View Agenda for this Meeting


 MONDAY, FEBRUARY 28, 2000, AT 7:30 PM



Mayor Clark called the meeting to order at 7:35 PM


ROLL CALL: Mayor Clark, Mayor ProTem Lorenzo, Council Members Bononi, Crawford, Csordas, DeRoche and Kramer


Member Kramer added Item #5 to Mayor and Council Issues to reschedule Northville Township Meeting.

Mayor Pro Tem Lorenzo removed Item #3 under Mayor and Council Issues and replaced it with M.D.O.T. Garfield Mitigation Site

Mayor Clark added Item #6 Police and Fire Departments Recognition and Item #7 Referral to Ordinance Review Committee for Citywide Nepotism Policy and Enhanced Access to Public Records Policy to Mayor and Council Issues

CM-00-02-028 Moved by DeRoche, seconded by Csordas; CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY:

To approve the agenda as amended.

Vote on CM-00-02-028 Yeas: Clark, Bononi, Crawford, Csordas, DeRoche,

Kramer, Lorenzo

Nays: None




Distinguished Budget Award Presentation-Tim Soave, GFOA Representative

Mr. Soave, member of the Michigan Municipal Finance Officers Board of Directors, said he serves as a State representative from the Governmental Finance Officers Association of the United States and Canada. He travels to the various cities, villages and townships in the State presenting awards from the GFOA for excellence in financial management. He presented the Distinguished Budget Presentation Award to the City of Novi. This award represents a significant achievement by the City, elected officials and financial managers. The award indicated that the budget document had been reviewed and read favorably by an expert panel of independent budget professionals. In order to receive the reward the City had to satisfy nationally recognized guidelines for effective budget presentation. He said less then 1% of all Michigan communities receive this award. This is Novi’s third such award.

Mr. Soave said specific recognition should be given to Novi Budget Analyst Kelly LaLonde for her efforts in developing an award-winning document. This is Ms. LaLonde’s first effort at this and should be commended for such a fine beginning.

This award was given to Kelly LaLonde and Kathy Smith-Roy.

U.S. Census 2000

Isabelle Rodriquez, Tom Dugan and Brian Cone were present asking for City help to increase return rate by 5% and to recruit workers through Cable, newsletters, etc. They can be reached at 888-325-7733.

American Cancer Society "Relay for Life" Event

Barbara Iovan stated the first annual Relay for Life Event would be June 24-25 at the Novi High School. This takes some doing to get together so Wednesday, April 5th there will be a complementary breakfast. Information is available at their web site or by calling 248-557-5353.

Fuerst Property Committee

Kathy Mutch presented the Fuerst Property Committee report; the final report would be presented to Council in June. A progress report was included in Council packets.

Novi Public Library – Re: Building Program

Pat Brunett, President of the Library Board was present and updated Council on the plans the library has for improvements and facilities and services. Brenda Evans was also present to make the presentation. They had, in the past, expressed a desire to Council to acquire and develop the Taft Road property south of the High School. The Library Board passed a resolution authorizing the pursuit of the transfer of the properties based on the values on the appraisals and to put a millage request on the August ballot. They would come back to Council in March with firm proposals and specific ballot language.


1. S.A.D. #155 Twelve Mile Road and other roadway improvements-Section 15 –

Continuation of Public Hearing

Mike Ward, Ramco Gershenson Properties Trust and developers of the Fountain Walk project were present. He advised Council that they purchased all 70 acres and were under their ownership. They were present for the seventh and final resolution.

James Korte said he hoped it was the first of many S.A.D.’s, road improvements and etc. that as a City we are not participating in.

Debbie Bundoff said all the properties are not within that 70 acres and this project is being paid for up to a point. What happens when something goes wrong and it goes over budget? Who is going to pay for it? Would it be attached to the S.A.D.’s even though the S.A.D. properties concerned are only putting in a certain amount of money? She asked who would pay for the overruns? Would they have to come up with the money or would the project stop?

Asa Smith thought a final point in this project had been reached and everyone had done a tremendous job in negotiating to the point of where we are at this time. He trusted that all the proposals and parts of the resolution are in order. He felt this project should move forward and thought if the overruns and expenses occur it could be addressed and these people would be responsible to help pick up the burden so that this project is completed.

2. Vacating Ivy Leaf Walkway

Tony Nowicki said this issue surfaced a number of years ago and the vacating of that particular walkway was put on hold pending the cleanup of wetland that was adjacent to the area. After numerous conversations with the property owner he did cleanup the wetland and the City was advised of that by the neighbors. It was suggested that the matter be brought back before Council for action.

Sarah Gray stated she was in favor of vacating this walkway.

James Korte also stated he was in favor of vacating Ivy Leaf walkway.



Mr. Klaver advised Council of his memo regarding the scheduling of meetings. He confirmed the meeting scheduled for Saturday, March 4th at 12 noon to continue the City Manager Selection Process. He recommended Monday, March 27th at 7 PM for the follow up meeting on the tax abatement issue.

Mayor Clark asked if this date worked for all Council members. There was consensus.

Mr. Klaver reported that their intention was to submit a draft of the proposed budget at the April 3rd meeting.

Mr. Klaver suggested two Saturday meetings to be on April 8th and the 15th from 12 noon to 5 PM and a backup meeting for Thursday, April 20th at 7:00 PM to be cancelled if it is not needed.

Mayor Clark suggested that when departments come in with their proposals that they have everything in order and have not forgotten something. This will be a one time presentation and department heads must be ready because another date for additional presentation will not be offered.

Member DeRoche stated he would be out of town March 27th, which is the tax abatement meeting but would submit his comments prior to the meeting.

Mr. Klaver would bring these dates back to Council for final adoption.

Mr. Klaver requested that the NPDES Storm Water Permit report be added as Item B under Department Reports per Mr. Nowicki.

Mayor Pro Tem Lorenzo asked how many budget meetings there were?

Mr. Klaver said there were two Saturday meetings and one Thursday night meeting.

Mayor Pro Tem Lorenzo questioned whether Council was being too ambitious. She was concerned about quality of the procedure and follow up. She stated she had found that those extra meetings had been needed to get additional background information, etc.

Mayor Clark said that is why he made the point that all of the information in addition to a dollar request was particularly important. He expected all the information to be present when the departments present their case.

Member Kramer said if the initial submission is received on the third, the recommendation is the following Saturday for the first meeting. If it is apparent that the level of progress needed is not being met then the schedule can be adjusted.

Mayor Pro Tem Lorenzo preferred the evenings and the shorter hours. She felt 12 Noon until 5 PM was an extremely long day. She was also concerned with the quality of the work.

Mayor Clark said his experience had been that after 8 or 10 hours working and then coming in in the evening he definitely was not fresh and by 10:30 PM or 11:00 PM intelligent informed decisions were not being made. He wanted to try this process and if it did not work, the schedule could be adjusted accordingly. He felt part of the problem in the past was that too many times things had to come back and too much time was spent on budget items which we were locked into because of contractual or other obligations that could not be changed.

Mayor Clark advised departments to bring all the data and information they are supposed to have ready for Council and to get it to Council in an expeditious manner and to not assume that Council knows. If the departments want Council to know something they should have the information up front. Council does not want to hear "we’ll get back to you."

Member Crawford concurred with the Mayor. He felt it was much better than 3 or 4 hours in the evening after working all day, and it might force the administration to have everything on the table for Council to make that decision on their department when they are in front of us.

Member DeRoche agreed also and felt that it would be more successful and would eliminate unnecessary debate.

Member Csordas agreed and felt it would give the due process and due diligence required and felt it was a more professional and comprehensive way of doing this.

Member Kramer felt 5 hours was a rather short day compared with most of Council working a 9 to 10 hour work day.


Member Bononi agreed to try the new schedule.

Mr. Klaver suggested holding one of the evening dates in reserve in case it is needed.


Ice Arena –Kathy Smith-Roy

Ms. Smith-Roy requested any questions Council might have of them be forwarded to her so they could do research up front and be ready for Saturday. She said they would try to get Council a list of the departments for each date so Council could plan ahead for that and even if they only sent questions regarding those departments it would be helpful.

Ms. Smith-Roy said the ice arena is doing very well and they are very happy with Suburban. The revenue is $170,000 greater than it was for the same time period a year ago. She said they still anticipated a loss at the end of the year.

Member Kramer said a loss was anticipated this year but if Suburban continued at the general pace they have been operating what would she project for next year?

Ms. Smith-Roy said they are hopeful that next year they would be at a break even. She did not have their budget information yet and they had to the middle of March to submit it.

Member Kramer asked if break even meant it included the payment to the interest?

Ms. Smith-Roy said it would include the interest expense.

Member Kramer asked if it was paying to the principle as well.

Ms. Smith-Roy said you could either add back the principle or subtract the depreciation. It is kind of a wash so she left the depreciation in these documents instead of showing the cash flow situation. She was hoping for a break even both cash wise and operating income.

Member Csordas asked if she was confident with their communication level?

Ms. Smith-Roy said very much so. They have been very responsive and every time something has been asked for they have been right there. They are working well with different departments and communicate well with Mr. Davis.

Mayor Pro Tem Lorenzo said last month the loan due to the General Fund was $697,329. This month it is down to $646,935 because Suburban has repaid $50,000 back to the General Fund. However, Ms. Smith-Roy has indicated that the $50,000 would have to go back in as a loan prior to June 30th of this year.

Ms. Smith-Roy said yes because there is a debt service payment due on June 1st. She said they had encouraged Suburban to send any excess cash funds that they have back to the City because the City has better means of investing. She said they are actually charging back to the ice arena the amount that is being lost in investments from the loan to the General Fund. It is a small amount and is what the short-term investment account is earning now. They felt it was appropriate to allocate an interest expense for the money not being used in the General Fund. Ms. Smith-Roy said April, May and June would not be good months for the ice arena in terms of revenue because it is their slowest time of the year. She anticipated that they might need some of the money back that was loaned to them to make that June 1st payment.

Mayor Pro Tem Lorenzo said in the previous memo Ms. Smith-Roy indicated that she anticipated the loan to the General Fund by June 30, 2000 to be upwards of $750,000.

Ms. Smith-Roy thought it was $700,000. She said the $700,000 would be the $650,000 that is there now and approximately the $50,000 more to make the debt service payment.

Mayor Pro Tem Lorenzo said in this month and the previous months there has been a net loss. All of the numbers are in the negative is that correct?

Ms. Smith-Roy said it is. The month of December she knew for sure that was going to happen. There was a program that was already pre-set up before Suburban took over for the time period that the kids were out of school. They committed to continue on with that project. So we knew ahead of time that that would cause them to have a loss in the month of December.

Mayor Pro Tem Lorenzo said then the four months that Suburban has had it ended 1/31 and their net loss has been $8,749.00. Ms. Smith-Roy said that is correct. Mayor Pro Tem Lorenzo said in the previous memo Ms. Smith-Roy gave Council a financial analysis chart and it indicated that working capital was one of the most widely used to represent the health of the City’s ice arena and the total working capital is in the negative. This would indicate that the ice arena is unhealthy. Ms. Smith-Roy said that is correct.

