 approved. Best of luck.
12 At this time we'll call case number:
13 08-006 filed by David Giltner of Signature
14 Associates for 41280 Bridge Street. Is the
15 Petitioner here today? Come up to the
16 podium for us.
17 The Petitioner is requesting one 32
18 square foot sign area variance for the
19 placement of a 48 square foot real estate
20 leasing sign to be placed on said property.
21 The property is currently zoned I-1 and is
22 located east of Meadowbrook Road and south
23 of I-96.
24 Are you an attorney, sir?
1 MR. GILTNER: No, I'm not.
2 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: If you can raise
3 your hand and be sworn in by our Vice-Chair.
4 VICE-CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Do you
5 swear or affirm that you will tell the truth
6 in case number: 08-006?
7 MR. GILTNER: I'm sorry, what was the
9 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Do you swear to
10 tell the truth in this case?
11 MR. GILTNER: I do.
12 VICE-CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you.
13 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Please go ahead
14 and state your name and address and proceed.
15 MR. GILTNER: David Giltner, 41290
16 Wolfe Pass, Novi, Michigan, 48377. I am
17 here regarding signage on behalf my firm,
18 Signature Associates, for a property at
19 41280 Bridge Street which is in the
20 Meadowbrook Corporate Park at Meadowbrook
21 Road and I-96.
22 The facility commonly referred to as
23 the M Cat facility. And the reason for the
24 Zoning Board of appeals here is the property
1 is, the park itself is very infrequently
2 traffic with the exception of the people
3 that are in the park itself. This
4 particular facility happens to be a
5 destination. It's really almost impossible
6 to drive by this facility without being lost
7 or traveling straight to this particular
8 building. The property is visible to the
9 ramp at I-275 and I-96 and my request is to
10 put signage that is actually visible to the
12 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Thank you, sir.
13 Is there anyone -- I will let the Board know
14 at this time there were 16 notices mailed
15 with zero approvals and zero objections.
16 Is there anyone in the audience that
17 wishes to make a comment on this case?
18 Seeing none, I'll turn it over to the city
19 for any comments?
20 MR. AMOLSCH: No comment.
21 MS. KUDLA: No.
22 MR. FOX: No comment.
23 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Board Members?
24 Member Ibe?
1 MEMBER IBE: Thank you. Sir, do you
2 have any sign currently on this property?
3 MR. GILTNER: Yes.
4 MEMBER IBE: What is the size of the
5 sign that you have there?
6 MR. GILTNER: Sixteen square feet.
7 MEMBER IBE: What is the need for the
8 variance here that you are requesting?
9 MR. GILTNER: The building is, again,
10 only visible to the freeway and is several
11 hundred feet from the freeway. The green
12 built outside the front door of the building
13 is probably only about 15 feet. There is a
14 large paved area between the green belt and
15 the freeway and the sign is not currently
17 MEMBER IBE: Is this, what other --
18 strike that. What other measures of
19 marketing are you using other than this
21 MR. GILTNER: Could you clarify the
22 question, please?
23 MEMBER IBE: Is there any other
24 marketing tool that you are using other than
1 the sign that you have out?
2 MR. GILTNER: Yes, we have a catalog
3 to build the property that we sent out. We
4 use our web base marketing. My e-mail
5 marketing facility. I have been working in
6 the community for 14 years so we do have
7 other means that utilize the market.
8 However, with respect to this particular
9 building, this building's exposure to the
10 freeway, I feel any other marketing other
11 than the signage would be a detriment to
12 this particular building given its proximity
13 to this freeway.
14 MEMBER IBE: In terms of occupancy of
15 this particular space what do you have right
16 now in its place?
17 MR. GILTNER: M Cat does currently
18 occupy the building and I believe they are
19 out within the next two or three weeks.
20 MEMBER IBE: Are they the only party
21 in that space?
22 MR. GILTNER: Yes, it's a freestanding
24 MEMBER IBE: You don't have any
1 potential parties right now that are
2 interested in this place?
3 MR. GILTNER: I have shown the
4 property and there is nominal interest right
6 MEMBER IBE: Now, the party that
7 showed interest, how did they find out about
8 this particular place?
9 MR. GILTNER: I'm they're exclusive
10 buyer's representative and so given my
11 knowledge of the building and my knowledge
12 of the buyer's needs that's how we came to
14 MEMBER IBE: Also, this is my final
15 question, sir. Assuming that you get
16 someone to buy this property, is this
17 supposed to be a permanent sign or is this
18 going to come down?
