| View Agenda for this meeting View Action Summary for this meeting REGULAR MEETING - ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS Proceedings had and testimony taken in the matters of the ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS, at City of Novi, 45175 West Ten Mile Road, Novi, Michigan, Tuesday, August 7, 2007. BOARD MEMBERS ALSO PRESENT: REPORTED BY: 1 Novi, Michigan 2 Tuesday, August 7, 2007 3 7:30 p.m. 4 - - - - - - 5 6 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Good evening, 7 everyone. This is the Tuesday, August 7th, 8 2007 meeting. Please bear with us, we are 9 forgetting to turn on our microphone. 10 That's the very first thing. 11 We have four members present out of a 12 seven member Board, plus one alternate. In 13 this instance we do have a quorum so we can 14 conduct a meeting. 15 However, at times, the Applicants prefer to 16 have a full board present. 17 What we will do is give you the 18 opportunity prior to each case of deciding 19 whether or not you want your case tabled to 20 the next meeting, or whether you want it 21 heard here this evening. 22 It has been advertised as a public 23 hearing, so we do have everybody having the 24 opportunity to present and discuss things
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1 this evening, but we don't want to put the 2 Applicants at a disadvantage by not having a 3 full Board present for that. 4 Basically what it means with four 5 members present is that everybody would have 6 to vote in favor of something for it to be 7 passed. One negative vote, it would be 8 denied. 9 I want to make sure that's correct, if 10 I could please check with our attorney. 11 MS. KUDLA: That's correct. 12 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: That is correct. 13 So, that's the way we are tonight. So, 14 probably right upfront, maybe those of you, 15 especially those who may be late in the 16 agenda the opportunity. Is there anyone 17 here that right now opts to request being 18 tabled until the next month's meeting? 19 MR. DEBRINCAT: I am first on the 20 agenda. 21 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Let's hold off 22 just a minute, because what I want to do is 23 officially open the meeting and then we will 24 ask for that again.
5 1 Let me -- we have to do several items. 2 And we will get to you. I just wanted to 3 see if there wasn't anybody, then we were 4 going to go ahead and move forward. Since 5 we have several people, there are a few 6 things we would like to do. 7 So, officially I will be calling the 8 meeting to order. 9 And at this time I will call the roll 10 for attendance, please. 11 MS. WORKING: Member Bauer? 12 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Absent excused. 13 MS. WORKING: Member Sanghvi? 14 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Absent excused. 15 MS. WORKING: Member Shroyer? 16 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Present. 17 MS. WORKING: Member Fischer? 18 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Present. 19 MS. WORKING: Member Canup? 20 Member Krieger? 21 MEMBER KRIEGER: Here. 22 MS. WORKING: Member Wrobel? 23 MEMBER WROBEL: Present. 24 MS. WORKING: We do have a quorum.
6 1 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you. As 2 stated, we do have a quorum, and this is an 3 official meeting and it is now in session. 4 At this time I would like our newest 5 member, Member Wrobel, I know I asked him 6 last month, but I am going to ask him again, 7 to lead us in the pledge of allegiance. 8 BOARD MEMBERS: I pledge allegiance to 9 the flag, of the United States of America 10 and to the Republic for which it stands, one 11 nation under God indivisible with liberty 12 and justice for all. 13 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: At this time, 14 then we would like to read the rules of 15 conduct for the meeting. Mr. Vice-Chair, if 16 would you do that for us, please. 17 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Thank you, 18 Mr. Chairman. The rules that are intact for 19 this meeting are as follows: 20 Make sure to turnoff all pagers and 21 cell phones during the meeting. The 22 Applicant and all representatives will be 23 asked to come forth, state their name and 24 address and be sworn in by our Secretary.
7 1 In the absence of the Secretary the Vice 2 Chair will swear in each Representative. 3 The Applicants and Representatives 4 will be allowed five minutes to address the 5 Board and present their case, and an 6 extension will be granted at the discretion 7 of the Chairperson. 8 Anyone in the audience who wishes to 9 address the Board regarding their case at 10 hand will be asked by the Chairperson to 11 raise their hand and be recognized. Once 12 recognized, the audience members addressing 13 the Board will be sworn in and given 14 three minutes to speak as an individual, or 15 10 minutes to speak if representing a group. 16 Members of the audience will be 17 allowed to address the Board once unless 18 directly questioned by a Board Member or the 19 Chairperson. 20 The Secretary will read the number of 21 public hearing notices mailed pertaining to 22 the case. Objection and approval responses 23 will be made into the record at that time. 24 The Chairperson will ask for input
8 1 from the Community Development Department, 2 the Ordinance Enforcement Officer, the 3 Planning Department and the City attorney. 4 The Chairperson will turn the case over to 5 the Board for discussion, clarification and 6 entertainment of a Motion when appropriate. 7 Impromptu statements from the audience 8 during discussion by the Board will not be 9 tolerated and will be considered out of 10 order. A roll call vote will be taken to 11 approve or deny the Motion on the table and 12 the next case will be called. 13 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: At this time I 14 would like to review the agenda for the 15 approval. Is there any additions, 16 corrections, et cetera, to the agenda, 17 bearing in mind that we may be adjusting 18 things based on what was discussed earlier?
19 MEMBER WROBEL: Motion to approve the 20 agenda as stated. 21 MEMBER KRIEGER: Second. 22 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: We have a Motion 23 and a second. All in favor say aye. 24 BOARD MEMBERS: Aye.
9 1 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Opposed? 2 Am I correct that we have no Minutes 3 to approve? 4 MS. WORKING: That is correct. 5 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: That is correct. 6 MS. WORKING: But you will next month. 7 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: We will next 8 month. So, we have adjusted the agenda to 9 remove the Minutes. 10 At this time here again -- well, 11 actually this is probably the perfect time. 12 Under Public Remarks. Is there anyone 13 who wants to discuss anything regarding the 14 ZBA that is not currently on the agenda? I 15 will ask that first. 16 Seeing none, at this time then, I 17 would like to entertain the discussion as 18 mentioned earlier concerning the Applicants 19 that may want to table their activities 20 until next month. 21 And this gentleman, I believe, would 22 like to be first. Please come forward, 23 state your name and the case that you are 24 in.
10 1 MR. DEBRINCAT: My name is Larry 2 Debrincat. I live at 8917 Tavistock (ph) in 3 Plymouth. 4 I am here representing my brother, 5 Joseph Debrincat, and we're going to request 6 that we be tabled. 7 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: That is case 8 number: 07-047. The first item on the 9 agenda. Do we need to have a roll call vote 10 to do that? 11 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Could we 12 get all of them to do it in all one motion 13 possibly? 14 MS. KUDLA: If we have all present, 15 all parties present that wants to table, we 16 can do it in one Motion. As of now it's an 17 individual Motion. 18 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Okay. Thank 19 you, Mr. Debrincat. We had a second 20 gentleman? 21 MR. GUIDOBONO: Mark Guidobono with 22 Cambridge Homes. Item number 2 on the 23 agenda request to be tabled. When would the 24 next meeting be?
11 1 MS. WORKING: The next meeting is 2 September 11th. 3 MR. GUIDOBONO: I will be out of town. 4 Is it possible after this case to be 5 postponed two months, is that possible? 6 MS. WORKING: Until October? 7 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Certainly. 8 MR. GUIDOBONO: That would be my 9 request. 10 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you. And 11 we had a third gentleman? 12 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Is 13 September okay with the first gentleman? 14 MR. DEBRINCAT: Yes, that's fine. 15 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: I was assuming 16 the majority of the people wanted to move 17 forward as quickly as possible. 18 MR. SHORT: William Short with 19 Charisma Salon in the Novi Town Center 20 requesting that this be tabled. 21 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: To the September 22 meeting, sir? 23 MR. SHORT: Yes. 24 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Is there anyone
12 1 else currently in the audience? What we 2 will do is periodically poll the people 3 present so nobody has to sit through a long 4 meeting, and we will continue before that 5 instance. 6 7 At this point it appears that we have 8 Case number: 07-047, and Case number: 9 07-049, that are requesting table until our 10 September meeting. 11 And Case number: 07-048, to be tabled 12 to our October meeting. Do we have a motion 13 to grant those tablings? 14 VICE CHAIR FISCHER: Motion to 15 postpone or table as presented. 16 MEMBER WROBEL: Second. 17 VICE CHAIR FISCHER: Due to Board 18 Members absences. 19 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: We have a Motion 20 made by Member Fischer and a second by 21 Member Wrobel. And I believe we need a roll 22 call vote on this one. 23 MS. WORKING: Vice chair Fisher? 24 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Aye.
13 1 MS. WORKING: Member Krieger? 2 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes. 3 MS. WORKING: Member Wrobel? 4 MEMBER WROBEL: Yes. 5 MS. WORKING: Chairman Shroyer? 6 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Yes. 7 MS. WORKING: Motion passes 4-0. 8 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you very, 9 gentleman, we will see you in the near 10 future, and our apologies. 11 With the current case, to the City 12 Attorney, as we continue to move forward, 13 with this being a public hearing, are we 14 required to read the notifications and 15 letter of correspondence, the objections and 16 the approvals? Or do we retain those on 17 file for the next month? 18 MS. KUDLA: Not for the ones that are 19 tabled. We do them for the next month. 20 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Since these have 21 been tabled, do I need to go through each 22 case individually in case there are members 23 in the audience who want to speak on that 24 behalf?
14 1 MS. KUDLA: No, because then it will 2 be noticed again and they can speak on 3 behalf at the next one. 4 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you very 5 good. Well, tonight's agenda isn't going to 6 be quite as long as it was before. We have 7 moved up to case number four. 8 But I do want to say, the Zoning Board of 9 Appeals is a Hearing Board empowered by the 10 Novi City Charter to hear appeals seeking 11 variances from the application of Novi 12 Zoning Ordinances. 13 It takes a vote of at least four 14 members, tonight that's exactly what we 15 have to have, to approve a variance requests 16 and a vote of majority present to deny a 17 request. In this case it would actually, it 18 would have to be even one denial would be a 19 negative. Because we have to have all four 20 in favor. 21 The Board consist of seven regular 22 Members and one alternate Member. The 23 alternate Member has the right to 24 participate in all Board discussions and
15 1 hearings, but may not vote except in the 2 absence or extension of a regular Board 3 Member. 4 5 We will go on to the first case which 6 at this point is Case Number: 07-050 filed 7 by Patti Loose of Sign Fabricators for 8 Andiamo Second City located at 42705 Grand 9 River Avenue. 10 Patti Loose of Sign Fabricators is 11 requesting a 21.2 square foot sign variance 12 and a 2-foot height sign variance for the 13 placement of an 8-foot by 6-foot 4-inch 14 ground sign for Andiamo Second City to be 15 located at said address. 16 The requested sign will replace a 17 previously approved ground sign in ZBA 18 97-111. The property is zoned TC-1 and 19 located east of Novi Road and south of Grand 20 River Avenue. 21 The Ordinance Section 28-5(2)a.1 22 states that the area height and placement 23 regulations states of a Ground sign. A 24 ground sign shall not exceed a maximum of 30
16 1 square feet. As mentioned, the Applicant is 2 requesting a 51.2 square foot ground sign. 3 And also, City Ordinance, Section 4 28-5(2)a.2.ii states: Area height and 5 placement regulations states that: All 6 other ground signs shall not exceed a height 7 of six feet. 8 This Applicant is requesting an 8-foot 9 tall sign. 10 I see the Applicant has stepped 11 forward. Would you please state your name 12 and address and be sworn in by our 13 Vice-chair in the absence of our Secretary 14 in the event that you are not an attorney. 15 MR. BROOK: Robert Brook, 21544 16 Audette, Dearborn, Michigan. I am 17 representing the Sign Fabricators in this 18 case. 19 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Can you 20 please raise your hand? 21 MR. BROOK: Oh, sure. 22 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Do you 23 swear to tell the truth regarding Case 24 number: 07-050?
17 1 MR. BROOK: Yes. 2 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Thank you. 3 MR. BROOK: First off, I want to make 4 sure everybody got a copy of the landlord 5 approval. It came in late today and I got 6 it on an e-mail just before I showed up. 7 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Yes. Mr. 8 Elliot? 9 MR. BROOK: Right. 10 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: The owner of 11 Main Street East building? 12 MR. BROOK: That's it. 13 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Okay, very good. 14 MR. BROOK: As was stated, this was 15 ZBA'd in the past for the sign that's 16 existing. They just want to basically 17 replace the same size, height, the whole bit 18 with the names of the tenants that are 19 there. Andiamo's Second City and Dirty 20 Martini Lounge. 21 From what I could ascertain it's, the 22 sign itself is in no way intrusive where it 23 is. It's just for I.D.ing these businesses. 24 Currently it's Main Street East identifying
18 1 their complex, and they want to get the 2 individual customers on here and stay at the 3 same size. That's basically what we are 4 looking at. 5 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you. This 6 is a public hearing. Is there any members 7 of the audience that care to comment on this 8 case? 9 Seeing none, I will close the Public 10 Hearing, and indicate that 22 notices were 11 mailed. We received 0 approvals and one 12 objection. 13 That objection is from a Jeff Kruse, 14 K-R-U-S-E, from Belle Tire, 42409 Grand 15 River and he stated: The Main Street 16 entrance sign already effectively blocks our 17 building. Additional signage is not to be 18 to the benefit of our already 19 visibility-challenged business. 20 The challenge is reading the 21 handwriting. So, that was an objection. 22 At this time is there any comments 23 from the City or Counsel? 24 MS. WORKING: Chairman Shroyer, I just
19 1 wanted to point out that the approval letter 2 was e-mailed in at 2:42 this afternoon. So 3 I want to make sure you're referencing the 4 correct letter. There was a prior letter 5 that was a little short of detail, so I 6 requested a more detailed approval letter. 7 It's prefaced by the e-mail that Patti Loose 8 from Sign Fabricators attached to send to 9 me. It was in your packet. 10 That should be the approval letter 11 that the Board uses for their standard here. 12 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you. Any 13 other comments? 14 MR. FOX: We have no other comment. 15 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you. At 16 this time I will turn it over to the ZBA 17 Members for discussion. I will look to my 18 left. 19 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: I move that 20 we don't allow the Chair to make any more 21 jokes tonight, I'll tell you that much. 22 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: To the left, to 23 the left. 24 MEMBER KRIEGER: That's a song.
