View Agenda for this meeting
View Action Summary for this meeting

REGULAR MEETING - ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
CITY OF NOVI
TUESDAY, MARCH 1, 2005

Proceedings had and testimony taken in the matters of the ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS, at City of Novi, 45175 West Ten Mile Road, Novi, Michigan, Tuesday, March 1, 2005.

BOARD MEMBERS
Cynthia Gronachan, Chairman
Justin Fischer
Gerald Bauer
Frank Brennan
Siddarth Sanghvi

ALSO PRESENT:
Don Saven, Building Department
Alan Amolsch, Ordinance Enforcement
Gail Backus, ZBA Recording Secretary

REPORTED BY:
Machelle Billingslea-Moore, Certified Shorthand Reporter.

 

1 Novi, Michigan

2 Tuesday, March 1, 2005

3 At 7:30 p.m.

4 - - - - - -

5 MEMBER GRONACHAN: I

6 would like to call the March,

7 2005, Zoning Board of Appeals

8 meeting to order.

9 Gail, would you please call

10 roll.

11 GAIL BACKUS: Member Bauer.

12 MEMBER BAUER: Present.

13 GAIL BACKUS: Member Brennan?

14 MEMBER BRENNAN: Here.

15 GAIL BACKUS: Member Canup

16 absent, excused.

17 Member Fischer?

18 MEMBER FISCHER: Present.

19 GAIL BACKUS: Member Gronachan?

20 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Aye.

21 GAIL BACKUS: Member Sanghvi?

22 MEMBER SANGHVI: Here.

23 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay.

24 The Zoning Board of Appeals is a

3

 

 

1 Hearing body, empowered by the Novi City Charter,

2 to hear appeals seeking variances from the

3 application of the Novi Zoning Ordinance. It

4 takes a vote of at least four Members to approve

5 a variance request; and a vote of the majority of

6 the Members present to deny a variance. A full

7 Board consists of six Members.

8 Since we only have five Members

9 present this evening, at least four votes are

10 required. Those Petitioners at this time who

11 wish to have their case tabled until next meeting

12 when a full Board is present, may do so now.

13 Is there anyone in the audience

14 this evening that has a case in front of the

15 Board that wishes to have their case tabled until

16 next month before a full Board?

17 Seeing none, all decisions will

18 be final this evening.

19 Are there any changes to the

20 agenda?

21 GAIL BACKUS: No.

22 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Mr. Saven?

23 MR. SAVEN: Madam Chair, Members

24 of the Board, I respectfully request that in the

4

 

 

1 seventh case you're reviewing, Case Number:

2 05-011, I respectfully request that it be placed

3 at the end of the agenda due to the unique nature

4 of this case. The presentation might take some

5 time, and the people beyond that time, it may be

6 better for them if they were heard before this

7 case.

8 So we'll be moving cases 8, 9

9 and 10 up; and 7 will be the last case.

10 Duly noted.

11 Any other changes?

12 MR. SAVEN: One other issue,

13 please.

14 I'd also like to mention that

15 I'd like to place for discussion for next month,

16 the election of Officers, please.

17 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Ok

18 ay.

19 MEMBER BRENNAN: Madam Chair?

20 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Member

21 Brennan?

22 MEMBER BRENNAN: Case Number two,

23 I believe, has been tabled, that's 05-003.

24 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Is

5

 

 

1 that correct, Gail?

2 GAIL BACKUS: Uh-huh, Telcom.

3 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay, it has

4 been --

5 Anything else?

6 Okay. I'll move to approval of

7 the agenda as it stands, say aye?

8 BOARD MEMBERS: Aye.

9 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Any opposed?

10 None.

11 There were a packet of Minutes

12 in our -- there were a set of Minutes in our

13 packet for February.

14 Are there any changes or

15 deletions in the Minutes?

16 MEMBER BAUER: Move to approve.

17 MEMBER GRONACHAN: All those in

18 favor of the February Minutes as printed, say

19 aye?

20 BOARD MEMBERS: Aye.

21 MEMBER GRONACHAN: None opposed.

22 At this time, if there is anyone

23 in the audience that wishes to address the Board

24 in regards to making comments on anything other

6

 

 

1 than what's in front of the Board this evening,

2 may do so now.

3 Is there anyone in the audience

4 that wishes to make comment in regards to any

5 matters that are not in front of us this evening?

6 Seeing none, we will -- the only

7 other thing I would like to add at this point is

8 that there is a set of Rules of Conduct on the

9 front of the agenda -- on the front of this

10 evening's agenda. I'm going to ask all members

11 who are going present themselves in front of the

12 Board this evening, to please review those

13 Minutes -- review those rules, I'm sorry;

14 specifically, the cell phones to be turned off

15 and the time limits in presenting the cases.

16

17 And with that, we'll go ahead

18 and start with Case Number: 05-002, filed by

19 Paul Deters for Metro Detroit Signs for Discount

20 Tire, located at 42990 Grand River.

21 Board Members, you will recall

22 that this case was tabled from our last month's

23 meeting.

24 Good evening.

7

 

 

1 MR. DETERS: Good evening.

2 MEMBER GRONACHAN: And you are?

3 MR. DETERS: My name is Paul

4 A. Deters from Metro Detroit Signs.

5 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Mr.

6 Deters, you were sworn in

7 last month, correct?

8 MR. DETERS: Uh-huh.

9 MEMBER GRONACHAN: You

10 may proceed with your

11 testimony.

12 MR. DETERS: Thank you.

13 Just as a recap, here for the

14 folks, you will recall, we had presented our case

15 to add monument sign to improve visibility for

16 the Discount Tire location. And a part of that

17 discussion was that the Discount Tire

18 representatives agree to remove the existing wall

19 sign that they have there.

20 The sign that's in front of you

21 this evening requires a variance, because the

22 current setback requires a 63 foot setback from

23 the center line of the road. Where we have the

24 sign proposed, is a 50 foot setback from the

8

 

 

1 center line of the road.

2 As you've been by the property,

3 I think you can see as we continue to move that

4 further back, it gets into the landscaping; which

5 in effect is creating the same issue that

6 Discount Tire has right now, with their wall

7 sign; in that, the mature landscaping on either

8 side of them make it very difficult to see into

9 their property. And I know we had spoken to it

10 to some degree last time.

11 In addition with me this

12 evening, is Mr. Rick Powers, who is the store

13 manager of that facility, and would be available

14 to address any concerns that you might have, too.

15 He's the one that sees every day that -- how many

16 of their customers have difficulty identifying

17 where there store actually is. And so this is a

18 real critical piece to Discount Tire.

19 I would also like the Board to

20 consider, too, that they're actually removing 46

21 square feet of wall signs. And the proposed

22 monument sign -- even though it's measured 40

23 square feet -- is actually only 28 square feet of

24 actual sign area. So they're about -- it's

9

 

 

1 almost a 40 percent reduction in there total

2 signable area, that they're voluntarily removing

3 --

4 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay.

5 MR. DETERS: -- to have this.

6 Thank you.

7 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Is

8 it there anyone at audience

9 that wishes to make comment

10 in regards to this sign?

11 Sir, please come down.

12 MR. POWERS: Good evening.

13 Thanks for hearing me for just a

14 couple minutes. I'm Rick Powers. I am Rick

15 Powers. I am the manager at the store that's in

16 question on Grand River there. Hopefully all of

17 you'll come and visit me at one time or another

18 real soon, I hope.

19 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Mr.

20 Powers, I need to interrupt

21 for one second.

22 MR. POWERS: Sure.

23 MEMBER GRONACHAN: You

24 need to be sworn in by our

10

 

 

1 secretary, please. Please

2 raise your right hand.

3 MEMBER BAUER: Do you solemnly

4 swear or affirm to tell the truth regarding case,

5 05-022 -- 05-002?

6 MR. POWERS: Yes.

7 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Ok

8 ay. You may proceed.

9 MR. POWERS: As Paul already

10 explained to you, we have difficulty with this

11 sign on the side of the building being visible;

12 and because we sit back off the road, the

13 building, itself, when the trees and stuff are

14 all in full-bloom, is still difficult to even

15 see.

16 We get phone calls pretty

17 regular -- I'd say at least one a day -- where

18 people are asking where are you at. And when we

19 get into it, we find out that they've just driven

20 right by us; and they have to turn around and

21 come back.

22 And it's simply -- most of the

23 time, is because they're looking for us and

24 they're expecting something out near the road and

11

 

 

1 it's not there; so they don't see deeper into the

2 landscape there. So what we are proposing here

3 is to trade off the signage on the side of the

4 building, which is almost worthless now, and get

5 something down by the road a little closer where

6 people can see it.

7 I have had even customers who

8 are rather regular customers come in and make the

9 same comment, you know, I drove right by. I

10 wasn't paying attention. I forgot where you were

11 at, because we are not real visible to the road

12 frontage where we are at right now.

13 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Th

14 ank you.

15 Is there anyone else in the

16 audience that wishes to make comment?

17 Seeing none, there were 21

18 Notices mailed, no approvals; no objections.

19 Building Department?

20 MR. SAVEN: No comment.

21 MR. AMOLSCH: No comment.

22 MEMBER GRONACHAN:

23 Member Fischer?

24 MEMBER FISCHER: Mr. Deters, can

12

 

 

1 you tell me in the previous sign that we had, do

2 you remember what the setback was last month on

3 that sign or is it the same sign that we were

4 looking at?

5 MR. DETERS: It's the same sign.

6 MEMBER FISCHER: It is the same?

7 MR. DETERS: Yes.

8 MEMBER FISCHER: All right. I

9 think one of the Members had a large problem with

10 the wall sign still being there. The

11 Petitioner's gone along with our request; and

12 therefore, I would be willing to support this

13 Motion, do to sight identification, as well it's

14 going to be -- if anyone (unintelligible) I'd

15 like to make a Motion.

16 MEMBER BRENNAN: I second that

17 Motion.

18 MEMBER FISCHER: I'd like to make

19 a Motion in case 05-002 that we approve the

20 Petitioner's request, due to sight

21 identification; as well as the Petitioner has

22 established the proposed improvements will

23 increase public safety and welfare.

24 MEMBER BRENNAN: Second.

13

 

 

1 MEMBER GRONACHAN: It

2 's been moved at seconded.

3 Any further discussion?

4 MR. AMOLSCH: I'd require that

5 the wall sign be removed.

