| View Agenda for this meeting View Action Summary for this meeting REGULAR MEETING - ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS Proceedings had and testimony taken in the matters of the ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS, at City of Novi, 45175 West Ten Mile Road, Novi, Michigan, Tuesday, October 4, 2005. BOARD MEMBERS ALSO PRESENT: REPORTED BY: 1 Novi, Michigan 2 Tuesday, October 4, 2005 3 7:30 p.m. 4 - - - - - 5 MEMBER FISCHER: All right. 6 It's now 7:30, and I would like to call to 7 order the City of Novi Zoning Board of 8 Appeals meeting for September -- October, 9 2005. 10 Ms. Backus, will you please 11 call the roll. 12 GAIL BACKUS: Member Bauer? 13 MEMBER BAUER: Present. 14 GAIL BACKUS: Member Brennan? 15 MEMBER BRENNAN: Here. 16 GAIL BACKUS: Member Canup? 17 MEMBER CANUP: Here. 18 GAIL BACKUS: Member Fischer? 19 MEMBER FISCHER: Present. 20 GAIL BACKUS: Member 21 Gronachan? 22 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Here. 23 GAIL BACKUS: Member Krieger? 24 MEMBER KRIEGER: Here.
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1 GAIL BACKUS: Member Sanghvi? 2 MEMBER SANGHVI: Here. 3 GAIL BACKUS: All present. 4 MEMBER FISCHER: All right. 5 There are some rules of 6 conduct. They are on the agenda, if you 7 could please look them over. Please turn 8 off all cell phones an pagers while in the 9 room. As well as, individuals will have 10 five minutes to address the Board; groups 11 will have ten minutes. 12 The Zoning Board of Appeals is 13 a Hearing Board empowered by the Novi City 14 Charter to hear appeals seeking variances 15 from the application of the Novi Zoning 16 Ordinance. It takes a vote of at least four 17 Members to approve a variance request, and a 18 vote of the majority present to deny a 19 request. Today, we do have a full board 20 with six members, so any decision made will 21 be final. 22 We do have an agenda. 23 Are there any changes to the 24 agenda?
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1 Member Gronachan? 2 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Chairman 3 Fischer, I will be asking the Board to allow 4 me to recuse myself from Case Number, 5 05-082, J.D. Dinan Company and Classic 6 Collision Repair. I am an insurance agent. 7 I have a direct business relationship with 8 the current body shop, and feel that this 9 could be determined as a conflict. 10 MEMBER FISCHER: Okay. 11 And that will take a Motion; 12 is that correct, Mr. Schultz? 13 MR. SCHULTZ: You could do 14 that -- yes, you could do that (interposing) 15 (unintelligible) or, you can do it now as 16 part of approving the agenda. 17 MEMBER FISCHER: Okay. 18 MEMBER BAUER: We'll make a 19 Motion. 20 MEMBER FISCHER: All right. 21 There is a Motion to allow 22 Miss Gronachan to recuse herself from the 23 case said. 24 MEMBER CANUP: Second.
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1 MEMBER FISCHER: Second. 2 All in favor say aye. 3 BOARD MEMBERS: Aye. 4 MEMBER FISCHER: Thank you, 5 Miss Gronachan for bringing that to the 6 Board's attention. 7 Are there any other changes to 8 the agenda? 9 Ms. Backus? 10 MS. BACKUS: Case number -- 11 the third case, 05-081, Metro Detroit Signs 12 for Huntington Bank, they will would ask to 13 be removed from tonight's agenda, and table 14 to next month. 15 MEMBER FISCHER: Okay. 16 Thank you for that. 17 Any objections to that? 18 Seeing none; try to make them 19 the first case. 20 Any other changes tonight? 21 Mr. Saven? 22 MR. SAVEN: Just with wanted 23 to add item under other matters for tonight, 24 dealing with the ZBA training schedule.
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1 We'll go over a few days that be available 2 for training. 3 MEMBER FISCHER: Perfect. We 4 do have that on the agenda. So we're all 5 set to discuss that. 6 Any other changes? 7 Seeing none, I'll entertain a 8 Motion to approve as amended? 9 MEMBER SANGHVI: So moved. 10 MEMBER FISCHER: Is there a 11 second? 12 MEMBER BRENNAN: Aye. 13 MEMBER FISCHER: There's a 14 Motion and a second to approve the agenda. 15 All in favor say aye? 16 BOARD MEMBERS: Aye. 17 MEMBER FISCHER: We have an 18 agenda. 19 Moving right a long, we're 20 going to go to the public remarks section of 21 the Hearing tonight. This is the public 22 remarks portion of the meeting, and all 23 comments relating to cases on the agenda 24 should be held until that case is called.
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1 If anyone wishes to address 2 the Board on any matter or case not on the 3 agenda, please come forward. 4 Seeing none, we will close the 5 public remarks portion of the meeting. 6 As far as Minutes go, did we 7 have October -- I am sorry, September? 8 MEMBER FISCHER: We got 9 September tonight, okay, so we'll wait until 10 next meeting so everyone has a chance to 11 review those. 12 All right. Then we'll move 13 onto cases. 14 15 I would like to call Case 16 Number 05-076 filed boy Bright Star, 17 Incorporated, for Gus O'Connor's Irish Pub 18 at 42875 Grand River. 19 As you will remember, this 20 case was tabled at the September 13th 21 meeting, and Bright Star is requesting one 22 sign variance for a wall sign to be 23 installed at the said address. 24 Is Gus O'Connor's available
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1 tonight? 2 Not seeing the Petitioner, we 3 will move them to the end of the agenda. 4 5 And I'll call Case, 05-080, 6 filed by Claudio Rossi of Mirage Development 7 for a parcel located at Breck -- Beck Road, 8 southwest corner of Beck and Eleven Mile. 9 This case was also tabled from 10 the September 13th meeting. And the 11 Petitioner is requesting one sign variance 12 to erect a ground sign off-site. 13 Is the Petitioner available? 14 Please come forward. 15 MR. ROSSI: Good evening. 16 MEMBER FISCHER: You were 17 sworn in last time, so that does still 18 stand, if you'd like to present. 19 MR. ROSSI: Okay. 20 We're here again tonight to 21 ask the Board to consider our request for 22 the placement of a marketing sign at the 23 southwest corner of Eleven Mile and Beck 24 Road, the Asbury Park project.
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1 As I mentioned at the last 2 meeting, the sign has been significantly 3 reduced in size, height, and print to comply 4 with some of the concerns that were brought 5 to our attention at the very first meeting. 6 We feel that this is a big necessity for the 7 success of that project -- the builders and 8 also the community. 9 And we strongly would ask that 10 the Board tonight consider our request and 11 approve this. 12 Thank you. 13 I will be more than happy to 14 answer any questions. 15 MEMBER FISCHER: Perfect. 16 And are you speaking on behalf 17 of the applicant or as part of the 18 application? 19 MR. HASSENBOLER: Yes. 20 MEMBER FISCHER: Will you 21 please raise your hand and be sworn in by 22 our secretary. 23 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Do you 24 swear or affirm that the information that
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1 you're about to give in the matter before 2 you is the truth? 3 MR. HASSENBOLER: I do. 4 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Thank you. 5 MR. HASSENBOLER: My name is 6 Paul Hasesnboler. I'm the sales manager for 7 Vince Building Company out at Asbury Park. 8 We've been out there since approximately 9 April, and traffic has been quite dismal 10 through our model. We're looking at three 11 to five couples a week; and most of those 12 are curious people from the sub across the 13 street. 14 You know, we're not doing 15 terribly well, sales-wise out there. I 16 think the sign would be a great help to us. 17 A lot of people just simply don't know that 18 we're there; that includes realtors and 19 anybody else that's in the market for a 20 house. 21 So hopefully, the Board will 22 approve our request. 23 MEMBER FISCHER: Thank you 24 very much for your comments.
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1 In this case, there were 17 2 notices mailed on the original application; 3 zero approvals, zero objections. 4 Does anyone in the audience 5 wish to address the Board regarding this 6 case? 7 Seeing none, I'll ask the 8 Building Department if they have comments? 9 MR. AMOLSCH: No comment. 10 MEMBER FISCHER: And I'll open 11 it up to the Board for discussion. 12 Member Brennan? 13 MEMBER BRENNAN: I think the 14 only reason we put this off last month is 15 because there were a couple Board Members 16 here that were -- had issue with this. 17 Personally. I believe that this is a short 18 term sign to fix a short term problem; get 19 some traffic down Eleven Mile. 20 I didn't have a problem with 21 this last month, but (unintelligible) we 22 were a little short, and we needed some 23 comments from other members that had issue. 24 So, I support the Petitioner,
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1 and I'll listen to what others have to say. 2 MEMBER FISCHER: Thank you, 3 Member Brennan. 4 And other Board Members? 5 Member Canup? 6 MEMBER CANUP: Didn't we hear 7 a sign request like this about three months 8 ago. 9 MEMBER FISCHER: Yes, we did. 10 MEMBER CANUP: Basically, 11 almost the same type of request 12 (unintelligible) corner (unintelligible) 13 property, etc. And my attitude really 14 hasn't changed since then about off-site 15 advertising. 16 And I don't care how many sign 17 you pull up there I don't think it's going 18 help sell that property down there. I think 19 it's not a secret that six hundred and 20 fifty, seven hundred thousand dollar homes 21 aren't selling anywhere right now, no matter 22 how many signs they have. I think it's the 23 market. And I don't think -- my personal 24 opinion is the market's not going to change
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1 in the next six months. If anything, it's 2 probably going to get worse. 3 I just think it's an 4 unfortunate situation these people have. 5 But on the other hand, I don't think we 6 should burden the rest of the people in Novi 7 with a sign that's somewhat distasteful, in 8 my opinion, located on what is going to very 9 shortly be a very main thoroughfare when the 10 expressway entrance is open at Beck Road and 11 96. 12 So with that, I would have 13 very -- a very great amount of difficulty 14 supporting any Motion to support this. 15 MEMBER FISCHER: Thank you, 16 Member Canup. 17 Other Board Members? 18 Then I'll go ahead and put my 19 comments on the record, while other Board 20 Members think. 21 When we saw this case 22 originally three, four months ago, the main 23 concerns at that time were the size -- which 24 I see has been limited, brought down quite a
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1 bit. I am very impressed with that. We 2 were concerned with the wording. It seemed 3 as more of an advertising for the actual 4 developers; now it is solely for the 5 development. So I am very impressed with 6 that, as well. 7 Lastly, we asked for hard 8 evidence that it's difficult to find this 9 development. We have the sales manager from 10 that area today to discuss the low amount of 11 traffic, and the fact that most people are 12 just curious; people who aren't really in 13 the market. 14 As much as we discuss the 15 market and to say that, it's just because of 16 the market, we can't say that. I'm not an 17 economics major. So, we need to support 18 this development in selling out. The best 19 thing for Novi is to have this development 20 sold out. It is a short term sign. 21 So I would be willing to 22 support this sign, as they have met our 23 requests. 24 Other Board Members' comments?
