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Proceedings had and testimony taken in the matters of the ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS, at City of Novi, 45175 West Ten Mile Road, Novi, Michigan, Tuesday, January 11 9, 2007.

Mav Sanghvi, Chairman
Tim Shroyer
Gerald Bauer
Justin Fischer
Robert Gatt
Linda Krieger

Don Saven, Building Department
John H. Hines, Deputy Building Official
Shannon K. Ozga, City Attorney
Alan Amolsch, Ordinance Enforcement
Robin Working, ZBA Recording Secretary

Mona L. Talton, Certified Shorthand Reporter.


1 Novi, Michigan

2 Tuesday,

3 January 9, 2007

4 7:30 p.m.

5 - - - - - -

6 MEMBER SANGHVI: I'd like to call to order

7 the January 2007 meeting of the City of Novi

8 Zoning Board of Appeals.

9 Would you please all rise and join me in the

10 Pledge of Allegiance.

11 BOARD MEMBERS: I pledge allegiance to the

12 flag of the United State of America. And to

13 the Republic for which it stands, one

14 nation, under God, indivisible with liberty

15 and justice for all.

16 MEMBER SANGHVI: Ms. Working, would you

17 please call the roll.

18 ROBIN WORKING: Member Canup?

19 Member Fischer?


21 ROBIN WORKING: Member Gatt?


23 ROBIN WORKING: Member Bauer?




1 ROBIN WORKING: Member Sanghvi?


3 ROBIN WORKING: Member Shroyer?


5 MEMBER WORKING: Member Krieger.


7 ROBIN WORKING: Mr. Chairman, everyone

8 present except Member Canup.

9 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. We do have a

10 quorum and the meeting is now in session.

11 I would like to go over the rules

12 of conduct. You can find them on the

13 agenda. Just a friendly reminder, please

14 turn off all your cell phones and pagers.

15 Individual applicants may take five minutes

16 and the groups may take up to ten minutes to

17 address the Board.

18 Zoning Board of Appeals is a

19 Hearing Board empowered by the Novi City

20 Charter to hear appeals seeking variances

21 from the application of the Novi Zoning

22 Ordinances. It takes a Board of at least

23 four members to approve a variance request

24 and the vote of the majority of members



1 present to deny a variance.

2 Tonight we have a full vote so

3 all decisions made will be final.

4 (Unintelligible) Are there any changes on

5 the future that we have?

6 ROBIN WORKING: No changes.


8 MEMBER SHROYER: I wanted to ask because we

9 have in our packet case number 06-083 that

10 has been tabled. Has that been advertised?

11 We probably need to have it tabled now.

12 ROBIN WORKING: Which case is that?

13 MEMBER SHROYER: That's (unintelligible)

14 Novi Retail, LLC.

15 ROBIN WORKING: That case was advertised in

16 November and they have officially been

17 tabled in the February meeting.

18 MEMBER SHROYER: Then do we need to include

19 it in the agenda to grant the tabling?


21 MEMBER SHROYER: I have no additions to the

22 agenda.

23 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you.

24 Anybody else?



1 MEMBER FISCHER: Motion to approve.


3 MR. SAVEN: Just a point of interest. I

4 would like to bring up under other matters a

5 starting time for the ZBA, please, as item

6 number two.

7 MEMBER FISCHER: Motion to approve as

8 amended.


10 MEMBER SANGHVI: Motion has been made and

11 seconded.

12 Would you please call the roll.

13 All in favor please say aye.


15 MEMBER SANGHVI: Okay, (unintelligible). Do

16 we have minutes today?


18 MEMBER SANGHVI: We have minutes.

19 MEMBER BAUER: Move to approve.

20 MEMBER SANGHVI: A Motion has been made to

21 approve the minutes in the November meeting.


23 MEMBER SANGHVI: Motion has been seconded.

24 All those in favor of accepting the minutes



1 as presented please signify by saying aye.


3 MEMBER SANGHVI: All opposed same sign.

4 All right. At this point the

5 meeting is open for public remarks section.

6 Is there anybody in the audience who would

7 like to address the Board and wishes to make

8 comment not pertaining to any matter which

9 is on the agenda today? If anybody would

10 like to please come forward now.

11 Seeing none, we go to public

12 remarks section. And this brings us to the

13 first case on agenda.

14 Case number: 06-091 filed by Brad Wilson of

15 Callison Architecture for 27640 Novi Road

16 Nordstrom located at Twelve Oaks Mall.

17 This case was tabled from

18 December. Is Mr. Wilson here?

19 MR. WILSON: Yes.

20 MEMBER SANGHVI: Would you please come

21 forward. Identify yourself, state your name

22 and address and be sworn by our secretary.

23 MR. WILSON: Thank you. Brad Wilson,

24 Callison 1420 Fifth Avenue, Seattle,



1 Washington 982 -- excuse me, 992.

2 MEMBER BAUER: Raise your right hand. Do you

3 swear or affirm to tell the truth regarding

4 case: 06-091?

5 MR. WILSON: Yes.

6 MEMBER BAUER: Thank you. Go ahead.

7 MR. WILSON: Thank you. Thank you, and I

8 appreciate having us back.

9 I would just like to recap a

10 little bit from the last meeting and go

11 through a few points of our previous

12 proposal and state, review the discussion of

13 points from the ZBA from last meeting and

14 then our new proposal.

15 Previously the variance was

16 requested for the area of 217 square feet

17 for three separate signs at Twelve Oaks,

18 Nordstrom at Twelve Oaks. The sign

19 Ordinance had limited to 65 square feet at

20 which we were proposing a 217 square foot

21 sign -- or excuse me, three 217 square foot

22 signs. Signs composed of individually faced

23 letters and were illuminated and each sign

24 was centered over the entrance way.



1 Regarding the points of

2 discussion from the last ZBA meeting,

3 objections were raised by the neighbor and

4 condominium management companies on behalf

5 of the other residents, which I believe

6 those items were, didn't see any issues with

7 the overall, the ZBA did not see any issues

8 with it.

9 What seemed to be the major point

10 of discussion was the overall sign size.

11 And what we have gone back to and looked at,

12 what we have gone back and looked at was the

13 direction from the Board, looking at

14 reducing the signs. And we have gone back

15 and decided to reduce the size to 195 square

16 feet which the old sign was approximately

17 five feet high by -- excuse me, 43 feet

18 long. And the new signs are 4 foot 9 by

19 approximately 41 feet in the area of

20 195 square feet.

21 This would make, this adjustment

22 would make the sign a full foot, a full one

23 foot three inches smaller than the present

24 signs out at Novi Road at the other existing



1 entrance.

2 The new sign proposal size would

3 align itself very closely with that of the

4 other existing neighbors as I believe one of

5 the Members requested last time around 195,

6 192 square feet.

7 Just to kind of wrap it up, I

8 think Nordstrom, the signs aren't

9 significantly different than what is out

10 there right now, and we hope that the

11 proposal can be put forward and accepted.

12 Thank you.

13 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. Does anyone in

14 the audience wish to address the Board

15 regarding this case?

16 Seeing none, I have informed the

17 Board that 196 notices were mailed, four

18 approval, six objections.

19 Mr. Secretary?

20 ROBIN WORKING: Mr. Chair, if it pleases the

21 Chair, there were no new objections or no

22 new approvals from the meeting last month.

23 MEMBER SANGHVI: This is the same as the

24 last meeting, okay. Thank you. Then we



1 don't need to go into that.

2 All right, then we move on and go

3 to, Building Department, any comments? Yes,

4 Mr. Saven?

5 MR. SAVEN: Mr. Chair, Members of the Board,

6 at the last meeting as you could tell there

7 was so much concern about the number of

8 signs and whatever the size of the sign,

9 what the sign looked like, what have you.

10 As you are aware we do require mock-ups to

11 be placed. The mock-up in this particular

12 case has a white background with the

13 letters. These are individually illuminated

14 letters, the white background certainly

15 makes it look larger than probably what it

16 is.

17 The direction of the Board although not

18 formally is an issue that they looked at as

19 reducing the size of the sign to which they

20 took the Board's advice and they did do

21 this. And the fact is that these are three

22 separate signs which for each individual

23 anchor store within the mall there are three

24 signs, so this is pretty well consistent



1 with what was happening in this particular

2 area.

3 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you, Mr. Saven.

4 I will open up to the Board for

5 discussion now. Yes, Mr. Bauer?

6 MEMBER BAUER: Al, what is Macy's sign?

7 MR. AMOLSCH: You want the size of it?

8 32 feet by 6 feet for 192 square feet.

9 MEMBER BAUER: Thank you.

10 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes, Mr. Fischer?

11 MEMBER FISCHER: As stated before I have no

12 real issue with the three signs. I

13 appreciate and applaud your efforts to bring

14 it down to something we see as more

15 consistent that, certainly not speaking for

16 everyone, but especially for myself,

17 something I see as more consistent with the

18 other stores, so I know it's just kind of

19 last time it was, oh, it's just 20 square

20 feet, but 20 square feet in the principle of

21 everything makes a big difference to me. So

22 I applaud you and appreciate that.

23 I would like to go into the

24 illumination for one second. What is the



1 plans for illumination is this 24/7?

2 MR. WILSON: Currently that's what the plan

3 is. Nordstrom has in the past gone and

4 looked at putting them on a photo timer.

5 They would be off during the hours of

6 probably midnight and 6:00, hours of

7 non-operation.

8 MEMBER FISCHER: I don't know where the

9 Board stands on that, but I drove by the

10 mall this morning 5:00, 5:30 and there were

11 no other anchor stores that had their lights

12 on and that was a little point of contention

13 for me personally. I will see where the

14 Board sits with that issue, see what they

15 have to say. But other than that I have no

16 issues with approving everything else we

17 see.

18 And once again, thank you very

19 much and we look forward to having you guys

20 here.

21 MEMBER SANGHVI: Ms. Krieger?

22 MS. KRIEGER: Thank you, Mr. Chair.

23 I also wanted to thank you for,

24 reiterate, thank you for taking our



1 concerns at heart and reviewing them.

2 And that when I drove by I also see no

3 concern, as we said, it looks much better.

4 And for 195 square feet I would have no

5 difficulty approving that also.

6 And then regarding to light.

7 What time do the other, do some of the other

8 stores turn off their lights?

9 MR. AMOLSCH: The City has no restrictions

10 on the illumination of signs, when they can

11 turn on and when they have to go off. The

12 Board certainly can put that in a Motion for

13 ruling.

14 MS. KRIEGER: Okay. I guess if there was a

15 uniformity of it that we could take into

16 consideration. Then that's all I have.

17 Thank you.

18 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. Yes, Mr.

19 Shroyer?

20 MR. SHROYER: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I too

21 thank you. 195 was the maximum that I said

22 that I would consider so I have to maintain

23 truth to my word.

24 So with that I will be making a Motion in



1 case number: 06-091 filed by Brad Wilson of

2 Callison Architecture for 27640 Novi Road,

3 Nordstrom located at Twelve Oaks Mall. I

4 note to approve all variances to permit

5 three exterior illuminated wall signs not to

6 exceed 195 square feet per sign provided

7 illumination hours of operation is

8 consistent with the other anchor stores.

9 These variances are maintained in

10 consistency in numbers and sizes with the

11 signs of pre-existing anchor stores at the

12 mall and will allow for directional

13 assistance for customers looking for the

14 Nordstrom entrances.

15 MEMBER BAUER: Second.

16 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. The Motion has

17 been made and seconded. Seeing no further

18 discussion, Ms. Working, will the please

19 call the roll.

20 ROBIN WORKING: Member Shroyer?


22 ROBIN WORKING: Member Sanghvi?


24 ROBIN WORKING: Member Bauer?




2 ROBIN WORKING: Member Fischer?


4 ROBIN WORKING: Member Gatt?


6 ROBIN WORKING: Member Krieger?


8 ROBIN WORKING: Motion passes 6-0.

9 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you.

10 MR. WILSON: Thank you. I appreciate your

11 (unintelligible).

12 MR. SHROYER: Welcome to Novi.

13 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you, Mr. Shroyer.

14 And all the best to your business

15 and everything else.

16 MR. WILSON: Thank you.

17 MEMBER SANGHVI: All right, moving on. Case

18 number: 06-095, filed by Triangle Main

19 Street, LLC, for Novi Main Street located

20 east of Novi Road. Are you representing

21 that?

22 MR. JACKSON: Yes, I am. My name is

23 John --

24 MEMBER SANGHVI: Please identify yourself.



1 State your name and address. And if you are

2 not an attorney please be sworn in by our

3 secretary.

4 MR. JACKSON: Okay. My name is John

5 Jackson. I am with McKenna Associates. Our

6 office is in Northville, Michigan.

7 MEMBER BAUER: Do you swear or affirm to

8 tell the truth regarding Case 06-095?

9 MR. JACKSON: I do.

10 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you, sir.

11 MR. JACKSON: Thank you very much. We are

12 here tonight to talk a little bit about this

13 very existing project on Main Street. As

14 you know the project has been through the

15 site planning review process and received a

16 recommendation for approval from the City

17 Council subject to receiving two variances.

18 These variances pertain to the first phase

19 of the project only and that is the office

20 building that is on the corner of Main

21 Street and Novi Road.

22 The two variances, the first

23 variance has to do with the required loading

24 area. According to the City's ordinances



1 the amount of loading is based on the length

2 of the building. According to the formula

3 we would be required to provide over

4 2,300 square feet of loading area which

5 equates to about four or five loading areas

6 -- loading spaces.

7 The fact of the matter is this

8 building is geared primarily to office,

9 medical office in particular, there is a

10 little bit of specialty retail on the first

11 floor. But there is simply not a need for

12 that many loading spaces. So we are

13 proposing a single loading space of

14 approximately 525 square feet. So with that

15 we are asking, and, again, an office use

16 will not have large vehicles. The trucks

17 will be primarily, you know, office supply

18 type trucks and things of a smaller nature.

19 So we don't feel the square footage that is

20 required by the Ordinance is necessary to

21 support the uses that we are proposing in

22 that building.

23 The second variance being

24 requested is along Novi Road. As you know,



1 the Main Street project itself doesn't have

2 a lot of exposure to Novi or Grand River.

3 This is one area of the project that has a

4 lot of exposure and we want to try to take

5 advantage of that by bringing the buildings

6 closer to the street. Essentially we are

7 asking for a ten-foot variance along Novi

8 Road. I will put a detail up here so they

9 can see. Do I need to hit something or is

10 it going to just magically appear? Great.


12 This is Novi Road along the top

13 of the drawing. This is the parking located

14 in front. There is a requirement for

15 20 feet between the parking and the

16 right-of-way. There are areas in here that

17 are less than that. There are some areas

18 that are more than that. But by in large

19 it's about a 10 feet setback between the

20 right-of-way and the parking.

