The meeting was called to order at 8:00 p.m. with Mayor McLallen presiding.


Council pledged allegiance to the flag.



ROLL CALL: Council Members, Crawford (present), Mason (Present),

Mitzel (present), Pope (absent/excused), Schmid (present), Toth (present) and Mayor McLallen (present).


Present (6) Absent/excused (1-Pope)





ALSO PRESENT: Edward Kriewall - City Manager

David Fried - City Attorney

Douglas Shaeffer - Chief of Police

Dan Davis - Director of Parks and Recreation

Brandon Rogers - City Planner

Tony Nowicki - Director of Public Services

Tonni Bartholomew - City Clerk







Mr. Kriewall said we have about three changes weíd like to propose. Right after the approval of the agenda weíd like to add a special report by Chief Shaeffer regarding union disturbances over the weekend. Item #4A would be a budget amendment for the Police Department for shields and clubs. Item #8, weíd like to add under Matters for Council Action - Part II is an Indemnification Agreement regarding South Hill Construction.


Councilwoman Mason said I would like to add #9 which would be a discussion on this schedule that we got for meetings for 1996 and also under #7 to schedule an executive session to immediately follow our meeting for property acquisition I would like to put litigation on that too please.


It was then,


Moved by Councilman Crawford

Seconded by Councilman Schmid


That the agenda be approved as amended.


Yes (6) No (0) Absent (1-Pope) MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY





Chief Shaeffer said good evening Madam Mayor and Council Members. I have the dubious honor to present to you tonight a very short briefing on an incident that took place over the weekend Saturday night, very early Sunday morning in which a newspaper strike that we have read about and seen on TV came to Novi. Novi does have a distribution center for the Detroit Newspapers and, in fact, we received information of their gathering there and request for response at the same time the patrol officers on patrol found a large gathering of picketers at the location. We did, in fact, respond

and found that there were about 100 picketers on site. They were on private property and we asked them to remove themselves from the private property and illustrated for them where, in fact, they could picket, carry out their picketing activities. There was some verbal confrontations but they eventually chose to move. Of course, at the same time we did, in fact, request that our off duty personnel report for duty and we requested assistance from surrounding departments. Oakland County Sheriffs Office, Livonia and our very good friends due east of us, Farmington Hills. All provided exceptionally fast response to our request with several officers. So, weíre indebted to them for that. As I said, we did call in additional personnel that we had off duty in order to control the situation. As it turned out then, we were very fortunate we did not have a confrontation, the newspapers, themselves, did not try and attempt to move their trucks off the property and out into the distribution centers. Although, they were staging to do so they did not. We did have some small problems with stars that are being used to flatten tires and I would be happy to hand these around to you. These devices are being used to throw into the roadway so that they will, in fact, flatten tires on cars. They are so designed that no matter which way you throw them they land with a point up.

Chief Shaeffer said we did have damage to some of our police vehicles. Some of our surrounding communities had damage to their vehicles as a result of that. You can certainly see by the ones being passed around which ones we dug out of tires as opposed to which ones we just simply were able to pick up and remove from the roadway. Anyway, one of our officers did see an individual throwing one out into the street and that individual was isolated out of the crowd and arrested and is being charged with that.


Chief Shaeffer said tonight I have brought to you a budget amendment request, approximately $4,000, to purchase additional equipment. We consider personal protective devices in terms of the shields and gas masks that you have been seeing on TV. We would certainly request that you, in fact, fund that so we can make those purchases and make those purchases rather rapidly. As several of the people indicated to us they expect to be back in our location very soon. With that Iíd be happy to answer any questions.


Councilman Toth said Chief Shaeffer, Iíd like you to send a letter off to the Teamsters Union, who is responsible for the strike I believe, with the indication that we support their right to have a strike but do not support their right to come in and contaminate the area with these devices. Furthermore, I think you should bill the Union for all of the costs for repairing the tires and the other appropriate charges and submit this to the Union. I believe, by law, they are obligated to pay for this if their Union Members are the ones throwing these devices around the area. I would strongly suggest that in your letter you state that weíll support them in their legal right to picket but not in any shenigans like this.


Mayor McLallen said Mr. Toth would you like to make that a motion of action by this entire Council?


It was then,


Moved by Councilman Toth

Seconded by Councilwoman Mason


That Chief Shaeffer be directed to write a letter to the Teamsters Union regarding the cost of repairs to vehicles damaged during their picket and also to explain to them that the department will respect their rights as picketers but will not support illegal activity by their members.


Yes (6) No (0) Absent (1-Pope) MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY


Chief Shaeffer said he would like to summarize this incident in one particular manner. We recognize the rights of the picketers, in fact, to carry out their activities in a very lawful manner. We also recognize the rights of the employer to have certain rights also and their property protected. The Novi Police Department positions itself to be in a very neutral position of that regard and we plan on maintaining, of course, that neutrality position so that we can, in fact, recognize the rights of both parties involved.


Chief Shaeffer said, so with that Iíd like to move on to a more pleasant matter and that is promotions. The organization recently went through a series of testing; as you are well aware we had an assessment center. The results of the assessment center were received and as a result of that we were able to promote two people to detective. Officer Kenny Meier, who has been with the organization for many years and, we think very, very highly of, prevailed and ranked at the very top of the list. So, it was with a great deal of pleasure that I was able to promote him. The other officer, Kevin Hebert, is also one of the very valuable components of our organization who we also think very, very highly of so again it was refreshing to see both these officers promoted and to recognize both of them for the service they have provided for us and position them so they can continue to provide exceptional service to the community of Novi in their new jobs. So, its a pleasure to promote people and certainly is a very exciting time around the organization for that.


Mayor McLallen said thank you very much Chief and we certainly appreciate all the efforts of your department.





Harry Avagian said he would like to take this opportunity on behalf of the Lakes Area Residents Association to invite, not only the candidates for Council and for Mayor, to our traditional candidates night on Tuesday, October 24, but to also invite the general public to attend that particular meeting. Historically, its been a experience that has been very revealing in that the candidates for office have had an opportunity to talk about their vision for Novi. In so doing, also indicate some of the things that they think represent problems, areas that improvement may be necessary. Also, the most unique thing, of course, is that we reserve about 45 minutes to an hour for general questions from the floor. So, I would like very much to invite the general public and certainly the eight candidates for Novi City Council and the two for the position of Mayor. That again, is Tuesday, October 24, at the Walled Lake Middle School on Pontiac Trail at 7:30. Our L.A.R.A. meeting will begin at 7 and we will be ready for the candidates night at 7:30. Thank you.