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1 Member Krieger? 2 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes. I'd 3 like to know the time that they would want 4 the sign up? 5 Thank you. 6 MEMBER FISCHER: Often that's 7 something that's decided by the Board, but 8 we would ask for their recommendation as to 9 what type of time limit you would be looking 10 for. 11 MR. ROSSI: At least a year, 12 but we will take into consideration any time 13 frame that you guys would like to limit the 14 sign for. I mean, anything would really 15 help. 16 MR. HASSENBOLER: It's at your 17 discretion, so. 18 MEMBER FISCHER: Personally, I 19 would like to see a year. We could revisit 20 the case at that time. 21 Is that all, Miss Krieger? 22 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes, thank 23 you. 24 Any one else, first round?
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1 All right. Member Canup? 2 MEMBER CANUP: If there's no 3 further discussion on the Motion -- on the 4 case, I would make a Motion that in Case 5 Number 05-080 that we deny the request as 6 stated, due to lack of hardship. 7 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Support. 8 MEMBER FISCHER: There is a 9 Motion and a second. 10 I'll ask for further 11 discussion, although I think I know where 12 this is going. 13 Mr. Schultz? 14 MR. SCHULTZ: (Unintelligible) 15 make a comment again. At the outset the 16 meaning of practical difficulty 17 (unintelligible) hardship standard, assuming 18 you substitute that for hardship in the 19 Motion. 20 MEMBER CANUP: I would accept 21 that friendly amendment. 22 MEMBER FISCHER: And the 23 seconder of that Motion? 24 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Yes, I
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1 would support. 2 MEMBER FISCHER: Any further 3 discussion? 4 Ms. Backus, will you please 5 call the roll. 6 GAIL BACKUS: Member Canup? 7 MEMBER CANUP: Yes. 8 GAIL BACKUS: Member 9 Gronachan? 10 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Yes. 11 GAIL BACKUS: Member Sanghvi? 12 MEMBER SANGHVI: No. 13 GAIL BACKUS: Member Fischer? 14 MEMBER FISCHER: No. 15 GAIL BACKUS: Mr. Brennan? 16 MEMBER BRENNAN: No. 17 GAIL BACKUS: Member Bauer? 18 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 19 GAIL BACKUS: Motion's tied. 20 MEMBER FISCHER: All right. 21 Then I'll open it for further 22 discussion. 23 Am I correct, we don't have a 24 denial or an approval?
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1 Mr. Schultz? 2 MR. SCHULTZ: The Motion to 3 deny obviously failed. There is no positive 4 Motion. Somebody could attempt to make a 5 Motion to approve with some different 6 conditions to see if that results in a 7 different outcome; or if there's no Motion 8 forthcoming, we'll just -- you just treat it 9 as a denial going forward. 10 MEMBER FISCHER: Member 11 Brennan? 12 MEMBER BRENNAN: Well, this is 13 one of those deals where we agree to 14 disagree, I guess. It troubles me that 15 we've got a case here where we've asked the 16 Petitioner to make some concessions, and 17 given him maybe an impression that if he 18 makes those changes that he'd get an 19 approval. 20 He backed off on the language 21 of the sign. He backed down on the size of 22 the sign. He's got a representative here 23 that's said that they are having a troubled 24 time. I don't know why we wouldn't consider
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1 some level of help here. And while I hate 2 to even suggest it, maybe it's what we need 3 to do to push things along. 4 I'll make a Motion that we 5 consider approving this variance request, 6 this sign as submitted tonight, in it's size 7 and location for a period of six months. 8 I'm sorry, sir. I'm trying to 9 work for you. 10 For a period of six months. 11 Let's see how things go. And if it's 12 helping them -- if the sales manager can 13 come in here and say, you know what, we sold 14 four or five houses, maybe it was a wise 15 decision on our part. 16 That's my Motion. 17 MEMBER FISCHER: There is a 18 Motion on the table. 19 Is there a second? 20 MEMBER SANGHVI: Second. 21 MEMBER FISCHER: There's a 22 Motion and a second. 23 Any discussion on the Motion? 24 Seeing none, Ms. Backus, would
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1 you please call the roll. 2 GAIL BACKUS: Member Brennan? 3 MEMBER BRENNAN: Yes. 4 GAIL BACKUS: Member Sanghvi? 5 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes. 6 GAIL BACKUS: Member Bauer? 7 MEMBER BAUER: No. 8 GAIL BACKUS: Member Canup? 9 MEMBER CANUP: No. 10 GAIL BACKUS: Member Fischer? 11 MEMBER FISCHER: Yes. 12 GAIL BACKUS: Member 13 Gronachan? 14 MEMBER GRONACHAN: No. 15 MEMBER FISCHER: Looks like at 16 this time, your variance has not been 17 approved. I'm sorry. 18 We'll have to move on to the 19 next case. 20 MR. ROSSI: Could I ask a 21 question of the Board? 22 MEMBER FISCHER: We'll 23 entertain a question. 24 MR. ROSSI: Is there anything
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1 that would -- that we can do that would 2 change the mind of members that would not 3 like to see the sign there? I mean is 4 there -- anything would greatly help. We've 5 been struggling; the builders have been 6 struggling. 7 I mean, we're here for a 8 reason. 9 MEMBER FISCHER: I'll let 10 Ms. Gronachan go ahead, since she was a 11 dissenter, to answer your question. 12 MEMBER GRONACHAN: One of the 13 things that I said two months ago -- I 14 forget who was here at the original 15 presentation -- was the fact that you needed 16 to substantiate what the problem was that 17 you were having. Telling us that nobody's 18 coming in with the economic hardships that 19 we have right now, is not substantiated 20 enough for me. 21 If you have people actually 22 telling you that you(sic) cannot find it, 23 give me names and phone numbers. I mean, I 24 -- seriously. There's a lot of sites out
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1 there that are not building -- and I was 2 thinking about this at length before this 3 evening. If for every site that didn't 4 sell, we placed a sign in Novi somewhere 5 based on the fact that people can't find it, 6 Novi would not look too good. 7 I can appreciate the fact that 8 Petitioners think that people are not able 9 to locate this piece -- this property. But 10 I just can't -- I'm not convinced of that. 11 And the sign is impacting an area that's 12 residential. And I think if you can 13 substantiate that people actually cannot 14 find this location, then I think you'd have 15 a chance. 16 I would like to clarify, too, 17 that in no way, shape or form at the 18 previous meeting did I give anyone any hope, 19 (unintelligible) or prayer that my view was 20 going to change; and I stated the exact same 21 thing two months ago, if you recall, that 22 I'm stating tonight. And that's the reason 23 why I'm getting tougher on these signs. 24 We're approaching build out. And I just
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1 feel that it's due to economics, not due to 2 location. 3 MR. ROSSI: Can I answer -- 4 MEMBER FISCHER: At this -- 5 MEMBER BAUER: Sure. 6 MR. ROSSI: -- that question? 7 Is it appropriate? 8 MEMBER FISCHER: At this time, 9 we're going to have to move on to the next 10 case. 11 Thank you for your time. 12 13 At this time I'd like to call, 14 Case Number, 05-081, filed by Patty Krula of 15 Metro Detroit Signs. 16 It's tabled. 17 18 19 So moving on to Case Number, 20 05-082, filed by Kim Paterson with J. D. 21 Dinan Company for Omni Commerce Center, 22 LLC, and Classic Collision Repair Center. 23 Ms. Paterson is requesting a use variance to 24 allow Classic Collision to take occupancy in
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1 the identical space previously occupied by 2 Collex and Pro-Tech Collision. 3 Previous approval was granted 4 by the ZBA, limited to the applicant -- to 5 this application. The property is located 6 north of 10 and east of Novi Road. 7 And are you the applicant? 8 MS. PATTERSON: Yes. 9 MEMBER FISCHER: Okay. Could 10 you please raise your hand and swear to tell 11 the whole truth regarding Case Number, 12 05-082? 13 MS. PATTERSON: Yes. 14 MR. MAMOLA: We do. 15 MEMBER FISCHER: And please 16 state your names and address and proceed. 17 MR. MAMOLA: I'm Lee Mamola, 18 Mamola Associates Architects in Novi. 19 And the others will address 20 their names and addresses as they come to 21 the podium, if that's all right for the 22 Board. 23 MEMBER FISCHER: Good. 24 MR. MAMOLA: Some of you may
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1 recall this case was in front of the ZBA 2 about, maybe ten years ago now, and -- to 3 grant a use variance to allow a previous 4 collision type business into the Omni Auto 5 Center facility. The Omni Auto Center 6 facility is similar to a retail strip 7 center; except it's limited to the 8 automotive service type business and market. 9 In there, there's an oil 10 change place, a muffler place, and a car 11 clean up motif type business. Those 12 businesses are generally closer to Novi 13 Road, and we -- let me back up by saying, 14 the general arrangement of the footprint of 15 the building is somewhat perpendicular to 16 Novi Road. And that was done, so as the 17 original design, to comply with the 18 Ordinance requirements at the time; not to 19 allow overhead doors facing Novi Road. 20 So that's -- we have this long 21 narrow building that's somewhat 22 perpendicular to Novi Road, but all of the 23 businesses, face the inside of the site. 24 They don't face the street, as you normally
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1 would expect. Well, the businesses that are 2 there, the prime spot is closer to the road; 3 second to the prime spot is second closest, 4 and so on. 5 Those types of businesses in 6 that type of a center generally are going to 7 rely upon the great degree of drive-by 8 business. Driving-by you want to get your 9 oil changed; you see nobody's in line, it's 10 a good opportunity to get your oil changed 11 or your muffler fixed or whatever the case 12 might be for the business. 13 As you get to the end of line 14 in that center, the back spaces don't lease 15 out. There's no function for them 16 whatsoever in this facility. Because they 17 are so far back from the main road, they 18 have almost visibility whatsoever. Yet, we 19 can have a business -- we have had two 20 businesses there. 21 Initially, it was Pro-Tech and 22 then Collex Collision, and have done quite 23 well in the business sense. Because their 24 business relies upon that being a
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1 destination. You hopefully are not driving 2 along Novi Road, you get a bump in your 3 fender and happen to see there's a bump shop 4 right there. So, the nature of the previous 5 variances for the previous two tenants is 6 still the same as it was before. 7 Now the Board in the previous 8 two cases held a certain restriction; and 9 that is, that there was to be no outdoor 10 storage and no outdoor leaving of cars; 11 especially overnight that had -- in need of 12 repair of some sort. The first tenants, 13 there was a little bit, say, learning curve 14 between abiding by that requirement and what 15 the city has understood is that requirement. 16 J. Dinan Company, the tenants 17 -- the landlords, have worked with the 18 enforcement officer. We believe that that 19 is now not an issue any longer. I did meet 20 with the Petitioners of Classic Collision. 21 They're in the audience tonight. It's a 22 family-owned business looking to move to 23 Novi. I've explained to them the nature of 24 the previous restrictions that the previous
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1 Board had place upon previous tenants. We 2 would presume that this Board would do the 3 same. 4 And quite sufficiently told 5 them their business could very much be in 6 danger if it did not live up to the 7 requirements the board decided to set. 8 And I'll remind the Board that 9 in the previous two cases, the Board held 10 jurisdiction in the case to make sure those 11 requirements were met. And these tenants 12 understand that and appreciate it, and 13 looking to abide by and become a 14 (unintelligible) business. They are in the 15 audience if you have any particular 16 questions that you would like to hear from 17 them. I'll have them come down, as well. 18 I also left prior to tonight's 19 meeting (unintelligible) secretary some 20 letters of approval or acceptance, if you 21 will, from the existing tenants, that they 22 would welcome this tenant into that 23 facility. 24 Thank you.