6 MEMBER FISCHER: With the

7 condition that the wall sign comes down.

8 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes.

9 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Th

10 ank you.

11 Mr. Gilliam?

12 MR. AMOLSCH: No.

13 MR. GILLIAM: That's

14 what I was going to say, too.

15 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Ok

16 ay.

17 It's been moved and seconded.

18 Any further discussion?

19 Seeing none, Gail, would you

20 please call the roll.

21 GAIL BACKUS: Member Fischer?

22 MEMBER FISCHER: Aye.

23 GAIL BACKUS: Member Brennan?

24 MEMBER BRENNAN: Aye.

14

 

 

1 GAIL BACKUS: Member Bauer?

2 MEMBER BAUER: Yes.

3 GAIL BACKUS: Member Gronachan?

4 MEMBER GRONACHAN:

5 Yes.

6 GAIL BACKUS: Member Sanghvi?

7 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes.

8 GAIL BACKUS: Motion passes five

9 to zero.

10 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Yo

11 ur variance has been granted.

12 Hope that helps you out.

13 MR. DETERS: I'm sure it will.

14 Thank you for your time.

15 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Go

16 od luck.

17

18 Okay. Calling Case Number

19 05-006, filed by Bill Thomas at Tony V's Sunroom

20 and Spas, for Elizabeth and Guy Wade for a

21 residence at 46654 Cidermill.

22 Mr. Thomas is requesting a one

23 foot rear yard setback variance for the

24 construction of a sunroom.

15

 

 

1 Good evening.

2 And you are?

3 MR. RANDALL: Robert Randall for

4 Tony V's Sunroom and Spas.

5 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. Would

6 you please raise your right hand and be sworn in

7 by our secretary.

8 MEMBER BAUER: Do you solemnly

9 swear or affirm to tell the truth regarding case,

10 05-006?

11 MR. RANDALL: Yes, sir.

12 MEMBER BAUER: Thank you.

13 MR. RANDALL: My pleasure.

14 Robert Randall with Tony V's

15 Sunroom and Spas, at 20330 Hall Road in Clinton

16 Township, Michigan. We are representing

17 Mr. and Mrs. Wade this evening for a conservative

18 12 foot by 21 foot patio-sunroom enclosure out

19 the back of the home.

20 Mr. and Mrs. Wade have been at

21 resident Novi community for over 15 years, and

22 wish to add a small enclosure addition off the

23 back of their home. Now, as you can see from the

24 mortgage survey applied in the package, they do

16

 

 

1 have an unusual shape to their lot; in which,

2 given just the nature of the landscape, how the

3 lot is -- you might say on the eastside, much

4 shorter than the westside property lines.

5 The one foot rear yard setback

6 is merely just to make sure that it compliments

7 the home and blends in with the home as best as

8 possible; to accommodate the things that they're

9 looking to do inside of the room. It's going to

10 be a seasonal enclosure; not to be used in a --

11 as we call it, a year-round addition. There is

12 no heating and cooling going into the room.

13 We've looked at the best

14 possible location on the home. The other -- the

15 westside of the home is a full dining room off of

16 that area; so this is really the best possible

17 location off of the living room, for the best

18 traffic patterns in the home and safety for the

19 family within there.

20 Outside of that, we feel that it

21 meets the neighborhood. I had support from one

22 neighbor; other neighbor on the other side of the

23 home, the home is vacant at this time; so you

24 may not have any letters of support from that

17

 

 

1 neighbor, as they are not presently at that home.

2 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Ok

3 ay.

4 Anything else.

5 MR. RANDALL: No, that's about

6 it.

7 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Is

8 there anyone at audience that

9 wishes to make comment in

10 regards to this case?

11 Seeing none, there were 212

12 Notices sent; two approvals -- the first approval

13 by Mr. and Mrs. Doug Ritchie at 46536 Cidermill;

14 and the second approval from Al and Sheila Roma

15 at 24760 Maple Street.

16 Building Department?

17 MR. SAVEN: Just to point out,

18 as this gentleman has indicated, this is an

19 unusual shaped lot from the eastside to the

20 westside.

21 Plus, to ask the question, in

22 regards to the enclosure, is it going to extend

23 beyond the existing deck as it is right now, or

24 is it going to be in line?

18

 

 

1 MR. RANDALL: No, it's in line.

2 We're building right on the existing deck that's

3 on the back of the home. We're doing some

4 reinforcement to it.

5 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay.

6 Board members?

7 Member Sanghvi?

8 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you very

9 much, Madam Chair.

10 This sounds like a very simple

11 straight forward situation; only a one foot

12 variance is needed.

13 And I am going be bold enough

14 and make a Motion that in the Case: 05-006, that

15 the Petitioner's request be granted, because of

16 unusual lot configuration.

17 MEMBER BAUER: Second.

18 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Ok

19 ay. It's been moved and

20 seconded several times.

21 Is there any further discussion

22 on the --

23 Seeing none, Gail would you

24 please call roll.

19

 

 

1 GAIL BACKUS: Member Sanghvi?

2 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes.

3 GAIL BACKUS: Member Bauer?

4 MEMBER BAUER: Yes.

5 GAIL BACKUS: Member Brennan?

6 MEMBER BRENNAN: Yes.

7 GAIL BACKUS: Member Gronachan?

8 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Yes.

9 GAIL BACKUS: And, Member

10 Fischer?

11 MEMBER FISCHER: Aye.

12 GAIL BACKUS: Motion passes five

13 to zero?

14 MR. RANDALL: Thank you.

15 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Yo

16 ur variance has been granted.

17 You're all set.

18 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Ok

19 ay. Let's call our next

20 Case: 05-007 -- sorry about

21 that delay -- Tim Schaefer of

22 Galaxy Sign and Hoisting for

23 Party America at 43741 Oaks

24 Drive.

20

 

 

1 Mr. Schaefer of Galaxy Sign is

2 requesting one sign variance to allow a logo in

3 the front -- in the storefront signage.

4 Good evening.

5 And you are?

6 MR. SCHAEFER: Tim Schaefer.

7 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Would you

8 please raise your right hand and be sworn in by

9 our secretary.

10 MEMBER BAUER: Do you solemnly

11 swear or affirm to tell the truth regarding Case

12 05-007?

13 MR. SCHAEFER: Yes, I do.

14 MEMBER BAUER: Thank you.

15 MEMBER GRONACHAN: You

16 may proceed.

17 MR. SCHAEFER: We're asking for

18 a logo to be allowed for the Party America

19 signage. The logo is nine square feet roughly in

20 size, and is well-contained within the squared

21 signable area.

22 Back in '81 when this -- when

23 the original variance was requested, there was a

24 lot of little storefronts in the shopping center;

21

 

 

1 a lot of very small ones. With the times, the

2 way the times have changed, now there's roughly

3 five or six big stores in the shopping center.

4 I cannot see where the logo

5 would hinder the make up of the storefront.

6 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Ok

7 ay.

8 Anything else.

9 MR. SCHAEFER: Nope, that's it.

10 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Th

11 ank you.

12 Is there anyone in the audience

13 that wishes to make comment in regards to this

14 case?

15 Seeing none, there were 23

16 notices sent; one approval from ABC Warehouse; no

17 objections. We are in same retail complex. We

18 have no problem with the variance.

19 Building Department?

20 MR. SAVEN: No comment.

21 MR. AMOLSCH: Actually, just to

22 clarify what's before the Board is not the square

23 footage, dimensional variance. The problem was

24 the original blanket variance for the shopping

22

 

 

1 center -- part of the agreement was that no logos

2 would be included in any signage at the center.

3 So just to clarify that.

4 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Ok

5 ay, thank you.

6 Board members?

7 Member Fischer?

8 MEMBER FISCHER: This is for the

9 Building Department.

10 So the square footage is in

11 conformity, so it would be allowed?

12 MR. AMOLSCH: For that center,

13 there was a blanket for dimensional, also; it

14 goes with the property. The issue is not the

15 size. In fact, the logo is not allowed under

16 846 D. 1 under the original variance.

17 MEMBER FISCHER: Right.

18 If the Board hadn't made that

19 decision a condition back then, would logos be

20 allowed in those signs?

21 MR. AMOLSCH: Yes, it would.

22 MEMBER FISCHER: All right.

23 Given the fact a Board decision

24 24 years ago, plus years ago, I don't think that

23

 

 

1 decision pretty much fits the West Oaks area,

2 anymore. It doesn't fit the market in Novi, so I

3 would be willing to support this Petitioner.

4 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Ok

5 ay.

6 Thank you.

7 Member Bauer?

8 MEMBER BAUER: I was around when

9 this was put together.

10 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Sh

11 all I move now?

12 MEMBER BAUER: This was agreed

13 to by the owner. And I think if we go ahead and

14 approve this, we are going to have many, many

15 more; not only at this location, but across the

16 street and anywhere else that comes up. And I

17 certainly could not afford -- I certainly could

18 not approve of the requested sign, because it is,

19 at this point, the same as everybody else.

20 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Me

21 mber Brennan.

22 MEMBER BRENNAN: Just for

23 clarification. What we're talking about is the

24 balloons.

24

 

 

1 MR. AMOLSCH: Correct.

2 MEMBER BRENNAN: Okay. Just for

3 anybody watching at home. This company --

4 apparently this company sells supplies for having

5 parties, right?

6 MR. SCHAEFER: Yes. They bought

7 the Great Party, and they've taken over the Great

8 Party brand all over the United States.

9 MEMBER BRENNAN: And

10 specifically, with shopping center, from 1981,

11 there was some -- a line item in there that said

12 that while signs are signs, you can't have any

13 logos. Although, I'm thinking now of -- over at

14 10 and Beck, Caribou Coffee and some of these

15 others have logos incorporated in their signs.

16 I wonder is it fair that we say

17 no to a new start-up business in West Oaks and

18 tie them to a decision made in 1981, when we have

19 that same capability in other strip malls?

20 That's the only thing that gets

21 me, Jerry. I don't know that it would be fair to

22 deny a logo to this party; when we've got logos

23 incorporated in signs all over the City, so --

24 MEMBER BAUER: Where is the one

25

 

 

1 for Caribou?

2 MEMBER BRENNAN: Caribou Coffee

3 is right at 10 mile --

4 MEMBER BAUER: Yeah, where it is?

5 MEMBER BRENNAN: What's the

6 logo? They've got that Caribou thing.

