| View Agenda for this meeting View Action Summary for this meeting REGULAR MEETING - ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS Proceedings had and testimony taken in the matters of the ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS, at City of Novi, 45175 West Ten Mile Road, Novi, Michigan, Tuesday, October 3, 2006. BOARD MEMBERS ALSO PRESENT: REPORTED BY: 1 Novi, Michigan 2 Tuesday, October 3, 2006 3 7:30 p.m. 4 - - - - - - 5 MEMBER SANGHVI: I'd like to call to order the 6 October 2006 meeting of the City of Novi Zoning Board of 7 Appeals. 8 Would you please all rise and join me in the 9 Pledge of Allegiance. 10 BOARD MEMBERS: I pledge allegiance to the flag 11 of the United State of America. And to the Republic for 12 which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible with 13 liberty and justice for all. 14 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. 15 Ms. Working, would you please call the roll. 16 ROBIN WORKING: Member Bauer? 17 MEMBER BAUER: Present. 18 ROBIN WORKING: Member Canup? 19 MEMBER CANUP: Here. 20 ROBIN WORKING: Member Fischer? 21 MEMBER FISCHER: Present. 22 ROBIN WORKING: Member Gatt? 23 MEMBER SANGHVI: He will be coming in a little 24 bit.
4 1 ROBIN WORKING: Member Gatt has informed us he 2 will be here about 30 minutes late. 3 Member Krieger? 4 MEMBER KRIEGER: Here. 5 ROBIN WORKING: Member Sanghvi? 6 MEMBER SANGHVI: Here. 7 ROBIN WORKING: Member Shroyer? 8 MEMBER SHROYER: Here. 9 ROBIN WORKING: All present, with the exception 10 of Mr. Gatt. 11 MEMBER SANGHVI: Very good. We do have a quorum 12 and the meeting is now in session. 13 I would like to go over the rules of conduct. 14 You can find them on the agenda. Just to remind you that 15 to please turn off your cell phones and pagers. 16 And individual applicants may take up to five 17 minutes and the groups may take up to ten minutes. 18 Let me go to the next item. (Unintelligible.) 19 ROBIN WORKING: Mr. Chairman, I would just like 20 to note that we can put under other matters a date change 21 for the 2007 ZBA calendar. 22 MEMBER SANGHVI: All right. That's fine with 23 me. All right. And we will go ahead. And would anybody 24 like to make a Motion to accept the agenda?
5 1 MEMBER BAUER: So moved. 2 MR. FISCHER: Second. 3 MEMBER SANGHVI: All those in favor of approving 4 the agenda please signify by saying aye. 5 BOARD MEMBERS: Aye. 6 MEMBER SANGHVI: All those opposed same sign. 7 We have an agenda. 8 I don't think we have any meetings here today, 9 so we will move onto the next thing is public remarks 10 section at this point. 11 If anybody would like to address the Board for 12 anything, other than the cases which are here today on the 13 agenda, you can come up right now and do it. 14 Thank you. Come on. 15 MR. HAROLD: Hi, my name is Ed Harold, Varsity 16 Lincoln Mercury. We were on the agenda for a sign 17 ordinance and approval of a new business coming in, 18 Varsity Lincoln Mercury. The architectural didn't get in 19 in time, so we would like to postpone it until next month. 20 MEMBER SANGHVI: Very good, thank you. Yeah, 21 (unintelligible) no problem and we will take note of it 22 and move that way when the time comes. 23 All right. So we are already in the public 24 remarks section. Nobody is here for anything else that I
6 1 see. 2 So we will call the first case in. Tabled Case 3 Number 06-072, 41730 Crane Way filed by Singh Homes. 4 Would you please identify yourself, would you 5 state your name and address and be sworn in by our 6 secretary and make your presentation. 7 Thank you. 8 MR. TUCKER: Hi, my name is Russ Tucker. I work 9 for Singh Homes. I live at 5471 Parkside Drive in 10 Brighton, Michigan. 11 MEMBER BAUER: Raise your right hand. 12 Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth 13 regarding case: 06-072? 14 MR. TUCKER: I do. 15 MEMBER BAUER: Thank you, sir. 16 Go ahead. 17 MR. TUCKER: So, as it states, we have a 18 temporary construction trailer. We are asking for renewal 19 of at this address. It's the Tollgate Woods Subdivision, 20 and we have an existing construction operation there, 21 where we build single family homes. We use the trailers 22 for (unintelligible), internet access, meetings with 23 contractors, customers, storage. And, you know, we also 24 meet city inspectors out there from time to time and house
