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Proceedings had and testimony taken in the matters of ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS at City of Novi, 45175 West Ten Mile Road, Novi, Michigan, on Tuesday, September 18, 2001.

Laverne Reinke, chairman
Frank Brennan
Sarah Gray
Cynthia Gronachan
Gerald Bauer
Siddharth Sanghvi

Don Saven, building department
Thomas Schultz, city attorney
Sarah Marchioni, building department

Machelle R. Billingslea-Moore, Certified Shorthand Reporter

1 MR. CHAIRMAN: At this time, I'll call

2 the meeting to order.

3 Madam Secretary, would you call the

4 roll.

5 SARAH MARCHIONI: Member Bauer?

6 MEMBER BAUER: Present.

7 SARAH MARCHIONI: Member Brennan?


9 SARAH MARCHIONI: Member Fannon is an

10 excused absence.

11 Member Gray?

12 MEMBER GRAY: Present.

13 SARAH MARCHIONI: Member Gronachan?


15 SARAH MARCHIONI: Member Reinke?


17 SARAH MARCHIONI: Member Sanghvi?


19 MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay. We have -- one

20 of our members is absent this evening, but our alternate

21 is here, so we do have a full Board. All cases that are

22 heard this evening will be final.

23 The Zoning Board of Appeals is an

24 empowerment by the City Charter, to hear appeals









1 seeking a variance to the application of the Novi

2 Zoning Ordinance.

3 It takes a vote of at least four

4 members to approve a variance request, and a vote of

5 the majority of the members present to deny a

6 variance.

7 The Board consists of six members, and

8 we have a full board, so any and all decisions will

9 be final.

10 Okay. Rules of Conduct that we

11 operate our meeting: Number 1, is each person

12 desiring to address the Board shall state his or her

13 name and address. Individual persons shall be

14 allowed five minutes to address the Board, an

15 extension of time may be granted at the discretion of

16 the Chairman. There shall be no questioning by the

17 audience of persons addressing the Board; however,

18 Board members may question that person with

19 recognition by the Chairperson.

20 No person shall be allowed to address

21 the Board more than once, unless permission is

22 granted by the Chairman, and one spokesman for a

23 group attending shall be allowed ten minutes to

24 address the Board.









1 Do we have any corrections to the

2 agenda this evening? I think we have --


4 MR. CHAIRMAN: Go ahead, Sarah.

5 SARAH MARCHIONI: Number 3 has

6 withdrawn their application. They will agree to the

7 sale in April.


9 Any other additions or corrections?

10 SARAH MARCHIONI: No. Everything else

11 is fine.

12 MR. CHAIRMAN: Hearing none, I move

13 for approval of the agenda as amended.

14 MEMBER BAUER: So moved.

15 MEMBER GRAY: Second.

16 MR. CHAIRMAN: All those in favor,

17 signify by saying Aye.


19 MR. CHAIRMAN: Opposed?

20 Okay. The Minutes from the August

21 14th meeting, are there any corrections or additions

22 to the Minutes?

23 Hearing none, the Chair will entertain

24 a Motion to approve the Minutes.











3 MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay. It's been moved

4 and second to approve the Minutes from the August

5 14th meeting. All those in favor, signify by saying

6 aye?


8 MR. CHAIRMAN: Opposed?

9 Motion carried.

10 Okay. At this time, the public

11 remarks section of the meeting -- if there's anyone

12 in the audience who would like to speak to the Board,

13 not pertaining to issues before us, because issues

14 before us, we'd like to address at that time.

15 Dr. Sanghvi?


17 I'd like to a moment of your time to

18 make an announcement that Novi -- Novi City, Chamber

19 of Commerce of Novi, Novi School District, and most

20 of the Civic organizations of the City are getting

21 together and planning a memorial service, plus unity

22 service on Saturday, September 22nd at 9:30 a.m., at

23 the Novi City Hall.

24 And I would like to invite not only









1 all of my colleagues here on the Board, but all the

2 citizens of the City to come and join us. We will be

3 praying for the victims of this -- which is nothing

4 short of a holocaust -- and also, declaring our unity

5 and support to the President and of our Armed Forces

6 in whatever they might decide to do in the future.

7 Thank you, sir.

8 MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you.

9 Okay. We'll close the public remarks

10 section. We'll call the first case.

11 CASE NUMBER: 01-059, filed by Taylor

12 Scott Architects representing The Great Indoors.

13 Are they -- would you please step

14 forward.

15 MR. CHAMBERLAIN: My name is Rick

16 Chamberlain. I work for Sears Roebuck and Company.

17 My address is 3310 Herriot Court, Garland, Texas.

18 Chris Goble was unable to attend this

19 evening due to the aircraft shortages, so I'm filling

20 in for him.

21 MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay. Present your

22 case, please.

23 MR. CHAMBERLAIN: Yes, sir.

24 MR. CHAIRMAN: Oh, I'm sorry, you need









1 to be sworn in by our secretary. I'm getting ahead

2 of things, a little bit.

3 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Raise your right

4 hand.

5 Do you swear or affirm that the

6 testimony that you're about to give in this matter is

7 the truth?

8 MR. CHAMBERLAIN: Yes, ma'am.


10 MR. CHAMBERLAIN: We're here this

11 evening seeking a variance for an illuminated sign

12 inside the window of the Starbucks Coffee House at

13 The Great Indoors.

14 That's it. It's been before the Board

15 before.

16 MR. CHAIRMAN: Is there anyone in the

17 audience that would like to have input into this

18 case?

19 Hearing none, building department?

20 MR. SAVEN: This was before the Board,

21 and you asked them to have them come back and have a

22 further discussion on this particular matter.

23 As you can recall, the Great In --

24 associated with the Great Indoors, additional signs,









1 beyond the Great Indoors was allowed to have based

2 upon their signage, and it's an illuminated sign.

3 It's one which was asked to come back before the

4 Board.

5 MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay. There were 16

6 notices sent. We received no approvals or no

7 objections.

8 Board members, comments or

9 discussions?

10 MEMBER BRENNAN: Mr. Chairman?

11 MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Brennan.

12 MEMBER BRENNAN: It's unfortunate with

13 the circumstances going on in this Country today,

14 that Starbucks couldn't have the right people here.

15 But at the same time, we've got a job to do. And

16 when this case was tabled a month ago, we asked

17 Starbucks to come back and tell us why they had to

18 have this.

19 You haven't told us that, and maybe

20 you don't know why.

21 There is another Starbucks in this

22 same general location. They don't have this

23 illuminated sign. And we can only grant a variance

24 when there's been evidence of issue, of problems.









1 This store hasn't even been open yet, as far as I

2 know. And while I -- my initial reaction is to

3 suggest that we deny this, I'd suggest that we'd

4 offer Starbucks and option of bringing this back

5 again when things are in a more settled state.

6 We have to have some evidence that

7 suggests that you have to have this. The other store

8 that's already in that general area, does not have

9 it; and I would have expected you to come up tonight,

10 and say -- give us the reasons why we do have to have

11 it; and you're probably not in a position to do that.

12 MR. CHAMBERLAIN: I will, if I may

13 address again.


15 MR. CHAMBERLAIN: Now, the Starbucks

16 store that is part of the mall, I believe it is, is a

17 company owned facility, where this is a franchise

18 business. So it is a different -- it is a different

19 organization.

20 The Starbucks in our -- inside of The

21 Great Indoors, will operate different hours, than our

22 store will. We actually open the doors at our

23 Starbucks two hours prior to the store opening of the

24 Great Indoors, serving customers and any customers









1 that might stop by earlier before we open the doors

2 up.

3 So we would like to have that sign.

4 You know, 7:30 in the morning, 8:00 in the morning,

5 it could be dark several times, you know, throughout

6 the year, so we'd like to have that light, or that

7 sign illuminated.

8 MR. CHAIRMAN: Is there an entrance

9 way right by that sign?

10 MR. CHAMBERLAIN: Yes, sir.

11 MEMBER BRENNAN: It's not any wall

12 sign already lit?

13 MR. CHAMBERLAIN: For The Great

14 Indoors?

15 MEMBER BRENNAN: No, for Starbucks.

16 MR. CHAMBERLAIN: This would be the

17 only sign for Starbucks, facing the outside of the

18 building. There's a sign inside, of course, but it

19 faces inside of the sale store.

20 MR. CHAIRMAN: I have a problem with

21 this that -- in that type of sign, an illuminated

22 sign, which we're -- our Ordinance prohibits. I have

23 a problem with it being that type of sign, and I have

24 -- it's not really identified -- it's like a separate









1 identify of itself, but it's part of a building,

2 business location. And really -- and everybody looks

3 at it, it's an accessory to the Great Indoors, is the

4 way that I look at it.

5 And I think we're trying to go too

6 much, too far in the way our Ordinance has been set-

7 up to go in this direction with it. I think there's

8 maybe something needed there, but I really don't

9 think myself that this is the answer.

10 MR. CHAMBERLAIN: I mean, is it the

11 size of the sign? I mean is the size of the sign

12 something you're -- I mean, this sign is 17 inches in

13 diameter.

14 MEMBER BRENNAN: The variance request

15 is -- with respect to an illuminated sign inside the

16 building.


18 MEMBER BRENNAN: That's what we're

19 dealing with.