James Korte, Shawood Lake, Iím going to take a couple of minutes because I only get a couple to talk about campaigning and the process, campaign committees. There are laws, there are

regulations, there are ordinances set up to control what happens and who contributes. Now, when all of this stuff is finally done itís open to scrutiny. Freedom of Information Act, I have a whole packet that was finally delivered to Oakland County with regards to the last Mayoral campaign and the winner. Iíve talked with Mrs. Stickley, Director of Elections, everything is out of the County hands, at this point in time. I have an appointment with the Michigan Department of State, Office of Hearing, Regulations, Compliance and Rule Division. There are several blatant situations in this pile of the Mayor candidate that won for last year. Now, I have proof some of these are just not, I think, errors or omissions. Now, that Committee looks upon them and based on my proof will question the candidate. The candidate will have 14 days to respond and then depending on what the response is itís what the State does about what I think is fraudulent behavior. Now, I think that when we look at any political anybody we look for integrity, we look for a consciousness and a belief in the person. If you read some of these pages it isnít credible. Unusual things happen in the City so much of this is here say but I do have that meeting and I do hope there is going to be some restrictions or some more fines put onto the Mayor candidates committee. Sheís already been fined $500 for not doing things properly. The only thing I do have to say is in this paperwork there is a resignation from her Treasurer and if what the letter says is true then I think non-cooperation is unacceptable on the part of any candidate running for any office. Iím not using this Treasurerís name, sheís a fine and upstanding person within the community. Now, the reason I am saying this now is I do think Madam Mayor is sometimes slow to respond. The State has said that they will send me copies of what they send the Mayor so that I will know what the 14 day situation is and will go from there. Stay tuned for further advice.


A resident said Madam Mayor, Members of Council, fellow Novi residents, I rise on hopefully a much more pleasant issue. I want to speak to this body in full support of the ice hockey rink complex that we are about to hear tonight. I have not personally been involved with any of the negotiations or conversation on the exact layout but I do know there is a dire need in this community. The Farmington Hills rink, that has just opened, has opened and exceeded any projections for success for number of players in the youth hockey, the adult hockey, the figure skating, the public skating, anyway you want to look at it that rink has been a smashing success.

It might be easy on the Council to say why does Novi need a rink with two sheets of ice in Farmington Hills. Well, thereís a lot of limitations to that Farmington Hills rink. First off theyíre treating residents with absolute first priority. There are a lot of kids right now that are playing hockey in Farmington Hills that next year, should more Farmington Hills kids decide to play which is every anticipation after all their friends are in this year, that the Novi kids that are in the hockey and other kids of other communities are going to be thrown out of the program because the Farmington residents have absolutely first priority. They have no grand fathering in that particular situation and itís a detriment to the kids. The second aspect is the travel hockey program, which those of you who are involved in soccer which is big in this community, know how important travel hockey is. Residents of Novi, in all youth levels, donít have the equal opportunity to play travel hockey because not only the Farmington rink but other rinks in the community give preference, give priority and allocate up to 50% of their team must be from that community. So we are denying and holding back some kids.


Finally, in addition to Farmington Hills thereís a woeful shortage of ice even with the ice that has come on line in Farmington Hills, Detroit Skate Club and so forth. Thereís still a woeful shortage of ice for adults for anybody that wants to enjoy that sport. Money is not the issue. I am coach of a team with a substantial sponsor fund and we cannot even pay for ice any where because itís just not available. So, I know this is probably premature but I have to leave before the presentation to go over to Fraser to play hockey because thatís the closest place that I can play and do it at an ungodly hour this evening. So, I urge the Council to give full consideration to the proposal that your about to hear. Please, donít think just because the Farmington Rink is open that that negates the need for a rink here in Novi. I certainly would suspect that Novi can anticipate every bit of success that the Farmington rink has enjoyed. I thank the Council.


Joe Dunnabeck, 22000 Beck Rd., said first I want to thank you people for this fast response I got from my last complaint at the last meeting. At 9 oíclock in the morning I received a call from JCK, 10 oíclock it was two gentlemen and myself on the site. We did agree that there was water being put on my property and at that point we agreed to disagree as to how much we would be enlarging the wet water. So I asked him the $64.00 question as to why they had to pump all that water out 38 feet down. His response was that they had to go that deep in order to have the sanitary line flow by gravity to the east. Well, now if you look at a topol map from Beck and all the way out to Napier, I think, Napier development will be about a 100 feet. So I just wondered who has the authority to pump other peoples water because surely,. that water is not coming strictly from underneath his development. Itís coming from all over. Pumps are still running and they have probably been running for five or six weeks and I have two wells that I have a little concern for. Iím sure thereís a lot of other people down Nine Mile Road that would be in the same boat if they knew about it. Someoneís well is libel to go dry and they wonít have any idea as to why. So, Madam Mayor if you would, Iíd like to know in writing who has the final authority, do they have a permit, is there any regulations on pumping water and is there any notification for neighbors. In all of our regulations and ordinances I think we ought a be able to cover that. People would know whatís happening in the neighborhood and possibly whatís happening to their water line. Thank you very much.


Mayor McLallen said thank you Mr. Dunnabeck and hopefully weíll get back to you as promptly as last time.


Mayor McLallen said Mr. Kriewall did you get all of the questions?


Warren Jocz said as youíre well aware I have been in front of you for about a year now raising issues and concerns regarding proposed Ten Mile Road Improvement Project. I represent a group of people called the Ten Mile Task Force. In your packet tonight hopefully you received our first step in helping resolve this issue. I hope you will find a detailed report we put together identifying a lot of the issues as well as providing you with a recommendation based on our engineering findings. We hope that this exemplifies our willingness to work with the City, we hope to establish a good working relationship. We intend for you to review this report and when you have time to digest the things that we have discovered and what we feel are the pertinent issues weíd love to sit down with the City of Novi and JCK, itís agent, in this case to review these issues so that as a group we can come to some mutual understanding and resolve any of the concerns that have been raised. But again, we respectfully ask that you review thoroughly our report. We spent many hours trying to put this information together and think it is a very pro-active approach to a problem of identification. Weíve tried to make it devoid of emotion and just stick to the facts at hand and we hope that you appreciate our efforts.