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1 MEMBER FISCHER: Thank you. 2 MS. PATERSON: I'll just 3 introduce myself. My name is Kim Paterson. 4 I'm the manager for J.D. Dinan Company. I 5 think Mr. Lee did a good job of 6 explaining, but I will be glad to answer 7 anything you have. 8 Do I give my home address or 9 business? 10 MEMBER FISCHER: Yeah, that's 11 fine, either. 12 MS. PATERSON: Either or? 13 28815 West Eight Mile Road, 14 Suite 101, Livonia, 48152. 15 MR. DINAN: Hello. I'm John 16 Dinan. I'm the Trust that owns J. D. Dinan 17 Company, and my address is the same as Kim 18 Paterson, 28815 Eight Mile, Livonia, 19 Michigan, 48152. 20 I just came in support of our 21 Motion. 22 MEMBER FISCHER: Okay. 23 Thank you all. 24 In this case there were 14
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1 notices mailed, zero approvals and zero 2 objections. 3 Does anyone in the audience 4 wish to address the Board regarding this 5 case? 6 Seeing none, move to the 7 Building Department for any comments. 8 MR. SAVEN: Should the Board 9 decide to approval this case, I'd like to 10 once again reiterate what Mr. Mr. Mamola 11 indicated why to put this under continuing 12 jurisdiction (unintelligible) type of 13 business that it was; and number two -- and 14 number two it's an issue that they shouldn't 15 have any outdoor storage, as the previous 16 tenants. 17 MEMBER FISCHER: Anything 18 further? 19 Okay. Then I'll open it up 20 for Board discussion. 21 Member Brennan? 22 MEMBER BRENNAN: I don't see 23 any reason why we can't let this new family 24 business continue what's been there for many
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1 years, as long as they understand they have 2 the same restrictions as was outlined in 3 1993. Lee has already told us that he's 4 made it very clear what those restrictions 5 are. Those restrictions were spelled out in 6 the Board of Appeals case 93-057. 7 It's a new family business to 8 Novi. We welcome you. Thanks for coming. 9 I don't see any reason why we 10 can't continue on. 11 MEMBER FISCHER: Thank you, 12 Member Brennan. 13 Any further discussion? 14 Member Canup? 15 MEMBER CANUP: You know, I sat 16 and thought about this case quite a bit and 17 the fact this is some ten years old -- I 18 know there was lot of enforcement problems 19 in that particular business with cars 20 sitting outside. And I think there were 21 probably times when the enforcement people 22 might not have looked real hard when they 23 drove by because they knew about the fight 24 they were about to get into.
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1 I think you could drive by 2 there most any time and there would be cars 3 that were -- been in accidents, cars that 4 weren't supposed to be sitting outside, were 5 sitting outside. And I think due to the 6 fact that we've made -- in my opinion, we've 7 made one mistake of letting that happen, and 8 I don't see why we should continue that 9 mistake. 10 Obviously, when -- in the 11 automotive business -- auto repair business, 12 there's going to be cars that are going to 13 have to be parked outside. You know, 14 there's just no way around keeping cars or 15 keeping cars inside undercover. 16 If any of you think back about 17 the piece of property that was on Grand 18 River that we turned -- I believe we turned 19 it down two or three years ago. It's now a 20 mini-storage, because they could not afford 21 to keep the cars inside under a roof, using 22 a space that would be productive in their 23 business, to store a car that was maybe 24 waiting for parts or whatever.
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1 So with that, I can't see 2 where I would want to support continuation 3 of a use that never should have been anyway. 4 MEMBER FISCHER: Thank you, 5 Member Canup. 6 I'm going to interject with a 7 point of order with Member Gronachan not 8 here, does that open it up for Miss Krieger 9 to vote in this case? 10 MR. SCHULTZ: Yes, it does. 11 MEMBER FISCHER: Okay. 12 So we continue to have a full 13 Board. 14 Member Bauer? 15 MEMBER BAUER: I would 16 represent the exact same thing that Brent 17 came up with. And having junk cars -- I 18 call them junk cars, cars that were going to 19 be repaired sitting in the lot that should 20 not have been; and this happened not -- it 21 happened more than once, and I can't 22 continue to have this variance continue 23 there at that location. 24 MEMBER FISCHER: Thank you,
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1 Member Bauer. 2 Any further discussion? 3 I'll go ahead and make some 4 comments, as well. 5 I echo the sentiments of 6 Member Brennan. I will welcome them, as 7 well, should they receive a variance. 8 Can you tell me how long ago 9 the -- let me first state, I'm sure that you 10 look at every business when you drive by. 11 But second of all, can you tell me how long 12 ago it was that this received a violation 13 from the Ordinance department? 14 MR. AMOLSCH: I'll look in my 15 file here. 16 MR. MAMOLA: Mr. Chairman, may 17 I interject something while we're at a 18 certain point? 19 MEMBER FISCHER: You may, but 20 as long as it's on the topic at hand right 21 now. 22 MR. MAMOLA: I would like to 23 point out that again, this is a family 24 business that is organizing their business
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1 efforts. This is their first chance to open 2 doors for the business literally. Compared 3 to the other tenants previously who had been 4 in business at other locations, and had a 5 larger volume of business, this will be a 6 relatively low volume of business. I think 7 that's a very important consideration in the 8 likelihood of cars being outside. 9 MEMBER FISCHER: Okay. 10 Thank you. 11 MR. AMOLSCH: The last 12 violation was in 2000. Collex moved out of 13 that facility about a year and a half ago. 14 MEMBER FISCHER: Okay. 15 MR. AMOLSCH: I can tell you 16 we had many, many problems with the previous 17 tenant at that center for -- they made 18 certain promises to the Board that they 19 would not only have junk cars out in the 20 lot. They would have any cars they were 21 working on inside the building at night, 22 (unintelligible.) That did not quite 23 happen. They had quite a few junk car 24 violations, car parts, and just totally
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1 wrecked cars without plates on them. 2 We gave notice to the owner of 3 the property (unintelligible.) But there 4 were many, many problems we had with the 5 previous two uses in that. 6 MEMBER FISCHER: Okay. 7 I still think that there's a 8 compromise to be made on this case. I 9 believe that this applicant should be given 10 a chance. 11 And with that, I'll close my 12 comments. 13 Member Sanghvi? 14 MEMBER SANGHVI: I agree with 15 you, Mr. Chair, that this is a new people, 16 doing new business. And we cannot 17 extrapolate conditions of the previous 18 owners and the previous problem on 19 (unintelligible.) That is not a fair thing 20 to do. And I think these people should be 21 given an opportunity (unintelligible) -- I 22 beg your pardon. And we should give them an 23 opportunity to succeed. That's what America 24 is all about.
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1 And there is no reason why 2 they can't have their chance, and I have no 3 problem in supporting the continued 4 variation with the continued jurisdiction. 5 MEMBER FISCHER: Thank you, 6 Member Sanghvi. 7 Member Krieger? 8 MEMBER KRIEGER: I agree with 9 there hasn't been a violation for four 10 years; that we have a new company coming 11 into this (unintelligible). They should be 12 given an opportunity to attempt at their 13 business, with the understanding that with 14 any violations, that they would be dealing 15 with the Building Department. 16 And so I would be in support 17 of letting the new company come in and have 18 attempt at their business. 19 MEMBER FISCHER: Thank you, 20 Member Krieger. 21 Member Canup? 22 MEMBER CANUP: You know, my 23 comments were not an attack on a personal 24 basis to anybody. My comments were made on
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1 the fact of an auto body shop business is -- 2 excuse the term, a dirty business. It's 3 just the nature of the beast. And to have 4 cars that the towing company comes in the 5 middle of the night and drops off out front 6 that are smashed etc. -- there's a car in 7 the bay that can't get the parts for it for 8 two or three days, they can't leave that car 9 sitting in the bay and tie up that bay, when 10 they got other people standing at the door 11 waiting to get in and get something done. 12 It's just the nature of the 13 beast that you're going to have the problem 14 with the new people that you had with the 15 old people. It's a body shop business, and 16 that's just the way it is. And it's not -- 17 again, it's not a personal attack on anybody 18 (unintelligible) run their business. It's 19 just, again, to repeat myself, it's the 20 nature of the beast. If they go out and 21 look at any collision shop -- you're going 22 to look at Kiefer Collision. They have a 23 fenced in area in the back. They've got all 24 that trash piled up back there, fenders off
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1 of cars and things like that. 2 If you go down to Bob Seller's 3 and go back to their body shop, they've got 4 the same problem. They've got cars sitting 5 outside. I don't think there's anything 6 you're going to do that's not to going to 7 create a problem for our enforcement people. 8 And I ask you to turn this 9 down and let this property turn into 10 something that's not going to be headache. 11 When these people built this property; they 12 built these structures facing the way they 13 did, they knew exactly what they had and 14 they knew what the Ordinances were at the 15 time. And again, a body shop is a business 16 that just creates the problems that they've 17 shown that have been created over the years 18 past. 19 And I think -- I know when I 20 drove by there many, many times within the 21 last three or four years just, as recently 22 before Collex moved out, there was always 23 cars parked outside that needed attention. 24 So it wasn't a thing that happened
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1 occasionally. You know, it was more so 2 constantly. 3 So with that, I'll leave that. 4 But again, I think we are making a mistake 5 if we allow a use like this in this 6 particular area. 7 MEMBER FISCHER: Thank you, 8 Member Canup. 9 Member Brennan? 10 MEMBER BRENNAN: Well Lee, how 11 are they going to run things differently? 12 Is it going to be different? 13 MS. PATERSON: Yeah, I'd like 14 to speak on behalf of that. Allen, I'm the 15 one you speak to on the phone when you call, 16 if you have any complaints or whatever. You 17 know, I've met the out there. 18 Unfortunately, we have an automotive 19 business. We have Tuffy. We have a bunch 20 of businesses where people think they can 21 just park their cars. That has nothing to 22 do with the collision shop. It has nothing 23 to do with any of the businesses there. 24 I mean, several times there
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1 were people that just, you know, decided to 2 park their cars. They had no plate, no one 3 claimed it. We came. We lifted it. It was 4 out of the way. We'd be glad to work on a 5 weekly basis, whatever we have to do. 6 I've tried to lease this space 7 since Collex has been gone, is about ten 8 months now. I've offered it to tire places 9 and to anything that would be in at that 10 zoning. And we just haven't been able to. 11 Because it is so far from the road, people 12 always say, how can people see me. That's 13 one of their excuses. Even if I lower the 14 rent, I still can't get them to look at the 15 space (unintelligible) larger space or 16 whatever. 17 We'd be glad to, on a landlord 18 basis, as well as a tenant basis to, you 19 know, work directly with them. And you 20 know, if I have to go there on a weekly 21 basis to look at the premises, I'd be glad 22 to do that, because this is so important to 23 our business. You know, as you know the 24 real estate market (unintelligible) is