20 1 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Well, while 2 we're waiting I'll comment. I really like 3 the current sign. Did the organization look 4 at all about just replacing the verbiage 5 that's on the current sign with maybe the 6 headliner at the top and the other two 7 businesses in the lower section? Step up to 8 the mic, please. 9 MR. BROOK: They looked it over and 10 then they more or less approved this sign 11 that's on the drawing here. They like that 12 as opposed to what's there now. 13 It states it's the Main Street east. 14 This is descriptive of the three businesses 15 that are in that area. 16 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: By the way, 17 while you're up there, if you have a copy of 18 the sign, could you put it on the over head 19 so our audience can see it. And I will 20 mention for those who may be viewing from 21 the home audience, I understand that we have 22 a piece of equipment that is not 23 functioning, so consequently what we get to 24 see here, unfortunately you will not be able
21 1 to view at home. So, bear with us, 2 hopefully we will have everything back in 3 order for the next meeting. 4 Thank you. 5 MR. BROOK: I believe it is going to 6 be a little more distinctive than the 7 classic monument sign that is there now. 8 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: The current sign 9 is 51.2 square feet. It's basically the 10 same size as the one that's in existence. 11 With this not being made of brick or 12 surrounded by brick, what fabrication does 13 this consist of? 14 MR. BROOK: Aluminum structure to be 15 secure to the ground, ground base. 16 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: That's all the 17 comments I had. 18 Member Krieger? 19 MEMBER KRIEGER: Thank you. I agree 20 that the current sign at the Main Street 21 East gives you the downtown spirit, the area 22 that they are trying to create, although the 23 other one is nice. But that one seems more 24 agreeable. Thank you.
22 1 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Member Wrobel? 2 MEMBER WROBEL: To the Applicant. 3 Using the existing sign is that creating a 4 hardship for you other than an aesthetic 5 hardship? 6 MR. BROOK: Well, with the way you 7 look at this existing sign, there is just a 8 very limited space there for any kind of 9 I.D.ing of these businesses. That little 10 squared-off section in the middle of the 11 concrete. Any business is going to try for 12 a little more visibility, a little more 13 noticeability of their property or their 14 business. 15 This is more or less like a reader 16 board that the Main Street East would have 17 put something up there maybe saying that 18 there's going to be a 5-K run or who knows 19 what. 20 MEMBER WROBEL: If I do recall, there 21 is signage on the building currently, 22 correct? Andiamo and also Second City 23 signage? 24 MR. BROOK: Dirty Martini.
23 1 MEMBER WROBEL: So, there is a 2 differentiation there that exist currently 3 excluding this sign? 4 MR. BROOK: I don't believe so. 5 MS. KUDLA: Can I raise an issue 6 regarding the definition of a ground sign? 7 Looking at the definition of a ground sign 8 it indicates that a ground sign is a sign 9 not attached to any buildings, supported by 10 a monument, placed in the ground surface 11 such as the entire bottom of the sign is 12 affixed to the ground and is not supported 13 by poles, columns or uprights. 14 It hasn't been indicated on the record 15 how this new sign is supposed to be 16 supported. That would, I guess, raise a 17 question of whether or not there would be an 18 additional variance if it's not going to be 19 supported by any of those three means 20 mentioned. 21 MR. BROOK: I believe they use like 22 the grounding bolts into the ground into a 23 concrete base and bolt it to that. From 24 what I have dealt with in the past anyhow.
24 1 MR. FOX: Just for a little 2 clarification. 3 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Yes, sir. 4 MR. FOX: When he comes in for a 5 permit we would require that it has a 6 foundation underneath the entire sign. And 7 our definition what we are looking at is if 8 the entire sign actually touches the ground 9 along the bottom, it would be considered a 10 ground sign. 11 We look at it as if it's raised up and 12 the poles are exposed, so there is actual 13 visibility underneath it, then that would be 14 considered raised up on a post or pedestal 15 or a pole or something like that. 16 As long as the whole thing sits down 17 on the ground the support system is covered 18 up. So, its considered to be attached. 19 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: So, it appears 20 it would be considered a ground sign in our 21 instance. So, we just need to make sure 22 once everything comes as approved that it 23 meets those requirements. 24 Member Wrobel, do you have any further
25 1 comments? 2 MEMBER WROBEL: I just would like to 3 reiterate what my colleague said. When this 4 development was set up, they wanted 5 uniformity, hence the existing sign there. 6 I see no hardship by not using that sign 7 since there is recognition on the building 8 itself for Andiamo. I don't think it's 9 necessary. It's not their primary sign. 10 So, I would have a hard time supporting 11 this. 12 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you. 13 Comments from other Board Members? 14 Entertain a Motion? It makes it very 15 difficult without a full Board. 16 Member Krieger? 17 MEMBER KRIEGER: In Case number: 18 07-050 filed by Patti Loose of Sign 19 Fabricators for Andiamo Second City located 20 at 42705 Grand River Avenue, move to deny 21 request for a variance at this time as to 22 the lack of evidence for a practical 23 difficulty or a hardship. 24 MEMBER WROBEL: Second.
26 1 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: We have a Motion 2 by Member Krieger and a second by Member 3 Wrobel. Is there further discussion by the 4 Committee, by the Board? 5 Member Fischer? 6 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Might I 7 just clarify that. It is the practical 8 difficulty standard that we apply to this 9 case, hence, strike hardship from the record 10 or from the Motion, if that's appropriate? 11 MS. KUDLA: It's appropriate. Is there
12 any way we can make the Motion a little bit 13 more detailed? 14 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: I was going to 15 talk about maybe some findings. I think the 16 fact that there is already currently 17 existing signage on the building to identify 18 the businesses is one point. 19 The sign makes no effort to fit in 20 with the aesthetics which is not fair to the 21 neighbors, does not do substantial justice 22 to the neighbors of the Main Street area. 23 MS. KUDLA: Is that an Amendment to 24 the Motion?
27 1 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Yes, 2 everything I stated would be a recommended 3 Amendment to the Motion. 4 MEMBER KRIEGER: Accepted. 5 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Accepted by 6 Member Krieger and the Seconder as well. 7 MEMBER WROBEL: Yes. 8 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: The only other 9 comment I would like to make is, I will 10 state again that I really like the brick, it 11 ties in with everything. And perhaps the 12 Applicant if this does get approved, may 13 want to go back and look at the possibility 14 of reconfiguring the existing sign to make 15 it more marketable or whatever for his or 16 her property. 17 MR. BROOK: It's looking tough if I 18 appealed because we have a limited Board. I 19 sense like four nays on that, and if I had 20 seven I would probably still. 21 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: We have at times 22 in the past, and I will go to the City 23 attorney again, allowed the Applicant to 24 prior to a vote request tabling. But
28 1 typically that is done before a Motion is 2 made. 3 MR. BROOK: I just wanted to present 4 that to the client, that perhaps they want 5 to appeal because of this. I don't know, I 6 tell them what I gleaned from all this. 7 MS. KUDLA: I think you can allow on a 8 Motion to Amend to table, if that's what the 9 Motion was, before the Motion is passed if 10 that's what the Board seeks to do. 11 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: We could do that 12 if we care to. Again, I mentioned to the 13 Applicant, though, I think it's pretty 14 obvious that you have four negative votes 15 here. If you had a four to seven, the sign 16 still would have difficulty. 17 MR. BROOK: I will give them your 18 suggestion of reconfiguring or trying to do 19 something with the existing. 20 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: And I am only 21 speaking as one vote in stating that. 22 Because the big thing that we need to look 23 at is practical hardship. We have to follow 24 the Ordinances.
29 1 MR. BROOK: Right. 2 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: That's where to 3 start and where to work with. 4 MR. BROOK: Okay. 5 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: At this point 6 let's go ahead and call the roll. As soon 7 as we're ready. 8 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: I have no 9 issue with the denying at this time just 10 because at the next meeting if they do wish 11 to relook at this, we could reconsider the 12 vote at the time. And that's what we have 13 done under Tom Schultz's advice at times 14 prior to this. So, we did give the 15 Applicant at the beginning the opportunity 16 to table due to the Board. 17 Let's move forward with our decisions 18 here. If there are denials that wish to ask 19 to be reconsidered, they can work through 20 Robin and the Chair through the next month 21 to get back on the Board. That would be my 22 suggestion to keep this moving forward. 23 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: What he is 24 saying is, at the next meeting we have the
30 1 opportunity to entertain a Motion for 2 reconsideration. But at that time, 3 obviously, we would want to look at a 4 different set of plans, et cetera. 5 MS. WORKING: Chairman Shroyer, would 6 that require a new application to the ZBA? 7 Or would it be under other matters as a 8 special consideration given the 9 circumstances of the meeting this evening, 10 and the Applicant before you is the 11 Petitioner on behalf of his client in this 12 case? 13 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: In my opinion, 14 and I will double check with legal counsel 15 on this as well, it should be at no 16 additional cost to the City because we had a 17 quorum and the vote perhaps would be to deny 18 at this point. So, as long as there is no 19 additional cost to the City, I see no 20 problem with going forward. 21 If you're looking at an additional 22 cost to the City, they should have to 23 reapply. 24 MS. WORKING: It could come back as
31 1 reconsideration, we have looked at it as far 2 as noticing requirements as a 3 reconsideration, and voting requirements as 4 a reconsideration, so I think it could be 5 done that way. 6 MS. KUDLA: At no additional cost to 7 the Applicant. 8 MS. WORKING: At no additional cost to 9 the Applicant. 10 MS. WORKING: So, would you like for 11 me to call the roll, Chairman Shroyer? 12 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Please. 13 MS. WORKING: Again, this was a Motion 14 to deny. 15 Member Krieger? 16 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes. 17 MS. WORKING: Member Wrobel? 18 MEMBER WROBEL: Yes. 19 MS. WORKING: Chairman Shroyer? 20 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Yes. 21 MS. WORKING: Vice-Chair Fischer? 22 MEMBER FISCHER: Aye. 23 MS. WORKING: Motion to deny passes 24 4-0.
32 1 MR. BROOK: Thank you. 2 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: You understand 3 you need to get back with the City? 4 MR. BROOK: Yes. 5 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you. 6 7 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Moving on to our 8 next case, which is Case Number 07-051 filed 9 by Christine Laikind of Stone City located 10 at 26940 Taft. They are requesting one 11 30.32 square foot sign variance for the 12 placement of a 7-foot 7 inch x 4-foot off 13 premise ground sign to be located at 45500 14 Grand River Avenue. The property is zoned 15 I-1 and located Grand River Avenue and east 16 of Taft Road. 17 Our Ordinance Section 28-8 (1), it 18 says Off-Premises advertised signs permitted 19 according to district states: Ground pole 20 signs and wall signs only shall be permitted 21 in an I-2 district. 22 The Applicant is requesting a ground 23 sign variance to be placed off premises. 24 At this time I see the Applicant has
33 1 come forward. If you are not an attorney, 2 please raise your hand and state your name 3 and address and be sworn in by our 4 Vice-Chair. 5 MS. LAIKIND: My name is Christine 6 Laikind, I am here on behalf of Stone City. 7 MR. CEBLARE (ph): I am Roger Ce blare 8 of Stone City. 9 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Will you 10 both your hands. Do you swear to tell the 11 truth regarding Case number: 07-051?
12 MR. CEBLARE: Yes. 13 MS. LAIKIND: Yes. 14 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Please state 15 your case. 16 MS. LAIKIND: We're here to petition 17 for a sign on the corner because we believe 18 that it's time that we have a presence at 19 that corner. We have been at that location 20 for 10 years and right now the customers 21 have a hard time finding us off the main 22 road. The only way they can see us is 23 driving down I-96, and once you get off the 24 highway it's difficult to locate us.
