| View Agenda for this meeting View Action Summary for this meeting REGULAR MEETING - ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS Proceedings had and testimony taken in the matters of the ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS, at City of Novi, 45175 West Ten Mile Road, Novi, Michigan, Tuesday, February 1, 2005. PRESENT: ALSO PRESENT: REPORTED BY:
1 Novi, Michigan 2 Tuesday, February 1, 2005 3 At 7:30 p.m. 4 - - - - - - 5 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. We will go 6 ahead and call the February, 2005 Zoning Board of 7 Appeals meeting to order. 8 Gail, would you please call the roll. 9 GAIL BACKUS: Member Bauer? 10 MEMBER BAUER: Present. 11 GAIL BACKUS: Member Brennan? 12 MEMBER BRENNAN: Here. 13 GAIL BACKUS: Member Canup, absent 14 excused. 15 Member Fischer? 16 MEMBER FISCHER: Present. 17 GAIL BACKUS: Member Gronachan? 18 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Present. 19 GAIL BACKUS: Member Sanghvi? 20 MEMBER SANGHVI: Present. 21 MEMBER GRONACHAN: The Zoning Board of 22 Appeals is a hearing board, empowered by the Novi 23 City Charter to hear appeals seeking variances from 24 the application of the Novi Zoning Ordinances. 3
1 It takes at least four members to 2 approve a variance request, and a vote of the 3 majority of the members present to deny a variance. 4 This evening we have a full Board. We have five 5 members this evening; and at least four votes are 6 required to approve a variance. Those Petitioners at 7 this time who wish to request that their cases be 8 tabled until next month when a full Board is present, 9 may do so now. 10 Is there anyone in the audience that 11 wishes to table their case until all six members are 12 present next month? 13 Seeing none, all Board decisions made 14 tonight will be final. 15 Agenda, any changes? 16 MR. SAVEN: Madam Chair, if I may, 17 Members of the Board, the agenda for item number one, 18 which is case number 04-127, the agenda is -- needs 19 to be changed for the front yard setback, so that we 20 -- what we do is go into the agenda. It should be at 21 20 feet proposed front yard setback; and the variance 22 request should be for 10. 23 The notices went out correctly. This 24 is just an agenda issue. This is the one that needs 4
1 to be changed. 2 Thank you. 3 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Thank you. 4 Anything else? 5 GAIL BACKUS: Yes. The approval of 6 the January 4th Minutes. 7 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. 8 Anything else? 9 All those in favor of this evening's 10 agenda as it stands say aye? 11 BOARD MEMBERS: Aye. 12 MEMBER GRONACHAN: No opposed. 13 The Minutes that we had in our packet 14 were -- are there any changes or additions or 15 deletions to the Minutes? 16 MEMBER FISCHER: Are you talking about 17 December or January? 18 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Both. December and 19 January. 20 No changes? 21 All those in favor of the December and 22 January Minutes say aye? 23 BOARD MEMBERS: Aye. 24 MEMBER GRONACHAN: No objections. 5
1 At this time, if there's anyone in the 2 audience that wishes to make comments to the Board in 3 regards to a matter; other than a case that is in 4 front of the Board this evening, may do so now. 5 Is there anyone that wishes to make 6 comment? 7 Seeing none, we will go ahead and call 8 our first case. 9 10 Case number, 04-127, filed by Husam 11 Khoury for residence at 1935 West Lake Drive, located 12 at east of West Park Drive and south of Pontiac 13 Trail. 14 Is the Petitioner here this evening? 15 MR. KHOURY: Yes. 16 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Come on down. 17 Board Members, you will remember that 18 -- you will recall that this case was tabled from 19 last month. 20 Mr. Khoury, you're still under oath 21 from last month. And you can proceed by telling the 22 Members what changes you have made. 23 MR. KHOURY: Okay. 24 I've included in the package, which is 6
1 an addition to the earlier package, clarification of 2 the changes. If you reference the very first top 3 page, what we basically did in order to address some 4 concerns from the one neighbor in the back of my 5 house, Wayne, who was here at the last meeting, was 6 we rotated the house on its long axis; maintaining 7 the side yard setback variances that are being 8 requested. So nothing has changed on the side yard 9 setback variance. 10 In addition, what we did is we moved 11 the house closer to the road to address any potential 12 concerns for lake view angle from the two adjoining 13 houses; and to address concerns that the foundation 14 of the house might damage two large maple trees that 15 are between the house and the lake; to preserve and 16 make sure that those trees survive. 17 So basically, the only difference from 18 our last presentation is the rotation of the house, 19 and the house being moved five feet closer to the 20 road. 21 Okay. 22 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. 23 Anything else? 24 MR. KHOURY: In addition, we've had 7
1 extensive discussions with the neighbor that was here 2 last time, Wayne; and I believe Wayne was planning 3 on coming to the meeting. I think at the very least 4 he submitted the documents in support of the building 5 of the house. 6 So I think we've made some progress. I 7 do recognize one neighbor still has a concern; and 8 that concern is associated with the height of the 9 house. And again I want to emphasize to the Board, 10 there's no current plans to request a height 11 variance. It's not in the request that's being put 12 forth before you right now. 13 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. 14 MR. KHOURY: Okay. 15 Thank you. 16 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Thank you. 17 Is there anyone in the audience that 18 wishes to make comment in the matter of this case? 19 Seeing none -- 20 Oh, Mr. Khoury, could you please stay 21 there, please. 22 MR. KHOURY: Oh, I'm sorry. 23 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Please, come on 24 down, sir. 8
1 MR. THEMOPOLIS: I don't have to take 2 for this, do I? 3 MEMBER GRONACHAN: No. 4 MR. THEMOPOLIS: Okay. 5 My name is John Themopolis. I own the 6 property 1951 West Lake Drive. I just wanted to come 7 tonight and state that Mr. Khoury has gone out of his 8 way to review the plans with me; both for the last 9 meeting and for this meeting; and I totally endorse 10 the request that he submitted to you. 11 Thank you. 12 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. 13 Thank you. 14 Is there anyone else? 15 MR. GANATIC(ph): Hi. My name is Greg 16 Ganatic. I am constructing a new home at 1947 West 17 Lake Drive. Throughout the planning process, Sam has 18 kept me abreast of what he was intending to do and I 19 think he's doing a great job; and I fully support 20 what he's looking to do. 21 Thank you. 22 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Thank you. 23 Anyone else? 24 Seeing none -- 9
1 MR. FAIRINGTON: Excuse me, ma'am. 2 MEMBER GRONACHAN: I'm sorry. 3 Come on down. 4 MR. FAIRINGTON: Good evening. 5 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Good evening. 6 MR. FAIRINGTON: My name is James 7 Fairington. I live at 1931 West Lake Drive. 8 I am the neighbor to the north; the 9 next door neighbor, of Sam Khoury. I am in my 12th 10 year at this house. Each year I have watched as our 11 60 to 70 year-old homes on Walled Lake have been 12 replaced. In fact, I see this on every lake in our 13 area. 14 The proposed home we are discussing is 15 consistent with the new homes that I have seen built 16 around Walled Lake. I am here in support of the 17 variances requested by Sam Khoury. I was hesitant on 18 mentioning this next point, but if I may. 19 What I moved into this home in 1993, 20 there was a field and a small woods behind me. It 21 was a home to many reptiles, small animals, birds and 22 deer. The neighbors and I kept the area mowed 23 connected to the road. It was like a small park. We 24 did enjoy the quiet and the beautiful sunsets. 10
1 Two winters ago, about this time and 2 about this cold, we witnessed a small tsunami of our 3 own. In less than two weeks, the entire woods was 4 destroyed. Any life form that lived in the trees or 5 in the ground was killed. Now, less than 30 feet 6 from our street, there are homes towering over us. 7 Our privacy is gone; a long with the quiet and 8 serenity enjoyed. 9 I understood we could not stand in the 10 way of these developments. We sacrificed. 11 May I answer any questions from the 12 Zoning Board Members? 13 Thank you. 14 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Thank you. 15 Is there anyone else who wishes to 16 make a statement? 17 MR. OLIVER: Good evening, Board. 18 William Oliver, 2009 West Lake. Sam 19 approached me a little while ago about this project. 20 Anything down there is an improvement. You guys 21 probably all drove by, saw the neighborhood. As the 22 previous gentleman indicated, a lot of old homes down 23 there, and anything new is certainly an improvement. 24 And I would echo his sentiments with respect to what 11
1 has been going on across the street. 2 We couldn't stand in the way of any of 3 that development, and I would hope that you guys 4 would weigh -- if there's any concern whatsoever 5 about Sam blocking views of that sub, that you would 6 weigh that in proportionate to his right to use his 7 property to the fullest extent. 8 And as such, I support his project 110 9 percent, as well. 10 Thank you. 11 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Thank you. 12 Anyone else? 13 MR. McCloud: Hello. My name is Wayne 14 McCloud. I live directly behind Mr. Khoury. Since 15 the last meeting, Mr. Khoury stepped up and met with 16 myself, and I don't know if he's gotten with some of 17 the other neighbors, but he's taking steps to show 18 his plan and I'm satisfied with his plan. 19 And I don't have any objections to 20 Mr. Khoury building on his property. Hopefully the 21 Board sees that, as well. 22 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. 23 Thank you. 24 Any other people -- any other 12