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1 pretty much residential. So we're fighting 2 tooth and nail for every tenant we have. 3 And that's why it's so important. We've 4 got a good tenant and a good family business 5 that will be accountable, that we decided to 6 stand up for them. 7 So you name it. We'll try to 8 accommodate what you want. 9 MEMBER BRENNAN: Follow-up 10 question. 11 Anyone representing the 12 family? 13 MS. PATERSON: The family 14 business, you mean? 15 MEMBER BRENNAN: Yeah. 16 MS. PATERSON: Sure. 17 MEMBER BRENNAN: Come on down. 18 You don't all have to come, 19 but that's okay. 20 Did you see -- did you hear 21 and understand what we're facing? 22 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yeah. 23 MEMBER BRENNAN: There's some 24 history with the previous owners of running
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1 the collision shop that they left junk in 2 the backyard. They left cars in the front 3 yard. And while we gave that previous owner 4 the okay to run that collision shop 5 business, we told them you can't leave junk 6 in the backyard; you can't leave cars in the 7 front yard. 8 How can you run this business 9 and maintain it under the guidelines of the 10 variance that you're asking us to, which 11 says you can't have nothing in the parking 12 lot; you can't have nothing in the backyard. 13 You got to have everything clean. You can't 14 have nothing in the yard. 15 How are you going do that 16 different? 17 UNIDENTIFIED MALE 1: Well, 18 this issue come up a lot of times before. 19 Even Kim, and they have told us in the 20 contract -- it's written that that's an 21 issue. You cannot have stuff parked outside 22 of the building. And we've -- I think that 23 what we're going to do is, since we're a 24 family business we have -- it's going to be
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1 more -- it's going to be more communication 2 like -- as compared to a business which has 3 individual employers; where it's -- 4 UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The 5 owner's not there all the time. 6 UNIDENTIFIED MALE 1: Right. 7 We're going to have total control. So I 8 think that -- 9 UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're 10 always going to be there. 11 MEMBER BAUER: You've got to 12 get to that microphone. They cannot pick it 13 up without that. 14 UNIDENTIFIED MALE 1: Sure. 15 Sorry about that. 16 MEMBER BAUER: 17 (Unintelligible.) 18 UNIDENTIFIED MALE 2: And 19 we're being -- we're being a new business, a 20 family business, it's not going to be much 21 of a busy place. We're just -- we're going 22 to deal with the local people; not have 23 contracts from coming all over. And the 24 whole space is 6,000 square feet for the
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1 vehicles. It's more than enough. 2 MEMBER FISCHER: Thank you for 3 your comments in answering Member Brennan's 4 question. 5 You still have the floor, 6 Member Brennan. 7 Go ahead. 8 MEMBER BRENNAN: I -- I 9 appreciate where Mr. Canup is. I also 10 appreciate entrepreneurship; the American 11 spirit; and a family business. 12 And I'd like to make a Motion 13 that we consider granting this variance 14 appeal for -- let's give it six months. And 15 we'll ask you to come back after six months 16 and see how your business is running; 17 whether there been any issues. 18 The Building Department is 19 going to be watching you. Everyone's going 20 to be watching you. If it's going okay 21 after six months, then we'll say, let's 22 extend it. But I think it's only fair. 23 That it's a continued use of an existing 24 business, and I think that -- I think it's
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1 only right. 2 Don't have any other reason 3 than that. 4 That's my Motion. 5 MEMBER FISCHER: Mr. Schultz, 6 comments? 7 MR. SCHULTZ: (Unintelligible) 8 I think maybe to rephrase it, grant the 9 variance with an automatic review in six 10 months. If there's been violations, the 11 Board will review the whole matter again; is 12 that a fair (unintelligible)? 13 MEMBER BRENNAN: That's fair. 14 Do you understand that? 15 FAMILY MEMBERS: Yes. 16 MEMBER FISCHER: There is a 17 Motion. 18 Is there a second? 19 MEMBER SANGHVI: Second. 20 MEMBER FISCHER: A Motion and 21 a Second. 22 Further discussion? 23 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 24 (Unintelligible) put in the
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1 approvals from the prior to this. 2 MEMBER BRENNAN: Thank you, 3 Gerry. 4 I referenced the original 5 case, 93-057, which stipulated that here's 6 the rules, okay, and you can discuss that 7 with Lee. I'm sure he's already gone 8 through that. The Motion is based on all of 9 the stimulations from the previous ownership 10 regarding storage and cars, and all of that. 11 So it's very clear what you're are getting 12 into. 13 Okay. 14 MEMBER FISCHER: So we have a 15 Motion on the table for a six months' 16 automatic review with stipulations from Case 17 Number 93-057. 18 Seconder? 19 67. 20 The seconder concurs? 21 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes. 22 MEMBER FISCHER: All right. 23 Further discussion? 24 Member Canup?
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1 MEMBER CANUP: All right. 2 Suppose we go six months and 3 we find that we've got a problem and you 4 want to revoke the variance. 5 How are we going to move these 6 people out of there? 7 MEMBER BRENNAN: (Unintelligi 8 ble) what do we do? 9 MEMBER CANUP: Go to Court, 10 right? 11 MR. SCHULTZ: Possibly. I'm 12 certainly told ZBA (unintelligible) most 13 lawyers are not fans of starting time limit 14 variances. But the way it's framed, I think 15 it's permissible. I'm not going to comment 16 on good, bad, or in different. I think what 17 will happen, as a practical matter, even 18 though these tenants have showed up and put 19 their appearance on record and all that, 20 it's really a variance that's going to be 21 (unintelligible) owner of the collision 22 shop. 23 I think it would be 24 appropriate for those two representatives to
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1 acknowledge and accept on the record the 2 conditions of the variance. But in the end, 3 Mr. Canup, you're right, if at the end of 4 the six months it come back here and the 5 Board says (unintelligible) to work Motion 6 is to -- upon review denies the variance, 7 you're right. If they don't voluntarily 8 leave, we have enforcement action. It's a 9 possibility (unintelligible) I think if this 10 is the direction the Board goes, I think the 11 appropriate people to get up here 12 (unintelligible) acknowledge, Mr. Dinan and 13 Ms. Paterson. 14 MEMBER CANUP: I would ask 15 that you amend your Motion. I would ask -- 16 and again this is -- the only reason I'm 17 doing this is because I feel we're going to 18 lose the negative votes on it. 19 And I would ask that you amend 20 you Motion to seek agreement from the 21 Petitioners that if there's any violations 22 within six months, that they will vacate the 23 premises and abandon the business. And that 24 has to be an agreement by these people
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1 standing here. 2 MEMBER BRENNAN: I'll make 3 that amendment, if I get a nod from the 4 Petitioners. 5 MR. MAMOLA: I think, as I 6 hear you talking that when -- if there comes 7 a chance that there's damaged cars left in 8 the packing lot, you're talking about cars 9 that are directly related to this specific 10 Petitioner tonight. You're not talking 11 about cars, for example, that are there, 12 damaged waiting for the oil change, as an 13 example. This particular Petitioner. 14 That's all that they have control over. I 15 don't think it's fair to ask them to be 16 controlling the other tenants. 17 MS. PATERSON: Don't get me 18 wrong, we will be controlling the tenants, 19 but we want to make sure the collision shop 20 gets addressed separately from the other 21 businesses that are there. (Unintelligible) 22 you're holding them accountable for their 23 cars that are going to be out in the open, 24 not a problem.
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1 MEMBER CANUP: That's all I 2 was asking for. Accountable for their -- 3 MEMBER BRENNAN: Their -- your 4 business. 5 MEMBER CANUP: Your business. 6 I'm -- 7 MS. PATERSON: That are 8 associated with their business. If Allen 9 has a problem with other cars associated, 10 say, with Tuffy, it's not held against this 11 tenant here. 12 MEMBER CANUP: If a car is 13 sitting there with the front end off of it, 14 it's pretty obvious that -- 15 MS. PATERSON: Oh, no, of 16 course, yes, of course. 17 MEMBER CANUP: So I guess 18 that's the only way I could possibly support 19 this, six months as stated, six month 20 review, and these people who agree that they 21 would leave without court action at the 22 request of the City or this Board. 23 MEMBER BRENNAN: Do you 24 understand that?
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1 UNIDENTIFIED MALE 1: Yes. 2 MR. SCHULTZ: I just want to 3 confirm it. (Unintelligible) said a couple 4 of times that these folks. This is Ms. 5 Patterson's company that's requesting the 6 variance; and ultimately the landlord is 7 going to be responsible for this. 8 MS. PATERSON: Right. We just 9 want to make sure the cars are associated 10 with the collision shop. 11 MEMBER FISCHER: And I think 12 where we're going with that is if you could 13 agree with the conditions said in the 14 variance, and if Mr. Dinan could, as well, 15 step up to the microphone and agree to that, 16 as well. 17 MR. DINAN: Yes, I agree with 18 the variance. 19 MEMBER FISCHER: Okay. 20 MS. PATERSON: Yes. 21 MEMBER FISCHER: You're all 22 set, as well. 23 All right. So we do have a 24 Motion on the table.
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1 Does every one understand? 2 MEMBER BAUER: Should these 3 conditions be so stipulated in this? 4 MR. SCHULTZ: Through he Chair 5 to answer the question, I believe they are, 6 through the conversation that we had. 7 MEMBER BAUER: No problem. 8 MEMBER FISCHER: So we have an 9 understanding from the Petitioner, the 10 Board. 11 Is there any further 12 discussion from Board Members? 13 And the seconder agrees to all 14 amendments made? 15 Seeing no further discussion, 16 Ms. Backus, will you please call the 17 Motion -- the roll on this Motion. 18 GAIL BACKUS: Member Brennan? 19 MEMBER BRENNAN: Yes. 20 GAIL BACKUS: Member Sanghvi? 21 MEMBER SANGHVI. Yes. 22 GAIL BACKUS: Member Krieger? 23 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes. 24 GAIL BACKUS: Member Fischer?
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1 MEMBER FISCHER: Aye. 2 GAIL BACKUS: Member Canup? 3 MEMBER CANUP: Yes. 4 GAIL BACKUS: Member Bauer? 5 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 6 MR. MAMOLA: Thank you. 7 MEMBER FISCHER: Your variance 8 has been granted. We'll see you in six 9 months, the best of luck and try to keep it 10 up for us. 11 MEMBER FISCHER: Thank you. 12 The best of luck. 13 MS. PATERSON: Can I ask the 14 Board a question? 15 Would that be when they take 16 possession, the six months, so we'll have 17 some time here? So it will be six months 18 from when they get occupancy. That would be 19 the time frame. 20 MEMBER FISCHER: A certificate 21 of occupancy? 22 MR. SAVEN: It would be, yes. 23 MS. PATERSON: So in that time 24 we'll do the six month trial period?
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1 MR. SAVEN: From the date of 2 occupancy. 3 MS. PATERSON: Okay. Just 4 wanted to make sure. 5 MEMBER FISCHER: Six months 6 from the date of occupancy. 7 8 Good to see you back, 9 Ms. Gronachan. We missed you. 10 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Thank you. 11 Those two wonderful gentlemen 12 in the backroom ask that everybody, not only 13 use their microphone, but turn on. They're 14 taking notes back there. They'd like to 15 hear what you guys all have to say. It's so 16 wonderful and very important. 17 MEMBER FISCHER: Thank you for 18 reporting that back to us, Ms. Gronachan. 19 20 So I would like to call Case 21 Number 05-083, filed my John Harvey for 22 construction of a new home 109 Parklow, 23 Parcel B. Property is located north of 13 24 and East of East Lake Drive.