34 1 We receive a lot of phone calls from 2 customers today trying to locate us. So, we 3 would like to have the opportunity to place 4 a sign at that corner for our business. 5 MR. CEBLARE: We have had a sign in 6 the past granted and my last staff didn't 7 complete the whole base around it and they 8 had a question about it, so we took it down. 9 So, it was permitted before. My management 10 that I had there before didn't complete the 11 landscaping that we were going to do around 12 it. They had a concern, we took it down. 13 We really didn't come back to it for quite a 14 few years. And just recently, even the 15 Mayor came in and said, I couldn't find you. 16 Why don't you get a sign and try to apply. 17 So, we're just kind of like -- we went 18 through a lot of the hardships of the road 19 construction. We've had a lot of problems 20 with the water running down, we corrected 21 that. We are at a pivotal point that we 22 want to rebuild that area and invest and say 23 we like to have a nice stone yard enclosed, 24 but to get a real run for it and see if we
35 1 can get the business in there. 2 A lot of people once they find us they 3 love us and they want that, and we want to 4 built a state of the art, almost like an 5 English garden type stone facility that 6 would be able to take care of a lot of the 7 new homes in the area. 8 We have a nice facility in Utica that 9 we invested a tremendous amount of money 10 and it's really nice. 11 We believe in that outdoor patio, and 12 we would like to have the opportunity to 13 have a business there to keep growing. 14 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Okay, thank you. 15 This is a public hearing as mentioned. So, 16 is there anyone in the audience who cares to 17 comment on this case? 18 Seeing none, I will close the public 19 hearing. 20 And I normally would ask the Secretary 21 to read notices, but I am the Secretary 22 today. So, 19 notices were mailed. We have 23 zero approvals and zero objections. 24 MS. WORKING: Chairperson Shroyer, at
36 1 the waking hour this afternoon after I was 2 gone, we received one additional approval 3 that I did make copies and will distribute 4 to the Board. 5 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: This is from Hue 6 L. McVelker (ph) at 27070 Taft Road, Novi. 7 He circled approval and signed it. So we 8 have an approval. 9 Is there any comments from the City or 10 Counsel at this time? 11 MS. KUDLA: No. 12 MR. FOX: If it please the Board, just 13 a little clarification. The variance they 14 are seeking is for the sign being off 15 premises. The area of the sign does meet 16 the sign requirements within the square 17 footage requirement. 18 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you. I 19 understand perhaps that you have a written 20 document for us indicating approval for -- 21 MS. LAIKIND: Yes, I do. I am holding 22 it in my hand. It's after the legal 23 agreement made between the property owner 24 and us, that he granted us permission based
37 1 on the agreement. I have copies. 2 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Would you like 3 to pass them out, because we would like to 4 accept them, if you would? Thank you. 5 While the Board is taking a few 6 minutes to glance these over, if you have a 7 picture of your new sign could you put it on 8 the overhead for us so that everyone can see 9 the request except the home audience. 10 MR. CEBLARE: We are going to make 11 that out of a retaining wall material so it 12 looks like a nice monument sign, that's our 13 forte is in the stone work. So, we 14 definitely want to show some nice artistic 15 ability in it. 16 We want it to speak nicely of the 17 Stone products and look like it belongs. 18 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: And the size is 19 the same size that you have posted 20 currently? 21 MR. CEBLARE: Correct. 22 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: At this time I 23 will turn it over to the Board Members for 24 discussion.
38 1 Member Wrobel? 2 MEMBER WROBEL: Thank you, Mr. Chair. 3 First off, the distance from the location of 4 the proposed sign to your property, how far 5 is that? 6 MR. CEBLARE: I would say 400 feet, 7 500 feet. We're at the end of Taft, so our 8 property starts at that house down there, so 9 to the building it might be a little 10 further. But to our property line. 11 MEMBER WROBEL: I am noticing from the 12 agreement document that you just passed out 13 that they will allow you to have the sign 14 there for at least one year? 15 MR. CEBLARE: Correct. 16 MEMBER WROBEL: Then after that it's 17 at their discretion? 18 MR. CEBLARE: Correct. 19 MEMBER WROBEL: The sign does meet all 20 the City requirements for signage? 21 MR. FOX: Yes, the area of the sign 22 does meet the City requirement. 23 MEMBER WROBEL: I have seen your 24 place, but as you said, only from I-96. I
39 1 know where you are, but if I had to find it 2 from Grand River, I couldn't. 3 So, I see this does -- is necessary 4 for a business of this sort. Being set back 5 off the main road and not having any signage 6 that you can see from the road, I think it 7 would be a benefit to your customers, to the 8 City to allow a sign like this to go on. 9 The fact that you are going to put it 10 on another person's property who is 11 cooperative with this, that's a plus in my 12 book too. 13 Thank you, that's all. 14 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Member Krieger? 15 MEMBER KRIEGER: I agree. Thank you. 16 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Member Fischer? 17 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Now, you 18 say that the size is applicable, would that 19 be for that district that you are referring 20 to? The size that they are asking for would 21 be allowed in that district if it was on 22 premise, is that a correct statement? 23 MR. FOX: Correct. The ground sign is 24 allowed to be 30-square feet. It is
40 1 30-square feet. We don't consider the brick 2 work as part of the sign. 3 That does make it larger than the 4 size, but the sign itself is just where the 5 lettering is. So that part of the sign is 6 within the Ordinance. 7 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: And the 8 setbacks have been reviewed as well and are 9 okay? 10 MR. FOX: As far as I know, I don't 11 know that for a fact. Just the sign itself 12 as far as I know is correct. I don't know 13 if it's in the setback requirements or not. 14 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: I would 15 agree. 16 I see a need as well given your location, it 17 is a very particular location. The only 18 time I've ever known, I think we have had a 19 different case. Have you guys been here for 20 something else, like off, outside storage or 21 something to that affect? 22 MR. CEBLARE: Yeah, a few years ago. 23 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: I remember 24 it being difficult back then to find.
41 1 MR. CEBLARE: People have already said 2 that are glad to see the temporary sign. 3 They said we found you. 4 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: 5 (Unintelligible) as shown by the Petitioner. 6 Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 7 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: I have a couple 8 comments. The first one is, it is a very 9 attractive sign, the proposed sign. I did 10 not know you were there and I live less than 11 a half of mile from your store and I drove 12 someplace on 23 and bought all the Stone 13 that I needed, and it makes me sick with the 14 gas prices what it is. However, I will say 15 driving down to your store I had to get my 16 car washed afterwards. That's something to 17 work on in the future. 18 MR. CEBLARE: Paver that street, that 19 would be nice. 20 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: I do have a 21 question to the City, and that is regarding 22 the stones painted at their entrance that 23 say Stone City. There is eight stones, 24 however many stores there are. There is an S
42 1 on one, a T on one, an O on one, an N on 2 one, et cetera. And I believe under our 3 definition that's considered signage. 4 And if that is considered signage, 5 now, are we in a double signage type 6 jeopardy situation whereas -- 7 MS. KUDLA: Where we're asking for two 8 signs. Are those existing approved? 9 MS. WORKING: Chairman Shroyer. 10 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Yes. 11 MS. WORKING: Our Ordinance officer 12 would be the right person to answer that 13 question, and he is on an approved vacation 14 today. It was not something that was raised 15 to our attention prior to the hearing 16 tonight. I don't feel comfortable answering 17 the question right now without researching 18 it. 19 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: What I would 20 suggest is the maker of the Motion, if we do 21 go forward with this in approval, that it be 22 contingent upon a review by the sign 23 ordinance officer as to whether or not we 24 can do this, in fact. Or perhaps --
43 1 MR. CEBLARE: We would be willing to 2 take those out. Some graffiti person came 3 and put that in there, I don't know who did 4 that. We can get rid of those because that 5 was our only way of -- people even down 6 there, they got to the end of the street and 7 they still turned around and went the other 8 way. 9 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: And I wondered 10 too. I just driving and I went, oh, there 11 you are. 12 MR. CEBLARE: It's just a strange site 13 to do that without pulling the building up 14 and everything else. We would be willing, 15 because that would tell us everything right 16 there. 17 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Sure. I fully 18 understand. 19 MS. KUDLA: That could be added as an 20 acceptable condition to any Motion too, if 21 you want. 22 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: That would be 23 agreeable to me. 24 So, at this time I will entertain a
44 1 Motion. 2 Mr. Fox, did you have anything? 3 Do you have a Motion from any of our 4 Board Members? 5 MEMBER KRIEGER: I will try again. In 6 Case number: 07-051 filed by Christine 7 Laikind of Stone City located at 26940 Taft 8 Road, I move to approve their request for 9 the variance of the ground sign to be placed 10 off premises. That they have a practical 11 difficulty in location. That they have a 12 letter stating the approval of Richard 13 Nummaria (ph) of having the sign on his 14 property, and also the agreement statement 15 that was presented to us. 16 And that, also, that our sign 17 ordinance officer will be investigating the 18 stones with the lettering, and upon his 19 information to approve this. 20 MS. KUDLA: I believe the Motion, I 21 thought the Motion would be that that 22 consideration would be done as a condition 23 rather than having the ordinance officer -- 24 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Might I
45 1 suggest to Member Krieger that we make part 2 of the Motion that this approval is 3 contingent upon the removal of the lettering 4 on the stones. I believe that's where most 5 of the Board was going. 6 MEMBER KRIEGER: Okay. 7 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Additional 8 signage if it's deemed by the ordinance 9 officer that that is, indeed, a sign. Are 10 you okay with that? 11 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes. 12 MS. KUDLA: Did we even clarify 13 whether the ordinance officer is going to be 14 looking at it or whether it is going to just 15 be removed period without the ordinance 16 officer? 17 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: How does the 18 Motioner want to do it? 19 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: The 20 Petitioner didn't seem to have an objection 21 to removing it. 22 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Yes, I don't 23 think he had a problem with that. 24 MR. CEBLARE: Yeah, we'll take that
46
1 off. You can put it on there, we will turn 2 the rocks over. 3 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: It's contingent 4 upon the removal of the -- 5 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Just turn 6 them around. 7 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: -- existing 8 signage -- 9 MR. CEBLARE: I get them down to 10 there, they will find the rest of the way. 11 MS. KRIEGER: Yes. 12 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: You can drive 13 out on 96 -- 14 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes. 15 MEMBER WROBEL: Second. 16 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Now we have a 17 second. It's been moved by Member Krieger 18 and seconded by Member Wrobel. 19 Any further discussion? 20 Please call the roll. 21 MS. WORKING: Member Krieger? 22 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes. 23 MS. WORKING: Member Wrobel? 24 MEMBER WROBEL: Yes.
47 1 MS. WORKING: Vice-Chair Fischer? 2 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Aye. 3 MS. WORKING: Chairman Shroyer? 4 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Yes. 5 MS. WORKING: Motion to approve passes 6 4-0. 7 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: It's been 8 approved. Please get with the City to 9 clarify everything. 10 MR. CEBLARE: Thank you. 11 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you. 12 13 Next case is Case number: 07-052 14 filed by Nels Carlson of 1365 South Lake 15 Drive. He is requesting a variance to the 16 storage requirement for recreational 17 equipment less than six feet in height above 18 the ground in any required side yard or rear 19 yard. Applicant is proposing to store 20 recreational equipment in the front yard 21 adjacent to the road. 22 Property is zoned R-4 and located on 23 the south side of South Lake Drive and east 24 of West Park Drive.
48 1 The Ordinance for the City Section 2 25042 states: Commercial and Recreational 3 Vehicle Parking and Storage, that the 4 off-street parking or storage of any mobile 5 home or recreational equipment in any 6 residential district shall be subject to the 7 following conditions: 8 Any recreational equipment less than 9 six feet in height above the ground may be 10 stored in any required side or rear yard. 11 And as stated, the Applicant is requesting 12 to store his recreational equipment in the 13 front yard. 14 Before we continue to move forward, I 15 will ask the Applicant, because I am not 16 sure if you were present when we started, do 17 you care to have this case tabled because we
18 do not have a full Board? 19 MR. CARLSON: No, I will take your 20 decision. 21 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Please state 22 your name and address, and if you are not an 23 attorney, be sworn in by our Vice-Chair. 24 MR. CARLSON: Nels Carlson, 1365 South
49 1 Lake. I am an attorney, but I will still 2 tell the truth. 3 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: You are obliged 4 to, I believe. Please state your case. 5 MR. CARLSON: I don't know how many of 6 you folks were present, (unintelligible). 7 This is a very regulated area on South Lake 8 it's both wetlands and woodlands here. The 9 only way we could get our house in was to 10 push it all the way to the back of the 11 property, and that was done. 12 And it as part of that process I came 13 in and requested and I think it's attached 14 to the packet, a variance so we can store 15 our boats back now behind where the garage 16 is to the side. The house actually faces 17 west rather than south. There is no front 18 yard. There is an open. There is a natural 19 open space up in the front where a house 20 would be if the wetlands didn't tail in 21 sufficiently so you couldn't put a house 22 there. 23 There is no side yard. There really 24 isn't any rear end yard. We are wedged in
50 1 sideways at the back. If what I am 2 proposing that I be allowed to do is put my 3 boats exactly where they would be if my 4 house could have been where everybody's 5 house on South Lake Drive is, namely in the 6 front of the yard. It's right next to where 7 my neighbor Pete and Grace Light (ph) store 8 their boats. 9 I have talked to them, they have 10 no problem with this. I am only here 11 because the ordinance officer initially told 12 me you have to store those things across the 13 street on the lake front where I put them, 14 and then came back two years later and said, 15 no, no, no, no, no, you got to move them out 16 of there on the 31st of May. They can't be 17 there any more, but you can bring them back 18 in in September or something like that. 19 So I moved them and I moved them over 20 to exactly where they are going to be. I 21 don't know if anybody has traveled by the 22 property or not. They are right where they 23 would be if my house was going to be in the 24 front. They are right next to where my
51 1 neighbor has his. 2 I know that there are a couple people 3 from Lilly Pond behind us who have filed 4 some kind of objection. But, I am not 5 asking for anything like, I don't want 6 everybody to store boats on the front. I am 7 not trying to set a precedent. This is a 8 unique piece of property. 9 The hardship I have is there is no 10 place to store these boats, zero. I don't 11 know what I will do with the boats if you 12 don't want me to put it there, and I will 13 put it anyplace you want. I just as soon as 14 have them over on the lake front. But 15 that's where they were at, but then I was 16 required to move them by the ordinance 17 officer. 18 I think this is about the only place 19 that they can effectively be. I think there 20 is probably -- probably some of the 21 objections which were filed is because of 22 the way this came out. I didn't say in my 23 request that I wanted to store them in my 24 front yard. My front yard is actually my
52 1 side yard and faces my neighbor's side yard. 2 And my front door faces the other 3 direction. I don't have a front yard. If 4 it is said that I wanted to store them where 5 everybody is storing them, if I could have 6 built my house where everybody else built 7 their house, which is what my Petition says, 8 I don't think anybody would have objected. 9 The hardship is that I have no place 10 to put them. We had to bring in 600 tons of 11 filter because as it turned out, the water 12 table was 12 inches below, so I couldn't put 13 them back where you guys gave me the 14 variance. I would love to have them back 15 there, but there is a 4-foot retaining wall. 16 I can't put them there. This is the only 17 place on the property I know where they can 18 be. 19 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Okay. Is that 20 all? 21 MR. CARLSON: Yeah, I'm done. 22 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Okay, thank you. 23 This being a public hearing, is there anyone 24 in the audience who cares to make a comment
53 1 on this case? 2 Seeing none, I will close the public 3 hearing. 4 MR. CARLSON: One final thing, I'm 5 sorry. You put in a 25 mile an hour speed 6 limit sign. My neighbor tells me it's 7 supposed to right at the property line. 8 It's three feet off the property line. If 9 you could move it to the property line, I 10 would be able to get my boats in. 11 I already cracked open my mail box 12 trying to come around the other way to avoid 13 this 25 mile an hour sign. 14 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Okay. We mailed 15 30 notices. We received 30 approvals and 16 three objections. The 17 objections were one from Jacqueline Kachiney 18 (ph) 29925 Lilly Trail. It states under 19 comments: Please, no. 20 The second letter of objection was 21 from an R. Faust at 29925 Lilly Trail. 22 Objection. The comment was: Then everyone 23 will want to park their boats in the front 24 yard. Ugh.