7 1 our approved plans and stuff we use to build the homes 2 for. So we're looking to renew that permit. 3 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. 4 Building Department? 5 MEMBER SAVEN: Well, first and foremost, the 6 temporary construction trailers come under the what we 7 call a temporary use of -- portion of the Zoning Board -- 8 or the Zoning Ordinance. And as the Building Official, I 9 have the authority to deal with this over a period of 10 time. Based on the fact that this is -- this is more than 11 after a year or two, it's time to move it onto a different 12 Board at this particular time. This is a move, and the 13 move is consistent with the construction that's going on 14 in this particular area. Where he has proposed the 15 building on that particular lot is not in any way going to 16 affect the existing homes that are there. 17 The only thing that I do get concerned about is 18 the construction trafficking and making sure that we're 19 not having any cement trucks backing up to or coming 20 closer to the existing homes. Where this is located is 21 pretty well much in a vacant area of that subdivision. 22 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. 23 There were -- 22 notices were mailed; zero 24 approvals, zero objections, and out of 22, 20 were
8 1 returned. 2 Okay, I have no personal comments to make. I'll 3 open up to the Board. 4 Yes, Mr. Canup? 5 MEMBER CANUP: Seems like this is a pretty 6 simple case. And if there was no discussion on it, I 7 would make a Motion. 8 MEMBER SANGHVI: Go ahead. 9 MEMBER CANUP: In that case, I would make a 10 Motion that Case Number 06-072, that we grant the variance 11 as requested due to a practical hardship dealing with the 12 Ordinance, and having a temporary construction trailer 13 on-site to meet the needs of the workers. 14 MEMBER BAUER: Second. 15 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. 16 The Motion has been made and seconded. 17 Any -- 18 Yes, Mr. Shroyer? 19 MEMBER SHROYER: The request is for two years. 20 Did you want to put a time frame in your Motion? 21 MEMBER CANUP: I read that and was 22 comfortable with two years, because of the present state 23 of our economy. 24 MEMBER SHROYER: Okay. I just want to make sure,
9 1 because sometimes we look at changing the timeline. 2 MEMBER CANUP: Is that something that, Mr. 3 Shroyer, that you'd rather not see or -- 4 MEMBER SHROYER: I'm open. 5 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. 6 Anybody else? 7 No? 8 All right. Ms. Working, would you please call 9 the roll. 10 ROBIN WORKING: Member Canup? 11 MEMBER CANUP: Yes. 12 ROBIN WORKING: Member Fischer? 13 MEMBER FISCHER: Aye. 14 ROBIN WORKING: Member Krieger? 15 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes. 16 ROBIN WORKING: Member Sanghvi? 17 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes. 18 ROBIN WORKING: Member Shroyer? 19 MEMBER SHROYER: Yes. 20 ROBIN WORKING: Member Bauer? 21 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 22 ROBIN WORKING: Motion passes 6-0. 23 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. 24 All right. Well, you got your permit and good
10 1 luck. 2 MR. HAROLD: Thank you very much. 3 4 MEMBER SANGHVI: Next case number on the agenda 5 is Case Number: 06-073, filed by ABC Sign & Awning Design 6 for Crowne Plaza located at 27000 Sheraton Drive. 7 Would you please identify yourself? 8 JASON: Hi, my name is Jason. I'm with ABC 9 Signs, and I'm here to request a sign variance to change 10 the existing sign and have a whole (unintelligible.) 11 MEMBER SANGHVI: Okay. Would you please be 12 sworn in by our secretary, please. 13 MEMBER BAUER: Raise you right hand. 14 Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth 15 regarding Case: 06-073? 16 JASON: I do. 17 MEMBER BAUER: Thank you. 18 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. Please carry on. 19 JASON: As we know (Unintelligible), and since 20 then we tried to work with the existing signs. We didn't 21 have any problem with the -- actually, we had five -- four 22 small signs and one high-rise sign. The only sign we had 23 the problem with is the monumental sign, which located 24 inside, actually facing the front address of the hotel.