7 MR. SCHAEFER: Starbuck's Coffee,

8 also, which is in the --

9 MEMBER BRENNAN: That was a

10 Caribou, by the way.

11 MEMBER SANGHVI: I am so glad

12 you clarified that.

13 MEMBER GRONACHAN: You don't have

14 to call 911. It was not a seizure.

15 MEMBER BRENNAN: So anyways, the

16 point is that there are logos incorporated into

17 signs elsewhere. I don't know how we can deny

18 this Petitioner, given that position elsewhere in

19 the City.

20 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Ok

21 ay.

22 Member Bauer?

23 MEMBER BAUER: I would suggest

24 that if this is approved that it be turned over

26

 

 

1 to the proper people to have this

2 (unintelligible.)

3 MEMBER GRONACHAN:

4 Update.

5 MEMBER BAUER: All right, sir?

6 MR. SAVEN: Absolutely.

7 That's how the Motion as made

8 back then. This gentleman is here for that

9 particular case and that case only. He's not

10 here for the rest of the cases.

11 MR. SCHAEFER: And I'll take

12 everybody's pay for doing everybody else's, as

13 well.

14 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Me

15 mber Sanghvi?

16 MEMBER SANGHVI: Question. The

17 mock up you have up is going to replace the

18 current sign?

19 MR. SCHAEFER: Oh, boy. I'm

20 sorry? Excuse me?

21 MEMBER SANGHVI: The mock-up you

22 have got up there --

23 MR. SCHAEFER: Yes.

24 MEMBER SANGHVI: -- is going to

27

 

 

1 replace the current sign?

2 MR. SCHAEFER: Yes. It's not

3 placed in the correct spot, but that's --

4 MEMBER SANGHVI: I know, but

5 it's going to replace the present sign, right?

6 MR. SCHAEFER: Yes.

7 MEMBER SANGHVI: Okay. I have

8 no problem with it, as we all discussed earlier,

9 and times have changed and things have change in

10 Novi also (unintelligible.) And 30 years, even

11 more changes are taking place, and I have no

12 hesitation in supporting his application.

13 And if I may make a Motion that

14 in Case Number: 05-007, the Petitioner's request

15 be granted.

16 MEMBER BRENNAN: For this

17 Petitioner only?

18 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes, this

19 Petitioner only.

20 MEMBER FISCHER: Second.

21 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Di

22 scussion on Motion? Can I

23 get a word in? I want -- I

24 agree with Member Bauer, in

28

 

 

1 that there was a reason why

2 the members 20 years ago, or

3 even 30 years ago, for

4 whatever length of time, that

5 they put this on there; and I

6 just want to be careful that

7 no one thinks that just

8 because we are doing this for

9 this particular business --

10 this business has -- this is

11 their patten, correct?

12 MR. SCHAEFER: Yes.

13 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Th

14 is is their patten logo,

15 patten sign.

16 MR. SCHAEFER: Right. I have

17 the paperwork, also.

18 MEMBER GRONACHAN: We

19 have got it in your packet,

20 but I want it -- I want it

21 on the record.

22 MR. SCHAEFER: Okay.

23 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. I'm

24 trying to make a point here, in terms of this the

29

 

 

1 patten sign. And that this is just not excess

2 decoration or flooding up the front of the

3 building with logo signs.

4 So that's why I would be able to

5 support it, and I wanted to clarify that.

6 Member Bauer, you had something

7 else to add?

8 MEMBER BAUER: Yeah. This is

9 different zoning than where Caribou is. And I

10 think this was set-up so that everyone can have

11 the same kind of sign; not that one has better

12 than the other. And I think that's reason why it

13 was put together that way.

14 So I will not approve it, but go

15 ahead.

16 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Th

17 ank you.

18 Gail, will you please call the

19 roll.

20 GAIL BACKUS: Member Sanghvi?

21 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes.

22 GAIL BACKUS: Member Brennan?

23 MEMBER BRENNAN: Yes.

24 GAIL BACKUS: Member Bauer?

30

 

 

1 MEMBER BAUER: No.

2 GAIL BACKUS: Member Gronachan?

3 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Yes.

4 GAIL BACKUS: Member Fischer?

5 MEMBER FISCHER? Aye.

6 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Sir, your

7 variance request has been approved.

8 MR. SCHAEFER: Thank you.

9 MEMBER GRONACHAN: And

10 it's for this business only.

11 MR. SCHAEFER: Thank you very

12 much.

13 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Th

14 ank you.

15 Good luck to you.

16

17 Okay. Our next case would be

18 05-008, filed by Don and Dusta Bojovic at 185

19 Maudlin. Mr. and Mrs. Bojovic are requesting

20 four variances for the construction of a new home

21 located at that above address.

22 Good evening.

23 And you are?

24 MRS. BOJOVIC: I am Dusta

31

 

 

1 Bojovic. I brought my husband down with me, too.

2 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Mr. Bojovic

3 is here?

4 MRS. BOJOVIC: Yes, he is.

5 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Is

6 he going to speak on behalf,

7 as well?

8 MRS. BOJOVIC: We'll try and do

9 our best, both of us, but he would rather me.

10 MEMBER GRONACHAN: He

11 needs to come down and be

12 sworn in, is my point.

13 MRS. BOJOVIC: Okay.

14 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Thank you.

15 Would you raise your right hand

16 and be sworn in by our secretary.

17 MEMBER BAUER: Do you solemnly

18 swear or affirm to tell the truth regarding case

19 05-008?

20 MRS. BOJOVIC: I do.

21 MR. BOJOVIC: I do.

22 MEMBER BAUER: Thank you.

23 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Th

24 ank you.

32

 

 

1 You may proceed.

2 We purchased this lot, combined

3 lots 71 and 72 -- 70 and 71, at 185 Maudlin Road,

4 and we would like to put a small house in there.

5 And the variance we're asking to be changed -- it

6 is quite a big square footage, but we found the

7 house that we picked to put there, it would kind

8 of fit the area around there; which we've

9 watching for a few years.

10 (Unintelligible) improving and

11 new construction and additions, and so we would

12 like that change, if it's possible.

13 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Ok

14 ay.

15 MRS. BOJOVIC: I really never

16 did this (unintelligible.)

17 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Th

18 at's okay.

19 We understand completely.

20 Just for clarification, this is

21 a brand new home, correct?

22 MRS. BOJOVIC: Yes, it is.

23 MEMBER GRONACHAN: And

24 these are the four variances

33

 

 

1 that you're requesting.

2 MRS. BOJOVIC: Yes.

3 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Ok

4 ay.

5 Is there anyone from the

6 audience that wishes to make comment in regards

7 to this case?

8 Seeing none, there were 36

9 notices mailed; two objections.

10 Board members bear with me

11 (unintelligible) I will read the objection.

12 When someone wanted to build on

13 this lot, that they had to be creative, and only

14 use two variances. Not only is this close to the

15 lot line, lack the square footage; it is

16 irregular in shape.

17 Anyone who drives down Maudlin,

18 especially on the weekend, would also notice a

19 parking problem. The road, in itself, is a

20 little more than a driveway in front of the lot,

21 with no room for parking on the street.

22 The lot was picked up for -- I'm

23 sorry I can read that -- because it didn't meet

24 building requirements. And that is by Richard

34

 

 

1 J-o-s-e-p-h -- Josephson, at 163 Maudlin. He

2 wrote in pencil, so it's very difficult.

3 The next objection is written by

4 Lawrence Wesson at 305 Maudlin.

5 Allegedly, Mr. Don Bojovic is a

6 builder located in the City of Sterling Heights

7 that accepted the property in question as payment

8 for performed by a resident from a client that

9 failed to (unintelligible.) Should this

10 allegation prove to be true, then I would object

11 to the this variance; as Mr. and Mrs. Bojovic

12 would not be residing homeowners; and therefore,

13 in my opinion would not suffer any hardship

14 concerning the denial of a variance to construct

15 a structure on non-conforming land.

16 Building Department?

17 MR. SAVEN: What's before you is

18 this irregular piece of property. From a side

19 yard setback, the side yard setbacks are met for

20 this property under the current. What you're

21 basically looking at is, certainly, the front

22 yard and the rear yard setbacks, which are in

23 need of a extenuating variance for that

24 particular property.

35

 

 

1 I'd also point out that in non

2 -conforming lots and the uses on that particular

3 property, you need to have at less 60 foot of

4 frontage in the front and the rear of the,

5 property, okay. In this particular case, based

6 upon the rear being that which is almost opposite

7 the front yard, you'll see that the rear yard is

8 in need of a variance, also.

9 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Ok

10 ay.

11 Board members?

12 Member Bauer?

13 MEMBER BAUER: (unintelligible.)

14 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Oh, Don needs

15 to clarify this.

16 Maple Wood is the old --

17 MR. SAVEN: Maple Wood is --

18 Maudlin -- Maple's the old Maudlin.

19 MEMBER BAUER: Okay.

20 MEMBER GRONACHAN: (Interposing.)

21 (Unintelligible.)

22 Okay. Member Brennan?

23 MEMBER BRENNAN: Well,

24 certainly, there's no way that you're going to

36

 

 

1 meet the front yard setback and the rear yard

2 setback, and build a house. They're already

3 dealing with a very narrow home of 24 feet. I

4 don't know that we've got anything less than that

5 on some of these small lots in the City.

6 The fact that they've pushed it

7 back toward the back of lot -- and I'm sorry I

8 hardly ever turn that off -- the fact they pushed

9 it back towards the back the lot, is preferred,

10 because that does open more space along Maudlin

11 for parking I didn't have any particular issue

12 with the last two items, the rear lot width,

13 because that's just one -- that's last to mention

14 at the rear of the lot. It widens up and meets

15 that 60 foot throughout the rest of property.

16 And the square footage is -- as

17 far as I'm concerned, close enough. So we're

18 dealing with the front and rear lot setbacks.

19 It's a house that should meet new adjoining

20 residence. I don't know how you'd build anything

21 with less variance request.

22 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Mr

23 s. Bojovic, I have a question

24 for you. Where is the

37

 

 

1 driveway going to be? Are

2 you going to have a driveway?

3 MRS. BOJOVIC: It's going to

4 be -- he says it's going to be on the side, on

5 lot 71.