54 1 The third letter is from the Lilly 2 Pond Homeowners Association. And the 3 comments are: It is the concern of the 4 homeowners in the Lilly Pond Subdivision 5 with possible subjection. I really wish 6 ordinance was written for the aesthetic and 7 home value protection of all homes in the
8 area. Lilly Pond homeowners object to the 9 variance for this very reason. 10 Also, a great concern to our 11 homeowners is the message this sends to 12 residents in this woodland lake front area. 13 How does Council grant one variance without 14 having it continue the precedence? 15 MR. CARLSON: Do I have an opportunity 16 to respond to those or just make a comment? 17 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: If any of us 18 open it back up to you, sir. 19 MR. CARLSON: Thank you. 20 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: At this time I 21 will turn it over to the Board for comments 22 and questions and discussion. 23 To the City first, does the City or 24 Counsel have any comments?
55 1 MS. KUDLA: I just wanted to comment 2 that the sign issue cannot be part of the 3 zoning matter and to just contact the DPW on 4 Monday. 5 MR. CARLSON: I just don't want to 6 have to cut it down and move it myself. 7 (Unintelligible) I want the speed limit to 8 be 25 and I want the sign up. I just don't 9 want to run my boat into it. 10 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: We have no 11 jurisdiction over that -- 12 MR. CARLSON: I wasn't sure whether 13 you did or not. I just thought that I would 14 conclude it so I could remember it before 15 the next time I try to move the boats. 16 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: I have it 17 highlighted in your letter, actually. 18 Any other comments from the City? 19 MR. FOX: We have no other comments at 20 this time. 21 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you. Now, 22 we will turn it over to the Board. 23 Member Krieger? 24 MEMBER KRIEGER: I have a question for
56 1 the City. Where are boats supposed to be 2 parked on East Lake or South Lake? 3 MR. FOX: I'm kind of looking for that 4 section of the Ordinance right now. There 5 is a provision, I'm just not sure what 6 section of the Ordinance. I can't find the 7 number off the top of my head. 8 But it allows from, I believe it's 9 October to May, storage of boats in those 10 areas which is what they were telling him 11 after a certain date he had to move them. 12 They were allowed to be there through the 13 winter, but not through the summer at the 14 location he has them now. 15 MS. WORKING: Member Krieger, the map 16 that was in your packet shows the 17 Petitioner's parcel, the road that is across 18 the street. The Petitioner owns that segment 19 of property, that is the limited seasonal 20 allowance for parking a boat. In the 21 Ordinance it stipulates that any 22 recreational equipment less than six feet in 23 height above the ground. And it continues 24 as follows on your agenda 2504.2 in required
57 1 side yard or rear yard. And you have heard 2 the Petitioner's statement as to why he 3 can't meet that requirement. 4 MEMBER KRIEGER: So, this area where 5 he has the boats now that I saw today he has 6 got it next to his neighbor and he has 7 stated the neighbor has no complaints 8 against it at this time. 9 MR. CARLSON: I talked with Pete and 10 he said he has no objection. He has at any 11 given time a large trailer that has 12 motorcycles and off-road vehicles and at 13 least one boat trailer, and sometimes two 14 boats and a number of other things parked 15 right there. It's next to his house. If I 16 put my garage on that side and I could have 17 put my house in front, I would be legal. 18 MEMBER KRIEGER: Okay, that's all I 19 have right now. 20 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: He would have 21 received the mailing also for this. 22 MR. CARLSON: Oh, I know he did. I 23 asked him. 24 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Member Fischer?
58
1 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: So, 2 technically the neighbor that you speak of 3 that's on the side there, they are not 4 asking for a variance as well; is that 5 correct? 6 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Yes, Mr. Fox? 7 MR. FOX: I did find that section I 8 was talking about. It's section 2910 of the 9 Zoning Ordinance. It says for the parcel of 10 land on the water, on the water front there, 11 that you are allowed to have winter storage 12 of boats and docks on October 1st to May 13 31st. So, that was where he was originally 14 storing them and he was asked to move them. 15 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Got you. 16 Looking at the maps and listening to the 17 Petitioner's request, Mr. Chair, I really 18 don't see that there is any other way to do 19 this. Oftentimes with cases such as this I 20 would look around and I will say where else 21 can it be. What can he do to not need this 22 variance. And in this situation there is 23 none due to the 4-foot retaining wall, due 24 to the variance being granted no longer
59 1 being accessible. 2 I don't think we would want the 3 Petitioner to keep it across the street 4 either. I don't think that that would be 5 appeasing to his neighbors or good for 6 property values. So, I think that keeping 7 it in line with where his neighbors must 8 keep their recreational vehicles is the 9 optimum place for the city. Telling him no, 10 is not an option. Telling him not to keep 11 him own recreational vehicles on his 12 property is not an option to me. So, given 13 all those facts I would be in favor of this 14 Petitioner. Thank you, Mr. Chair. 15 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Any further 16 comments? 17 Member Wrobel? 18 MEMBER WROBEL: I agree with Mr. 19 Fischer's comments. But, on the other hand 20 I look at it as, this was a self-imposed 21 hardship by building on this land. You knew 22 what the parameters were when you built on 23 it. So, you are asking us to relieve 24 something that you knew could be a potential
60 1 problem before you built it. 2 So, that's what I'm having trouble 3 going back and forth with. I understand 4 your problem, I sympathize with you, but I'm 5 not a hundred percent sold yet, that relief 6 should be provided because this is a 7 pre-existing condition that you knew about. 8 So, I am still on the fence right now. 9 MR. CARLSON: Well, the hardship would 10 be the retaining wall. Because I sought and 11 received the variance to put them where they 12 would normally be. I didn't know the water 13 table was going to be a foot below the land 14 and I was going to have to put in 4 feet of 15 fill everywhere on the property to build a 16 house and then put in a retaining wall to 17 hold it up. 18 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Are you through, 19 Mr. Wrobel? 20 MEMBER WROBEL: That's all I have, Mr. 21 Chair. 22 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you. 23 Member Krieger, did you have a comment? 24 MEMBER KRIEGER: Not yet.
61 1 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: It's a difficult 2 case. 3 MR. CARLSON: I agree. 4 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: To me, that's 5 why we're here. This epitomizes the reason 6 to have the Zoning Board of Appeals to look 7 at individual cases. I agree with the 8 comments that came in, please don't put them 9 in the front yard, and please don't open up 10 a can of worms and all this type stuff. I 11 totally agree with that, but we need to look 12 at every case on an individual basis and how 13 does it apply to them. And we always have 14 difficulty up around lake properties due to 15 the wetlands and the woodlands and the 16 narrowness of the property, et cetera, et 17 cetera. 18 If your neighbor did not park his 19 vehicles in a similar location, I probably 20 too would be opposed to this. But with the 21 neighbor parking his -- and they were there 22 or there was something there at least when I 23 went by the other day, and I agree with 24 Member Fischer, I don't see where else it
62 1 could be done. 2 You have tried. You have come forth, 3 you requested a variance and was granted a 4 variance, but unfortunately it didn't work. 5 It probably cost you big dollars to try to 6 do that. 7 MR. CARLSON: It did. My wife calls 8 it my retirement dirt. 9 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Your retirement 10 dirt. So, in this case, to me, as I 11 mentioned that's why we're here is to look 12 at the individual cases. And I am in favor 13 of allowing this variance. 14 Did you have a comment, Mr. Fox? 15 MR. FOX: If it pleases the Board, I 16 would make a suggestion that any Motions, if 17 you decide to vote in favor of this, that 18 any Motions include that it meet all the 19 Zoning Ordinance requirements for the 20 location. There are other individual 21 requirements that need to be met. 22 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you very 23 much. Any further comments? 24 If not, I will entertain a Motion.
63 1 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Could you 2 further elaborate on that a little bit? 3 Like, so I know why we are putting it in the 4 Motion. 5 MR. FOX: Well, there are other things 6 as far as the condition of tarps, covers, 7 registration, things of that nature that 8 need to be satisfied that he could still get 9 ticketed even if though he has permission to 10 park there. 11 I just wanted that all to be a part of 12 the Motion so that he is aware of all those 13 items. 14 MR. CARLSON: I am definitely aware of 15 those items. It has current registration. It 16 has a tarp on it. It's -- I'm well aware of 17 that. 18 MR. FOX: Thank you. 19 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Yes, sir? 20 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: I would 21 move that in Case Number: 07-052 filed by 22 Nels Carlson for 1365 South Lake Drive that 23 the Board approve the request as requested 24 due to the fact that an undue hardship has
64 1 been established by the Petitioner. 2 MS. KUDLA: Practical difficulty. We 3 are just looking for a location or 4 dimensional variance where he is putting the 5 boat. We're not looking at this as a use 6 variance. 7 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Okay. At 8 first I thought it was. 9 Practical difficulty has been 10 established by the Petitioner and the fact 11 of trying to preserve the wetlands and 12 woodlands when building his residence. 13 Previously obtaining a variance for a less 14 visible area, but fortunately to other
15 circumstances that did not work out. And he 16 proved that this would not be a detriment to 17 the surrounding areas as the neighbors also 18 put their boats in a similar position on 19 that lot. 20 It also has to do with the difficulty 21 of where his house was placed on the lot and 22 the configuration of said lot. Let me also 23 make a condition that all other City 24 ordinances must be met in accordance with
65 1 these recreational vehicles equipment. 2 MS. KUDLA: That's fine. 3 MEMBER KRIEGER: Second. 4 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: We have a Motion 5 by Member Fischer and a second by Member 6 Krieger. 7 Any further discussion? 8 Ms. Working, please call the roll. 9 MS. WORKING: Vice-Chair Fischer? 10 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Aye. 11 MS. WORKING: Member Krieger? 12 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes. 13 MS. WORKING Chairperson Shroyer? 14 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Yes. 15 MS. WORKING: Member Wrobel? 16 MEMBER WROBEL: Yes. 17 MS. WORKING: Motion passes 4-0. 18 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Your request has 19 been granted, sir. 20 MR. CARLSON: Thank you, Board 21 Members. 22 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you. 23 24 Our next case is Case Number:
66 1 07-053 filed by Igor Kacmarcik of Marygrove 2 Awnings for Whirly Ball located at 4150 3 Grand River Avenue. 4 That they are requesting one 40-square 5 foot canopy sign variance for the placement 6 of an 8-foot by 3-foot 7-inch front facing 7 canopy sign, and a 3-foot 4-inch by 3-foot 8 7-inch side facing canopy sign to be located 9 at 41540 Grand River for Whirly Ball. 10 The property is zoned NCC, and located 11 north of Grand River Avenue and west of 12 Meadowbrook Road. 13 The Novi Ordinance states under 14 Section 28-5(1)d, types of signs permitted 15 in each district states: In an NCC, on 16 premises advertising signs as follows: 1. 17 Business sign: Ground sign, or wall sign. 18 The Applicant is requesting a 19 canopy sign over the entrances of the 20 building. 21 Under Section 28-5(2)c: Canopy sign 22 states Area: Maximum 24 square feet on 23 either side or both sides of the canopy. 24 The Applicant is requesting a total of
67 1 40 feet in canopy signage. 2 I see the Applicant has come forward. 3 Please state your name and address. And if 4 you're an attorney you don't have to be 5 sworn in. If you are not an attorney, we 6 need to swear you in. 7 MR. BUSSEY (ph): Well, I am an 8 attorney, Charles Bussey, representing 9 Whirly Ball and the Applicant, Igor 10 Kacmarcik of Marygrove Awning. My address 11 is 1235 North Main Street, Rochester, 12 Michigan. 13 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: And you do care 14 to move forward with this case as opposed to 15 requesting it to be tabled? 16 MR. BUSSEY: Well, Mr. Chairman, I 17 appreciate you raising that point because 18 this request has some uniqueness, and I 19 recognize that I would need to get a 20 unanimous vote this evening. 21 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Correct. 22 MR. BUSSEY: I have appeared in front 23 of Zoning Boards a time or two, and some 24 Boards are reluctant in midstream, jump up
68 1 in a Motion in trouble and offer a tabling. 2 Others are very comfortable in doing that to 3 offer the Petitioner an opportunity to 4 proceed and try to resolve the matter, but 5 not force the Petitioner to refile if the 6 votes aren't there in this situation. 7 So, I might ask, Mr. Chairman, if that 8 might be an option that if things aren't 9 quite unanimous where folk feel like it's 10 the right thing to do tonight, if I might be 11 able to secure a tabling and revisit this 12 thing in -- is September the next meeting? 13 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Yes, sir. 14 MR. BUSSEY: When there is a greater 15 attendance. I recognize that with summer 16 schedules it's a natural thing that folks 17 would not be in full number. 18 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: What we will do 19 is, with permission, make sure we cover all 20 our legal grounds, we can move forward with 21 this, allow the public to speak and continue 22 and get comments, et cetera, but prior to a 23 Motion, offer the tabling option to the 24 Applicant.