20 And again, if there was some evidence

21 to demonstrate that you couldn't draw people in

22 because they couldn't find the facility, then we'd

23 have some compassion. But since it's a new

24 operation. It's not even open for business, and









1 you're seeking a variance. It may be a bit

2 premature. If the store can be opened and

3 operational and demonstrates that you can't get

4 people in because they can't find it, that's a

5 different set of circumstances. But at this point,

6 we have nothing to base any hardship on.

7 MR. CHAIRMAN: People are going to

8 have to be drawn to come, to walk in and even see

9 that sign. And that's why I say it is, to have it

10 illuminated two hours before the store opens, is not

11 going to really be a benefit, unless somebody is at

12 Fountain Walk or going to Fountain Walk already.

13 That's where I have a little bit of a

14 problem. Because basically, you're advertising to a

15 parking lot, which to me, don't have to draw itself.

16 Ms. Gray?

17 MEMBER GRAY: Mr. Reinke, thank you.

18 I've been to several of the other

19 Starbucks in the vicinity over the weekend, over the

20 last couple weekends, even the one at 14 Mile and

21 Novi Road, facing Commerce Township. Does not have

22 an illuminated sign. I'm really hard-pressed to find

23 on this one even a reason to grant the variance,

24 because all it does is face the expressway.









1 I understand that this is going to be

2 a coffee franchise or a shop that is going to

3 primarily serve that portion of Fountain Walk. The

4 drive-through, the walk-in trade, is just not going

5 to be there by the very nature of where they're

6 citing this. I just don't see a need. And I feel

7 that whatever hardship there is, is self-imposed, and

8 I just -- I'm having a real hard time trying to

9 figure out why we should grant this variance.

10 Thank you, sir.

11 MR. CHAIRMAN: Board members, further

12 comments or discussions?

13 MEMBER SANGHVI: Mr. Chairman, may I

14 make a Motion.

15 MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Sanghvi.

16 MEMBER SANGHVI: That in the case of

17 Case number 01-059, the applicant's request be denied

18 because of any lack of hardship.

19 MEMBER BAUER: Second.

20 MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay. It's been moved

21 and seconded. Petitioner's request be denied.

22 Any further discussion on the Motion?

23 MR. SCHULTZ: Practical difficulty of

24 any hardship bearing and non-use variance.









1 MR. CHAIRMAN: Anything --

2 MEMBER SANGHVI: No problem.

3 MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay. Madam Secretary,

4 would you call the roll, please.

5 SARAH MARCHIONI: Member Sanghvi?


7 SARAH MARCHIONI: Member Bauer?


9 SARAH MARCHIONI: Member Brennan?


11 SARAH MARCHIONI: Member Gray?


13 SARAH MARCHIONI: Member Gronachan?


15 SARAH MARCHIONI: Member Reinke?


17 Sir, your variance request has been

18 denied.

19 MR. CHAMBERLAIN: Thank you.


21 MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay, next case.

22 CASE NUMBER: 01-067, filed by Wayne

23 Miller, representing Fountain Walk is requesting

24 several sign variances for banners, ground portal









1 sign and advertising signs uniformity.

2 Have we -- okay, go ahead.

3 MR. MILLER: Not since the two months

4 ago. I don't think it's still valid, might be.

5 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Do you swear that

6 -- I'm sorry. Do you swear or affirm that the

7 testimony you're about to give in this matter is the

8 truth?

9 MR. MILLER: I do.


11 Could you please state your name for

12 the record?

13 MR. MILLER: My name is name is Wayne

14 Miller, and I am with JPRA Architects. We are the

15 architects for the Fountain Walk project.

16 First, let me say thank you very much

17 for having us on the agenda this evening.

18 I hope you have all had opportunity to

19 review the submittal. It pretty much says everything

20 that we wish to talk about tonight. We have three

21 requests, one regarding banners; one regarding for

22 the lack of any other description, a ground sign; and

23 the third request is for advertising sign uniformity.

24 Banners, given the nature of the









1 project, the unusual festivity that's being portrayed

2 in the building design and the colors, and the

3 obligation or the charge to the individual tenants,

4 we are also -- a charge for the tenants to enhance

5 the project by designing unique store fronts, the

6 owner wishes to employ also some graphic -- I should

7 emphasize, non-advertising, graphic banners that can

8 be displayed on light poles around the buildings, as

9 well as in the pedestrian concourse.

10 Are we okay, here?


12 MR. MILLER: Okay.

13 And if we can look at the large one

14 where, the banners are going to consist of three

15 types. Number one, here, occurs in the pedestrian

16 concourse at these points. The second banner, which

17 is also a light pole banner, occurs in this east/west

18 drive-through area. And the fourth(sic) type of

19 banner, this one, is also on light poles, and occurs

20 around the building's perimeter.

21 The owners intent is, again, as I

22 said, to add a more festive flare; also, offering an

23 element of utilizing different kinds of themes for

24 seasonal -- I don't want to say advertising, but









1 seasonal descriptions.

2 For instance, at Christmas, pine

3 trees; at Thanksgiving, pumpkins and jack-o-lanterns

4 and wheat stalks, and things of that nature. It also

5 offers an opportunity to the City of Novi to work

6 with the owners in providing banners that advertise

7 things that are going on in the City of Novi. If you

8 have an art fair or if you have a freedom festival

9 during the July 4th holidays, etc. That in essence,

10 is our arguments for allowing the banners.

11 Do we wish to proceed on all --

12 MR. CHAIRMAN: Yeah, why don't we go

13 through the whole presentation and then we can go at

14 it case by case.

15 MR. MILLER: Okay.

16 The second request if for a ground

17 portal sign, and let me back up to the site plan. At

18 the southend of the site, right here, is a valet

19 drop-off. It's the main south entrance to the

20 pedestrian concourse, which is -- runs this way and

21 east/west, between those four buildings deemed as

22 covered mall buildings.

23 At that entrance, we have an

24 architectural feature, and that architectural feature









1 is comprised of two limestone columns, with a metal

2 trellis work between them. On that metal trellis

3 work, we wish to apply a Fountain Walk sign with a

4 logo that is a sunburst. The sign, itself, will be a

5 channel-type letter. It will be lit from behind.

6 The sunburst element on top will also be of metal

7 construction, painted, and will have some intrical

8 lighting in it, so that it glows. From a distance,

9 you would not see visible light, but you would see a

10 glowing of that sunburst element.

11 We are looking to that construction

12 size, its height, and area, in keeping with the scale

13 of the rest of the complex. We feel that it provides

14 a visual orientation, so that there is a -- an

15 identifier at the southend of the site or at the

16 valet drop-off, so that there could be a orderly

17 traffic flow into and away from that area.

18 The third request we are making is for

19 a variance to the uniformity of signs. The Ordinance

20 requires that all signs be of a common style. If we

21 are to encourage the tenants of the project to

22 contribute to the overall theme of the project by

23 designing and creating their own storefronts, it

24 seems that we are limiting them by saying they can









1 only use one type of sign.

2 For instance, only pinned off letters

3 or only channel signs or only rice-way type signs.

4 It seems to us that that is a very limiting factor,

5 and we would like to request a variance to the

6 Ordinance to promote the opportunity for a creative

7 variation from tenant to tenant.

8 That's our presentation at this time.

9 MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thank you very

10 much.

11 Is there anyone in the audience who

12 would like to have input into this case?

13 Building department?

14 MR. SAVEN: Just a couple of issues.

15 Number one, we're dealing with a height of a sign

16 that is dealing with the larger ground pole sign that

17 has the Fountain Walk issues, and the sunburst

18 effect, that is what we're looking at, as far as

19 height is concerned.

20 And as you are aware, The Great

21 Indoors already has what's called a block lettering,

22 individual block lettering on that particular

23 project. So anything that deals from that block

24 lettering from this point on, will require that they









1 seek a variance, if there was a difference in the

2 style of lettering.

3 MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you.

4 There were 19 notices sent. We

5 received no approvals or no objections were sent

6 back.

7 Board members, comments or

8 discussions.

9 MEMBER BAUER: Are we going to go on

10 it one at a time?

11 MR. CHAIRMAN: Yeah, I think that we

12 should. I mean, that way we kind of keep things on a

13 current or uniform poll here.

14 MEMBER BRENNAN: Mr. Chairman?

15 MR. CHAIRMAN: Yes, Mr. Brennan.

16 MEMBER BRENNAN: Again, as we dealt

17 with this project a couple months back with the

18 signage for the traffic flow, this is a unique

19 development. It's unfortunate that the city couldn't

20 develop zoning or a special zoning to address this

21 unique development, so we're going to have to handle

22 them here, and deal with the zoning laws that are

23 currently in place.

24 I understand and I appreciate the









1 theme that the complex is trying to present, and

2 they've kind of addressed my most concern with the

3 banners, is that they will not be used for

4 advertisement; that they are a colorful seasonal,

5 perhaps even, event based; and are not meant as an

6 advertisement.

7 My thoughts on the portal sign is

8 along the same lines. It's in-line with the theme of

9 this development, and while we are very restrictive

10 in the number of signs, this is a huge development.

11 We've already approved a large sign from the 12 Mile

12 entrance; and this is a I-96 visible sign.

13 The last item, that being, the

14 uniformity of the signage. Again, there's a wide-

15 range of potential tenants in here. I guess my only

16 concern is that while -- if we give you some slack on

17 the uniformity issue, I guess I'd ask if there's any

18 type of controls that the Petitioner can have in

19 place that keeps 60 or 70 or 80 different sign

20 requests coming down the road.