6 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Ok

7 ay. So there will not be any

8 parking on the street. It

9 will be out of the

10 right-of-way. The driveway

11 is going --

12 MRS. BOJOVIC: Well, first, there

13 is no place there to park on the street, because

14 it's like a curve; and there's no place to park

15 on the street. Because that's what I asked, the

16 first thing.

17 And one thing, just to clarify,

18 he is not a builder. Whatever neighbor said

19 that, he thought we got it because of the taxes.

20 We didn't get it from the City, just to pay the

21 taxes. We purchased the lot, and he is not a

22 builder.

23 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Ok

24 ay. So you are -- I wanted

38

 

 

1 to establish, because of that

2 concern, that you are going

3 to have a driveway.

4 MRS. BOJOVIC: Yes, it is.

5 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay.

6 MRS. BOJOVIC: And there is

7 enough space for a driveway.

8 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay.

9 So long as that's on the record,

10 I can support this, as well, if anyone has a

11 Motion.

12 MEMBER BRENNAN: One other

13 thing?

14 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Yes, Member

15 Brennan --

16 Member Sanghvi, go ahead.

17 MEMBER SANGHVI: I have a couple

18 of questions.

19 What is the size of the lot?

20 MR. BOJOVIC: It's area in the

21 front 61 one side, 114 the other side.

22 MEMBER SANGHVI: How do you --

23 MRS. BOJOVIC: It's kind of a

24 funny lot.

39

 

 

1 MEMBER SANGHVI: What is the

2 square footage of the house you are putting on

3 it?

4 MR. BOJOVIC: It's 24 by 22. It's

5 a 2000 square foot house, two story house.

6 MEMBER SANGHVI: You're going to

7 have two floors, right?

8 MR. BOJOVIC: Yeah.

9 MEMBER SANGHVI: So what's the

10 approximate square footage of the house?

11 MR. BOJOVIC: 2000.

12 MEMBER SANGHVI: Okay.

13 Thank you.

14 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Th

15 at's it?

16 Member Brennan, did you have

17 question?

18 MEMBER BRENNAN: Just a quick

19 question.

20 Do you intend to live in the

21 house?

22 MR. BOJOVIC: Yes.

23 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Ok

24 ay.

40

 

 

1 MEMBER SANGHVI: Well, may I

2 make a Motion?

3 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Ye

4 s, you may.

5 MEMBER GRONACHAN: That in Case

6 Number: 05-008, we grant the variances requested

7 by the Applicant, because of the lot

8 configuration.

9 MEMBER BRENNAN: Support.

10 MEMBER GRONACHAN: It

11 's been moved and seconded.

12 Is there any further discussion

13 on the Motion?

14 Seeing none, Gail, would you

15 please call the roll?

16 GAIL BACKUS: Member Sanghvi?

17 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes.

18 GAIL BACKUS: Member Brennan?

19 MEMBER BRENNAN: Yes.

20 GAIL BACKUS: Member Bauer?

21 MEMBER BAUER: Yes.

22 GAIL BACKUS: Member Gronachan?

23 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Yes.

24 GAIL BACKUS: And, Member

41

 

 

1 Fischer?

2 MEMBER FISCHER: Aye.

3 GAIL BACKUS: Motion passes five

4 to zero.

5 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Your variances

6 have been granted. Please see the Building

7 Department.

8 MRS. BOJOVIC: Thank you.

9 MR. BOJOVIC: Thank you.

10 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Thank you and

11 Good luck.

12

13 We will now call Case Number

14 05-009, filed by David Love of Novi Meadowbrook,

15 L.P, for Meadowbrook Townhomes at 29444 Weston

16 Drive. Mr. Love of Novi Meadowbrook is

17 requesting one sign variance, to erect an

18 additional ground sign for the second phase of

19 the development.

20 Good evening.

21 And you are?

22 MR. LOVE: I'm David Love.

23 MEMBER GRONACHAN: All

24 right. Would you please

42

 

 

1 raise your right hand to be

2 sworn in by our secretary.

3 MEMBER BAUER: Do you solemnly

4 swear or affirm to tell the truth regarding case,

5 05-009?

6 MR. LOVE: I do.

7 MEMBER BAUER: Thank you, sir.

8 MEMBER GRONACHAN: You may

9 proceed.

10 MR. LOVE: The deal with the

11 development there, we have 1300 foot of frontage

12 along 13 Mile and a 1,000 feet or so along

13 Meadowbrook; yet, there -- the only entrances

14 into the development coming in off of Hemmingway

15 Drive and Brownstone -- which are on the other

16 two sides of it.

17 We do have a concent judgement

18 previously allowed the signs to be at the corner

19 of Brownstone and Meadowbrook; and at Hemmingway

20 and 13 Mile, but there is nothing that faces that

21 direction for any kind of westbound traffic on 13

22 Mile. And this sign sits on our property, which

23 is -- it allows us that exposure for the

24 westbound 13 Mile traffic.

43

 

 

1 We are trying to sell units in

2 the second phase here. It's just important to

3 get as much exposure as we can.

4 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay.

5 Anything else?

6 MR. LOVE: And sign's been

7 there for a year.

8 MEMBER GRONACHAN: The

9 current sign has already been

10 there, the one that you're

11 requesting?

12 MR. LOVE: I was here a year

13 ago.

14 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Ok

15 ay. Thank you.

16 Is there anyone in the audience

17 that wishes to make comment in regards to this

18 case?

19 Seeing none, there were 12

20 notices mailed; no approvals, no objections.

21 Building Department?

22 MR. AMOLSCH: I just want to

23 clarify, that's not a new sign request. It's to

24 maintain the sign that was approved by the Board

44

 

 

1 last year.

2 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Ok

3 ay. Thank you.

4 Member Brennan?

5 MEMBER BRENNAN: Could you

6 estimate at what percentage sale-out or sold

7 properties are in this phase?

8 MR. LOVE: The first phase sold

9 out 101 units; 77 in the second phase, which is

10 about a third or 35 percent are gone.

11 MEMBER BRENNAN: Okay. What do

12 you think you need, another year?

13 MR. LOVE: It would be great if

14 that were, but probably two years?

15 MEMBER BRENNAN: Pardon?

16 MR. LOVE: Probably two years.

17 I believe we sold something like five buildings

18 and 25 units last year.

19 MEMBER BRENNAN: And if you kept

20 that pace for this next year, you'd be somewhere

21 around 50/60 percent?

22 MR. LOVE: Yes. Somewhere

23 around 70 percent.

24 MEMBER BRENNAN: As a rule, we

45

 

 

1 allow these advertising signs until we get close

2 to build-out or sale out in the 90 percent range.

3 So I guess I'm compelled to support to some

4 extension. We can talk about the duration.

5 Maybe a happy medium is year and a half.

6 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Me

7 mber Bauer?

8 MEMBER BAUER: Is this sign on

9 your property?

10 MR. LOVE: Yes, it is.

11 MEMBER BAUER: The other one,

12 too?

13 MR. LOVE: All of the them are.

14 MEMBER BAUER: All of them are.

15 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Me

16 mber Fischer?

17 MEMBER FISCHER: I was just

18 going along with Member Brennan. I would like to

19 here a Motion from him, and I would be willing to

20 support it, probably up to a year half, a happy

21 medium between the Board and the Petitioner; and

22 that sounds good to me.

23 MEMBER BRENNAN: With respect to

24 Case 05-009, I'd move that the Petitioner's

46

 

 

1 request for an extension of the sign be granted

2 for the period of 18 months from tonight for the

3 purpose of selling out the development.

4 MEMBER FISCHER: Second.

5 MEMBER GRONACHAN: It

6 's been moved at seconded.

7 Is there any further discussion

8 on Motion?

9 Seeing none, Gail, would you

10 please call the roll.

11 GAIL BACKUS: Member Brennan?

12 MEMBER BRENNAN: Yes.

13 GAIL BACKUS: Member Fischer?

14 MEMBER FISCHER: Aye.

15 GAIL BACKUS: Member Bauer?

16 MEMBER BAUER: Yes.

17 GAIL BACKUS: Member Gronachan?

18 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Yes.

19 GAIL BACKUS: And, Member

20 Sanghvi?

21 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes.

22 GAIL BACKUS: Motion passes five

23 to zero.

24 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Th

47

 

 

1 ank you.

2 Your variance as been granted.

3 MR. LOVE: Thank you.

4 MEMBER GRONACHAN: See you in 18

5 months.

6 Good luck.

7 MR. LOVE: Thanks.

8

9 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Ok

10 ay. Our next Case is 05-012,

11 filed by Mary Czarnecki of

12 Northstar Signs, for Cushman

13 and Wakefield, at 41441 and

14 41651 West 11 Mile.

15 Is Ms. Czarnecki here?

16 MEMBER BRENNAN: Madam Chair?

17 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Member

18 Brennan?

19 MEMBER BRENNAN: I would

20 recommend that we table this case until the end

21 of the meeting; and if they aren't here, we'll

22 deal with it then.

23 MEMBER BAUER: Yep.

24 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Ok

48

 

 

1 ay.

2

3 Case Number: 05-013, filed by

4 Richard Kiekens for a residence at 29072 Eastman

5 Trail. Mr. Kiekens is requesting a three percent

6 lot coverage variance, for the construction of a

7 screen room to be located on the existing deck,

8 located at the rear of the home at the above

9 address.

10 And you are?

11 MR. KIEKENS: Richard Kiekens.

12 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Ok

13 ay. Would you please

14 swear -- would you please

15 raise your right hand and be

16 sworn in. I was thinking of

17 the deck, the sun, you know,

18 and I got tongue-tied, sorry.

19 MEMBER BAUER: Do you solemnly

20 swear or affirm to tell the truth regarding Case,

21 05-013?

22 MR. KIEKENS: Yes, I do.

23 MEMBER BAUER: Thank you, sir.

24 MR. KIEKENS: And hopefully being

49

 

 

1 case 013, 13, doesn't indicate anything here.

2 MEMBER SANGHVI: It's lucky.

3 It's a very lucky number.

4 MR. KIEKENS: Hopefully.

5 Again, my name is Richard

6 Kiekens. I'm here representing he homeowner, a

7 Mrs. Maureen Kegg. We are seeking a variance to

8 Article 24, which allows for a 25 percent lot

9 coverage for covered or roofed portions of the

10 building. We are seeking to add a screen room

11 that will take the total coverage of the lot to

12 approximately 28 percent.