1 residents wishing to make comments on this case? 2 No others? 3 There were 42 notices mailed for 4 tonight's meeting. There were three approvals and 5 one objection. The objection comes from Rick and 6 Renee Vondrack. They live at -- well, the address 7 listed is 44943 Cobblestone. 8 The requested variances would 9 significantly impact our valued community. The 10 requested variance would allow a substantially 11 oversized building for that property. The planned 12 structure significantly decreases my homes value. 13 The homes in the Summerlynn Subdivision pay large lot 14 premiums to have a lake view; and the current plans 15 do not consider the drastic reduction in property 16 value for those homes. 17 That's the only objection. 18 Building Department? 19 MR. SAVEN: Just to point out that 20 this gentleman did what the Board requested from the 21 previous meeting. He did make contact with the 22 (unintelligible) neighbors who had concerns, number 23 one. Number two, I heard issues regarding a height 24 variance. There's no height variance before you 13
1 today. 2 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. 3 Board Members? 4 Member Brennan? 5 MEMBER BRENNAN; Well, if there's a 6 lot of nodding on the table -- again, we've got 7 neighborhood support. We can't -- there's no issue 8 regarding height. Mr. Khoury has done what we asked 9 him to do, and I'd make a Motion with respect to case 10 04-127, I would move that the Petitioner's request as 11 submitted tonight be approved due to lot 12 configuration. 13 MEMBER SANGHVI: Second. 14 MEMBER BAUER: Second. 15 MEMBER GRONACHAN: It's been moved and 16 seconded. 17 Is there any further discussion on the 18 Motion? 19 Seeing none, Gail, would you please 20 call the roll. 21 GAIL BACKUS: Member Brennan? 22 MEMBER BRENNAN: Yes. 23 GAIL BACKUS: Member Sanghvi? 24 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes. 14
1 GAIL BACKUS: Member Bauer? 2 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 3 GAIL BACKUS: Member Gronachan? 4 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Yes. 5 GAIL BACKUS: Member Fischer? 6 MEMBER FISCHER: Aye. 7 GAIL BACKUS: Five -- five to zero, 8 Motion passes. 9 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Thank you. 10 Your variance has been granted. 11 Good luck to you. 12 MR. KHOURY: Thank you. 13 Thank you to the Board. 14 15 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. We will go 16 ahead and call our next case, 04-120, filed by Don 17 Wallace for Toys R Us at 43460 West Oaks Drive and 18 43480 West Oaks Drive. 19 Mr. Wallace is requesting 12 variances 20 that are required to split the property known as Toys 21 R Us and Kids R Us located at the above address. 22 And you are? 23 MR. VANDERMILEN: Lee Vandermilen from 24 Progressive A.E. representing Toys R Us. 15
1 MEMBER GRONACHAN: All right. 2 Are you an attorney? 3 MR. VANDERMILEN: No. 4 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. 5 Please raise your right hand and be 6 sworn in by our secretary. 7 MEMBER BAUER: Do you solemnly swear 8 or affirm to tell the truth regarding case 04-120? 9 MR. VANDERMILEN: I do. 10 MEMBER BAUER: Thank you, sir. 11 MR. VANDERMILEN: Okay. 12 Don Wallace was not able to make it to 13 meeting this evening. 14 The property is located in the West 15 Oaks Two Shopping Center. Toys purchased the 16 property in 1986, and until recently they operated 17 the two stores there; one was Toys R Us and one was 18 Kids R Us. 19 In 2004, they began leasing the Kids R 20 Us building to PetCo. Toys decided that they would 21 desire to sell this property to PetCo, and by doing 22 -- and by looking at that request, there is a need 23 for a land division or a lot split from the City. 24 The process to acquire a lot split is 16
1 to come before this Board and ask for some variances; 2 based on building and parking setbacks. Basically, 3 all the building and parking improvements are 4 existing, and we are not currently requesting any new 5 improvements to the property. 6 It is our belief that granting the 7 requested variances will not negatively impact the 8 adjacent landowners. And finally, the planning -- 9 the planner noted three different issues in his 10 review of the plans, and we have no objection to 11 complying with those three issues. 12 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. 13 MR. VANDERMILEN: That's it. 14 MEMBER GRONACHAN: All set? 15 MR. VANDERMILEN: Yep. 16 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Is there anyone in 17 the audience that wishes to address the Board in 18 regards to this matter? 19 Seeing none, there were 99 notices 20 sent; no approvals, no objections. 21 Building Department? 22 MR. SAVEN: Just to point out that 23 this is not an unusual circumstance when you deal 24 with shopping centers, in regards to property splits 17
1 and ownership within that center. 2 This matter has been brought before 3 you on a previous occasion, and maybe a couple of 4 them, regarding ownership. What makes it very 5 difficult, regardless of the situation, is the 6 underlying zoning district still needs to be complied 7 with. 8 In this case, it's the regional center 9 that we're dealing with and the horrendous setback 10 requirements and side yard setbacks, front yard and 11 rear yard setbacks, which is all before you right 12 now. The biggest concern of the Building Department 13 was that which dealt with the walls which are 14 adjacent to the rest of the complex. 15 Because once the property line is 16 established, we have an issue with providing the fire 17 safety that's necessary for those walls; and making 18 sure that that has been taken care of. In this case, 19 it has been. There's no penetration of those walls. 20 It meets the requirements; Building Department is 21 satisfied. 22 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. 23 Board Members? 24 Member Brennan? 18
1 MEMBER BRENNAN: Is it not also -- 2 well, it's stated -- but if Toys R Us has sold this 3 off, then that business has to have its own tax 4 number. 5 MR. SAVEN: Correct. 6 MEMBER BRENNAN: It's not only a 7 physical separation, but it's a legal separation. 8 MR. SAVEN: That's correct. 9 MEMBER BRENNAN: It's really something 10 that needs to be done as a means of fixing the 11 paperwork. 12 Okay. If there's additional nodding, 13 we'll continue. 14 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Member Sanghvi? 15 MEMBER SANGHVI: Well, this is pretty 16 clear to me that this basically a requirement of the 17 law; not of anything else. Nothing physically 18 changes as it is, and I have no hesitation in 19 supporting it. 20 And with all the nodding I see, I 21 might as well make a Motion that we grant the 22 Petitioner's request for the variances, as many as 23 they are, but they're all needed to comply with the 24 law; and I guess the reason for granting this is the 19
1 special circumstances. 2 MEMBER BRENNAN: Support. 3 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Mr. Gilliam? 4 MR. GILLIAM: Thank you, good 5 evening. 6 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Good evening. 7 MR. GILLIAM: I would just ask Member 8 Sanghvi and the second to the Motion if they could 9 subject the Motion to the three conditions contained 10 in the January 10th, 2005 letter from Tim Schmitt in 11 the Planning Department. 12 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Before we do that, 13 did you have something else to add? 14 MEMBER FISCHER: That was exactly what 15 I was going -- make a friendly amendment. 16 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. 17 MEMBER SANGHVI: Well then, make one 18 then. 19 MEMBER FISCHER: I'd just make a 20 friendly amendment that the conditions noted in the 21 January 10th meeting with Timothy Schmitt be part of 22 the Motion as conditions of the Motion. 23 MEMBER SANGHVI: They should be 24 incorporated in the Motion; I accept your amendment. 20
1 MEMBER BRENNAN: Support. 2 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. 3 Any further discussion on the Motion? 4 Seeing none, Gail, please call the 5 roll. 6 GAIL BACKUS: Member Sanghvi? 7 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes. 8 GAIL BACKUS: Member Brennan? 9 MEMBER BRENNAN: Yes. 10 GAIL BACKUS: Member Bauer? 11 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 12 GAIL BACKUS: Member Gronachan? 13 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Yes. 14 GAIL BACKUS: And Member Fischer? 15 MEMBER FISCHER: Aye. 16 GAIL BACKUS: Motion passes five to 17 zero. 18 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Your variance has 19 been granted. 20 MR. VANDERMILEN: Thank you. 21 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Thank you. 22 23 Okay. We'll call our next case, which 24 is 05-001, filed by William Wingfield for Tradewinds 21
1 Spa at 41787 Grand River, located south of Grand 2 River and west of Meadowbrook. 3 Mr. Deters with Tradewinds Spas is 4 requesting an exceptional -- exception/special use 5 approval to allowed the continued placement of an 6 eight by eight arbor located at the above address. 7 Good evening. 8 MR. WINGFIELD: Good evening. 9 MEMBER GRONACHAN: And you are? 10 MR. WINGFIELD: I'm Mr. Wingfield, 11 William Wingfield. I think that's a misprint of 12 Mr. Deters. It appears to me that he would be the 13 next gentleman on the agenda. I don't know how that 14 occurred. 15 MEMBER GRONACHAN: I guess that is, 16 yeah. 17 Okay. Well, thank you for noticing 18 that. 19 MR. WINGFIELD: Yes. 20 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Could you please 21 raise your right hand and be sworn in by our 22 secretary. 23 MEMBER BAUER: Do you solemnly swear 24 or affirm to tell the truth regarding case, 05-011 22