19 MR. GILTNER: It will come down.
20 Ideally I would lease the building in the
21 next 60 days and take the sign down
22 immediately after we got a deal.
23 MEMBER IBE: Very good. Thank you.
24 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Thank you,
1 Member Ibe.
2 If could you take a minute and go
3 ahead and put the sign up on the overhead
4 for us too.
5 MR. GILTNER: I'm without visual aid.
6 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: That's fine. If
7 one of our Board Members could.
8 Member Wrobel, comments from you?
9 MEMBER WROBEL: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
10 Is this sign going to be on the building or
11 is it going to be freestanding?
12 MR. GILTNER: It will not be on the
13 building. It will be on the property
15 MEMBER WROBEL: How close to the
16 building or is it going to be right on the
17 lot line where it comes along the I-275
19 MR. GILTNER: You know, I am really
20 not qualified to be able to answer that.
21 That's probably a question for our marketing
22 director or our sign people. My best guess
23 is that it will be on the property line
24 closer to the freeway.
1 MEMBER WROBEL: Mr. Amolsch, what was
2 the size of the sign that we recently
3 approved for Novi Expo Center do you recall
5 MR. AMOLSCH: We can find out.
6 VICE-CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Sixty-eight
7 square feet.
8 MEMBER WROBEL: So this one is
9 substantially smaller, a smaller building?
10 MEMBER SHROYER: It was on the
11 building, though.
12 MEMBER BAUER: It was on the building.
13 It was smaller than this.
14 MEMBER WROBEL: I have no issue with
15 this sign if it is placed for a specified
16 period of time. I know what the market is
17 like right now, it's bad. But I don't want
18 it sitting, God forbid you don't lease the
19 building, I hate to see it sitting there for
20 five years also. It's something that needs
21 to be addressed from time to time.
22 So, I can support it with that
23 stipulation. Thank you.
24 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Any suggestion
1 to the Board of a time frame you would be
2 willing to accept, Member Wrobel?
3 MEMBER WROBEL: I could say two years
4 or less.
5 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Thank you.
6 Member Shroyer?
7 MEMBER SHROYER: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
8 A couple of questions. The first one if I
9 remember correctly there is no signage off
10 Bridge Street; is that correct?
11 MR. GILTNER: Correct.
12 MEMBER SHROYER: So, this would be the
13 only signage that you would have for that
14 building which was mentioned earlier?
15 MR. GILTNER: Correct.
16 MEMBER SHROYER: Why was the notice of
17 violation or citation issued?
18 MR. GILTNER: I believe there was a
19 sign predating. I'm new to the assignment,
20 I believe there was a sign on Meadowbrook
21 Road that the city had us remove.
22 MEMBER SHROYER: Do you know, Mr.
24 MR. AMOLSCH: That's correct. They
1 had a sign on Meadowbrook Road and they had
2 a wall sign on the building also which we do
3 not allow.
4 MEMBER SHROYER: Okay. And that's
5 been removed now?
6 MR. AMOLSCH: Yes.
7 MEMBER SHROYER: Normally when the
8 application is filled out and it says the
9 appeal is based on the following grounds and
10 it states, require larger sign, we look for
11 a little more information than that when we
12 are trying to do this.
13 I don't have a problem either with
14 granting temporary. I don't have a problem
15 with the size of the sign being off the
16 interstate. I would like to see the
17 verbiage added to whoever makes the motion
18 that whatever the given time frame is or to
19 be removed within 30 days after the property
20 is leased or some other date, time frame,
21 but I don't want to see it become an
22 advertising sign as opposed to a for rent
23 type sign.
24 That's all I have, Mr. Chair.
1 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Thank you,
2 Member Shroyer.
3 Anything from the other Board Members?
4 MEMBER SANGHVI: I have no problem
5 supporting this application for a period of
6 two years. And if I may I will go ahead and
7 make a motion that in case number: 08-006
8 filed by David Giltner of Signature
9 Association, 41280 Bridge Street, that we
10 grant the Petitioner's request for the
11 building sign for a period of two years with
12 the understanding that the sign will come
13 down when the property is leased. Thank
15 MEMBER WROBEL: Second.
16 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Might want we
17 add some finding of facts such as the unique
18 layout of the property and the high speeds
19 of the traffic?
20 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: It is
21 uniquely out of the commercial property.
22 The location is difficult to advertise and
23 the hardship is appreciated.
24 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Thank you, sir.
1 Any other comments? There is a motion
2 and a second from Member Wrobel.
3 No other comments, Ms. Working, would
4 you please call the roll.