Diane Vandermal, Cider Mill, said I also would like to talk about the ice arena proposal. I deeply support it. I think that Novi is woefully lacking in family oriented places. I think that an ice arena would afford many families the opportunity to go to open skating or participate in many of the ice opportunities that communities enjoy. I think that there is more than enough support out there that could definitely support more ice. We really are lacking in that and as I said I think Novi is somewhat lacking in some kind of facility for families and I think an ice arena would be a wonderful venture.


Marty Melvin said Iíll pile on real quick in support of the ice arena. I coach two teams, two communities away and 30% of the kids are Novi kids. So weíre traveling all over to play hockey and weíd love to see one in this community. Thanks.


Cheryl Sialoid, Dunbarton Pines, said I too support the arena in Novi. My husbandís Director of Coaching for Plymouth/Canton and my phone rings off the hook continually with people complaining about ice times because thereís such a shortage. Teams that have ten days between practices because thereís just ice not available and it is a real problem. Farmington is a great facility but unfortunately it hasnít solved our problem. Thereís still kids, a half an hour before I came I had a young man from Windsor call me. His family just moved here and heís living here in Novi desperately wanting to play hockey and thereís just no place for him to go. Heís been calling all over so I support it; itís needed and I encourage you to consider the proposal.


Donna Reel, Bradford of Novi, and I too want to voice my opinion on the ice rink. I have three boys and we just moved from Livonia and we have to play in Farmington and we got shut out of a travel team because of the residency. So I just want to voice my opinion that I definitely think we need it because they have 1,000 kids in Farmington and at least 4 or 5 are from Novi on our team. I know if they go with their 25% rule which they are talking about next year the Novi kids will be shut out.





1. Approval of TCO Numbers: Novi 1-95, Novi 2-95, Novi 3-95, Novi 4-95, Novi 5-95 and Novi 6-95.


It was then,


Moved by Councilman Schmid

Seconded by Councilman Toth


That the Consent Agenda be approved as submitted.


Yes (6) No (0) Absent (1-Pope) MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY





1. Ice Arena Facility Proposal


Dan Davis said we are before you tonight to give you an update on the status of the ice arena project. For many months we have been working behind the scenes through a private firm we had solicited proposals from, our City Attorneyís office and the Department. Weíve been putting together necessary contract documents, management agreements and so forth that Council authorized us to proceed with approximately one year ago. At this point, Iíd like to back up and give a little brief history of where we have come within this project to lead us up to todays proposal that Ďs before you tonight.


First off, back in September of 1992 a citizens group that was formed by Novi Parks and Recreation Commission presented a report to the Novi City Council outlining the need of an ice skating facility here in the City of Novi. It was well documented within that report that there was a lot of participation from Novi residents at that time. These people were going out to other communities to get their ice skating needs met. There just was not the facility here available in this area of the City or of the community and they were going into Dearborn, River Rouge, Taylor over to the east side St. Clair Shores, Fraser and we felt that at this point there was well documented need to proceed. At that point, we looked at a way that we could present a proposal to the Council and to the residents of the Community that was not going to be in a fashion that was going to require the necessity to raise taxes for the residents and the businesses of the City of Novi. Under our proposal we wanted to venture into a public and private cooperation agreement in the community that would see the City of Novi potentially lease property to a private sector firm and let them come in and operate and build the facility for the benefit of the community. Under this proposal, obviously the cost would be strictly put onto the user of the facility. It would be managed by a management team that has expertise; it would not require additional staff time brought onto the City of Novi payroll to actually operate that type of facility. So we sought Request for Proposals and back in March of 1994 those proposals went out. We received five proposals from private sector firms. At that point, the committee, again that was comprised of residents, Parks Commissioners and City Council Members reviewed our recommendation to allow Center Ice Management , the firm thatís before us, tonight to go ahead and proceed with looking at the feasibility of this type of facility. In September of 1994 City Council authorized Center Ice Management along with City Administration to proceed with producing contract documents that outline the format which we will embark on to this proposal.


Tonight before you and included in your packets is that summary of many long hours of work by your City Attorneys office and Center Ice Management in putting together those agreements that outline that proposal. Before us tonight is Terry Syler who is with Center Ice Management who will walk us through the step by step process by which we envision this taking place which will bring an ice arena facility to the City of Novi. Iíll turn it over to Terry; obviously we want to hear comments and questions from Council Members so we can further proceed with this proposal taking place with the idea that we would like to see it built by early next year and being up and operating by September of 1996. So with that Iíll turn it over to Terry for a brief presentation and then have the availability for Council Members to have questions for myself or Mr. Syler.


Mr. Syler said I appreciate the opportunity to come before you with our presentation. I think youíve got a picture of the rendering that we proposed thatís here before you so you can see it. This ice arena, we believe, will be the finest facility in the State of Michigan. It will be a model for other communities, itíll be a tribute to the skaters of Novi and the entire northwest community.

When we came to you we understood what you wanted was the ability to skate at no risk to the taxpayers of the City of Novi. We feel we have come together with a proposal that will meet that need.


The way we can meet it is based upon a very, very strong market acceptance of hockey. If you will remember a year ago I came before you and I made a presentation of our feasibility study. At the time, I projected the hockey growth and the ice skating growth of figure skating over the next two years. My projections for the last 12 months have been right on target. I canít take any credit for that; all I did was a simple thing. I looked at all of the skating rinks of the southeast Michigan area. Every single one of them is absolutely brim packed full. I looked at how many of them were coming on line, I projected how many people could fit in those new ones. That did not address the thousands of people that want to skate but canít get in the program. If you go to any team right now that has a hockey team, any figure skating program and you ask them if they want more ice; they all want it. Every single one of them want more ice. None of these needs are anywhere demonstrated in the projections of marketability study. Nationally hockey has been growing 17% a year. Michigan is the second highest active State; we only grew at 8.5% last year which is typical for the last few years because thatís all the ice that came on available. In the states where hockey is not impacted like Minnesota, Michigan and New York hockey grew last year at 17%. Iím talking about

states like Illinois, Ohio, South Carolina. In the far southeast region, where you wouldnít think of it, hockey grew 31%. What that means is the growth in hockey is far more than the numbers indicate. The numbers only indicate what ice is available for growth to occur. The real indications that growth in hockey, all those people on in-line roller skates looking for a place to play hockey because theyíve got no place. They play on in-line skates which is dangerous they fall and they trip. Ice hockey is one of the safest sports and itís one of the best sports for our youngest children both girls and the boys who need to play. This way we can come and build for community programs with no cost to the taxpayers. Iím not talking about one red cent itís going to cost you in the long run to have this facility. In fact, weíre going to generate revenue for the community recreation needs.