11 1 The way they made it, it's too much customized 2 to the old logo which is Doubletree logo. So we tried to 3 work with this sign with the new hotel, and tried to match 4 whatever we had with the Crowne Plaza, like sign criteria, 5 but we couldn't because of -- actually the circle accent 6 on the top of the sign and the way they made it. So 7 unfortunately we couldn't do that. We couldn't work with 8 this sign, with this particular sign. 9 The rest of the sign, we didn't have any problem 10 with. We working on. We pulled the building permit to 11 put the new name up. So that's the only sign we need to 12 replace in order to put the new name on it and move it 13 over. 14 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. 15 Is there anybody in the audience who would like 16 to make any comments about this case? 17 Seeing none, Building Department? 18 MR. AMOLSCH: We have no comment, sir. 19 MEMBER SANGHVI: No comment, very good. 20 We had -- 47 notices were mailed; zero 21 approvals, zero objections. 22 Open up to the Board. 23 Any comments from anybody? 24 Yes, Mr. Shroyer?
12 1 MEMBER SHROYER: I suppose I could start here. 2 A couple questions for the City. 3 You talked about being a non-conforming sign. 4 Is that because it's a different company, a different 5 hotel, or because it exceeds the maximum size and height? 6 MR. AMOLSCH: Actually, it's a structural 7 alteration of the existing sign that was originally 8 approved for the Sheraton some years ago. The sign that's 9 being proposed is actually four feet shorter and about ten 10 square feet less in area than the original sign was 11 approved for back in '81. 12 MEMBER SHROYER: Okay. Were there variances 13 granted for the first sign originally? 14 MR. AMOLSCH: Yes. 15 MEMBER SHROYER: I calculated that it was about 16 four feet lower, four feet shorter; square footage is 17 about maybe five square feet smaller. 18 Does that sound about correct? 19 MR. AMOLSCH: The original variance was for 216 20 square foot sign, 50 feet tall. 21 MEMBER SHROYER: That's all I have, 22 Mr. Chairman. Thank you. 23 MEMBER SANGHVI: Anybody else? 24 Yes, Mr. Canup?
13 1 MEMBER CANUP: I know the sign looks good, and 2 it's under an old variance; if I understood that 3 correctly. And it's lesser now than what it was; and it's 4 I wouldn't say no lesser attractive than it was. 5 So if there's no further discussion I would like 6 to make a Motion. 7 MEMBER SANGHVI: Please go ahead. 8 MEMBER CANUP: I make a Motion that in Crowne 9 Plaza located at 27000 Novi Road(sic) Case Number: 10 06-073, we grant the request as stated, due to existing 11 nonconforming sign. And the only change in it is the 12 downsizing and its verbiage. 13 MEMBER BAUER: Second the Motion. 14 MEMBER SANGHVI: The Motion has been made and 15 seconded. 16 Seconded by Mr. Bauer. 17 Yes, Mr. Fischer? 18 MEMBER FISCHER: 27000, did you say Sheraton or 19 Novi? 20 MEMBER CANUP: Did I say Novi Road? 21 MEMBER SANGHVI: Sheraton -- 22 MEMBER FISCHER: Sheraton Drive, to make sure of 23 the address. 24 Thank you.
14 1 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. 2 All right. Any other discussion? 3 Seeing none, please call the roll. 4 ROBIN WORKING: Member Canup? 5 MEMBER CANUP: Yes. 6 ROBIN WORKING: Member Fischer? 7 MEMBER FISCHER: Aye. 8 ROBIN WORKING: Member Krieger? 9 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes. 10 ROBIN WORKING: Member Sanghvi? 11 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes. 12 ROBIN WORKING: Member Shroyer? 13 MEMBER SHROYER: Yes. 14 ROBIN WORKING: Mr. Bauer? 15 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 16 ROBIN WORKING: Motion passes 6-0. 17 MEMBER SANGHVI: Very good. 18 Thank you. 19 JASON: One more issue. 20 Can I ask for some clarification for the -- 21 since the City adopted a new sign Ordinance, digital signs 22 are allowed now in the city; is that correct? 23 MEMBER SANGHVI: What he is talking about? 24 JASON: Digital signs.