69 1 MS. KUDLA: Prior to a Motion we can 2 do that, or if the Motion was made, we could
3 do -- what we do with a person regarding 4 reconsideration, the chain of standard. 5 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: My preference 6 would be prior to the Motion, and the reason 7 for that is you will be able to tell the 8 feelings of the Members present as to the 9 direction they would be going based on the 10 comments and questions. So, you should be 11 able to make an intelligent decision at that 12 time. 13 MR. BUSSEY: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I 14 appreciate the flexibility. In brief, in 15 this particular case because of the request 16 for the canopy, the City has asked for us 17 not just for us to put a photograph together 18 or something along those lines, which I 19 don't have with me, it asked us to actually 20 install it so that your staff can view the 21 actual canopy as it would appear because 22 this sort of request doesn't come around all 23 that often. So, we have 24 installed it. As we were preparing to do
70 1 that, we worked very closely with your 2 Building Department in a couple of areas. 3 One, the texture and durability of the 4 fabric. There was a concern that if, 5 indeed, the canopy made sense by this Body, 6 that it not be of such a wear-through fabric 7 that a few rain storms and maybe a good wind 8 might tatter the thing. 9 So, we worked very closely with a 10 grade of durable fabric and came to an 11 agreement with the Building Department about 12 the right sort of strong weatherproof 13 durable fabric. So, that's the kind of 14 fabric we put up. Additionally, 15 there was a concern that if our goal truly 16 be to sign our facility to offer some 17 signage to the public where there is 18 currently none, that it not be so 19 aggressive to the eye. That it be somewhat 20 of a not so aesthetic offer. 21 Significantly to that point, we did 22 want to interior light the fabric so that as 23 the evening hours approached, which, of 24 course, with Whirly Ball this is an adult
71 1 function by many business groups and clubs, 2 that there be evening hours, of course. And 3 certainly with the sports center there is 4 evening hours as well. We wanted to add 5 interior light and back light. The City 6 didn't want that. So, we also agreed not to 7 install any lighting. So, there is no back 8 lighting. 9 The awning is there as it appears 10 during the daylight hours and offers 11 daylight signage which really was our goal. 12 Because as, Mr. Chair, you cited into the 13 record, the Ordinance allows under the 14 business signage for our zone, either a 15 ground sign or a wall sign. Currently 16 neither option is available -- well, 17 certainly the ground sign is not available 18 to us. 19 If you are familiar with where we are 20 located on the site, we are further back on 21 the property. It's a viable site. And the 22 sports complex there with families is 23 certainly a very busy and active place, is a 24 ways back, and a ground sign was not
72 1 available to us. 2 And we simply didn't pursue the wall 3 signage because on one occasion, on one hand 4 we thought it would be really not very 5 effective at all. Plus, to be even a bit 6 eye catching, it would have to be so 7 dramatic in color that we really felt it 8 would be aesthetically unappealing. This 9 would be our only signage available. The 10 greater visibility as well. 11 We asked for the additional 12 square footage for really only one reason, 13 and that is at this site, the way the 14 parking is situated, there really is no way 15 to adequately canopy without a canopy on the 16 side of the building and on the front of the 17 building where parking is all available. 18 So, if we only did one side of the building, 19 we miss the side where most of the parking 20 actually is on the west side of the 21 building. 22 And if we only put the signage canopy 23 there, then we wouldn't have any signage 24 where there is actually the thoroughfare,
73 1 Grand River and the side street. So, this 2 really is the practical difficulty that we 3 found ourselves in. How to provide signage 4 that is adequate, satisfactory and eye 5 catching, but not the standards available to 6 us. The wall signage or the ground signage 7 which I have shared with you, really don't 8 seem to work with this location. 9 We do otherwise meet all the other 10 Ordinances. We have worked, as I said, with 11 the Building Department to make sure we did. 12 We have even conferred regarding the types 13 of graphics that we are using so that they 14 are not a gaudy or anything more than 15 legible to the eye. 16 Overall, I think we certainly for 17 this kind of signage and our location, I 18 know you are obviously under the Ordinance 19 you need to review on a case-by-case basis, 20 I think the uniqueness of this site provides 21 a basis for a positive vote this evening. 22 There wouldn't be any detriment. We 23 are located in that zone, that is currently 24 an industrial zone, if you will, although we
74 1 do have a condominium to the far side. They 2 really provides -- that's not the site where 3 the canopies would be. And we do think that 4 about meeting all Ordinances, that we do
5 offer one addition to our patrons, and that 6 is, that there, of course, is some 7 protection from the elements, which 8 currently there is no awning or over guard 9 on that building at this time. 10 I am certainly very willing to answer 11 any questions, Mr. Chair, and Members, that 12 you might have this evening. 13 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you. With 14 this being a public hearing, is there any 15 members of the audience who care to comment 16 on this case? 17 Seeing none, I will close the public 18 hearing and move on to talk about the 19 notices at this point. 307 notices were 20 mailed with zero approvals and one 21 objection. 22 The objection is: That the property 23 is not maintained and upkeep properly now, 24 so any additions would only add to the
75 1 current problem. That was from Linda Krause 2 at 41606 Grandview (ph) Lane. 3 Was there additional letters in the 4 packet? I don't remember. I think that was 5 the only one. That's the only one. 6 Any comments from the City or 7 Counsel regarding this case? 8 MS. KUDLA: None from Counsel. 9 MR. FOX: We have no comments. 10 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you. 11 At this point we will open it up to 12 the Board for discussion. 13 Member Wrobel? 14 MEMBER WROBEL: Thank you, Mr. Chair. 15 I have been to this location and I can't 16 find it. I have no problem with the sign 17 whatsoever. It's larger than what is 18 allowed, but given the size of the building, 19 it is in proportion to the building. So, as 20 far as having a larger sign, I see no 21 problem with it. 22 And given the way the building sits on 23 the property and the entrance and egress 24 from it, both signs, I understand why both
76 1 signs are needed. So I can support this 2 easily. Thank you. 3 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you. 4 Other comments? Okay, I will 5 make mine. 6 I was there last week and didn't 7 see the awnings up. When were they 8 installed? 9 MR. BUSSEY: Just a day or two ago. 10 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: That doesn't 11 help us much. 12 MR. BUSSEY: Well, I know some of the 13 Building folk were there. In all candor, 14 Mr. Chairman, we, not really knowing what 15 you folk might think, to really go ahead and 16 write the check and get it built and get it 17 up there in the event that we might have to 18 take it down was a little bit of a concern 19 that we internally negotiated and discussed. 20 But it just seemed that frankly, you know, 21 the City was so good to work with when we 22 went in there. 23 You might recall a couple years back 24 when the City really just wanted because of
77 1 the patrons, wanted us to have separate 2 entrances and we sort of had to do work with 3 the landlord, which we are not -- and, by 4 the way, the resident that has asked about 5 the upkeep, I will send correspondence to 6 the landlord tomorrow to ask that that be 7 addressed. That the summer months, a lot of 8 grass can grow when folk aren't looking. 9 But the City was so great to work 10 with, we thought, you know what, let's go 11 ahead. And so we put it up. So, that's 12 why it didn't get up much earlier. But it's 13 up there now. 14 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: And this is 15 totally separate from Soccer Zone? 16 MR. BUSSEY: Yep, a separate entrance. 17 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Explain to me 18 which entrance is which. Without the 19 awnings I didn't know where to look. 20 MR. BUSSEY: We are best entered on 21 the west side of the building. So, Soccer 22 Zone is on the south side. And if you -- 23 once you are in Soccer Zone you can't get in 24 our facility unless you go around outside
78 1 because we have a liquor license as you know 2 and we wanted to protect the families. 3 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: So your awnings 4 are over the west side entrance. And where 5 is the second awning? 6 MR. BUSSEY: West and south. 7 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Beside Soccer 8 Zone? 9 MR. BUSSEY: Down further from the 10 Soccer Zone entrance. 11 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Further west? 12 MR. BUSSEY: Yes. 13 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: I am trying to 14 picture it in my mind, trying to understand. 15 MS. WORKING: Chairman Shroyer, a 16 point of clarification through the Chair. 17 The Applicant, Igor Kacmarcik on behalf of 18 Whirly Ball employed by Marygrove Awning, 19 was well aware that a mock sign made of not 20 awning material, but another fabric or 21 material that wasn't permanent was permitted 22 to be at ground level as long as it was the 23 exact dimensions on two sides as the awning 24 would be installed on the building itself.
79 1 Several conversations ensued with the 2 actual applicant, Igor Kacmarcik, as well as 3 the people at Marygrove who construct these 4 awnings about the practicality of doing 5 that. 6 They were advised that should they 7 move forward with actually producing this 8 awning, that that was a contractual 9 relationship with their client, Whirly Ball, 10 and that the City did not encourage them to 11 do that should they be denied. 12 It was my understanding that a mock 13 sign, whatever they did come up with was 14 going to be out for your inspection, they 15 were well aware 7 to 10 days before the 16 Hearing, and then brought in in the evening 17 so that there wouldn't be any damage or 18 possible theft of the mock signage, whatever 19 it was determined to be. That was just a 20 point of clarification. 21 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you very 22 much for that clarification. 23 Do you by chance have with you this up 24 there? If not, could you put this on the
80 1 overhead for our audience? 2 MR. BUSSEY: I sure can if I could 3 approach. 4 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: We don't have a 5 picture of the building with it on it, at 6 least they can see what the logo would look 7 like. 8 And the other question that I would 9 have just to make sure, It's my 10 understanding that the logo itself is not 11 repeated on the awning. It's once in the 12 center in the front and on each end or just 13 one end? 14 MR. BUSSEY: One end as I recall when 15 I took a peek at it. 16 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: So, the logo is 17 centered on the front and on one end which 18 would be the entrance end, on each of the 19 two awnings? 20 MR. BUSSEY: That's correct. 21 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: And the lighting 22 is only now it's not from the inside, it's 23 the normal exterior lighting in the building 24 in the parking lot?
81 1 MR. BUSSEY: That's correct. I think 2 the City's concern was that it not look 3 like, you know, sometimes the convenience 4 stores will have the all night thing going 5 on. And we respect that. 6 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you. I 7 have no further comments. I am not opposed 8 to this. I think the colors being basic and 9 reading through the information I think the 10 colors are appropriate and it's not to the 11 size where it would be gaudy or 12 unattractive. And I fully understand that 13 this is a location that is difficult to find 14 without any type of signage, so I would be 15 in favor of this variance. 16 Member Fischer? 17 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Are both 18 awnings over public entrances? 19 MR. BUSSEY: They are. 20 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: So, they 21 public can enter both entrances? 22 MR. BUSSEY: Into the Whirly Ball 23 facility. 24 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: I just
82 1 wanted to make sure one wasn't just up there 2 for fun and it's just a private employee 3 entrance or something to that effect, so, 4 that's where I was going with that question. 5 I agree with you, Mr. Chairman. Thank 6 you. 7 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Any other 8 comments? I will entertain a Motion? 9 Member Krieger? 10 MEMBER KRIEGER: In Case number: 11 07-053 filed by Igor Kacmarcik of Marygrove 12 Awnings for Whirly Ball located at 41540 13 Grand River Avenue, I move to approve the 14 Applicant's request for a sign to be -- the 15 Applicant is requesting a canopy sign over 16 the entrance to the building. And it to be 17 a total of 40 square feet in canopy signage. 18 And the uniqueness of the area and the 19 difficulty, the practical difficulty in 20 finding this area and to be created as 21 design as presented. 22 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Is there a 23 second to the Motion? 24 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Second.
83 1 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Okay, it's been 2 moved by Member Krieger. Seconded by Member 3 Fischer. 4 Any further discussion? 5 MS. KUDLA: I believe that we just 6 have a comment on some of the pictures 7 submitted, there may be an existing sign, 8 and that there may need to be a condition 9 that additional signage be removed. 10 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: I thought that 11 was understood. It would make more sense to 12 have it clarified in a Motion. 13 MEMBER KRIEGER: That when this sign 14 is placed up and under the conditions, that 15 any previous signs will be removed. 16 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Agreed. 17 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you. 18 Under further discussions I will make a 19 comment. And I appreciate your comment that 20 the City has been very good to work with. 21 We are hearing more and more of that 22 all the time and it makes me proud to be 23 affiliated with the City. However, anything 24 that comes forward to us in the future,
84 1 please make sure that the Applicant 2 understands that he needs to get a mock-up 3 up prior to, I believe seven to ten days is 4 the request because we're very busy people 5 as well and it's not very fair to us to have 6 to make multiple trips back to the location. 7 MR. BUSSEY: So acknowledged, Mr. 8 Chair. 9 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: If you would do 10 that, I would appreciate it. 11 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Not only 12 that, Mr. Chairman, but also, and I know 13 Robin works very hard keeping the rules 14 intact, and, so, we don't want to get 15 involved in any situation where a permanent 16 sign is put up by mistake. When 17 (unintelligible) as soon as the material is 18 presented, a mock-up cardboard, I don't care 19 if it's paper that your kid might have drawn 20 on, as long as it's the same dimensions. 21 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Many of us are 22 very visual. We need to see those. With a 23 four Member Board in which you have to have 24 all four approved tonight, it could have
85 1 been touchy and may still be touchy. 2 So, at this point, please call the 3 roll. 4 MS. WORKING: Member Krieger? 5 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes. 6 MS. WORKING: Vice-Chair Fischer? 7 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Aye. 8 MS. WORKING: Chairman Shroyer? 9 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Yes. 10 MS. WORKING: Member Wrobel? 11 MEMBER WROBEL: Yes. 12 MS. WORKING: Motion to approve passes 13 4-0. 14 MR. BUSSEY: Thank you kindly, Board 15 Members. 16 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: We have always 17 operated under the policy that after the 18 meeting is approximately 90 minutes old, we 19 try to take at least a 5-minute break to 20 give us a breather before we move on. It 21 started at 7:30, it is now 9:00. So, I 22 would like to call a 5-minute break before 23 we move on to the next case. Thank you. 24 (A recess was held.)