21 MR. MILLER: Uh-huh.

22 MEMBER BRENNAN: If we can look at

23 some sort of uniformity, at least, in size, while

24 giving the various companies and sponsors the liberty









1 of developing something unique. But you know, if we

2 just open up the flood works and say, "Yeah, you can

3 do what you want," then we're going to be dealing

4 with a bundle of sign requests, sign variance

5 requests. So that's my thoughts.

6 I don't have any problem with the

7 banners. It's part of the theme. You limit it to no

8 advertising. The portal sign is from the entrance

9 view from I-96, I have no issue with at all; and I'd

10 like to get some compromise on maybe sign size with

11 some liberties on design.

12 MR. CHAIRMAN: Thanks, Mr. Brennan.

13 I guess I'd like to follow the kind of

14 format that Mr. Brennan started out here. I'd like

15 to really kind of express in general all three of the

16 groups, and then when we get down to where we felt we

17 covered all discussion that we need to, we'll vote on

18 them individually.

19 Okay. Board Members, further comments

20 or discussions?


22 MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Bauer?

23 MEMBER BAUER: On request A, the

24 banners. This has come up many times throughout the









1 City. This Board has never given banners to anyone,

2 12 Oaks, West Oaks, nowhere. And I cannot see where

3 we can do so at this point.

4 Onto the ground portal sign, B, looks

5 very nice.

6 And C, on this letting you take care

7 of a -- signs for the individual tenants, I don't

8 really think this Board can do so, without seeing

9 those signs. We are then giving you our power, and I

10 don't think the City would like that too much.

11 That's my personal opinion.

12 MR. MILLER: Understood.

13 MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay. Other board

14 members?

15 Mr. Sanghvi?

16 MEMBER SANGHVI: Well, as far as the

17 banners are concerned, I know they have never been

18 done before, but I have no particular problem -- I

19 don't believe that something which hasn't been done

20 before, cannot be done. There's lots of things in

21 life that happen in the history of mankind, where

22 things have not been done before and have been done

23 become a routine matter now. So that doesn't bother

24 me. So that's fine.









1 I have no argument about the portal

2 sign.

3 But I echo my fellow members -- I'm

4 not on? I thought I was, sorry.

5 And as far as this individual signs

6 which stores are concerned, I think I believe 100

7 percent that I don't think we are even permitted to

8 discuss giving our authority away to anybody, let

9 alone giving it. So I don't think that is really on

10 the cards.

11 MR. MILLER: Okay.

12 Let me, if I may -- if this is an

13 appropriate time, I'm not sure.

14 MR. CHAIRMAN: Well, let us finish our

15 discussion up on this end, and then we can maybe have

16 some feedback go back and forth.

17 Ms. Gray?

18 MEMBER GRAY: Are you through,

19 Dr. Sanghvi?


21 MEMBER GRAY: I have a problem with

22 the banners. When I look at where they're going to

23 be placed, all I see is clutter. I think the three

24 different types of light poles, while they may be









1 appropriate, in the -- around the building, then I'm

2 wondering, well, what are you going to do for light

3 poles out in the parking lots? Are you going to come

4 back and ask for banners there?

5 If you say no advertising, I think you

6 should stick with no advertising, even if it would be

7 for some kind of City function. We can advertise

8 ourself. I don't like the idea of the banners. I

9 think they're just too cluttered in -- in this many

10 throughout the diagram where you show it.

11 As far as the portal sign goes, I like

12 the idea of having it. I realize it's fairly large,

13 but these are huge, huge buildings. The only thing I

14 don't like about the portal sign, is I would like to

15 see the letters held within the frontwork or the

16 framework on there. I think it would look a little

17 more elegant maybe. And again, I'm willing to

18 support the portal sign.

19 As far as granting a blanket variance,

20 no way, on the individual signs for the individual

21 tenants; that would be -- I'm not willing to give up

22 that control.

23 Thank you.

24 Mr. Chair?









1 MR. CHAIRMAN: Go ahead.

2 MEMBER GRONACHAN: I let all of the

3 experienced ones go first, but I concur with most of

4 what they said, however I do have a few exceptions to

5 their statements.

6 First up on portal signs, I was

7 unaware that we've never let banners be allowed in

8 any part of Novi. However, I feel that there are too

9 many banners on this. I'm not totally opposed to it,

10 but I feel that there's just too many, and as Member

11 Gray I believe said, it's too cluttered. I have a

12 hard time with that. I really -- the drawings and

13 the presentations that you give are wonderful, but

14 when you go out there, I have a hard time picturing

15 it.

16 So I -- just to let everybody else on

17 the Board know that or on the table know that -- I

18 would be willing to allow or cut some of those.

19 In regards to the portal sign, I, too,

20 have no problem with it.

21 And the last, but not least, in

22 regards to the sign in the store. I think

23 individuality is great. However, I -- being the

24 newest member, I like this position that I hold, and









1 I don't really appreciate anybody else taking it away

2 from me at this point. I feel that by doing this and

3 allowing store members to have their individuality or

4 you overseeing it, we're allowing a blanket here, and

5 I am not in favor of that, whatsoever.

6 And if they need to come see us, then

7 that's our job and I'll be happy to be here for them.

8 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

9 MR. CHAIRMAN: You're welcome.

10 Board Members, further comments or

11 discussions?

12 Mr. Miller?

13 MR. MILLER: Yes. I'd like to address

14 a couple of issues.

15 With respect to the banners, the

16 owner's intent and budget at this time to alleviate

17 your concerns, Mr. Bauer, I believe, there would be

18 no banners at the parking lot, none. It's not in the

19 cards. They don't want it. We are not pushing for

20 them, as part of a design theme. The only banners

21 that we see in place are the ones that we have

22 indicated on the documents presented to you thus far.

23 I can appreciate your sentiment about

24 the advertising. The gesture was made by the owner









1 to allow the City, if they would wish, to utilize

2 those facilities, they could. I can understand your

3 position, advertising is advertising, no matter who

4 puts it out.

5 The intent of the banners, again, were

6 graphic in nature, decorative in nature, no more, no

7 less. The quantity of them, I believe we can come

8 back to you and -- after discussing it with the owner

9 -- we could probably reduce the quantity of banners

10 around the perimeter of the buildings.

11 Put that one down on that thing again.

12 There we go.

13 I would think that if we took a look

14 at all of the banners that encompass the perimeter of

15 the buildings, we could reduce those, and eliminate

16 what you feel as a cluttered appearance. In the

17 pedestrian concourse and the east/west drive-through,

18 I would lobby that we would try and retain the

19 quantity that we have there. It enhances those

20 particular spaces, along with the plantings and the

21 light effects that will be put on the buildings to

22 give it a very festive and intimate feel.

23 We could come back to you, though, as

24 I said, and look at the quantity of banners that we









1 have around the perimeters.

2 MEMBER BRENNAN: Mr. Chairman?

3 MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Brennan?

4 MEMBER BRENNAN: As we look at this

5 particular layout while I do this quick counting

6 here, the banner style number one, which are -- is

7 the yellow banner with the sunburst, whatever?

8 MR. MILLER: Yes.

9 MEMBER BRENNAN: There appears there's

10 15 of. Banner style three, which runs through the

11 inner part of the complex, I've counted 31. And

12 banner style number two, which is around the exterior

13 of building D and C, is 15.

14 MR. MILLER: The banner style number

15 three, which is in the east/west drive-through, there

16 are eight.

17 MEMBER GRAY: There's 40 of number

18 two.

19 MEMBER BRENNAN: All right. If know

20 the numbers, why don't you give me the numbers.

21 Banner style number one, how many?


23 MEMBER BRENNAN: 15, it looks like.

24 MEMBER GRAY: It's 15, 8, and 40.









1 MR. MILLER: I think we have 12 in

2 there. 15, okay, 15.

3 MEMBER BRENNAN: Okay. Banner style

4 number two.

5 MR. MILLER: I think we have 40.

6 MEMBER GRAY: Number 2, there's 40.

7 MEMBER BRENNAN: Banner style number

8 three.

9 MR. MILLER: Eight. But you have to

10 --

11 MEMBER BRENNAN: So you've got a total

12 of about 63 banners that we're looking at.

13 MR. MILLER: Yes.

14 MEMBER BRENNAN: And that is probably

15 something you want to look at to, scaling down.

16 MEMBER GRAY: And those are double,

17 yes, exactly.

18 MEMBER BRENNAN: And again, you know,

19 we looked at this complex or this new development as

20 being special. You've been given some consideration

21 for signage for traffic flow and some other, but this

22 might be a bit, a bit heavy.

23 MR. MILLER: Again, I think we can

24 reduce the number, and I would think we would first









1 and foremost look at the banner style number two

2 around the building. We by no means, will eliminate

3 light poles, but we will look at limiting the banners

4 on those poles, maybe go to every other or every

5 third. We'll approach it from that direction and see

6 how the owner reacts to that.


8 MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Brennan?

9 MEMBER BRENNAN: May I make a Motion

10 for this case with respect to the request A, that it

11 be tabled.

12 MEMBER BAUER: Second.

13 MR. CHAIRMAN: It's been moved and

14 second to table section A on the banners, until we

15 hear some further input from the requester.