15 1 MEMBER KRIEGER: (Unintelligible.) 2 JASON: A digital sign, like (unintelligible.) 3 MR. SAVEN: The digital sign, you are taking a 4 digital sign? 5 JASON: Yes. 6 MR. SAVEN: Electronic message sign? 7 JASON: Right. 8 MR. SCHULTZ: Through the Chair. We'll get into 9 that at the other matters issue. But changeable copy 10 signs are permitted in certain districts for certain uses 11 which may or may not include a hotel. 12 We'll go through that in a little bit. 13 MEMBER SANGHVI: All right. 14 You can get in touch with the Building 15 Department regarding that question later on. 16 Thank you. 17 JASON: Okay, thanks. 18 19 MEMBER SANGHVI: All right, moving on. 20 Next one is Case Number: 06-075, filled by 21 William Eland for Wah Yee and Associates for David's 22 Bridal, located at 43831 West Oaks Drive. 23 And the Petitioner is here. And while he's 24 setting up he is requesting a variance to allow placement
16 1 of an accessory structure, a dumpster and enclosure in the 2 front yard of David's Bridal, a new tenant space in the 3 West Oaks 1 Shopping Center. 4 Could you identify yourself, sir, name and 5 address. 6 MR. VALENTINE: Ross Valentine. My address is 7 31500 Northwestern Highway, Farmington Hills. I'm a 8 private manager for (unintelligible.) 9 MEMBER BAUER: Raise your right hand. 10 Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth 11 regarding Case: 06-075? 12 MR. VALENTINE: Yes, I do. 13 MEMBER BAUER: Thank you. 14 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. 15 Please make your presentation. 16 MR. VALENTINE: Good evening. First of all, the 17 -- our new tenant, David Bridal, just opened up last 18 Thursday, I believe. We're trying to get a trash 19 enclosure in. And by the way the Ordinance is, we're not 20 allowed to put a trash enclosure in our front yard. 21 We have three front yards. We have Novi Road, 22 which is on this side of West Oaks 1; we have West Oaks 23 Drive, which is on the north side; and we is Donaldson 24 Drive and Connolly. David's Bridal is right here in the
17 1 corner of Gander Mountain. 2 So I'm asking -- we have a hardship here, and 3 what I'm asking for is a variance that we can put a trash 4 enclosure -- which if you look at the blowup down below -- 5 if I can point here -- we're right back in the corner of 6 an enclosed area. The doors face towards the David's 7 Bridal, which on the overall site plan is way back here in 8 this corner. 9 That will take approximately four parking spaces 10 up. 11 And I'm open for questions. 12 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. 13 I don't think (unintelligible) if anybody's 14 there, this is the time to do it. 15 I don't see anybody coming through. 16 Thank you. 17 Building Department? 18 MR. SAVEN: I think if we go back into the 19 -- what the Planning Review people have looked at as far 20 as this is concerned, we're talking about the approval 21 subject to the placement of the dumpster. A dumpster is 22 definitely needed in this particular operation. It's 23 unfortunate that this gentleman is basically locked in on 24 three sides. (Unintelligible) has got to have a place to
18 1 put it somewhere. 2 And I don't know what else to say. It's up 3 to the Board to say if that's an appropriate area. 4 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. 5 Okay. (Unintelligible) three notices were 6 mailed, with no approvals, zero objections. 7 Open it up to the Board. 8 Before that, maybe I should make 9 (unintelligible) to myself in that there's no other place 10 to put this any way. 11 Thank you. 12 Yes, Mr. Fischer, first. 13 MEMBER FISCHER: Mr. Schultz, just a 14 clarification in this case. When we're looking at it, can 15 you clarify which standard of proof we need to be looking 16 at, whether it would be an undue hardship or a practical 17 difficulty. So when I'm speaking and if the Motion is 18 made, we can make sure that that's used. 19 Would this be considered a use variance? 20 MR. SCHULTZ: Through the Chair. 21 This is not a use variance. This is the 22 lesser standard of a practical difficulty as a non-use 23 (unintelligible.) 24 MR. FISCHER: Perfect. That clears up a
19 1 couple things. 2 As you said, it is a less stringent 3 standard to set by. 4 I agree with it having three front yards, 5 there really is no other option. And it's really not a 6 self created issue either. Lastly, it really doesn't 7 alter the essential area; the character of the area. 8 So I don't seem to have a problem with it. 9 Thank you, Mr. Chair. 10 (Whereupon Member Gatt entered the 11 meeting.) 12 MEMBER SAVEN: I am sorry, but I did want 13 you to take a look at the letter from the Planning 14 Department, please. 15 Based on the fact on the flip side -- and 16 it's basically underlined -- is they're basically 17 supporting this particular location, in fact. But they 18 had asked that another condition be placed on this. And I 19 wanted to make sure that if you are entertaining the 20 thought of doing this, that that condition be 21 (unintelligible). 22 MEMBER FISCHER: Correct. I do have that 23 written down, and would appropriate that as a condition of 24 any Motion.