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1 And are you Mr. Harvey? 2 MR. HARVEY: Good evening. 3 I am. I am actually Tom 4 Harvey, and I -- 5 MEMBER FISCHER: Can you raise 6 your hand and be sworn in by our secretary, 7 please. 8 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Do you 9 swear or affirm that the information that 10 you're about to give in the matter before 11 you is the truth? 12 MR. HARVEY: I do. 13 MEMBER FISCHER: State your 14 name and address for the record, and 15 proceed, please. 16 MR. HARVEY: Tom Harvey, 1603 17 West Lake Drive. I'm appearing before you 18 tonight in representation of John T. Harvey, 19 Incorporated to present a case to you, which 20 I hope on the surface is a little more 21 straight forward. 22 I don't know if this is 23 visible for everybody. But this is Parcel 24 B. This property was acquired by John T.
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1 Harvey, Incorporated, for the purpose of 2 building a custom single-family residence. 3 The situation with the property is that it's 4 a little too short in it's depth in order to 5 build a longer home; and it's a little too 6 narrow in it's width to build a wide home. 7 The desire in building a home 8 is to include a attached two-car garage for 9 all the typical purposes of hopefully 10 storing at least one vehicle, in addition to 11 lawn mowers, snow shovels, etc. In trying 12 achieve this goal, John T. Harvey has made 13 an effort to balance the size of the home 14 and the location of the home on the 15 property. 16 It's typical in the design of 17 the home that he does to include the full 18 front yard, so as not to encroach on the 19 street in appropriately. The home has a 20 nice front porch, which is covered; and 21 again, the two car garage Now, the main 22 request here is the side yard variance, 23 maintaining ten feet on one side. We're 24 requesting a variance on the opposite side
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1 from 15 feet, a variance of 6.6 feet I 2 believe, 6.6 feet. And in the back, 3 requesting a variance of 6.2 feet. 4 As you can see, if you can 5 view the plot plan here, the primary reason 6 for these two variances is that once the 7 two-car attached garage is placed on the 8 site, there's a minimum reasonable amount 9 room to the side of the garage to add living 10 space there, a pass-through from the 11 entrance into the home; in addition some 12 space just to the left of the entrance for a 13 coat closet; and potentially a dining table 14 or maybe a den type space, depending on how 15 they want it to be configured. 16 And the variance in the back, 17 again once the two-car garage is placed on 18 the site to allow enough living space behind 19 the garage for a small family room; really 20 it's only 14 feet of depth in living space 21 from behind the garage to the end of the 22 structure. 23 So, in a nutshell, that's what 24 we're requesting is -- the home will be
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1 built -- we think it's a better design and 2 more appropriate with -- by today's 3 standards to have a two-car college. 4 And so we're requesting the 5 two variances as stated. 6 Thank you. 7 MEMBER FISCHER: Thank you. 8 In this case there were 45 9 notices mailed; three approvals and zero 10 objections. 11 Madam Secretary, could you 12 please read the correspondence? 13 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Most 14 certainly. 15 From Ken and Charmain Elbers 16 at 1517 East Lake Drive. They voice their 17 approval. These are reasonable requests, 18 considering the unique configurations of the 19 lots in this area. Also since there are 20 many existing structures with similar 21 setbacks, we are in favor of granting the 22 variances requested. 23 Next two approvals with no 24 comments are from Delphine and Stanley
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1 Rezepka, at 1515 East Lake Drive. 2 Thank you, Chairman Fisher. 3 MEMBER FISCHER: Thank you, 4 Madam Secretary. 5 Is there anyone in the 6 audience that wishes to address the Board 7 regarding this case? 8 Seeing none, I'll move to the 9 Building Department for any comments. 10 MR. SAVEN: I appreciate the 11 fact that you do have a garage with the 12 property. (Unintelligible) centered the 13 building. They have 25 percent lot 14 coverage. It has been met. That's 15 (unintelligible) 16 MEMBER FISCHER: Thank you, 17 Mr. Saven. 18 Board Members? 19 Member Canup? 20 MEMBER CANUP: I don't see 21 what you could do much more with this, than 22 what's been done. You've got roughly a 23 thousand square foot house, which I'm 24 assuming is two story?
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1 MR. HARVEY: The bedrooms and 2 actually the laundry room will be upstairs 3 to accommodate that. 4 MEMBER CANUP: I don't know 5 what more you could do with this parcel. I 6 think you've done as good a job as you could 7 possibly do with this to kind of balance the 8 variances out. You could have made it 9 skinnier, longer, close it up, maybe you'd 10 have less backyard. 11 I guess my only question is, 12 you've got a line going across there on lot 13 six. Can you kind of tell me what's going 14 on there with lot six, how you're 15 encroaching? You've combined two lots or 16 something. 17 MR. HARVEY: Yeah. This was 18 done previously. Lot six was acquired some 19 time ago. It's still -- the plot has been 20 redrawn, so Parcel B. does include the space 21 shown within the survey markers on this 22 plan. The old plot plan, the original plot 23 plan for that subdivision was seven, eight, 24 six -- five is shown there. But six has
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1 been subdivided and redistributed. 2 MEMBER CANUP: Okay. 3 With that, I don't have a 4 problem. 5 I'd make a Motion, if it's 6 appropriate at this time, that in Case 7 Number 05-083, we grant the request as 8 stated due to the unique configuration and 9 sizing of the lot. 10 MEMBER SANGHVI: Second. 11 MEMBER FISCHER: There's a 12 Motion and a second. 13 Is there any further 14 discussion? 15 Seeing none, Ms. Backus, would 16 you please call the roll. 17 GAIL BACKUS: Member Canup? 18 MEMBER CANUP: Yes. 19 GAIL BACKUS: Member Sanghvi? 20 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes. 21 GAIL BACKUS: Member 22 Gronachan? 23 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Yes. 24 GAIL BACKUS: Member Fischer?
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1 MEMBER FISCHER: Aye. 2 GAIL BACKUS: Member Brennan? 3 MEMBER BRENNAN: Yes. 4 GAIL BACKUS: And Member 5 Bauer? 6 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 7 GAIL BACKUS: Motion passes 8 six to zero. 9 MEMBER FISCHER: Your variance 10 has been granted. Please see the Building 11 Department. 12 MR. HARVEY: Okay. Thank you. 13 Have a good evening. 14 MEMBER FISCHER: Thank you. 15 16 Next we'll call Case Number, 17 05-084, filed by Mar Ajluni with K&S 18 Investment Group, for 30900 Beck Road. The 19 Applicant is requesting a ten foot side and 20 rear yard setback variance for the 21 construction of a dumpster enclosure 22 adjacent to a residentially zoned property. 23 This property is located south 24 of Pontiac Trail, East of Beck Road.
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1 And you are? 2 MR. AJLUNI: Mar Ajluni. 3 MEMBER FISCHER: Sorry if I 4 messed up your name. 5 If you could raise your hand 6 and be sworn in by our secretary. 7 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Do you 8 swear or affirm that the information that 9 you're about to give in the matter before 10 you is the truth? 11 MR. AJLUNI: Yes, I do. 12 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Thank you. 13 MEMBER FISCHER: Please state 14 your name and address, and proceed, please. 15 MR. AJLUNI: My name is Mar 16 Ajluni. I'm with K&S Investment Group. Our 17 address for our main office is 1800 West 18 Fourteen Mile, Royal Oak, Michigan. We do 19 own the K&S Plaza on Beck Road, and the 20 address there, as stated, 30900 Beck Road. 21 What we are requesting is a 22 ten foot variance for the rear and side of 23 our property to construct a dumpster 24 enclosure. Unfortunately, at this time we
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1 are unable to meet the setback rules, 2 because of the way our property is situated. 3 Our building has been in existence for over 4 30 years now. And now they want to put in 5 this enclosure. The property isn't feasible 6 to show -- to meet those setback 7 requirements. 8 The condo development behind 9 us does have a brick wall that borders along 10 their property side. That would be on the 11 east end of our property. And that borders 12 all along the back of our property, and 13 along their property. So the wall that is 14 there would be blocking any residents view 15 of the dumpster enclosure, so it wouldn't be 16 a problem for them; or any of the residents. 17 Second of all, we did get a 18 support letter from the Point Park Complex, 19 condo complex, stating that they do not have 20 an issue with our variance request, and they 21 would support it, as well. 22 In conclusion, the idea of 23 putting this enclosure in is to increase the 24 beautification of the area. As you're
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1 probably aware, that -- we mentioned the 2 condo development that is behind us is brand 3 new. On the north of us, there is new 4 retail development that is under 5 construction. And we are -- now just want 6 to also meet the continued development of 7 the area; and we feel that the enclosure 8 would be the first step to that. 9 And we support or would 10 request your support of approving the 11 variance that we are suggesting. 12 MEMBER FISCHER: Thank you for 13 your comments. 14 In this case, 42 notices were 15 mailed. There were zero approvals and three 16 objections. 17 Madam Secretary, could you 18 read -- please read the correspondence. 19 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Yes. 20 The first objection is from 21 Steven Steiner at 30673 Ardmore Court. I 22 object to the (unintelligible) east dumpster 23 enclosure to the Park Point Condominium 24 Complex.
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1 The next objection is from 2 Brigitte Hindman Wentzel, at 30707 Ardmore 3 Court. My opinion, refuse receptacles 4 should only be placed within parameters 5 established by City Ordinances. This 6 variance could set a precedence for future 7 variance request. 8 The next objection is from 9 Candiar Comick, 30705 Ardmore Court. 10 And as the Petitioner 11 indicated in his testimony that K&S 12 Investments has provided a letter of 13 approval. 14 That's all, Mr. Chair. 15 MEMBER FISCHER: Okay. Thank 16 you, Madam Secretary. 17 Is there anyone in the 18 audience that wishes to comment on this 19 case? 20 Seeing none, I'll ask the 21 Building Department for any comments? 22 MR. SAVEN: It's the intent of 23 the City to want to deal with businesses, as 24 such, to ensure that we have dumpster
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1 enclosures on the property (unintelligible.) 2 One of the things in this particular case 3 that we have to take a look at is the 4 ability to get emergency vehicles around the 5 building. This is one of the reason why we 6 are taking a look at that particular 7 location. 8 I've had discussions with our 9 engineering outfit, and even with the fire 10 department to be able to getting access 11 around the building. Other issue that we 12 have is whether or not we'll be able to get 13 a dump truck or a garbage truck in to pick 14 up the dumpsters and be able to dump them. 15 We're still working 16 (unintelligible) issue regarding the 17 enclosure (unintelligible) even from an 18 Ordinance standpoint of view, we are looking 19 at (unintelligible) existing sight, and 20 that's what we're dealing with. 21 MEMBER FISCHER: Thank you, 22 Mr. Saven. 23 Open it up for Board 24 discussion.