21 And what we are doing to sort of

22 offset that is we are providing a

23 significant amount of landscaping and a

24 decorative wall. You can kind of see right



1 here the knee wall or the screen wall that

2 we are going to provide along that frontage

3 to help create the visual buffer. But we

4 wanted the reduction in order, again, to

5 increase the presence of the building on

6 Novi Road and to sort of begin to introduce

7 that urban fabric that we have along Main

8 Street out on Novi Road and, again, improve

9 the visibility there.

10 So with that we would ask your

11 consideration favorable hopefully for these

12 two relatively minor variances concerning

13 the overall scale of the project. So with

14 that I would be happy to answer any

15 questions.

16 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you.

17 MR. JACKSON: You are welcome.

18 MEMBER SANGHVI: Does anybody in the

19 audience (unintelligible) or comment about

20 this particular case?

21 Seeing none, I will inform the Board that 82

22 notices were mailed, one approval, zero

23 objections.

24 Building Department, any




2 MR. SAVEN: Just to point out that the

3 Planning Department had drafted a letter in

4 regards to their review with a favorable

5 recommendation on August 10th -- excuse me,

6 August 10th, 2006 letter regarding the

7 loading space.

8 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you.

9 I would open it to the Board for discussion.

10 Yes, Mr. Bauer?

11 MEMBER BAUER: The sidewalk will be between

12 that small brick wall and the street?

13 MR. JACKSON: That's right. The sidewalk is

14 within the right-of-way so the sidewalk

15 really isn't impacted by the setback

16 variances being requested.

17 MEMBER BAUER: You would have people walking

18 on that?

19 MR. JACKSON: Yes, they will be walking, the

20 wall will be on one side of them and then

21 the street will be on the other side.

22 MEMBER BAUER: Thank you.

23 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes, Mr. Shroyer?

24 MEMBER SHROYER: Thank you, Mr. Chair. A



1 point of clarification. I want to address

2 to the City or Counsel. I just want to make

3 sure that we have control over TC-1 area in

4 particular since Council extensively

5 reviewed the preliminary site plan and we

6 gave it its blessing. We still do have

7 control over --

8 MR. SAVEN: It's still an Ordinance

9 violation.

10 MEMBER SHROYER: I wanted to make sure of

11 that. That it wasn't (unintelligible) or

12 whatever. So, I wanted to make sure of that.

13 Mr. Jackson, the concerns I have,

14 and it's not going to be a make or break for

15 me at this point. But I want to hear

16 comments from my fellow Board members. The

17 ten dollars -- the ten-foot setback is a

18 concern. Part of the reason is it does

19 prevent any future widening of the street.

20 I do realize that that portion is already a

21 five lane road.

22 MR. JACKSON: Um-hum.

23 MEMBER SHROYER: And as we increase the

24 width of the road going all the way to 10



1 Mile Road it will be consistent. So that's

2 part of the reason I say it's not a make or

3 break type thing, but it is a certain. And

4 I don't know if that was bantered around or

5 discussed very much at your level. If it

6 was, can you please share that information

7 with us.

8 MR. JACKSON: Well, Dave Milanan here might

9 be able to comment on any specific

10 conversations, but, again, the setback is

11 from the existing right-of-way. So if there

12 is any road widening that had to occur in

13 the existing right-of-way, then that

14 obviously could be accommodated. If the

15 right-of-way had to be expanded, more than

16 likely we would lose a row of parking in the

17 front and then parking would have to be

18 picked up someplace on site. So the

19 setback --

20 MEMBER SHROYER: That leads me into the --

21 is it a three story parking garage that is

22 going to be behind it? I believe it's still

23 part of phrase one?

24 MR. JACKSON: Yeah.



1 MEMBER SHROYER: Four hundred plus parking

2 spaces that would offset the loss of the

3 potential road in front if we had to do it

4 and move the site on the other side of the

5 U-haul or whatever.

6 MR. JACKSON: If we lost any parking we

7 would be in a deficit according to the

8 City's --

9 MEMBER SHROYER: Overall plan.

10 MR. JACKSON: Right, the City's standards

11 and the plan.

12 MEMBER SHROYER: Okay. The secondary of

13 course is the extreme reduction of the

14 loading area which basically limits or

15 severely limits actually any other use of

16 the building. I understand the zone retail

17 and office and what have you, and did I hear

18 you correctly when you said that retail

19 would be on the main level and offices on

20 the top three?

21 MR. JACKSON: That's right. And the retail

22 that's is limited, it's primarily catering

23 to the medical oriented offices, you know,

24 medical related supplies and things of that



1 nature, walkers and other. It may have some

2 restaurants on the first floor, a gift shop.

3 MEMBER SHROYER: And there is adequate

4 parking for a restaurant?

5 MR. JACKSON: Yes, all the uses have been

6 laid out according to the shared parking

7 provisions and reviewed repeatedly.

8 MEMBER SHROYER: I'm not concerned about the

9 loading area for the medical and the office

10 because that's just supplies periodically.

11 MR. JACKSON: Right.

12 MEMBER SHROYER: If you get a retail store

13 that has a lot of merchandize coming and

14 going constantly there is a lot of

15 restocking and the size of the truck may

16 vary, etcetera, etcetera.

17 One of the other concerns I have

18 is that even though medical facilities are

19 great in the buildings. As you know there

20 are a lot of medical buildings currently in

21 Novi and now with the large complex that's

22 going to be Providence. You are confident

23 that you are going to be able to bring some

24 business into that facility?



1 MR. JACKSON: Again, that's a question for

2 Mr. Milanan.

3 MR. MILANAN: My name is David Milanan I'm

4 with the Triangle Main Street and

5 Development. Do I need to?

6 MEMBER SANGHVI: Be sworn in. Thank you.

7 MEMBER BAUER: Do you solemnly swear or

8 affirm to tell the truth regarding case:

9 06-095?

10 MR. MILANAN: I do.

11 MEMBER BAUER: Thank you.

12 MR. MILANAN: Thank you. Again, my name is

13 Dave Milanan I'm with Triangle Development

14 which is developing the Main Street project.

15 The medical building is going to be the

16 first phase and, in fact, we have a user for

17 that and it's a group of doctors from

18 Beaumont Hospital. So Beaumont Hospital is

19 going to have their name on it and they are

20 very excited about the project, so...


22 MR. MILANAN: It's not a speculative

23 building for us. But we do have users and,

24 in fact, I think it's going very well as I



1 understand.

2 MEMBER SHROYER: Now, I have read as part of

3 phrase one the building structure to be

4 built as well you are aware in the

5 presentation mentioned that this medical

6 building or office building would be built

7 first. So it's not going to be together?

8 MR. MILANAN: The medical building is going

9 to be built at the same time we are building

10 the parking deck and there is a very good

11 possibility that the building in front of

12 the parking deck is also going to go to be

13 built. We are negotiating with a user who

14 might take that building and then that comes

15 about then we will move ahead. So some

16 good things are happening.

17 MEMBER SHROYER: And did you plan any sky

18 walks between the buildings or anything

19 along that line to allow perhaps --

20 MR. MILANAN: We asked the medical building

21 people if they wanted a sky walk between the

22 medical building and parking deck. They

23 chose not to have one. We are still

24 considering the possibility of having a sky



1 walk between the parking deck and the other

2 building fronting on Main Street.

3 MEMBER SHROYER: Part of the reason I was

4 asking about that is our handicap community

5 I note that all your handicap parking is

6 right in front of the building on the main

7 level, but if your medical up on the second,

8 third, fourth levels if they could park out

9 of inclimate weather in the parking garage

10 and use the walkway to get across or wheel

11 way, you might say, if you use a wheelchair,

12 but that's up for you guys to decide. I was

13 just curious.

14 MR. MILANAN: Well, as I indicated, we gave

15 them that option. We are really not

16 developing it. It's a group of doctors and

17 they have their own architect, but it's

18 being done in conjunction with the overall

19 project.

20 MEMBER SHROYER: Very good. I do want to

21 hear comments from the rest of the Board

22 members in particular about the concerns I

23 have. At this point I am not opposed to

24 anything that is being recommended, but I do



1 want to hear comments.

2 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you, Mr. Shroyer.

3 Anybody else? Mr. Gatt?

4 MEMBER GATT: I have no problem with the

5 loading space variance that you guys are

6 requesting. I think that the facility as

7 it's going to be used that's really not

8 going to become an issue, a major issue at

9 least. I was a little hesitant about the

10 ten-foot variance until you guys described

11 the wall that was going to be put there.

12 Really the big thing I was thinking if there

13 is a major accident right there they are

14 going to run into people in your parking

15 lot, but that wall and the look, the overall

16 look I think the safety concern and the

17 overall look will look very nice. I don't

18 really find myself concerned with the road

19 expanding to a seven lane road any time in

20 the extremely near future.

21 So I have no problem with either

22 of these variances now that we have gotten

23 to discuss this with you guys. So I am

24 prepared to vote yes for both of these.



1 Thank you.

2 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. I just have one

3 question for the Building Department or

4 somebody to enlighten me. Where is this new

5 overpass over the railroad crossing on Novi

6 Road going to end up on the north side?

7 MR. SAVEN: That I couldn't tell you. I

8 still think it's in the planning stage right

9 now.

10 MEMBER SANGHVI: It's still in the planning

11 stage so you don't know what kind of impact

12 that could have on (unintelligible).

13 MR. SAVEN: I don't believe it's going to

14 have an impact strictly because of the fact

15 is the elevation at the railroad track

16 versus what the overpass is going to be

17 like, the height of the overpass there is

18 plenty enough road to make it work.

19 MEMBER SANGHVI: Very good. Thank you.

20 Yes, Mr. Fischer?

21 MEMBER FISCHER: You caught me in between a

22 drink there. I promise it's water.


24 MEMBER FISCHER: I appreciate the comments.



1 I enjoy having someone who has been on the

2 Planning Commission on the Zoning Board

3 because I think you bring a lot of great

4 points, so I appreciate your comments, Mr.

5 Shroyer. Thank you very much for those.

6 I especially appreciate the

7 concerns regarding the ten-foot setback from

8 Novi Road, but I believe that those have

9 been met. I was quite concerned about the

10 expansion too not so much that we might go

11 to seven or nine or eleven lanes, but even

12 the possibility of putting some type of

13 island in there or something. But it seems

14 as though we would have some type of relief

15 should that ever become necessary.

16 As far as the loading, I agree as

17 far as that Ordinance goes. I read

18 somewhere in our packet that that might be

19 being looked at currently anyway. Can you --

20 MR. SAVEN: I believe so.

21 MEMBER FISCHER: Can you provide any more

22 than that?

23 MR. SAVEN: No comment where it's at right

24 now.



1 MEMBER FISCHER: No comment on where it's

2 at?

3 MR. SAVEN: That's correct.

4 MEMBER FISCHER: But it might be being

5 looked at?

6 MR. SAVEN: I know that it is, yes.

7 MEMBER FISCHER: So obviously

8 somewhere in the City it appears that we

9 need to look at that Ordinance and review

10 it. So my comments would be supporting both

11 Mr. Gatt and Mr. Shroyer. Thank you, Mr.

12 Chair.

13 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you, Mr. Fischer.

14 Yes?

15 MR. SAVEN: With everybody being free of

16 their comment I do have a comment.

17 MEMBER SANGHVI: Go ahead, please.

18 MR. SAVEN: I would prefer all the rest of

19 the Board members speak first.

20 MEMBER SANGHVI: I think (unintelligible).

21 MR. SAVEN: Okay. Mr. Chairman, Board, I

22 would like to just bring to your attention

23 two issues here. Number one, please take

24 into consideration the magnitude of this



1 project. This is something that is not just

2 going to be one building, but it's going to

3 be many buildings as part of the site plan

4 is concerned. There is a provision in the

5 Ordinance that talks about a building permit

6 is to be taken within 90 days of the

7 approval process and even after final site

8 plan approval or 30 days after final site

9 plan approval. But based upon the magnitude

10 of the project and taking a look at the

11 projection, whatever, I would request that

12 should the Board decide to approve this

13 variance, that they add at least a one year

14 extension to that particular provision so

15 that we are not going to be bouncing back

16 and forth here for the whole entire project

17 as we are going through the project.

18 And second, there was a letter

19 that was drafted by the one of the previous

20 owners of Novi Auto Parts and Dan's Auto

21 Repair and Tommy's Tire which was part of

22 your packet talking about the concern of the

23 drainage which is going in that particular

24 direction. I would ask that the Board just



1 have the applicant look into this matter and

2 please get with the people or whatever

3 regarding what they plan on doing for that

4 particular issue.

5 It has been a concern in that

6 area for a while. So it's part of a

7 planning process I'm sure in engineering,

8 but just to be sure that that is the concern

9 and it should be addressed.

10 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you, Mr. Saven.

11 MEMBER BAUER: Does the applicant have a

12 copy of this?

13 MR. SAVEN: I believe the applicant does

14 have a copy of that.

15 MR. MILANAN: In this particular letter I

16 haven't seen but we were familiar with some

17 of the concerns about a drainage.

18 MR. SAVEN: That is correct.

19 MEMBER BAUER: You can keep this copy.

20 MR. MILANAN: Thank you.

21 MEMBER SANGHVI: Okay, (unintelligible).

22 And if there is no further discussion, the

23 Chair will entertain a Motion.

24 Yes, Mr. Fischer?



1 MEMBER FISCHER: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I

2 would move that the Board approve the

3 requests in Case Number: 06-095 filed by

4 Triangle Main Street, LLC, for Novi Main

5 Street located at Novi and Grand River, near

6 Novi and Grand River. Given the fact that

7 the Petitioner has established the elements

8 of practical difficulty. That this request

9 is not based on circumstances generally in

10 the area, but it is unique to the property.

11 That the failure to grant will unreasonably

12 prevent or limit the use of the property.

13 And that the grant of relief will not result

14 in a use or structure that is incompatible

15 with or unreasonable or interferes with

16 adjacent or surrounding properties.

17 I would also like to note as part

18 of my Motion that part of the plan review of

19 the prelaminarly site plan from August 10th,

20 2006 states that the Planning Department is

21 in support of the requests.

22 And I would also find that the Petitioner

23 has established that there will be limited

24 retail which ties into the fact of the lower



1 proposed loading space. The fact that Novi

2 Road is already expanded to five lanes.

3 And, lastly, that these variances are

4 consistent with the site plan for the

5 development and also with that of the master

6 plan for the City of Novi.

7 Lastly, I would request that the

8 Petitioner address the concerns in the note

9 to the Zoning Board of Appeals and get with

10 that person who had some concerns.


12 And lastly, I would allow for this variance,

13 a permit to be pulled through July 31st,

14 2008.