1 (sic)? 2 MR. WINGFIELD: I do. 3 MEMBER BAUER: Thank you, sir. 4 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. 5 You may proceed. 6 MR. WINGFIELD: Thank you. 7 Basically, I was under the impression 8 from conversations with the Ordinance people and the 9 -- I think more in the Sign Ordinance area, and -- 10 that a small arbor or gazebo-type building would be 11 permissible; as long as it was not a building used to 12 sell products; that that would not meet Code or be 13 allowed. 14 We put up this small arbor. It's 15 actually eight feet by eight feet. In an effort, we 16 did re-landscape the area. We're leasing the 17 property. Our retail showroom sells portable spas 18 for home use. We also sell backyard projects; which 19 include, decks, gazebos, sun rooms. 20 This particular arbor is not intended 21 to be sold. We've never put a for sale sign on it; 22 or tried to use it as a display or sales medium. In 23 fact, again, if I may refer to the agenda -- and I'm 24 taking responsibility. I don't think I communicated 23
1 this well. You could refer to the last paragraph 2 under -- on this case, where it says, "Applicant 3 constructed the arbor to beautify the area" -- that 4 was our goal, as well as we did considerable other 5 landscaping -- "and to have a place for employees to 6 eat lunch" -- that is also a consideration, something 7 we wanted to do. The showroom area at our location 8 there is smaller than we would like. 9 We use the rear of the building as 10 warehousing space, as well. The last part of the 11 last statement there, "As an outside showroom during 12 the busy season", was not our intent. I think I 13 miscommunicated that. Obviously, an eight by eight 14 area would not be a showroom area. 15 What I was trying to communicate was 16 that on occasion, due to the crowded conditions in 17 the showroom, we might ask a customer to have a 18 comfortable -- especially summer -- we're thinking 19 spring/summer, which is our busy season -- to have a 20 comfortable place; and to try and separate when 21 multiple clients would be in the store; and give an 22 opportunity to talk a little more privately regarding 23 their purchase or their concerns about their project, 24 as another person might be busy in the showroom. 24
1 That was our concern. Frankly, one of 2 things I, again, have a little trouble understanding 3 is, directly across the street from us -- and one of 4 the reasons we went ahead with the project, was there 5 is a 12 by 12 gazebo, as a part of the condominium 6 project. And I'm sorry. I can't say that name of 7 that. 8 MEMBER SANGHVI: Gateway. 9 MR. WINGFIELD: Pardon? 10 MEMBER SANGHVI: Gateway. 11 MR. WINGFIELD: Gateway, thank you. 12 And the new small shopping center, 13 which I believe is also apart of the Gateway 14 community there, also has, I believe, it's 18 by 18 15 gazebo with benches. 16 So we really felt we were well within 17 what was going on in the community in constructing 18 this small arbor. Again, ours is eight by eight, and 19 there are benches inside the one at the retail shops 20 across the street from me. There's also an outdoor 21 arbor there, with tables and chairs; and my 22 understanding is the Dairy Queen there, as well as 23 the coffee shop, and so on, people do sit and the 24 tables there and have lunch. 25
1 So again, our purpose, as I've stated, 2 is to beautify the area; and again, as a little 3 auxiliary area, to serve for our employees at lunch, 4 as well as an opportunity to visit. All we planned 5 to put in that would be a patio-type table. 6 Thank you. 7 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Is there anyone in 8 the audience that wishes to make comment in the 9 matter of this case? 10 Seeing none, there were 16 notices 11 mailed; one approval from Mr. and Mrs. Donald Grant 12 at 41824 Cherry Hill. Mr. and Mrs. Grant wrote a 13 lengthy letter in support of this. 14 There were no objections. 15 Building Department? 16 MR. SAVEN: This is basically two 17 issues. Number one, in regards to the last 18 paragraph, which you indicated, that predominately 19 came off your application. That's what -- 20 MR. WINGFIELD: I apologize, 21 Mr. Saven. 22 MR. SAVEN: That's number one. Number 23 two is in regards to the Gateway project. That's a 24 different animal in itself. It was a requirement of 26
1 this type of thing. The project is in a NCC district 2 and it needs special approval. 3 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. 4 Board Members? 5 MEMBER SANGHVI: I have one question 6 for the Building Department. 7 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Go ahead. 8 MEMBER SANGHVI: Is this an illegal 9 structure? 10 MR. SAVEN: Yes. 11 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. 12 MEMBER GRONACHAN: All right. 13 Board Members? 14 Member Fischer? 15 MEMBER FISCHER: Why would this not be 16 considered an accessory structure? 17 MR. SAVEN: If it came as an accessory 18 structure, then it would have to go through the 19 Planning Department and get approval and through that 20 entire process that was necessary for a commercial 21 type of a building. 22 MEMBER FISCHER: Okay. 23 But could they do that? 24 MR. SAVEN: It's very possible that 27
1 they could, but I think the use, which the gentleman 2 had indicated in the last paragraph, that they were 3 going to use this as a showroom -- 4 MEMBER FISCHER: Correct. 5 MR. SAVEN: -- type of a thing. Yeah, 6 I kind of questioned that a little bit, so I think 7 just by virtue of what was presented, number one, as 8 an issue, the use of that building and the 9 temporariness is what I believe is what he's here for 10 today. 11 Okay. Because, this is not -- this is 12 basically a seasonal thing. He's not there all year 13 round; and there's the time effort when he can sell 14 his product. 15 MR. WINGFIELD: We could -- we do 16 leave it -- would leave it up year-round. It is up 17 -- 18 MR. SAVEN: I understand that. 19 MR. WINGFIELD: Okay. 20 MR. SAVEN: But the use of it would 21 not be. 22 MR. WINGFIELD: Yes, you're -- that's 23 correct. 24 So am I understanding we would need to 28
1 change the use to be able to comply -- 2 MR. SAVEN: You would have comply 3 issues. You would have issues as far as setbacks and 4 placement of that particular structure; how far it 5 can be in the front yard setback or wherever it's 6 going to be placed. I think you're looking for it to 7 be in the place where it's at right now. 8 MEMBER FISCHER: Thank you, Madam 9 Chair. 10 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Thank you. 11 Member Brennan? 12 MEMBER BRENNAN: I drove through just 13 today, and I saw this as a pretty harmless amenity to 14 his business. I was concerned with the outside 15 showroom. I was trying to figure out how you were 16 going to get a hot tub in there. It's going to be a 17 single person hot tub. 18 MEMBER SANGHVI: It's a baby tub. 19 MEMBER BRENNAN: Yeah. 20 So with that figured out, I really 21 don't have any big issues with this. I think it's 22 pretty harmless. 23 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. 24 Any other Board Members? 29
1 MEMBER SANGHVI: One question. 2 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Member Sanghvi? 3 MEMBER SANGHVI: I have a question 4 before making a Motion. 5 Is if it's going to be a Motion for 6 the variance of the use or -- 7 MR. GILLIAM: This would be a Motion 8 for a special use approval. 9 MEMBER SANGHVI: Special use. 10 MR. GILLIAM: Which is something 11 different than the variance per the terms of the 12 Zoning Ordinance, itself. 13 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. 14 Madam Chair, may I make a Motion in 15 case number 05-001, that the applicant's request for 16 a special use be granted, because this appears to be 17 a harmless and a useful structure; not only for his 18 own benefit, but also for his own employees. 19 Thank you. 20 MEMBER FISCHER: Second. 21 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Member Bauer? 22 MEMBER BAUER: For this applicant 23 only? 24 MEMBER SANGHVI: Pardon? 30
1 MEMBER BAUER: For this applicant 2 only? 3 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes, for this 4 particular business only, yes. 5 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. 6 It's been moved and seconded. 7 Is there any further discussion on the 8 Motion? 9 Seeing none, Gail, please call the 10 roll. 11 GAIL BACKUS: Member Sanghvi? 12 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes. 13 GAIL BACKUS: Member Fischer? 14 MEMBER FISCHER: Aye. 15 GAIL BACKUS: Member Bauer? 16 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 17 GAIL BACKUS: Member Brennan? 18 MEMBER BRENNAN: Yes. 19 GAIL BACKUS: Member Gronachan? 20 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Yes. 21 GAIL BACKUS: Motion passes five to 22 zero. 23 MEMBER GRONACHAN: And we'll be out on 24 the first warm day to have lunch. 31
1 MR. WINGFIELD: Thank you. 2 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Thank you. 3 MR. WINGFIELD: We'll look forward to 4 that. 5 MEMBER GRONACHAN: All right. 6 7 Okay. Case number 05-002, filed by 8 Paul Deters from Metro Detroit Signs for District -- 9 I'm sorry. Let me try that again. 10 Paul Deters from Metro Detroit Signs 11 for District(sic) Tire, located at 42990 Grand River. 12 Is Mr. Deters here? Okay. 13 Mr. Deters is requesting one sign 14 variance to erect a monument sign at the Discount 15 Tire located at the above address. 16 And you are? 17 MR. DETERS: My name is Paul Deters. 18 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Would you please 19 raise your right hand and be sworn in by our 20 secretary. 21 MEMBER BAUER: Do you solemnly swear 22 or affirm to tell the truth regarding case 05-022? 23 MR. DETERS: Yes, sir. 24 MEMBER BAUER: Wait a minute. 32