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1 Member Gronachan? 2 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Don, I'm 3 missing something. Where was it before? 4 What got it to this point? 5 MR. SAVEN: I really couldn't 6 tell (unintelligible.) 7 MR. AMOLSCH: Dumpster 8 enclosure Ordinance passed in 1988. And one 9 of the stipulations was that it not public 10 view. It needed to be screened. 11 (Unintelligible) start building condos. 12 MEMBER FISCHER: Okay. 13 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Thank you. 14 Been here a long time, huh? 15 MR. AJLUNI: Yeah, we have. 16 But let me add to -- okay. Go 17 ahead. I'm sorry. 18 MEMBER GRONACHAN: I get the 19 feel that -- given the information that the 20 Petitioner has provided and the length of 21 stay that this business has been in the 22 City -- 23 I will ask Allen again. 24 Has there been any violations
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1 for this business in the past? 2 AMOLSCH: None that I'm aware 3 of. 4 MEMBER GRONACHAN: I can be in 5 full support of this request. It is 6 unfortunate that the residents next door 7 have filed an objection; and I'm not deaf to 8 those objections. 9 However, this is an existing 10 business, and I feel that it's the chicken 11 came after the egg, so to speak, maybe 12 backwards, but I feel that this business has 13 been here. This is not new construction. 14 This is a long-time running business, and it 15 just got caught between the Ordinances. 16 And therefore, given the 17 recommendation from the Building 18 Department -- and I'm sure that the Planning 19 Department has looked at this and advised 20 them. The Petitioner mentions that within 21 our packet. They've talked to the Planning 22 Department. 23 I have no problem with this, 24 given the information that was presented to
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1 us. 2 Thank you, Mr. Chair. 3 MEMBER FISCHER: Thank you, 4 Miss Gronachan. 5 Any further discussion? 6 I have a question. 7 As far as the enclosure, 8 what -- is there a specific type of 9 enclosure that's going to be in place, or is 10 it up to the Petitioner? 11 MR. SAVEN: If you take a look 12 at what was presented, in terms of that 13 enclosure and that masonry wall, they have 14 comply with that. 15 MEMBER FISCHER: Okay. 16 Thank you, Mr. Saven. 17 Member Sanghvi? 18 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you, 19 Mr. Chairman. 20 If there's no further 21 discussion, I would like to make a Motion. 22 That in Case Number 05-084, we approve the 23 variance requested by the applicant because 24 of the special circumstances of the existing
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1 business; and the turn around space required 2 for the vehicles to move. 3 MEMBER BAUER: Second. 4 MEMBER FISCHER: There's a 5 Motion and a second on the table. 6 Any further discussion? 7 Seeing none, Miss Backus, will 8 you please call the roll. 9 GAIL BACKUS: Member Sanghvi? 10 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes. 11 GAIL BACKUS: Member Bauer? 12 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 13 GAIL BACKUS: Member Brennan? 14 MEMBER BRENNAN: Yes. 15 GAIL BACKUS: Member Canup? 16 MEMBER CANUP: Yes. 17 GAIL BACKUS: Member Fischer? 18 MEMBER FISCHER: Aye. 19 GAIL BACKUS: And Member 20 Gronachan? 21 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Yes. 22 GAIL BACKUS: Motion passes 23 six to zero. 24 MEMBER FISCHER: Your variance
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1 has been granted. Thank you very much. 2 Best of luck to you. 3 MR. AJLUNI: Thank you very 4 much. I appreciate it. 5 6 MEMBER FISCHER: And I would 7 like to call Case Number 05-085, filed by 8 property owner in unit 42 of Bellagio 9 Subdivision. The applicant is seeking a 10 variance for an accessory structure in the 11 front yard, a brick wall in connection with 12 landscaping improvements. 13 Is the applicant here tonight? 14 MR. SARATANI: Yes. 15 MEMBER FISCHER: Please come 16 up. 17 And whoever will be speaking, 18 step up and be sworn in by our secretary. 19 MR. SARATANI: Good evening. 20 My name is James Saratani. 21 MEMBER FISCHER: Please raise 22 your right hand. 23 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Do you 24 swear or affirm that the information that
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1 you're about to give in the matter before 2 you is the truth? 3 MR. SARATANI: I do. 4 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Thank you. 5 MR. SARATANI: Good evening. 6 The reason why I'm hear 7 tonight is to request a variance for a 8 landscape wall for lot Number 42 in 9 Bellagio. This wall was put in -- and I'd 10 like to put an overhead up so you can see 11 the wall that I'm talking about. The reason 12 why we need a variance is that this wall has 13 a footing, okay. We installed this wall 14 because it was out of the setback of the 15 sewer easement. 16 It later came to our attention 17 that it is in a utility easement, and that 18 we do need a variance for that. And that is 19 why we're requesting that this evening. 20 Also, the reason why -- first 21 of all, why I need a wall there, as you can 22 see a little bit from that photo, there's 23 about a five to six foot drop from the 24 walkway, going into the front door, down to
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1 the street. So a wall is necessary to 2 support the topography of the yard. 3 At this time also, I'd like to 4 put up another photo of the neighbor's wall, 5 that shows the same type of elevation and 6 topography that we're dealing with; the 7 necessity of a wall is needed. On the 8 as-built that is in front of you, it does 9 show, you know, that we are outside of the 10 sewer easement. Also, we have had approval 11 from the developer, and also we've had 12 approval from the neighbors, the surrounding 13 neighbors. 14 The reason that we chose this 15 type of wall is -- and I'll go ahead and put 16 the Lot 42 wall back up on the screen 17 here -- it is -- the integrity of this wall 18 is the strength. Over time, the way this 19 wall is constructed, to hold the land; and 20 that is the reason why we chose to go with a 21 wall of this type. 22 And with that, I ask your 23 approval tonight for a variance for this 24 landscape wall.
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1 MEMBER FISCHER: All right, 2 thank you very much. 3 In this case, there were 14 4 notices mailed; five approvals, zero 5 objections. 6 Madam Secretary, could you 7 please read the correspondence. 8 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Yes. 9 As mentioned by the 10 Petitioner, the approval from Mark(ph) Bono 11 who is from Cambridge Homes. 12 Next approve is from James R. 13 Solka at 47885 Bellagio Court. I'm in full 14 support of the landscaping wall that's 15 proposed at Lot 42. It is pleasing to the 16 eye, as well as functional. This is another 17 Petitioner, another residence that 18 actually -- the next letter is from Richard 19 E. Bayer, B-a-y-e-r, 47615 Bellagio Court, 20 is in full support. And finally, Bradley 21 Taylor, 47795 Bellagio. 22 And that's the correspondence, 23 Mr. Chair. 24 MEMBER FISCHER: Thank you,
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1 Madam Secretary. 2 Is there anyone in the 3 audience that wishes to comment on this 4 case? 5 Seeing none, Building 6 Department? 7 MR. SAVEN: I think one of the 8 most difficult things to develop 9 (unintelligible) landscaping wall. If this 10 wall did not have a footing, he would not be 11 here before us. Because of the interlocking 12 of block (unintelligible) the issue that it 13 had (unintelligible) wall attachment to the 14 ground. If the wall to the south 15 (unintelligible) take a look at purpose of 16 this structure is stability of the 17 foundation would probably be necessary for 18 what they've got out there. 19 So, that's my input. 20 MEMBER FISCHER: Thank you, 21 Mr. Saven. 22 And Mr. Schultz, did you have 23 a comment? 24 MR. SCHULTZ: The good thing
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1 these are fairly typical in these 2 developments. The only thing that's worth 3 noting is the fact this is part of -- this 4 is an easement (unintelligible) ask that we 5 get an agreement property owners sign that 6 says if they've got go in there and work on 7 the sewer, that's adding (unintelligible) 8 property owner of a license agreement 9 insurance, standard City form that we would 10 give the Petitioner. 11 MEMBER FISCHER: Thank you, 12 Mr. Schultz. 13 Member Gronachan? 14 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Mr. Saven, 15 my question's for you. 16 The Petitioner indicated that 17 this is actually to prevent erosion and 18 settlement, that's correct in this 19 particular case? 20 MR. SAVEN: Probably slide, 21 too, yes. 22 MEMBER GRONACHAN: So there's 23 a real need here. Not just a look pretty 24 function for in particular --
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1 MR. SAVEN: I thinks there's a 2 couple things to take into consideration. 3 (unintelligible) building the house, 4 elevations that are set for the front door 5 elevation for what is that grade level and 6 the function and use of the property; be 7 able to utilize all of those particular 8 factors for that particular parcel of land. 9 They are about acre lots out there. 10 (unintelligible) grade and elevation, and 11 that makes the difference. 12 MEMBER GRONACHAN: I have no 13 reservations in regards to this request. I 14 think the Petitioner very clearly due to the 15 lay of the land, the elevation, the 16 topography. We've all been out there. 17 These are unique size lots. The elevation 18 is definitely different for Novi. You think 19 you're in Colorado. But I think that the 20 wall serves a purpose, in terms of part of 21 the construction, and I would be in full 22 support. 23 Thank you, Mr. Chair. 24 MEMBER FISCHER: I never
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1 thought I was in Colorado, but. 2 Member Brennan? 3 MEMBER BRENNAN: I recall a 4 couple of cases of walls they were more 5 decorative. They were obstructive. They 6 were, you know, six foot in height, and 7 we've never been compelled to grant a 8 variance under those conditions. This is a 9 structural part of the home site. 10 I don't have any big deal with 11 this. 12 MEMBER FISCHER: Member Canup? 13 MEMBER CANUP: Sounds like 14 everybody's in agreement that this is an 15 okay thing. 16 The only thing I think we need 17 to be aware of or make note of is the fact 18 if there is a Motion made -- I'll make a 19 Motion, if everybody's in agreement, that we 20 refer the legalities to our City Attorney to 21 get those incorporated into the Motion, so 22 that it becomes a record. 23 And if there is a problem in 24 that easement, that it is not the City's
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1 expense to replace that wall. 2 MR. SCHULTZ: We will do that. 3 MEMBER CANUP: I'd like to 4 make a Motion to that effect, that we 5 approve, Case Number 05-085 as requested, 6 with the stipulation that the legal terms be 7 entered -- that a legal agreement be entered 8 into with the City as advised by our City 9 Attorney. 10 MEMBER BAUER: Second. 11 MEMBER BRENNAN: Second. 12 MEMBER FISCHER: There's a 13 Motion and a second. 14 Is that in agreement with you, 15 as well, Mr. Schultz? 16 MR. SCHULTZ: Yes. And again, 17 this is a typical form. It's not 18 (unintelligible) 19 MEMBER FISCHER: There's a 20 Motion and a second. 21 Is there any further 22 discussion? 23 Seeing none, Miss Backus, will 24 you please call the roll.
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1 GAIL BACKUS: Member Canup? 2 MEMBER CANUP: Yes. 3 GAIL BACKUS: Member Bauer? 4 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 5 GAIL BACKUS: Member Sanghvi? 6 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes. 7 GAIL BACKUS: Member 8 Gronachan? 9 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Yes. 10 GAIL BACKUS: Member Fischer? 11 MEMBER FISCHER: Aye. 12 GAIL BACKUS: And Member 13 Brennan? 14 MEMBER BRENNAN: Yes. 15 GAIL BACKUS: Motion passes 16 six to zero. 17 MEMBER CANUP: Mr. Chairman, I 18 would just like to make sure the record 19 reads that if this thing is -- ever has to 20 be dug up, it's not the City's 21 responsibility to replace the landscaping as 22 shown. I can see this as being a very 23 costly piece of landscaping, and they built 24 it in an easement. Their problem, not ours.