15 MR. SAVEN: For the extension of the

16 approval?

17 MEMBER FISCHER: Extension of the approval

18 July 31st, 2008.

19 MEMBER BAUER: Second the Motion.

20 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. The Motion has

21 been made and seconded.

22 ROBIN WORKING: Did Mr. Bauer

23 second?




1 ROBIN WORKING: Thank you.

2 MEMBER FISCHER: Did you want me

3 to repeat that or?

4 ROBIN WORKING: No, I got it.

5 MEMBER SANGHVI: If there is no further

6 discussion, Ms. Working, please call the

7 roll.

8 ROBIN WORKING: Member Fischer?


10 ROBIN WORKING: Member Bauer?


12 ROBIN WORKING: Member Gatt?


14 ROBIN WORKING: Member Krieger?


16 ROBIN WORKING: Member Shroyer?


18 ROBIN WORKING: Member Sanghvi?


20 ROBIN WORKING: Motion passes 6-0.

21 MEMBER SANGHVI: Congratulations.

22 MR. JACKSON: Thank you very much.

23 MEMBER SANGHVI: God speed and good luck.

24 MR. JACKSON: Thank you.



1 MEMBER SANGHVI: Moving on. The next case

2 is number: 06-096 filed by Phil Venables of

3 Accent Signs for Ellison Technologies

4 located at 29050 Cabot. Will you please

5 identify yourself and --

6 MR. VENABLES: My name is Phil Venables. I'm

7 with Accent Signs, again, on behalf of

8 Ellison Technologies. As you got the plans

9 I think and you've seen pictures of the

10 building. We put a markup on the building

11 for you all to see. I hope you had an

12 opportunity to take a look at it. Showing

13 the position of the sign --

14 MEMBER SANGHVI: Excuse me. Are you an

15 attorney?

16 MR. VENABLES: No, I'm not.

17 MEMBER SANGHVI: All right. Would you

18 please be sworn in by our secretary.

19 MEMBER BAUER: Do you swear or affirm to

20 tell the truth regarding case: 06-096?

21 MR. VENABLES: I do.

22 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. Go ahead.

23 MR. VENABLES: As I was saying, the

24 situation is such the building is situated



1 on a graduated curb, it's not a smooth curb

2 or a grade (unintelligible) curb. And

3 pardon me if I am a little out of it today,

4 I am drugged up on cold medicines, my head

5 is not too sharp today. So the building as

6 I said is on a curb and this building is

7 occupied by two tenants. The tenant is

8 concerned, Ellison tenant is concerned that

9 as the traffic is approaching the facility

10 because there is this periods of the day

11 where the traffic is significant in front of

12 the building, there is concern that there

13 may be stuck with traffic incidents if they

14 are not visible from the street the building

15 does sit back a significant distance from

16 the road.

17 That's the one of their biggest

18 concerns.

19 MEMBER SANGHVI: All right. Thank you. Is

20 there anybody in the audience who would like

21 to address the Board regarding this case?

22 Seeing none, Building Department? Mr.

23 Amolsch?

24 MR. AMOLSCH: Just for Board clarification



1 the issue here is that the applicant is

2 asking for a second sign on a building that

3 only have one entrance. Multi tenant

4 buildings are allowed a sign for each tenant

5 if they have a direct separate entrance.

6 What they are asking for is they can either

7 share a 65 square feet sign for the building

8 or just have the one sign. So what they are

9 asking for is a variance to that, not having

10 a direct separate entrance.

11 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. We had sent, 90

12 notices were mailed, zero approvals, zero

13 objections.

14 Okay, opening to the Board? Yes,

15 Mr. Bauer?

16 MEMBER BAUER: Al, have they already right

17 now exceeded the square footage necessary?

18 MR. AMOLSCH: The sign they currently have

19 on the building is 40 square feet.

20 MEMBER BAUER: Okay, thank you.

21 MEMBER SANGHVI: Okay. Yes, Ms. Krieger?

22 MEMBER KRIEGER: I noticed that the Ellison

23 sign was more difficult to see than the Mori

24 Seiki -- if I said that correctly -- sign,



1 and was the intention just for the Mori

2 Seiki or to also have the Ellison there

3 coming to one drive?

4 MR. VENABLES: No, the markup is sized in

5 accordance not to exceed the -- does it say

6 any square feet on it? The total that you

7 would normally allow for it with multiple

8 entrances, made sure that that sign did not

9 exceed that total. So we didn't want to

10 encroach on that as well. It's white on

11 white which makes it certainly difficult.

12 When the colors are introduced to the sign,

13 they're not white, but when the colors are

14 introduced to the sign then it would be more

15 visible.

16 MEMBER KRIEGER: Okay, thank you.

17 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes, Mr. Shroyer?

18 MEMBER SHROYER: Thank you, Mr. Chair.

19 Mr. Amolsch, I see a citation was

20 issued. What was that for?

21 MR. AMOLSCH: A citation?

22 MEMBER SHROYER: According to the

23 information we received, item six is your

24 appeal case notice for violation of --



1 MR. AMOLSCH: There is no violation.

2 MEMBER SHROYER: There is no violation?

3 MR. AMOLSCH: They applied for a permit

4 application and they were denied based on

5 the Ordinance. There was no violation.

6 MEMBER SHROYER: Okay. A lot of them we see

7 that shows denied and are checked no in that

8 box. So I thought perhaps this was

9 separate.


11 MEMBER SHROYER: Okay, Thank you. And to

12 the applicant, when you wrote the appeal it

13 says the appeal is based upon the following

14 grounds. Please attach second page

15 necessary. The building is setback a great

16 distance from the road and is on a gradual

17 curb. The building is shared approximately

18 half and half by two companies. The

19 building was designed aesthetically with

20 only one entrance, however, and then you say

21 certain periods of the day high --

22 MR. VENABLES: I was discussing the traffic

23 issues and I, somehow that managed to miss

24 the rest of the application. I apologize



1 for that. It was regarding the traffic at

2 certain times of the day does get fairly

3 high and that's the issue that they are

4 concerned about. There are visitors to and

5 from the building even during those peak

6 periods and those are the times that they

7 are afraid of accidents and so forth and

8 safety issues that occur, that could occur,

9 you know, like passing and missing the thing

10 and trying to stop in the middle of the road

11 and that sort of thing.

12 MEMBER SHROYER: Missing the area would be

13 something like high volume traffic?

14 MR. VENABLES: That's correct. I apologize

15 for that.

16 MEMBER SHROYER: No, problem. I just wanted

17 to get clarification on it. And how did we

18 come to the point where there are two

19 tenants in the building when it was built

20 with one entrance, was it originally for one

21 tenant and it couldn't be -- the one

22 tenant -- you didn't get a tenant large

23 enough --

24 MR. VENABLES: I would have to assume that



1 was the case. I would have to consult with

2 the builder, but that probably would be

3 logical to be the case. Right now it works

4 out very well as a two tenant unit, I can't

5 imagine how they would ever get anybody else

6 in there. It's just configured nicely for

7 two. One certainly could have been in there

8 at some point.

9 MEMBER SHROYER: And because of aesthetics

10 there is no anticipation at this time of

11 creating a second entrance?

12 MR. VENABLES: Without doing some

13 significant architectural changes to the

14 building I don't know how you would work

15 effectively to do it. Without taking, you

16 know -- I mean, you get into a question of

17 aesthetics, you want to hack a building up

18 to make it look with an extra entrance just

19 to meet the sign ordinance, I think that's

20 --

21 MEMBER SHROYER: No, no, no, that wasn't the

22 reason for that.

23 MR. VENABLES: Okay.

24 MEMBER SHROYER: That's all I have, Mr.



1 Chair. Thank you.

2 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. Thank you very

3 much.

4 Yes, Mr. Gatt?

5 MEMBER GATT: Mr. Amolsch, if you were to

6 take this sign that they are asking for and

7 the sign that's currently existing and you

8 were to put them together into one sign they

9 would be within the Ordinance?

10 MR. AMOLSCH: Possibly, I don't have those

11 figures. The Ordinance allows them to have

12 65 square feet for the building. They can

13 divvy that up whichever way they want to

14 within the square foot parallel.

15 MR. VENABLES: In answer to your question, I

16 purposely designed the Ellison signs to do

17 that so it would not exceed the 65 square

18 feet.

19 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes, Mr. Fischer?

20 MEMBER FISCHER: Have you considered putting

21 the two signs in one?

22 MR. VENABLES: Well, that's always a

23 possibility. Now the situation is you take

24 a building that's extremely lineal and quite



1 attractive and do you take the signs, do we

2 jam the two signs over the center entrance

3 or something? And then you have got a mumbo

4 jumbo of two signs stacked on top of each

5 other. Or do you -- that's the problem.

6 You stack them together so all the letters

7 become not readable?

8 Right now it's a pleasant design,

9 the building architecturally certainly. And

10 I think graphically as well if it's done on

11 a balanced basis. It's a question of

12 balance. I don't know that putting them

13 together --

14 MEMBER FISCHER: It might appear as one

15 business almost too?

16 MR. VENABLES: Well, possibly, yeah.

17 MEMBER FISCHER: Regarding the general

18 characteristics of this area, do we have

19 many buildings in this area that only have

20 one entrance and have two tenants, is that a

21 common theme in that campus?

22 MR. AMOLSCH: There are several different

23 types of buildings in that site or in that

24 area. Some of them are multi tenant with



1 separate direct entrances. Many of them are

2 a little larger office buildings. To help

3 the Board in deliberation, the recent sign

4 Ordinance attempted to handle this problem

5 by allowing the second sign on a building

6 with over 40,000 square feet. This building

7 does not meet the 40,000 square foot limit

8 so the Ordinance Review Committee tried to

9 prevent these type of things coming before

10 the Board. So it's (unintelligible) to

11 allow that kind of a second sign, but the

12 building is not qualified square footage

13 wise.

14 MEMBER FISCHER: Where are we at as far as

15 square feet go?

16 MR. VENABLES: I couldn't tell you.

17 MR. AMOLSCH: The number is 9,000 on the

18 building permit.

19 MEMBER FISCHER: We are not sure?

20 MR. SAVEN: No.

21 MR. VENABLES: It's significant. It's not

22 40,000.

23 MEMBER FISCHER: You guys are

24 split 50/50; is that correct?



1 MR. VENABLES: That's correct.

2 MEMBER FISCHER: I would be -- I'm very

3 hesitant to support this given the recent

4 review of the Ordinance and that we have

5 looked at this and I don't want to open too

6 many flood gates. But I think a determining

7 factor for me is that it is 50/50. If we

8 were looking at a building here that had 80,

9 75, 90 percent of one tenant and now a

10 tenant that only has 15 percent of the

11 building wants a full second sign I would

12 have a bit of a problem. But given the fact

13 that we have two tenants sharing equally in

14 this building, I think it's almost unfair

15 that one would get a sign and one wouldn't.

16 So, despite the attempt to fix

17 this through the recent Ordinance, I feel

18 that this still is a bit of an inadequacy

19 and I would be willing to support. Thank

20 you, Mr. Chair.

21 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you.

22 Yes, Mr. Bauer?

23 MEMBER BAUER: Do you happen to have the

24 building owner approval?



1 MR. VENABLES: Yes, I do.

2 MEMBER BAUER: Do we --

3 MR. VENABLES: Northern Equities is the --


5 MR. VENABLES: Northern Equities, Brian

6 Hughes is the --

7 MEMBER BAUER: We should have a copy of

8 that.

9 MR. VENABLES: We'll get that for you.

10 MEMBER BAUER: Thank you.

11 MEMBER FISCHER: You should make that part

12 of the Motion.

13 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes. I just wanted to make

14 my own comments for the record. This is a

15 long lineal building with north wing and a

16 south wing with two separate businesses even

17 though they have a single entrance for

18 aesthetic reasons and I don't see any reason

19 why they can't have a second sign on the

20 wall for the second business being such a

21 large building as it is. So I have no

22 hesitation myself personally in supporting

23 this application. Thank you.

24 Yes, Mr. Shroyer?



1 MEMBER SHROYER: Since the Chairman supports

2 it I will make a Motion. In case number:

3 06-096 filed by Phil Venables.

4 MR. VENABLES: Close.

5 MEMBER SHROYER: Of Accent Signs for Ellison

6 Technologies located at 29050 Cabot, I move

7 to approve the request for variance to allow

8 an additional 24.98 square foot maximum wall

9 sign due to the fact that the sign meets the

10 (unintelligible) size of the building in the

11 zone that has multiple entrances. In other

12 words, the 65 square foot combination of the

13 two signs.

14 And B, that was A. B, the

15 building is shared equally by two

16 individuals in separate companies that need

17 to be identified. And by that I want to

18 state that if the tenants change and there

19 is a different percentage, it needs to come

20 back to the Board for re-review.

21 Let's see here, and, C, the ZBA does have

22 the authority to grant variance relief based

23 upon the following affirmative findings,

24 practical difficulty that apply in this



1 instance. One, failure to grant relief will

2 unreasonably limit the use of the property

3 and will result in substantially more than a

4 mere inconvenience and ability to attain a

5 higher financial return.

6 And, two, that the grant of the relief will

7 not result in a use or structure that is

8 incompatible with or unreasonably interferes

9 with adjacent or surrounding properties,

10 will result in substantial justice being

11 done to both the applicant or adjacent or

12 surrounding properties is not inconsistent

13 with the spirt or the intent of the Zoning

14 Ordinances, provided that written approval

15 is obtained from the owner and provided to

16 the City prior to the final approval.


18 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. Motion has been

19 made and seconded.

20 Any further discussions? Seeing

21 none. Yes, Mr. Amolsch?

22 MR. AMOLSCH: Before I mentioned something

23 about square footage aiming for a future

24 tenant, are you limiting this variance to



1 this Petitioner only then?

2 MR. VENABLES: Yes, sir.

3 MR. AMOLSCH: Thank you.

4 MEMBER SANGHVI: All right. Ms. Working,

5 will you please call the roll.

6 ROBIN WORKING: Member Shroyer?


8 ROBIN WORKING: Member Krieger?


10 ROBIN WORKING: Member Sanghvi?


12 ROBIN WORKING: Member Bauer?


14 ROBIN WORKING: Member Fischer?


16 ROBIN WORKING: Member Gatt?


18 ROBIN WORKING: Motion passes 6-0.

19 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. (Unintelligible)

20 MR. VENABLES: Thank you. We will get

21 approval for you right away. Thank you very

22 much.

23 MEMBER SANGHVI: All right. Case number --

24 Next case, Case number: 06-097 filed by Joe



1 Bennett of ITC Holdings for ITC

2 Transmissions Corporate Headquarters.

3 Are you, Mr. Bennett? Yes, I am Joe

4 Bennett. I am an employee of ITC Holdings

5 located at 39500 Orchard Mill Place, Suite

6 200 in Novi.