16 All those in favor, signify by saying

17 Aye.


19 MR. CHAIRMAN: Opposed.

20 Okay. Request A is tabled.

21 Let's go on to request B.

22 MEMBER BRENNAN: I'll also make a

23 Motion on request B that the portal design facing I-

24 96, be approved as submitted.










2 MR. CHAIRMAN: It's been moved and

3 second to approve request B for the ground portal

4 sign.

5 Is there any discussion on the Motion

6 --

7 I have a question. How far does that

8 set-off back from the expressway.


10 MR. MILLER: At least 600 feet.


12 MR. MILLER: It's 600 feet off the

13 centerline of Fountain Walk Avenue, which is the new

14 street.

15 MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay. All right.

16 Thank you very much.

17 Any further discussion on the Motion?

18 Hearing none, Madam Secretary, would

19 you call the roll, please.

20 SARAH MARCHIONI: Member Brennan?


22 SARAH MARCHIONI: Member Gronachan?


24 SARAH MARCHIONI: Member Bauer?












4 SARAH MARCHIONI: Member Reinke?


6 SARAH MARCHIONI: Member Sanghvi?



9 Request B has been approved.

10 MEMBER BRENNAN: Mr. Chairman, I'll

11 make a Motion for request C.

12 MR. CHAIRMAN: Go ahead, Mr. Brennan.

13 MEMBER BRENNAN: I preface it by

14 saying that we would like to keep control over

15 signage, so I am going to make a Motion that we deny

16 request C.

17 MEMBER GRAY: Second.

18 MEMBER BAUER: Second.

19 MR. CHAIRMAN: Anything further on the

20 Motion?

21 MEMBER BRENNAN: I -- my gut feel is

22 along the same lines as others, I can't give up

23 approval of a sign that I haven't seen.

24 MR. MILLER: We agree.









1 MEMBER BRENNAN: Thank you, sir.

2 MR. MILLER: We have but one question

3 for you.


5 MR. MILLER: And it's a statement

6 question.

7 Okay. We would entertain that there

8 are numbers of different signages allowed by the

9 City. There are specific signages that are not

10 allowed, and one that comes to mind immediately,

11 would be neon.

12 We would work within the parameters of

13 the Zoning Ordinance as it stands now to eliminate or

14 not permit specific signage, like neon, being

15 utilized.

16 Part of the variance that was granted

17 us a couple of months ago, took the review and

18 approval process for the signs to be utilized in the

19 pedestrian concourse and the east/west drive-through

20 -- with the exception of within 25 feet of the ends

21 of the drive-through -- it allowed us not to have to

22 bring those to the -- help me, Mr. Saven.

23 MR. SAVEN: Presented to the board,

24 because this is what I was trying to bring up earlier









1 on, a discussion that previously we had

2 interpretation from the attorney, regarding the sign,

3 and it's talking about some of these visible to the

4 public streets, when the sign is facing the interior

5 of the project, they were exempt.

6 MR. MILLER: Right. They were not to

7 be regulated.

8 MR. SAVEN: What became -- what became

9 an issue was the diversity of the signage. So if

10 those were not regulated within the interior, how

11 would it fit in with the rest of the project, if

12 there was diversity there.

13 What we have allowable in this

14 particular area, what are we going to do to the

15 exterior signs that are facing now, the exterior of

16 the project. In essence, that is why we had this

17 discussion that this issue should be brought before

18 the Board.

19 MR. MILLER: As part of that

20 consideration, it was deemed that any of the signage

21 then that was exposed to public view around the

22 perimeter facing 12 Mile, Cabaret, Fountain Walk

23 Drive, and Donaldson, would be presented for the sign

24 review Ordinance, to -- in that respect to create --









1 we would still do that.

2 So the opportunity for you to review

3 the signage exists. What we are asking is not to

4 limit us to one type of sign used at that reviewable

5 area for each tenant. We're asking for some latitude

6 for the tenants to work within the different types of

7 sign, character, that's already allowed by the City

8 of Novi.

9 MEMBER BRENNAN: And every tenant has

10 got that option.

11 MR. MILLER: Every tenant --

12 MEMBER BRENNAN: Every tenant that

13 comes before us with their plan for their sign, and

14 that's what we'd like you to do.

15 MR. MILLER: Uh-huh, yes.

16 And that, I think -- and I'm guessing

17 now, I think we said it was going to be in the realm

18 of 19 tenants maybe.

19 MR. CHAIRMAN: That would have outside

20 exposure?

21 MR. MILLER: Yes.

22 MEMBER SANGHVI: That's fine.


24 MR. MILLER: I guess what we're asking









1 is to allow those tenants by way of the review

2 process, to have different types of signage

3 reviewable, not just one type.

4 MR. CHAIRMAN: Because of it being

5 visible and because of the magnitude of your

6 development, because of the impact of that magnitude,

7 the board is very reluctant to relinquish that

8 control to have a free-reign, as we see it. Maybe

9 it's not as for what we're interpreting or feeling

10 that could potentially be there. That's our concern.

11 That's why we will retain control.

12 MR. MILLER: We wish you to. We're

13 not asking you to give that up.

14 If I may, by way of example. The

15 first tenant in submits his facade with a rice-way

16 sign. You approve it. Second tenant in submits his

17 facade with pinned off letters. You now could say,

18 doesn't meet uniformity, because we've already

19 approved the rice-way. That's what we're worried

20 about.

21 MR. CHAIRMAN: I think this Board has

22 been very open-minded and worked with your

23 development, especially, and I don't think that

24 you've found us to be --









1 MR. MILLER: Not at all.

2 MR. CHAIRMAN: -- straight-line down,

3 that we didn't deviate, we didn't try to go with the

4 theme and the conceptual development that you have

5 there; and I don't think that you'll find that.

6 MR. MILLER: Good.

7 MR. CHAIRMAN: But I very much say

8 that the Board will work with you.

9 MR. MILLER: Excellent. That's all we

10 ask.

11 MR. CHAIRMAN: And -- but to give a

12 wide-open range, I totally agree with other Board

13 members that I would really have a problem doing

14 that.

15 MR. MILLER: Okay.

16 I'm sorry if it was worded that way,

17 that really wasn't our intent.

18 MR. CHAIRMAN: We have a Motion. We

19 have a second.

20 Any further discussion on the Motion?

21 If not, Madam Secretary, would you

22 call the roll, please.

23 SARAH MARCHIONI: Member Brennan?










1 SARAH MARCHIONI: Member Gronachan?


3 SARAH MARCHIONI: Member Bauer?




7 SARAH MARCHIONI: Member Reinke?


9 SARAH MARCHIONI: Member Sanghvi?


11 MR. CHAIRMAN: Sir, you've got one,

12 one tabled and one denied.

13 MR. MILLER: Thank you very much for

14 your time.

15 MR. CHAIRMAN: Good luck.

16 Okay. The next case.

17 CASE NUMBER: 01-073 filed by John

18 Prieur representing Beacon Sign Company, representing

19 Cingular Wireless is requesting permission to allow a

20 sign to remain without first obtaining a permit.

21 Sir, would you give your name and

22 address to the secretary and be sworn in, please.

23 MR. HARRIS: My name is Roy Harris

24 from Beacon Sign Company.









1 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Would you raise

2 your right hand, please.

3 Do you swear or affirm that the

4 testimony that you are about to give in this matter,

5 will be the truth?

6 MR. HARRIS: I will.


8 MR. CHAIRMAN: Will you please present

9 your case.

10 MR. HARRIS: I'm sorry that we have to

11 come here under these circumstances, but we did not

12 put up the new canopy. So I just want to make you

13 understand that it wasn't Beacon Sign that -- but we

14 are representing Cingular Wireless, and they've asked

15 us to come here to rectify the problem. And so we're

16 requesting permission to allow the sign to remain.

17 There is a change that needs to be

18 done, because they do not have -- presently have any

19 advertising on there. Their name is Metro Cell-Big

20 Net. That is the name, and that is not on the

21 canopy. The only thing that's on the canopy right

22 now is Cingular Wireless.

23 And I was asked to present the square

24 footage. The total square footage for all the sign









1 would be 42 square foot.

2 MR. CHAIRMAN: Any other information

3 you have?

4 MR. HARRIS: Not at this time.

5 MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay. Is there any one

6 in the audience that would like to participate in

7 this case?

8 Building department?

9 MR. SAVEN: How did you identify the

10 42 square feet?

11 MR. HARRIS: John Prieur, who pulls

12 the permits for Beacon Sign Company, did the

13 calculation on the -- again, it's going to have --

14 the canopy that's there presently, is going to have

15 to be changed. So it's not going to remain the way

16 it is. Because I believe right now from the

17 photograph that I have here, it shows Cingular on

18 there twice, if that is correct, because that's what

19 it's showing here.

20 And what they're asking for is

21 Cingular to be on there once, but also to have Metro

22 Cell. So it's going -- they want it to look like

23 Cingular with Metro Cell. I don't know -- do you

24 have these copies?










2 MR. HARRIS: I don't think they can

3 come up. Oh, face up, I'm sorry.

4 MR. CHAIRMAN: Well, it looks like the

5 whole building's a sign, doesn't it?

6 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Bring it back down.

7 MR. HARRIS: I haven't been out to the

8 location, but this is the photograph of -- that was

9 presented. As you can see, Cingular is on their

10 twice. But what they're asking to do is to have

11 Cingular on the one side; and Metro Cell-Big Net on

12 the other side. And that's how we came up with the

13 42 square feet. So they're going to have to redo the

14 canopy.