Mayor Pro Tem Lorenzo brought this up not to emphasize the negative but to get the correct accurate information out to the public. She said the information right now is negative.

Ms. Smith-Roy said that is correct but Suburban has done a good job.

Mayor Pro Tem Lorenzo agreed Suburban has done an outstanding job with what they were given and this is not a reflection on Suburban. However, this does not take away from the fact that this is an unhealthy situation.

Member Kramer asked if when talking net profit and loss does that include the interest expense?

Ms. Smith-Roy said that is correct.

Member Kramer said on operations they are making money. Ms. Smith-Roy said that is correct.

He said they are just not making enough to cover the rate at which we have written off the interest expense at this point. She said that is correct. He said they are continuing to make progress and there would be an annual assessment in June. She said yes there would be an audit as part of our normal audit process for the City.



B. NPDES Storm Water Permit

Mr. Nowicki said Mayor Pro Tem Lorenzo has requested information or presentation on the public informational aspect or component of our NPDES Permit. He introduced David Maurice, the City Data Management Specialist, who is coordinating the NPDES Permit compliance efforts. Mr. Maurice also handles all of the G.I.S. work.

Mr. Maurice said Dana McGowan from J.C.K. and Associates and Karen Shaw of Tilton and Associates representing RPL, which is a Rouge Program office, would assist him.

Mr. Maurice provided handouts and documentation. Included in the documentation are the tentative schedules of activities that are required for the City to complete under the terms of the contract with the RPL. There is a glossary of terms that are involved with the project, draft copies of letters that would be sent out to the public regarding this project and this would all be explained as he went through the presentation. There are a couple of maps displaying how they reached the generation of the stake holder list, a copy of the Novi NPDES permit application that was submitted to the Michigan Department of Environmental Quality back in January of 1999 and was approved soon after. Mr. Maurice said there were also some proposed ordinance change recommendations.

Ms. McGowan said NPDES stood for National Pollutant Discharge Elimination System and it started out in the late 1970’s with a Federal lawsuit. The Environmental Protection Agency and the Michigan Department of Environmental Quality filed suit against 48 communities and three county agencies including Oakland, Washtenaw and Wayne County. The 48 communities and the three counties contributed storm water run off to the Rouge River. As a result of the lawsuit there was Federal grant money given to Wayne County to start cleaning up the Rouge. First they went after the point source polluters and then they looked at the effects of the combined sewer overflows. Novi does not have combined sewers. Once they addressed these two issues there was still another issue that was affecting the river which was basically the non-point source pollution. This is the rain that hits and runs off the roofs, across the lawns, drive ways, across the streets and into the storm sewer and with that comes a lot of pollution.

Federal grant money had been sent to Wayne County to set up a National Wet Weather Demonstration Project for the Rouge River to send out grant money to the various communities to help clean up the Rouge. This is what the final efforts are to restore the Rouge.

Ms. McGowan said next is the Clean Water Act which is a revised Federal Regulation that set up the National Pollutant Discharge Elimination System. Phase I was to regulate communities that were larger than 100,000 who had separate storm sewer systems. There are only five communities in Michigan who had to apply for the Phase I Regulations. The Phase II Regulations were passed in October of 1999 and would be required in November of 2001. These Phase II Regulations would affect the City of Novi because it is smaller than 100,000 and has separate storm sewer systems. She said the E.P.A., M.D.E.Q., Wayne County and the Rouge Weather National Demonstration Project worked together to come up with a general storm water permit that would meet these Phase II Regulations.

Then the work started with a cooperative effort with the Regulatory Agencies but also with the communities and the County Agencies to try to solve the problem within the Rouge Watershed. This permit was created for the State of Michigan; it is a voluntary permit and an innovative approach that meets these requirements. The work within the Rouge was the first within the State to apply for this permit and probably the first in the Country to meet the requirements of the NPDES Phase II.

Ms. McGowan said as part of the general permit requirement there were five or six requirements. The first was the Public Education Plan which is a policy set forth by the City that said the problem would be addressed this way, by talking to the public using this resource or that resource and getting information out. The M.D.E.Q. had specific requirements that had to be addressed. Next was the Illicit Discharge Elimination Plan, which was an illegal connection to the storm sewer that dumped pollutants into the River, a failed septic system or someone dumping illegally. These had to be in place at the time of submission of the application for the general permit. Once approved the individual communities would receive their certificate of coverage.

Next, as part of the process there is a Sub-Watershed Management Plan which is a tool that gets the message across as to what the goals and the problems and the state of the river are and how to clean it up and how to protect it. The City of Novi and the middle one Sub-Watershed are in the headwaters area and the water quality is very good compared to some of the lower watersheds where it is fully developed and there is bad water quality. So each Sub-Watershed Management Plan would be different.

Next is the Public Participation Plan to get the public involved in the Sub-Watershed Management Plan. This has already been prepared by each of the Sub-Watersheds with the help of the Rouge Program office to get a plan of attack on how to get the public involved.

Finally, the Storm Water Pollution Prevention Initiative which is a plan of attack with specific examples of how the City would address storm water issues.

Mr. Maurice said monies were made available for projects that the City could take advantage of. Novi has taken advantage of what is available. Novi has projects like the G.I.S. Public Awareness, Stream Bank Stabilization Project and the Solar Control Blanket Project. These are round one projects, which are 90/10 projects, which means that the money and cost that are incurred are reimbursable up to 90% of the cost for the project itself by the RPL.

Tonight we are going to talk about the Michigan Voluntary General Storm Water Permit. To date the staff has been attending Illicit Discharge Elimination Program Workshops. They have learned about detecting illicit discharges to the storm drain system, what DPW workers and staff can do to make this project a success. They had also been attending S.W.A.G., Storm Water Advisory Groups, meetings and each sub-watershed within the Rouge River watershed has its own advisory group. A sub-watershed is the smaller part of the watershed itself. Novi falls into two sub-watersheds but is mainly the middle one sub-watershed district in the Rouge River. However, there are some areas in the City in the upper sub-watershed district.

There is a tentative schedule of activities that need to be implemented under the permit itself in Council packets. He felt it could be used as a template for other communities to guide them. A stake holder list has also been compiled which is the names and addresses of all the board members and committee members in the City of Novi. It also includes a digital address list of all the businesses in the City and all the businesses that are members of the Chamber of Commerce. This list would be used to contact residents, businesses, Council Members, etc. and to give them information regarding the project.

He said they are planning news articles and their first public workshop, which is for March.

Ms. McGowan said the RPO was developing the Sub-Watershed Management Plan for both the middle and upper. It states the goals and objectives for protecting and restoring the Rouge River within the Sub-Watershed. It sets about to make goals on how to fix or protect the resources that we have. The Public Participation Plan is a process that requires input from the public and they would use the stake holders list, the web site, cable TV, newletters, etc. to reach them. They would contact the schools to get the students involved through various organizations like Friends of the Rouge which would be a way to get them involved in a classroom session and then out into the River.

The Storm Water Pollution Prevention Initiative is a plan of attack to reduce the amount of pollutants entering the Rouge River. It includes a list of initiatives to be used by the City of Novi including public education, illicit discharge elimination and best management practices. This will be developed by the end of the general permit coverage, which is in 2001.

Ms. McGowan said their recommendations are to:

1. Amend some existing ordinances to meet the M.D.E.Q. requirements of the permit.

2. Create a Storm Water Task Force Committee or SWFRC involvement

3. Encourage the Public to get involved in activities like:

River Day and Household Hazardous Waste Day

Public Workshops and Public Information Meetings

Mr. Maurice asked for support of this project. He said commitment was needed from Council and Board Members and staff members. It involves educating the public and city employees. He said this would be an evolving process that would require input from elected officials, general public and the D.E.Q. and they hoped to carry out all of the activities under the permit that are required.

Karen Shaw, Tilton and Associates, who is the coordinator for the communities in the middle one sub-watershed said the City of Novi is quickly becoming a leader in the sub-watershed and she congratulated Novi for going forward with the project and being so heavily involved in it. She encouraged them and Council to support them in their continued work.

Member Bononi requested a brief quarterly report to keep everyone updated on this project. She asked how the illicit discharges would be located particularly during dry weather periods and what that meant?

Mr. Maurice said as part of the project and a related project which is Illicit Discharge Data Development Project is a pilot project that we might use and other communities might use in the Rouge River Watershed to locate illicit discharges to the storm drain system. So far dry weather visual screening has been done. They get out there in dry weather and see what type of flows are out there and what type of water quality is at those particular points. The Illicit Discharge Data Development Project allowed him to go out in the field with some DPW members to map out outfalls to the storm drain system, photographs were taken of the outfalls and hot linked those into the G.I.S. to particular data layers that they created. They have also, through the G.I.S. Public Awareness Project, contracted with Erim International out of Ann Arbor to digitize the storm drain network. The completion date for the project is around the middle of April where there will be the storm drainpipes, outfalls, manholes, inlet and outlets all mapped out and on the G.I.S. The DPW staff will be able to pull the information up and find things they need to find and use it as a tool to record problems and record maintenance information and to assist in locating illicit discharges to the storm drain system. There are things that can be done regarding illicit discharges like smoke and dye testing.

Member Bononi asked if they had the resources to accomplish this vital task?

Mr. Maurice said it was a big job and he was not sure that they did. He said there is no outline as to what would be required. Next week Council would receive certain dollar amounts that will outline what is involved, what the City costs are, what the matches are from the RPO for this but it is going to take the commitment of citizens, staff and boards and committees to get involved in some way.

Member Bononi said she would be very interested in having that information brought forward whenever there is a resource need that he or a member of his team has so that Council would be appraised of making available those things needed to accomplish the task.

She asked the status of the Inter-Agency Agreement and what needed to be done in order to have the document signed?

Mr. Maurice said it would be in Council packets next week for their review and comment. It outlined details of the Public Education Plan, Illicit Discharge Elimination Plan and the Sub-Watershed Management Plan.

CM-00-02-029 Moved by Bononi, seconded by Lorenzo; CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY:

That the team of Mr. Nowicki and all collaborators provide a brief

Quarterly report on this item.


Mayor Pro Tem Lorenzo echoed the comments and accolades that Member Bononi provided Mr. Maurice and staff. She suggested that it was important when talking about the Sub-Watersheds that they also talk about the wetlands and streams that are also a vital point and integral part of that. Many people will notice the wetland or stream in their back yard, a.k.a. drains, so those streams and drains are important to call out wetlands and streams in these as opposed to just the Rouge.

Mr. Maurice thought that was a very good point and not only does the City of Novi fall within the Rouge River Watershed but the western part of the City is in the Huron River Watershed. Some of these activities that are a part of this project would eventually be a part of protecting the Huron River Watershed.

Mayor Pro Tem Lorenzo said April 22nd is a Household Hazardous Waste Collection Day

in Wixom that we could all participate in in the City of Novi. They will also be held on May 6th in Farmington and Farmington Hills, Southfield on May 20th and Lyon Township on June 3rd and ours in Novi on September 9th and again in Southfield on October 14th. There are six Household Hazardous Waste Days open to the City of Novi residents.