13 Without totally reiterating

14 everything that I have had here -- I'm sure

15 you've reviewed -- the current home on this site

16 is right at or maybe a little above the Article

17 that's allowed us already. This allows very

18 little legal room or actually none, for the

19 homeowner to do any kind of expansion to the

20 exterior.

21 This happens to be a elderly

22 lady that would like to enjoy the out of doors

23 without being subject to sunburn and mosquitos

24 and the diseases that come along with that.

50

 

 

1 She's very concerned about that. She has

2 requested us to build a screen room. And I've

3 got to admit, I was a little surprised to see

4 that the lot was already built to this capacity.

5 Hence, this brings me before you seeking this

6 variance.

7 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Ok

8 ay. Thank you.

9 Is there anyone in the audience

10 that wishes to make comment in regards to this

11 case.

12 Sir, would you please come on

13 down.

14 Good evening.

15 MR. FITZGERALD: My name is

16 Dennis Fitzgerald. I live at 29084 Eastman

17 Trail, I think a couple doors down from my

18 neighbor.

19 I have absolutely no problem

20 with what they're trying to do. In fact, I hope

21 when it's on there and it's raining, I can come

22 down and have a cup of coffee. The house does

23 back up to Meadowbrook Road, so there would be no

24 other homes that would be able to see what she's

51

 

 

1 done, or what she's trying to do.

2 And I don't think the neighbors

3 on either side are going to object. I'm

4 certainly as close as any other neighbor, and I

5 think that's neighborly thing to do; let them hae

6 the shade that they want.

7 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Ok

8 ay.

9 MR. FRITZGERALD: Thank you.

10 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Thank you.

11 MR. KIEKENS: I would like to

12 add that I did speak to the neighbor on the other

13 side --

14 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Hold on a

15 second.

16 Is there anyone else in the

17 audience that wishes to make comment?

18 Let's just go with what we've

19 got here.

20 There were 40 notices sent; two

21 approvals -- one approval by Daniel Kumlowski,

22 at 41490 Proridge. It's an approval, and David

23 Jarrett at 29121 Eastman Trail.

24 I'm sorry go ahead. You spoke

52

 

 

1 to --

2 MR. KIEKENS: The neighbor right

3 next door that actually hadn't moved in -- I do

4 little bit of handy man service, as well, and

5 actually hung some fixtures and stuff for this

6 lady, but she hasn't actually moved in, maybe

7 isn't receiving mail -- but she, too, verbally

8 approved that this could be done, and actually

9 thought she might like the same thing, once it

10 was done.

11 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. Thank

12 you.

13 Building Department?

14 MR. SAVEN: Just to point out

15 that I believe this is on the exciting deck?

16 MR. KIEKENS: Yes.

17 MR. SAVEN: It doesn't exceed or

18 go beyond that particular point?

19 MR. KIEKENS: No.

20 MR. SAVEN: Thank you.

21 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Board

22 Members?

23 Member Brennan?

24 MEMBER BRENNAN: Well, similar to

53

 

 

1 a similar case earlier tonight with an existing

2 deck, and putting a like building up. I'd

3 note -- I think you may have already said that

4 you have a condominium association approval.

5 And just for giggles, while it

6 may be surprising to you that the builder's build

7 to what is allowed, when you're sitting here, you

8 hear it every month. Believe me, if they can

9 build 29.3 percent, they will build a house 29.3

10 percent. And then anything else over and above

11 comes before us.

12 With that said, I don't have any

13 problem with this. And if there's sufficient

14 nodding, I'll continue on.

15 With respect to Case: 05-013, I

16 would move that the Petitioner's request be

17 approved for the purpose of enjoying the outdoor

18 elements, without getting carried away by Novi

19 mosquitos.

20 MEMBER SANGHVI: Second.

21 MEMBER GRONACHAN: It's been

22 moved and seconded.

23 Is there any further discussion

24 on the Motion?

54

 

 

1 MEMBER FISCHER: I would also

2 like to point out, as well as enjoying the

3 outdoors, but the health issues of the applicant,

4 as well. That's a big thing, as well.

5 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Ok

6 ay.

7 Any further discussion?

8 Gail, would you please call the

9 roll.

10 GAIL BACKUS: Member Brennan?

11 MEMBER BRENNAN: Yes.

12 GAIL BACKUS: Member Sanghvi?

13 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes.

14 GAIL BACKUS: Member Bauer?

15 MEMBER BAUER: Yes.

16 GAIL BACKUS: Member Gronachan?

17 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Yes.

18 GAIL BACKUS: Member Fischer?

19 MEMBER FISCHER: Aye.

20 GAIL BACKUS: Motion passes five

21 to zero.

22 MEMBER GRONACHAN: You can tell

23 your client that she gets her variance, and make

24 sure that she thanks Mr. Fitzgerald for coming

55

 

 

1 out this evening on this horrible winter night,

2 just to show support. I think she does owe him

3 at least, brunch.

4 MR. KIEKENS: We'll do.

5 Absolutely.

6 Thank you very much.

7 MEMBER GRONACHAN: And

8 Mr. Fitzgerald, gets a gold star of the day for

9 (unintelligible.)

10

11 Okay. Our next Case is 05-014,

12 filed by Colliers International for property

13 located at 41200 and 41218 Bridge street. Robert

14 Hughes of Colliers International is requesting

15 two sign variances to erect a temporary real

16 estate sign located at the above address.

17 And you are?

18 MR. HUGHES: Rob Hughes of

19 Collier International.

20 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Would you

21 please raise your right hand and be sworn in by

22 our secretary.

23 MEMBER BAUER: Do you solemnly

24 swear or affirm to tell the truth regarding Case:

56

 

 

1 05-014?

2 MR. HUGHES: I do.

3 MEMBER GRONACHAN: You may

4 proceed.

5 MR. HUGHES: The variance is a

6 temporary sign variance, to help assist with the

7 marketing of the leasing of this property. We

8 were given a variance about two years ago. It

9 was a 12-month variance. We felt it was very

10 instrumental in the leasing of the property.

11 And now, times being as they

12 are, we do have vacancy again; more so than last

13 time. So we are seeking a variance once again in

14 hoping this time we'll have a 24-month period;

15 with which to complete the releasing of the

16 vacant space.

17 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Ok

18 ay.

19 Anything else.

20 MR. HUGHES: No.

21 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Is

22 there anyone in the audience

23 that wishes to make comment

24 in regards to this case?

57

 

 

1 Seeing none, there were 20 --

2 I'm sorry -- 16 notices sent; no objections, no

3 approvals.

4 Building Department?

5 MR. AMOLSCH: No comment.

6 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Board

7 Members?

8 Member Fischer?

9 MEMBER FISCHER: The last time

10 this sign was in front of us, is this the size

11 you used, as well.

12 MR. HUGHES: I believe it is,

13 but not the size that they used in the mockup --

14 but size that was -- I think I have a copy of the

15 old approval here, although I didn't look at it.

16 I believe it was a similarly sized sign.

17 MEMBER FISCHER: More often than

18 not I see Petitioners come before us asking for a

19 30, 36 square feet and whatnot, I think that this

20 is the minimum that this Petitioner can deal

21 with. Therefore -- and often they're asking for

22 eight feet in the air. This is one is asking for

23 seven.

24 Therefore, I'd like to be bold,

58

 

 

1 like my colleague down there, and make a Motion

2 that we approve the variance as requested, in

3 Case Number: 05-014, due to visibility and sight

4 I.D., minimal variance requested.

5 And for the time period of --

6 what were you looking for?

7 MR. HUGHES: 24 months.

8 MEMBER FISCHER: Are we allowed

9 to do 24 months?

10 24 months.

11 MEMBER SANGHVI: Second.

12 MEMBER GRONACHAN: It

13 's been moved and seconded.

14 Is there any further discussion?

15 Member Bauer?

16 MEMBER BAUER: The application

17 says 96 square feet. The last one you had was

18 48. It is now 24.

19 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Ok

20 ay. Advertised as 24.

21 MEMBER BAUER: Pardon?

22 MEMBER GRONACHAN: It's been

23 advertised as 24 square feet; is that correct?

24 MR. HUGHES: Yeah.

59

 

 

1 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Ok

2 ay.

3 MEMBER BRENNAN: Is that the

4 sign you want to put up, six by eight, six foot

5 by eight foot?

6 MR. HUGHES: Yeah.

7 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Not

8 the 96 square feet, as your

9 application indicates.

10 MEMBER FISCHER: Six times eight

11 is 48.

12 MR. HUGHES: The sign is a two

13 sided sign, so 24 -- so however they're -- I

14 don't know how you're measuring the sign area,

15 but it's as if there would be signage on both

16 sides of it, so that it's directionally visible.

17 MEMBER BAUER: It's not -- it

18 wasn't sent out to people the way

19 (unintelligible.) It says 24.

20 MR. HUGHES: Okay.

21 MEMBER BAUER: And you were

22 shooting for 48.

23 MR. AMOLSCH: The application,

24 it says six by four, 24 square feet, seven feet

60

 

 

1 high.

2 MEMBER BAUER: 96 square feet.

3 MR. AMOLSCH: (Unintelligible.)

4 Aside from that application, (unintelligible) six

5 by four; and it was advertised as 24 square feet,

6 and seven feet tall -- high.

7 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Yo

8 u're saying that it would be

9 96 square feet, though --

10 MEMBER BAUER: On both sides.

11 MEMBER GRONACHAN: -- on both

12 sides.

13 MR. HUGHES: No.

14 MEMBER GRONACHAN: 48

15 square feet.

16 Who said no?

17 MR. HUGHES: I did.

18 MEMBER GRONACHAN:

19 Okay.

20 MR. HUGHES: It would not be 96

21 feet on both sides.

22 MEMBER BAUER: No.

23 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Total.

24 MEMBER BAUER: It would be 48 and

61

 

 

1 48.

2 MEMBER GRONACHAN: But you're

3 not looking for a 48 square foot sign.

4 MR. HUGHES: No.

5 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. So --

6 MR. HUGHES: Well, what I was

7 looking -- I didn't fill out the application,

8 myself. I don't know how it was transfered to

9 what you have or on this sheet of paper. All I

10 did was put together the sign request in our

11 office.

12 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Ok

13 ay.

14 MR. HUGHES: And then that -- it

15 is just procedurally -- was transfered to the

16 application process, which is then denied and

17 then leads to my being before you here. So there

18 was a mistake, obviously, in the way that the

19 information was transfered from my initial sign

20 request to the application that was denied.