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1 I want to make sure the record indicates 2 that. 3 Thank you. 4 MR. SCHULTZ: (Unintelligible) 5 intend to make that very clear. We probably 6 (unintelligible) record it (unintelligible) 7 registered deed. 8 MEMBER CANUP: That's fine, 9 thank you. 10 MEMBER FISCHER: All set, 11 Mr. Canup, with that? 12 MEMBER CANUP: Yes. 13 MEMBER FISCHER: Mr. Schultz? 14 MR. SCHULTZ: Yes. 15 MEMBER FISCHER: Your variance 16 has been granted with that stipulation. 17 Please see our Building Department and good 18 luck. 19 MR. SARATANI: I appreciate 20 your decision and your time. 21 Thank you. 22 MEMBER FISCHER: Thank you. 23 24 And next we have Case Number,
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1 05-086, filed by Douglas Necci with Metro 2 Services for a residence at 2117 West Lake 3 Drive. The applicant is requesting a 4 variance to allow placement of a landscaped 5 stone wall (accessory structure) to be 6 constructed within a front and exterior side 7 yard. 8 This property is located north 9 of the South Lake Court and east of West 10 Park Drive. 11 Would you please raise your 12 hand and be sworn in by our secretary. 13 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Do you 14 swear or affirm that the information that 15 you're about to give in the matter before 16 you is the truth? 17 MR. NECCI: I do. 18 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Thank you. 19 MEMBER FISCHER: Please raise 20 -- I'm sorry. 21 Please state your name and 22 address and proceed. 23 MR. NECCI: My name is Doug 24 Necci. I live at 50850 Opal Drive in Novi.
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1 I'm here representing Jan 2 Rosenthal, the homeowner of this property, 3 requesting a variance for a approximately 4 three feet high decorative masonry wall, 5 which is to be located at -- along the 6 southwest and part of the northerly property 7 line of this parcel. 8 This is a unique parcel in 9 that it is abutting kind of a dead-end 10 cul-de-sac, which is the end of South Lake 11 Court. 12 This road tends to be kind of 13 a gathering place. It's used kind of 14 unintendedly as a parking area for people 15 that use what used to be South Lake Court, 16 which is now kind of a nature trail. So 17 it's frequented by joggers and people 18 walking, and a lot of people that just kind 19 of go through there to take in the sights, 20 and walk along the shoreline of the lake. 21 And as such, there's a real 22 increase in the amount of visitors into that 23 area. Mr. Rosenthal has some unique 24 requirements. In fact, his home was
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1 designed as a special facility. He has some 2 health issues, which I won't get into, but 3 they will necessitate that he be 4 incapacitated in this home for long periods 5 of time. And so he's worried about 6 disturbances frankly of people just kind of 7 wandering around. 8 In this area, the boundaries 9 of the private property are not obvious, 10 like they are in subdivisions. This is kind 11 of an unusual setting. So that's one of the 12 reasons we are wanting to build this wall. 13 But more importantly, there's 14 an existing steel guardrail that's been 15 along the road there for as long as we have 16 known about the lot. I do have a -- in 17 fact, I'll hand out a picture here, kind of 18 a (unintelligible) view here. Pass that 19 around. 20 This guardrail was put up 21 basically to keep cars from overshooting, 22 coming south on South Lake Court and ending 23 up in the lake, I think. Now it serves an 24 even more important function, in that it
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1 would prevent cars from running into this 2 new home. But as you can see, it's a rather 3 unsightly thing. 4 So what we've designed is a 5 masonry wall that will replace that 6 guardrail. In fact, in order to build our 7 wall, we'll have to remove that guardrail, 8 which will have to be approved by whatever 9 Government agency has jurisdiction over it. 10 Our wall is -- it has a foundation and 11 reinforced block for that reason, because we 12 want to protect this home from the unlikely 13 event of a car kind of overshooting the 14 road. 15 So, I think you received the 16 landscape plan which shows the plan for the 17 wall. It's three feet high over most of 18 it's length. There's some piers that are 19 four feet high. And then there's a gateway 20 into the main driveway area, which is, I 21 think six feet high. There's two doors, 22 which for (unintelligible) that gateway. 23 The gateway is needed really because that is 24 more or less right in line with South Lake
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1 Court, and cars could actually run right up 2 into the garage, so to speak. 3 So for those reason, we think 4 we have a unique situation here. Obviously, 5 this is a very upscale home, and we feel 6 that that steel guardrail is not really a 7 fitting object to be in the foreground of 8 this -- a home of this stature. 9 So we respectfully request 10 approval of this masonry wall. 11 MEMBER FISCHER: Thank you for 12 your comments. 13 In this case, there were 27 14 notices mailed; one approval, zero 15 objections. 16 Madam Secretary, please read 17 the correspondence. 18 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Thank you. 19 It is from Debra Blasfield at 20 2105 West Lake Drive. I looked at the plans 21 for the proposed wall for the stated 22 address. My house is four houses away from 23 this. And although there is nothing similar 24 to this wall in the neighborhood, I think it
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1 would be a positive addition to the new 2 home. It appears to be keeping with the 3 style and type of a home being built there. 4 I encourage (unintelligible) request for a 5 variance. 6 MEMBER FISCHER: Thank you, 7 Madam Secretary. 8 Is there anyone in the 9 audience that wishes to comment on this 10 case? 11 Seeing none, I'll ask the 12 Building Department for any comments? 13 MR. SAVEN: No comments, sir. 14 MEMBER FISCHER: And after 15 that, we'll open it up for Board discussion? 16 Member Canup? 17 MEMBER CANUP: I think it's 18 very tasteful. It's going to blend well 19 with the house; and it's a credit to the 20 community. 21 And I'd like to make a Motion, 22 if nobody has a problem with this. 23 You have something you'd like 24 to say?
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1 I'll withhold my Motion. 2 MEMBER FISCHER: Thank you, 3 Mr. Canup. 4 Member Gronachan? 5 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Thank you, 6 Member Canup. 7 I'm concerned about the 8 guardrail. 9 Have you done research in 10 regards to this guardrail? 11 MR. NECCI: Actually, we've 12 discussed it with Mr. McCuster, the DPW 13 director, and he has agreed that it's in 14 ill-repair. It's really a -- not up to 15 normal standards. It's basically falling 16 down. We're not sure exactly -- actually 17 only part of the guardrail interferes with 18 our proposal. It kind of crosses 19 (unintelligible) the site plan. As you see, 20 about a third of the guardrail is within 21 this homeowner's property, and the rest is 22 out in the road, easement. So, there's no 23 way we can do both, leave the guardrail and 24 build this wall.
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1 MEMBER GRONACHAN: So at this 2 time, just for the record, you do not have 3 the okay from the City to have the guardrail 4 removed at this point, anything in writing? 5 MR. NECCI: Not in writing, 6 no. 7 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. 8 MR. NECCI: But it would be -- 9 this would be contingent on that, obviously. 10 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay, thank 11 you. 12 Mr. Schultz, I have a question 13 for you. 14 Where are we in terms of -- I 15 mean, I understand the Petitioner's request 16 and I would be glad to support it, but I'm 17 looking at the legality of it and the 18 liability authorizing something, as a 19 guardrail, that the City put there. Now 20 we're removing it and it's going to be 21 replaced (unintelligible) not putting the 22 cart before the horse. 23 MR. SCHULTZ: If I may, 24 through the Chair?
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1 MEMBER FISCHER: Please. 2 MR. SCHULTZ: You know, some 3 times it's hard to know which comes first. 4 None of this (unintelligible) City directly, 5 in terms of a liability standpoint. I 6 didn't see the guardrail shown on the plans 7 but, all you're doing is acting on the 8 request of putting the structure in the 9 front exterior side yard. 10 Any other permits that Mr. 11 Necci is going to have to get on behalf of 12 his client are things that are not included 13 in your Motion. 14 If you want to be careful and 15 say granted subject to all other subject 16 approvals (unintelligible) guardrail, 17 nothing wrong with that. But he's got a 18 number of things he's got to get in place. 19 Your granting his variance, doesn't 20 guarantee him the right to do whatever. He 21 needs other permits for -- 22 MEMBER GRONACHAN: I just want 23 to make sure that by us approving this, does 24 not hold the City liable in any way, shape
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1 or form, in terms of the safety, because of 2 that guardrail. 3 MR. SCHULTZ: All I would -- 4 as I understand the application. The 5 Petitioner owns the property. With regard 6 to that guardrail is a separate issue. 7 (Unintelligible) contingent on whatever 8 other approvals (unintelligible.) 9 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay, thank 10 you very much. 11 I'm okay with that. 12 I got my head clear now. 13 You can go ahead. 14 MEMBER FISCHER: And Member 15 Canup? 16 MEMBER CANUP: If there's no 17 further discussion on 05-086, I would make a 18 Motion that we grant the variance as 19 requested, and it would be subject to the 20 other agreements that are needed -- 21 Is that the proper wording? 22 MR. SCHULTZ: Other permits or 23 approvals. 24 MEMBER CANUP: -- other
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1 permits or approvals that are needed for the 2 construction of the wall. 3 MEMBER BAUER: Second. 4 MEMBER FISCHER: There's a 5 Motion and a second on the table. 6 Any further discussion? 7 Seeing none, Miss Backus, will 8 you please call the roll. 9 GAIL BACKUS: Member Canup? 10 MEMBER CANUP: Yes. 11 GAIL BACKUS: Member Bauer? 12 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 13 GAIL BACKUS: Member Brennan? 14 MEMBER BRENNAN: No. 15 GAIL BACKUS: Member Fischer? 16 MEMBER FISCHER: Aye. 17 GAIL BACKUS: Member 18 Gronachan? 19 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Yes. 20 GAIL BACKUS: Member Sanghvi? 21 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes. 22 GAIL BACKUS: Motion passes 23 five to one. 24 MEMBER FISCHER: Your variance
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1 has been granted. Please see the Building 2 Department and good luck. 3 MR. NECCI: Thank you very 4 much. 5 6 MEMBER FISCHER: I'll ask 7 anyone in the audience -- looks like 8 everyone was with the last case. We do have 9 one that was tabled from the beginning of 10 the meeting, Case Number 05-076, filed by 11 Gus O'Connor's for a sign variance. 12 There's no one in the 13 audience. How does the Board wish to 14 proceed? 15 Member Brennan? 16 MEMBER BRENNAN: As much as I 17 lobbied for support of this case last month, 18 I will be consistent with the position of 19 the Board that if a party doesn't show up -- 20 and we had no notification they weren't 21 showing up -- I will have to recommend that 22 we vote to dismiss this case. And if they 23 want to come back, they file and go through 24 it again.
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1 MEMBER FISCHER: Motion to 2 deny? 3 MEMBER BRENNAN: Yes, sir. 4 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Second. 5 MEMBER CANUP: It is a Motion 6 to deny, not dismiss. 7 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes. 8 MEMBER BRENNAN: Nod over 9 there for denial, yes. 10 MR. SCHULTZ: Attorney will 11 second. 12 MEMBER FISCHER: There's a 13 Motion to deny based on the premises that 14 the Petitioner's not here, and a second. 15 Ms. Backus, will you please 16 call the roll. 17 I guess I will open it for 18 discussion. 19 Member Bauer? 20 The only time I did not ask 21 that question, now you have to pipe up. 22 MEMBER BAUER: Sorry about 23 that. 24 MEMBER FISCHER: Please, take
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1 the floor. 2 MEMBER BAUER: Shouldn't we 3 also have the sign taken down? 4 MR. AMOLSCH: That will be 5 done. 6 MEMBER FISCHER: They're 7 required by our application any way, and the 8 rules that we set as a Board, to take it 9 down five days after the Hearing. So they 10 are going to be required to take that down 11 five days from now anyway, as far as I 12 understand it. 13 I see heads nodding. 14 Wonderful. 15 Any other discussion? 16 Ms. Backus, will you please 17 call the roll. 18 GAIL BACKUS: Member Brennan? 19 MEMBER BRENNAN: Oh, I hate to 20 go on record for this. Yes. 21 GAIL BACKUS: Member 22 Gronachan? 23 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Yes. 24 GAIL BACKUS: Member Bauer?