I think you have these charts in your packet. What you see is we have three entities in this program. On this side would be the City of Novi which is completely independent. On this side you see Center Ice Management which, of course, is independent. The two of us come together to prepare a Community Clubs of Novi. Community Clubs has been incorporated and we have proposed the documentations to dedicate that corporation to the exclusive benefit of the residents and guests of the City of Novi. That organization would be governed by a Board of Trustees. The members of that Board of Trustees would be nominated and named by the City Council and as the Management Company we would be able to place one person on that Board so long as we were the manager to coordinate the management along with the Board of Trustees. That Board of Trustees would then control all the activities of the ice rink and all the things around it, they would control the spending of the money and the design of the facility. Down the line, as we start generating funds, there will be surplus, we call it profit but itís a non-profit corporation so thereís no such thing as profit, but there would be surplus funds. Those funds would be spent by the Board of Trustees in ways that they determined would be beneficial to the community. It could be through expansion of programs, building more rinks, they could build other kinds of facilities, they could built indoor soccer rinks or anything that the community felt would be required. The one thing is, of course, that those people would be appointed by the Council so they would represent the City and the cityís interest.


The process that we would go through, starting over here at the far end right now the City is in this top line up here, this would represent Community Clubs, Center Ice Management and the architect and the contractor. Now, we have been working with the City Recreation Department and legal Counsel to draft three documents. The first document is a development agreement which is a tri-party agreement between the City, Community Clubs and the Management Company. That development agreement will guide the process through all the following steps we have to go through. We also have two other agreements. One, is a ground lease which will come into play once a number of conditions are met by which Community Clubs rents land from the City of Novi to build it. The third agreement is a Design Build Construction Contract between Community Clubs and Center Ice by which Community Clubs receives a fully built functioning facility ready to go into place at a price not to exceed a price based on the formulas worked out in the contract.


The way this operation would work is right now weíre here for approval of the Development Agreement. Attached to the Development Agreement are the Ground Lease and Development Design Build Agreement and the Architectural Contract that would come into play later. The terms would be set and there would be no way that something could happen in the future that wouldnít have been agreed to and set by this Development Agreement.


The first thing that would happen under this Development Agreement, not only would we go to work designing it, but the Council would have to appoint a Board of Trustees. Once the Board of Trustees was appointed Center Ice and Novi would each lend a line of credit to Community Clubs for $100,000 which would be used to pay for the individual studies that would be necessary to put together the financing and to design the building and get a guaranteed maximum price.


Once that was done, the Ground Lease has been formally agreed to between Community Clubs and the City of Novi, the Preliminary Design Build Agreement and the Management Agreement would be entered into between Center Ice Management and Community Clubs. These are documents that are already in your packets and have been agreed to. Then we would go ahead and update the Feasibility Study, plan and develop it, our architect would draw the plans, our contractor would work with us to put together a guaranteed maximum price. That guaranteed maximum price would come based on site plans that the Council and the City Planning Commission would review and approve and it would all come together here in an authorization from Community Clubs to issue the bonds once we have a guaranteed maximum price and approved site plan.


Once the bonds are issued the Ground Lease would come into play. The ability to use the land to build on would revert to Community Clubs and they would sell the bonds, repay the loans to the City and to Center Ice and then build the facility and operate it. Center Ice Management would have a contract to run it for the first three years; the critical time to get it over the first hump. Actually it would be a five year contract but after three years, at no penalty, the Community Club could waive the last two years and terminate the contract. This is all based on specifications that the Federal Government puts on 501C3 contracts.


As a result, Community Clubs in effect would issue the bonds in their name. It would be issued technically through the Michigan Strategic Funds. They wouldnít bear Noviís name on them and would not be the responsibility of Novi. They would be secured solely by the income from the ice arena.


Five years down the road, I anticipate there will be substantial cash flow out of there. To say that we would be generating $300,000 a year in cash flow would not be unusual. How that money was spent would be for the Board of Trustees to determine. They could spend it for expansions of the program or any way it would benefit the community.


Mayor McLallen said thatís an extremely comprehensive and clear time line and responsibility format.


Councilwoman Mason said once again if there is not enough revenue from the facility who pays?


Mr. Fried said these bonds are not City Revenue bonds they are a separate bond issued by this corporation that is being formed. Iíd like to make one correction. Weíve been involved in preparing these documents. These documents have not been approved by the City Council. We will send to the City Council our comments in regard to these documents, our concerns in regard to these documents, weíll meet with City Council in executive session to go over our opinion regarding these documents so the Council can have an idea of our concerns and we can have an idea of the Councilís concerns in that regard. The flow chart, as outlined here, is exactly as itís contained in those documents.


Councilwoman Mason said so weíre not doing anything right now, itís just a proposal, but we will have an opportunity to meet with you regarding the contracts so that we know whatís happening.


Mr. Fried said I would hope so.


Mayor McLallen said this eveningís meeting is for information to give feedback that they are or are not on the right track and then to lay out what the next steps for the Council are. Are there any questions or comments from the Council for the proposal?

Councilman Toth said my understanding is that this is simply a status report and youíll be back before this Council in 30 to 60 days and at that time we should start the selection on the schedule that you have outlined there.


Mr. Syler said weíve gone as far as we can go. Itís in your hands now, if you need changes, if you need clarifications, weíd be very happy to do it.


Councilman Toth said Mr. Davis, according to your memo dated the 28th of September, right now this is basically a status report.


Mr. Davis said it is a status report for you this evening on what . . .


Councilman Toth said and you will be back before us within 30 to 60 days?


Mr. Davis said as I pointed out in my cover memo that we are also reviewing site location as a primary consideration within this proposal. As Councilís well aware the City of Novi is also working with another developer regarding the feasibility of a baseball stadium. There seems to be some sense of putting those two proposals together if it can be done. So, we know weíre going to need approximately that 30 to 60 day time frame to bring that proposal into a light that we can make a decision on the exact location that makes the most sense from a feasibility stand point regarding the ice arena. What weíd like to get from Council tonight, as in the documentation, anything of concern from Councilís stand point that we can address within that next 30 to 60 days. If itís a question for our City Attorney to respond to, obviously weíd like the Attorney to have ample time to review that, if itís something Administratively or for another department that we can get that information generated and bring back before the Council and then move forward.