86 1 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: We are going to 2 reconvene. And at this time I will ask as 3 we did earlier, if there is anyone in the 4 audience that is here to represent a case 5 that cares to have the case tabled until 6 next month or after that since we do only 7 have four members and do not have a full 8 Board this evening? 9 Nobody is raising their hands, so we 10 will continue to move forward. 11 12 Our next case is Case number: 13 07-054 filed by Sarah Gardner of Coy 14 Construction for 23485 Winthrop Court. 15 They are requesting a 5 and a half 16 foot rear yard setback variance for the 17 construction of a screened and enclosed 18 gazebo on an existing deck to be located at 19 23485 Winthrop Court. The property is zoned 20 R-4 and is located south of Ten Mile Road 21 and east of Novi Road. 22 The Ordinance Article Section 24 -- 23 Article 24 Section 2400 Schedule of 24 Regulations requires a minimum rear yard
87 1 setback of 35 feet. As mentioned, they are 2 requesting 5.5 feet. 3 The Applicant I see has come forward, 4 so please state your name and address, and 5 if you are not an attorney, be sworn in by 6 our Vice Chair. 7 MS. GARDNER: I'm Sara Gardner with 8 Coy Construction and it's 4214 Martin Road 9 in Commerce Township, Michigan. 10 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Would you 11 raise your hand? Do you swear to tell the 12 truth regarding Case number: 07-054? 13 MS. GARDNER: Yes. 14 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Please state 15 your case. 16 MS. GARDNER: I guess I'm just here to 17 request a 5 and a half foot rear yard 18 setback for a screened in porch. If Chris 19 was sitting there he could vouch that we do 20 a lot in the City of Novi, screened in 21 porches, that is. I am here just to 22 represent my company and the homeowner and 23 myself. That's all I got. 24 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: I like those
88 1 short and sweet presentations. 2 This is a public hearing, so at this 3 time I will ask if there is anyone in the 4 audience who cares to speak on this case? 5 Seeing none, we will close the public 6 hearing and indicate that we have sent out 7 42 notices. We received three approvals and 8 zero objections. 9 The approvals were from Steve and 10 Jeannine Paige 23452 Winthrop Court. It 11 says: We have no issue with this request. 12 The second one was from a J. Michael 13 Johnson, 44180 Winthrop Drive. He states: I 14 approve of any capital improvements to my 15 neighbors' homes. This particular neighbor 16 has good taste, and I am confident that it 17 will only improve the value of his property 18 and the surrounding properties. 19 Where is the third one? It's the 20 letter from a Linda V. Lamb, 23496 Winthrop 21 Court states: To whom it may concern. My 22 wife and I have lived at 23496 Winthrop 23 Court since 1980. We feel that the addition 24 of a deck and screened room at 23485
89 1 Winthrop Court is a favorable addition and 2 will help to increase property values for 3 the residents of Orchard Ridge Estates 4 Subdivision. We are in favor of your 5 acceptance of this requested 5 and a half 6 rear setback variance. 7 In addition, I happen to be the 8 chairman of the Architectural Committee for 9 our subdivision. We reviewed the drawings 10 for this project and accepted them as 11 submitted. We look upon this project as a 12 favorable addition to our neighborhood. 13 And, again, that was Lynn W. Lamb. 14 MS. GARDNER: Can I just say that I 15 like all three of the letters. 16 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Is there any 17 comments from the City or Counsel? 18 MS. WORKING: Through the Chair, in 19 place of Chris Fox who is looking into the 20 matter for the case coming up, number 9 on 21 the agenda. This deck has been fully 22 permitted to be built without the screened 23 in porch, but because the Applicant is now 24 requesting to screen in the gazebo, it
90 1 becomes an accessory structure by our 2 Ordinance and does require the setback 3 variance because it then encroaches too far 4 into the rear yard setback. 5 So, Coy Construction has followed all 6 the requirements from the City in pulling 7 the proper permits and having the plans 8 reviewed, it just now requires the variance 9 that is before you. 10 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you. I 11 will turn it over to the Board for comments 12 and questions. Member 13 Wrobel? 14 MEMBER WROBEL: I have no problem with 15 this. The screened in porch portion only 16 extends 11 feet behind the back of the house 17 which is well within normal range. 18 I just have a comment. Why didn't you 19 come out for the homeowner for me when Coy 20 built my home? I had to come out myself and 21 plead my case. 22 MS. GARDNER: You know, I was there 23 when we built yours, yeah. 24 MR. WROBEL: Other than that, I guess
91 1 I have no problems with it. I know that 2 they will do good work and it will be done 3 correctly. (Unintelligible) 4 MS. GARDNER: Thank you. 5 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: She wouldn't 6 have said much for you either. 7 MR. WROBEL: I know. 8 MS. GARDNER: It would have been short 9 and sweet. 10 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Any other 11 comments? 12 MS. KUDLA: At this point I would just 13 like to indicate that the Applicant has the 14 burden of proving the practical difficulty 15 in putting facts on the record regarding 16 whether there is a practical difficulty. 17 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Member Fischer? 18 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Can you put 19 this map on the overhead for us? 20 MS. GARDNER: Sure. 21 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Now, this 22 house in question it is built on a 23 cul-de-sac; is that correct? 24 MS. GARDNER: Yes.
92 1 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: And it is 2 built in kind of a pie shaped lot? 3 MS. GARDNER: Yes. 4 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Does that 5 make it a little more difficult to meet the 6 Ordinance? Is that part of the difficulty 7 that you are establishing today? 8 MS. GARDNER: I imagine it's part of 9 the difficulty. 10 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: The answer is 11 yes. 12 MS. GARDNER: Yes, sorry. 13 MS. KUDLA: It's something to 14 consider. 15 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Any other 16 unique characteristics? 17 MS. GARDNER: No. His brother-in-law 18 lives across the street and we just finished 19 his yesterday. 20 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: That's 21 pertinent. 22 Seeing no other comments being made by 23 the Board at this time, I would move that we 24 approve Case number: 07-054 as requested
93 1 due to the practical difficulty shown by the 2 Petitioner. That it has been built, in 3 fact, on an existing deck foundation. The 4 unique lot shape being built on a cul-de-sac 5 makes it more difficult to meet the 6 Ordinances of the City of Novi. 7 MEMBER KRIEGER: Second. 8 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: We have a Motion 9 by Member Fischer and a second by Member 10 Krieger. 11 Any additional comments or discussions 12 from the Board or the attorney? 13 MS. KUDLA: No. 14 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: We're okay? 15 Please call the roll. 16 MS. WORKING: Vice-Chair Fischer? 17 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Aye. 18 MS. WORKING: Member Krieger? 19 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes. 20 MS. WORKING: Member Wrobel? 21 MEMBER WROBEL: Yes. 22 MS. WORKING: Chairman Shroyer? 23 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Yes. 24 MS. WORKING: Motion passes 4-0.
94 1 MS. GARDNER: Thank you very much. 2 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you. 3 4 The next case on the agenda is 5 Case number: 07-055 filed by Richard 6 Sinkevics of 1430 West Lake Drive. 7 The Applicant is requesting one front 8 yard setback variance and one exterior side 9 yard setback variance for the construction 10 of the new home to be located 1430 West Lake 11 Drive in the John Hawthorne Sub No. 2. The 12 property is zoned R-4 and located south of 13 Pontiac Trail and east of West Park Drive. 14 Under our City Ordinances Article 24 15 Section 2400 Schedule of Regulations 16 requires a minimum front yard setback at 17 30 feet and a minimum exterior side yard 18 setback of 30 feet. 19 As mentioned, the variances requested, 20 he is looking for a 16.75-foot front yard 21 setback variance. And a 15.08-foot side 22 yard setback. So, the two setback variances 23 are requested for the construction of the 24 new home.
95 1 Is the Applicant present? 2 MS. WORKING: Mr. Chair, if I may, 3 Chris Fox was just looking into this matter. 4 He has contacted the Applicant. He was 5 under the mistaken impression that he was to 6 attend the Wednesday, August 8th, Hearing 7 which he was then informed that it was a 8 Planning Commission meeting. He was a bit 9 confused. He is on his way here now. If 10 the Board would consider hearing him last 11 and allowing the next case on the agenda, if 12 they are present to be heard. It is your 13 discretion. 14 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Any objections 15 from any of the Board Members? We are all 16 in favor of allowing him to be placed last 17 on the agenda of the public hearings. 18 19 All right. Then we will move forward 20 to the last public hearing, which is Case 21 number: 07-056 filed by Dave Nona of 22 Triangle Main Street, LLC for Main Street 23 Phase I. 24 The Applicant is requesting 11
96 1 variances for the construction of two 2 buildings to include a medical office 3 building with a restaurant and retail space 4 as well as a parking garage. 5 They are requesting two building 6 setback variances for the construction of 7 the medical office building and parking 8 garage; one parking lot setback variance for 9 on-street parking; one variance for the 10 requirement that a screen wall be installed 11 along parking in an exterior side yard; one 12 variance from the loading zone location 13 requirement; one variance for the dumpster 14 location in an exterior side yard; one 15 setback variance from the required ten foot 16 minimum for a dumpster, and one variance 17 from the minimum sidewalk width of 12.5' 18 along Paul Bunyan. 19 The property is zoned TC-1 and located 20 south of Grand River Avenue and east of Novi 21 Road. 22 I am not going to repeat all the 23 variances since I've covered them briefly in 24 the previous statement.
97 1 Is the Applicant present? This one is 2 here. 3 Please come forward, state your names 4 and addresses, and if you are not attorneys, 5 be sworn in by our Vice Chair. 6 MS. TRAXER (ph): I am Sarah Traxer 7 with McKenna & Associates of 235 East Main 8 Street, Suite 105, Northville, Michigan 9 48167. 10 MR. NONA: And I am Dave Nona of 11 Triangle Main Street, L.L.C. Our address is 12 30403 West 13 Mile Road, Farmington Hills, 13 48322. 14 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: If you 15 could raise your hand. Do you swear to tell 16 the truth regarding Case number: 07-056? 17 MS. TRAXER: I do. 18 MR. NONA: I do. 19 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Thank you. 20 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Proceed with 21 your case. 22 MS. KUDLA: Mr. Chairman, do we want 23 to give them the opportunity to table this? 24 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you very
98 1 much for bringing that up at this point. We 2 have been trying to ask the Applicants if 3 they want it tabled, knowing that we do not 4 have a full Board present and that you be in 5 a need of requiring all four approvals of 6 the people present to pass. 7 MS. TRAXER: We do appreciate that 8 offer and Mr. Nona and I have discussed it 9 and I think as you will see during our 10 presentation, are eager to move forward with 11 the project, so I think we are going to go 12 ahead and move forward this evening. Thank 13 you. 14 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you. 15 And thank you for reminding me. 16 MS. TRAXER: My name is Sarah Traxer 17 as I stated before. I work for McKenna & 18 Associates which is the planning and design 19 department that is assisting Mr. Nona and 20 Triangle Main Street, L.L.C., in this Main 21 Street Novi Development. 22 I know that you all have seen us in 23 front of you before, and we appreciate your 24 patience in being able to see us again
99 1 tonight. We do have additional requests for 2 variances for this unique Main Street Novi 3 project. 4 Acknowledging that you had have a long 5 night, I am going to keep it brief, as I 6 know you have had your packets for a while 7 to review, and I imagine that you have 8 questions, and I figure that may be the 9 right forum in which to present why we think 10 that the variances are necessary and valid 11 requests. 12 However, I would just like to 13 state as that you have presumed from the 14 staff review or the agenda that was 15 presented to you tonight, you can see that 16 the variance requests in front of you are 17 related to the planned Phase I of 18 construction for the Main Street Novi 19 project. 20 There have been some change conditions 21 surrounding the location of Paul Bunyan 22 Drive, which on the plans in front of you is 23 labeled as Memorial Street. 24 Essentially where we were going to move
100 1 forward with vacating the street, at this 2 time that has been removed from the table, 3 although, we are still trying to get that 4 done which necessitates us coming in front 5 of you for most of the variances here 6 tonight. 7 It's very important for me to state to 8 you that the overall plans and designs have 9 not changed whatsoever. The plan that you 10 are seeing tonight is the same in both 11 concept and the actual detail as the ones 12 that you have had presented to you before 13 and have also been preliminarily approved by 14 the Planning Commission. 15 I already expressed that this was part 16 of the construction of Phase 1, the variance 17 requests in front of you tonight. And as 18 was noted on the agenda, the planned work, 19 the site work meant the construction of a 20 medical office building with restaurant and 21 retail. And that's Building 800 in front of 22 you and a parking deck which is Building 700 23 on the plan. 24 We are very eager to receive all the
101 1 planning and building approvals for this 2 project to move forward. We think it's an 3 exciting project that really encapsulates 4 what the City is looking towards in their 5 Main Street area, downtown area and the TC-1 6 District. 7 So, I presume that you will have 8 questions moving forward with the individual 9 variance requests and we will be happy to 10 hopefully address all of those at that time. 11 Thank you. 12 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you. 13 Any comments, sir? 14 MR. NONA: I would just like to add 15 that even though now Memorial Street, half 16 of it is still public and the setback 17 requirements in the TC District apply to 18 public road. And, in fact, it does not go 19 to be the street where pedestrians would be 20 moving or any of the retail shops would be 21 fronting. So, it's more like an alley, a 22 back alley. And that's why we believe that 23 the setback requirements of the building as 24 well as the requirements with the width of
102 1 the sidewalk fronting this public street are 2 not as critical as they would be, let's say 3 on Main Street or the other streets where 4 pedestrians would be walking. 5 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you. 6 With this being a public hearing, is 7 there anyone in the audience who cares to 8 make a comment on this case? Please come 9 forward. 10 MS. TARKEY: Come here? 11 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Yes, ma'am. 12 Please come up to the microphone and state 13 your name and address and you got to be 14 sworn in too. 15 MS. TARKEY (ph): My name is Violet 16 Tarkey and I am representing Novi Auto 17 Parts, Tommy's Tire and Dan's Auto Repair 18 who you all right next to each other on the 19 front of the development. 20 I have a letter. I have no problem 21 with any of the variances, none of us have a 22 problem with any of the variances. It's a 23 big piece of property. It's a great 24 development, we're all excited about it.