7 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. Will you be

8 sworn in by our secretary, please.

9 MEMBER BAUER: Do you swear or affirm to

10 tell the truth regarding Case: 06-097?

11 MR. BENNETT: I do.

12 MEMBER BAUER: Thank you.

13 MEMBER SANGHVI: Please make your

14 presentation.

15 MR. BENNETT: ITC is proposing a new

16 headquarters at a site we currently own. We

17 have our Quaker substation site there. It's

18 between Haggerty which is down here and 12

19 Mile Road here, and it's off the M-5

20 corridor.

21 I would just like to give you a

22 little background on ITC and the reasons for

23 this project. And then I will turn it over

24 to our civil engineer, Jim Butler, from TEA



1 to go over the details of the variances that

2 we are asking for.

3 ITC is a rapidly expanding electric utility

4 and we have quickly outgrown our current

5 facilities at Orchard Hill Place. Partly

6 due to the recent acquisition of a

7 transmission company, Michigan Electric

8 Transmission Company on the west side of the

9 state.

10 With that acquisition we now own

11 and operate all of the, pretty much all of

12 the transmission system in the lower part of

13 Michigan. And the high voltage transmission

14 system that we operate is large transmission

15 wires and large substations that basically

16 move bulk power across the system. The

17 Consumers Energy and Detroit Edisons are

18 still in place and they are still the

19 companies that actually generate the power

20 and serve the customers. We are kind of the

21 middle man between the generation and the

22 distribution, so we kind of help move large

23 quantities of power.

24 One of our substations is



1 actually on this site, the Quaker

2 substation. We have a number of substations

3 throughout Michigan and a lot of the

4 transmission lines as I said that you see on

5 the towers, metal towers are ours.

6 With our recent growth we have

7 been forced to move a number of our

8 employees out of Novi because of the, just

9 our rapid expansion. Just to give you an

10 idea of how quickly we have grown, in less

11 than four years our company started four

12 years ago with 38 employees and we are now

13 up to about 300 employees and contractors

14 and we don't anticipate that growth changing

15 any time soon which is part of the reason we

16 are actually looking at building a second

17 building down the road. So for efficiency

18 and cohesiveness our CEO has made it clear

19 that he wants all the employees in one

20 location. And that location is Novi.

21 We are also looking at building a command

22 center which would actually be attached to

23 the back of the office building. This

24 building will house our 24-hour, seven day a



1 week operation where we basically manage the

2 transmission grid, do the switching and

3 tagging and make sure the system stays up

4 and running so there is no blackouts in the

5 system. It's a very critical building to our

6 business.

7 We currently have about 200

8 employees here in Novi and when we have this

9 building complete we plan to immediately

10 bring another 100 in here. The building is

11 going to be designed for 450, the first

12 building, so we will have a lot of potential

13 to grow and we actually expect that we will

14 probably be well over the 300 by the time we

15 move in hopefully in about a year and a half

16 if all goes well.

17 We will be bringing engineers

18 that design and maintain the transmission

19 assets. The operation group as I indicated

20 monitors the transmission system and then a

21 lot of the corporate support functions,

22 legal, finance and what have you.

23 So, I just want to say it's been

24 great being here in Novi for the last couple



1 of years and we hope to maintain a good

2 relation with the City of Novi and stay here

3 for many years to come.

4 So, with that I guess I will just turn it

5 over to Jim who will walk through the five

6 variances that we are looking for your

7 approval on.

8 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you.

9 MR. BUTLER: Good evening. My name is Jim

10 Butler with Professional Engineering.

11 MEMBER SANGHVI: Would you be sworn in?

12 Thank you.

13 MEMBER BAUER: Do you solemnly swear or

14 affirm to tell the truth regarding case:

15 06-097?

16 MR. BUTLER: Yes.

17 MEMBER BAUER: Thank you.

18 MEMBER SANGHVI: Please go ahead.

19 MR. BUTLER: As Joe has pointed out this is

20 an 83 acre site located along M-5, Novi

21 Road, Haggerty Road and 96. It comprises

22 three parcels that will be combined as a

23 part of this. Joe had also mentioned that

24 there is an existing substation on the site



1 here. It is accessed currently from

2 Haggerty Road. There is a paved access.

3 The site plan is for two

4 buildings, two six story office towers in

5 these locations. This is building one, this

6 is building two. There are two parking

7 decks. This will be parking deck number

8 one. And this will be parking deck number

9 two.

10 The site will access from 12 Mile

11 Road along the serpentine drive to the

12 parking deck. The first office tower is a

13 six story building and in accordance with

14 the City's Ordinance we are required to have

15 a setback of approximately 188 feet in this

16 direction. Currently we have 77 feet, so we

17 are asking for a variance of 111 feet and

18 that's from this corner right here.

19 It should be noted that the Novi

20 Research Building, the proximity of that

21 building from here to that first office

22 tower is approximately 500 feet. So we

23 don't feel that this setback variance

24 request will be detrimental to the adjacent



1 building since it is 500 feet away.

2 The second request is for a guard

3 shack. Due to the nature of the business

4 that ITC does it's very sensitive high

5 security stuff. So we do have a guard shack

6 located in this location. People will enter

7 and exit the site from it, from 12 Mile

8 Road. In accordance with the Ordinance it's

9 an accessory building. It is located in the

10 front yard, and given the fact there are

11 many front yards, it's kind of difficult to

12 not have a variance for this accessory

13 building.

14 The third request is for the

15 dumpster. The dumpster is located in this

16 area right here. It is, again, in a side

17 yard setback. I should be noted that that

18 dumpster and its relationship to the

19 existing Novi Research Park Building is

20 approximately 400 feet.

21 The fourth request is actually two requests

22 wrapped in one. The Novi standards for a

23 major road. This is noted and defined as a

24 major road in accordance with the Ordinance.



1 The road will only service ITC employees,

2 visitors. We are proposing to have parking

3 along this road in a couple of locations,

4 and also there is a driveway here and here

5 that is less than the standard of 100 feet.

6 Given the fact that it is just for the

7 purposes of ITC we feel that a variance is

8 warranted for that.

9 And, finally, the last request is

10 for a setback. The driveway in this

11 location right here is approximately 10 feet

12 from the property line. The Ordinance

13 requires it being 20 feet and, again, the

14 distance from there to the adjacent building

15 is about 440 feet. So with that, I close my

16 presentation and if you have any questions I

17 would be happy to answer them.

18 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. Is there

19 anybody in the audience who would like to

20 address the Board regarding this case?

21 Please come to the podium, please.

22 MEMBER FISCHER: Mr. Chair, and if anyone

23 else maybe is going to make comments if they

24 want to kind of line up.



1 MEMBER SANGHVI: That may be a good idea.

2 If there is more than one person here who

3 would like to make a comment would you

4 please come join around here.

5 Sir, will you please identify yourself.

6 MR. WHITEGG: My name is Thomas Whitegg.

7 MEMBER SANGHVI: And your address?

8 MR. WHITEGG: And my one question that I

9 would like to ask these gentleman here, as

10 we noted we got the wetlands there -- did I

11 do that? We have the wetlands, you are not

12 going to destroy these wetlands are you?

13 Please tell me that you are not?

14 MEMBER SANGHVI: At this point you have a

15 question?

16 MR. BUTLER: Yes, this 83 acre site contains

17 a variety and sizable wetlands. The biggest

18 ones being up here on 12 Mile Road and also

19 in this location. There are other pockets

20 throughout the site. We do have an

21 application with the Michigan Department of

22 Environmental Quality to fill in

23 approximately a half an acre of wetlands.

24 There are some small pockets here, here,



1 here. And obviously to get an access into

2 the site off of 12 Mile we have to do some

3 building. We will be mitigating for those

4 areas and the mitigation area will be in

5 here.

6 MR. WHITEGG: Now as far as the one lake,

7 the lake that is along the M-5, 12 Mile exit

8 right there, you are not going to be

9 destroying that area, are you?

10 MR. BUTLER: No, we are not going to be

11 destroying that. Our storm water will be

12 treated in pretreatment basins and

13 discharged into that lake.

14 MR. WHITEGG: Because I actually, I live

15 right by the woods there, right by that area

16 and my main concern is destroying the

17 woodland and the wetlands and so forth. But

18 from what I am seeing here it's gonna be

19 actually not right on top of us.

20 MR. BUTLER: No, we will not --

21 MR. WHITEGG: My concern is actually with

22 the wetland. I love the wetlands, you know.

23 This is one of the things we do here in

24 Novi, we preserve the wetlands.



1 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you, sir.

2 MR. WHITEGG: Okay, thank you.

3 MEMBER SANGHVI: Anybody else? Please come

4 along, identify yourself, your name and

5 address.

6 MR. BURNETT: My name is James Burnett. I

7 have lived in Novi since '73. I'm also

8 concerned that the wetlands to this, which

9 when the road comes through and throws in

10 their drain pipes, their electric pipes,

11 their gas pipes they're going to dig through

12 ground which will actually affect all of

13 this wetlands. The pond is at one time

14 could be considered almost a lake. It's a

15 good size, 10 acre or more. The woodlands

16 are going to be destroyed. Five hundred

17 trees they are going to take down and not

18 counting the smaller trees which they are

19 going to just plow under. This pond really

20 isn't big enough for what they want to do

21 and they are showing you this by asking for

22 these variances.

23 To put a guard shack in the front

24 which is just open for other businesses



1 which it says here, in no way will you put

2 in guard shacks in buildings in the front

3 yard, they want that. They want their

4 variances. They should be checked out more

5 by the fire department because they were

6 built for, these Ordinances were built for

7 safety. Now to move your dumpster and to

8 move your -- having parking in certain

9 areas, that's going to impede the fire

10 department doing their duties in which they

11 try to come if ever they have to help these

12 buildings or something.

13 But the land itself to me is something that

14 should be preserved in this community. We

15 have a lot of areas that have been

16 designated for building on the west side of

17 M-5 all the way down to Meadowbrook it's

18 ready. From 12 Mile to 14 it's ready. But

19 this property here is virgin land. It's all

20 wetlands. Right now it's being approached

21 on the other side of Ruby Tuesday with a new

22 piece of property which is approaching the

23 wetlands. They are building it up about

24 eight feet. And what they are going to do



1 to the wetlands is unknown.

2 The wetlands run all through that

3 area. This here to me once they start

4 cutting into the grounds and bringing in

5 their gas lines and sewer lines you can't

6 replace this with a million dollars even

7 though this is a million dollar project, you

8 cannot replace this with the money they want

9 to put in here. This is something that

10 can't be replaced with money.

11 So even though they want to build

12 their building there, we have land in Novi,

13 it can acquire them. But this piece needs

14 to be preserved by Novi. That's my

15 statement.

16 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. Thank you, sir.

17 MS. LOT: My name is Barbara Lot. I reside

18 at Country Cousins Village. Did you want me

19 to swear an oath?

20 MEMBER SANGHVI: Go ahead.

21 MS. LOT: I am concerned with the fact that

22 the proposed plan abuts right up against the

23 lot line as near as I can figure it of our

24 mobile home park. I am wondering what



1 effect -- in fact, I live in the back corner

2 there, where I'm wondering whether or not

3 the proposed, let's see, that would be the

4 south border on the diagram. I think that's

5 going to come right up against the park.

6 And I wonder if there is a buffer zone

7 allowed there? Or what will be allowed

8 there? Will there be a fence? I don't see

9 that in the plans.

10 MEMBER SANGHVI: Please, go ahead.

11 MS. LOT: I can't see that.

12 MR. BUTLER: Thank you. These are the

13 buildings we are proposing. This is the

14 (unintelligible) substation.

15 MS. LOT: The electric will be by Twelve

16 Oaks?

17 MR. BUTLER: Yes, this is the power station

18 right there. This is the mobile home park.

19 This is approximately 670 feet.

20 MS. LOT: Okay. Oh, so it is --

21 MR. BUTLER: This is Haggerty Road.

22 MS. LOT: Okay. Is this coming -- what is

23 this?

24 MR. BUTLER: We're leaving this as



1 untouched. The only area we are building on

2 is here.

3 MS. LOT: Okay, I'm satisfied.

4 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you.

5 MS. LOT: Thank you.

6 MEMBER SANGHVI: Okay. Anybody else?

7 MR. SERVIN: My name is Robert Servin. I am

8 residing in Country Cousins also. And

9 actually right there is where I reside. And

10 where they are doing everything, what I am

11 worried about is like my roommate Thomas

12 said, the wild life. In the mornings we see

13 deer walking through there. What's going to

14 happen to all the wildlife and the

15 (unintelligible) pads that you plan on

16 putting in that was in the proposal. And

17 the backfilling that they are already doing

18 in one of the wetlands which is, this is the

19 substation, they are already starting to

20 backfill right in this area. I hear them at

21 7:00 in the morning dumping. And I am just

22 wondering are we going to hear that or are

23 we going to have to put a privacy wall up so

24 we don't hear the road traffic? Are they



1 going to destroy all the trees and all the

2 wildlife? Where is all the wildlife going

3 to go?

4 They can go across the street to Cabot Drive

5 just north and be one mile away from their

6 substation. Like the other gentleman said,

7 there is plenty of property there that's

8 already been developed. There are buildings

9 already built. Why destroy virgin land?

10 You know, we are already destroying the

11 ozone layer, why not keep some trees and try

12 and keep some oxygen here. That's more or

13 less all I got to say. Thank you.

14 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you, sir.

15 MR. WOOD: My name is Scott Wood, I am also

16 a resident of Country Cousins.

17 Two concerns. First question I

18 have is the current access roads going back

19 to the power station right now, I notice

20 it's been staked out, and my understanding

21 was there was supposed to be no construction

22 in the area. So I guess I am not sure why

23 there would be all these stakes in there?

24 MR. BUTLER: We are currently working with



1 the Building Department for a soil erosion

2 and staging permit. And what you are seeing

3 staked out there is a location of a

4 temporary soil erosion control fencing.

5 MR. WOOD: Okay.

6 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you.

7 MR. WOOD: And the other concern I would

8 have is the location of the dumpster. It's

9 a very large site and the dumpster location

10 is on the east side of the site. And

11 generally the winds are coming from the

12 west. So it's the closest to where the

13 residential area is. So if it could possibly

14 be relocated a little farther away from the

15 residential areas that would be an

16 improvement.

17 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. Thank you very

18 much, indeed.

19 Next, just come on up.

20 MR. THOMPSON: My name is Zach Thompson. I

21 am the owner of the property directly across

22 Haggerty Road where the Quaker substation

23 entrance is. I guess I want to take

24 advantage of this opportunity as a matter of



1 the record to address a concern that I have

2 that was not addressed by DTE. Now, I am

3 not sure whether I approached the wrong

4 people on this or not. But we have had an

5 ongoing problem with water that's coming up

6 out of the ground from some sort of, you put

7 some sort of holding tank about a year or

8 two ago, and what's happening is that water

9 in the winter is coming up, bubbling up,

10 traveling down the sidewalk and freezing

11 over my parking lot.