Councilman Toth said I have no concern with your proposal or what youíve documented so far. I think you have done an outstanding job. The project looks good and I think your on the right track. My only concern, right now, is the executive session with the City Attorney. We should schedule that with them.


Mr. Fried said I think Mr. Davis and I will get together with the City Manager and propose a time to get together with the Council on that.


Councilman Toth said probably as soon as possible so if anything does arise we can . . .


Mr. Fried said I am sure the City Managerís conscious of what you want.


Councilman Mitzel said I did have a question based on the presentation stating that goal was to have this functioning by next September. In order to meet that time frame when is Council needed?

Mr. Davis said we are looking at a window that we know our planning process requires anywhere from three months to four months to go through preliminary and final site plan review process. So we know we have that. We have approximately, I believe, six to eight months of construction but we would like to see it open in September of 1996. So as you can see with simple arithmetic the window is closing quickly upon getting all the time frame in place for approvals.


Mr. Syler said obviously weíd like to be in the ground as soon as spring breaks and thatís very important. If you notice in Farmington Hills, they started in August last year and they managed to comfortably make opening in September. We are obviously behind that schedule and itís a difficult time schedule. So, we would like it as soon as possible.


Councilman Mitzel said at this time I have no specifics on all the legal language in here and Iíd be interested in seeing if Mr. Fried had. I just echo what Mr. Toth stated that it would be ideal if you could have that review at our regular meeting in two weeks. Iíd hate to see delaying the ice arena on the possibility of this baseball stadium. I know that has been talked around sometimes but that is a huge departure from any Master Plan anywhere within the City. I donít see that moving through to fast. Thatís my concern with linking the ice arena with that site, wherever it may be, at whatever time that discussions going on. So, Iíd encourage we move forward with the ice arena. I believe the document, as was stated, does meet a lot of the objectives that were discussed last year at the Council meeting and it looks like itís going to be a great project. I encourage Mr. Fried to do everything possible so that weíll be able to talk about this in two weeks.


Mr. Fried said Iím sure we can if itís agreeable with the City Manager and Mr. Davis.


Councilman Schmid said I have read this document in some detail and itís pretty well written up and I think itís a fine document. I have no idea about the legalese or even if the contract itself makes a whole lot of sense but the concept is good and I agree with that and will be anxious to get into executive session. Iím primarily, obviously, concerned about the sharing of profits and how all that comes out from your stand point and from the City of Novi stand point. I donít think there is any doubt the City of Novi would love to have a ice arena. This proposal looks excellent but there are a lot of things that we have to talk about. I would like to see the background study of all the people involved here, financial background of the individuals involved thatís going to be proposing this project. I would also like to see the experience of the gentleman standing before us in this particular field as to what his background is and so forth so that we can have some assurances that the matter will be run in a professional manner. Iím sure it would but I think itís important that Council sees this material. I have talked to a lot of people, perhaps more in the last two/three weeks, I think thereís a lot of ice people out there who have indicated an interest. Iíve talked to people in Farmington Hills and I understand that theyíre arena is chuck full. Iím still curious as to why a project such as this cannot go entirely public. If thereís such a demand and such a profit margin in ice time Iím still curious as to why these programs cannot go public. Iím not suggesting it should or it shouldnít Iím just curious about that because all we hear is very positive things and I assume that is accurate. The old story of ice arenas is that they could never turn a profit. In fact there are still some today of much smaller size and much less ice that still canít turn a profit and the City has to supplement the running of the ice arena. This is a double ice and it has a lot of amenities that certainly should take care of that. My final comment, Mr. Davis, is that I note in this material thereís an indication of a lot of other uses that are planned such as banquet halls, large restaurants, 256 seat restaurant. Now, they talk a great deal that they want the ice families together to be there and be able to eat there and so forth and so on. Thatís fine and all these things are good but it doesnít take a 256 seat restaurant to do those kinds of things. Iím not saying thatís bad either but I think we have to emphasize more the intent of this group as to banquet halls and what the intent is there. Thereís a huge amount of money in banquet halls and thatís OK but I think we have to be sure that the City of Novi is tuned into the profits of these things and so forth. Also, we have to be careful when youíre talking about these kinds of amenities that if theyíre supported by the City and supplemented by the City that weíre not stepping on the business mans toes in the community. I want a little more information on the other amenities in addition to the ice that are being proposed here. I think you are starting with an excellent document. Iím with Mr. Mitzel and would like to see this move along rather rapidly. I donít know if we can do it in two weeks but thatís certainly a possibility. Knowing this Council, it might almost take more than one evening to go through a contract such as this as far as the pay backs, rental and the lease and so forth and so on. I commend you for putting together this package and I look forward to working with these gentleman assuming we can answer some of those questions.


Councilwoman Mason said I just wanted to say the same as Mr. Mitzel. I donít want to see this tied into any baseball field or the other situation weíre talking about. Weíve been doing this since 1992 and so I believe the way Mr. Mitzel does we should be moving along rapidly. Letís get this thing in place for 1996 so the 1996 season can be at least partially used here.


Mr. Slyer said he talked to the developers as recently as this afternoon and his plans and our plans are very complimentary. We can frankly move on even tracks. Thereís a lot of things that we need to get done on the design of the facility and financing the structure but itís to the point that when heís ready with his plans if we want to move to that location we can move at really no additional cost. Frankly, we need to spend time in the feasibility study looking at the site thatís proposed on 12 Mile Road comparing it to his site, water, sewer, soil, marketing and things like that. Really we could be working parallel on those two things. Whether he does or doesnít build a baseball stadium doesnít really affect whether or not we would build a ice arena on the site because they would be separate projects. They might in the future be tied together but we do not have to wait for his decision to go ahead on that.


Councilwoman Mason said my question was thatís also a City site isnít it?


Mr. Slyer said no that was a private site.


Councilwoman Mason said OK so itís a private site so if weíre looking at a private site for the baseball does this mean that weíre looking at the hockey rink being placed on a private site?


Mr. Kriewall said yes. It might be turned over to us after a period of time.


Mr. Slyer said the economics donít change very much but he would be willing to sell it to Community Clubs on a basis that would not affect the economics.


Councilwoman Mason said in other words weíre really as close as we are to getting something done Iím hearing now weíre not close to getting something done because if weíre going with a private site and a private developer itís far different than you leasing a piece of land from the City of Novi for 20 years with a non-profit corporation. Is that correct?


Mr. Slyer said itís the same structure but instead of using the Ground Lease and building it on the park site we would buy the site or lease it from the private developer. Everything else would be exactly the same we just wouldnít have the ground lease for the 12 Mile Road site.