103 1 But we just want to address this thing, and 2 maybe this isn't the place to do it, maybe 3 it is. 4 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Hold on a second 5 just a second if you would. Does she need 6 to be sworn in as well? 7 MS. KUDLA: No. 8 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: I didn't think 9 so. 10 MS. TARKEY: I'm not going to lie. 11 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Okay. 12 MS. TARKEY: This is regarding, in 13 effect they have known about it and he has 14 assured me that everything will be okay, and 15 I just want to put in the record someplace 16 about the water drainage, because when the 17 original property from the first building 18 they dug the tunnels and the parking garage 19 and the basement and then they pile the dirt 20 up there, then we get all the runoff, and 21 it's come into our buildings when there has
22 been big floods. 23 So, he has assured me that that's 24 going to be handled, but I guess I just want
104 1 it put in the record. Can we do that? Is 2 this the time and place to do it or not? 3 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: By making the 4 statement it is in the record. 5 MS. TARKEY: Okay. Should I read this 6 letter? 7 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Can we 8 place the letter in the record just by 9 default? 10 MS. WORKING: Through the Chair, in 11 the December case of Main Street requesting 12 variances before you, Violet did submit a 13 record in response and it did begin, I will 14 be out of town. And she indicated her 15 concerns, and it is an official part of that 16 record. 17 I will be happy to duplicate the 18 letter that you sent to us to be a formal 19 part of this record in addition to the 20 transcription minutes if it pleases the 21 Board. 22 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: I think that 23 would be appropriate. 24 MS. TARKEY: Then should I read this
105 1 one too? This is from my brother-in-law. 2 Now, he is Up North. 3 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Sure, go ahead. 4 MS. TARKEY: Again, I am doing this on 5 the behalf of the three property owners 6 there on the front. And it just says: We 7 are currently troubled by how the storm 8 water runoff from the project will be 9 handled. The problems were originally 10 caused by the huge hill that was created 11 when the dirt from the basement and parking 12 garage on the original Main Street project 13 were disposed of. 14 We are driven around the property and 15 checked on the wall that separates the two 16 levels of parking lots on the north side as 17 large relief holes cut through to allow 18 runoff. But the runoff then flows down 19 toward our property. So, there is just one 20 storm drain on the north corner of Tommy's 21 Tire, but the water that's flowing that way 22 is diverted right downhill towards Tommy's. 23 We had a very bad flood a few years 24 ago that affected all of us and we have been
106 1 told more than once that it would be 2 corrected, but nothing has been done. So, 3 we are just trying to make sure the new 4 project will not bring more problems if it's 5 not addressed at the beginning. 6 So, he kind of wanted a written 7 statement. This is my brother-in-law's 8 wording covering the following: That the 9 proposed masonry screen wall shown on, it's 10 one of the big plans, form WL 1A be 11 completed now not at some later date. And 12 that no relief holes be cut through that 13 wall that would allow storm water to flow 14 onto our properties to the north. And that 15 the storm water catch basins along this wall 16 be installed. 17 And Mr. Nona has just told me they are 18 going to do that. But here is the letter. 19 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: The letter is 20 part of the record having been read. But I 21 do want to make sure that you do understand 22 that it is out of the scope of the 23 jurisdiction of the Zoning Board of Appeals. 24 MS. TARKEY: I figured it was. But I
107 1 just come to every meeting so we don't end 2 up with what we did before where somebody 3 just put a hill and let the water come in. 4 But he is not going to do that. 5 Then do you need this letter? 6 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: If you care to 7 give it to our Secretary, we would like to 8 include it. 9 MS. TARKEY: But, again, we have no 10 problem, and none of us have a problem with 11 any of the zoning variances that he is 12 requesting. It's a big piece of property. 13 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Are you through, 14 ma'am? 15 MS. TARKEY: Um-hum. 16 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: I am going to 17 close the public hearing, but at this time 18 does the Applicant care to comment further? 19 MR. NONA: I just wanted to say that 20 when this issue was first brought to our 21 attention I went to the site, I looked at it 22 and directed our engineers to take some 23 elevations. And this issue has been taken 24 into consideration in the design and
108 1 engineering plans. And if I were to go and 2 check the engineering plans, I would be 3 happy to share those plans with you. 4 So, we have attempted to put in some 5 catch basins to a piece of the property line 6 to take care of this issue. 7 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Okay, thank you. 8 We have mailed 43 notices and received zero 9 approvals and zero objections. 10 Any comments from the City or Counsel? 11 Oh, our Planner wants to speak. 12 MS. KAPELANSKI: Yes. Just through 13 the Chair. First off, I just wanted to let 14 everyone know that I will talk with our 15 engineer tomorrow about the runoff of storm 16 water comments to make sure he is aware of 17 the issue. 18 And also, I just wanted to 19 reiterate the fact that these variances that 20 are being requested tonight are a result of 21 Paul Bunyan not being vacated. And that in 22 order to keep the street uniform and kind of 23 maintain the look of the Main Street 24 development, the Applicant is requesting the
109 1 variances. 2 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you. 3 MS. KUDLA: I would just like to add 4 that, in the event that the Board is 5 considering granting the variances, a single 6 motion could be made to grant all variances 7 with denial as being considered. You want 8 to consider each individual variance on its 9 own. 10 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you. 11 MS. KUDLA: And grounds for a Motion 12 could be the basis that the variances are 13 necessitated because of the inability to 14 vacate Paul Bunyan Drive. 15 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Is it an 16 inability or is it a decision not to vacate? 17 MS. KUDLA: It was a difficulty. It 18 was not a complete inability. It was a 19 difficulty in determining what would happen 20 to the property after it was vacated. So, 21 at this time it was determined to proceed 22 forward without vacating it. While at the 23 same time we are still considering whether 24 it could be vacated in the future.
110 1 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Okay. Very 2 good. 3 MR. NONA: May I make a comment? 4 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Hold on a 5 second. 6 Any further comments from the City? 7 MS. KUDLA: No. 8 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Go ahead, sir. 9 MR. NONA: As to the issue of the 10 vacation, I know we encountered some 11 difficulties, but we are still in the 12 process right now in negotiations to pursue 13 back the vacation, so I think this is still 14 doable. Very doable, I would say. 15 In the meantime, we did not want to 16 delay the project for that. We are trying 17 to break ground this season. 18 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: I understand. 19 MS. TRAXER: If I may, as a procedural 20 matter, were Paul Bunyan to be vacated it 21 would essentially render most of the 22 variances in this batch moot, I would say. 23 We are trying to cover all the bases, and 24 like Mr. Nona said, before this fall.
111 1 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: To the Planner, 2 is there any of the variances that would not 3 be affected? 4 MS. KAPELANSKI: Yes. Just to 5 confirm, all the variances are a result of 6 Paul Bunyan not being vacated. 7 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you. 8 At this time I will open up it up to the 9 Board for discussion to my left. No one 10 wants to talk about this. 11 Well, I will begin. One of the 12 questions that I would have -- well, the 13 first one is, I didn't know where Paul 14 Bunyan was. Because none of the information 15 we received showed or listed Paul Bunyan on 16 the paperwork. But now that you said that, 17 it actually makes more sense. 18 In looking through all of them. I 19 didn't have any major problems. I did have 20 a question, if a traffic study was done or 21 needed on Paul Bunyan? 22 MR. NONA: A traffic study, a fairly 23 extensive traffic study was done by 24 (Unintelligible). It was fairly extensive.
112 1 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: And the results? 2 MR. NONA: Basically the results, they 3 had some concerns about whether you can make 4 left turns from Memorial, that type of 5 thing. I think most of those issues had 6 been resolved. 7 MS. TRAXER: All of those results were 8 reviewed, I believe, by the Planning 9 Commission when they gave their preliminary 10 approval. 11 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: What is the 12 current speed limit? I assume it's 25, and 13 what would it be once it's completed? 14 MR. NONA: We want it to be as slow as 15 possible. 16 MS. TRAXER: Yes. 17 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Drop down to 15. 18 MR. NONA: Exactly. 19 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: We have no 20 control over that if it's not a public 21 street. Where do we stand on that? 22 MS. KAPELANSKI: Can you repeat that? 23 MR. NONA: No, we want the speed limit 24 to be as slow as possible. These are going
113 1 to be Town Center streets whereby traffic is 2 going on at the same time as pedestrians, so 3 we want traffic to be going very slowly. 4 MS. KUDLA: It would be a city street 5 and it could be considered by the City 6 traffic engineer, the traffic controller 7 (unintelligible). 8 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: As long as it's 9 a dedicated street. Once it's vacated -- 10 MS. KUDLA: Once it's vacated as a 11 private street they have the right to set 12 the speed limit to whatever was appropriate. 13 MR. NONA: By the way, even though we
14 do have some other streets that are 15 technically private, we are providing some 16 kind of an agreement with the city that 17 those all can be used by the public. 18 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Obviously my 19 reason for that question is public safety, 20 walking from a parking building to the 21 adjacent, even though it's a medical 22 building, if they get hit I guess they got 23 somebody to take care of them. 24 Obviously we don't want ever want
114 1 to have any type of accident in the city. 2 MR. NONA: Excuse me, also one of the 3 other requirements was we are trying to also 4 provide a maintenance agreement to the City 5 so that the maintenance of this section of 6 the road would be our responsibility. 7 Because Paul Bunyan doesn't extend all the 8 way. It's only half of that Memorial Street 9 is public and half of it is private. 10 MS. TRAXER: Up to here is public if 11 you can see that. 12 MR. NONA: Up to this point from here 13 to here is public. From here to here is 14 private. 15 MS. KUDLA: The Applicant would have 16 the right to have -- 17 MR. NONA: From here to here is 18 public. That's the only portion. From here 19 to here is private. So, our plan was to 20 basically vacate this so that it's all 21 private and we provide some kind of an 22 agreement for access and what have you, 23 public use. 24 MS. KUDLA: At the request of the
115 1 property owner, the motor vehicle code can 2 be enforced on private property by the City 3 police department. 4 MS. KAPELANSKI: Just to let you know, 5 the traffic consultant would have reviewed 6 all aspects of safety as far as the roads 7 are concerned with geometry of the roads, 8 pedestrian safety, so that would involve a 9 car. 10 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Likewise with 11 the sidewalk, because I do have a concern 12 from cutting back from 12 and a half to 13 seven feet. 14 MS. KAPELANSKI: Our usual streets 15 along public streets we require 5 to 8-foot 16 sidewalks. Residential developments would 17 require 9-foot sidewalks. The Applicant has 18 requested a 11-foot sidewalk, so that would 19 above the usual standards for a residential 20 type street. 21 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you. The 22 only other comment I had on Building 800 and 23 Building 700, one of the comments or one of 24 the discussions was initially to require
116 1 that a two and a half foot brick wall or a 2 landscape berm be placed. And if I remember 3 reading it correctly, you are asking that 4 that be waived as well? 5 MS. TRAXER: I believe that the 6 requirement is is that landscape berm be 7 placed adjacent to the parking area which in 8 this case is just a little. 9 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Can you show us 10 where that is? 11 MS. TRAXER: Yes. Are we speaking 12 along Paul Bunyan here? 13 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Yes. 14 MS. KAPELANSKI: Just to clarify, the 15 Ordinance is very silent on on street 16 parking and doesn't really address it at 17 all. So, the landscaped wall will be 18 required for off street parking and parking 19 in general. But since the Ordinance doesn't 20 address on street parking it would be 21 technically be required bordering the on 22 street parking spaces. 23 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Is required? 24 MS. KAPELANSKI: Yes.
117 1 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: So, we don't 2 have to address that this evening? 3 MS. KAPELANSKI: They would need a 4 variance to say that the screen wall is not 5 required to shield the parking spaces. If 6 they were to meet the requirements, a wall 7 would have to be along the edge of the 8 sidewalk shielding the parking spaces from 9 view. 10 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: And also 11 providing a safety barrier for pedestrians? 12 MS. KAPELANSKI: I think the intent of 13 the Ordinance is not necessarily a safety 14 barrier, but more as a landscape screening 15 aesthetic system. 16 MS. TRAXER: Mr. Chair, if I may. 17 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Yes, ma'am. 18 MS. TRAXER: In urban environments 19 what we are trying to achieve here, and we 20 think the intent of the TC-1 district really 21 is, it's often used to angle on street 22 parking or parallel parking spaces actually 23 serve as their own buffer between moving 24 vehicular traffic and the pedestrian
118 1 traffic. So, while (unintelligible) on this 2 matter, we think that the on street parking 3 stalls would effectively serve the same 4 purpose as that berm or stone wall. 5 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you. I 6 personally like the idea of having a two and 7 a half foot wall. I don't think there is 8 enough room for a berm, but I think the wall 9 would be attractive and actually add to the 10 aesthetics. And actually that's what the 11 intent was of the Ordinance anyway. 12 I don't have any further comments. 13 Member Wrobel? 14 MEMBER WROBEL: Thank you, Mr. Chair. 15 Does our esteem Planner wish to add 16 anything else? I know I sound like Victor. 17 Because I know we talked this to death in 18 the Planning Commission before we sent this 19 out to the ZBA, and were very happy what we 20 came out with. And I just wanted to know if 21 you wanted to add anything else for their 22 benefit? 23 MS. KAPELANSKI: No, I don't have any 24 other comments.