Mr. Maurice said these are great vehicles to get in touch with the public, to get them information and signed up for activities to get them involved with the project and they plan on doing that.

Vote on CM-00-02-029 Yeas: Clark, Bononi, Crawford, Csordas, DeRoche,

Kramer, Lorenzo

Nays: None



Sarah Gray, 133 Maudlin, said she lived on the headwaters of the Rouge middle branch and suggested the headwaters be treated, as we would like to see the river treated. She would like to see the City amend the Storm Water Ordinance to take the lakes out as detention basins and start protecting them.

Ms. Gray stated she had not received a response from Administration on whether the lot split granted by the City was an appropriate one or not. Mr. Lemmon contends that it was and it involved Lots #57, 58 and 59. She submitted a letter asking for a response within two weeks.

James Korte, Shawood Lake, said Walled Lake is the headwaters of the middle Rouge. He asked when someone would understand that Shawood Lake was not the backup but that it flowed into Walled Lake. Now it is Shawood Lake starting that whole situation. What is someone going to do about all the disgusting slop that is running into Shawood Lake. When is someone going to understand that the Sandstone Vistas project, now new Decker Road, new Novi Road and Old Novi Road area had never been properly done with any kind of soil erosion. It was J.C.K. that allowed all of the diesel fuel during the S.A.D. water main on Austin to go directly into the Shawood canal. When would someone understand until these people are out of there and get someone in that can do what has to be done none of this is going to work.

Mr. Korte said he had complained for three years of the specific redo on storm water that goes from the area of the vet clinic, the old Iva St. area. They still allow the dog feces and urine to run directly in the beehive top so that there are floaters of dog feces in Shawood Lake. When is it going to be corrected?

Mr. Korte said a water quality study was done by J.C.K. and it was presented to the lakes area last fall and Mr. Korte asked what they were doing with the Iva entry? They said "what Iva water entry?" Mr. Korte said the one that J.C.K. planned poorly. Someone is doing water quality studies and did not know where the only major man made inlet on Shawood Lake is.

Mr. Korte said all of this work was a waste of time because nothing is going to change.

Mr. Bernard, representing Evergreen III, Inc., stated he had got involved in the N & Y land developers revision and reviewed it in its entirety and wanted to address a few points about it. Regarding the letter dated February 23rd to Mayor Clark on the subject of revisions to the concept plan Mr. Bernard said it was revised. The number of residential units was reduced from 196 to 182 or 7%. The overall reduction in commercial square footage went from 33,900 sq. ft. to 31,800 sq. ft. which is a reduction of 2,100 sq. ft. or another 6% and the open space increased 1%. It was further brought out that specific commercial uses were identified which would reduce the potential impact on Main Street. He said from a planning standpoint it is not necessarily the focus of the impact on Main Street but he believed in the Master Plan there was an overwhelming amount of existing retail now in the surrounding area. He wanted to look at it objectively as what is the impact of the surrounding existing commercial development and their quest to find new tenants.

It was pointed out that the eastern commercial building would be a drug store or a bank, the western commercial building would be a special gourmet market and the middle commercial building would have a cleaners, ice cream, pizza, flowers and etc. We are aware of the fact that Vic’s Market has been sold and the transaction should close in about two weeks. He liked to think that that is the gourmet specialty store. We are all aware of one world market and he thought that Council was aware of the fact that they had sought to come up with a cleaners and the specialty uses that have been described. It was interesting to say that they had sound urban planning principles that encouraged the inclusion of residential units in a downtown urban district. So, about 7/10ths of a mile from the new Master Plan downtown is the urban downtown area. A drug store sounds like a non-competitive land use but anything can be bought there from clothing, baked beans, bread, beer, wine and alcohol and it is a full service store that is competitive to whatever is in the area. The western building gourmet market appeared that that particular use is nearly saturated in the market place and anything from a gourmet standpoint can be bought in Vic’s Market.

Mr. Bernard did not understand the selected smaller uses that were identified, as they could not be accommodated at Town Center or the Main Street Novi development. It appeared to him that the surrounding commercial uses could accommodate any of those uses that wanted to locate here.

He said they believed that the need in the surrounding area was for residential. It is a little awkward that Mr. Nona is a good, long-term friend of Mr. Chen and Mr. Chen informed Mr. Bernard that they are very capable and would do an excellent job in this particular development. Mr. Bernard felt it should be done for town houses and he would support that. He was flattered they were invited to study this. The bottom line in the worst case scenario if any commercial uses were chosen for this 15 acre development might be for a combination acre and a half drug store/pharmacy and maybe a bank.

Mr. Bernard said they seriously question turning Grand River into a series of strip malls, which seems to work against real sound planning practices. In a sense they are pleased to speak on behalf of the proposed revision and said they would like to see it go residential. They would also like to see, from a planning standpoint, that Grand River does not become a hodge podge of strip centers fronting on Grand River with developers that entitle them mixed use.

Lisa Blasiola, 22747 Clearwater Ct., President of the Novi Jaycees, said they started 1999 with 21 members and ended the year with 43. She said they had rescheduled the Distinguished Service Awards to April 8th at Vic’s Market in the upstairs dining area. There will be articles and information sent out for nominations and if anyone has any questions call the Novi Hotline at 348-NOVI. The next general membership meeting is March 13th at 7 PM in Room B of Parks and Recreation at the Civic Center. She thanked everyone for their support in 1999.

Toni Nagy, Cranbrooke, thanked Mayor and Council for the opportunity to meet the three finalists for the City Manager’s position. She believed on paper each candidate had the credentials to fill the position. However, Mr. Pierce seemed to be involved in some controversy in his past and present position as well as the fact that he did not seem to have a real desire to become our City Manager.

She felt Mr. Vanderpool was definitely anxious to fill the position, however, although he had good verbal skills he impressed her as a numbers man. She gathered he would be very good at setting budgets but he also impressed her as more of the same meaning he would continue making Novi a developers delight. She did not believe he had the people skills that would be needed for the City Manager’s position. Mr. Vanderpool is young with good credentials but she believed Novi would be a stepping stone in his career and did not think he would be with Novi in ten years.

Ms. Nagy’s choice for City Manager was Mr. Helwig. Mr. Helwig has excellent credentials and she believed excellent people skills, which was evidenced by the ease with which he conducted himself at the reception. She felt he would find a balance between the developers need and the needs of the City and its residents. She felt his answer to the question regarding tax rebates versus incentives clearly indicated that the interest of the City and its residents are foremost in this thoughts and that he has a clear understanding of these issues.

Mr. Helwig also possessed an air of sophistication and polish, which she believed would be a benefit when dealing with State and County officials as well as the many developers that approach our City. He has good verbal skills and seems to have good insight as evidenced by his question to Council regarding a lack of trust between the Administration and the residents.

Ms. Nagy believed Mr. Helwig would soon win the confidence of the City employees and re-establish a sense of trust with the employees, Council and the residents. She said that he would be a long term City Manager.

Ms. Nagy commented that it would save the City approximately $6,000 if the Street Tree Bid was awarded to Panoramic Landscaping, Item #14 under Matters for Council Action Part II, who is the low bidder.

Art Cervi, 28331 Haggerty Rd., said he was not present to speak out against the removal of trees in the OST Zoning but rather for removal, where necessary, in accordance with policies already set. Mr. Cervi was concerned because he had observed, at a Planning Commission meeting in January, two developers submitting site plans for approval. These projects were in the north 12 Mile/Haggerty area.

The first developer breezed through with little or no opposition for two office buildings to be erected on the site. There were no woodland/wetland problems because he had already cleared the land and leveled it.

The second developer has 22 acres on Haggerty Road and wants to erect four large office tech buildings on his site. He was denied approval because of his encroachment on the woodlands. The developer was asked to reconfigure his property to eliminate one or two of the buildings. The reason stated for the denial was if they allowed the removal of the trees the City would be setting a precedent.

Mr. Cervi said let us please use common sense here. This particular area is now an island sandwiched between the M-5 Connector and Farmington Hills. He could not think of no other area in Novi that would have any less impact on its residents and believed that was why it was zoned that way in the first place. This should be a win, win situation for the City, developer and the residents.

Regarding the trees, the precedent has already been set. One need only to look around. Meadowbrook 12 ½ Mile to 13 Mile west to Decker the trees are gone and a new subdivision is going in. Across the street is a new Walled Lake School and again no trees. The southwest corner of 12 Mile and Meadowbrook is cleared and Meadowbrook north of the freeway is now cleared. Removal of trees is allowed south of Grand River on the east side for the new subdivision and across the street the City is building a Senior Housing Project on what is a landfill and deemed unbuildable. Along Haggerty Road south of 12 Mile two office buildings have been erected using almost 100% of the land. The trees are gone. The development north of 12 Mile cleared the land and leveled it for their building with no opposition. The M-5 Connector took out trees and wetlands and changed the topography of our land. When it was proposed one of the concerns was whether or not a service type road would be put in along there. We got a resounding no and it was Councilman Bob Schmid that had the same concerns. He said they were told there would be no road along the east side of M-5 and today there is a new road along the connector.

Mr. Cervi said when he questioned the new road he was told that when the City initiated the new zoning they changed the ball game. Many changes have taken place and he was sure more should continue as development in OST continued. A few homes on Haggerty south of 13 Mile Road have already removed all the trees from their property. How were they allowed to do this?

Mr. Cervi applauded the City for its farsightedness to rezone but he believed they could not pick and chose who could develop as long as they met the zoning criteria. One project can not be stalled while allowing another to go full steam ahead. It must be fair. He said he loved nature but he was also a realist and the Fortune 500 companies who want to locate in Novi are not going to come if they are shown they can buy the land but they can not build on it. See how fast they will go to other cities.

Please let common sense prevail. Are there no trees coming down for the new mall? What about when 12 Mile Road west of Novi is widened? OST should be given latitude to attract new companies. The precedent has already been set. Let’s do right by the Novi residents. We need businesses to relocate to our area.

Matt Quinn requested to be heard when Item 10 came up on the agenda regarding Ordinance Amendment 18.160.

Debbie Bundoff, Novi/12 Mile Road, said she had concerns regarding under Matters for Council Action – Part I Items #2, #3 and #4. She said all were tied together and she has had concerns since the beginning. This self-serving, self-benefiting project could go forward because of the need this City mandated that in order to construct a new mall project the road had to be improved. We are not only getting a 12 Mile Road improvement through this but also improving at a portion of money being picked up by the developer for his own projects; which are West Oaks I and II and the new mall. The majority of the roads to be improved are within his development, his future development or adjacent to it. She wished that prior to thinking about having the consultants, attorneys and staff review their proposal to be the contractor for this development of the road that some questions are answered. Who picks up the bill for money that comes down the road later when the project runs out of money? What happens if they have to stop because the limit is reached? Where are the boundaries? Are the plans seen ten years ago what is going to be done on 12 Mile eventually or is it only a portion of it?

Ms. Bundoff said the County made a commitment to do the bridgework on Grand River very soon. They have plans for Ten Mile and for Novi Road. She felt this is premature. If it is widened that is one thing but a boulevard that might necessarily be premature because it would not be boulevarded in some spots and would be in others. She asked for answers and plans that would be more set before going any further.