Councilwoman Mason said also there would never be an option for this to be turned over to the City of Novi from the non-profit corporation years from now when you use a private developers land.


Mr. Slyer said we could turn it over; thatís not even an issue.


Councilwoman Mason said well it is an issue. At this point, Iím going to say once again we did this since 1992 based on the fact that we were using City land and I have no idea how we come off the track and we end up some place else in life and in time. I absolutely feel we should continue on with the City piece of property, have it leased to this non-profit corporation and letís get the show on the road. We always get something in three months before that goes directly the other way and then when we end up doing it we end up not having anything again for the people. So once again, Madam Mayor, I think we should continue on with the 12 Mile piece, our City piece, do this, let Mr. Fried get involved in this right away and letís bring this to a conclusion here.


Councilman Mitzel said did you need any official direction from Council or consensus that Mr. Fried should proceed if possible in two weeks. Is that clear enough?


Mr. Fried said I want to clarify one thing. Weíve been in on this, its been hours and hours and hours of work. So, we are fully aware of whatís going on and the ramifications of whatís going on. We want to be certain that the Council knows the ramifications. I donít think this proposal to connect this to another enterprise would affect the documents weíve drawn except in a minor manner.


Councilman Mitzel said my statement was more directed so that you could bring us up to date. I wasnít trying to imply that you werenít aware of what was going on. I also think at some point, the Council and probably the Planning Commission need to have some frank discussions about this possibility of a baseball stadium. This hasnít been discussed to often. Like I stated it is a big departure from any Master Plan from anywhere in the City and before it moves along too far itís probably prudent to have some discussions on whether itís even appropriate.


Mayor McLallen said we look forward to seeing you in the very near future and having extended talks with the City Attorney.



2. Proposed Zoning Map Amendment 18.539 - south of Grand River Avenue east of Karim Boulevard from General Business District (B-3) to Office Service District (OS-1) or any other appropriate zoning district.


Mayor McLallen said the proposal has positive recommendations from the Planning and Community Development staff and a positive recommendation from the City Planning Commission.


It was then,


Moved by Councilman Toth

Seconded by Councilman Crawford


That Zoning Map Amendment 18.539 be approved.





Councilman Schmid said I assume we are going to see the proposal.


Mayor McLallen said, if Council would like.


David Donnellon, architect, said he was representing Allie Fayz.


Mayor McLallen asked if there was anything further theyíd like to add?


Mr. Donnellon said no, it was discussed in quite a bit of detail at the Planning Commission. The Planners here and he can speak if he wishes. Itís just a small piece of property trying to make a minor adjustment in the zoning to allow the day care facility to take place on the property behind Pheasant Run.


Mayor McLallen asked Mr. Rogers if he had anything else to add to the discussion?


Mr. Rogers said this is a land use zoning issue. The area in question is the triangle and itís needed to make the project viable, itís property that Mr. Faze owns as part of Pheasant Run which he doesnít need. The day care facility, so called Kiddie Academy, would meet the zoning requirements as a special land use in an OS-1 District were the zoning to go through. They need it for the outdoor play area, they have proper access and it is a special land use in an OS-1 District. So I recommend a rezoning.


Councilman Schmid asked Mr. Rogers to point out Pheasant Run for him.


Mr. Rogers did.


Councilman Schmid said this sets just to the east of the corner parcel then. It would be the next parcel east?


Mr. Rogers said Pheasant Run goes all the way across.


Councilman Schmid said OK.


Yes (6) No (0) Absent (1-Pope) MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY


Councilman Schmid said Iíd like to ask Mr. Rogers a question that I meant to ask before. This is a fourth of an acre, is that right?


Mr. Rogers said yes, 4/10ths of an acre.


Councilman Schmid said I assume that was sufficient size for this facility?


Mr. Rogers said only when itís assembled with the parcel thatís already zoned OS-1.



3. Revised Plat II Autumn Park


Mayor McLallen said Autumn Park is a subdivision in Section 28 east of Beck Road and north of Nine Mile. This is brought back to Council because, I believe in essence the water moratorium, the State requirements for the plat were not met the way the preliminary plat had been presented.


It was then,


Moved by Councilwoman Mason

Seconded by Councilman Mitzel


That Council allow the revision of Plat II, Autumn Park, which would combine Lots 76 and 77 of this referenced subdivision into a single lot and renumbering the subsequent lot numbers which is a requirement because of the water moratorium and to approve the final plat revision.





Councilman Toth said lot 76 sits in the corner of the culdesac. Its got two parks one on each side of it and it does not abut Lot 77. How are we attaching those two?


Councilman Mitzel said this is the revision after they have been combined.


Mayor McLallen asked the representative of Trinity Development to come forward.


Mr. Rick Hirth, Warner, Cantrell & Padmos, said I think the plat you see there, Mr. Toth, has the two lots combined; the one weíre asking to be approved.


Councilman Toth said youíre saying that Lots 77 and 76 are already combined.


Mr. Fried said there is no more 77. Theyíve all been renumbered.


Councilman Toth said my second question is the letter stated that the lots would be combined until water taps would be available and then they would go for a lot split after that.


Mr. Fried said they would have to come back to Council for the lot split.


Councilman Schmid said this is brand new to me. Whatís the deal here I donít understand it.


Mr. Fried said thereís certain provisions within the Plat Act that they have to meet in order to allow for wells and septic systems on lots. I assume former Lots 76 and 77 did not meet those conditions of the Plat Act.


Mr. Hirth said the subdivision is on sanitary sewers, the water mains have been installed and accepted by the City, however, because of the water moratorium taps cannot be issued for lots in the subdivisions. So, until the water moratorium is lifted the builders are providing wells. The lot sizes for septics or wells are separate from the ones that have sanitary sewers and water systems. Thatís why we have asked for the change because they do not meet the criteria for wells. They had to be combined to be made larger.


Councilman Schmid asked does sanitary sewers service this whole sub?

Mr. Hirth said yes, and thereís a water system there too that once the moratorium is lifted theyíll be hooked up.


Councilman Schmid said the other lots meet the criteria but this one didnít, is that it?


Mr. Hirth said thatís correct.


Councilman Schmid said so weíre just combining them until such time as they get water and then youíre going to separate them.


Mr. Hirth said right, if the water moratorium was lifted today, if there wasnít a water moratorium they would meet all the other requirements.