20 1 Thank you, Mr. Chair. 2 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes, thank you. 3 Yes, Mr. Bauer? 4 MEMBER BAUER: Don? 5 MR. SAVEN: Yes. 6 MEMBER BAUER: For any business that comes 7 in, we should have a letter (unintelligible) okaying that; 8 am I correct? 9 MR. SAVEN: That is correct, that is 10 correct. 11 MEMBER BAUER: We can approve it -- 12 MR. SAVEN: Subject to -- 13 MEMBER BAUER: -- subject to the letter. 14 MR. SAVEN: That will be fine. 15 MEMBER SANGHVI: Okay. 16 Thank you. All right. 17 Yes, (unintelligible). 18 MEMBER KRIEGER: The maps that are 19 displayed there are the same as what we received? 20 MR. VALENTINE: I believe the bottom one is 21 the one that you received, which is a blowup of the 22 David's Bridal area. I just brought the overall site 23 plan, so that you could see the Novi Road and a better 24 orientation.
21 1 MEMBER KRIEGER: Just so the viewers know 2 that they are the same. 3 MR. VALENTINE: They are the same. 4 MEMBER SANGHVI: Okay. 5 Anything else? 6 Yes, Mr. Fischer? 7 MEMBER FISCHER: If there's no further 8 discussion, I would move that in Case Number: 06-075, 9 filed by William Eland for David's Bridal at 43831 West 10 Oaks Drive, that we approve the Petitioner's request due 11 to practical difficulty, given that the situation is 12 unique with the three front roads; and that it does 13 substantial injustice to this Petitioner, as well as the 14 surrounding businesses. With the condition that the 15 recommendations of the Building Department from their plan 16 review center report of September 7, 2006, be included -- 17 the subject to the construction of the enclosure. 18 MEMBER KRIEGER: Second. 19 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. 20 And one more condition is subject to 21 receiving the letter from Petitioner's landlord of the 22 property. 23 MEMBER FISCHER: Yes, as well as -- yes. 24 The approval of the landowner.
22 1 MEMBER BAUER: Second. 2 MEMBER SANGHVI: The Motion has been made 3 and seconded. 4 Any further discussion? 5 Yes, Mr. Shroyer? 6 MEMBER SHROYER: I just wanted to ask, do 7 we want to say Building Department or Planning Department? 8 MEMBER FISCHER: Plan review center report 9 of September 7th. That's -- 10 MEMBER SHROYER: In your motion you said 11 Building Department. 12 MEMBER FISCHER: Okay. 13 MEMBER SHROYER: I think we need to clarify 14 that. 15 MEMBER FISCHER: The document that was in 16 our packet, the recommendation of whoever it was. 17 MEMBER SANGHVI: Very nice. 18 MEMBER FISCHER: Thank you, Mr. Shroyer. 19 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you, Mr. Shroyer for 20 being so specific. 21 Thank you. 22 All right. Any further discussion? 23 Seeing none, Ms. Working, would you please 24 call the roll.
23 1 ROBIN WORKING: Member Fischer? 2 MEMBER FISCHER: Aye. 3 ROBIN WORKING: Member Krieger? 4 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes. 5 ROBIN WORKING: Member Sanghvi? 6 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes. 7 ROBIN WORKING: Member Shroyer? 8 MEMBER SHROYER: Yes. 9 ROBIN WORKING: Member Bauer? 10 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 11 ROBIN WORKING: Member Canup? 12 MEMBER CANUP: Yes. 13 ROBIN WORKING: Motion passes 6-0. 14 MR. VALENTINE: Thank you very much. 15 MEMBER SANGHVI: Go to the Building 16 Department and get your permit, and good luck to the new 17 bridal shop. 18 MR. VALENTINE: Thank you. 19 20 MEMBER SANGHVI: And moving on. We have 21 all heard from the applicant earlier. The next case is 22 number 06-076 filed by Rick Castanos of Varsity Lincoln 23 Mercury. 24 MEMBER FISCHER: Mr. Chair, may I have the
24 1 floor for a minute? 2 MEMBER SANGHVI: Sure. 3 MEMBER FISCHER: Going through the 4 information regarding conflicts of interest. As we know 5 this case is concerning Varsity Lincoln Mercury, and I am 6 an employee of the Ford Motor Company. However, this 7 parcel of land and this property and this business does 8 not represent any financial interest or personal interest 9 or true association to their organization; and, therefore, 10 I believe I can act impartially with respect to the 11 request. And so I will be sitting in on the case. 12 MEMBER BAUER: Absolutely. 13 MEMBER SANGHVI: That's no problem. 14 MEMBER FISCHER: Thank you. I know we will 15 probably be entertaining tabling, but I will remind you 16 next month, as well. 17 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you, again, for 18 being so technically correct. 19 MR. FISCHER: Thank you, Mr. Chair, for the 20 opportunity. 21 MEMBER SANGHVI: You all heard from the 22 applicant earlier. They would like this case to be 23 tabled. 24 So I would like to entertain a Motion.