1 05-002? 2 MR. DETERS: I still do. 3 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Must be the case. 4 I don't know. 5 MEMBER BAUER: Something. 6 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Yeah, something's 7 wrong. 8 You may proceed. 9 MR. DETERS: Thank you. 10 Good evening. I'm here on behalf of 11 Discount Tire this evening. As many of you are 12 aware, I'm sure, they have an established here. In 13 fact, they've been at that store for about 15 years 14 now. And have come to have a few challenges there; 15 as you note from going by the location, the building 16 sits about 150 feet back from the road. 17 When the store was initially built, 18 that wasn't as much of a challenge for them, but over 19 the years here, all of the landscaping has matured 20 around there, and it's made it very difficult for 21 them to have visibility at the building. 22 I think each of you has in your packet 23 there, a photograph that was taken of the existing 24 wall signage when there's foliage on the trees, and 33
1 how difficult it is to even see that. 2 And in fact, I also have with me here 3 this evening, Mr. Tim Galloway, he's a regional vice- 4 president of Discount Tire. And the purpose for them 5 asking for us come here this evening, is they've had 6 several comments from customers of their difficulty 7 of locating their location. 8 And what they're proposing to do this 9 evening is to add a monument sign out in the front, 10 to improve the visibility; particularly in the summer 11 when the leaves on the trees (unintelligible) to 12 identify the building at all. 13 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. 14 Anything else? 15 MR. DETERS: That's it. 16 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Is there anyone in 17 the audience that wishes to make comment on this 18 case? 19 MR. GALLOWAY: Good evening. My name 20 is Tim Galloway. I'm with Discount Tire Company. 21 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Sir, would you 22 please raise your right hand and be sworn in by our 23 secretary. 24 MEMBER BAUER: Do you solemnly swear 34
1 or affirm to tell the truth regarding case 05-002? 2 MR. GALLOWAY: I do. 3 MEMBER BAUER: Thank you, sir. 4 MR. GALLOWAY: I'm here to represent 5 our Novi employees at the Novi Store. And as Mr. 6 Deters has said, a lot of what we do in the retail 7 environment is to answer to the voice of the 8 customer. And the voice of the customer tells us 9 that they want to be able to find the establishment 10 quickly and easily. 11 Now if you're traveling northwest on 12 Grand River approaching Town Center Drive, the Town 13 Center Drive monument sign right there at the corner, 14 with the pine trees right behind it have matured and 15 grown in, and it's very hard to see our building from 16 there. 17 As you continue on Grand River past 18 Town Center Drive, you notice the building almost 19 past the driveway. Now, when you're coming southwest 20 on Grand River, you don't even notice our sign on the 21 building or the building, until you're almost past 22 the driveway. 23 So a monument sign closer to the 24 street, as on the plan there, I think would help our 35
1 customers find our business and make us more 2 successful in servicing our customers. 3 Thank you. 4 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Thank you. 5 Is there anyone else in the audience 6 this evening? 7 Okay. 8 There were 21 notices; no approvals, 9 no objections. 10 Building Department? 11 MR. AMOLSCH: No comment. 12 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Board Members? 13 Member Fischer? 14 MEMBER FISCHER: First off, I must say 15 that if the Board was looking to support this sign, I 16 would have a very touch time doing it, given the -- 17 without the other signage coming down; just to point 18 that out. 19 The Petitioner has rendered that sign 20 useless, so if there was a Motion, I would like to 21 see that as part of that Motion. 22 Second of all, Alan, can you tell me 23 what they would be allowed in that area as far as a 24 ground sign, if that wasn't sign wasn't up? 36
1 MR. AMOLSCH: They would be permitted 2 this sign, although the setback would be 80 feet(sic) 3 from the centerline of Grand River to comply with the 4 Ordinance. 5 MEMBER FISCHER: Okay. 6 And the setback currently that you're 7 proposing on this sign? 8 MR. DETERS: As it's shown on there, 9 it's about 57 feet, right now, where the temporary 10 sign is placed. There's a couple of manholes on 11 there that I think we might have some issues with 12 some water there, that requires us to 57 and 58 feet 13 back. 14 The issues if we continue to move it 15 further back, there are other low-level trees, about 16 eight or ten feet tall, that would be just to the 17 west of where that sign is right now. And if we were 18 to move the sign further back along there to, let's 19 say, the point where we get another 20 feet back or 20 so, we'd have the same issues that they have with the 21 building sign at this point, unless those trees could 22 be removed; which I'm sure is not really an option. 23 MEMBER FISCHER: So if they had it 24 where they currently are, they'd be allowed -- 37
1 MR. AMOLSCH: 30 square feet. 2 MEMBER FISCHER: Okay. 3 Given that information, I definitely 4 feel that the Petitioner could possibly look to live 5 within the means of the Zoning Ordinance. 6 Thank you, Madam Chair. 7 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Thank you. 8 Member Brennan? 9 MEMBER BRENNAN: I need to clarify 10 something. The sign -- the mock-up that's there, how 11 far off of Grand River is that right now? 12 MR. DETERS: From the centerline of 13 the road? 14 MEMBER BRENNAN: Is that where you 15 measure it from? 16 MR. AMOLSCH: Yes. 17 MR. DETERS: That's 58 feet right now. 18 MEMBER BRENNAN: I didn't have any 19 problems with where it's located right now. But I 20 guess that changes our variance, does it not? 21 Because then we're talking about setback, rather than 22 a second sign. 23 MR. AMOLSCH: Right. 24 MEMBER BRENNAN: I noted the same 38
1 thing on your application that the current building 2 sign is completely useless; so I guess I would ask 3 Discount Tire whether they would consider removing 4 that; and then would we have to renotice this as a 5 setback case? 6 MR. AMOLSCH: Yes. 7 The information when we did the write 8 up wasn't provided to us exactly where the sign was 9 located. They had five feet from the property line, 10 which didn't help any. So that's why we didn't put 11 it notice, itself, as a second sign, because they 12 were -- they wanted to keep their wall sign. 13 MEMBER BRENNAN; Should we ask the 14 gentleman from Discount Tire to come back? 15 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Sir, would you like 16 to come back down? 17 I think you know the feel of the 18 Board, what direction they're going. 19 MR. GALLOWAY: Yes, I do. 20 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Do you understand 21 what they're proposing? 22 MR. GALLOWAY: Yes. 23 MEMBER GRONACHAN: What their 24 suggestions are? 39
1 MR. GALLOWAY: Just to clarify -- 2 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. 3 MR. GALLOWAY: -- to get a monument 4 sign, we remove the building sign. 5 MEMBER GRONACHAN: But unfortunately 6 you would have to come back in front of us, because 7 we'd have to renotify this case; because it would 8 then need a setback variance, okay, as opposed to a 9 second sign variance. Your need for your sign 10 changes at that time. 11 MR. GALLOWAY: Okay. 12 I think that would be acceptable to 13 us. 14 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. 15 Given that, can we just table this 16 case then or -- 17 I guess my question is, do we have to 18 deny this and then renotify, or can we table it and 19 readvertise it? 20 MR. GILLIAM: You'd refer to the 21 Building Department's procedure, but from a legal 22 standpoint, you can either table it so the applicant 23 to submit and amend the application. 24 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. 40
1 MR. GILLIAM: Or if you prefer, you 2 can go ahead and deny it, and they can resubmit. 3 MEMBER BRENNAN: Except that if we 4 deny, if we wants to resubmit, he's got to -- it's 5 going to cost again -- 6 MEMBER BAUER: It'll cost him money. 7 MEMBER BRENNAN: -- and I don't think 8 we -- 9 MEMBER GRONACHAN: No, we don't need 10 to do that, absolutely. 11 MEMBER FISCHER: Madam Chair? 12 MEMBER FISCHER: Couldn't we approve 13 it with the condition that they take down the 14 building sign? I know, but that's still not a 15 setback case, I guess, currently. I'm just saying, 16 we've done that before, to place conditions. 17 MR. GILLIAM: The condition you'd be 18 placing would involve the variance itself. You can't 19 impose a condition that requires a variance. You can 20 only grant a variance or not grant a variance. You 21 can't impose a condition that would have to include a 22 variance. There's a notice problem there. 23 MEMBER FISCHER: Okay. 24 Thank you, Madam Chair. 41
1 MR. DETERS: May I ask question here. 2 I think you'd said that if the sign 3 were 30 square feet, that it could go where it's 4 being proposed? 5 MR. AMOLSCH: The setback for a ground 6 sign is 63 feet from the centerline of Grand River. 7 If you have a 63 foot setback at that location, you 8 could have -- actually a 31 and a half square foot 9 sign. It's one square foot for every two feet back. 10 MR. DETERS: And if the sign area, 11 itself, does the base have to count? Because the 12 actual signage area is only 28 square feet. It's 40 13 square feet, if you factor in the shroud or the base. 14 But really the only thing that's on that is just the 15 address. 16 MEMBER BRENNAN: That's how we measure 17 it though. 18 MR. SAVEN: If the sign sits 58 feet 19 back and it's required to be 63 square feet back. 20 That's the first issue. 21 Is that correct, Alan? 22 MR. AMOLSCH: That's correct. 23 MR. SAVEN: (Unintelligible) put the 24 sign back far enough. Is it possible to do that? 42