Yes (6) No (0) Absent (1-Pope) MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY



4. Lyon Sand and Gravel Company - Mining/Filling Permit, Sections 18-19


It was then,


Moved by Councilman Toth

Seconded by Councilwoman Mason


To approve the extension of the Mining Permit until April 30, 1996.


Yes (6) No (0) Absent (1-Pope) MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY



4a. Budget Amendment


Mayor McLallen said this was put on the table this evening at the request of the Police Chief. It is a request for a Budget Amendment in the amount of $4,000 to purchase approximately 20 items, face shields and gas masks for the police force.



NOW, THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED that the following 1995-96 budget amendment is authorized.






Police-Supplies 4,000

Contingencies (new balance $255,833) (4,000)


It was then,


Moved by Councilman Crawford

Seconded by Councilman Schmid


That Budget Amendment No. 96-6 be approved.





Councilman Toth said I thought this was standard equipment that we would have on the police department. Why wouldnít we have this and what else are we missing.


Mr. Kriewall said to his knowledge that was all that weíre missing.


Councilman Toth said this is buying enough for one shift?


Mr. Kriewall said this would probably be one for everybody.


Councilwoman Mason said in the world?


Mr. Kriewall said no, our own people.


Councilman Toth asked if Mr. Kriewall could have the Chief provide us with a short memo identifying that he does have everything that he needs. I donít want to do this piece meal. I would just a soon make sure he has the equipment on hand before an incident comes up rather than doing it after the fact. I donít want a patrol officer hurt because he doesnít have the right equipment.


Councilwoman Mason said I want to know how many pieces theyíre purchasing of each item so we know that everybody is covered.


Mr. Kriewall said this is his request and thatís what he said he needed to do the job.


Councilwoman Mason said we just want to know how many pieces he wants. We just want to make sure everybody has one.


Mr. Kriewall said he might still be in the back.


Mr. Fried said he suggested that this was an emergency item.


Mayor McLallen said this was in response to a situation over the weekend that he felt our department was not equipped for.

Yes (6) No (0) Absent (1-Pope) MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY


Mayor McLallen asked that the City Administration follow up and bring Council a detailed list of what was purchased.





Chief Shaeffer said we are learning fast, needless to say, in the department but right now we are planning to buy 20 shields, 20 gas masks, several more 36 inch batons and some things we are actually buying out of our budget some CS Gas and large pepper gas dispensers.


Andrew Mutch, 24541 Hampton Ct., said I just wanted to go back to #3, Autumn Park combining of the lots. I believe that subdivision was developed under the adjusted lot size ordinance. I was wondering when they come back for a lot split they will find that their combined lot is now to small to meet the ordinance. Do they get to go back to their old lot sizes or are they going to have to come back on an R-1? You might have created a problem for the petitioner in the future.


Mr. Fried said that problem will be addressed when he comes back with the question.


Councilwoman Mason said my comment was just I donít think it will ever come back. They will have a well on that, they will have a sewer on that and they will sell for twice as much because itís twice as big and they will never come back to split it.







5. Approval of the Six-Year Program and Authorizing Resolution


Tony Nowicki, Department of Public Service Director, said before you tonight is the revised

Six Year Road Program with a revision date of September 26, 1995. This is basically a continuation of the Road Program that has been in existence here for the City of Novi for quite a few years. The program is used to plan and schedule road repair and maintenance operations plus our investments in the infrastructure are maintained. The program is flexible enough to allow us to make modifications should an unforeseen event occur or something happened to our road system where emergency repairs are needed. Yet, it is rigid enough to insure that we have a good planning program and that the needs of the roadways, the maintenance of them, are maintained. This yearís programs, specifically 95-96, has a number of highlights. I can go over those specific road projects if youíre interested. Primarily we are looking at the construction on the maintenance end of Howellís Walled Lake Subdivision, some miscellaneous spot repair work to Beck Road, construction of concrete pavement reconstruction for Meadowbrook Glens and Lexington Green Subdivision. Plus a number of projects that we have listed that would be funded through the six year road program and that would be maintenance facility of the DPW, the Aladdin property, Seeley Road signal, hopefully if we can get participation through the Road Commission for Oakland County, the Beck Road/12 Mile/I-96 intersection, Traffic Improvement Association for Oakland County a $8,000 dues for that, thoroughfare plan, Grand River Corridor Design Study, of course the lobbyist that we changed and modified that back to, I believe, $18,000 instead of $54,000 last time, MDOT Wetland Mitigation contribution and the contribution for the Grand River Avenue bridge. The bridge is new this year and weíve been discussing this issue with the Road Commission for quite a few years. Weíre now to the point where we feel that itís time to participate in that particular structure. We have a Crescent Road extension coming in at Grand River and the coordination of these two projects is very critical. The coordinated construction would provide for elimination of any type of duplication of efforts. We wouldnít have to build things and then turn around six months later and rip them up. We feel itís in the best interest of the community to go ahead and participate with the Oakland County Road Commission for the Grand River Avenue bridge.


Councilman Toth said this six year road program is paid for by the road millage that was approved by the residents and Act 51 money?


Mr. Nowicki said thatís correct.


Councilman Toth said those are your two sources of funding for this?


Mr. Nowicki said thatís correct.


Councilman Toth said why are we paying for a lobbyist out of funds that were approved for a road program? Why did you include that in the 95-96 fiscal year to pay $18,000 for a lobbyist?


Mr. Nowicki said through the budget process and those deliberations we were basically advised that the money is used for roadway type lobbying and those type of efforts and that it could be utilized in that undertaking.


Councilman Toth said you also have $18,000 in for 96-97 which we have not approved any budget for that year and weíve got another $18,000 for lobbyist. In addition, the MDOT Wetland Mitigation, I have before me Thursdays Detroit Free Press and it shows that the canceled projects that they have. One of their canceled projects is the wetlands mitigation called the GEMCO Ash Site and thatís been canceled for $2,300,000. So technically the $55,000 that you have in there will not be used.


Mr. Nowicki said we have not been able to confirm that it has in fact been canceled or itís being delayed. Any of these expenditures, before theyíre expended, they have to come back before this Council and this Council finally votes on them when anything happens before we spend any money.