CONSENT AGENDA (Approval/Removals)

CM-00-02-030 Moved by Crawford, seconded by Csordas; MOTION CARRIED:

To approve the Consent Agenda as presented.

Vote on CM-00-02-030 Yeas: Clark, Crawford, Csordas, DeRoche, Kramer

Nays: None

Absent: Bononi, Lorenzo

Approve Minutes of:

January 27, 2000 Special Meeting

January 29, 2000 Special Meeting

January 31, 2000 Special Meeting

February 2, 2000 Special Meeting

February 7, 2000 Regular Meeting

February 14, 2000 Regular Meeting

February 15, 2000 Special Meeting

Schedule an Executive Session for March 6, 2000, at 6:30 p.m., to discuss union negotiations.

Schedule an Executive Session to follow March 6, 2000 Regular Council Meeting to discuss property acquisition.

Approval of Resolution Revising the Water Unit Factor Chart and the Sewer Unit Factor Chart

Approval of Traffic Control Order 00-32 prohibiting parking on the southwest corner of Eleven Mile Road and Taft.

Approval of Temporary Construction Easement from Stonehenge Condominium Association for Stonehenge Lift Station Improvements renovation project.

Renewal of Arcade License for Novi Bowl, 21700 Novi Road.

Renewal of Arcade License for Mr. B’s Farm, 24555 Novi Road.

Renewal of Pawn Broker License and Precious Items Dealer License for Weinstein Jewelers, 41990 Grand River

Approval of Budget Amendment 2000-7 Restructuring the Information Technology Dept.

Approval of Revised Investment Policy

Award bid for Elevator Maintenance Contract to Elevator Technology, Inc., the low bidder, in the amount of $1,190.00

Approval to purchase two (2) replacement pick-up trucks for the Water Department, in the amount of $32,770.94, from Snethkamps Lansing Dodge through the State of Michigan Joint Purchasing Program

Approval to purchase one (1) Thermal Imager from Alert Firefighting Equipment Co. through a joint bid process with the Down River Mutual Aid Association

Request for permission to apply for and accept a grant of up to $4,000 from Detroit Edison Tree Planting Program.

Approval of Final Pay Estimate No. 6 and Final Balancing Change Order No. 3 for the 1998/1999 Bituminous Paving Improvements Program

Award of Operational Environmental Audit to McLaren Hart, Inc. the low bidder, in the amount of $9,800

Approve Claims and Accounts:

Warrant No 565

Warrant No. 566


1. Adoption of Resolution vacating Ivy Leaf Walkway in Idlemere Park Subdivision

CM-00-02-031 Moved by Crawford, seconded by DeRoche; MOTION CARRIED:

To adopt the Resolution vacating Ivy Leaf Walkway in Idlemere

Park Subdivision.

Vote on CM-00-02-031 Yeas: Clark, Crawford, Csordas, DeRoche, Kramer

Nays: None

Absent: Bononi, Lorenzo

2. Approval of Resolution No. 7, SAD #155, Twelve Mile Road and Other Roadway


CM-00-02-032 Moved by Csordas, seconded by Crawford; MOTION CARRIED:

To approve Resolution No. 7, SAD #155, 12 Mile & Other roadway


Vote on CM-00-02-032 Yeas: Clark, Crawford, Csordas, DeRoche, Kramer

Nays: None

Absent: Bononi, Lorenzo

3. Request for adoption of Resolution, Re: Notice of Intent to Issue Special Assessment

Bonds, in the amount of $8,700,000

CM-00-02-033 Moved by Kramer, seconded by Crawford; MOTION CARRIED:

To adopt Resolution-Notice of Intent to Issue Special Assessment

Bonds in the amount of $8,700,000.

Roll call vote on CM-00-02-033 Yeas: Lorenzo, Kramer, DeRoche, Csordas, Crawford,


Nays: Bononi

4. Request for authorization for staff, consultants and attorneys to review the Ramco-

Gershenson proposal to serve as the contractor for the Twelve Mile Road and Other

Roadway Improvements Project and prepare a draft agreement for Council


CM-00-02-034 Moved by Csordas, seconded by Crawford; MOTION CARRIED:

To authorize staff, consultant and attorneys to review Ramco-

Gershenson proposal to serve as the contractor for 12 Mile and

Other Roadway Improvements Project and prepare a draft agreement

for Council consideration.


Member Kramer requested that the report also include the definition of the City’s role with regard to the quality of the project and inspection.

Member Crawford stated he assumed that would include any cost overruns also and not at the City’s expense or liability.

Mayor Pro Tem Lorenzo stated she would prefer that the City have nothing to do with the construction of these roads. She said Mr. Nowicki’s February 23rd memo indicated that J.C.K. and Associates would remain as the construction engineers for the project. She asked if J.C.K. was the preference of Mr. Ward of Ramco-Gershenson?

Mr. Nowicki said on the S.A.D. they would be disbursing funds that run through the City and need someone employed by the City to keep track of that and oversee the disbursement of those funds and to make sure that the construction draws are appropriate. Additionally, Council Member Kramer brought up the issue of quality control and that is in part what the construction engineer does. They assure that the project is constructed in accordance with the design, that it meets the standards and ordinances and that the product paid for is the product delivered.

Mayor Pro Tem Lorenzo asked if they were involved with the construction of the road?

Mr. Nowicki said they inspect it and are the quality control oversight.

Mayor Pro Tem Lorenzo stated she would like an acknowledgement from P.L.C. that they realize that in terms of the establishment of the S.A.D. that any dispute arising out of the S.A.D. would be through the Michigan Tax Tribunal as opposed to Circuit Court.

Mr. Fried said that is correct. This is under the ordinance and the ordinance requires all appeals to go to the Tax Tribunal.

Mayor Pro Tem Lorenzo said she would like it in the agreement that they acknowledge that specific fact. She requested the motion be amended to make sure that is a stipulation of the agreement.

Member Crawford said they are coming back with a recommendation so that would be taken into consideration and put in. The motion is for them to prepare this.

Mayor Pro Tem Lorenzo said including that particular proviso.

Member Csordas accepted the amendment to the motion.

Mayor Pro Tem Lorenzo asked for the status of the gap east of Twelve Oaks Mall?

Mr. Nowicki said they did apply for the grant and he believed it was on the funding Transportation Improvement Program for the next T.I.P. Mr. Nowicki said he would get back with her on the dates.

Mayor Pro Tem Lorenzo asked if confirmation had been received in writing? Mr. Nowicki said yes. She asked if anyone had spoken to any representatives of Taubman Company yet? Mr. Nowicki said those overtures have been made and they are still working with them.

Member Bononi stated she was not happy with any of this. She was not happy that we would construct this road, that we hold the ultimate liability with regard to the full faith and credit of the project and certainly not happy with giving this responsibility to Ramco-Gershenson.

Vote on CM-00-02-034 Yeas: Clark, Crawford, Csordas, DeRoche, Kramer, Lorenzo

Nays: Bononi

5. NOVAPLEX SP99032 Woodland Permit Appeal from the Novi Planning Commission

denial of a Woodlands Permit for the Novaplex Office Park located in Section 12, west

side of Haggerty Road, north of Twelve Mile Road

Matt Quinn was present for the Woodlands Appeal from the Planning Commissions denial. He asked if Council would agree to have a sub-committee of Council appointed along with the City Attorney and Ms. Lemke to give them the opportunity to sit down and see if anything could be resolved regarding the pending matters of this appeal. Then come back within 30 days to Council and either seek any stipulation of agreement that had been made or proceed with the appeal at that time.

CM-00-02-035 Moved by Csordas, seconded by Crawford; CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY:

To adjourn this matter for 30 days to be studied by a committee consisting of Mr. Quinn on behalf of his client, Mr. Fried’s office on behalf of the City and two members of City Council and other relevant staff.



Mayor Pro Tem Lorenzo was concerned about what two or three members of Council could accomplish that the seven-member board could not or Ms. Lemke in conjunction with the developer could not. She said if Council chose to form a committee she would volunteer her services. However, she preferred the Council operate as a committee of the whole and hear this project out in its entirety.

Member DeRoche agreed and did not know that a sub-committee would be the way to go but would certainly nominate her if that was what Council chose. He thought Mr. Quinn was very intuitive and knew the way the political winds here in Novi blew and maybe Council might not be able to resolve this issue here.

Member Bononi agreed with Member DeRoche that our existing traditional process should not be circumvented. She did not want to see Council do this and end up designing people’s projects or solving people’s problems in committee. She felt it would be difficult turning anyone else down that asked for the same consideration.

Member Kramer said he perceived a willingness to generate some alternatives something that is not within the material at this point. He suggested Council take a few minutes to pick up the comments from each Council Member so it could go into the consideration for developing alternatives. Whatever they come up with he thought if it was substantially revised and a worthwhile alternative, they might chose to take it back to the Planning Commission for support and approval before bringing it back to Council.

Member Crawford asked if the suggestion was that if there is a committee formed here that it goes back to the Planning Commission after that committee and then comes back through the process? He asked if there was an approved site plan?

Mr. Quinn said the reason the site plan was not approved was the denial of the woodlands permit.

Member Crawford asked how a woodlands permit can be approved or denied if there is no site plan to base it on? Does the woodlands come first?

Mr. Quinn said it did because without a woodlands permit they are not allowed to place the structures within the woodlands.

Mayor Pro Tem Lorenzo said there are two processes involved here. The Planning Commission which denied their site plan and woodland permit and then to the City Council for appeal. Is Council giving them a third process or is the purpose of the "sub-committee" to go back and talk to these folks, come back to this Council and it is still at the Council’s table.

Mayor Clark agreed and thought Mr. Quinn was saying was that he would like to form a committee to see if a viable solution could be worked out that he could then bring back to the full Council.

Mr. Quinn said that is correct.

Mayor Clark said in the event that a solution can not be worked out nothing has been circumvented or changed. He is still in the same process, with the same requirements and then he would have the full hearing regarding his appeal of the denial of the woodlands permit.

Mr. Fried said that was correct.

Member Bononi said if that is the direction Council should chose she had two comments with regard to the appropriateness of the OST Zoning District with regard to removal of regulated woodlands. There is nothing in the OST Ordinance that made reference to the fact of relinquishing any applicant the responsibility of receiving any permitting that is required in addition. She did not think that argument held water.

Member Bononi said the woodlands regulation was in place at the time that this property was optioned, leased, bought or whatever. It is like a buyer beware. Frankly, from the standpoint of the experience and the sophistication of this developer she found it hard to buy that they did not know the woodlands were there. She did not think the argument floated that because OST is being promoted that Council should allow the wholesale destruction of quality woodlands. She wanted these comments included with whoever decided to serve on the committee.

Member Crawford felt Mr. Cervi’s comments were well made with the point that some common sense needed to prevail. He thought there were compromises that could be made on the part of the developer and if they are willing to delay 30 days to see if something could be worked out he thought it was a good process. Perhaps some common sense on both sides could fit here and we could have what we want with OST the tax base and they could have the development that they want.