12 I didn't get any response out of

13 DTE, maybe it's ITC, but as a matter of

14 record I would like to add that at least

15 something that's addressed and considered as

16 a part of this approval.

17 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you.

18 Anybody else? I want to thank

19 you all for coming here this evening and

20 stating your concerns. Thank you.

21 Now, Building Department?

22 MR. SAVEN: I think there is a lot of

23 concerns that were certainly generated by

24 the adjacent neighbors in regards to the



1 activity that is going to be taking place on

2 this site. And a couple of things I want to

3 point out. For as long as I have been with

4 the City of Novi issues regarding wetlands,

5 protected wetlands and woodlands and State

6 requirements have to be maintained even

7 prior to me issuing a building permit for

8 the site.

9 This is a requirement by the law

10 of Public Act 230. It's very explicit about

11 complying with all State, Federal ordinance

12 requirements. This issue has been so

13 sensitive enough that even in the process of

14 looking at dealing with temporary buildings

15 on the site or temporary trailers on the

16 site where they are going to be placed in

17 regards to the construction of this site,

18 certainly there are issues. Everybody is

19 well aware about the congestion that is

20 presented by the wetlands and woodlands, and

21 in an effort to protect these areas there

22 are certain locations that have to be looked

23 at. And then after the construction of the

24 building that site is reestablished to where



1 it was right from the very beginning.

2 One of the things that I think

3 what needs to be brought up is the fact that

4 the access is going to be off 12 Mile Road.

5 And would you mind coming back up to the

6 podium? In regards to the Haggerty Road,

7 the Haggerty Road entrance in terms of

8 access for that particular site once it's

9 completed this is as I understand is going

10 to be for emergency purposes.

11 MR. BUTLER: That is correct.

12 MR. SAVEN: And only for emergency purposes?

13 MR. BUTLER: That is correct.

14 MR. SAVEN: There will be no entrance where

15 we are going to be going by these people's

16 homes after the place has occupancy; is that

17 correct?

18 MR. BUTLER: The only caveat I would put on

19 that, it is an emergency entrance for the

20 building. However, the substation entrance

21 which is currently there we'll maintain --

22 MR. SAVEN: That's understandable. I'm

23 concerned that these folks here are looking

24 at a high congested area and the 400 and sum



1 or the employees that are going there are

2 going to be coming off of Haggerty Road

3 there goes the purpose of the guard shack

4 and entrance off of 12 Mile Road. So that

5 needs to be pointed out.

6 But in terms of the wetlands and the

7 woodlands, all these issues must be approved

8 and we are presently waiting on the approval

9 from MDEQ as it exist right now for the

10 allowance of this to take place would be to

11 issue a temporary permit for trailers which

12 will be along that stretch over here from

13 Haggerty Road for the construction of the

14 site because there is no other place to put

15 the units.

16 So, from that standpoint of view

17 we want to insure that the wetlands is

18 protected. We want to insure that the

19 woodlands is protected and continue in that

20 area.

21 MR. BURNETT: I want to say, are they taking

22 in consideration of the, allowing these

23 roads they are building in and this grass

24 along the front of the building,



1 fertilizers, weed killers and bug killers

2 that are going to be brought into these

3 wetlands? That's what they stay away from.

4 That will kill the whole thing right there.

5 Once your fertilizer gets in there to keep

6 your grass nice and green you will have weed

7 killers to keep the weeds out, that's what

8 wetlands belong there. When you start with

9 your bugs around there, which your swamp

10 lands and your marshes give you, you are

11 going to spray bugs in there to help your

12 people at the business so they don't have

13 bugs on them when they go in in the morning.

14 This is going to just destroy the

15 property. There is no way you cannot

16 destroy it by bringing people in there.

17 People are what destroy wetlands. You

18 cannot live together with it. You have to

19 keep your distance from it. And that's what

20 we are asking, keep your distance from it.

21 MEMBER SANGHVI: Excuse me, sir. You had

22 your chance when you were up here.

23 MR. BURNETT: He asked me.

24 MEMBER SANGHVI: We can't have a running



1 conversation like that going on. If you

2 would like to make a response will you

3 please come to the podium so that everybody

4 at home also can listen to your

5 conversation.

6 MR. BURNETT: You want me to come up there

7 now?

8 MR. SAVEN: Certainly.

9 MEMBER SANGHVI: Please. This meeting is

10 being televised and people --

11 MR. BURNETT: I am saying that you are going

12 to introduce insecticides, you are going to

13 introduce fertilizers, you are going to be

14 bringing in weed killers. This is what

15 keeps wetlands dying, that's what kills

16 them. To stay away from them is what people

17 have to do.

18 Right now in this area here in larger

19 electric lines they have gone up in the air.

20 When they cut those trees down they didn't

21 clear the area, they just pushed the trees

22 into the woods. People on the sides of

23 them, the neighbor of ours that has the

24 landscaping business, his back property is



1 flooded because they just dropped trees. I

2 have walked back there. There are areas

3 where trees are just dropped into the woods.

4 They are not taking care of this when they

5 do this, but just coming in like humans

6 usually do. We want this, that's it. Never

7 mind the animals, never mind the land around

8 it. Never mind Novi brought in a Wetlands

9 Act, never mind they said they wanted a

10 Woodland Act. We'll just take out 500 trees.

11 Cut down 500 trees. Not talking about the

12 trees that are over three feet tall only to

13 eight feet tall, those are still trees. You

14 are talking over a thousand trees when you

15 think of the trees that are on that land.

16 I have been back there. The

17 ponds you are going to affect, you are going

18 to destroy that pond once the fertilizers

19 get in there it's dead.

20 Like I said, I one time it might

21 have been a small lake, but when the

22 entrance from M-5 came down to 12 Mile they

23 covered part of that pond. I don't know how

24 they got the right to do it, but Novi



1 allowed them to do it. Maybe the State

2 allowed it over us. But somehow they have

3 shrunk that pond down. It's still over ten

4 acres. Ten acres is a large pond. Really

5 almost a small lake in some places. So to

6 destroy this is just wrong, it's just

7 completely wrong.

8 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you.

9 MR. BURNETT: And that's why I'm against

10 whatever they want to do to this property

11 because I have been in Novi for over

12 30 years. I lost my home because of a

13 project that built a subdivision. They

14 flooded my home out and I lost my home.

15 That's why I live where I live in that park

16 because the City allowed the people to come

17 behind me, build a reservoir, flooded me out

18 and then they fought me and I cannot beat

19 nine lawyers, so I lost. I lost my home. My

20 family and I all had to move. So this is

21 where we are.

22 And now I am watching another

23 reckless project come in and want to take

24 over this land. It's not my land, but it



1 should belong to the City of Novi as a point

2 of nature. Look at all that we have torn

3 down now. You went over and you built this

4 big center down there, Rock Financial. The

5 wetlands were covered over for Rock

6 Financial's parking lot. They were covered

7 over. Nobody thought of the wetlands. And

8 you can't take it and say I will build it

9 here and I will give you a wetland over

10 there.

11 Down by 13 Mile on Haggerty Road

12 they cleared out a pond, they took and

13 dredged it out and now it looks like a

14 little reservoir, that's not how you clean

15 out a pond. Novi has no way of cleaning up

16 cattails in ponds. They have no way of

17 taking care of that. I don't think you have

18 anybody in here qualified to take care of

19 land, the wetlands.

20 MEMBER SANGHVI: Okay. All right, sir, your

21 point is well taken. Thank you very much.

22 Thank you.

23 MR. BURNETT: I just like to say one other

24 thing. I came to a meeting on the 13th of



1 the December. I spoke of the same thing.

2 The vote was really taken before I got there

3 because ten minutes after I got done talking

4 it was a unanimous decision that they could

5 do what they wanted to do. Our

6 consideration should be taken in because the

7 Mayor tells us this community belongs to the

8 people, not to the investors, to the people.

9 Thank you.

10 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you, sir, thank you

11 very much.

12 Anything further from you, Mr. Saven?

13 MR. SAVEN: You know everything.

14 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you.

15 Moving along. We had sent 386 notices.

16 There were two objections and I believe they

17 are here today. Mr. Secretary, please read

18 the names.

19 MEMBER BAUER: Darlene Alexander.

20 MEMBER SANGHVI: She is here.

21 MEMBER BAUER: (Unintelligible). As long as

22 you don't involve Country Cousins, Inc.,

23 Section 13, I have no objection.

24 Alan on Old Justin Road.



1 Objection.

2 I have one from Stankiewicz is it? I'm

3 sorry, Edward. Approval and objection. I

4 give approval as long as you don't fool with

5 Country Cousins.

6 Marilyn Kilner. As soon as we

7 give more to ITC Company will want more as

8 far as I am concerned. I object to the

9 requested variance.

10 (Unintelligible).

11 MEMBER SANGHVI: All right. Thank you.

12 Moving on. I open up the discussion for the

13 Board now.

14 Yes, Ms. Krieger?

15 MEMBER KRIEGER: I have a question regarding

16 the six story office building. I thought

17 from previous council meetings that the

18 office buildings in Novi would be five

19 stories?

20 MR. SAVEN: We're looking at six stories.

21 It was still in approval for six.

22 MEMBER KRIEGER: And then also for the size

23 of the fence for Novi is supposed to be six

24 feet. They can exceed that?



1 MR. SAVEN: That, I am not sure of.

2 MEMBER KRIEGER: For residential I

3 understand it's six feet?

4 MR. SAVEN: That's correct.

5 MEMBER KRIEGER: But for office I would

6 question that height. And then I guess if

7 the security nature is so great that they

8 need a guard area, I have concern regarding

9 that. And also every time I come home from

10 work I get off at M-5 and 12 Mile and I see

11 the swans tending the lake, so it's

12 environmental issues I have a concern with

13 also. Thank you.

14 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. Anybody else

15 making comments? Yes, Mr. Fischer?

16 MEMBER FISCHER: Sure. First off I want to

17 say that I applaud all of the neighbors and

18 all of the people who came in today to voice

19 their concerns. I am excited when we

20 actually get participation and conversation

21 and dialog going on because so often we go

22 thorough a whole meeting and we don't hear a

23 single objection, approval or anything, so

24 it's exciting to see people actually care



1 about what happens to the City of Novi. So

2 thank you all for coming and your objections

3 are well noted.

4 Number two, as much as I lived in

5 this city for my entire life now, 20 sum

6 years. I remember Irwin Farms and before

7 when A & P was A & P and all those certain

8 things. As much as I wish we could take

9 Novi and set it at a certain point in time,

10 I realize that we can't do that. And I

11 realize that what we have to do is use our

12 Ordinance to the affect of making sure that

13 we do preserve and mitigate the woodlands,

14 wetlands and everything as much as we can.

15 So if the City is to go in and not allow any

16 building whatsoever on this property, that's

17 when we get into lawsuits, that's when we

18 get into having to buy this property. And

19 we at this level are certainly not in the

20 position to make any of those types of

21 deals.

22 At this level on the Zoning Board

23 of Appeals we have to stick with the five

24 exact variances that are before us. We



1 can't look at the whole site plan. We can't

2 look at all the surroundings factors and the

3 decisions that go on at the Council or

4 Planning Commission level. We have to look

5 at the variances in front of us and the

6 application of the law, the practical

7 difficulty.

8 And in doing that I would on the

9 other side applaud the Petitioner in doing

10 what they did. My first concern when I

11 looked at this is to look for the

12 residential areas that would be affected.

13 And I saw Country Cousins and I'm not sure

14 if there is another village over there that,

15 is it part of Country Cousins or it is all

16 one --

17 MR. BUTLER: Two sections.

18 MEMBER FISCHER: Two different sections. So

19 I saw both of those on my map that I have

20 and I was encouraged to see that the

21 Petitioner is requesting to build all on the

22 other side of the existing substation. And

23 I believe that was pointed out to the lady

24 who was up here questioning that that she



1 lives in the back corner and it appears that

2 all of the development, correct me if I am

3 wrong, is completely on the other side of

4 the Quaker substation?

5 MR. BUTLER: That's correct.

6 MEMBER FISCHER: And While I do note and

7 agree that maybe we could look at a

8 different position for the dumpster, I think

9 that would be a minor thing that we could

10 definitely look at. Besides that, I can

11 agree with these variances because I see

12 them as a way to maximize the amount of

13 wetlands and woodlands that we are

14 preserving. By granting this we actually

15 have saved more than if we did not grant

16 these. And that's why I am in favor of the

17 majority of these petitions given the fact

18 that, you know, it's a very unique piece of

19 property. The size is unique. I think that

20 the Petitioner has done everything to

21 preserve as much wetlands as they can and

22 take into consideration those residential

23 and actually other business neighbors that

24 reside near them.



1 I would also ask if we were to

2 talk about any type of Motion, that we do

3 have some followup with the neighbor across

4 the street regarding the water that has been

5 happening recently. But, in general,

6 looking at this, once again I applaud the

7 neighbors and I take into consideration

8 their objections, but given the facility and

9 the site plan and how it's laid out I think

10 that since we have to do something this is

11 the best plan that can be proposed.

12 So, I will start the conversation with that

13 and see where it goes. Thank you, Mr.

14 Chair.

15 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you.

16 Yes, Mr. Gatt?

17 MEMBER GATT: My comments some what mirror

18 Member Fischer's. I am also a very large

19 proponent of nature and the preservation of

20 nature. I lived in Sault Ste. Marie for

21 quite a while and the tree falls in the

22 woods there came into effect many many times

23 for all the wetlands and forest areas that

24 were up there.



1 On the other hand, we live in a city that is

2 in a massive development time period and

3 this particular company, this ITC Holdings

4 is going to be an extremely beneficial

5 factor of the City of Novi. A company that

6 is growing at the rate that it is can only

7 bring good things to the city.

8 I really appreciate the design layout that

9 you guys are proposing to use. I think that

10 you have maximized the area that is

11 buildable. I think that you guys have done

12 the best possible justice to the residents

13 in Country Cousins, the facilities. I think

14 that the sensitive nature of the business

15 that you guys are running and the guard

16 shack necessity will be minimized by the

17 fact that the Haggerty Road entrance will be

18 essentially shut down.

19 I can see that there may be some issue with

20 the dumpster location that is being proposed

21 and I think if maybe that could be moved to

22 a different area of the site I would be in

23 favor of that. I would like to hear from

24 ITC Holdings to determine whether or not



1 that's a possibility. I think that this is

2 going to be an extremely exciting and very

3 very beneficial factor to the City of Novi.