25 1 MEMBER BAUER: Move to table Case 06-076 2 back to November (unintelligible) the applicant has had 3 problems getting his (unintelligible) together. 4 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. 5 MEMBER CANUP: Support. 6 MEMBER SANGHVI: Motion has been made and 7 seconded. 8 And I don't see any further discussion here. 9 Would you kindly call the roll, please. 10 ROBIN WORKING: Member Bauer? 11 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 12 ROBIN WORKING: Member Canup? 13 MEMBER CANUP: Yes. 14 ROBIN WORKING: Member Fischer? 15 MEMBER FISCHER: Aye. 16 ROBIN WORKING: Member Gatt? 17 MEMBER GATT: Yes. 18 ROBIN WORKING: Member Sanghvi? 19 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes. 20 ROBIN WORKING: Member Shroyer? 21 MEMBER SHROYER: Yes. 22 ROBIN WORKING: Motion passes 6-0. 23 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. 24 That concludes our hearing for the day
26 1 officially. 2 And then we move onto other matters. 3 And, in fact, do you want to go, Mr. Saven, and 4 talk about any of those things? 5 MR. SAVEN: Yes, I do have a couple of issues I 6 would like to bring up. 7 Most of you are aware that I'm very involved in 8 FEMA projects and the changes that have taken place over 9 time. We are now in the process of obtaining the new FEMA 10 maps, in which we do have at this particular point. Major 11 changes have been part of this particular program. 12 City Center Plaza was involved in the 13 variance where the City was having a difficult time doing 14 anything. So the maps (unintelligible) and it just came 15 about as it exists right now. I would ask that 16 consideration be for this particular Zoning Board of 17 Appeals case for the next six months, so they can 18 completely plan their project now, based upon the 19 information that we just received. It will take some time 20 to put this thing together. So I believe six months is 21 plenty enough time to do this for the Statute. 22 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. 23 Any discussion on his comments? 24 MEMBER BAUER: So moved.
27 1 MR. SANGHVI: So moved. 2 MEMBER CANUP: Support. 3 MEMBER SANGHVI: Support. 4 MR. SAVEN: Six months from this date. 5 (Interposing) (unintelligible.) 6 MEMBER SANGHVI: That's fine. 7 A Motion has been made (unintelligible) and 8 duly seconded. 9 And I don't see any further discussion. 10 So would you kindly call the roll. 11 ROBIN WORKING: Mr. Chairman, who made the 12 Motion? 13 MEMBER SANGHVI: Motion was made by 14 Mr. Bauer and supported by Mr. Canup. 15 ROBIN WORKING: Thank you. 16 Member Bauer? 17 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 18 ROBIN WORKING: Member Canup? 19 MEMBER CANUP: Yes. 20 ROBIN WORKING: Member Fischer? 21 MEMBER FISCHER: Aye. 22 ROBIN WORKING: Member Gatt? 23 MEMBER GATT: Yes. 24 ROBIN WORKING: Member Sanghvi?