5 MS. WORKING: Member Sanghvi?
6 VICE-CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Yes.
7 MS. WORKING: Member Wrobel?
8 MEMBER WROBEL: Yes.
9 MS. WORKING: Member Shroyer?
10 MEMBER SHROYER: Yes.
11 MS. WORKING: Member Bauer?
12 MEMBER BAUER: Yes.
13 MS. WORKING: Chairman Fischer?
14 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Aye.
15 MS. WORKING: Member Ibe?
16 MEMBER IBE: Yes.
17 MS. WORKING: Motion passes 6-0.
18 MR. GILTNER: Thank you.
19 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Thank you. Best
20 of luck. Hopefully it will get leased and
21 it will be down in a month.
22 MR. GILTNER: I hope so.
24 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: At this time
1 I'll swing back to the first case on the
2 agenda regarding Paradise Park. Is the
3 Petitioner here today? Seeing, no, were you
4 here to comment on a certain case? I still
5 see some people in the audience. Just
7 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Just observing.
8 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Perfect. I just
9 wanted to make sure that if there were
10 people in the audience who wanted to comment
11 on that case I was trying to see if the
12 attorney would allow that. But you are just
13 observing? Welcome to the Zoning Board of
14 Appeals. Seeing no other cases
15 before the Board, we'll move to the other
17 Ms. Working?
18 MS. WORKING: Members of the Board, at
19 this time I would like to present the
20 community development director, Mr. -- oh,
21 he's gone. I apologize. It was with great
22 pleasure that I would like to introduce to
23 you our new building official, Charles
1 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Thank you, Ms.
2 Working. I had the opportunity -- if you
3 want to come to the podium. I had the
4 opportunity to meet Charles before the
5 meeting and had a brief little session. I
6 don't remember all of the wonderful things
7 Mr. Rumple said other than the fact that he
8 does have a master's from Michigan which
9 upset me a little bit.
11 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Exactly. But I
12 did hear a lot of great things and if Mr.
13 Rumple would like to reintroduce. My
14 introduction was pretty bad.
15 MR. RUMPLE: Timing is everything. I
16 apologize for that. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
17 Members of the Board, I would like to
18 take the opportunity to do what I think has
19 been done and that is introduce our new
20 building official, Mr. Charles Boulard.
22 Before I do that, as you know the
23 Community Development Department has been
24 going through some changes over the last
1 year and a half. I have been on board ten
2 months now and as you know we have recently
3 gone through a change over in building
4 officials. We in the Community Development
5 Department, Planning, Building, Ordinance
6 Enforcement, we support several boards and
7 commissions, the Zoning Board of Appeals is
8 just one of them. Charles is going to be
9 assigned managerial oversight of the Zoning
10 Board of Appeals and will be attending these
11 meetings on a regular basis.
12 Charles comes to us from the city of
13 Ypsilanti. He was a building official. He
14 was there for approximately six years.
15 Prior to that he worked as a planned
16 reviewer for the City of Ann Arbor for
17 approximately five years. Prior to that he
18 was a licensed architect in private
19 practice. He comes to use with nearly 20
20 years of experience. He has a master's
21 degree from the University of Michigan.
22 Although I promised ahead of time we weren't
23 going to hold that against him. He has got
24 a master's degree from the University of
1 Michigan in architecture.
2 He comes highly qualified and highly
3 experienced. And we are very excited to
4 have him as part of our team and just
5 thought we would take a few minutes to
6 introduce him tonight. There will be
7 opportunities for us to speak more. I did
8 get a chance to meet with the chair before
9 tonight's meeting and this was all in the
10 effort of offering continued support to this
11 Board as we move forward with the changes in
12 the department and anything we can do, you
13 know where to find us and we appreciate
15 Without further ado here is Charles.
16 MR. BOULARD: Thank you. I haven't
17 had a chance to be introduced today
18 everyone, I am looking forward to it. I
19 will keep things very brief. I obviously
20 won't make any overtures about Michigan
21 State, especially with the state of the
22 basketball team.
23 But if there is anything that I or any
24 of us can do, please let us know. We're
1 here to support. Thank you.
2 MEMBER BAUER: Welcome aboard.
3 MR. BOULARD: Thank you.
4 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Your background
5 sounds very extensive. It sounds like you
6 have a wealth of knowledge and a resource
7 that I look forward to tapping into. So on
8 behalf of the Board welcome aboard. It's a
9 great fresh face to see.