1 MR. AMOLSCH: The application says 2 eight feet by three foot (unintelligible). 3 MR. DETERS: It's 40 -- the sign, 4 itself, is three feet six by eight feet; but it sits 5 at five feet overall height, because of the skirt or 6 the shroud at the bottom of it. 7 MEMBER BRENNAN: And he measured it, 8 Alan, it's 40 square feet. 9 MR. AMOLSCH: Okay. 10 MR. SAVEN: The question that I have 11 is the sign has to set back far, based upon his 12 setback as he has it right now. It's required to be 13 63 foot back from the centerline of Grand River. The 14 setback is one issue. If he can move the sign back 15 to the 63 foot -- 16 MR. AMOLSCH: He wouldn't need a 17 variance. 18 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Then -- 19 MR. SAVEN: -- he doesn't need a 20 variance. 21 Can you do that? 22 MEMBER BRENNAN: He already said he 23 can't. 24 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Right. 43
1 MR. SAVEN: So he's got to come back. 2 MEMBER BRENNAN: I think he's ready to 3 do that. 4 MEMBER GRONACHAN: If something should 5 happen that you're doing your homework and you find 6 out that you don't need the variance, you know, it's 7 not that we didn't enjoy seeing you this evening, but 8 that means that you don't have to come back. 9 So all those in favor of tabling case 10 04-002(sic) until the March meeting, say aye? 11 BOARD MEMBERS: Aye. 12 MEMBER BRENNAN: Discussion? 13 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Yes. 14 MEMBER BRENNAN: Could I ask that this 15 Petitioner be at the head of the class? 16 MEMBER GRONACHAN: I was going to note 17 that to Gail, that he would be the first Petitioner 18 -- 19 MR. DETERS: Thank you. 20 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. 21 So we'll see you next month. 22 MR. DETERS: Okay. 23 Thank you. 24 MR. GALLOWAY: Thank you. 44
1 MEMBER GRONACHAN: We will now call 2 case number 05-003, filed by Amy Davenport of ASI- 3 Modulex for Telcom Credit Union at 45175 12 Mile, 4 between Novi Road and Beck Road. 5 Ms. Davenport is requesting one sign 6 variance to erect a third sign at the above address. 7 And you are? 8 MS. PIPKIN(ph): I'm actually Donna 9 Pipkin, and I work for ASI-Modulex, as well. And I'm 10 here in place of Amy. 11 MS. DAILEY(ph): And I'm Linda Dailey, 12 business development specialist at Telcom, and I'd 13 like to make the presentation. I also have some 14 photos that I want to -- 15 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. Would you 16 just -- before you do that, would you both -- can you 17 all be sworn in, please? 18 MS. DAILEY: Yeah. 19 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Raise your right 20 hand. 21 MEMBER BAUER: Do you solemnly swear 22 or affirm to tell the truth regarding case 05-003? 23 MS. PIPKIN: I do. 24 MS. DAILEY: I do. 45
1 MEMBER BAUER: Thank you. 2 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. 3 MS. DAILEY: These are just photos of 4 the mock-up sign and photos of our entrance mock-up 5 signs. 6 Well, good evening. 7 I'm Linda Dailey and I'm a business 8 development specialist for Telcom Credit Union. 9 Donna is here, of course, to answers questions later 10 about the specifics of the sign; and our president of 11 our credit union, Tim Rink, is here, as well. 12 Of course, we're here to ask for your 13 approval to install a wall our building. 14 Did you want me to put the mock-up on 15 the overhead or -- 16 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Whatever you'd like 17 to do. 18 MS. DAILEY: Okay. 19 I wanted to just give you a little 20 brief history of how we came to the conclusion that 21 we needed the wall sign. Basically, we came to the 22 realization that members of the community, they can't 23 identify the building as a credit union; and that 24 it's open to the public to serve their financial 46
1 needs. 2 And also, our current members, our 3 current account holders, they're having trouble 4 finding us, as well. Now, part of my job with the 5 credit union is to represent us at various community 6 events. So over the last year, I've been to the 7 Michigan '50's Festival and the Kid's Fair, for 8 example. And when I speak people in the community, 9 the typical response that I hear is, yeah, I've seen 10 that building. I didn't know it was a credit union 11 or I thought it was an office building. 12 And also, our current members, our 13 current account holders, we get phone calls from them 14 sometimes on their cell phone, trying to find our new 15 Novi branch. It's right there on 12 Mile, and they 16 can't find us. 17 I also wanted to mention that we 18 hosted the City of Novi employees at our building in 19 June. They had a meeting there. And as they arrived 20 in the morning, many of them said to me, you guys 21 need a better sign. We had trouble finding you this 22 morning. 23 And we really feel that we're 24 experiencing a hardship there, because we don't have 47
1 adequate signage. We really can't exist in this 2 location, if we can't grow the number of new 3 accounts; and we can't increase the number of new 4 accounts, if the people in the community can't even 5 identify our building as a credit union. 6 I also know that I need to address our 7 two driveway entrance markers. And I wanted to put 8 our site plan up here for you. We really feel that 9 it's critical for us to retain both of those driveway 10 entrance markers, for a matter of safety of drivers. 11 We have a really large building, and it sits on a 12 very large corner lot; there on the corner of 12 Mile 13 and Cadburry Drive. And the way it's positioned, 14 drivers can't see -- they won't be able to see a wall 15 sign from all directions. 16 They'll be able to see it heading west 17 on 12 Mile. But drivers coming east, if there was 18 not a driveway marker right here, they're going to be 19 past our driveway or almost past our driveway, before 20 they realize, oh, there's the building -- if they're 21 coming to see us for the first time. 22 And we have concerns that they'll hit 23 the brakes and not signal in an adequate time for the 24 cars behind them, and possibly cause an accident. 48
1 And we have seen some near-misses at that corner 2 before. 3 We have the same concerns here on 4 Cadburry Drive. As cars are heading south, they'll 5 be able to see our wall sign. However, cars that are 6 heading north, they're going to be almost past that 7 driveway, before they'll be able to see the wall 8 sign. And traffic on that street is getting busier 9 and busier every day. So we're concerned for 10 drivers' safety there, as well. 11 Also in your folder is a close-up of 12 the driveway marker on 12 Mile, as well as the 13 driveway on Cadburry Drive. 14 Do you guys have any questions for us, 15 any of us? 16 MEMBER GRONACHAN: No. 17 Is there anything else? You're all 18 set? 19 MS. DAILEY: All set. 20 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Is there anyone in 21 the audience that wishes to make comment in regards 22 to this case? 23 Seeing none, there were nine notices 24 sent; no approvals, no objections. 49
1 Building Department? 2 MR. AMOLSCH: No comment. 3 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Board Members? 4 Member Brennan? 5 MEMBER BRENNAN: Well, first of all, 6 let's be clear on some of our -- let's clarify that 7 driveway markers are two signs. They were two signs 8 when you asked for them a couple years ago; they're 9 two signs today. You're talking about a third 10 building sign here. 11 Who is Mr. Wineman? 12 MR. RINK: Can I address that, Member 13 Brennan? 14 Rob Wineman is a representative of 15 Etkin Equities. They were the developer -- owner and 16 developer of the property until Telcom acquired the 17 property and contracted Etkin Equities to develop the 18 property. 19 He submitted the request for variance 20 on the previous ground sign. 21 MEMBER BRENNAN: I ask that question, 22 because going back to those Minutes and the 23 discussion of the second ground sign, he was very 24 clear, there would be no other building facade 50
1 signage. Just as I note, secondly, are you telling 2 me that you cannot see -- the sign in front of the 3 building on 12 Mile, you cannot see that going 4 eastbound or westbound? 5 MS. DAILEY: You can see it going 6 westbound; you can't see it going eastbound. I'll 7 put the site map back on there. 8 Because the mock-up sign is here right 9 now -- that's where our sign is proposed -- and as 10 you're coming westbound, no problem -- sorry. The 11 sign will go here. As you're heading westbound, 12 there's no problem seeing it. As you're heading 13 eastbound, you're coming here, and you can't see it; 14 because the wall sign is here. It's just the unique 15 position of that building. 16 MS. PIPKIN: You can't center it on 17 the building because of the structure of the trees. 18 MEMBER BRENNAN: I have no other 19 questions. 20 Thanks. 21 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. 22 Any other Board Members? 23 Member Sanghvi? 24 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you, Madam 51