15 MR. CHAIRMAN: Sorry to say, I take a

16 look at that, when I look at a business as exploiting

17 the Ordinance to the fullest extent they can get away

18 with. And I really have a problem in that type of

19 situation, because you've got as much or more signage

20 in the windows, than you have on the canopy.

21 What is it, 25 percent now?

22 Would you say that's at least 25

23 percent?

24 MR. SAVEN: That's a little hard for









1 me to determine that.

2 MR. CHAIRMAN: Can I ask a question?

3 Who put the sign up, who put the

4 canopy up?

5 MR. HARRIS: There's a truck in this

6 picture and it says, Sign and Awning Services.

7 MR. SAVEN: Do you want to leave that

8 with us? I'm sorry.

9 MR. CHAIRMAN: Well, number one, this

10 hasn't been advertised as to what they want. Number

11 two, the sign went up without a permit, and anybody,

12 including Metro Cell -- Cingular especially, should

13 know that when they're doing business some place,

14 they need to see if a permit is required or what is

15 allowed.

16 And my personal opinion, I would deny

17 this and make them reapply the correct way.

18 MEMBER BRENNAN: I have a question.

19 MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Brennan?

20 MEMBER BRENNAN: I'm either very

21 thick, very stupid or I missed something, but are you

22 -- are these two separate businesses in the same

23 building, or is Cingular and Metro Cell and Big Net

24 all in the same?









1 MR. HARRIS: The name -- the name of

2 the business is Metro Cell-Big Net. That's the name

3 of their -- that's the name of their business. The

4 reason for the change to Cingular Wireless, is as

5 Ameritech was bought-out by Cingular Wireless. And

6 so that's what changed.

7 There was a canopy --

8 MEMBER BRENNAN: That didn't answer my

9 question. Is this one business at this facility?

10 MR. HARRIS: Yes. This is the canopy

11 that the permit was granted for before, a blue

12 canopy, Metro Cell-Big Net. So that -- that was the

13 canopy that was up there, and then when they changed

14 over to Cingular, they -- Cingular came in with this

15 truck, and put up this sign right there. That's what

16 was put up.

17 What we're asking today is again,

18 there's going to have to be a complete change over.

19 It's changing over the fabric, but to change it over,

20 so that it now would look like that. So it's nothing

21 -- it's not changing the shape, the size of it. The

22 only thing we're talking about is the signage on the

23 canopy, itself.

24 MEMBER BRENNAN: I think you have some









1 other issues, because the rendering you have given us

2 here suggests that you're taking a measurement of one

3 point -- or one foot four inches along side of this

4 M, when indeed, the overall sign is probably a little

5 bit bigger than that, because you have to take up the

6 envelope. You need to sit down with the sign guys in

7 the building department, you've got a mess here.

8 MR. CHAIRMAN: Board members, further

9 comments or discussions?

10 MEMBER SANGHVI: There's a -- may I

11 make a Motion?

12 MR. CHAIRMAN: Please.


14 073, applicant's request be denied because of A,

15 illegal sign which is already put up without a

16 permit; B, the current request doesn't clearly state

17 what kind of sign and what size of the sign that they

18 want to put on.

19 MEMBER BAUER: Second.

20 MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay. It's been moved

21 and second to deny the Petitioner's request.

22 Any further discussion on the Motion?

23 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Mr. Chairman, I

24 would like to say something in regards to this









1 disaster out in the front window.

2 I think that the message that you need

3 to take back to your store owner is to -- actually,

4 when I first saw the awning, the awning itself, is

5 very nice. All of the stuff in the windows and

6 everything else, is just -- it just takes away from

7 that awning. We won't even go into the fact that

8 they didn't follow the right procedure.

9 They have an idea, but they didn't

10 follow the right procedure, and I think they wouldn't

11 have this problem if they did.

12 But the awning itself, when you

13 looking at the building, it does look good, but not

14 with all the stuff in the windows. So you just might

15 want to carry that message back. And you have

16 concern of what -- all that stuff that's in the

17 windows, as well, when they come back.

18 MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay. Board members,

19 further comments or discussions?

20 Madam Secretary, would you call the

21 roll, please.

22 SARAH MARCHIONI: Member Sanghvi?


24 SARAH MARCHIONI: Member Bauer?










2 SARAH MARCHIONI: Member Brennan?




6 SARAH MARCHIONI: Member Gronachan?


8 SARAH MARCHIONI: Member Reinke?


10 Your request is denied.

11 MR. HARRIS: Thank you.

12 MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you.


14 Okay. Next case is:

15 CASE NUMBER: 01-074 filed by Hathem

16 Hannawa -- would you please come forward --

17 representing Holiday Inn Express, is requesting two

18 landscaping variances for the proposed building to be

19 located south of 12 Mile and west of Haggerty Road.

20 These variances are for interior building landscaping

21 requirements and landscape planting buffers abutting

22 the right-of-way.

23 Sir, would you give your name and

24 address and be sworn in by the secretary, please.









1 MR. HANNAWA: My name is Hathem

2 Hannawa of H&H Designs.

3 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Would you raise

4 your right hand, please.

5 Do you swear that the testimony that

6 you're about to give in this matter, is the truth?



9 MR. HANNAWA: Okay. What we're

10 seeking is two variances, both created by natural

11 features. Actually, one is the retaining wall, which

12 we've been coordinating with Linda Limpke, the

13 Landscape Architect for the City of Novi. And we've

14 worked with her, decided to put in a boulder

15 retaining wall, which would be --

16 MEMBER GRAY: We have this portable

17 mike.

18 MR. HANNAWA: Thank you.

19 One of the variances is the boulder

20 retaining wall along the northside of the parking lot

21 here; that would retain most of the soil for the bike

22 path. Because of the road being so high, with all

23 the landscape features that have to go in, we had to

24 provide a retaining wall here. So that's one of the









1 variance.

2 So that was caused by the natural

3 features of the site, which is kind lower than the

4 road, when the road went in. The second would be the

5 four foot landscape requirement, that's required

6 around the perimeter of the building. We kind of

7 failed to provide that from here to here -- well,

8 actually, it's this little section and this little

9 section here. But we do provide that in -- more than

10 four feet around more of the sides of the building.

11 But the reason we couldn't put it here, is because of

12 the elevations of the building is that there's a nice

13 feature here from the exterior where the building

14 bumps out.

15 Here's the elevation of it. So it

16 would be this section here that would not have the

17 landscaping, and this section here. As you can see,

18 it's like some tower elements that go out, just to

19 create some emphasis as traffic's going west on 12

20 Mile Road.

21 So that's the only areas that we don't

22 provide that four foot landscape requirement around

23 the building.

24 As I mentioned, we provide more than









1 that on all the other sides. And the reason for that

2 is because we -- there's a wetland buffer -- there's

3 a line right here. I don't know if you can see that,

4 but that's the extent of the wetland buffer, the 25

5 foot buffer. So we try to put the building far away

6 as possible, so not to disturb it, and it resulted of

7 that.

8 And that's all.

9 Thank you.

10 MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you.

11 Is there anyone in the audience that

12 would like to participate or input into this case?

13 Hearing none, building department?

14 MR. SAVEN: Mr. Chairman, the fact

15 that there's a letter from Linda Limpke and

16 Associates, which address basically the same items

17 that this gentleman just tried to explain, basically

18 the interior landscaping requirements. She indicates

19 that we support this variance, due to the location of

20 the building, outside the wooded wetlands falling up

21 -- on the one side of the building for that projected

22 area, projected elevation area.

23 And the other one was for planning

24 buffers, the flooding right of way. And she also









1 indicates that we support the variance due to the

2 higher elevation of 12 Mile Road and landscaping

3 adjacent to the road.

4 MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you.

5 Board members, comments or

6 discussions.

7 Mr. Brennan?

8 MEMBER BRENNAN: I have always felt

9 that Ms. Limpke is one of our most important assets

10 in this community. And if she has given a

11 recommendation for support, I'll take her word for

12 it, and I would move that we consider granting this

13 variance, based on her testimony.

14 MR. CHAIRMAN: Board members, further

15 comments or discussions?

16 Will you make our Motion, Mr. Brennan?


18 CASE NUMBER: 01-074, I move that the

19 Petitioner's request be granted because of --


21 (Interposing.)(Unintelligible.)

22 MEMBER BRENNAN: And all of that.


24 MR. CHAIRMAN: It's been moved and









1 seconded, to grant the Petitioner's variance request.

2 Is there any further discussion on the

3 Motion?

4 Hearing none, Madam Secretary, would

5 you call the roll, please.

6 SARAH MARCHIONI: And why are we doing

7 that?

8 MEMBER BRENNAN: Lot configuration.

9 SARAH MARCHIONI: Lot configuration.

10 Member Brennan?


12 SARAH MARCHIONI: Member Gronachan?


14 SARAH MARCHIONI: Member Bauer?


16 SARAH MARCHIONI: Member Gray?


18 SARAH MARCHIONI: Member Reinke?


20 SARAH MARCHIONI: Member Sanghvi?


22 MR. CHAIRMAN: Sir, your request has

23 been approved.

24 MR. HANNAWA: Thank you very much.









1 MR. CHAIRMAN: See the building

2 department for any necessary paperwork.

3 We wish you the best of luck.

4 MR. HANNAWA: Thank you.


6 MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay. We'll keep

7 moving right on through.