119 1 MEMBER WROBEL: I am quite pleased 2 with this. I can support it. 3 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Other comments? 4 Entertain a Motion? 5 And as the attorney recommended, if 6 we're motioning to approve, let's look at 7 the possibility of all of them. And if we 8 are looking at the possibility of denying 9 something, we need to look at them 10 individually. Or at least the ones that we 11 want to deny individually, and then we lump 12 the rest together for an approval. 13 If we don't get a Motion it's going to 14 die. 15 (Interposing)(Unintelligible) 16 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Last I read by 17 Robert's Rule, I am not allowed to make a 18 Motion, so it's got to be one of you guys. 19 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Why is 20 that? 21 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: I don't know. 22 Why is that? 23 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: I thought 24 the Chair could.
120 1 MS. KUDLA: I don't know. I could 2 suggest a Motion. 3 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: That would be 4 wonderful. If you verbalize it, then maybe 5 somebody will take ownership. 6 MS. KUDLA: I could suggest a Motion 7 that the Board grant the variance in this 8 case sought by Triangle Main Street because 9 the Petitioner has established practical 10 difficulty in complying with the strict 11 letter of the restrictions of the Ordinance. 12 It would unreasonably prevent the use of the 13 property as it has been planned to great 14 detail and approved by the Planning 15 Commission already in its present condition 16 to go back and change these 11 relatively 17 minor items simply based on the fact of the 18 difficulty created by the public versus 19 private road issue. Essentially nothing is 20 changing from approved site plan if the 21 variance is granted. 22 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: That is so moved 23 by Member Wrobel. 24 MEMBER WROBEL: So moved.
121 1 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: I will 2 second it. 3 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: And seconded by 4 Member Fischer. Any further discussion? 5 Seeing none, please call the 6 roll. 7 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: That's what 8 I was trying to think of. 9 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: That's exactly 10 what I had written down, but I didn't think 11 I was allowed to make a Motion. 12 MS. WORKING: Member Wrobel? 13 MEMBER WROBEL: Yes. 14 MS. WORKING: Vice-Chair Fischer? 15 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Aye. 16 MS. WORKING: Member Krieger? 17 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes. 18 MS. WORKING: Chairman Shroyer? 19 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Yes. 20 MS. WORKING: Motion to approve all 11 21 variances passes 4-0. 22 MS. TRAXER: Thank you very much. 23 MR. NONA: Thank you. 24 MEMBER WROBEL: That's why the City
122 1 attorney gets the big bucks. 2 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: That's exactly 3 right. 4 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Mr. Chair, 5 I might also comment on that last case as 6 well one last thing. 7 Can the Zoning Board get a copy of the 8 letter that -- I'm sorry, Violet was her 9 name? 10 MS. WORKING: Yes. 11 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Could we 12 get a copy of her letter maybe in our next 13 packet just as a reference point? We also 14 want to make sure a get copy gets to whoever 15 in the Building Department you may see fit, 16 the Planning Commission as well. 17 (Interposing)(Unintelligible) 18 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: She is the 19 greatest, she will take care of it. 20 (Interposing)(Unintelligible). 21 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: That would 22 be Mr. Hines or whomever if he could get 23 that to the Planning Commission, that would 24 make me greatly happy.
123 1 MS. WORKING: Absolutely. 2 3 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Okay, moving 4 backwards, I believe our Applicant has 5 arrived, so I assume your Mr. Sinkevics? 6 MR. SINKEVICS: Yes, sir. 7 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Please come 8 forward, state your name and address and be 9 sworn in by our Vice Chair. 10 MR. SINKEVICS: Richard Sinkevics, 11 1430 West Lake Drive, Novi, Michigan 48377. 12 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Sir, do you 13 swear to tell the truth regarding Case 14 number: 07-055? 15 MR. SINKEVICS: Yes, sir. 16 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Please state 17 your case. 18 MR. SINKEVICS: My case is, I have a 19 residential home at the address 1430 -- 20 MS. KUDLA: To the Chairman, do you 21 want to give him the opportunity to table 22 this matter? 23 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: I'm sorry, very 24 good. You weren't here for our previous
124 1 discussion. Our Board consist of seven 2 members and we need four to have a quorum, 3 we have four here, so the meeting is 4 official this evening. 5 However, any approval would 6 require an approved vote by all four 7 members. We have been giving the Applicants 8 the opportunity to have their case tabled 9 until the next month or the month after to 10 have an opportunity to present their case in 11 front of a full Board. 12 Would you care to have it tabled for 13 the others, or do you want to move forward 14 and hope that you get all four votes? 15 MR. SINKEVICS: No. I think I will go 16 ahead and move forward and hope that I get 17 all four if possible. 18 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you. 19 Please state your case. 20 MR. SINKEVICS: I had a residence at 21 1430 West Lake Drive. Back in January we 22 broke into the house, into the structure of 23 the house. We had some rotted beams and as 24 it ended up, the whole crawl space is
125 1 completely deteriorated and rotted and it's 2 been cleaned by the insurance company and it 3 collapsed due to unseen rot as we were 4 living in the home. And since then we have 5 been dealing with the insurance company and 6 all kinds of different procedures to get to 7 this point to rebuild this house. 8 The insurance company put us up in a 9 rental property in Novi as well. I have a 10 wife and two children and we are just trying 11 to get this thing knocked down and rebuilt. 12 It's kind of an emergency situation. I 13 myself am a landscape contractor, so I am 14 taking this project on as a homeowner and I 15 do know some contractors in the area. 16 I am trying to get a variance to have 17 the new build sit basically where the 18 existing house is collapsing now sits. The 19 two problems are, one off of West Lake 20 Drive. There is a setback that's 30 feet 21 off of West Lake Drive and also off of 22 Faywood is 30 feet. Where the house sits 23 now is approximately 12 feet off the corner 24 of Faywood and West Lake Drive.
126 1 What I am trying to do is get a 2 variance from 13 some odd feet from West 3 Lake Drive and 13 some odd 5 off of Faywood. 4 I'm trying to keep the general aesthetics of 5 the property in the yard or the back, 6 otherwise my house would be back in the 7 corner 30 feet off of the street which would 8 expose my whole yard to several houses 9 around the whole neighborhood. That is why 10 we have (unintelligible). So, I am trying 11 to keep that back area as my yard area. 12 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: That's it? 13 MR. SINKEVICS: Basically, yeah, 14 that's the nature of the whole thing. 15 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Okay. With this 16 being a public hearing we will open it up to 17 members of the audience. 18 And seeing no one coming forward, 19 we will indicate that 56 notices were
20 mailed. We received three approvals and 21 zero objections. 22 The approvals was from Michelle and 23 James Wood at 1418 West Lake Drive. No 24 comments, but they indicated an approval.
127 1 A Bryan and Becky Kozahin at 1523 West 2 Lake Drive. The comment was: I strongly 3 approve Mr. Sinkevics' variances. His new 4 house will add to the improvement in the 5 area. 6 And the third approval with no 7 comments was from a Raymond C. Ott at 1425 8 West Lake Drive. 9 I guess I didn't close the public 10 hearing. So, the public hearing is closed. 11 Make sure we do that. 12 Is there any comment from the City or 13 Counsel? 14 MS. KUDLA: No comment from Counsel. 15 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Okay. 16 MR. FOX: Just a little bit of 17 clarification. This is very similar to a 18 lot of the other cases that we see along the 19 lake here for a building lot that's very 20 small with two streets on this case where we 21 have a very small building envelope 22 available for this lot. The owner, he 23 didn't state this, but there is an existing 24 detached garage on the property that he
128 1 intended to keep and reuse. So, he won't 2 have any driveways right up adjacent to the 3 street where you only have 12-foot of 4 driveway. He will be reusing a building on 5 site. That's all I have. 6 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you. At 7 this time I will open it up to Board 8 Members. 9 Member Wrobel? 10 MEMBER WROBEL: Looking at the one 11 drawing here. Right down the line over the 12 house, is that the existing house location? 13 MR. SINKEVICS: Can I take a look at 14 that? 15 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: In fact, if you 16 would, please put it on the overhead so our 17 one audience member can view it so she knows 18 what we are talking about as well. Thank 19 you. 20 MR. SINKEVICS: Yes, the red dotted, 21 dashed line is the existing structure. 22 MEMBER WROBEL: Thank you. So, in 23 essence the new footprint you propose you 24 would like if the variances would be
129 1 granted, you would be sitting further back 2 from the road at this point than the 3 existing house was? 4 MR. SINKEVICS: Yes. 5 MEMBER WROBEL: That's all I have, Mr. 6 Chair. 7 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Any other 8 comments? Member Krieger? 9 MEMBER KRIEGER: I would agree with 10 this plan. Thank you. 11 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Comments, Mr. 12 Fischer? 13 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: None. 14 Thank you, Mr. Chair. 15 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: I have none 16 either, other than no objections. In 17 particular since it is not any closer to the 18 road than the existing home. 19 At this point I will entertain a 20 Motion. 21 Member Fischer? 22 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: It is two 23 front yards, is that correct, given the two 24 streets?
130 1 MR. SINKEVICS: Yes. 2 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: I would 3 move that in Case number: 07-055 filed by 4 Richard Sinkevics of 1430 West Lake Drive, 5 that we approve the Petitioner's request as 6 submitted given the practical difficulty 7 shown and the unique configuration of the 8 lot, the lot size and the fact that the home 9 actually has two front yards making the 10 envelope possible for a structure even 11 smaller. 12 MEMBER KRIEGER: Second. 13 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: We have a Motion 14 by Member Fischer and a second by Member 15 Krieger. Any further discussion? 16 Seeing none, please call the 17 roll. 18 MS. WORKING: Vice-Chair Fischer? 19 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER? Aye. 20 MS. WORKING: Member Krieger? 21 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes. 22 MS. WORKING: Chairperson Shroyer? 23 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Yes. 24 MS. WORKING: Member Wrobel?
131 1 MEMBER WROBEL: Yes. 2 MS. WORKING: Motion passes 4-0. 3 MR. SINKEVICS: Thank you very much. 4 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: It's been 5 granted. 6 MR. SINKEVICS: Thank you. 7 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you. 8 MS. WORKING: Glad you could make it. 9 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: I am glad 10 it didn't collapse on you. 11 MR. SINKEVICS: I looked at the 12 website today and it was another meeting 13 tomorrow at the same time at -- 14 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Not a 15 problem. 16 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: This is the 17 important one. 18 (Interposing)(Unintelligible). 19 MR. SINKEVICS: Thank you. 20 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: That ends the 21 public hearings for this evening. 22 We move on to other matters, and one 23 item on other matters is Sub Committee 24 Report. Member Fischer?
132 1 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Thank you, 2 Mr. Chair. 3 First of all, I would like to thank 4 Robin for all of her assistance as usual. 5 She was able to send myself and the other 6 two members much information regarding 7 Bylaws and everything. We are planning to 8 meet Monday, August 13th, to go over that. 9 We will develop an agenda by the end of this 10 week. Myself and the two committee members 11 will have read all the information and be 12 ready to discuss my plan for a response to 13 you by next meeting. 14 We can meet on August 13th. We can 15 meet maybe two weeks thereafter which would 16 be right before our next September 11th, 17 Zoning Board meeting and make any 18 recommendations to the Board. 19 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Thank you. 20 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Thanks 21 again to Robin, how great she is. 22 MS. WORKING: I would like to go on 23 record and say I have not paid Mr. Fischer 24 to make those comments. I do appreciate
133 1 them. 2 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Any other 3 comments? 4 MEMBER WROBEL: I just have a 5 question. What exactly is the Sub Committee 6 going to be looking at? I came in kind of 7 late in the picture. 8 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: In 9 discussions with Mr. Shroyer, there were a 10 couple things that came up regarding the 11 recent law changes. In fact, having you on 12 the Board and the role and responsibility of 13 the alternate as well given those law 14 changes and a couple of other items as well. 15 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Looking at what 16 changes may need to be made to our Bylaws is 17 the primary reason and how it affects our 18 alternate committee member, how it affects 19 the additional member being yourself that 20 has dual membership of the Planning 21 Commission. 22 One of the other things was looking at 23 was the number of meetings that people 24 attend and the requirements centered around
134 1 that. So, we are looking at revising the 2 Bylaws. 3 MEMBER WROBEL: So, it's basically 4 Bylaws? 5 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Yes. 6 MEMBER WROBEL: Okay, thank you. 7 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: And, in 8 fact, you might as well go ahead and send it 9 to the rest of the Board Members the bylaws 10 for their review and recommendations by the 11 second meeting. So, I will do that as well 12 and make sure that everybody has it. And 13 I'll even do that, I won't bother you with 14 that. 15 MEMBER WROBEL: Mr. Wrobel has just 16 received a copy in his welcome aboard 17 packet. 18 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Did Member 19 Wrobel get a copy of the training packet as 20 well? 21 MS. WORKING: Yes, he did. 22 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Very good. 23 MEMBER WROBEL: ZBA Meetings for 24 Dummies by Tom Schultz.
135 1 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: Any other 2 comments by anybody? 3 VICE-CHAIRPERSON FISCHER: Motion to 4 adjourn. 5 MEMBER WROBEL: Second. 6 MEMBER KRIEGER: Third. 7 CHAIRPERSON SHROYER: So moved. 8 Meeting adjourned. 9 (The meeting was adjourned at 10 10:01 p.m.) 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24
136 1 C E R T I F I C A T E 2 3 4 I, Mona L. Talton, do hereby 5 certify that I have recorded 6 stenographically the proceedings had and 7 testimony taken in the above-entitled matter 8 at the time and place hereinbefore set 9 forth, and I do further certify that the 10 foregoing transcript, consisting of (114) 11 typewritten pages, is a true and correct 12 transcript of my said stenographic notes. 13 14 15 16 17 18 _____________________________ 19 Mona L. Talton, 20 Certified Shorthand Reporter 21 22 August 31, 2007 23 24
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