1 Chair. 2 There's no doubt in my mind -- and I 3 went looking for it, you can't see it from a distance 4 that this is the place where Telcom Credit Union is 5 located; until you get right there and see the ground 6 sign. So you do need something to identify where you 7 are located. I have no problem with that. 8 And as the Ordinance stands -- and you 9 already have two ground signs. My only suggestion to 10 you is perhaps you can do away without -- with one of 11 those ground signs, and have a big sign, which will 12 serve your purpose regardless; if you are agreeable 13 to that suggestion. 14 And I have no difficulty in supporting 15 your application. 16 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Anyone else? 17 Member Bauer? 18 MEMBER BAUER: I go by this at least 19 five times a day. I can see this going westbound. I 20 have no problem with it. I have no problem going 21 eastbound or going up Cadburry Drive, so I see no 22 reason to have the sign. 23 MS. DAILEY: Can I comment? 24 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Hang on. 52
1 Member Fischer, do you have any 2 comments? 3 MEMBER FISCHER: Sure. 4 I tend to agree more with Member 5 Sanghvi. I wasn't on the Board back when the other 6 two signs were put in place, so I don't know -- I 7 obviously read the Minutes, but I don't know the 8 history, the tone, that took place. 9 However, the only reason that I knew 10 that a building was there, was because I've been in 11 that area often, but I wasn't sure exactly what it 12 was. 13 And are you the only occupants of that 14 building and will you be? 15 MS. DAILEY: Yes. 16 MEMBER FISCHER: Okay. So it hasn't 17 changed from the last time you were in front of us. 18 I'm a little concerned with the size 19 of the sign. I could see maybe taking it down a 20 little bit. However, I have no general problem with 21 it. I see a need for it; I see a traffic need for 22 it. 23 Thank you, Madam Chair. 24 MEMBER GRONACHAN: I will put my 53
1 comments on record. 2 Given the fact that this is a corner 3 lot, and that there's several different ways to get 4 into this business, I feel that there is a need for 5 something. However, I'm not sure that you've done 6 enough homework to determine what that need is. 7 You tell us that you have clients that 8 can't find your building, and I don't know that this 9 sign is going to help it. We've had other business 10 come in front of us that are destination locations. 11 It's not Marshall Field's where you go shopping. You 12 have a purpose to get to the credit union. 13 And I'm a big marketing fan. I think 14 that it is important to market that location; and 15 then if they can't find it, then you've got another 16 problem. I feel that given the tone of this Board 17 this evening, I'm going to make a suggestion to you, 18 and you can do with it what you want. I think you 19 need to go back to the drawing table and do a little 20 more homework. 21 I'm not comfortable with this sign 22 that you're proposing to the solution to your 23 problem. If you had petitioners -- residents or 24 customers coming in saying, I cannot find your 54
1 building; I would suggest a petition, telling us 2 exactly how many people cannot locate this building 3 when they've tried to get there. 4 This sign, to me, only serves one 5 purpose, and you already have two ground signs. If 6 it wasn't designed properly at the time of the build 7 -- but then again, I'm not going to get into that, 8 okay, but if that was the problem, then maybe a 9 change needs to be done; even with one of those 10 ground signs. 11 And I'm not an architect, but I am a 12 resident and I do business in Novi; and I know how 13 frustrating it is not to be able to find something 14 when I'm going there. But once I find it, I'm going 15 to be done. I'm going to go back, I'm going to know 16 where it is. 17 So if you're trying to market in that 18 new client and they're trying to come in and find 19 your building, you've got comments; then you need to 20 address those comments as to why they're not finding 21 it; and I don't believe it's the signage. 22 My suggestion would be to table this 23 case, go back to the drawing board, and see what else 24 can be done; because I don't believe that this 55
1 particular sign is the sign that's going to answer 2 your problem. I think you need to look at the whole 3 package; including those two ground signs and that 4 sign. 5 I concur with Member Brennan and 6 Member Bauer, but I also understand from a business 7 aspect that there may be some safety concerns here 8 and some identification problems. 9 MS. DAILEY: Well, I guess, the way 10 I'm thinking is that when the building, you know, was 11 proposed to the City back a couple of years ago, I 12 know that we worked really hard with the Zoning Board 13 and with different members of the City offices, to 14 construct a building that would be beautiful and 15 would fit the Novi standards. 16 And we put our drive-through in the 17 back, which is maybe one reason people don't know 18 it's a financial institution. And so, in order to 19 bring a beautiful building to the City, you know, now 20 we're left with a building that doesn't shout, I'm a 21 financial institution. 22 And so our answer was to put a sign on 23 the front of the building; and I can understand that 24 -- because we're a corner lot, that maybe we're not 56
1 allowed all three of those signs; and maybe I need to 2 think about it further. But to me, our solution is 3 to put a sign, tell people you're a financial 4 institution; to serve the needs of the community. 5 And people in the community have no idea whose in 6 that building. They have said to me, are you the 7 only ones in that building. 8 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Again, I hear what 9 you're saying, but I think that you need to go back 10 and address this sign, in particular, to see if it's 11 going to help you get the most bang for your sign; 12 that's what I'm saying. 13 If it's identification that you're 14 having a problem with, then my recommendation would 15 be to go back and see if you can't -- and incorporate 16 those other two signs with it, as well, because I 17 don't think that you're going to get the support of 18 the Board this evening. I'm trying to save you a 19 total wash-out -- to go back and -- it's up to you. 20 I can call for a vote. 21 MS. DAILEY: No, it's -- 22 MEMBER GRONACHAN: This is what I'm 23 recommending that you do, in turns of going back and 24 addressing what you've heard from the Board Members 57
1 this evening; and seeing what else can be done to 2 help your business, in terms of a sign. I personally 3 don't like that sign there. I think it should be on 4 the front of the building. 5 MS. DAILEY: You know, we did consider 6 that, but there's a big huge tree. 7 MS. PIPKIN: There's several trees out 8 front that obstruct the view. 9 MEMBER GRONACHAN: But then again, if 10 that's the case, you need to present to this Board 11 why it can't go anyplace else. I mean, you've 12 presented these two types of pictures. I just feel 13 that more homework needs to be done. 14 So are you willing to table the case 15 -- 16 MS. PIPKIN: Yeah. 17 MEMBER GRONACHAN: -- or would you 18 like me to call -- 19 MS. PIPKIN: We'll table it. 20 MS. DAILEY; We'll table it. 21 MEMBER GRONACHAN: All those in favor 22 of tabling this case until March for review -- for a 23 second review, say aye? 24 BOARD MEMBERS: Aye. 58
1 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Any opposed? 2 Okay. We'll see you here next month. 3 MS. DAILEY: Thank you. 4 MEMBER FISCHER: Second case of the 5 month? 6 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Second, yes. 7 8 Okay. Let's call case number 05-004, 9 filed by Vipen Khetarpal, for residence at 46470 West 10 Ten Mile, located north of Ten Mile, between Taft and 11 Beck Road. 12 Is the Petitioner here? He's here ready to 13 go. 14 Mr. Khetarpal is requesting an 15 exception/special approval to allow a temporary use 16 for the continued use of an existing residential 17 building in the construction of a new detached 18 single-family home. 19 And you are? 20 MR. KHETARPAL: I'm Vipen Khetarpal. 21 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. 22 Would you please raise your right hand 23 and be sworn in by our secretary. 24 MEMBER BAUER: Do you solemnly swear 59
1 or affirm to tell the truth regarding case 05-004? 2 MR. KHETARPAL: I do. 3 MEMBER BAUER: Thank you, sir. 4 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. 5 You may proceed. 6 MR. KHETARPAL: My name is Vipen 7 Khetarpal, and my wife, Karen Khetarpal, is with me 8 here today. 9 We purchased this property, 46470 West 10 Ten Mile Road from Mrs. Flynn about five years ago. 11 The house we're right now living in is about 50 year- 12 old house, and it's kind of deteriorating right now. 13 And we plan to build a four-bedroom 14 house behind the current house. And in your 15 presentation, you have a picture -- I guess this is 16 how it works, yes. 17 So, currently, we live in this house 18 here. And this is a barn that is associated with 19 this property. So our plan is to build another house 20 back here. You have those detail prints with you, 21 and also plan layouts. And at the time once we -- 22 this house is built, we have a plan to get a 23 temporary occupancy and tear out this house and the 24 barn associated with that. 60
1 There's a small garage in this corner 2 here, which we intend to leave alone, because there's 3 a single wall adjacent to Mr. Ron's property, and 4 this -- and so we don't want to disturb that. We had 5 talked about this with the City when we purchased the 6 building in 2000; and also just recently with 7 Mr. Saven. 8 And so this is what we are proposing 9 right now. You also have a schedule on the first 10 page, our construction schedule, laying out our plan 11 on the right-hand side. So if you have any question, 12 I can answer them at this point. 13 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. 14 Is there anyone else in the audience 15 that wishes to make comment in the matter of this 16 case? 17 MR. WINMILLER(ph): My name is Ron 18 Winmiller. I live at 46400 West Ten Mile, the 19 property, I guess, would be immediately to the 20 southeast of Mr. Khetarpal's property. And I just 21 wanted to give my official support to what he's 22 proposing. He's been very up front about the whole 23 process from the very beginning and showing plans, 24 through the whole thing, so I just want to support 61