8 Okay. Next case is:

9 CASE NUMBER: 01-075 filed by Daniel

10 Fitzgerald at 22317 Mill Road.

11 Would you please come forward.

12 Daniel Fitzgerald is requesting a lot

13 coverage variance of five percent for the property

14 located at 22317 Mill Road, Whispering Meadows

15 Subdivision Number 2. The variance is requested for

16 the construction of an addition off the back of the

17 home.

18 Sir, would you please give your name

19 and address and be sworn in by our secretary.

20 MR. FITZGERALD: Daniel Fitzgerald,

21 22317 Mill Road.

22 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Do you swear that

23 the testimony that you're about to give in this

24 matter, is the truth?











3 MR. FITZGERALD: I guess I'm kind of

4 new to this. I ran some copies, just a couple pages

5 of photos. Can I pass these --

6 MR. CHAIRMAN: Sure, please.

7 MR. FITZGERALD: Basically, I -- me

8 and my wife, we've been in this house for about ten

9 years, since December of '91, and we've kind of

10 outgrown the house. And it's a ranch-style house, as

11 you can see from the first photo.

12 Do you want this up? Can everybody

13 see?

14 MR. CHAIRMAN: No, it's all right. We

15 all have copies.

16 MR. FITZGERALD: And we decided to put

17 an addition on it, instead of moving. We like the

18 certain aspect of the neighborhood. We love the

19 neighbors and certain parts of the house that we

20 like, but it's just not quite big enough for us.

21 And as you can see, it's a ranch, so

22 our options of going up is limited. On the second

23 page, you'll there's two photos of the inside of the

24 interior of the house. It's all cathedral ceilings,









1 and open floor plan. So to go up, I'll basically

2 have to change the whole style of the house and make

3 it into a colonial, and that's not really the style

4 we're looking for.

5 And the second reason that we don't

6 see it to be a problem, is -- as you can see on the

7 first page, the first two photos -- the bottom two

8 photos shows the back of the house. We back up to a

9 commons area, so we won't be infringing on any

10 neighbors. And I've talked to all my neighbors and

11 they don't have a problem with it. I think some

12 might have sent something back in. I don't know

13 what's in the file, but.

14 And then lastly, I took a picture of a

15 house that's in Turtle Creek, which is the next

16 subdivision over, the last photo on the bottom of the

17 second page. And that was a house that was actually

18 -- the owner -- the guy that built the subdivision I

19 live in, Craig Hill, this was his house, actually,

20 years ago, and he built an addition off across the

21 whole back of the house, and put the swimming pool --

22 I think he put the swimming pool in, and then built

23 the addition around the swimming pool. That was

24 actually in that house.









1 So I just put that in as an example of

2 a past variance that was granted for lot coverage.

3 And I'm going to do this construction

4 myself. I'm the owner of Fitzgerald Electric. I've

5 been in the construction industry for 20 years. I've

6 recently bought the business -- me and a partner --

7 from my father. We do mainly hospitals and school

8 work, so obviously the quality of our work is pretty

9 much self-explanatory, for the work we do.

10 And I got a lot of experience, a lot

11 of people in business, so we put a quality project

12 up. And I think it would enhance the neighborhood

13 and I'm a little nervous and that's about it.

14 MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you.

15 Is there anyone else in the audience

16 that would like to input into this case?

17 Hearing none, building department?

18 MR. SAVEN: Just as a quick comment in

19 terms of -- this is for the enclosure of a swimming

20 pool, and that if it was a pool being installed on

21 the property, you can get as close as six feet to the

22 side of the rear of the property line.

23 MR. FITZGERALD: Okay. This one's

24 actually not for a swimming pool.









1 MR. SAVEN: No, oh, I'm sorry.

2 MR. FITZGERALD: That was the guy that

3 --

4 MR. SAVEN: I stand corrected.

5 MR. FITZGERALD: I just want some

6 living space.

7 MR. CHAIRMAN: Actually, he's looking

8 for a place to put a swimming pool.

9 Mr. Brennan?

10 Before -- excuse me, one moment.


12 MR. CHAIRMAN: There were 35 notices

13 sent. We've received two responses, both approvals.

14 Go ahead, Mr. Brennan.

15 MEMBER BRENNAN: I thought there was

16 also something from the Homeowners' Association?

17 MR. CHAIRMAN: I believe it made

18 notation that the drawing of Homeowner's Association

19 approval is on file.

20 MR. BRENNAN: I might have had some

21 problem with this if we had a set-back issue, as

22 well. But we're looking at a five percent building

23 space, that's still within the set-back. The

24 gentleman's got a fairly deep backyard, and I don't









1 have any issue with this. I don't see any of the

2 neighbors complaining. I would be compelled to grant

3 the variance.

4 MR. CHAIRMAN: I echo your sentiments

5 exactly, because the first time I looked at it, is

6 this going to run into a set-back problem. The

7 second thing is there neighbors or association,

8 nobody's objecting -- no objections all the way

9 around, and I think it's a minimal amount of change

10 in request, pursuant to a lot of additions that have

11 been added.

12 Board members, any other comments or

13 discussions?

14 MEMBER SANGHVI: Just one question.

15 MR. FITZGERALD: Uh-huh.

16 MEMBER SANGHVI: You have a deck there

17 now.


19 MEMBER SANGHVI: How far back are you

20 going to cover with that?

21 MR. FITZGERALD: That deck, right now,

22 goes out 16 feet. So I'm going to tear that deck

23 down, and then only go 15 feet out.










1 MR. FITZGERALD: I built that deck,

2 too. I got to tear it down.

3 MR. CHAIRMAN: Ms. Gray.

4 MEMBER GRAY: I thought in looking at

5 this with the configuration of the lot, and still

6 maintaining the set-backs, I thought it was a real

7 creative use of not a very -- a whole lot of space

8 quite frankly.


10 MEMBER GRAY: And I know there's

11 concerns been expressed in the passed about the

12 coverage of -- additional coverage of property, but I

13 think this is fairly creative and it's not going to

14 encroach any farther than your deck does now. And

15 so, I would have no problem with it.

16 MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay. Board members,

17 further comments or discussion?

18 Hearing none, the Chair looks for

19 Motion in this case.

20 MEMBER GRAY: Mr. Chairman, in the

21 matter of CASE NUMBER: 01-075, I would move that we

22 approve the Petitioner's variance of five percent lot

23 coverage, based on use of the land and use of the

24 property.









1 MEMBER BAUER: Second the Motion.

2 MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay. It has been

3 moved and seconded to grant the variance as

4 requested.

5 Is any further discussion on the

6 Motion?

7 Hearing none, Madam Secretary, would

8 you call roll, please.



11 SARAH MARCHIONI: Member Bauer?


13 SARAH MARCHIONI: Member Brennan?


15 SARAH MARCHIONI: Member Gronachan?


17 SARAH MARCHIONI: Member Reinke?


19 SARAH MARCHIONI: Member Sanghvi?


21 MR. CHAIRMAN: Sir, your variance

22 request has been approved. See the building

23 department for necessary permits, and we wish you the

24 best of luck.









1 MR. FITZGERALD: Thanks for your time.


3 MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay. Moving on, next

4 case:

5 CASE: 01-076, filed my Michael Forker

6 of 46644 Nine Mile Road.

7 Sir, would you please give your name

8 and address and be sworn in by our secretary.

9 MR. FORKER: Michael Forker at 46644

10 Nine Mile Road.

11 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Please raise your

12 right hand.

13 Do you swear or affirm that the

14 testimony you're about to give in this matter, is the

15 truth?

16 MR. FORKER: I do.


18 MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay. Is requesting a

19 front yard footage variance of 80.5 feet to allow

20 property split, for a parcel identified as sidwell

21 number 5022-28-300-008. Property is in an R-1 Zoning

22 District.

23 Sir, please present your case.

24 MR. FORKER: Okay. Thank you very









1 much.

2 My objective here tonight is to take

3 my current acre and a quarter parcel and try to split

4 it into two half acre parcels. Parcel A, which

5 should meet all the current zoning regulations; but

6 parcel B, would still meet the half acre density, but

7 not meet 120 feet frontage on Nine Mile, so there is

8 why I'm asking for the variance with an 80.5 foot.

9 To summarize my hardship, I guess I've

10 been living in Novi and paying taxes since 1985, back

11 when Nine Mile along there was still a dirt road and

12 the horses were roaming, and the rest of it. And

13 back then, I believe, the zoning district was R-3,

14 which only required a 90 foot frontage, not the --

15 you know, if that was the case, I could ask for a ten

16 foot variance. But it would look kind of weird on a

17 90 or 80 foot by 300 and something foot feet lots, so

18 I don't think that would the way to go any way.

19 We really enjoy the area there, and

20 would like to stay. I guess we're just kind of

21 feeling the crunch with high cost of living that's

22 surrounding us now. When we got there, it was kind

23 of like 14 houses on the whole stretch, and now, as

24 you know, it's pretty much surrounded by a lot of









1 subdivisions and cul-de-sacs.

2 We're trying to present this as a

3 win/win scenario for everybody. It would allow us to

4 sell the current home to somebody who would have the

5 resources to fix it up or tear it down and then build

6 something new; and then thus allow us to take the

7 revenue from that and build a new house on parcel A

8 -- or parcel B.