Member DeRoche said his second nomination was Member Crawford and Member Crawford accepted.

Mayor Clark said he read Mr. Quinn’s letter of January 28th, which set out the history of the project, the OST District and the concerns he has on behalf of his client. He said Beztak was not being treated any different than anyone else on a similar basis. There was a comment in the letter about being taxed on the wooded land on their property but Mayor Clark said it was not any different than the homeowner with a large stand of trees on their lot. They might not be able to cut down their trees but they are still going to pay tax on the whole property.

Also, before this was zoned OST there were ten acres of woodlands on the property. When it was zoned OST the developer immediately bought that parcel of property with full knowledge that in this City there is a woodlands/wetland ordinances and that there were trees on the property.

Mayor Clark said Council is saying the Site Plan had not been approved because the woodlands permit was not granted and the only thing that has been denied is the project that is presently proposed. He agreed with his approach and thought it was a common sense approach. He said Council wanted to work in a spirit of cooperation and not antagonism and was willing to work with Mr. Quinn’s client to see if there was some common ground to work this out. He felt it made sense to put it over for 30 days to do that.

Roll call vote on CM-00-03-035 Yeas: Bononi, Crawford, Csordas, DeRoche, Kramer,

Lorenzo, Clark

Nays: None

6. Request from N & Y Properties and Triangle Development Company to receive

direction or consensus from City Council with regard to their proposal to amend

consent judgment for property located at northwest corner of Meadowbrook Road and

Grand River (aka Grand Meadowbrook)

Matt Quinn, representing N & Y Properties said they had been here previously and N & Y Properties took the comments, went back and looked at the economics of the projects and are here this evening with a revised proposed plan.

Mr. Quinn said there is a reduction of commercial buildings from four to three. In the context of what might go in those buildings the corner building is still proposed to be a bank or drug store. The second building would be a mixed use commercial building with services that would support the condominium townhouses and the residents that would live there. In the packet is a study of what type of resident would purchase there and it said that 45% to 55% would be senior citizens and the same percentage would be single nest professionals. He thought it was unusual that in a similar project like this there were no purchases with anyone that had children at the time they bought. The townhouses are in the $180,000 to $200,000 range that would be used by seniors as their final home where they do not have to take care of lawns and young professionals who need tax deductions.

He said the latest thought on the specialty food market is that these are totally prepared foods

that these seniors and/or young professionals would buy prepared and take home to eat. This is

still perceived by Mr. Chen to be in direct competition to them. Mr. Quinn said he did not perceive it to be that and was beside himself when they talk about the reduction he is proposing in residential and how somehow that would have an impact on their project. They should want residential on this site and they have the audacity to come to Council and say they only reduced it by 14 or 16. What business is it of theirs? He said just perceive where they are coming from on their intent on why they are objecting to this. They would have Council believe that the entire City of Novi should stop all commercial development until they are built out and that is not fair to other developers in the community or to the tax payers in this community.

Mr. Quinn said the green space has been increased to 27% of the total area. The multiples have been reduced to something that is economically viable for this project given the reduction of the commercial.

Mr. Quinn said everything else is still there. The compliance with the Grand River Corridor Design Study and it is still a very nice project even with the reductions in size.

Gary Wilson, McKenna and Associates, explained some of the changes. There were two residential buildings eliminated. However, they were careful to keep the character of the project. This type of project the location of the buildings create the street character and frame the open space which is very important. They still kept a framed courtyard but driving into the project it would still have a sense of openness and open space. The other opportunity was up in the northwest corner to eliminate units and they have designated that as a play area and it opens that entire area up.

The third was eliminating the commercial building giving them an opportunity to do an entry feature and to create a boulevard and give a break in open space along Grand River. This is lower density than was recommended for the Gateway District. They had not recalculated the numbers but this would be roughly half the traffic the Consent Judgement Plan allowed because this is townhouse development and the per unit traffic generation is not as significant as single family and commercial.

Mr. Wilson said he did not believe this would compete with the Main Street Center. The types of tenants attracted to these types of locations are not those who would go into a Main Street project. They want to keep some synergy and some availability of commercial services for these residents. This project would generate a significant market that would benefit the area. This does not have strip commercial development and that type of development can be controlled with the Gateway Ordinance.

Mr. Wilson said they have four acres of open space and felt it was very reasonable and very good open space development. They have eliminated some of the front drive parking courts to increase the area of the open space.

He responded to a comment regarding the screening and the transition with the Soccer Zone in the rear. They thought this would work from a transitional standpoint because this is the type of land use, moderate density housing, that they often plan to use as a transition so the land use

makes sense. Also, the buffer even though it is not large would be planted in such a way that it would create an opaque green wall and would not be visible to the screening that they had provided. The units back onto Soccer Zone. It would not be appropriate or desirable if they fronted onto Soccer Zone. The unit’s parking lot is adjacent to Soccer Zone’s parking lot. The fronts of the units are all orientated to very attractive green spaces. They thought it would work well from a Planning standpoint.

Mark Farlow, Victor Saroki Architects, said several items on the planning of the project were changed to improve the quality of the density and open space issues, all of which create several advantages for the product. It also has given them an opportunity to look at some of the smaller details that would create a sense of character and scale to the overall development. In the booklets is a study of the ornamental metal work that would buffer Grand River from some of the street proud townhouse units that we have illustrated. A larger scale drawing was provided to identify some of the character of the light standards or poles that would be throughout the project.

Mr. Farlow said there are two significant components to this predominantly residentially driven project. He said it is their goal, in the commercial retail, and purpose to make the architecture and the design of these retail and commercial buildings be as village like and modest as possible. To that end they have included material choices that are at one moment residential but at the same moment appropriate for these kinds of modern uses. Mr. Farlow presented illustrations of standing C metal roof that is configured with a series of dormers that began to establish a kind of scale for this building. There are a series of piers that begin to mark the bays that define the structural system that supports the roof but is also an opportunity to adorn those piers with brick and stone work and coach lights. On the corner building will be a tower element with crown molding and a clock.

He pointed out the open space between the corner building is the set piece between the commercial and retail buildings. It was an opportunity to limit the qualities that strip centers have and this creates a place within the framework of the architecture, which is illustrated by the gazebo.

Mr. Farlow said before Council is a 12-unit townhouse and the preliminary studies for the residential buildings have not changed much.

Mr. Quinn pointed out the wetland and said they had received an interpretation from J.C.K. of the wetland. The wetland appeared to have been created from the run off from the Country Epicure banquet parking lot and had not been there prior to the Country Epicure strip center and parking lot. This is new information that would have to be discussed and they needed time to review this issue with J.C.K.

Mr. Quinn asked that they hold on the wetland issue because if it is a wetland then they would deal with it. If it is not a wetland and there is agreement it is not a wetland then this plan would proceed as is. He asked Council what they thought of the overall site layout as it pertained to the commercial uses and condominium units and if this is a wetland was the plan acceptable.

Member DeRoche asked if when doing their study of economic versus residential is the commercial necessary to be a viable project or is that created out of necessity because Council is asking for lower units?

Mr. Quinn said the commercial is a viable portion of the overall economics or the entire site.

Member DeRoche asked if the corner commercial was the most expensive commercial?

Mr. Quinn said the Meadowbrook/Grand River site certainly.

Member DeRoche said the one piece of the commercial he was struggling with was the market because he did not know what it was going to be. He said it was a concern but he would be open to adding more density if it cleaned up the other issues as far as having smaller businesses and a bank or drug store on the corner. He liked the way the plan looked and felt if Main Street was going to be supported with residential development it would be this type of development they would be looking for.

Member Csordas echoed Member DeRoche’s comments. He continued to support this project and felt it was certainly better than the Site Plan for the Consent Judgement, which would be extremely over built. He continued to support the style and the architecture and the true neighborhood feel of the project overall. He especially like the center area between the two buildings to the west because it developed a community or neighborhood type feel which he believed was critical. He liked the additional open space to the project. He thought it was a very substantial addition to the community.

Member Kramer thought it was a very interesting project and positive revisions had been made to it. He would like to see more detail on the buffering to the north when they come back. He was concerned with headlights and parking lot noise.

The scope and scale of the architecture is very attractive. He said the commercial buildings are shown without signage and he was sure that was not their intention. Would there be small residential scaled signs and no light boxes to Grand River? He asked that they express what they would do about signage when they come back. Perhaps they could look at the type of signage that is employed in Town Center. They are designed to be urban type signs not light box signs.

Member Kramer said it was certainly not the City’s intention to support strip commercial up and down Grand River. Unfortunately, for this parcel the courts disagreed with us and rendered a legal decision that permitted large commercial on this site. He appreciated the current proposal on this development because it deviates significantly from that legal decision. He asked that they take one more look at their finances and if some reduction in the commercial could be off set by some density he would also look favorably on that.

Member Crawford said Member Kramer alluded to the Consent Judgement and he was trying to get a handle on what the difference was of what could go there under the Judgement and what they were proposing. He asked how many square feet of commercial was there going to be and did it include Soccer Zone and the lighting?

Mr. Quinn said the Consent Judgement was for nine separate commercial buildings and 118,000 square feet and it is now being proposed for 31,000 square feet.

Member Crawford concurred with Member Kramer regarding reducing the commercial even more. He asked about the wetlands.

Mr. Quinn said they might be able to build residential around it depending on the shape and size of it. Also, they might be able to fill a portion of it and do some mitigation on site, the west end of it, and save some of the residential there.

Member Crawford thought it was a very exciting project and would provide customers to make Town Center even more viable with this residential development. He had always been impressed with the development at 14 Mile and Farmington Road. It used to have wrought iron fencing around it and if there was any way that could be done here along Grand River and along Meadowbrook it would absolutely set the development off. He asked that they think about it.

Mayor Pro Tem Lorenzo did not see what the question was regarding the wetland. The wetland consultant has given Council information that that is a wetland. In previous conversations with Mr. Quinn and Mr. Nona in November or December she specifically pointed out that area and requested that they consider preserving it in its entirety. She was concerned that they would ask Council to compromise on this development and that they would even suggest that they would challenge and request to fill a natural wetland area.

Mr. Quinn said the issue was whether it was natural or not. They have information now that says it is not.

Mayor Pro Tem Lorenzo said it is a wetland.

Mr. Quinn said there is an issue on that too.

Mayor Pro Tem Lorenzo said it is not an issue with our wetland consultant and that is whose judgement she trusts in this issue.

Mr. Quinn said they would be giving the consultant more information that she did not have before.

Mayor Pro Tem Lorenzo said this is a wooded wetland area so we are talking about woodlands and wetlands together on this parcel. She was also disappointed that they would not think of those wooded wetlands as open space.

Mr. Quinn said it was usable open space versus not usable open space.

Mayor Pro Tem Lorenzo said what is usable? Mr. Quinn said for people. She contended that people could use a wetland in a sense of it is educational, observational and there are a lot of things that could be done. When this was discussed in November and December she said to Mr. Quinn that similarly there was a wooded stand at Ten Mile and Beck at the Briarwood Plaza that made all the difference in the world in terms of the intensity of that location and how that had softened that plaza.