10 Moving along. Ms. Working, again.
11 MS. WORKING: Members of the Board,
12 last meeting you had a discussion about the
13 proposed rules of procedure document that
14 has yet to be adopted as amended. You made
15 a request to book a meeting to be able to
16 further discuss this document. That request
17 has been honored. You will be meeting on
18 March 25th in the Mayor's conference room.
19 It will be a public meeting. It will be a
20 public meeting and I don't know if the Chair
21 would like to add to that in any way.
22 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: I believe, Ms.
23 Working, we wrote everybody and asked for a
24 date we could all attend and that seems to
1 be the only one I think that fit. So, I
2 look forward to going through the rules and
3 scrubbing them down with everybody. Is
4 there a time that we're planning on meeting?
5 MS. WORKING: 7 p.m.
6 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: 7 p.m., okay. Is
7 there any questions regarding that?
8 MEMBER BAUER: (Unintelligible).
9 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Of course I will
10 be honored to bring dinner for you guys.
11 We do still have one case before us.
12 Can we go ahead and look at postponing that
14 VICE-CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Yes.
15 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Oftentimes when
16 a Petitioner doesn't show I would be in
17 favor of possible denial, but given the fact
18 that we did switch from our normal Tuesday
19 schedule I would be inclined to postpone.
20 So is there a motion on the table?
22 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Member Shroyer?
23 MEMBER SHROYER: May I ask, however,
24 has there been any movement with City
1 Council on that?
2 MS. WORKING: Through the Chair.
3 Members of the Board, in your file for this
4 evening there is a copy of the Planning
5 Commission's agenda for this Wednesday. The
6 sign ordinance amendment would be presented
7 to the Planning Commission who at that time
8 will make a decision whether to move it
9 forward for a public hearing. That would be
10 a few weeks ahead yet.
11 Once the Planning Commission looks at
12 it and moves on to the City Council it would
13 have two readings and hopefully be approved
14 from there. So, we're not looking at before
15 the April 8th meeting of having a decision
16 yet which is your next Zoning Board meeting.
17 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: From what I
18 understand there hasn't been much action on
19 it quite yet, but I think we'll have a
20 better indication at the next meeting so
21 this actually works out. I hope we will have
22 someone from the Building Department that
23 can speak to what's going on with it at that
1 MEMBER SHROYER: The reason I was
2 asking, Mr. Chair, is that perhaps we may
3 want to look at postponing it to the May
4 meeting since he wasn't here this evening to
5 give us any feedback and we are anticipating
6 action to be taken in the next six weeks,
7 perhaps we ought to postpone it to the May
9 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: I would say
10 let's postpone until April at this time
11 frame, but given these comments -- I'm
12 sorry, yes, April at this point, and then
13 working with the Petitioner and Robin they
14 can figure out if May would be more
15 acceptable. But at the same time I don't
16 want to pigeon hole the Petitioner into
17 going into May either. So, is that
18 acceptable to you, Mr. Shroyer?
19 MEMBER SHROYER: Yes.
20 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: There is a
21 motion and a second to postpone case number:
22 07-094 at this time to the April meeting
23 with the option.
24 VICE-CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: So moved.
1 MEMBER BAUER: Second.
2 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Can you please
3 call the roll, Ms. Working.
4 MS. WORKING: The motion maker,
6 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Member Sanghvi
7 made the motion originally and Member Bauer
8 seconded originally.
9 MS. WORKING: Member Sanghvi?
10 VICE-CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Yes.
11 MS. WORKING: Member Bauer?
12 MEMBER BAUER: Yes.
13 MS. WORKING: Member Wrobel?
14 MEMBER WROBEL: Yes.
15 MS. WORKING: Member Shroyer?
16 MEMBER SHROYER: Yes.
17 MS. WORKING: Chairman Fischer?
18 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Aye.
19 MS. WORKING: Member Ibe?
20 MEMBER IBE: Yes.
21 MS. WORKING: Motion to postpone
22 passes 6-0.
23 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: See no other
24 business before the Zoning Board I will
1 entertain a motion to adjourn.
2 VICE-CHAIRPERSON: So moved.
3 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: All in favor say
5 BOARD MEMBERS Aye.
6 CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: We're adjourned.
7 (The proceeding was concluded
8 at 8:09 p.m.)
C E R T I F I C A T E
I, Mona L. Talton, do hereby certify
that I have recorded stenographically the
proceedings had and testimony taken in the
above-entitled matter at the time and place
hereinbefore set forth, and I do further
certify that the foregoing transcript,
consisting of (61) typewritten pages, is a
true and correct transcript of my said
Mona L. Talton,
Certified Shorthand Reporter
March 14, 2008