9 It would also increase Novi revenue,

10 City and water by about 8000 for additional hook-up.

11 Also raise Novi tax revenue by about creating two

12 300,000 plus parcels, which just roughly probably

13 about 8000 annually a year.

14 And then neighborhood-wise, I would

15 assume that with those two parcels made better, would

16 help increase their revenue, appearance, also.

17 I guess the kind of rationale we're

18 using is that this still maintains the R-1, half acre

19 density in this area, provides a similar lot -- and I

20 did a little sketch here, if I could show, this is

21 the last page. Okay. It kind of shows the area with

22 the new two cul-de-sacs on the other side, going in,

23 and just a half acre kind of lots after they're all

24 split up. Those being the current block with house.









1 So it would be a flag-top type lot with a driveway

2 going back to the parcel B house. It could be

3 similar but shorter than the lot next to it.

4 It kind of still divides it into the

5 same half acre lot appearance.

6 As you know, that whole stretch on

7 Nine Mile kind of between Novi Road of Napier Road,

8 is kind of -- a ton of long driveways and flag lots

9 and that kind of stuff. So it really wouldn't be

10 that much difference, than what's already there.

11 I guess that's about it.

12 MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay. Thank you.

13 Is there anyone else in the audience

14 who would like to input into this case?

15 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I guess I have a

16 question, how many responses were sent out and how

17 many --

18 MR. CHAIRMAN: We'll get to that.


20 MR. CHAIRMAN: Building department?

21 MR. SAVEN: Audience?

22 MR. CHAIRMAN: I'm sorry. I asked if

23 there was anyone in the audience. I didn't -- I

24 apologize. I missed going on.









1 Would you please step forward.

2 MR. FORKER: I do have a picture of

3 the lot with the driveways.

4 MR. CHAIRMAN: Could we have your name

5 and address, please.

6 MR. BOND: My name is Richard Bond. I

7 live at 46700 Nine Mile Road. I would own the 340

8 foot plus west boundary and 159 foot north boundary,

9 would abut my property. I've discussed the situation

10 with Mike, what he wants to do. I have no objection

11 to it at all. The parcel that he's proposing is

12 completely surrounded by trees, and any house he

13 builds in that parcel will be invisible to all the

14 surrounding neighbors.

15 I -- my house is the big P parcel. I

16 have like 160 foot frontage on Nine Mile, but I'm

17 back about 500 feet from the road. And my house is

18 kind of adjacent to the northwest corner. I could

19 not see any house that would be built on that lot.

20 Mike's the type of guy we want to keep in the

21 neighborhood, and my comment is, I think you should

22 approve his request for variance.

23 Thank you.

24 MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you.









1 Is there anyone else in the audience

2 that would have input into this case?

3 Building department?

4 MR. SAVEN: Mr. Chairman, I had a

5 quick conversation with a few people from the

6 adjacent subdivision, and they do have some concerns

7 and say -- yeah, I'm all set.

8 A couple of things maybe that can be

9 answered by Mike in terms of how he would position

10 the house on the property, if the Board was given

11 this consideration. One of the things that's brought

12 light, if you take a look at the 25 foot set-back

13 requirement on the east property line, that really

14 abuts the backyard of the adjacent subdivision in

15 that particular area. They're concerned about how

16 far of a set-back could they look at, because of the

17 rear yard response -- rear yard concerns in the

18 adjacent subdivision, versus a side yard for that

19 parcel.

20 One of the things they were a little

21 concerned about how close the house was going to be

22 in that particular area.

23 The other issue is how -- where was

24 the garage going to be in relationship to the people









1 that were entering the garage, as if they would come

2 down the driveway and pull into the garage, if it was

3 a side-entrance garage, or where this garage was

4 going to be placed, in reference to the lights coming

5 into that particular area, that will shine into the

6 adjacent neighbor's property.

7 Those were some of the concerns that

8 were brought to my attention.

9 MR. FORKER: I guess I can't really

10 answer that right now, because I didn't really get

11 into a house design or anything yet, depending on

12 whether they're going to do it or not. But we'd be

13 more than willing to work with --

14 MR. SAVEN: One of the things we

15 wanted to point out, what you see is a buildable area

16 on this plot-land, which means that I do not believe

17 that Mike was going to build a house that was going

18 to be approximately 100 foot long, whatever, based on

19 the buildablity. He's going to fit it somewhere

20 within that area. It's going to be critical to those

21 who are adjacent to the property, based upon how it

22 backs up to the site and where they're going to place

23 the house.

24 MR. CHAIRMAN: Answering the









1 gentleman's question, there were 21 notices sent. We

2 received six objections and one was returned.

3 I -- does that answer your question?

4 UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, sir, thank

5 you.

6 MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay. Is there

7 anything else that --


9 MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you.

10 Okay. Board members, comments or

11 discussions?

12 There are -- let me allude to one

13 other thing. In our package, we had received input

14 from Linda Limpke, and she had no objections. Robert

15 Royal had an objection, because it's creating another

16 flag lot, basically.

17 Okay. Board members, comments or

18 discussions?

19 MEMBER SANGHVI: Question, sir.

20 MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Sanghvi?

21 MEMBER SANGHVI: Mike, are you

22 planning to keep the current house as it is?

23 MR. FORKER: No. I'm planning on

24 selling that and then using the equity from that to









1 build a new house for myself on parcel B.

2 Financially wise, I guess that's the

3 basis for my main hardship is whatever money I can

4 put into fixing up that house, I don't have a lot of

5 equity to do that. So if I could sell that as-is, or

6 fix it up a little bit and sell it, you know, then I

7 would have a lot that's free and clear, plus the

8 equity from the house, that would allow me to build

9 --

10 MEMBER SANGHVI: Are you planning to

11 build a new house in the second lot.

12 MR. FORKER: In the second lot.

13 Yeah.

14 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you.

15 MR. FORKER: Yes. I really like the

16 area and we want to stay an --

17 MR. CHAIRMAN: Board members, further

18 comments or discussions?

19 Ms. Gray?

20 MEMBER GRAY: Mr. Reinke.

21 The philosophy of this City is to not

22 create flag lots. In my years of watching the

23 Planning Commission and City Council meetings, I

24 realize that Petitioner does want to stay in the









1 area, and I'm having a real tough time with this one,

2 because it clearly creates a flag lot, that we

3 generally don't allow. And I will certainly listen

4 to the wisdom of more experienced Board members.

5 Thank you.

6 MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you.

7 Understanding what Petitioner wants to

8 do and so forth like that, but it really creates a

9 problem and it just multiplies a problem that we have

10 once those are created. Once it's created, you got

11 it, it's there. And I -- and I don't find enough

12 here for myself be swayed to support it.

13 Other board members, comments or

14 discussions?

15 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Mr. Chairman?


17 MEMBER GRONACHAN: I -- in reviewing

18 that site, too, my two concerns, in looking to the

19 hardship, it seems -- it appears to me in my review

20 that it is strictly an economical, and I can't go

21 along with that. And my fear of living at that part

22 of town, is that we're not going to be setting into a

23 precedent. There are certainly lots of pieces of

24 property out there -- this Board member living in one









1 of them -- that could split and not have that type of

2 frontage.

3 The City made decisions in the past to

4 make -- to rule with that kind frontage and why they

5 have it, and I think that we should support that.

6 So based on the fact that there's lack

7 of hardship, I would not be able to support this, as

8 well.

9 MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Bauer.

10 MEMBER BAUER: I cannot find where

11 there's a hardship or practical difficulty, so I

12 could not support it.

13 MR. FORKER: Could I respond to that?

14 MR. CHAIRMAN: Please.

15 MR. FORKER: I guess the hardship is

16 that I've been living there for 15 years, and now the

17 developments and everything that everybody's allowed

18 in the subdivisions that they go in, has basically

19 forced me out of the neighborhood, as far as if I

20 sell what I have, I do not have enough equity to go

21 into a subdivision. I mean, it's just not there. So

22 -- an additional thing, I think -- I can almost make

23 this thing, if I'm not allowed to split it, I can

24 almost like make the thing look like it's still









1 split. I can put in a circular drive and a driveway

2 back to a detached garage in the back, and basically,

3 it appears like it's a split.

4 So I guess appearance-wise, it's

5 setting a precedent for a flag lot that I guess I

6 don't see that.

7 MR. CHAIRMAN: Board members, further

8 comments or discussions?

9 MEMBER GRAY: I know for a fact when

10 Mr. and Mrs. Pasgucci(ph) came before the counsel for

11 a flag lot split for their whole family on five on

12 Taft Road. It was turned down, and that was quite a

13 bit more, four times the property.

14 I live in an area where, you know, we

15 have 40 foot lots, and you know, what you're

16 proposing to keep for your frontage, is a buildable

17 lot in my area. You know, it's a completely

18 different neighborhood, obviously. And you know,

19 you've been aware all a long that you've had this

20 property and you knew -- you certainly should have

21 known what's going on.

22 I mean, I watched my property

23 escalate, also. And you know, I sympathize with the

24 economics, but it's --









1 MR. FORKER: Well, it's worth about

2 100,000 to me.

3 MEMBER GRAY: Well, you know, I

4 understand.

5 MR. FORKER: It's a substantial amount

6 of money.

7 MEMBER GRAY: I understand. But it's

8 just one of those things that we can't do it, you

9 know.

10 MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay. Any further

11 discussions?