Mayor Pro Tem Lorenzo seriously suggested that they not challenge or question this. It is a wooded wetland and that it be preserved in its entirety. This area obviously takes water and absorbs and stores it. It also provides buffer from Grand River to the residents and they will appreciate that natural feature on the property. It would also have some limited wild life habitat given its location and size.

She said for all of those reasons she is very disappointed that right off the bat the wetland determination is being challenged. She said not good form and not good sportsmanship coming in here with your hat in hand asking Council to compromise and then trying to do something like that. She recommended they do not question this at all.

Mayor Pro Tem Lorenzo said in terms of the commercial area she thought Member Bononi had a very good point at the last meeting in terms of non-predatory uses. She said she could go along with the bank, drug store and the dry cleaners but she had concerns with the ice cream parlor because when she thinks of ice cream parlor she thinks Main Street. She was concerned about gourmet foods. Mr. Quinn described it as prepared foods, the architect described it as produce and pumpkins and open air and she felt that was Vic’s. She said they had recognized in the last couple of week that with Vic’s it is a very vulnerable location. She asked if they should jeopardize Vic’s and have a 90,000-sq. ft. white elephant sitting there someday. She asked that they reconsider the gourmet shop unless it is definitely only prepared food. If it is a market of any type, ala Vic’s, then she did not think it was something that should be considered because it would be predatory.

Mayor Pro Tem Lorenzo said carry out pizza was something that was not permitted in the previous agreement. She did not feel as strongly about it though as the other uses. One of the other uses that was out and she wanted to be sure it was still out was a gas station. She did not want to see restaurants there.

Mayor Pro Tem Lorenzo said other than that she thought this would work. She felt the residential would help Main Street to some degree. Obviously, the architecture is wonderful.

Member Bononi asked where this site drained?

Dave Bluhm, J.C.K., said the site drained to the regional basin that exists on the east side of Meadowbrook Road at the northeast corner of Meadowbrook and Grand River. He said there were two large culverts that cross Meadowbrook Road just north of Grand River.

Member Bononi asked if there was an outlet from the basin?

Mr. Bluhm said the regional basin outlets back across Grand River to the south and then into the new Willowbrook Development to the south.

Member Bononi asked if he was saying it is a tributary to Bishops Creek? He said yes.

Member Bononi said she was concerned about Bishops Creek. She said it was one of the tributaries that had been sited by the Rouge as being particularly worthy of protection. In view of the fact that there is a functioning wetland, Ms. Kay’s letter speaks for itself. It is important to point out that Ms. Kay has already allowed wetland area B which is .20 acres in size, wetland area C which is .81 acres in size and wetland area E 0.12 acres as areas that might be disturbed by construction. She said this letter is self-evident and she had no reason not to accept her professional opinion with regard to this wetland. Quite frankly, it does get rather deeply boring to have wetlands questioned to the degree that they are. She said many times there seems to be a negotiable connotation put on these things and the Rouge community that we are is considered to contribute to zero net loss of wetlands. Member Bononi did not think this was a matter up for grabs. She thought it was well documented in the letter and had no reason to not take Ms. Kay’s opinion.

Member Bononi asked Mr. Wahl what the status of the Gateway Ordinance was?

Mr. Wahl said in the fall this matter had gone before the Planning Commission and they made a positive recommendation on the ordinance. However, under the circumstances at that time it appeared to be something that would be between Councils and they felt that that was not a good way to go forward. The matter was tabled. There have been further discussions that perhaps some of the input they had heard might be worthy of reworking it. At this point it is tabled pending Council consideration.

Member Bononi wanted to be sure what the status was because from the standpoint of considering it in any of the criteria that is being looked at with regard to this proposal it is irrelevant if it is not an adopted City ordinance.

Member Bononi thought the landscaping proposed on the northerly side of the site is totally inadequate and from the standpoint of the elevation of the buildings she would not want to think that that would be any kind of adequate screening. She felt the area was much to narrow and the view that the persons would be accorded from those sites would not be appropriate for a residential location.

Member Bononi said the retail service area of the site is quite attractive but she believed it functioned as a strip development. She said she would not support a restaurant or a gourmet store and suggested they come up with some other uses they felt would be advantageous in the site. She felt that a smaller size hardware store might be advantageous because there was nothing like that in the area. Perhaps even a florist.

Member Bononi said from the standpoint of defining that wetlands as the viable wetland that it is and getting those units out of there she did not know how many units would be involved in that area of wetland.

Mr. Quinn said 20 to 25 units.

Member Bononi said she could support the project if they got out of the wetlands, reduced the density of the project by 25 units, eliminated the grocery store and restaurant and substituted other uses and increased screening on the north side.

Mayor Clark said the design and quality was improved over what they had seen before. He liked the comments made by Members Kramer and Crawford. He stated he was as concerned with woodlands and wetlands as the next person. However, he did not take any personal umbrage at someone that wanted to assert their client’s rights and say they respectfully disagreed with the determination that was made because they had information that seemed to suggest otherwise. Mayor Clark said Council has an opinion that seemed to suggest that it is a naturally occurring wooded wetland and if that is the case M.D.E.Q. would not allow them to do anything in that area anyway but they are certainly entitled to present their position.

Mayor Clark asked if the project could work as strictly a residential development?

Mr. Quinn said he had been told no. He said if it ended up looking that way then they would have to look at it again very hard.

Mayor Clark said the concept of the buildings and what they are proposing is something that is unique. He said given those prices if there were more residential units where the commercial is now he could not believe it would not have the payback.

Mayor Clark asked Mr. Quinn to digest the comments and come back with what he thought was appropriate.

7. Consideration of Metricom, Inc. wireless technology proposal and authorization to

prepare a Right-of-Way Use Agreement.

Loren Kano, representing Metricom, Inc., said Metricom is a wireless Internet provider soon to deploy its system in southeastern Michigan. The technology is provided through ricochet and the service operates through radios attached to light poles about 5 to 6 per square mile. The radios are bolted to the light poles and then they are plugged into the photocell of the light pole. An antenna hangs down from the radio and the signal is transmitted from the radio through the antenna. The antenna communicates with the modem that is attached to your laptop or stationary computer. It is utilized by police officers in their cars so they do not have to go back to the station to report accidents. It is used in libraries and would be very beneficial for the Novi Library because no expenditure has to be made for cable to go through the building because the modem would be used on the computers. It also has incredible speed. The system operates at 128.8 kilobytes per second and is competitive to the speed that is offered through the cable companies except that it has the benefit of being wireless.

Ms. Kano said the purpose of the presentation was to obtain authorization to work with the City attorney and various departments to arrive at a Right of way agreement to allow them to utilize the light poles that are located in our right of ways. Pursuant to Michigan law a municipality can charge a right of way user what it costs to maintain the right of way based on the impact. She said this is a very negligible impact as there is no trenching, digging, etc. It just takes ten minutes to install the radio on the light pole. Also, there is no required maintenance. If a radio does fail it send out an alarm in the central office, they would come and replace it.

Ms. Kano said Metricom arrived at a percentage of 1% of adjusted gross revenue as representative of the cost that it would take to maintain the right of way based on the impact of these radios. In addition if the City owns any light poles there is a fee of $60 per pole that is utilized. If Detroit Edison owns the poles the $60 goes to them as the pole rental fee. That 1% of adjusted gross revenue as the right of way maintenance fee is based on the subscribers that have addresses within the City of Novi. The technology is such that you can take the modem anywhere as long as you subscribe.

CM-00-02-036 Moved by DeRoche, seconded by Kramer; CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY:

To approve Metricom, Inc. wireless technology proposal to authorize preparation of R.O.W. Use Agreement.


Member DeRoche said the City has not been blessed with as much competition as he would like to see so he thought these new technologies should be encouraged to come in and expedite that.

Member Kramer stated he would support their investigation to determine use of right of way but was not sure Novi had sufficient over hanging lights.

Member Crawford asked that the attorneys make sure that Novi’s rights in the right of way are fully protected and that Novi is fully compensated for the use of the right of way.

Member Csordas asked what their forecasted gross revenue was for this area?

Ms. Kano said it was undetermined at this time because Metricom had not marketed the system so there is no representative municipality that would be comparable to Novi. She said this should not be looked at as a moneymaker for any municipality. It is a terrific benefit to the City and Metricom offers ten free subscriptions for communities up to 100,000 in population for the City to use. It can be a public safety tool. Fire Departments have downloaded building plans on site instead of having to open plans on site. She said under Michigan law what a municipality could charge is what it takes to maintain the right of way based on the impact. There have been some communities that have been concerned that the 1% of the adjusted gross revenue is too much.

Member Csordas asked if the surrounding communities do not support this will it still function?

Ms. Kano said absolutely.

Member Bononi said if there are not enough light poles to mount these how would it be mounted?

Ms. Kano said then Metricom would pursue wired access points such as commercial rooftops.

Member Bononi asked if access points would be confirmed prior to the draft agreement?

Ms. Kano said no not prior to the draft but it would be prior to the deployment. She said before the installation process is started the engineers would look at the light poles and determine which poles the radios would be located on and then it would be reviewed with Novi’s D.P.W.

Mayor Clark asked if any study had been done on how this system would work in a climate like Michigan’s in the wintertime?

Ms. Kano said the system is up and working in New York which would be comparable with Novi but she had no data on it and would check it out and get back to Council.

Vote on CM-00-02-036 Yeas: Clark, Bononi, Crawford, Csordas, DeRoche,

Kramer, Lorenzo

Nays: None

8. Appointments to City Boards and Commissions

Mayor Clark recommended Sandra Kline for re-appointment to the Economic Development Corporation for one new term expiring 3/1/05 and John Chambers for re-appointment to the Library Board of Trustees for one new term expiring 3/1/05.

CM-00-02-037 Moved by Crawford, seconded by Kramer; CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY:

To adopt the Mayor’s recommendations for re-appointment of Sandra

Kline to the Economic Development Corporation and John Chambers

for re-appointment to the Library Board of Trustees.

Vote on CM-00-02-037 Yeas: Clark, Bononi, Crawford, Csordas, DeRoche,

Kramer, Lorenzo

Nays: None


City Council Appointments

The following are appointments made to various Boards and Commissions by Council:

Construction Board of Appeals, term expiring 3/1/03 - Charles Bunge

Historical Commission, term expiring 1/1/03 - Thomas M. Swope

Housing & Community Development, term expiring 1/1/03 - Gerald Ross

term expiring 1/1/03 - Thomas Lindberg

Novi Building Authority, term expiring 3/1/03 - Mark Sturing


Brian Mitnic was present on behalf of Glenda’s Garden Center in Novi regarding the street tree bid. Mr. Mitnic issued a letter that was delivered Friday to Council regarding the difference between Glenda’s and Panoramic. They are two separate companies. He said he was present at the bid openings and at that time Glenda’s as a separate company and Panoramic as a separate company were the two lowest bids issued. According to what he saw on tonight’s agenda, Item #14, only Panoramic Landscaping was awarded. He said by giving Glenda’s and Panoramic a chance to do both of the bids and the totality of the street tree planting he saw that this City would save money and indeed there would be two separate companies doing the installation as referred to by the City Forester.