21 MEMBER GRONACHAN: So,

22 we need to readvertise this

23 sign, because it can't go the

24 way it is; if it's going to

62

 

 

1 be 48 square feet, right,

2 Don?

3 MR. SAVEN: I'm sorry.

4 MEMBER GRONACHAN: I know. I was

5 kind of stalling. I was going to start telling a

6 story in another minute to give you sometime.

7 But we've got 48 square feet,

8 and we advertised 24, so he can't --

9 MR. AMOLSCH: On a V-sign, sign

10 the sign post (unintelligible) the square footage

11 on one side. If it is out more than two feet out

12 you this way, then we take both sides as signs,

13 because they are, in effect, having a double

14 sign.

15 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Right.

16 MR. AMOLSCH: So he has to

17 maintain that two foot setback -- or from the

18 back of the sign, he can't be more than two

19 feet, otherwise we'll count it as two signs.

20 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Is

21 that something that you could

22 do?

23 MR. HUGHES: I can place that

24 request. I don't know how they construct them.

63

 

 

1 I don't know what the dimensions are at the

2 backside of the sign.

3 MEMBER GRONACHAN: I

4 think they need to go back to

5 the drawing board on this one

6 and get this cleared up.

7 MR. HUGHES: I'll resubmit the

8 request, and then I guess that means it's tabled

9 until the next meeting. I have to come become

10 before you?

11 MEMBER GRONACHAN: You

12 had a good time here tonight,

13 so I don't know what the

14 problem is.

15 MEMBER FISCHER: I withdraw my

16 --

17 MR. HUGHES: What is it --

18 MEMBER GRONACHAN: You

19 need to -- Member Fischer

20 needs to withdraw his Motion.

21 MEMBER FISCHER: I withdraw my

22 Motion, due to the fact that we have this sign

23 that is six by eight; however, the sign permit

24 says six by four; as well, we noticed it for six

64

 

 

1 by four. 24 square feet, according to what he

2 just said.

3 So therefore, I withdraw my

4 Motion. I would make a Motion that we table this

5 to the April meeting of the Zoning Board of

6 Appeals, with the condition that the Petitioner

7 will be at the beginning of the meeting.

8 MEMBER BAUER: And there will be

9 a new letter sent out.

10 MEMBER FISCHER: Fair enough.

11 MEMBER GRONACHAN: It

12 has to be readvertised.

13 MEMBER FISCHER: Right.

14 MR. HUGHES: Am I able to speak?

15 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Yes, go

16 ahead.

17 MR. HUGHES: Is the -- as it's

18 been applied for, sits before you today, is that

19 able to be approved; if I don't know request the

20 change?

21 MEMBER BAUER: No.

22 MR. HUGHES: Why is it not? If

23 the application and the Petitions and everything

24 were sent out predicated on six by four?

65

 

 

1 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Because it

2 doesn't add up. The application doesn't add up

3 with what's advertised; and we're not clear on

4 what kind of sign we're approving at this point.

5 So it needs to be clarified as exactly -- as Alan

6 described; if you want that two feet separation,

7 or is it going to be counted two signs.

8 So we need to be clarified -- we

9 went under one assumption, but it looks like

10 you're asking for a different kind of sign.

11 MR. HUGHES: Well, the

12 assumption you went by is a six by four, at 24

13 square feet, a one sided sign.

14 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Ye

15 s.

16 MR. HUGHES: So if I were to ask

17 for no change and went with that --

18 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Can we do

19 that?

20 MEMBER BAUER: No problem.

21 MEMBER FISCHER: Do you want me

22 to withdraw --

23 MEMBER BRENNAN: Can I -- Madam

24 Chair?

66

 

 

1 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Member

2 Brennan?

3 MEMBER BRENNAN: For his sake,

4 though, just so I understand it, if this is six

5 by four, 24 feet, and he's got the same thing on

6 the backside, we're not doing this. It's just

7 back to back. That's one sign.

8 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Right.

9 MR. AMOLSCH: Correct.

10 MEMBER BRENNAN: Okay. That --

11 we could approve that tonight, 24 square foot --

12 MR. HUGHES: I'll do that.

13 MEMBER BRENNAN: Like this.

14 MR. HUGHES: I gotcha.

15 MEMBER BRENNAN: Okay.

16 MR. HUGHES: Crystal clear.

17 MEMBER BRENNAN: With that said,

18 make a Motion.

19 MEMBER BAUER: Go ahead.

20 MEMBER FISCHER: Madam Chair, I

21 would like to withdraw my Motion to table this

22 case; and I would go back to my original Motion

23 in Case Number: 05-014 14, we approve the

24 Petitioner's request for a 24 square foot sign,

67

 

 

1 seven feet in height; taking this one, six by

2 eight, out of the equation; due to visibility,

3 site identification. And I believe this is the

4 minimum variance requested.

5 MEMBER BAUER: Second the

6 Motion.

7 MEMBER GRONACHAN: It

8 's been moved and seconded.

9 is there any further

10 discussion?

11 MR. AMOLSCH: Time limit?

12 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Time frame.

13 MEMBER FISCHER: One year.

14 MR. HUGHES: Not the 24 months

15 that was originally approved.

16 MEMBER GRONACHAN: In

17 the original, you said 24

18 months.

19 MEMBER FISCHER: The last

20 Petitioner asked for 24, we gave him 18. So

21 shall we compromise again or shall we go with 24?

22 Recommendations from the Board?

23 MEMBER BRENNAN: I'd recommended

24 18 months.

68

 

 

1 MEMBER FISCHER: For 18 months,

2 sorry, sir.

3 MR. HUGHES: That's all right.

4 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Ok

5 ay. Any --

6 Hello, Mr. Gilliam.

7 MR. GILLIAM: Good

8 evening, again.

9 Just to clarify the comments

10 that Member Brennan made, in talking with Alan,

11 it's my understanding that with the dimensions

12 that you've set forth at this point in time, this

13 sign could either be a two-faced sign, six by

14 four on each side.

15 If the Applicant wanted to have

16 a V-shaped sign, he could still do that, but the

17 separation at the wide-end of the V, could be no

18 more than two feet.

19 MR. HUGHES: I'm understanding

20 that.

21 MR. AMOLSCH: Correct.

22 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Thank you for

23 that clarification.

24 Is there any further discussion?

69

 

 

1 Seeing none, Gail would you

2 please call the roll.

3 GAIL BACKUS: Member Fischer?

4 MEMBER FISCHER: Aye.

5 GAIL BACKUS: Member Bauer?

6 MEMBER BAUER: Yes.

7 GAIL BACKUS: Member Brennan?

8 MEMBER BRENNAN: Yes.

9 GAIL BACKUS: Member Gronachan?

10 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Yes.

11 GAIL BACKUS: Member Sanghvi?

12 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes.

13 GAIL BACKUS: Motion passes 5 to

14 zero.

15 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Thank you,

16 your variance has finally been granted?

17 Good luck to you.

18 MR. HUGHES: Thank you.

19

20 MEMBER GRONACHAN: At this time,

21 the Board would entertain a Motion for a five

22 minute break.

23 And before I ask for approval on

24 that, are the Petitioners here for Case Number:

70

 

 

1 05-012? No? Mary Czarnecki? Still not shown.

2 Since that's the case, the Board

3 will take a five minute break, and come back and

4 see -- hear case 05-011.

5

6 (A brief recess was taken.)

7

8 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Ok

9 ay. I would like to, at this

10 time, call the ZBA meeting

11 back into order, and proceed

12 by calling Case: 05-011,

13 filed by Paul Knuth of

14 Ivanhoe Huntley Companies,

15 for Wellington Ridge

16 Condominiums, located at 12

17 Mile between Meadowbrook and

18 Novi Road.

19 We have -- you have with you --

20 I know one of you is probably an attorney.

21 MR. KNUTH: I'm Paul Knuth from

22 Ivanhoe Huntley Homes; and this is Alan Greene

23 from Dykema-Gossett.

24 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. And the

71

 

 

1 other gentleman?

2 MR. KNUTH: That's Ken Kusek from

3 Dykema-Gossett, also.

4 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. So the

5 only people we need to swear in is you,

6 Mr. Knuth?

7 MR. KNUTH: Mr. Greene is going

8 to do most of the talking, so probably the two of

9 us.

10 MEMBER GRONACHAN: You still need

11 to be sworn in.

12 MR. KNUTH: Right.

13 MEMBER GRONACHAN: So would you

14 please raise your right hand.

15 We don't swear in the attorneys.

16 MEMBER SANGHVI: We don't swear

17 at them.

18 MEMBER GRONACHAN: They're

19 exempt. We'll go ahead and swear you in.

20 MEMBER BAUER: Do you solemnly

21 swear or affirm to tell the truth regarding case,

22 05-011?

23 MR. KNUTH: I do.

24 MEMBER BAUER: Thank you, sir.

72

 

 

1 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. You

2 may proceed.

3 MR. GREENE: Thank you

4 -- that's why.

5 Well, thank you and I tell the

6 truth, too. My name is Alan Greene. I work with

7 Ivanhoe Huntley, and I have been working on this

8 project with Ivanhoe for -- it's been a little

9 over two years now. I'm not going to spend a lot

10 of time, but I just want to summarize a little

11 bit of what we're trying to do and what we're

12 asking you for today, and give you the reasons

13 why.

14 We're seeking a use variance to

15 build a site -- kind of -- excuse me -- a

16 multi-family condominium project. The property

17 at issue is on the northside of 12 Mile. It's

18 9.72 acres. It's east of Novi Road. It's

19 currently split zoned. The front three acres is

20 zoned for office use; and the rear seven acres is

21 zoned for residential use, single-family

22 residential use.

23 Our proposed use is -- it is

24 essentially comparable to an RM-1 multi-family

73

 

 

1 use. The surrounding land use, as you can sort

2 of see in that aerial -- if we put it up on the

3 board -- we have the Oakland Hills Memorial

4 Cemetery to the north -- to the west of the

5 property to the rear; there's an office -- a

6 little office project on the front of the site,

7 west of the property; 12-Oaks Mall is -- you

8 can't really see it, puts it's just south of the

9 other side of 12 Mile; and the Michigan State

10 University Toll Gate Farm property is on the east

11 side of the property.