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1 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 2 GAIL BACKUS: Member Canup? 3 MEMBER CANUP: Yes. 4 GAIL BACKUS: Member Fischer? 5 MEMBER FISCHER: Aye. 6 GAIL BACKUS: And Member 7 Sanghvi? 8 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes. 9 GAIL BACKUS: Motion passes 10 six to zero. 11 12 MEMBER FISCHER: That takes 13 care of our cases. What a wonderful night. 14 A quick night. He should do this more than 15 often. 16 MEMBER GRONACHAN: He just 17 jinxed us. Next month there will be 16. 18 19 MEMBER FISCHER: And we'll 20 move to other matters, ZBA training. 21 Mr. Saven, would you like to 22 comment? 23 MR. SAVEN: Yes. 24 Base upon some past interest
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1 in regards to training for the ZBA members, 2 I have had a discussion with Mr. Schultz in 3 regards to the days and availability. And 4 I'm going to throw out some days and times, 5 and I'm hopeful that we can come to a 6 resolve as to when we can do this. 7 November 9th, 15th and 16th. 8 The 9th is a Wednesday; November 15 is a 9 Tuesday; and November 16 is Wednesday. We 10 were looking at 5:30 to 6:00 area to 8:00 in 11 the evening; or on Wednesday -- excuse me, 12 on Saturday, November 5th or Saturday, 13 November 12th from 8:30 to 12:00. 14 Those are the dates and times 15 we're looking at for the training, and Tom 16 will be available for the ZBA training. 17 MEMBER GRONACHAN: I'm sorry. 18 What was the Saturday, again? 19 MR. SAVEN: November 5th and 20 November 12th. 21 So if you can get your 22 information to Gail as to what those dates 23 are; hopefully we can work it out here, 24 right now. It's up to you.
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1 MEMBER BAUER: Where? 2 MR. SAVEN: Right here. 3 MEMBER FISCHER: It would be 4 my suggestion that we each pick a different 5 date so Mr. Schultz has to come back every 6 single day and meet with us individually. 7 MR. SCHULTZ: We have -- also 8 can do it at our office. Not that it's any 9 closer to me. My house is actually closer 10 to here. Just see to be (unintelligible) 11 accommodating. 12 MEMBER CANUP: You have coffee 13 and donuts in your office? 14 MR. SCHULTZ: We do. 15 13 and Northwestern. 16 MEMBER CANUP: We'd better 17 have it here. 18 MEMBER FISCHER: All right. I 19 think the consensus is to have it within -- 20 somewhere within the Civic Center. 21 Thank you for the offer, 22 though. 23 MR. SCHULTZ: No coffee and 24 donuts.
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1 MEMBER FISCHER: And do we 2 have any consensus on dates? 3 Let's start with weekday or 4 weekend? 5 Does anyone have any comments 6 as to that? 7 MEMBER SANGHVI: I would rather 8 do it on a weekday than a weekend. 9 MEMBER FISCHER: I would 10 agree. 11 And I think out of all of us, 12 Member Krieger has the most difficult. 13 She's a nurse, if I am correct? So should 14 I -- (unintelligible.) 15 So are any of those weekdays 16 possible for you, Member Krieger? 17 MEMBER KRIEGER: I don't have 18 that schedule made out yet, so you can pick 19 a day and I'll get it off. I'll try. 20 MEMBER GRONACHAN: So is the 21 general consensus a weeknight? I couldn't 22 be there until 6:00, couldn't be here until 23 6:00. 24 MEMBER FISCHER: That's fine,
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1 too. 2 MEMBER SANGHVI: That's okay. 3 MEMBER FISCHER: We'll update 4 you (unintelligible.) 5 9, 15, 16; is that right? 6 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Yeah. Just 7 pick a day, just do it? The 9th, Wednesday. 8 MEMBER CANUP: Wednesday's a 9 good day. 10 MEMBER FISCHER: 9th or the 11 16th? 12 MEMBER GRONACHAN: 9th sounds 13 good. 14 MEMBER FISCHER: So you want 15 to shoot for the 9th? 16 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Our meeting 17 is the 8th; is that right? 18 MEMBER FISCHER: No, our 19 meeting is the 1st. Election day is the 20 8th. 21 So all Board Members agree the 22 9th. If there's any conflicts, please let 23 Ms. Backus or you can let me know. 24 MEMBER BRENNAN: I won't be
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1 attending. 2 MEMBER FISCHER: Okay. 3 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Just so I 4 understand, we're going to go over Motion 5 making, (unintelligible) as well? I think 6 probably some just general basic stuff I 7 think I'm going to focus on Motion making. 8 And usually ZBA. Members find that most 9 interesting. They all (unintelligible) the 10 rules, question on making the record. So 11 that's going to be a substantial part of it. 12 I think for any new members, 13 it will be helpful to have just sort of a 14 general description of what your authorities 15 are, where (unintelligible) where your 16 authority to (unintelligible.) 17 MEMBER FISCHER: Not a bad 18 refresher, either. I think you gave us 19 these sheets. 20 MR. SAVEN: Yes, and hopefully 21 I'll have them (unintelligible) for the next 22 meeting. 23 MEMBER BAUER: Okay, guys, 24 very good.
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1 MEMBER FISCHER: Okay. 2 Then November 9th it is. 3 If there's any other 4 discussion? 5 MEMBER CANUP: I would like to 6 address the Board. My life is changing some 7 what, being I'm not totally fully employed 8 anymore, but I'll work 60 hours a week 9 instead of 80. And Diane and I are going to 10 be spending, at least January, February, and 11 March in Florida so that would make it 12 pretty near impossible for me to attend the 13 meetings. If it would be the Boards' 14 desire, I would resign and open that space 15 up. I don't feel it's fair that we don't 16 represent the Board with a -- represent the 17 Board have a full Board for the people that 18 come before us for their decisions. 19 So if the Board wanted me to, 20 I'd be more than willing to resign based on 21 those facts. If you wanted to fill that 22 with the alternate, that would be fine, too. 23 I enjoy being on the Board. I also feel it 24 needs to be fair to the people that come
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1 before us. 2 MEMBER FISCHER: Thank you, 3 Mr. Canup. 4 Ms. Gronachan? 5 MEMBER GRONACHAN: You don't 6 think you're leaving us that quickly, do 7 you? 8 MEMBER CANUP: I was hoping 9 you weren't going to let me off the hook. 10 MEMBER BAUER: No way. 11 MEMBER CANUP: I just wanted 12 to make sure. I am not going to be in the 13 area definitely January, February, and 14 March. 15 MEMBER GRONACHAN: The only 16 thing I'd like today is, given the current 17 status of the Board, this Member -- I speak 18 for me personally, but I know some of the 19 outside factors that are involved -- your 20 knowledge and experience is needed at this 21 point, at least to get us through the first 22 of the year. And the fact that you're going 23 to be gone January, February, and March, I'm 24 sure we could get a special dispensation by
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1 that time. 2 Our newest member could be 3 brought up to snuff, so to speak, 4 (unintelligible.) And then maybe when you 5 came back, if you still felt that way, we 6 could -- we could all meet for coffee and 7 Tom's office and talk about it. 8 MEMBER FISCHER: Let's bring 9 it back to a serious point at this point, 10 but as far as rules of the Board go, are we 11 okay with three meetings being missed? Is 12 that an automatic? 13 MR. SAVEN: I think 14 (unintelligible) that you'd have to discuss 15 in regard to Policies and Procedures. Most 16 of you are aware -- that's been on board a 17 long time, attendance is a key factor for 18 every Board Member here. And I just want to 19 make sure that our City Council is aware of 20 what's taking place. If there's a problem 21 here, let's us now. This City is not a city 22 that can just -- that sits by waits for 23 certainly things to happen. 24 We're going to be power packed
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1 for the next (unintelligible) coming up with 2 several issues, maybe very specific issues 3 coming up for next year. 4 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Right. And 5 I understand that. But the fact is we 6 can -- could utilize Mr. Canup for November 7 and December. 8 MEMBER FISCHER: Oh, yes. 9 MEMBER CANUP: I was not 10 resigning until the December meeting, if 11 that were -- 12 MR. SAVEN: I agree with you, 13 Brent. I really appreciate the fact of you 14 letting us know that. (Unintelligible) 15 getting on the stick to get some 16 replacements, as necessary. 17 MEMBER FISCHER: I agree. 18 So check on the rules and 19 policies and make sure we're all set with 20 that as far as that goes. 21 And also, is there a way to 22 let Council know that we are having changes 23 and whatnot? Can we -- 24 MR. SAVEN: It's already been
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1 done. 2 MEMBER FISCHER: Okay. We 3 have had correspondence with them. 4 Okay. (Unintelligible.) 5 MR. SAVEN: And I do want to 6 point that out. We're not going to put 7 anybody on the Board until new Council comes 8 in. I guarantee that. That's all I am not 9 going to say anything out of school. I am 10 being very upfront with you. 11 (Unintelligible) going to be 12 looking, November, December (unintelligible) 13 arrangement, so those have to be first on 14 the agenda to get somebody on Board. 15 MEMBER GRONACHAN: (unintelli 16 gible) whoever outs there is listening. 17 We -- don't wait until March for this to 18 happen. Okay I said it. 19 MEMBER CANUP: I am going to 20 come back. 21 MEMBER BRENNAN: I'm going to 22 be gone. The (unintelligible) three months 23 thing, if there's a time limit you can miss, 24 three meeting and it works --
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1 MR. SAVEN: That's what I need 2 to find out. 3 MEMBER CANUP: Doesn't work 4 (unintelligible.) 5 MEMBER BRENNAN: There is an 6 opening for my position. I've given my 7 resignation already. I'll probably come in 8 November, and after that we'll just kind of 9 play it by ear. Full-time position opening 10 here, soon. 11 MEMBER FISCHER: Thank you, 12 Member Brennan. (Unintelligible) missed 13 very much, as well. 14 MR. SAVEN: Like not 15 (unintelligible) right now whether he is 16 going to be here next months or not, even 17 from the public standpoint (unintelligible) 18 that are watching, I really appreciate all 19 the stuff that you men have done for us, for 20 this Board. I'm sure every Member here 21 feels the same way. We've definitely 22 benefited in everything you've done. 23 MEMBER BRENNAN: Thank you. 24 MEMBER FISCHER: (unintelligi
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1 ble.) Any way, I will not entertain a 2 Motion to adjourn? 3 MEMBER SANGHVI: So moved. 4 MEMBER FISCHER: All in favor 5 say aye? 6 BOARD MEMBERS: Aye. 7 MEMBER FISCHER: The Zoning 8 Board is hereby adjourned. 9 (The meeting was adjourned at 10 9:09 p.m.) 11 - - - - - - 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24
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1 C E R T I F I C A T E 2 3 I, Machelle Billingslea-Moore, 4 do hereby certify that I have recorded 5 stenographically the proceedings had and testimony 6 taken in the above-entitled matter at the time and 7 place hereinbefore set forth, and I do further certify 8 that the foregoing transcript, consisting of (104) 9 typewritten pages, is a true and correct transcript 10 of my said stenograph notes. 11 12 13 ___________________________ Machelle Billingslea-Moore, 14 Certified Shorthand Reporter 15 16 October 15, 2005. (Date)
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