12 Hearing none, the chair entertains a

13 Motion in CASE NUMBER: 01-076.


15 the variance should be denied due to no practical

16 difficulty or hardship.


18 MR. CHAIRMAN: It's been moved and

19 seconded that the variance request be denied.

20 Any further discussion on the Motion?

21 Yes, sir.

22 MR. SCHULTZ: Just a comment. Since

23 it's in the packet already, you know, the controlling

24 finding statements of Mr. Royal's office to assist in









1 the findings.

2 MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay. We have a Motion

3 before us.

4 Any further discussion on the Motion?

5 Madam Secretary, would you call the

6 roll, please.

7 SARAH MARCHIONI: Member Bauer?


9 SARAH MARCHIONI: Member Gronachan?


11 SARAH MARCHIONI: Member Brennan?


13 SARAH MARCHIONI: Member Gray?


15 SARAH MARCHIONI: Member Reinke?


17 SARAH MARCHIONI: Member Sanghvi?


19 MR. CHAIRMAN: Sir, your request has

20 been denied.

21 MR. FORKER: Thank you.


23 MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay. Next case:

24 CASE: 01-077, filed by Bradley









1 Rosenberg, representing Westmarket Square.

2 There he is.

3 MR. ROSENBERG: There he is.

4 MR. CHAIRMAN: Would you please be

5 sworn, give your name and address and be sworn in by

6 our secretary.

7 MR. ROSENBERG: Brad Rosenberg,

8 Landmark Commercial Real Estate, 32605 West 12 Mile

9 Road, Farmington Hills, Michigan.

10 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Would you raise

11 your right hand, please.

12 Do you swear that the testimony that

13 you're about to give in this matter before you, is

14 the truth?



17 MR. ROSENBERG: I'm here tonight to

18 request an extension of my leasing sign for an

19 additional six months. I was before the Board on

20 March 6th of this year, and asked for a one-year

21 sign. The Board thought I should come in at six-

22 month increments. And I'm back before the Board

23 today.

24 I'll give you a brief update on the









1 project, if you'd like, so you know where we're at.

2 MR. CHAIRMAN: Please.


4 Total buildings built today, including

5 Home Depot, Kroger, east out lot to Blockbuster

6 Video, for Retail North, which is the space between

7 Kroger and Home Depot. That's 225,000 square feet.

8 And we've leased to date, 211,000 square feet,

9 leaving 25,000 square feet vacant. That's five

10 spaces vacant. I have leases out on two additional

11 spaces, which would leave me three spaces vacant.

12 That does not include Applebees, which

13 just opened to the public this past Monday, and

14 Standard Federal Bank, which is under construction.

15 We also have started Outback Steak

16 House, which has a lease sign for the project. We'll

17 be in front of the planning commission within the

18 next 30 days for a space in front of the Home Depot.

19 We'll be back in front of the planning commission

20 probably, oh, four months, for some additional space

21 between the Outback Steak House and Home Depot, about

22 another 22,000 square feet. So to lease the balance

23 of my space, I'd like to request my leasing sign to

24 stay up another six months.










2 Is there anyone in the audience who'd

3 like to input into this case?

4 Hearing none, building department?

5 MR. SAVEN: No comment, sir.

6 MR. CHAIRMAN: Board members -- oh,

7 there were 20 notices sent out. We received one

8 approval.

9 Board members, comments or

10 discussions?

11 MEMBER BAUER: Six months or leased.

12 MR. CHAIRMAN: You think you can live

13 with that?

14 MR. ROSENBERG: Absolutely. I don't

15 need a sign up, if it's all leased.

16 MEMBER BRENNAN: Question?

17 MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Brennan?

18 MEMBER BRENNAN: Is there at some

19 point a permanent sign that's going to be -- a

20 development sign?

21 MR. ROSENBERG: No, you can't put a

22 development sign up there. I can't do -- you mean

23 for my leasing project? For the leasing sign? I

24 think we have -- I don't remember --









1 MEMBER BRENNAN: Identifying

2 Westmarket Square.

3 MR. ROSENBERG: I don't remember what

4 the sign says right now.

5 MEMBER BRENNAN: That's something

6 different.

7 MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay. Was that a

8 Motion, Mr. Bauer?

9 MEMBER BAUER: Sure was.

10 MEMBER BRENNAN: Second the Motion.

11 MR. CHAIRMAN: It's been moved and

12 seconded to grant the Petitioner's request for an

13 additional six months or leased.

14 Any further discussion on the Motion?

15 Hearing none, Madam Secretary, would

16 you call the roll, please.

17 SARAH MARCHIONI: Member Bauer?


19 SARAH MARCHIONI: Member Brennan?


21 SARAH MARCHIONI: Member Gray?


23 SARAH MARCHIONI: Member Gronachan?










1 SARAH MARCHIONI: Member Reinke?


3 SARAH MARCHIONI: Member Sanghvi?


5 MR. CHAIRMAN: Sir, your variance

6 request has been approved.

7 See the building department for

8 necessary paperwork, and we hope you get it all

9 leased out.

10 MR. ROSENBERG: Thank you very much.


12 MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay.

13 CASE NUMBER: 01-078, filed by Michael

14 Nelson representing Homedics, is requesting a sign

15 variance for an illuminated ground sign. The

16 original Petitioner of the sign was granted a

17 variance, but the request was limited to that

18 Petitioner only.

19 Sir, would you give your name and

20 address, and be sworn in by our secretary?

21 MR. NELSON: Michael Nelson,

22 representing Homedics at 43100 Nine Mile Road.

23 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Raise your right

24 hand.









1 Do you swear that the testimony that

2 you're about to give you -- give in this matter

3 before you, is the truth?

4 MR. NELSON: Yes.


6 MR. NELSON: Homedics is requesting a

7 variance to allow us to put our name on a existing

8 illuminated sign frame in the front of the 43100 Nine

9 Mile facility to identify it for business purposes.

10 I might add that the previous tenant

11 in the facility had previously been granted a

12 variance to allow them to have their name on the

13 sign. However, it was specific to that tenant, only;

14 so we're requesting permission for Homedics to have

15 our name on the sign.

16 MR. CHAIRMAN: Seeing nobody hiding

17 behind you over there?

18 MR. NELSON: No.


20 MR. CHAIRMAN: Just want to make sure,

21 that's all.

22 Since there's no one in the audience,

23 building department?

24 MR. SAVEN: This is just a change of a









1 sign face only that was required by the last Motion

2 letter that would be updated and approved for that

3 individual.


5 Board members, comments or discussion?

6 Mr. Brennan?

7 MEMBER BRENNAN: I would move that we

8 continue the variance request with the same

9 stipulation that the variance be limited to this

10 Petitioner only. And it's the same sign?

11 MR. NELSON: Yes.

12 MEMBER BRENNAN: It's already up.

13 MR. NELSON: That's correct.

14 MEMBER BRENNAN: I don't know if he

15 had -- but I have no real issue with this.

16 MR. CHAIRMAN: It's already up.

17 One thing I skipped over, there were

18 14 notices sent, we received four approvals.

19 Board members, further comments or

20 discussions?

21 I guess the chair would look for a

22 Motion in Case, 01-078.

23 MEMBER BRENNAN: I would make that

24 Motion that this Petitioner's request be granted for









1 this tenant only.


3 MR. CHAIRMAN: It's been moved and

4 second to grant the Petitioner's request for his use

5 only.

6 Any further discussion on the Motion?

7 Madam Secretary, would you call the

8 roll, please?

9 SARAH MARCHIONI: Member Brennan?


11 SARAH MARCHIONI: Member Bauer?


13 SARAH MARCHIONI: Member Gray?


15 SARAH MARCHIONI: Member Gronachan?


17 SARAH MARCHIONI: Member Reinke?


19 SARAH MARCHIONI: Member Sanghvi?


21 MR. CHAIRMAN: Sir, your permit has

22 been granted. Wish you the best of luck.

23 MR. NELSON: Thank you for your

24 consideration.









1 MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay. Next item on the

2 agenda is other matters.

3 Do we have anything before us?

4 SARAH MARCHIONI: Just Jaguar would

5 like to come forward with their signage. And as you

6 know, they just have the steel up, so --

7 MR. CHAIRMAN: When they have their

8 mock-ups up, come see us.

9 SARAH MARCHIONI: Yeah, I was saying,

10 I didn't know if you wanted the mock-ups on --

11 MR. CHAIRMAN: Well, I would prefer

12 that they really have the walls, because they can

13 have the walls up, and they're not going to be open

14 for business -- after they get the walls up and they

15 put the mock-ups, they can come before us.

16 That's my opinion.

17 Board members?

18 Give them that directive, and that's

19 what we'll follow.

20 Any other matters to come before the

21 Board?

22 Seeing none, we'll call this meeting

23 adjourned.

24 MEMBER BRENNAN: Thank you.









1 (The meeting was adjourned at

2 9:01 p.m.)


4 Approved: November 5, 2001 _______________________

Sarah Marchioni

Recording Secretary


6 I, Machelle R. Billingslea-

7 Moore, do hereby certify that I have recorded

8 stenographically the proceedings had and testimony taken

9 in the above-entitled matter at the time and place

10 hereinbefore set forth, and I do further certify that the

11 foregoing transcript, consisting of (80) typewritten

12 pages, is a true and correct transcript to the best of my

13 abilities.



16 ________________________________________

17 Machelle R. Billingslea-Moore, Reporter.


19 __________

20 Date