4 I think that with the wetlands this is the

5 best possible scenario for this particular

6 site. I don't think that any other company

7 could have come in and given a better

8 proposal to attempt to maintain the wetlands

9 without the City having to purchase it and

10 prevent any kind of building which would be

11 as Member Fischer said, way out the Zoning

12 Board's realm and I don't think that is a

13 possibility. So, again, I very very much

14 applaud the members of ITC Holdings for

15 their design and their attempts to minimize

16 the issues that could come up with the

17 wetland and forestry in the area. Thank

18 you.

19 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you, Mr. Gatt.

20 Anybody else coming along? Yes, City

21 Attorney Sharon Ozga?

22 MS. OZGA: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I just

23 want to make two slight comments. First

24 with regard to the wetlands, there has been



1 a lot of discussion with the wetlands and

2 there has been some statements that there is

3 a lot of rules and regulations that have to

4 be followed. And ITC will be following

5 them.

6 And I had one comment with regard

7 to some of the variances that are being

8 requested. It's my understanding that some

9 of these variances are being requested in an

10 effort to minimize the impact on the

11 wetlands. So perhaps the location of the

12 dumpster and some of the other setback

13 issues those requests are being made because

14 it's going to minimize the impact on the

15 wetlands a little bit more.

16 Also I wanted to note with regards to the

17 dumpster, the Planning Department was not

18 opposed to the location of the dumpster. I

19 noted that it would be sufficiently screened

20 from view from any of the other neighbors or

21 anything. So perhaps that's something to

22 take into consideration when looking at

23 their variance request for the dumpster.

24 Thank you.



1 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you.

2 Yes, Mr. Shroyer?

3 MEMBER SHROYER: Do you want to place a

4 comment on the record?

5 MEMBER SANGHVI: (Unintelligible) Go ahead.

6 MEMBER SHROYER: I have to basically support

7 all the comments that have been made so far.

8 I served the city in different capacities

9 and I have had to review things that

10 included wetlands and woodlands and things

11 along that line. I am very very pleased

12 with how this plan has been placed. I have

13 seen companies come in and request that 20,

14 30, 40, 50 percent of the wetlands been

15 filled in and plowed over and trees just

16 leveled everywhere, and it's a constant

17 fight, it's a constant struggle, because if

18 somebody owns the property they have the

19 right to build.

20 Now, we can try to limit things

21 as a city and we have done I think a very

22 good job in most instances. Now has things

23 slipped through the cracks, have we made

24 mistakes, absolutely. If we could go back



1 ten years I'm sure a lot of us would do a

2 lot of things all over again. And the

3 people that were in these positions years

4 ago probably would have done things

5 differently as well. Unfortunately we are

6 where we are now and there is not that much

7 land left in Novi to develop. So it's

8 critical that we look at every piece of

9 property as it comes forward, and that's the

10 job of the Planning Commission and the

11 Planning Department. They review those

12 extensively. This unfortunately isn't the

13 proper group for that.

14 As was mentioned earlier, we are stuck

15 basically in reviewing the five variance

16 requests. All the reviews, the wetlands and

17 the woodlands and the road layout and the

18 building heights and everything else was

19 done before, and they were approved. MDEQ

20 has been brought in and I'm sure they

21 reviewed everything in its entirety.

22 I think losing one half acre of wetlands is

23 very very minimal compared to what it could

24 have been. If ITC didn't purchase this land



1 or didn't own this land and a different

2 company did, we could see somebody coming in

3 and requesting a huge box building such as a

4 Rock Financial where you limit all the

5 woodlands and just flatten all the wetlands

6 -- flatten the wetlands and ruin the

7 woodlands -- I am saying that backwards, but

8 you know what I mean. For them to build the

9 separate buildings and separate garages and

10 not have one very large building I think is

11 a good plan.

12 And my major concern when I first

13 saw this and I went out and drove the back

14 road, there basically is what's going to be

15 the impact on the entrance from Haggerty

16 Road. And it's nothing. They are going to

17 put up a soot fence or whatever it's called

18 to prevent soil erosion which, of course, is

19 something you want to do.

20 One thing that I would encourage when you

21 look at is when you are looking at trying to

22 green the grass, etcetera, look at natural

23 methods of doing that. Don't look at

24 insecticides and fertilizers and things



1 along that line. There is some products out

2 there that can be used to help minimize any

3 affect on the environment. And you are the

4 ones that are going to have to look out the

5 window and see the results of what happens

6 to the wetlands. And what do you want to

7 look out and see? Do you want to look out

8 and see a fawn and a doe? Or do you want to

9 look out and see a bunch of dead trees, a

10 bunch of dead bushes, etcetera?

11 So, I think it behooves them to do

12 everything in their purview to try and make

13 sure that their surroundings are

14 aesthetically pleasing and that the wildlife

15 is there to enjoy by all of their employees

16 as well as the surrounding community and the

17 people that are enjoying that.

18 And I know I have been rambling

19 on here for a while, but you can tell, I

20 hope you can tell it's very dear to my heart

21 and I am really concerned about those areas.

22 Unfortunately, again, we have to review the

23 five zoning Ordinances that are in front of

24 us. In looking at those, I do not see a



1 problem with any of them. We did have the

2 little bit of concern about the dumpster,

3 the screening will help the odor. I don't

4 really know the total distance, perhaps you

5 might know the distance to the closest

6 resident?

7 MR. BUTLER: The dumpster is located in that

8 location. It's approximately in excess of

9 500 feet. Understanding of what we

10 structured here, it's pretty well

11 established woodlands as well. So the

12 natural features that are on the site will

13 enhance the screening odor.

14 MEMBER SHROYER: The mitigation of the

15 wetlands that you are proposing or where

16 it's been approved to put it in, that

17 offsets obviously the half acre that's being

18 back filled?

19 MR. BUTLER: Yes. We have an application in

20 with the DEQ, it has not been approved.

21 That's where we are proposing to put it.

22 MEMBER SHROYER: With the removal of the

23 trees, the woodland portion has there been

24 any type of exchange for those, the trees



1 that were removed, are you going to be

2 putting in additional trees to offset those?

3 MR. BUTLER: We have a pretty extensive

4 landscaping plan that goes with this site.

5 MEMBER SHROYER: Right. Could you very

6 briefly give us an overview of that for the

7 audience so they understand that at least

8 some things are going back in, we are not

9 just removing.

10 MR. BUTLER: Yeah, there is approximately

11 500, I believe about 539 trees that we are

12 removing in accordance with the City's

13 Woodlands Ordinance. The entire driveway

14 and the areas around the buildings will be

15 landscaped extensively in accordance with

16 the Ordinance of the City. There is a large

17 berm that we are building in this area that

18 will have a significant amount of trees.

19 The entire area along the driveway will be

20 landscaped. The building areas will have

21 not only landscaped street trees or

22 (unintelligible) trees. There we be a

23 foundation planting system around the site.

24 So a significant amount of vegetation is



1 going back into the site.

2 MEMBER SHROYER: I understand. I wanted to

3 make sure that the audience was aware of

4 that. Again, it's not in our purview but

5 something else I would like to throw out for

6 consideration. If there is additional

7 landscaping trees perhaps whether it be

8 conifers or whether it be heartwoods or

9 whatever, if anything else is available or

10 you look at additional landscaping down the

11 road, please consider increasing the buffer

12 between the village and the entrance to your

13 substation, even though there is not going

14 to be a lot of traffic there, any type of

15 additional buffer would help not only the

16 aesthetics, but also any type of odor that

17 may come from a dumpster.

18 MR. BUTLER: I understand and appreciate

19 that. Also I would like to point out that

20 the existing wetland structures that are on

21 site will be placed in a conservation

22 easement. There is also woodlands in the

23 area that will also be placed in

24 conservation, so we will be restricted from



1 developing going into those areas. Like I

2 said, it's an 83 acre site. We are

3 developing approximately 22, 23 and a half

4 acres of the site. So a lot of it will be

5 left in its natural pristine state.

6 MEMBER SHROYER: Thank you. Mr. Chair,

7 after your comments, if you like I am

8 prepared to make a Motion.

9 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. I just want to

10 go on record. First of all, I want to thank

11 you all. I love these wetlands as you do.

12 I love everything that is living. That's my

13 religion and that's what I believe. So

14 personally I understand exactly where you

15 are all coming from, more than you all

16 realize. But the reality of life is that

17 the function of Zoning Board of Appeals is

18 to only deal with the variance request and

19 nothing more and nothing less. And that is

20 all we can consider in this forum.

21 So you even though I appreciate and I also

22 sympathize and empathize in all that you

23 have said, and my feelings are very similar

24 to yours, there are very few things that we



1 can do here as a body.

2 And, again, it's so nice to hear

3 people who are concerned with what goes on

4 in the city and taking time out, coming out

5 here on this cold night. If I had a choice

6 I would have stayed home, but that's not

7 (unintelligible), but you have a choice and

8 you made that choice to come here and talk

9 to us. So thank you again for doing what

10 you did. And so long as we have people like

11 you around in Novi, Novi development is

12 going to be much like a (unintelligible) and

13 people are going to do what is right thing

14 to do. Thank you again.

15 Coming back to tonight in the

16 case on the question here, we have had a lot

17 of discussion here about the various aspects

18 of the situation. And now I will entertain

19 a Motion from the members of the Board.

20 Yes, Mr. Shroyer?

21 MEMBER SHROYER: Move to approve all five

22 variance requests for Case Number 06-097

23 filed by Joe Bennett of ITC Holdings for ITC

24 Transmission Corporate Headquarters for the



1 following reasons: Variance number 1,

2 setback variance has no detrimental affect

3 on the adjacent property to the east whereas

4 the existing building is of a respectable

5 distance west of the common property line.

6 Variance number 2, parking alongside the

7 said drive will not fundamentally alter the

8 function of the drive.

9 Variance number 3, reduction of the center

10 line radius to 100 feet -- less than a 100

11 feet would not significantly alter the

12 utilization of the proposed drive.

13 Variance number 4, the size of the proposed

14 structure coupled with the distance from the

15 major thoroughfares allows it to not have

16 detrimental affect on the adjacent

17 properties.

18 Variance number 5, the location of the

19 proposed dumpster is at a distance from

20 adjacent properties so as to not pose a

21 detrimental affect. Also the uniqueness of

22 the properties justify the need to allow

23 variances in order to preserve the

24 substantial amount of regulated wetlands



1 present.

2 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you.

3 MEMBER FISCHER: Might I add a couple of

4 other findings regarding some findings just

5 to ensure that we do meet all of the

6 elements of practical difficulty. I would

7 also like to say that failing to grant

8 relief will unreasonably prevent or limit

9 the use of the property and will result in

10 substantially more than a mere inconvenience

11 or inability to obtain a higher economic or

12 financial return. And also that the grant

13 of relief will not result in a use or

14 structure that is incompatible with or

15 unreasonably interferes with adjacent or

16 sounding properties.

17 In essence substantial justice will be done

18 both to the applicant and adjacent or

19 surrounding properties and this is

20 consistent with the intent of Section 2514

21 that in general throughout the site the

22 preservation of wetland and woodland areas

23 is met.

24 And if you were to accept those I would



1 second that Motion.

2 MEMBER SANGHVI: Okay. The Motion has been

3 made and seconded.

4 I just want to ask

5 (unintelligible) our attorney if there is

6 anything that we need to add or delete from

7 the Motion before we pass it?

8 MS. OZGA: I believe Mr. Shroyer accepted

9 and amended his Motion to add what Mr.

10 Fischer had included and there was a second

11 to that. So that should be sufficient.

12 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. The Motion has

13 been made and seconded. I think we have had

14 enough discussion on this matter. And it's

15 time to call the roll.

16 ROBIN WORKING: Member Shroyer?


18 ROBIN WORKING: Member Fischer?


20 ROBIN WORKING: Member Gatt?


22 ROBIN WORKING: Member Krieger?


24 ROBIN WORKING: Member Sanghvi?




2 ROBIN WORKING: Member Bauer?


4 ROBIN WORKING: Motion passes 6-0.

5 MEMBER SANGHVI: Okay. Thank you.

6 MR. BENNETT: Thank you very much.

7 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. I think we will

8 take a five minute recess and resume in five

9 minutes. Thank you.

10 (A recess was held.)

11 MEMBER SANGHVI: All right. Let's resume.

12 Case number: 06-098 filed by

13 John S. Gelfusa of Home Works CGO, Inc., for

14 22649 Shadow Paine Way in the Heatherbrae

15 Subdivision.

16 Will you please identify yourself, sir,

17 state your name and address and be sworn in

18 by our secretary. Thank you.

19 MR. GELFUSA: I am John Gelfusa with Home

20 Works, 332 Cass Avenue, Mount Clemens.

21 MEMBER BAUER: Raise your right hand,

22 please. Do you swear or affirm to tell the

23 truth regarding Case: 06-098?

24 MR. GELFUSA: Yes, sir.



1 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. Please proceed.

2 MR. GELFUSA: We are proposing a 1.5

3 variance increase on the 25 percent lot

4 coverage. We are building a 336 square feet

5 addition on to an existing home. The

6 footings for this project were put in in

7 1987 and they were inspected. The homeowner

8 had intended to do that back then. Just a

9 normal course of life never got to the point

10 where they could afford it. They are now

11 interested in doing it. But apparently now

12 we are just a hair over the maximum lot

13 coverage. We would like to build on those

14 existing footings and that is what we are

15 hoping we could do here.

16 I do have the homeowner here if

17 you have questions for the homeowner as

18 well.

19 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes. That's all,

20 (unintelligible) your case?

21 MR. GELFUSA: Yes, sir.

22 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. Is there

23 anybody in the audience who would like to

24 make any comments regarding this case?



1 Seeing none, Building Department?

2 MR. SAVEN: I think a pencil was probably

3 sharpened a little bit more since the time

4 they put the footings in. I do apologize of

5 us not catching this any sooner than that.

6 It is relatively a small variance that we

7 are dealing with. We also have a copy of a,

8 I believe, approval, if I am not mistaken.

9 Yes, I think we have it in file and I think

10 you also have an employee from the

11 association.

12 MEMBER SANGHVI: Okay. We have 43 notices

13 were mailed, zero approval, zero objections.

14 I will open this for discussion to the

15 Board members. Yes, Ms. Krieger?

16 MEMBER KRIEGER: I am in support of a Motion

17 for it.

18 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. Short and sweet

19 and precise and succinct.

20 Anybody else? Yes, Mr. Gatt?

21 MEMBER GATT: I am also in support of Motion

22 to approve this variance. I think that it's

23 going to be extremely minimal for a variance

24 request. And I don't really even think that



1 it will be noticed by many.