28 1 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes. 2 ROBIN WORKING: Member Shroyer? 3 MEMBER SHROYER: Yes. 4 ROBIN WORKING: Motion passes 6-0. 5 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. 6 So, tell the City to go and get the permit. 7 I'm just kidding. 8 MR. SAVEN: This and the -- one of the 9 other issues before we get on to the new sign ordinance -- 10 which will fall right into that shortly. We have a number 11 of projects that are be coming or will be coming before us 12 that is dealing with phase construction. And I guess I'm 13 more in tuned to the Board over many years. I've sat as 14 an advisor with the Board as to what you want to see; how 15 you want to be able to approach certain conditions. 16 There is a project that will be coming 17 before us -- I want to say shortly, that have a numerous 18 amount of variances, but it's done per phase. And 19 sometimes those phases won't come before us until such 20 time -- basically at such time that they're going to be 21 ready to go before the Planning Commission for that 22 particular project. 23 This particular project will probably have 24 about six or seven variances, major variances. They're
29 1 dealing with quite a few buildings. And the way that I'm 2 looking at this would probably be something that we would 3 take a look at the overall of everything that is there 4 first; not to take up the Board's time with all the 5 variances that are there. But I believe that you should 6 have a general idea of what the variances are going to be 7 for these particular projects, and then attack the project 8 itself that's being before you. 9 Unfortunately, situations like this do 10 occur, but I think -- I don't want to put such a burden on 11 the Board that there's going to be a lot of confusion in 12 terms of the variances that are necessary. I think I'd 13 just like for you to take a look at the project as to what 14 the variances that they may be requesting, and then come 15 back and afford those variances at another time. 16 Normally everyone in the Board would want 17 everything done right now. Chances are that variance may 18 change down the road or there might be something that 19 might be different for the variance, not for that 20 particular project. But I think the Board should be aware 21 of those concerns. 22 So that's how I'm going to approach this. 23 If it's reasonable with the Board? Does that sound 24 agreeable?
30 1 MEMBER SANGHVI: It sounds good to me. 2 MEMBER BAUER: Only way to do it. 3 MR. SAVEN: Fine. 4 Thank you. 5 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes, Mr. Schultz. 6 MR. SCHULTZ: Mr. Chair, Members of the 7 Board, Don Saven had asked that we be available to give a 8 little bit of overview on the new sign Ordinance. I'm not 9 sure how much detail the Board wants to get into, since I 10 think the first pitch was just thrown; but I will try to 11 do this pretty quickly, if that's, indeed, what -- 12 MEMBER SANGHVI: Give us the three minute 13 version. 14 MR. SCHULTZ: Give you the three minute 15 version -- 16 MEMBER SANGHVI: Just kidding. 17 MR. SCHULTZ: I can do that. 18 MEMBER FISCHER: A quick question. 19 It's been a year since we have had our last 20 seminar, and we have new Board Members. Would it be 21 possible to throw in another seminar where we could go 22 over these? 23 MR. SCHULTZ: Sure. 24 MEMBER FISCHER: And would the Board be
31 1 into entertaining that? 2 It's up to you guys, but I mean I don't 3 think that's a bad idea. We can go over the old rules, as 4 well as the new rules. 5 MEMBER SANGHVI: I think it would take 6 quite a long time to go through all these items. We would 7 need some time to study these (unintelligible) since we do 8 have time, and that probably would be a better forum. 9 MR. SAVEN: May I make a suggestion? 10 Just maybe you want to highlight a couple 11 items. 12 Just highlight a few of the items that are 13 here before you. 14 I don't know whether you guys seen this, 15 but I was really upset about this article. I about went 16 through the ceiling. And unfortunately what we go through 17 on this Board, we're not out here to put any business out 18 of -- put any places out of business here. But I found 19 that was very difficult for me to swallow. And I think 20 from the standpoint of view what the major issues that we 21 had -- I know that there's at least three that we're 22 looking at here that are hot issues. 23 So this is going to give you an idea of 24 what the changes are for what we're dealing with in the
32 1 sign ordinance. And it's major changes, even from the 2 time that I started with this Board several years ago. I 3 mean, I'm focused in on one sign and one sign only; this 4 type of a thing, and I'm not aware of the little bit more 5 freedom that was there. 6 MEMBER FISCHER: If Mr. Schultz wants to 7 hit, you know, two hours so we can round up and get the 8 extra billing, then we can (unintelligible) three points. 9 Maybe just if Robin can start thinking about putting a 10 seminar together for us again, I think that would be a 11 good idea too, to go in depth. 12 So, thank you, Mr. Chair. 13 MEMBER SANGHVI: Would you like to make a 14 formal Motion requesting that? 15 MR. SCHULTZ: Well, it's not necessary. 16 We'll send some dates over to Mr. Fischer 17 personally. 18 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. 19 MR. SCHULTZ: One thing I would say, there 20 are a couple changes. One is going to be relevant to the 21 Board's next meeting. There might be several that'll be 22 relevant. 23 There are a couple of sections in the 24 Ordinance where additional signs were granted --