1 behind that. 2 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. 3 Thank you. 4 MS. PARDEL(ph): My name is Louise 5 Pardel. I live at 46480 West Ten Mile. Our house is 6 the closest to this house, and I have no problem with 7 them living in there while they're building a lovely 8 home. So I think that should be approved. 9 MEMBER GRONACHAN: All right. 10 Thank you very much. 11 MS. PARDEL: Uh-huh. 12 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Is there anyone 13 else? 14 Seeing none, there were 44 notices 15 mailed; one approval, one objection. 16 The one approval is from Dale and 17 Karen Martin at 24513 Sarah Flynn Court in Novi. 18 The one objection is from Paula A. 19 Muner(ph), at 24291 Homestead Court. Board Members, 20 it's a lengthy letter, but I think you need to hear 21 the high points. 22 Please be advised to my concerns 23 regarding case number 05-004, at 46470 West Ten Mile. 24 While I wish Mr. Khetarpal every success for 62
1 improving his property, I do have reservations about 2 granting a temporary use approval. 3 My concerns may not fall within the 4 jurisdiction of the ZBA, but I hope that they will be 5 taken into consideration -- and I'm going to 6 highlight. The concerns are as follows: 7 One, a barn-type building on the 8 property with broken windows and doors, as it is 9 unsecured. This building currently houses yard 10 waste. 11 Two, dead and dying trees along the 12 eastern lot line. The City Forestry Department 13 Ordinances for the care or diseased and/or dying 14 trees, has not been followed. On occasion, a tree 15 fell over on the lot line, damaging my fence. 16 The owner cut down one half of the 17 remaining tree, and left it in the adjacent shrub 18 bed. 19 Three, the property owner planted pine 20 seedlings on the east edge of his property in the 21 utility easement. 22 Four, there is a poor history of yard 23 waste removal. 24 Five, the outbuilding and the stow and 63
1 the stable has been unoccupied for least one year, 2 and not maintained on the perimeter. There's 3 overgrown shrubbery, trees and grass. 4 Six, and unkept water source on the 5 northeastern part of the property had running water 6 leaking into the surrounding soil for at least one 7 month. 8 Seven, there's an old gas pump on the 9 eastern edge of the property that might be an 10 environmental hazard. 11 Eight, there's an old aluminum 12 structure that abuts a barn on a neighbor's property 13 that appears to be structurally unsafe. 14 Nine, while proposing construction of 15 a new single-family home or a multiple family 16 dwelling -- that's a question? 17 Ten, will the current buildings on the 18 property be demolished? 19 And eleven, has the Zoning Board 20 inspected the condition of this property? 21 Building Department? 22 MR. SAVEN: I think we're going to 23 probably just address each individual issue, if we 24 can. I think you can probably get the surmise that 64
1 you are going to tear down the barn, all of the 2 accessory structures, with the exception of the one, 3 which is located predominately in the southeast 4 corner of the property? 5 MR. KHETARPAL: Right. 6 MR. SAVEN: Is that correct? 7 MR. KHETARPAL: Yes. 8 MR. SAVEN: The adjoining property. 9 You also have issues regarding trees 10 that are -- have been brought here before the Board 11 here, that they need to be cleaned up. 12 MR. KHETARPAL: The trees were removed 13 already. I mean, there was a tree inspection done, 14 and we have removed the trees already, I mean. 15 MR. SAVEN: Okay. 16 Other than that, I will just indicate 17 that in regards to the occupancy, should the Board 18 decide to approve this particular variance, grant 19 this variance, that the temporary Certificate of 20 Occupancy would be issued only upon those particular 21 requirements of the Board. 22 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. 23 Thank you. 24 Member Bauer? 65
1 MEMBER BAUER: This is the Flynn 2 stable? 3 MR. SAVEN: Yes. 4 MEMBER BAUER: That's going to make it 5 a separate -- 6 MR. SAVEN: It's going to make it 7 what? 8 MEMBER BAUER: -- from Sarah's place? 9 MR. SAVEN: This would be a separate 10 parcel of land. 11 MEMBER BRENNAN: This comes down. 12 MEMBER BAUER: Pardon? 13 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Soon as this is up. 14 Can you put your photo up again, 15 please. 16 MR. KHETARPAL: Sure. 17 MEMBER GRONACHAN: We just need 18 clarification of exactly what is being removed. 19 MR. KHETARPAL: Okay. 20 This is where we live right now. 21 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. 22 MR. KHETARPAL: This will come down, 23 and all this will come down, and this building, as 24 well. So the only thing that would remain is this 66
1 small garage here and the new house. 2 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. So for 3 clarification purposes, that is the southeast corner; 4 is that correct? 5 MR. KHETARPAL: This is the -- yes. 6 MEMBER GRONACHAN: The southeast 7 corner? 8 MR. SAVEN: Yes. 9 MEMBER GRONACHAN: So -- well, I was 10 just going to (unintelligible) there's only building 11 left, and that is in the southeast corner. The rest 12 of the buildings on the property are all going to be 13 demolished and removed. 14 MR. KHETARPAL: Uh-huh. 15 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. 16 I think Member Sanghvi was next. 17 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yeah, my question was 18 the clarification, really, that what we're discussing 19 here is that these people be allowed to stay in this 20 house while their new house is being built; is that 21 correct? 22 MR. SAVEN: That's correct. 23 MEMBER SANGHVI: The rest of the 24 things (unintelligible), extraneous to the issue we 67
1 are facing. So sticking to the point, the issue is 2 how safe is it for these people to live in that 3 house; the second issue, is do you have any young 4 children more likely to be hurt while the 5 construction is going on. It's only a matter of 6 safety. 7 With those two answers, 8 (unintelligible) I have no problem in giving them a 9 variance so that they can continue to reside in their 10 own home. 11 Thank you. 12 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Thank you. 13 Member Bauer? 14 Member Brennan, I'm sorry. 15 MEMBER BRENNAN: I -- this is a 16 consistent request from other cases. I remember two 17 on Beck Road just last fall, exact same situation; 18 and I see no reason why not to grant the temporary 19 use for them. 20 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. 21 Member Fischer? 22 MEMBER FISCHER: How far apart is the 23 current house from the one that you're going to be 24 building? 68
1 MR. KHETARPAL: You know, I did not 2 get a scale on that dimension, but let me see. I can 3 give you a rough idea here. The scale is about one 4 inch to 30 feet. 5 MR. SAVEN: 30 feet. 6 MR. KHETARPAL: So -- 7 MR. SAVEN: 86.77 feet. 8 MEMBER FISCHER: Okay. 9 Along what Member Sanghvi said, are 10 there any concerns that the Building Department does 11 see? 12 MEMBER SAVEN: Only from the fact that 13 the barn. The barn is in such a dilapidated shape, 14 that I would ask that that be taken down immediately, 15 prior to the construction, or that portion of the 16 barn. 17 MR. KHETARPAL: Yes, the back portion 18 that you mentioned the last time. 19 MR. SAVEN: Correct. 20 MR. KHETARPAL: Because that may come 21 close to the new driveway. So we might take, 22 temporarily, some of this out in the back here. This 23 is deteriorating quite a bit, the roof or the ceiling 24 is pretty much gone. This is the closest part to the 69
1 new house, so. 2 MEMBER FISCHER: When were you 3 planning on demolishing those? 4 MR. KHETARPAL: Well, I didn't have 5 plans to demolish in my plan right now, but my plan 6 originally was to demolish everything when we moved 7 in. But per your suggestion, I could start it first 8 before digging the ground. I mean, I could combined 9 that contractor to contractor to demolish this back 10 end first, before digging the ground. 11 MEMBER FISCHER: That's what I'd like 12 to see. 13 Thank you, Madam Chair. 14 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. 15 Anything else? 16 Member Sanghvi? 17 MEMBER SANGHVI: Well, then with all 18 that clarified, Madam Chair, may I make a Motion to 19 request -- to grant the request of the -- for the 20 temporary use of the current residence, providing the 21 unsafe structures are removed, prior to the new 22 construction. 23 MEMBER BRENNAN: Support. 24 MEMBER GRONACHAN: It's been moved and 70
1 seconded. 2 Is there any further discussion? 3 Member Fischer? 4 MEMBER FISCHER: Should we put a 5 timetable or until the Certificate of Occupancy is 6 obtained on that? 7 MR. KHETARPAL: Well, when we go for 8 building permit, we'll put that in writing, if 9 necessary. 10 MR. SAVEN: TCO would be necessary, 11 TCO is in place. 12 MEMBER FISCHER: Okay. 13 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Any further 14 discussion on the Motion? 15 Seeing none, Gail, would you please 16 call the roll. 17 GAIL BACKUS: Member Sanghvi? 18 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes. 19 GAIL BACKUS: Member Bauer? 20 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 21 GAIL BACKUS: Member Brennan? 22 MEMBER BRENNAN: Yes. 23 GAIL BACKUS: Member Gronachan? 24 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Yes. 71