9. Ordinance No. 2000-125.13-To add definitions of "damaged tree", "dead tree",

"diseased tree" and "nonhuman cause" to Section 37-2 and to amend Sec. 37-27 to

clarify that the removal of damaged trees is exempt from the woodlands use permit

require, provided the damage resulted from nonhuman causes – II Reading & Adoption

CM-00-02-038 Moved by Lorenzo, seconded by Kramer; CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY:

To adopt Ordinance No. 200-125.13 To add definitions of "damaged tree", "dead tree", "diseased tree" and "nonhuman cause" to Section 37-2 and to amend Sec. 37-27 to clarify that the removal of damaged trees is exempt from the woodlands use permit require, provided the damage resulted from nonhuman causes – II Reading & Adoption

Roll call vote on CM-00-02-038 Yeas: Crawford, Csordas, DeRoche, Kramer, Lorenzo,

Clark, Bononi

Nays: None

10. Request for approval of Zoning Ordinance Amendment 18.160 – An Ordinance to add

Subsection 1903.12 to Ordinance No. 97-18, the City of Novi Zoning Ordinance, to

permit auto body repair shops as a principal use in locations not abutting a residential

district and subject to special conditions – I Reading

CM-00-02-039 Moved by Lorenzo, seconded by Bononi; MOTION CARRIED:

To deny Zoning Ordinance Amendment 18.160 to add language

for auto body repair shops – I Reading


Mr. Quinn representing Autometric Collision, Inc., said there is always some origination of a Zoning Ordinance Amendment when it does not come from in house staff. Part of it deals with looking at the ordinance as a whole, seeing how it applies to any use that might come to the City and then see if the ordinance can actually fit a use. In this scenario Autometric Collision was looking to come into Novi. They are a high-end collision shop and specialize in repairing luxury makes of cars such as Mercedes-Benz, BMW, Ferrari, Porsche, etc. The only collision shop in the City is Keford Collision who was pre-existing to the current zoning. To have a collision shop it would have to go into an I-2 Zoning District. There is very little I-2 Zoning Districts with buildings in the City that would allow such a use. Also, collision shops are there for a service to benefit the public in a place that they can easily get to. He said the I-2 now is off 12 Mile Road in an Industrial Park and a little off of Trans X.

Autometric was looking for a building that was already constructed and found the Holcomb Building. The Holbomb Industries building has been an eyesore for Novi for over eight years. It has been vacant, nothing has happened to it and the City has always looked for ways to develop it. Now there is a purchaser who wants to buy the building and has provided renderings of what they propose this building to look like when it is redone. It is a 38,000 square foot building and the Ordinance, as amended, would allow and limit collision shops totally within the buildings with absolutely nothing outside. He asked how that was any different than what is already allowed in I-1. Right now auto undercoating shops, metal plating, molded rubber products shops, dry cleaning plants, railroad transfer yards, storage facilities and municipal wastewater treatment plant is in an I-1 District. It also allows a number of automobile uses already such as transmission shops, vehicle repair, engine tune-up, brake service, wheel alignment, exhaust, heating and air conditioning repair, glass and upholstery repair. It allows everything except a collision shop.

Mr. Quinn said historically collision shops are thought of as a lot of outside storage with crashed vehicles all over. That is not what this ordinance would do. It prohibits it and says, "everything will be inside". When a crashed vehicle is brought in it immediately goes inside the building for storage and they work on it inside. When the car is done it is painted and stored inside until it is picked up. There is absolutely no outside storage allowed in this ordinance.

Therefore, if looking around the Zoning Ordinance of the City and looking at where the I-1 Zoning Districts are not abutting residential this means it is in an Industrial Complex and has other industrial uses around it. It is indoors and sits with other industrial uses. Why not allow a collision shop under those circumstances and it is also subject to a special use. So it still has to go to the Planning Commission and they can impose any other limitations that they want to. So this is a win win situation for the City. They have a redeveloped building, that would have more than a million dollars put into the building on the exterior and the interior and it would add to the tax base, the ordinance allows and limits this particular use and there would be absolutely no impact on the surrounding businesses or residential. Therefore doesn’t this make sense?

Mr. Quinn asked that the amendment be done, as proposed by the staff, to allow this to occur.

Member Bononi said the architectural renderings of the building are beautiful and she wished she could support this. The objection she had is the intent of the I-1 ordinances to provide unified complexes. The problem with the language amendment is that the auto body use, despite the fact that the nature of that business has changed and become more high tech, is incompatible with other uses and other potential uses that are already listed in that zoning classification. Changing this zoning language would enable this use to be placed in other locations as well and that is her objection to what the applicant is proposing.

Member Csordas asked what the project was east of this project? Mr. Arroyo stated there was a glass shop east of this project that had come forward and has received Final Site Plan Approval in the last three or four months so construction would probably commence this summer.

Member Csordas asked if this would be automotive related? Mr. Arroyo said it was automotive related but it’s primarily a glass shop like Henderson Glass.

Member Csordas said if this were to be approved this would be a similar type use? Mr. Arroyo did not think it was similar but was in a similar industry. Member Csordas commented he had not realized the Holcomb Building had been vacant so long. He agreed with Member Bononi that it was an outstanding rendering of what the building would look like. He said due to the nature of the process that the body shop would all be enclosed and really clean up this area, it seemed to him it would be similar use.

Mr. Arroyo asked Member Csordas to keep in mind that if this ordinance did not pass the applicant still had the ability to approach the Zoning Board of Appeals if they feel they have unique characteristics.

Member Csordas thought this project would be a tremendous improvement to the site and he did not see where it would have any negative impact to the surrounding area. He believed it would be consistent with what is going directly east of the building.

Member DeRoche agreed with Member Bononi that regarding the ordinance this would open this up for the whole City. However, he agreed with Member Csordas that with this particular situation it was something that made a lot of sense to him. He was not sure whether to approve the I Reading to allow more discussion and the applicant could go to the ZBA at the same time or should it be declined and then they go to the ZBA.

Member Kramer said he would support the motion to deny because he thought it was a positive action. He thought for this particular site the ZBA would be an appropriate direction. On the other hand, if that is not an acceptable approach there was a minority on the Planning Commission that felt that there was some value in looking further at the ordinance. If they want to go back to the Implementation Committee on Ordinance it would seem the next appropriate step would be the ZBA. If that failed they could take another "swing" at the ordinance and see if a better job could be done pulling together something more adaptable to the entire City.

Mayor Clark agreed with Members Csordas, Bononi and Kramer that the correct vehicle would be to go to the ZBA and look for a use variance. He would rather see that then open this up to an Ordinance with a much broader application.

Roll call vote on CM-00-02-039 Yeas: DeRoche, Kramer, Lorenzo, Clark, Bononi

Nays: Crawford, Csordas

11. Ordinance No. 2000-106.03-To amend Article III of Chapter 12 to modify the

requirements regarding on-site stormwater detention, and to limit the City ‘s

maintenance to public stormwater facilities - I Reading

CM-00-02-040 Moved by Crawford, seconded by Csordas;

To amend Article III of Chapter 12 of Ordinance No. 2000-106.03

to modify the requirements regarding on-site stormwater detention,

and to limit the City’s maintenance to public stormwater facilities

I Reading and II Reading and adoption.


Mayor Pro Tem Lorenzo had concerns regarding the ordinance itself. When looking at the purpose, findings of fact, we talk about floods, accumulative effects of urbanization and the related increased stormwater run off, erosion and sedimentation resulting in increased flood highs and irreparable harm to environmentally sensitive wetland areas. She felt this should also include wetlands and streams and there are findings of fact but they are not carried through the rest of the ordinance. There is talk about allowing developed flows as long as they are of sufficient capacity to protect downstream properties from damage resulting from developed stormwater flows but speak nothing to irreparable harm to the environmentally sensitive wetland areas.

Mr. Fried said the sole purpose of this ordinance is to allow the land developer to either retain the water on his land and let it discharge at agricultural rates or go into our drainage systems. Recent court cases said the people can not be forced to go into drainage systems because if we do then it becomes a tax and a tax is illegal because it violates Headlee. The only purpose of this is to give an option to a property owner to either discharge the water through our system and then pay the fee or to retain it on his own property and let it be discharged at an agricultural rate.

He said a letter was sent and he had hoped Council had a chance to read it.

Mayor Clark asked if this was the case involving the City of Lansing? Mr. Fried said it was.

Mr. Fried said it is a very important case and he thought it affected the City.

Mayor Clark said if this is drafted, then Novi would be in compliance with the present state of the law. Mr. Fried said that is correct.

Mayor Pro Tem Lorenzo said on top of why we are amending it she thought it needed more work to address the findings of fact that are not addressed further on.

Mr. Fried had no problem adding the language Mayor Pro Tem Lorenzo was suggesting to the Ordinance. He said the only thing he wanted to get through tonight was to make this voluntarily instead of making it a command.

Mayor Pro Tem Lorenzo asked why construction had been crossed out of Section 12 under Purpose.

Mr. Fried said the particular case that we are concerned with said if these fees are used for construction purposes then it is a tax. If used for maintenance it is not a tax.

Mayor Pro Tem Lorenzo asked who would pick up the bill for construction then?

Mr. Fried said there is a millage fund for that.

Mayor Pro Tem Lorenzo said then we are expecting the taxpayers of the City of Novi who pay to the Drain Fund to pick up the construction fees.

Mr. Fried said that is the way the fund got started. It got started with a millage.

Mayor Clark said a developer developing a particular site under the present state of the law would have the option to either construct on site detention at his cost or pay a maintenance cost to go into our system.

Mayor Pro Tem Lorenzo said the fee does not cover the construction it only covers the maintenance and repair.

Mr. Fried said if you want to do construction you have to do it by taxation.

Mayor Pro Tem Lorenzo said then they have no choice but to build their own detention.

Mr. Fried asked if she wanted to stop all the drainage systems? That is the way the wetlands are being protected by allowing these drainage systems to get built.

Mayor Pro Tem Lorenzo said on site detention would take care of that.

Mr. Fried asked if she wanted all on site detention? She said it was an alternative. Mr. Fried said that was up to Council and could be done if they want it.

Mayor Clark said this is a practical matter about being in compliance with the law. We do not always like the law but we are still obligated to follow it. If we do not like the law we can take appropriate action to try and get the law changed. If the court says this is the law for now we have one choice and that is to follow it.

Member Kramer suggested Council pass the legal aspects of the I Reading and refer the Ordinance back to Implementation to look at other aspects.

Mr. Fried was concerned that they adopt this ordinance very quickly. It can be sent back after Council adopts this ordinance for as much review as necessary. He recommended getting this stage of it over with.

Member Crawford asked if Mr. Fried wanted the I and II Readings and adoption tonight?

Mr. Fried said he would appreciate that.

CM-00-02-040 Moved by Crawford, seconded by Csordas; CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY:

to adopt the I Reading and the II Reading and the adoption of

the ordinance revision to Ordinance 2000-106.03.