33 1 restaurants get an extra sign, for example; some 2 additional wall signs on businesses where -- in office 3 areas where there -- buildings are large and have multiple 4 tenants who have large spaces. 5 And then, you know, as the gentleman 6 pointed out, we have got some provisions in here for 7 things like changeable copy signs that weren't in there 8 before. Those kinds of details we can go over. But one 9 thing that did change was the standard for granting 10 variances for signs. You are going to find that at the 11 end of the Ordinance. One of the things that Boards of 12 Appeal -- ZBA's that mostly do zoning variances have, you 13 know, from (unintelligible) complain about, is that the 14 standard, the practical difficulty standard in the Zoning 15 Ordinance is really difficult for -- to apply to a sign. 16 Because it's really contemplated that it's 17 got possible or at least very difficult to use the 18 property. Kind of like the case with the three front 19 yards. For signs it's kind of hard to say that, you know, 20 something bad is really going to happen if you don't get 21 an extra sign. 22 So on page 39, we have changed the 23 standards to be a little bit more realistic and a little 24 bit more applicable to a situation where somebody is
34 1 asking for a sign variance. Not that it's completely 2 relaxed or anything, but that it just reads a little bit 3 differently. Still kind of a three part test. You still 4 use the word practical difficulty or the phrase practical 5 difficulty; but instead of the substantial burden test as 6 the first test, the Board will look for circumstances or 7 features that are exceptional and unique to the property; 8 and not generally applicable to other places in the City. 9 And then the next standard is that you can 10 grant relief if the failure to do so would unreasonably 11 limit the use of the property more than a mere 12 inconvenience; but less probably than a land use variance 13 would be. 14 And then finally, the last provision talks 15 a little bit more in detail about making sure that you are 16 not adversely affecting adjacent property. So it's a 17 little bit differently written standard. It's a little 18 bit of a relaxation, but not, by any means, a complete 19 relaxation. And then kind of to help Don and Robin out, 20 we changed the notice provision so that they are not the 21 really difficult provisions that apply to zoning use 22 variances; which we're stuck with until they change the 23 Zoning Ordinance. But this is a sign ordinance separate 24 from the Zoning Ordinance, so we get a little bit of
35 1 leeway in creating those tests. 2 So that may come up if you have sign 3 variances up next month. So whenever we do the seminar, 4 we'll go over the rest of the substantive changes if you'd 5 like. 6 MEMBER SANGHVI: Very good. 7 Thank you very much. 8 Anything else? 9 MR. SAVEN: No, I will shut my mouth. 10 MEMBER SANGHVI: Are you all done? 11 ROBIN WORKING: Mr. Chair, last month this 12 Board approved the 2007 ZBA meeting calendar dates, and we 13 were informed this week that there needed to be a change 14 made. 15 You will now be meeting on Monday, November 16 5th of 2007 instead of Wednesday, November 7th, 2007. 17 Because -- 18 MEMBER SANGHVI: (Unintelligible.) 19 ROBIN WORKING: Right. And because the 20 Planning Commission was meeting on Wednesday. 21 MEMBER FISCHER: Did we just get kicked out 22 (interposing) because of the Planning Commission? 23 Who made that decision? 24 I have a problem with that. We'll take
36 1 that up later. 2 Mr. Chair, Motion to adjourn? 3 MEMBER SANGHVI: (Interposing) 4 (unintelligible.) 5 MEMBER FISCHER: Motion to adjourn, 6 Mr. Chair? 7 MEMBER SANGHVI: Will you kindly please 8 make a Motion? 9 MEMBER BAUER: He did. 10 MEMBER FISCHER: Motion to adjourn. 11 MEMBER SANGHVI: There's a Motion? 12 MEMBER CANUP: Support. 13 MEMBER SANGHVI: And supported. 14 And no discussion. 15 All those in favor, (unintelligible) 16 signify by saying aye. 17 BOARD MEMBERS: Aye. 18 MEMBER SANGHVI: The meeting is adjourned. 19 Thank you. 20 (The meeting was adjourned 21 at 8:08 p.m). 22 23 24
37 1 C E R T I F I C A T E 2 3 4 I, Mona L. Talton, do hereby certify that I have 5 recorded stenographically the proceedings had and 6 testimony taken in the above-entitled matter at the time 7 and place hereinbefore set forth, and I do further certify 8 that the foregoing transcript, consisting of (36) 9 typewritten pages, is a true and correct transcript of my 10 said stenographic notes. 11 12 13 14 15 _____________________________ 16 Mona L. Talton, 17 Certified Shorthand Reporter 18 19 October 21, 2006 20 21 22 23 24
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