2 I think it's going to be a lovely addition.

3 I think it will do nothing but increase the

4 value of the property and I think that it's

5 going to make a very very, make a very

6 beautiful home even more beautiful. Thank

7 you.

8 MEMBER SANGHVI: Very good. Anybody else?


10 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes, Mr. Fischer?

11 MEMBER FISCHER: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I

12 would tend to agree. Ordinances are in

13 place to protect the city and protect other

14 residents and neighboring and surrounding

15 areas and I think it does nothing but adds

16 to the area. It does not detriment it any

17 way.

18 And do we have any other

19 questions? If there are no other questions

20 or comments I would go ahead a make a

21 Motion.

22 MEMBER SANGHVI: Please go ahead.

23 MEMBER FISCHER: In Case Number: 06-098

24 filed by John Gelfusa of Home Works for



1 22649 Shadow Pine Way in the Heatherbrae

2 Subdivision that we grant the Petitioner's

3 request given that the Petitioner has

4 established practical difficulty. That the

5 proposed improvement will not be a detriment

6 to public safety, welfare or other neighbors

7 and that it is within the intent of the

8 Ordinance.

9 MEMBER BAUER: Second the Motion.

10 MEMBER SANGHVI: Motion has been made and

11 seconded.

12 Yes, Mr. Shroyer?

13 MEMBER SHROYER: Would the Motioner be open

14 to a friendly amendment to include that the

15 homeowner's association has provided

16 approval?

17 MEMBER FISCHER: Yes, I would include that

18 our findings of fact.

19 MEMBER SHROYER: Thank you.

20 MEMBER SANGHVI: All right. The Motion has

21 been amended and has been approved by the

22 proposer and seconded. And I don't see any

23 further discussion, so, Ms. Working, will

24 you please call the roll.



1 ROBIN WORKING: Member Fisher?


3 ROBIN WORKING: Member Bauer?


5 ROBIN WORKING: Member Sanghvi?


7 ROBIN WORKING: Member Shroyer?


9 ROBIN WORKING: Member Krieger?


11 ROBIN WORKING: Member Gatt.


13 ROBIN WORKING: Motion passes 6-0.

14 MEMBER SANGHVI: Congratulations.

15 MR. GELFUSA: Thank you very much.

16 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you.

17 Moving along. Case number: 06-099 filed

18 Luciano Gonzalez of Planet Neon Signs for

19 Miracle Software located at 45625 Grand

20 River Avenue.

21 MR. ANEW: I'm Bailey Anew from Miracle

22 Software.

23 MEMBER SANGHVI: Okay, would you kindly

24 identify yourself, state your full name and



1 address and be sworn in by our secretary.

2 MR. ANEW: Sure. I'm Bailey Anew,

3 vice-president for Miracle Software.

4 MEMBER BAUER: Would you raise your right

5 hand. Do you swear or affirm to tell the

6 truth regarding the Case: 06-099?

7 MR. ANEW: Yes.

8 MEMBER BAUER: Thank you.

9 MEMBER SANGHVI: Please make your

10 presentation.

11 MR. ANEW: First of all, we would like to

12 thank the City of Novi. We moved from

13 Southfield where we have been there in

14 business for almost eight years. And since

15 our coming down here in May, we have not

16 only increased our revenues, but also

17 increased our people strength, so it's been

18 very good and we enjoy this place. So thanks

19 for all the support here.

20 The reason for the display which we are

21 requesting for is we are uniquely placed

22 today in the IBM world. When we say IBM

23 world, IBM is a major software company

24 addressing large software needs for a lot of



1 companies.

2 Miracle Software is one of the 14 innovation

3 centers across the world and what it brings

4 is it's a training center, it's a demo

5 center for a lot of the major projects are

6 key software solutions right now. Like the

7 SOA (unintelligible) architecture and all

8 the new concepts which are all being

9 showcased in the IP world. And what this

10 center brings in is for anybody, it could

11 (unintelligible), it could be a student,

12 offering anybody to come and walk into the

13 center and understand those concepts. And

14 this is one of the 14 centers

15 (unintelligible) and we are uniquely placed

16 from business integration standpoint.

17 Now all this is being relayed out on our

18 website and we send names to lot of

19 corporations and everybody, but for those

20 people who live in and around this place and

21 for all those people who travel around, this

22 display will be continually displaying as to

23 what is going to be showcased during that

24 particular session or something. It's a



1 continuous ongoing work, so that's the

2 reason that we wanted to have the display so

3 that everybody can take advantage of it.

4 Thank you.

5 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. I don't see

6 very many people in the audience left, so if

7 anybody wants to make any comment about this

8 case they are welcome.

9 Seeing none, I will go on to the Building

10 Department.

11 MR. SAVEN: No comment, sir.

12 MR. AMOLSCH: Mr. Chairman, just for a point

13 of information for the Board, the latest

14 sign Ordinance only allows changeable

15 company signs for businesses such as place

16 of worship, schools, movie theatres, and

17 similar entertainment venues which shows

18 performers or entertainers' names on a

19 regular basis, gas stations, restaurants,

20 recreational facilities at which events

21 change on a regular basis and these are the

22 only uses that are permitted for change of

23 copy signs under the new Ordinance.

24 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you, Mr. Amolsch.



1 Twenty-eight notices were mailed, zero

2 approval, zero objections. I open it up to

3 the Board now.

4 Yes, Mr. Bauer?

5 MEMBER BAUER: In this particular case I

6 would have to go along with what the

7 Ordinance states that there be no changeable

8 copy. There is no hardship shown at this

9 point to defend it.

10 MEMBER SANGHVI: Okay. Yes, Mr. Shroyer?

11 MEMBER SHROYER: (Unintelligible) the sign,

12 it's a beautiful sign, but, it always seems

13 to be a but, under the new section as was

14 stated it really doesn't comply with the

15 changeable sign part of the Ordinance. The

16 question that I would have to you because

17 I'm right now leaning towards a denial is

18 give me some examples of what the sign would

19 say and why you would need to have that.

20 MR. ANEW: Sure. I'm not a very well versed

21 with the (unintelligible) but as per my

22 operations. One of the things is when we

23 first designed and signed this contract I

24 believe we were allowed to do that and the



1 sign Ordinance was operated after 9-26-06.

2 I am not very familiar, but I would request

3 your help on that.

4 But in terms of the actual display what

5 (unintelligible) center really means is,

6 it's a demo center, it's like a training

7 center. So what we would have is like

8 today, service oriented architecture and its

9 importance for the industry. Thus we are

10 modeling and its need for today's world. So

11 basically it's very specific to the topic

12 only as like automotive industry

13 architecture (unintelligible) and it's a

14 very high level, it's very high level

15 education which you won't get it until you

16 pay for like a $5,000 or $6,000 fee if you

17 have to go for outside training centers.

18 And this is a facility which is funded by

19 IBM and Miracle. And it's a giant facility

20 that people can take advantage of it. And we

21 want everybody to take advantage of it. We

22 won't have a big display or something, it's

23 only those few words like the Rock World

24 Financial or something like that, so that's



1 the only thing that you want to see.

2 MEMBER SHROYER: So you're not advertising

3 what's for sale inside?

4 MR. ANEW: No, sir.

5 MEMBER SHROYER: It's only the training

6 programs that are offered during that

7 particular time?

8 MR. ANEW: Exactly.

9 MEMBER SHROYER: And it won't change the

10 next day or the next day or the following

11 week or whatever?

12 MR. ANEW: We don't have any advertising

13 programs or anything like that. The topic

14 of display would be the content which is

15 going to be demoed on that particular day.

16 Like, for example, we had the ASO Innovation

17 day, the inauguration day and IBM

18 (unintelligible) students from the worldwide

19 departments have come in and presented the

20 SOA infrastructure.

21 A lot of people around including our City of

22 Novi has come there and they said that we

23 weren't able to understand. They identify

24 with the location obviously because they



1 know the location, but they did not

2 understand why exactly this is being placed.

3 Some neighbors who are coming in and said

4 maybe this is something like would like to

5 take advantage of it. So it would help

6 people to understand what this is all about.

7 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. Yes, Mr. --

8 MEMBER SHROYER: May I continue?

9 MEMBER SANGHVI: Sorry (unintelligible).

10 MEMBER SHROYER: Education and training is

11 my business. I understand where you are

12 coming from with that and I understand the

13 reason and the need. The concerns that I

14 have, and this is just for everybody else's

15 thoughts, I guess, is the City spent a lot

16 of time reviewing the sign Ordinance and

17 came up with some very specific

18 recommendations as to who they felt this

19 sign should be used for, changeable signs.

20 You don't fall into one of those categories.

21 And because it is new and because, like I

22 said, they spent a lot of time and took a

23 lot of consideration with this, I am very

24 hesitant to make a recommendation that that



1 be approved.

2 If we do end up with a denial and

3 you do have permission to have a monument

4 sign obviously, what would you do instead?

5 Would you take the center portion and say

6 training facility or something like that as

7 opposed to having the changeable sign?

8 MR. ANEW: Before I go into it, the reason

9 why the schools -- we are not a school for

10 sure, we are not a school, but this is also

11 a training facility for all the IBM related

12 softwares and not only IBM and all the key

13 softwares within the IP world right now.

14 But we have not thought about any changes

15 because we always thought that this is

16 something which is going to be key for in

17 terms of the demos and information for the

18 local people around here, like for

19 automotive customers and particularly all

20 the people around there. So have not thought

21 about any alternate as of now, and we don't

22 intend to do any other, other than the

23 company stamp, we don't have any other ideas

24 right now.



1 MEMBER SHROYER: Thank you. That's all have

2 I for now, Mr. Chair.

3 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you.

4 Yes, Mr. Gatt?

5 MEMBER GATT: I have one question for you.

6 First of all, how often do you feel that the

7 sign's electronic changeable portion of the

8 sign will change? Is it a daily situation

9 where there is one training on that

10 particular day or is it per week? Will it

11 be a constantly changing five per minute

12 type sign where it will be five different

13 things per minute that would change over?

14 MR. ANEW: Good question, sir. Right now

15 what we are doing right now is every 15 days

16 we have web casts. Which the innovation

17 center is right now is doing. So currently

18 it's every 15 days change. But what we

19 intend to do is we want to invite the local

20 customers more often and see if we can bring

21 in this, it's thought more revenue for the

22 company as well as for the City, so we

23 intend to do it like weekly once, so that's

24 the intent right now. So it's not a major



1 like five-minute or it's not, it's not

2 something to attract people or anything like

3 that. And the best part of this is the

4 majority of the people who come in over

5 there they either apply through the

6 operations or somebody, but there is so many

7 business around here who are not able to

8 take advantage of it, and we would like to

9 display that for those people.

10 MEMBER GATT: Thank you. My other thoughts

11 on this are, I understand that it is not

12 specifically included in the changeable sign

13 variance that the City has adopted, however,

14 I feel that if the City of Novi were to have

15 thought, well, there is going to be a very

16 high level IBM training software facility in

17 the City of Novi, maybe, I think that this

18 is so unique that this might have gone

19 beyond the realm of something that they

20 would have thought of to even consider

21 putting it in. I don't think that this is

22 for advertisement to sell any type of

23 product or anything like that which would be

24 a detriment.



1 I think that this particular company and the

2 service they provide is a demonstrated need

3 and hardship to have a changeable copy sign

4 that would state what was going on for an

5 outsider of this City to come to this

6 particular thing if they had a day where

7 they had this training where people from

8 Southfield or any other city around the area

9 was trying to find them, they needed to find

10 this particular training for this particular

11 type of software on that week, this is the

12 only real option that they have is to have a

13 changeable copy sign. That I think that

14 would be the hardship that could be

15 considered in a Motion today. That's all.

16 Thank you.

17 MEMBER SANGHVI: I just like to go on the

18 record myself. I think this is an

19 innovative idea. And I'll give you an

20 example from the history, when that when

21 Andrew Jackson was the president of the

22 United States of the America and they were

23 trying to lay some tracks for a railroad

24 there was a lot of opposition. What will



1 happen to the horses? Who will treat them?

2 Who would provide them water, this, that and

3 other things? And the people would run in

4 front of this track and got killed and all

5 that. That was over a hundred years ago.

6 But times keep changing, we need to keep

7 changing with the times.

8 And I personally have no objection with your

9 concept. I understand what you are trying

10 to say. I applaud you for what you are

11 thinking about in putting over there, and if

12 you are going to change the sign only once

13 or week or so I have no problem with it.

14 The second thing, because it is not listed

15 in the whole category of the things the City

16 has thought about, that is one of the

17 reasons why we are here to give a variance,

18 a use variance if you want to call it to try

19 and see if we think it is a worthwhile

20 thing. And if it's not going to do any harm

21 to anybody else in the community. And I

22 personally have no difficulty in supporting

23 your request. Thank you.

24 MEMBER FISCHER: One question for the Board.



1 You weren't there when Andrew Jackson said

2 that, were you?

3 MEMBER SANGHVI: I was there, I've been

4 around for a long time. (Unintelligible)

5 been around for a long time.

6 (Unintelligible).

7 MEMBER BAUER: Let me see his autograph.

8 MEMBER SANGHVI: All right, I will show you

9 when you come to my house. Thank you.

10 MEMBER FISCHER: But I do have a couple

11 pieces of clarification for myself just to

12 make sure that I fully understand what this

13 sign is used for. Number one, my

14 understanding is that this is for specific

15 training courses, kind of specific days that

16 those courses will be going on. Is that

17 correct, number one?

18 MR. ANEW: It's only for the specific days on

19 which those specific topics are covered, so

20 it's only on that.

21 MEMBER FISCHER: Okay. The reason I ask that

22 is because in the packet of information we

23 were given it said a listing of company

24 information as to what they provide. And if



1 this was purely going to be used for general

2 information, then I would be hesitant to

3 support. If it was just this is what we do

4 on a day to day basis, then I would be

5 hesitant to support. But I see these

6 training sessions as I would say events at

7 Rock Financial Show Place, which I would

8 support.

9 Number two, you had mentioned

10 that this is not going to be a flashing

11 sign, it's not going to be continuously

12 moving, it's not going to be changed every

13 five minutes. This is going to show

14 something for an extended period of time,

15 correct?

16 MR. ANEW: Yes, sir. In fact, what we did

17 is, if I understand right, if we just put

18 that level out of there it cost us something

19 around 6,000, but because it's not mandatory

20 to put a title (unintelligible), so it's

21 almost doubled the cost now to put in that

22 sign. And it's purely to make sure that

23 this city takes advantage of this high level

24 courses or high level software business and



1 make an awareness amongst their people.

2 Particularly there is a lot of schools

3 around, a lot people are traveling around so

4 it would be a good events for a lot of those

5 people there.