Roll call vote on CM-00-02-040 Yeas: Kramer, Lorenzo, Clark, Bononi, Crawford,

Csordas, DeRoche

Nays: None

CM-00-02-041 Moved by Lorenzo, seconded by Bononi; MOTION CARRIED:

To send Ordinance No. 2000-106.03 to Ordinance Review Committee

for re-tuning.


Member Crawford asked re-tuning for what reason? If the re-tuning is to come back with on site detention as the only option he said years ago Council changed their philosophy so there was not a lot of on site retention ponds all over the City. He said if that was the intention he would not support the motion and felt it might be out of order because it is not on the agenda.

Roll call vote on CM-00-02-041 Yeas: DeRoche, Kramer, Lorenzo, Clark,

Bononi, Csordas

Nays: Crawford

12. Adoption of Resolution No. 1, SAD 159-Section 3 Water Main Extension (Lake Wall

Sub. John Hawthorn’s Subs 1 & 2, and Supervisor’s Plat No. 2)

CM-00-02-042 Moved by DeRoche, seconded by Crawford; CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY: To adopt Resolution No. 1, SAD 159, Section 3

Water Main Extension (Lake Wall Sub. John Hawthorn’s Subs 1 & 2

and Supervisor’s Plat No. 2.

Roll call vote on CM-00-02-042 Yeas: Kramer, Clark, Lorenzo, Bononi,

Crawford, Csordas, DeRoche

Nays: None

13. Adoption of Resolution No. 1, SAD 160-Section 3 Road Paving Improvements (Lake

Wall Sub, John Hawthorn’s Subs 1 & 2, and Supervisor’s Plat No. 2)



CM-00-02-043 Moved by Lorenzo, seconded by Crawford; CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY:

To adopt Resolution No. 1, SAD 160, Section 3 Road Paving

Improvements – Lake Wall Sub. John Hawthorn’s Subs 1 & 2 and

Supervisor’s Plat No. 2

Roll call vote on CM-00-02-043 Yeas: Lorenzo, Clark, Bononi, Crawford, Csordas,

DeRoche, Kramer

Nays: None


14. Award bid for Street Trees Bid #1B to Panoramic Landscaping, the low bidder, in the

amount of $101,682 and award bid for Street Trees Bid #3B, to Artistic Outdoor

Services, the second low bidder, in the amount of $108,170, split award of purchase

of trees from five bidders based on unit prices, and reject Street Tree Bid #1A

Mr. Pargoff said 1A was a planting and acquisition and it was too expensive so they asked that it be rejected. 2B was to purchase just the plant material and he was asking for purchase of the low bidders of each individual species. In 1B they were asking for the planting only of the plant material and they are going with the low bidder. 3B is planting the other half of the plant material and they asked for the second low bidder or the third low bidder if Council considered Panoramic and Glenda’s as two separate entities.

Mr. Pargoff said they had structured the two planting bids, 1B and 3B, in this way because they have had difficulty in the last three years where they have only had one planting contractor. It had been difficult to get trees in the ground by the June 1st cut off date.

Mayor Pro Tem Lorenzo said she could not go along with his second request for the third low bidder. She said it was several thousand dollars more and there was no reason for it. The two companies are two separate companies and the proprietors have assured they can do the job.

Mr. Pargoff said he has had these assurances in the past and that was why they asked for two separate contractors. If going with the low bidder Panoramic would be doing all the planting and Glenda’s would provide the plant material.

CM-00-02-044 Moved by Lorenzo, seconded by DeRoche; MOTION CARRIED:

To award bid for Street Trees bid #1B and #3B to Panoramic Landscaping, the low bidder in the amount of $100,800.00 and to split the award for purchase of Street Trees from five bidders based on unit prices and rejecting Street Tree bid #1A. Also, to give direction to the Finance Department to require an appropriate performance bond from the contractor.


Mr. Kramer thought it would be prudent and reasonable to request a performance bond from Panoramic and/or Glenda’s with a stipulation that these be planted on time. He asked if there was a contractual arrangement that could be added to this?

Mr. Fried said if Council conditioned the acceptance of the bids on the fact that they supply performance bonds then it would be good.

Mr. Pargoff asked if it would be percentage wise or would it be something that they would do with the purchasing agent to make that final determination?

Mr. Fried said it would be for the whole price.

Member Crawford asked if the 1A bids that were rejected were they included in these others or did they have to be re-bid.

Mr. Pargoff said 1A was for one contractor to purchase and plant all plant material and provide a guarantee.

Member Crawford asked if 1B and 3B would accomplish the same thing?

Mr. Pargoff said it would except there would not be a one year guarantee for the plant materials survival.

Member Crawford asked what that meant? If they die we are out of luck? Mr. Pargoff said they would have to replant them again at our own expense.

Member Crawford asked why we would want to do that. Mr. Pargoff said the 1A bids were higher than the budgeted amount. Member Crawford asked how much higher per tree? Mr. Pargoff said it was approximately $50 a tree. Member Crawford asked if it was an insurance policy and was it worth it?

Mr. Pargoff said the problem was the money had not been collected from the developers to plant the trees.

Member Crawford said what if all this money is spent to plant these trees and they die and there is no guarantee? He said if they die then we are out a couple hundred thousand dollars.

Mr. Pargoff said it had never happened that way but there was always that possibility.

Member Crawford asked if they were getting approximately $175 per tree from the developers?

Mr. Pargoff said they were getting $225 from the subdivisions these trees were going into.

Member Crawford said then the bid would be around $275? Mr. Pargoff said yes, the low bid was between $265 and $270 in 1A.

Member Crawford stated he had a problem with no guarantees on these trees and asked if we generally have the trees guaranteed?

Mr. Pargoff said they have not had them guaranteed starting with last year. Last year was the first year that they went to the planting and purchase arrangement.

Member Crawford asked if any of those trees had to be replaced? Mr. Pargoff said they wouldn’t know until they came out this spring.

Member Crawford asked if the motion was to accept Panoramic for both 3B and 1B. Mr. Pargoff said that was his understanding.

Mayor Pro Tem Lorenzo said it was Panoramic and Glenda’s.

Mr. Pargoff said the letter stated that they could use both companies together. They would use the staff and equipment from either company to support the other one.

Member Crawford said whatever they do as long as they are in on time and there needed to be some sort of performance contract. He said he would not vote for the motion anyway because he was concerned about the replacement factor. If the motion is approved he hoped it included a performance clause of some type.

Member Kramer requested the performance bond be a part of the motion.

Mayor Pro Tem Lorenzo said that was fine.

Member DeRoche said it would be just an appropriate performance bond from the Finance Department. Mayor Pro Tem Lorenzo said that is right.

Member Crawford asked how this clause affected the price of the bid? If Panoramic has to come up with a performance bond that was not in the original specifications could they say it was not part of the original deal?

Mr. Fried said they would have the right to reject this because it is not the same offer that was made as part of the bid process.

Member Csordas felt the performance bond was totally appropriate because it is a matter of planting the trees on time that has an impact on whether the trees survive or not. He asked if there would be legal problems with this?

Mr. Fried said no. If he does not accept it then it will be re-bid.

Vote on CM-00-02-045 Yeas: Clark, Bononi, Csordas, DeRoche, Kramer, Lorenzo

Nays: Crawford

Mr. Klaver said he could not recall if there was a motion made last Saturday to schedule a meeting for the City Manager position on Saturday, March 4th.

CM-00-02-045 Moved by Kramer, seconded by Lorenzo; CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY:

That there be a Special Meeting of Council on Saturday, March 4th at 12 noon in Council Chambers.



Vote on CM-00-02-045 Yeas: Clark, Bononi, Crawford, Csordas, DeRoche,

Kramer, Lorenzo

Nays: None



1. Status of compliance with MDEQ Directives outlined in their letter dated December 1,

1999, following their inspection of the City of Novi DPW Yard – Mayor ProTem


Mayor Pro Tem Lorenzo asked that Item 1, 2 and 3 be moved to the next meeting.

Mayor Clark said 1, 2 and 3 has been pulled off. Item 4 had already been done.

2. Status of comprehensive stormwater/sewer inspection and maintenance program –

Mayor ProTem Lorenzo.

Mayor Pro Tem Lorenzo asked that this Item be moved to the next meeting.

3. M.D.O.T. Garfield Road Mitigation Site

Mayor Pro Tem Lorenzo asked that this Item be moved to the next meeting.

4. Appointment of SEMCOG Delegate and Alternate- Mayor Clark

Mayor Clark stated this item has been done.

5. Reschedule Northville Township Meeting

Member Kramer said the proposed dates were March 9, 13, 23, 30 and there were some dates in April also. He said the 13th looked like an available Monday, the 23rd and 30th are Thursdays.

Mayor Clark could not be present on the 23rd because of a commitment to address a homeowners group. Mayor Clark would be in trial the week of the 13th and would not be available.

Member Bononi stated she was not available on the 30th.

Mayor Clark said April 6th was a Thursday and April 10th was a Monday.

Mr. Klaver asked if Council wanted him to offer April 6th and 10th to Northville Township.

Mayor Clark and Council concurred. Mr. Klaver said he would get back with Council by the next meeting.


6. Police & Fire Departments Recognition

Mayor Clark commended the Police and Fire Departments for the excellent job they do. He pointed out that in Council packets tonight was a letter of appreciation for quick response and quality of service and expertise from the Fire Department and CEMS during a family emergency at the Maggie Pringlemeir home. Mayor Clark said the residents of Novi do not realize the number of letters of accommodation that the Police and Fire Departments receive for the Officers. The Police Officers in this community do a lot of things in this City that they do not get recognized for in terms of public service, dealing with problem citizens, and extending themselves to things that do not directly relate to law enforcement. He felt they should be commended along with the Fire Department, which was recognized in the paper last week.

Member Crawford concurred and felt that these were excellent comments and suggested that instead of 1:30 AM the Mayor make those same comments under Special Reports on the Agenda at the beginning of the next meeting.

Mayor Clark said he would.

7. Refer to Ordinance Review – Citywide Nepotism and enhanced access to public


Mayor Clark stated that Mr. Watson requested that Council send to Ordinance Review the subject of adopting a Citywide Nepotism Policy and an Enhanced Access to Public Records Policy for the City.

CM-00-02-046 Moved by Lorenzo, seconded by Bononi; CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY:

To refer to Ordinance Review the subject of a Citywide Nepotisim

Policy and an Enhanced Access to Public Records Policy for the City.

Vote on CM-00-02-046 Yeas: Clark, Bononi, Crawford, Csordas, DeRoche,

Kramer, Lorenzo

Nays: None



CM-00-02-047 Moved by DeRoche, second Lorenzo; CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY:

To adjourn the meeting at 1:32 AM

Vote on CM-00-02-047 Yeas: Clark, Bononi, Crawford, Csordas, DeRoche,

Kramer, Lorenzo

Nays: None









_________________________________ ________________________________

Richard J. Clark, Mayor Nancy Reutter, Deputy City Clerk





Transcribed by ______________________________

Charlene Mc Lean



Date approved: March 20, 2000