12 And you can see that the east

13 side of the property has some woodlands there,

14 some nice wooded areas. It's attached to the

15 Toll Gate Farms property.

16 Briefly, let me just tell you --

17 I don't know if you know about our company,

18 Ivanhoe Huntley. It's a company that's known for

19 environmentally sensitive developments throughout

20 Southeast Michigan. We've got projects in 23

21 communities. We've won various State and

22 National awards for our communities. And at

23 whatever price range our communities -- we try to

24 believe -- we hope they're unique design for the

74

 

 

1 particular site.

2 We look for unique interesting

3 sites that have interesting natural features; and

4 -- and this site proved to be a very difficult

5 site; and that's why we spent a lot of time on

6 this property.

7 Little bit of the history here,

8 just so you know how we came here. We put this

9 property under contract in January of 2003, so

10 it's been a little over two years. We spent the

11 next few months looking at alternatives for the

12 property. I mean, we also do office building

13 development, so we're not limited to residential.

14 We looked at -- looking at the

15 property for office development. We also looked

16 at it for a variety of different types of

17 condominium/residential development. We made it

18 very clear early on that a mixed use would work

19 on this property; the way it's split-zoned out.

20 You can see the shape of the property. It's very

21 narrow. It's not very large. It has limited

22 road frontage. It's got a variety of land uses

23 surrounding it.

24 It's right across from the mall,

75

 

 

1 12 Mile, in that location, it's heavy traffic.

2 It's got a little office up front so, it wasn't

3 enough land to simply try to do some sort of

4 split zoning; particularly, single-family

5 residential back there -- isolated from any other

6 residential land, behind an office property --

7 was not going to work.

8 So we looked at those, too, but

9 we concluded that it was a much better site for

10 residential. We even laid out some office, you

11 know, properties in there.

12 And, so we came to the City in

13 April of 2003, with a rezoning request for RM-1.

14 At that time we had asked for -- we had a plan

15 that showed 94 condominium units for this

16 properties. A lot of time meeting, discussions

17 with the City, got to the master plan, the Zoning

18 Committee, in November of 2003.

19 That was an interesting process,

20 too, because, we were working on the master plan

21 at the time; and there was controversy among the

22 group, as to what the City wanted to do with this

23 property at that point in time.

24 So there is no recommendation;

76

 

 

1 they just didn't make any recommendation. One

2 person thought, well, maybe I'll put commercial

3 over here; somebody else thought that the

4 residential condominium was a great transitional

5 use. Someone else thought maybe we should put

6 all office there. It was real confusion as to --

7 on the City's part -- as to what it really wanted

8 to do with this area.

9 At that point in time we had --

10 we were given some direction that the City wanted

11 to preserve the idea that the Toll Gate Farm

12 property -- if it ever were to come on the market

13 or be developed -- should be directed more

14 towards residential.

15 The City wanted to keep

16 residential north of 12 Mile; and keep all the

17 businesses south of 12 Mile. That was sort of

18 the direction that we had gotten. We went to the

19 Planning Commission on our rezoning in February

20 2004. The Planning Commission recommended

21 against it; but I thought there was a good

22 dialogue.

23 There was -- the Planning

24 Commission raised some concerns about the density

77

 

 

1 and concern about preserving more trees. But

2 several members of the Planning Commission

3 thought the residential use that we were

4 proposing was a reasonable use. And they liked

5 the aspects of the project.

6 Before the City council acted on

7 the rezoning request, we had conversations with

8 the City Staff Administration, and were urged or

9 persuaded at that time to file for a PRO

10 application. It's a brand new Ordinance the City

11 had just adopted. We were the first ones

12 actually to persue that, so we put everything on

13 hold, so the city could finish adopting the

14 Ordinance prepared their application form; and

15 then we submitted that.

16 And at that point in time, we

17 revised the plan -- and maybe I'll put that on

18 right now. In devising the PRO application,

19 itself, we took the comments that we received

20 from the Planning Commission in the rezoning, and

21 made revisions to the plan. We changed it

22 enormously; changed the units, reduced the

23 density.

24 We now have -- I think it's 64

78

 

 

1 units and eight buildings. We shifted the

2 buildings over as much as possible to preserve

3 the tree line, you know, next to the Toll Gate

4 property. Created a buffer up front with the

5 retention pond; and also -- I could also show

6 you, just so you know what we were talking

7 about -- the types of units we're talking

8 about -- I'll show you two pictures -- are --

9 they're fairly interesting architecturally, and

10 they're not the same.

11 We have three different types,

12 from ranch units to two stories and townhouse

13 units. So a variety of housing within a small

14 project; so you can have different sorts of

15 people. Empty nesters, who don't want to take a

16 lot of stairs, want a ranch unit. So we came up

17 with some interesting designs, specifically, that

18 we thought would work on the sight.

19 We went to the Planning

20 Commission meeting in November of 2004, and

21 surprising to us, unfortunately the Planning

22 Commission, by a split vote, voted against it. A

23 couple of people supported it, and others did not

24 support it.

79

 

 

1 And then in January of 2004, we

2 went to the City Council, and they -- and they

3 followed the recommendation of the majority of

4 the Planning Commission, and denied our request

5 for rezoning.

6 We're seeking a use variance

7 here for this project. Again, we believe that

8 there are practical difficulties and unnecessary

9 hardships here with respect to this property.

10 Again, overall, the sight is really too small for

11 a mixed land use under the current zoning. And

12 it has a variety of land uses surrounding it.

13 It's really a potential site for

14 transitional land use; and that's really what we

15 tried to do. But by putting a condominium

16 project that would take the benefit of the

17 intense commercial across the street -- people

18 can walk there and shop. On the other hand, it

19 provided a transitional land use. So you're not

20 really binding the Toll Gate property to

21 anything.

22 So in the future, if that

23 property becomes available, you could almost put

24 office, if you want. You could put single-family

80

 

 

1 residential; multi-family residential. This type

2 of project is transitional use that would work

3 with all of those.

4 We also pointed out that the

5 traffic situation for this kind of project

6 compared to like doing an office use -- which we

7 have looked at -- there would be significantly

8 less traffic; and we provided that information to

9 the City and the impact. Also, one of the unique

10 features of the site was the wooded area. We

11 tried to -- this type of use allowed us some

12 flexibility to preserve that area as much as

13 possible. So we've got a really nice stand of

14 trees in the buffer area with that.

15 The other thing, too, I want to

16 point out is, under the current zoning -- and I

17 think this was recognized even in the Master Plan

18 Committee -- the current zoning, it's really not

19 marketable. No matter what somebody's going to

20 do with the property, it's not going to be

21 developed in split zoning, single-family

22 residential in the back -- that isolated little

23 seven acres, surrounded by a cemetery, office and

24 the Toll Gate property -- is -- and you'd have to

81

 

 

1 drive through an office or business property to

2 get into it; and it was not marketable.

3 This property has been on the

4 market continuously since 1999, listed by the

5 Duke Company. And, you know, they're a very

6 reputable firm. And It's my understanding -- I

7 confirmed that even as of today -- other than

8 Ivanhoe's offer, which is pending -- they've kept

9 the property on the market because Ivanhoe hasn't

10 purchased it yet -- they've not received a single

11 offer for this property from anybody for any use.

12 It's a very difficult piece.

13 It's a small piece. It's a transitional project.

14 For even Ivanhoe, it's not -- it wasn't a major

15 project when we first looked at it. It's turned

16 into being a two year project; but that wasn't

17 the initial intent. So it's a very difficult

18 piece to develop and to market under it's current

19 zoning.

20 The -- I think -- I think the

21 other concern person we faced is the difficulty

22 with what I thought were shifting City concerns.

23 When we first started going through this process

24 two years ago, and for almost the last year and a

82

 

 

1 half, there was a strong -- we were getting a

2 strong sense that the City wanted residential

3 north of 12 Mile Road.

4 At the City Council meeting at

5 the end of last year, before we came here, there

6 was one or two members of City Council denying

7 the rezoning, suggested that they didn't want to

8 see anymore residential north of 12 Mile. They

9 didn't want to see any more residential in the

10 City of Novi.

11 And that sort of took us a

12 little bit by surprise because that's what we

13 thought this area was sort of targeted for not

14 really business use, but residential. All the

15 business uses is south and west, as well.

16 So, we would ask for this Board

17 to approve a use variance to allow the

18 development of the condominium units we're

19 proposing, limited to the units and the type of

20 units, the density we're proposing. We would

21 understand, you know, even if such a use variance

22 were granted, we would -- this is a conceptual

23 site plan; that we would have to go through, you

24 know, engineering and site planning, you know,

83

 

 

1 with the Planning Commission, consistent with

2 that.

3 So, you know, nothing would end

4 at this Body. This is just whether or not we're

5 allowed to use the land for the type of land use

6 that we're proposing.

7 I sort of ran through if pretty

8 fast, but if you have any questions at all about

9 the project -- we gave you a bunch of materials;

10 and there's a lot of history here, and I didn't

11 just want to repeat it for you.

12 So thank you very much.

13 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Th

14 ank you.

15 Is there anyone in the audience

16 that wishes to make comment in regards to this

17 case?

18 MS. BUNGHAUS(ph): Debbie

19 Bunghaus, Novi/Twelve Mile Roads. I just have a

20 question as to the zoning; which is split zoning.

21 And that seems to be normal for some of us on the

22 north side of 12 Mile.

23 The question is, whether or not

24 a Petitioner or the City has to have that parcel

84

 

 

1 split into the two different zonings; or, in

2 fact, if it is a legitimate split -- because it

3 came originally from the cemetery area. So I'd

4 be interested in finding out both of those.

5 Whether or not the City or a Petitioner asked for

6 the rezoning originally, and if it was a

7 legitimate split from the cemetery property.

8 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Ok

9 ay. Thank you.

10 Is there anyone else in the

11 audience that wishes to make comment?

12 Seeing none, there were 86

13 notices sent; one objection from a William

14 Vanlabing(ph) 28728 Corey Court in Novi. His

15 only objection is that there is too many condos

16 in the area.

17 Building Department?

18 MR. SAVEN: No comment.

19 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Mr.

20 Gilliam?

21 MR. GILLIAM: Yes,

22 ma'am.