6 MEMBER FISCHER: I know it may seem like I'm

7 kind of beating a bit of a dead horse there,

8 but I wanted to make sure that those two --

9 MEMBER SANGHVI: I'm sure you didn't intend

10 any pun.

11 MEMBER FISCHER: Are very clear because like

12 I said I would compare the events to, the

13 intent of the Ordinance is for changing

14 events so people can be made aware of

15 certain events, and that's what I think that

16 this sign is trying to do. It's not purely

17 flashing and advertising.

18 And number two, I had serious concerns if it

19 was a continuously changing sign as far as

20 the public safety. People going 50 miles

21 per hour watching something flash by. So,

22 given those two facts regarding this

23 particular sign I feel that this sign is

24 within the intent of where the Ordinance was



1 trying to go and I would be willing to

2 support this unique instance.

3 Thank you, Mr. Chair, for the opportunity

4 and I apologize for the joke about Andrew

5 Jackson.

6 MEMBER SANGHVI: That's no problem. That's

7 okay, I am quite used to it. Yes?

8 MEMBER KRIEGER: I agree with the previous

9 speaker and he stole my word unique.

10 MEMBER SANGHVI: Okay. Yes, Mr. Shroyer?

11 MEMBER SHROYER: The Board basically has

12 convinced me to change my mind.

13 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes, Mr. Saven, are you

14 saying something? (Unintelligible).

15 MR. SHROYER: For a couple reasons and one

16 would be I would be in support of a Motion

17 if the provisions are as we just discussed

18 through Mr. Fischer, and because I have for

19 quite some time said that the City building

20 needs that kind of sign out front, the

21 changeable copy sign and they're not listed

22 in this either. It doesn't say anything

23 about governmental buildings

24 (unintelligible) so that is unique as well.



1 So with those thoughts in mind I would be

2 willing to support if somebody would make a

3 Motion.

4 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. Yes, Mr. Saven?

5 MR. SAVEN: Mr. Chair, I do appreciate all

6 the comments and certainly Mr. Fischer

7 stepping up to the plate in terms of being

8 specific to this sign. But I just want to

9 caution the Board, somewhere along the line

10 you are going to be dealing with a lot of

11 this stuff that may be coming forward in

12 regard to this particular issue and I want

13 to make sure that the intent or what the

14 intent of the Ordinance is trying to do is

15 basically what you guys are looking at.

16 Because you could have every business

17 looking kind of at the same thing here. And

18 I am not trying to sway anybody one way or

19 the other.

20 I think what you did, you figured

21 out what it was that this gentleman is

22 trying to deal with, and that's good. But

23 just bear in mind, signage in this city is

24 so critical to every business here and this



1 is one of the things that you are going to

2 be looking at. So take into account, you

3 have already heard this gentleman and you

4 heard his appeal, it sounds to me like you

5 are satisfied with what he is indicating,

6 what the intent of the Ordinance is, but

7 this is like a whole can of worms here. I

8 am just indicating that.

9 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. Thank you for

10 your warning, sir. I appreciate your

11 comments. But my mind is made up. Thank

12 you.

13 Go ahead, sir.

14 MEMBER BAUER: One last little thing. This

15 is as an education item, correct?

16 MR. ANEW: Yes, sir.

17 MEMBER BAUER: You are selling something,

18 correct?

19 MR. ANEW: No, this is not a charge for.

20 MEMBER BAUER: You are not charging for the

21 students?

22 MR. ANEW: For the demos we don't charge

23 anything. It is a showcase for the

24 products.



1 MEMBER BAUER: So, you are not charging for

2 the students, am I correct?

3 MR. ANEW: Yes, sir, we don't charge for the

4 students.

5 MEMBER BAUER: I can't say anything else.

6 Because education would be as the same thing

7 as for a school building, for an automobile

8 dealership. You are selling something.

9 MR. ANEW: The larger benefit to where we

10 get to the (unintelligible) of this

11 particular --

12 MEMBER BAUER: I like the intent, believe

13 me.

14 MR. ANEW: Yes, sir.

15 MEMBER BAUER: But what the Ordinance is

16 calling for at this time our forefathers

17 must have left something out. But I still

18 would have to vote no. Thank you.

19 MEMBER SANGHVI: All right. Well, I wish I

20 could make a Motion but I don't want to. Go

21 ahead.

22 MEMBER GATT: I would like to make a Motion

23 in case number: 06-099 filed by Luciano

24 Gonzalez of Planet Neon Signs for Miracle



1 Software located at 45625 Grand River

2 Avenue. I would like to make a Motion to

3 grant the variance requested for a 30.75

4 square foot ground sign with a changeable

5 copy message center included due to the fact

6 that this is a unique property and the

7 uniqueness of the services provided, and

8 without this variance there would be a

9 significant hardship to the company. Thank

10 you.

11 MEMBER FISCHER: Amendment. A couple things.

12 First of all, I just want to point out that

13 the Board used practical difficulty as the

14 element upon the set of hardship for one

15 amendment. And number two, I would strongly

16 urge that we discuss the intent of the

17 Ordinance, and that was the major reason for

18 moving to approve this, that this sign meets

19 the intent of the Ordinance, this particular

20 and very unique sign and the use of this

21 sign meet the intent of the Ordinance. So

22 if I could make those two friendly

23 amendments.

24 MEMBER GATT: Agreed.



1 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes, Mr. Shroyer?

2 MEMBER SHROYER: Are you going to consider

3 putting in any provisions, times and lengths

4 and things along those lines and that it

5 would be only limited to the training

6 activities? Are do you put it in the realm

7 of a school or similar to those of Rock

8 Financial?

9 MEMBER GATT: I can put in a provision to

10 state that the changeable copy display only

11 events for the property, but I don't want to

12 put a specific time limit on an event. What

13 if one event is every day, and if we say

14 every seven days that would be something

15 that would be an issue. Do we say only to

16 be changed every 24 hours? I don't know.

17 MEMBER SHROYER: I guess I'm just looking

18 for a little more detail to help justify why

19 this sign and how it can be approved because

20 as the City stated, or indirectly stated, we

21 could see the entire Grand River Avenue with

22 nothing but changeable signs and you would

23 accidents one after another trying to read

24 all of them as you are going down the road.



1 So I want to see something more unique if

2 possible as to specifics. And I don't want

3 to put words in anybody's mouth.

4 MEMBER SANGHVI: Would you like to exchange?

5 MEMBER FISCHER: If you have any suggestions

6 I think the Board would be up to hearing any

7 suggestions and then the Motion maker could

8 decide whether he would accept that

9 suggestion.

10 MEMBER SHROYER: I think one of them would

11 be limited to training activities and not to

12 include any merchandise or retail sales

13 activities or something similar to that or

14 verbiage similar to that, and something that

15 perhaps would mirror the fact that training

16 activities are also going on in schools

17 which does fall within our guidelines. And

18 it's a specific event that does fall within

19 the guidelines of places such as Rock

20 Financial. I am just trying to tie some

21 things in so the next applicant that comes

22 forward and says, you know, I want it too,

23 we have something to point out as to the

24 reasons why this one was approved and theirs



1 may not be.

2 MEMBER FISCHER: I kind of see where you are

3 going with that. The one thing I would say

4 is that it's not our job to prove to the

5 petitioner why we're not going to approve

6 the next person.

7 Just for example I was driving

8 down and I saw Johnson Printing right next

9 door, if I may. And I thought, well, what

10 if they come before us. First of all, it's

11 not our job to prove that they can't have

12 it. They have to prove why they have

13 difficulty. And in that instance they don't

14 have the training center, they don't have

15 the training sessions going on, so I would

16 have no problem denying such a hypothetical

17 case. You know obviously if they came

18 before us I would look at that, but each

19 case is looked uniquely and we don't look, I

20 don't and I don't think we are instructed to

21 look at past cases.

22 So I like, I kind of see where

23 you are going with some of those, but I

24 don't think we necessarily need to put



1 restrictions on them in order to stop

2 someone else from coming before us. The

3 biggest thing is they have the burden of

4 proof.

5 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you.

6 MEMBER GATT: My concern about adding a

7 provision to my Motion to limit the types of

8 verbiage that can be placed on the sign is

9 that I don't know exactly what type of

10 training, like I said, it's only for

11 software training or in classes. What if

12 they have a convention of some type, you

13 know, we don't have a blanketed -- if we

14 don't have a blanketed statement that says

15 they can put anything that is related to

16 this company on it, I can leave out things,

17 I could say as long as it doesn't include

18 any type of retail or merchandising

19 displays, that I would be okay with amending

20 my Motion with that.

21 MEMBER SHROYER: That would help.

22 MEMBER SANGHVI: Okay. Go ahead.

23 MS. OZGA: I was just going to question,

24 what are you amending your Motion to say



1 exactly?

2 MEMBER FISCHER: I think we are still kind

3 of conversing --

4 MS. OZGA: No, because I was just going to

5 comment on Mr. Shroyer's comment. It would

6 be appropriate if you attempted to

7 distinguish this applicant's situation from

8 the general situation in the city to show

9 that this, if this is the route that the

10 Board is going, to show that this is a

11 unique property compared to general

12 property, general commercial businesses,

13 things like that.

14 MEMBER SHROYER: I also have another

15 question while we're on that. If the

16 property sales and another group comes in.

17 They already have a monument sign, obviously

18 they would have to get approval to the

19 change the name on the sign, it went to ABC

20 Construction, but now they got a changeable

21 sign there with their name on it. Are they

22 going to be permitted to use the changeable

23 sign?

24 MEMBER FISCHER: We can stick to this



1 business only. We have done it in the past.

2 MR. AMOLSCH: Limit it to this Petitioner

3 only?


5 MEMBER SHROYER: Then I would like to see

6 that be added to the Motion as well.

7 MEMBER SANGHVI: To this particular

8 business.

9 MEMBER GATT: Okay, I would like to amend my

10 Motion to include the provision that A, this

11 variance is only for this Petitioner and no

12 other. B, the changeable copy sign

13 display -- not display any type of retail or

14 merchandising. And C, that this is due to

15 the fact that this is an extremely unique

16 business and the business of having training

17 seminars and the like is not -- how do I

18 want to put this?

19 MEMBER SHROYER: Is acceptable.

20 MEMBER GATT: Is acceptable.

21 MEMBER FISCHER: I would second.

22 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you.

23 MEMBER FISCHER: I would second the amended

24 Motion.



1 MEMBER SANGHVI: The Motion has been made

2 and seconded. Any further discussion, any

3 comments from anybody else?

4 MR. SAVEN: I will shut up.

5 MEMBER SANGHVI: Seeing none, Ms. Working,

6 would you please call the roll.

7 ROBIN WORKING: Member Gatt?


9 ROBIN WORKING: Member Fischer?


11 ROBIN WORKING: Member Krieger?


13 ROBIN WORKING: Member Bauer?


15 ROBIN WORKING: Member Shroyer?


17 ROBIN WORKING: Member Sanghvi?


19 ROBIN WORKING: Motion passes 5-1.

20 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you.

21 MR. ANEW: Thank you.

22 MR. SANGHVI: All right. That takes care of

23 this.

24 Now, the other matters. ZBA training dates



1 February 13th or the 27th.

2 ROBIN WORKING: Mr. Chair, it was brought to

3 the attention of the Board two months ago by

4 Member Fischer that we might entertain a

5 training event in regards to bringing the

6 Board up to speed on the current Ordinance

7 changes as well as establishing practical

8 difficulty and hardships in their Motion.

9 Mr. Schultz has given us two dates to choose

10 from. He would like for you to choose one

11 of those two dates for the training program

12 for Tuesday.

13 MEMBER SANGHVI: February 13th is good date

14 for me.

15 MEMBER FISCHER: I like the earlier date as

16 well.

17 MEMBER KRIEGER: It's okay with me.

18 MEMBER SANGHVI: Okay. It looks like it's

19 going to be February 13th.

20 ROBIN WORKING: February 13th.

21 MEMBER FISCHER: Do we have a time on that,

22 Robin?

23 ROBIN WORKING: Not yet.

24 MEMBER FISCHER: I am assuming it would be



1 somewhere around the time that the meeting

2 starts?

3 ROBIN WORKING: That was my understanding

4 when I corresponded with Mr. Schultz.

5 MEMBER GATT: I would request that it

6 wouldn't be a later time, at the time of a

7 regular Zoning Board meeting.


9 MEMBER GATT: That would be the only way I

10 would be able to attend.

11 MEMBER SANGHVI: Okay. Mr. Saven?

12 MR. SAVEN: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It's

13 been brought to my attention that the

14 Planning Commission is entertaining the fact

15 that it's starting at 7:00 much like the

16 Council has been doing at this time. We

17 have touched base with this issue once

18 before, based upon some of the concerns of

19 those Board members whether or not we wanted

20 to do this, I would like to bring this up to

21 the Board at this time to see whether or not

22 you wish to entertain that 7:00 time and if

23 so, let us know.

24 It's difficult to get here after



1 work or whatever we need to function.

2 MEMBER SANGHVI: That is correct. And we

3 shall function.

4 MEMBER BAUER: Do we function better with

5 something to eat?

6 MEMBER KRIEGER: Order dinner.

7 MEMBER FISCHER: Are we allowed to make

8 comments? I know that currently, I know

9 that Mr. Gatt has a difficult time. I cut

10 it a little close each time. And Member

11 Krieger, she usually sometimes has to move

12 her schedule around. I see the intention of

13 the Planning Commission and City Council,

14 they often go a lot later than we do. And I

15 think they also have a larger viewership

16 than we do and I think they try to meet

17 those by having that earlier start time.

18 But given our current makeup of the Board I

19 would prefer to leave it at 7:30.

20 Thank you, Mr. Chair.

21 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you.

22 MR. SAVEN: There was one objection, I

23 probably wouldn't entertain it.

24 MEMBER SANGHVI: I think we are all right as



1 we are.

2 MR. SAVEN: Okay, that's fine.

3 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you.

4 MR. SAVEN: I just thought I would bring it

5 up.

6 MEMBER FISCHER: About a new building

7 official, though?

8 MEMBER SANGHVI: Okay. (Unintelligible).

9 The Chair will entertain a Motion to

10 Adjourn.

11 (Unintelligible): So moved.

12 MEMBER SANGHVI: So moved. Meeting is

13 adjourned. Thank you.

14 (The meeting was adjourned

15 at 10:05 p.m.)












1 C E R T I F I C A T E



4 I, Mona L. Talton, do hereby certify

5 that I have recorded stenographically the

6 proceedings had and testimony taken in the

7 above-entitled matter at the time and place

8 hereinbefore set forth, and I do further

9 certify that the foregoing transcript,

10 consisting of (117) typewritten pages, is a

11 true and correct transcript of my said

12 stenographic notes.






18 _____________________________

19 Mona L. Talton,

20 Certified Shorthand Reporter


22 January 22, 2007