1 GAIL BACKUS: Member Fischer? 2 MEMBER FISCHER: Aye. 3 GAIL BACKUS: Motion passes five to 4 zero. 5 MR. KHETARPAL: Thank you very much. 6 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Thank you. 7 MR. KHETARPAL: Thank you for your 8 time. 9 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Good luck. 10 11 Okay. We'll call our last case, 05- 12 005, filed by Robert Hayes for City of Novi for 27852 13 West Park Drive, located at the northeast corner of 14 West Park and 12 Mile for construction of a radio 15 antenna. 16 Good evening. 17 And you are? 18 MR. COBERT(ph): My name is Bryan 19 Cobert. I'm an engineer for the City of Novi. I'm 20 here on behalf of Robert Hayes. 21 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. Would you 22 raise your right hand and be sworn in by our 23 secretary. 24 MEMBER BAUER: Do you solemnly swear 72
1 or affirm to tell the truth regarding case, 05-005? 2 MR. COBERT: I do. 3 MEMBER BAUER: Thank you. 4 MEMBER GRONACHAN: You may proceed. 5 MR. COBERT: I'll make it very brief 6 to you guys. 7 This antenna will serve the proposed 8 water booster station. We're proposing it at the 9 northeast corner of 12 Mile and West Park Drive. The 10 antenna is necessary to (unintelligible) the 11 communications between the DPW garage and the booster 12 station, so we can regulate control pressures to 13 serve the southern and western portions of the City. 14 The variance is required because when 15 we acquired the parcel, as part of the West Park 16 Drive construction, at the time -- it was several 17 years ago -- things have changed. There's even an 18 underground booster station, which would not make us 19 need the variances that we thought weren't necessary, 20 now we need them. 21 So the diluted parcel that we have, 22 the requires the antenna variance. 23 And that's all I have. 24 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. 73
1 There were -- there's obviously no one 2 left in the audience to speak this evening. 3 There were 20 notices; no approvals, 4 no objections. 5 Building Department? 6 MR. SAVEN: First of all, it's an 7 honor to introduce this young man. He's been quite 8 an asset to the City, as far as engineering 9 developments. He's actively involved in a lot of 10 public projects that are just phenomenal what he goes 11 through. And he's here tonight trying to put 12 something together. 13 This is dealing with an antenna. The 14 property line is what it's all about. The height of 15 that antenna is 20 feet. The issue in regards to 16 where its location is, that's the reason why it's 17 here tonight. 18 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. 19 Thank you. 20 Board Members? 21 Member Fischer? 22 MEMBER FISCHER: First and foremost, 23 are you a Michigan State fan or -- 24 MR. COBERT: I'm a graduate of 74
1 Michigan Technological University, so I sit on the 2 fence. 3 MEMBER FISCHER: Given the 4 Petitioner's reputation, and the fact -- looking 5 through the materials, it can't be lowered to remain 6 effective in communication. It's necessary for DPW 7 to function. 8 So I have no problem with this case in 9 front of us. 10 If there's enough nods, I'd like to 11 make a Motion that in case number 05-005, filed by 12 Robert Hayes, that we grant the Petitioner's request 13 due to showing practical difficulty, because the 14 height cannot be lowered to remain effective. 15 MEMBER BAUER: Second. 16 MEMBER GRONACHAN: It's been moved and 17 seconded. 18 Is there any further discussion on the 19 Motion? 20 Gail, please call the roll. 21 GAIL BACKUS: Member Fischer? 22 MEMBER FISCHER: Aye. 23 GAIL BACKUS: Member Bauer? 24 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 75
1 GAIL BACKUS: Member Brennan? 2 MEMBER BRENNAN: Yes. 3 GAIL BACKUS: Member Gronachan? 4 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Yes. 5 GAIL BACKUS: And Member Sanghvi? 6 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes. 7 GAIL BACKUS: Motion passes five to 8 zero. 9 MR. COBERT: Thank you. 10 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Your variance has 11 been granted. 12 Congratulations. 13 14 Okay. That concludes our case load. 15 We do have two other matters this 16 evening. 17 One, Mr. Gilliam provided us two 18 alternatives for us last month, and the Board 19 accepted Alternative One, the modification of 30 days 20 for the removal of the approved signs. The signs 21 must be in good and maintained condition. If denied, 22 the sign needs to be removed within five days. 23 That amendment of Rules and Procedures 24 will be placed on this evening's agenda for approval; 76
1 and become a permanent part of our Rules and 2 Procedures. 3 MEMBER BRENNAN: Move to support. 4 MEMBER FISCHER: Second. 5 MEMBER GRONACHAN: It's been moved and 6 seconded. 7 Is there any further discussion on 8 this amendment? 9 Seeing none, Gail, please call the 10 roll. 11 GAIL BACKUS: Who seconded? 12 MEMBER FISCHER: I seconded Member 13 Brennan's Motion. 14 GAIL BACKUS: Thank you. 15 Member Brennan? 16 MEMBER BRENNAN: Yes. 17 GAIL BACKUS: Member Fischer? 18 MEMBER FISCHER: Aye. 19 GAIL BACKUS: Member Bauer? 20 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 21 GAIL BACKUS: Member Gronachan? 22 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Yes. 23 GAIL BACKUS: And Member Sanghvi? 24 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes. 77
1 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. 2 It's been approved. 3 Alan, hopefully we made your job 4 easier. 5 MR. AMOLSCH; It will, thank you. 6 MEMBER GRONACHAN: All right. 7 Our last member or information for 8 other matters, I understand Harold's Frame Shop has 9 been resolved; is that correct? 10 MR. AMOLSCH: The -- Harold's Frame 11 Shop actually called me and said that they corrected 12 the problem. They set the timer to the correct time, 13 so I don't know if that's true or not. 14 MEMBER FISCHER: Don't worry. I'll 15 keep my eye on them. I promise. 16 MEMBER GRONACHAN: We'll put our 17 Secret Squirrel -- we'll put Secret Squirrel on duty 18 here, you know. 19 MR. AMOLSCH: I'll check on my way 20 home, too. 21 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Okay. 22 Is there anything else? 23 Then I would -- 24 MR. SAVEN: I just want to 78
1 congratulate this young lady for her first meeting. 2 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Yes. 3 Gail, congratulations. You did a 4 good job. 5 Denise, does that mean we're not 6 seeing you around any more? 7 DENISE ANDERSON: This is it. 8 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Oh, when we're 9 bringing in checks for our property taxes. 10 DENISE ANDERSON: Or your water bill. 11 We take those, too. 12 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Thank you again. 13 MEMBER BAUER: Good luck to you. 14 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Move to -- 15 MEMBER FISCHER: I make a Motion to 16 adjourn. 17 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Those in favor? 18 MR. GILLIAM: I -- 19 MEMBER FISCHER: I'll withdraw my 20 Motion to adjourn. 21 MR. GILLIAM: I just wanted to pay 22 this group a compliment, and I think it comes 23 indirectly both the Planning Commission and also the 24 Planning Department. 79
1 Last week, at the Planning Commission 2 meeting, there was a Public Hearing in regards to a 3 proposed amendment to the City Sign Ordinance, 4 regarding multiple tenant signage in all non- 5 residential districts. And without boring you all 6 the details, the proposed amendment did receive a 7 negative recommendation from the Planning Commission; 8 and is on it's way up to Council. 9 But part of the justification and part 10 of the thinking from the Planning Commission was that 11 the Zoning Board and the City Staff worked very, very 12 hard with all the requests for sign approvals and 13 sign variances that come. In fact, I think the 14 Planning staff and the Planning Commission recognized 15 that there's really a disproportionate share of your 16 case load deals with sign variances. 17 And one of the reasons that they had 18 sent the negative recommendation to Council, as far 19 as that particular amendment is concerned, is because 20 they feel their needs to be a broader review and 21 broader amendments made to the City Sign Ordinance, 22 to possibly reduce your case load. 23 So again, indirectly, I think that's a 24 compliment to you, and I would compliment you any way 80
1 for the work that you do on the sign variances, and 2 everything else, as well. 3 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Well, thank you 4 very much. We appreciate that. We're kind of 5 partial to our City staff and our -- having our right 6 hand or actually our left hand, our answer people. 7 So thank you. We appreciate that. We'll be watching 8 Council. 9 And I'm sure that some of us who had 10 interviews let the Council know loud and clear, that 11 the number one thing is signage, signage, signage, so 12 -- it's not like we're control freaks, we just want 13 to carry on the right way. 14 So thank you. 15 Anything else? 16 All right. 17 I hereby adjourn this meeting until 18 next month. 19 Thank you. 20 (The meeting adjourned 21 at 8:56 p.m.) 22 - - - - - - 23 24 81
1 1 C__E__R__T__I__F__I__C__A__T__E_ 2 3 I do hereby certify that I have 4 recorded stenographically the proceedings had and testimony 5 taken in the above-entitled matter at the time and place 6 hereinbefore set forth, and that the foregoing is a full, 7 true and correct transcript of proceedings had in the 8 above-entitled matter; and I do further certify that the 9 foregoing transcript, consisting of (80) typewritten pages, 10 is a true and correct transcript of my said stenograph 11 notes. 12 13 14 ________________________________________ 15 Machelle R. Billingslea-Moore, Reporter. 16 17 2-10-05 18 Date 19 20 21 22 23 82
|