23 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Since this is

24 a use arrest variance that the Petitioner is

85

 

 

1 seeking, and given the amount of information that

2 they presented to us this evening, I don't feel

3 that this Board is in any capacity to view this

4 case this evening; and there are significant

5 requirements that need to be display by the

6 Petitioner under the Unnecessary Hardship Rule,

7 so to speak. And I didn't hear a lot of that

8 this evening.

9 Given that, I don't know that we

10 can make any ruling on this case this evening,

11 and would -- my fellow Board Members would not

12 object, and would recommend that this case be

13 tabled at this time.

14 MR. GILLIAM: It's

15 obviously an option that you

16 have. I guess the one

17 comment I would make is if

18 there's -- at this point in

19 time -- if there's any

20 specific information that you

21 think you would like to

22 obtain from the Applicants

23 that you didn't have, you can

24 let them know, or subsequent

86

 

 

1 to the next meeting -- if, in

2 fact this is tabled -- you

3 could go through the

4 materials -- if you find that

5 there are other things that

6 you would like to know, then

7 you let Mr. Saven's office

8 know. He can let us know,

9 and we can pass that along to

10 the applicant.

11 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Me

12 mber Brennan?

13 MEMBER BRENNAN: There was a

14 substantial amount of back-up information. I

15 guess I'd like to ask the Building Department

16 whether you and other departments have had an

17 opportunity to really sift through this all?

18 MR. SAVEN: I think there was a

19 tremendous amount of information that's in the

20 packet, but as the applicant indicated, this is

21 basically conceptual, correct.

22 MR. GREENE: When I

23 say conceptual, it's pretty

24 solid. I mean, these other

87

 

 

1 units that we're proposing to

2 build, the building size is

3 -- when I say -- it's not

4 final engineer. So you don't

5 have the final engineering

6 details that you would get,

7 you know, later on, you know,

8 in terms of sewer and water,

9 and all that. But it's

10 not -- that's what I mean by

11 conceptual.

12 MR. SAVEN: I this if you go

13 back to the standards for the use variance, if

14 you take a look at those specific standards that

15 are required and you look at the particular

16 issues being brought up before you by these

17 individuals tonight, and maybe they can address

18 this at the next meeting.

19 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Ok

20 ay.

21 Board members?

22 MEMBER BRENNAN: Well, I guess

23 maybe that's a good question to pose to the

24 Petitioner, if they're real clear on what it is

88

 

 

1 that this Board can consider as unnecessary

2 hardship for a use variance.

3 If they're clear on that and

4 would be prepared at future date to address those

5 line by line, because we didn't hear a lot of

6 that in tonight's presentation. We got a pitch

7 on the marketing scheme, but there wasn't a lot

8 of discussion about the property being unique or

9 that it couldn't be built RA. If it's seven

10 acres in the back, that's seven big homes on one

11 acre lots. I didn't hear why it couldn't be

12 done.

13 I guess I support the Chairman's

14 position that we consider tabling this at least

15 for now.

16 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Member

17 Fischer?

18 MEMBER FISCHER: I support the

19 Chairman's recommendation, as well. And I'd also

20 like to back-up what Member Brennan said; given

21 the basically the four things that we have to

22 look at when we're looking at a unnecessary

23 hardship.

24 One thing that I definitely need

89

 

 

1 more information on is that the property cannot

2 reasonably be used for a permitted purpose. I

3 felt that it was barely touched on in the

4 presentation. And I think that can go a long

5 way. A use variance definitely is much better

6 than a non-use variance. So we definitely need

7 to look at -- looking at the strict standards and

8 applying them in this case I believe, so.

9 I agree with the Chairman.

10 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Th

11 ank you.

12 MEMBER FISCHER: Woman.

13 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Th

14 ank you.

15 I believe that at this time that

16 I would call to have this case tabled, unless the

17 Petitioner has anything else to ask of this

18 Board. But I echo Member Brennan's sentiments in

19 that we didn't really need the marketing plan.

20 What we need to hear are the reasons why this

21 cannot be used in any other way, shape or form.

22 So in preparing for your case --

23 and we'll table this for next -- this Board will

24 be specifically looking for reasons to prove your

90

 

 

1 unnecessary hardship, as to why this property

2 cannot be used in any other way that it is zoned;

3 that the variance is not going to alter the

4 character of the area, and the standard set forth

5 under the ZBA Rules of Unnecessary Hardship.

6 I feel that that's the

7 Petitioner's burden of proof at this point, and I

8 did not hear enough. There is too much work --

9 there is too much information here, and I don't

10 believe that the staff has even had enough time

11 it review this.

12 So, unless the Petitioner has

13 anything else to offer, I would like to table

14 this case until April.

15 Yes, sir?

16 MR. GREENE: We have

17 no objection to that. And

18 maybe what we'll do, too, is

19 -- a lot of the information

20 you're seeking is in the

21 material. But one of the

22 things we can do as well, is

23 sort of summarize it, in

24 accordance with your list of

91

 

 

1 standards, so it's altogether

2 for the next meeting; so you

3 can understand why we believe

4 that these standards should

5 be met, but I -- we have no

6 objection.

7 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Wi

8 th all due respect, this is

9 the no-nonsense Board, so we

10 don't need the marketing

11 plans and all of that. With

12 all due respect, it looks

13 like a very nice complex.

14 But that's not where -- we

15 have to cut through all of

16 that and get right down to

17 the reasons that --

18 MR. GREENE: Oh, I

19 understand.

20 MEMBER GRONACHAN: -- the

21 criteria --

22 MR. GREENE: We left

23 the marketing stuff out of

24 here.

92

 

 

1 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Ok

2 ay.

3 MR. GREENE: You didn't get that.

4 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. Thank

5 you.

6 Member Fischer?

7 MEMBER FISCHER: At this time I

8 would like to make a Motion to table 05-011 to

9 the April, 2005 Zoning Board of Appeals meeting.

10 MEMBER BAUER: Second.

11 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Is there any

12 further discussion on the Motion?

13 Seeing none, Gail, would you

14 please call the roll.

15 GAIL BACKUS: Member Fischer?

16 MEMBER FISCHER: Aye.

17 GAIL BACKUS: Member Bauer?

18 MEMBER BAUER: Yes.

19 GAIL BACKUS: Member Brennan?

20 MEMBER BRENNAN: Yes.

21 GAIL BACKUS: Member Gronachan?

22 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Yes.

23 GAIL BACKUS: Member Sanghvi?

24 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes.

93

 

 

1 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Yo

2 ur case has been tabled until

3 April. I still feel like

4 it's December out there, so

5 that's why I'm pausing.

6 MR. GREENE: Do you

7 know what date that is in

8 April?

9 MEMBER GRONACHAN: It

10 's first the first Tuesday.

11 GAIL BACKUS: The 5th.

12 MEMBER GRONACHAN: April 5th.

13 MR. GREENE: April

14 5th, okay.

15 MR. GILLIAM: One

16 other comment, too, in the

17 meantime, I'll speak with Ms.

18 McBeth in the Planning

19 Department. (Unintelligible)

20 of her staff, and we'll see

21 if we can get answers to the

22 other questions that were

23 raised from the audience.

24 MEMBER GRONACHAN: All

94

 

 

1 right.

2 Thank you very much,

3 Mr. Gilliam.

4

5 Okay. At this time -- we have

6 one last case. I will call for the final time

7 this evening, 05-012 -- still not present.

8 Board Members?

9 Member Fischer?

10 MEMBER FISCHER: As much as I

11 would like to deny it, due to the weather and the

12 circumstances outside -- it's in the Rules that

13 we can deny it if the Petitioner does not show.

14 But because of the weather, I'd like to table

15 this, as well, to the April, 2005 meeting.

16 MEMBER BAUER: Second.

17 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Ok

18 ay.

19 All those in favor of tabling

20 Case, 05-012 to the April 5th meeting, say aye?

21 BOARD MEMBERS: Aye.

22 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Any opposed?

23 MEMBER BRENNAN: Aye.

24 MEMBER GRONACHAN: One opposed.

95

 

 

1 Case 05-012 is tabled until

2 April.

3

4 Okay. Other matters. I have a

5 couple of things to say. First off, I'd like to

6 congratulate my fellow Board Member, Member

7 Sanghvi, and myself, who were thankfully

8 reappointed to the ZBA yesterday by the City

9 Council. We'd like to thank them for working so

10 diligently. I would have missed you guys.

11 I would still like to make it

12 known that we have a position opening for

13 alternate, and would like to invite anyone who is

14 in Novi that is interested in the Zoning Board --

15 there is plenty of training and backing and

16 support, and look at how much fun we have with

17 these guys. So if anyone is interested, please

18 see Marianne Cornelius at the City Clerk's

19 office.

20 If you have any questions about

21 the ZBA, and if you're interested in joining, I'm

22 available; you can contact Marianne. She can

23 give you my phone number. I'd be more than

24 willing to discuss, if you have any questions

96

 

 

1 before you become -- before you fill out that

2 application.

3 And I would like to invite

4 anyone that's out there. It's been a long

5 winter. You can spend your Tuesday nights with

6 us one a month; and it's very entertaining.

7 Next month, is elections, so

8 we'll be doing nominations and elections. And I

9 want this on the table, I am not reapplying nor

10 will I accept any kind of appointment as

11 Chairwoman again. I would like to become a Board

12 Member.

13 I don't know, but just in case

14 anybody was -- you know, had any ideas.

15 MEMBER FISCHER: I don't think

16 anyone had that idea.

17 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Ok

18 ay.

19 Yeah, right.

20 So if anybody has any -- we'll

21 do elections at the end of next month's meeting.

22 Hopefully we'll have a full Board at that time.

23 Anything else? No.

24 Everybody drive home safely this

97

 

 

1 evening; and I officially adjourn the meeting for

2 this evening.

3 Thank you.

4 (The meeting was adjourned at

5 9:02 p.m.)

6 - - - - -

7

8

9

10

11

12

13

14

15

16

17

18

19

20

21

22

23

24

98

 

 

1 C E R T I F I C A T E

2

3 I, Machelle R.

4 Billingslea-Moore, do hereby certify that I have

5 recorded stenographically the proceedings had and

6 testimony taken in the above-entitled matter at the

7 time and place hereinbefore set forth, and I do

8 further certify that the foregoing transcript,

9 consisting of (93) typewritten pages, is a true and

10 correct transcript of my said stenograph notes.

11

12

13

Machelle R. Billingslea-Moore

14 Certified Shorthand Reporter

15

16 March 24, 2005.

(Date)