Councilman Toth said I am ready to approve the rest of this but I will not approve the lobbyist being buried in this particular project because when I supported the millage for the road program we never discussed the idea of supporting a lobbyist. I feel that should be part of the general administration budget that was approved by this Council, for a short period of time, and Iím not in favor of approving anything for 96-97. The Council will consider that when we look at the budget for that year. This automatically fills it in for the six year road program. Iím also concerned that if the wetland mitigation money, the $55,400, I believe we need an answer from MDOT right now what theyíre doing. Theyíre talking about Beck Road, theyíre talking about the M-2 1/2 project that theyíve stopped work on, theyíve talked about I-275 theyíre not going to do anything on that. So, thereís a whole series of projects that theyíre literally washing their hands of. My concern is if theyíre not going to put any of that funding in place thereís no reason for us to build it into our budget.


Mr. Nowicki said thatís correct. If we donít spend it then it would roll over to the next year. Right now, I believe, we do have a signed contract with them obligating that type of money. Again, Iíve not been able to confirm this with the people Iíve talked to and weíll just have to keep going on up the ladder to see exactly what the status of those projects are.


It was then,


Moved by Councilman Mitzel

Seconded by Councilman Toth


That the Six Year Road Program be approved as presented.


It was then,


Moved by Councilman Mitzel

Seconded by Councilman Crawford


To amend the main motion by striking the $18,000 for the lobbyist in the 96-97

fiscal year and having the Administration correct the fund balances as appropriate for the remaining years.





Councilwoman Mason said the Aladdin property, the $44,000, is to clean up, is that it?


Mr. Nowicki said no that is one of the last installments towards our land contract on that property.


Councilwoman Mason said then Crescent Blvd., just refresh me, what area?


Mr. Nowicki said we have one Crescent Blvd. Project that ties in right near the bridge on Grand River Avenue and runs north. There might even be two Crescent Blvd. projects, Iím not sure.


Councilwoman Mason said do you have one in 1995-96 which is the $15,000, so that would be the north west.


Mr. Nowicki said thatís correct. Thatís for design engineering.


Councilwoman Mason said and then you have one in 97 which is $369,000.


Mr. Nowicki said that is for right of way and construction, same project.


Councilwoman Mason said thatís north west.


Mr. Nowicki said thatís correct.


Councilman Schmid said I think Mr. Toth has a legitimate concern. Maybe Mr. Kriewall can explain. I assume heís the one who put it in that budget.


Mr. Kriewall said I think Council wanted to revisit the lobbyist proposal periodically and we are in accordance with that and if I understand they are planning on leaving it in for 95-96 and taking it out in 96-97. I think we can live with that and revisit this situation a year from now. I do believe this is the proper place to fund the lobbyist because most of the efforts of the lobbyist to date have been for road improvements in the City of Novi. Quite frankly, I think weíre on the verge of hopefully getting some results in the next few months. Thereís some legislation being drafted right now that would benefit the City of Novi in terms of some potential appropriations. I strongly believe that we need to continue our activities along these lines. We have generated a lot of visibility and both Oakland County, our county legislative delegation and I think we are making some strides. Now, this takes some time but I believe it will pay some dividends in the long run. This is a very minor investment and I would also point out that the private sector is paying half of the cost of lobbyist for this first year. We believe we will be able to spread the cost of that lobbyist in future years out to two or three other local businesses. I think itís an investment in this community that we need to continue to make and on the horizon, quite frankly, with what is being done with the proposed increase in gas taxes, zero, we may need all the help we can get in terms of lobbying for our position in this community for road improvements. So it is more important now than ever that we be dialed in and be represented in Lansing.

Councilman Schmid said Iím going to vote for the motion because I think this should be looked at. I think Mr. Kriewall explained the purpose for it being in a road program and that may be legitimate but I think itís something that should be looked at to see if it should be spread to other areas next year.


Councilman Toth said itís surprising Mr. Kriewall, that since weíve got the lobbyist weíve lost five road programs if itís right. Now, before we had the lobbyist we werenít losing that many all in one fell swoop.


Mr. Kriewall said the State and the Governor have taken care of that. Itís a State wide problem.


Councilman Toth said but this lobbyist is based in Lansing and we didnít have any advance warning of this happening at all.


Mayor McLallen asked if there was any further comment on the motion to remove the funding for the lobbyist in the 96-97 budget?


Councilman Schmid said no, for the road budget.


Mayor McLallen said from the presented road program.





Yes (5) No (1-Crawford) Absent (1-Pope) MOTION CARRIED





Yes (6) No (0) Absent (1-Pope) MOTION CARRIED



6. Claims and Accounts - Warrant No. 448


It was then,


Moved by Councilman Crawford

Seconded by Councilman Schmid


That Claims and Accounts Warrant No. 448 be approved.


Yes (5) No (1-Toth) Absent (1-Pope) MOTION CARRIED



7. Schedule an Executive Session to immediately follow Regular Meeting -

Property Acquisition and litigation


It was then,


Moved by Councilman Crawford

Seconded by Councilman Mason


That an Executive Session be scheduled immediately following the Regular

Meeting to discuss property acquisition and litigation.


Yes (6) No (0) Absent (1-Pope) MOTION CARRIED



8. Indemnification Agreement - South Hill Construction


Mr. Kriewall said this particular item was added to the agenda because of our concern with moving the Main Street Project along. We have bid the construction of Main Street, we have identified the low bidder, City Council has awarded the bid to South Hill Construction for the completion of the Main Street Project. The agreements have been signed by the contractor and the Mayor and weíre ready to go. The only thing the contractor, and we had a meeting with them last Friday and our City Attorney was represented, it was pointed out by the contractor in that meeting that he was not made aware of the contaminates in the soil and the Aladdin building which heís being required to move and spread throughout the site. So, he was represented by his attorney and he said he would like indemnification, being a narrow indemnification as to his liability in terms of moving that dirt not knowing that it was contaminated when he bid the project. We had a discussion with our City Attorney and it was my recommendation that provided that the indemnification was narrowly drawn that we would support that because we donít think he should be held liable for moving the contaminated dirt. The DNR has allowed us to; these are non-volatile heavy medals that will be excavated from the Aladdin property and deposited under the roadway right of way and paved over. This is an acceptable method of handling contaminated soils. I guess thereís case law throughout the country in terms of some potential liabilities to anyone who would transport that soil and deposit it even though itís under our control, jurisdiction and inspection through engineering. So their attorney has communicated through our City Attorney to draft a narrow limited indemnification outline that weíre going to present this evening. Weíre recommending it because we think itís acceptable and we are anxious to get the project going. They would like to line the bulldozers up this week and start moving dirt and we just need to resolve this one item.


Mr. Fried said we have reviewed this matter and the contract that was entered into there was no disclosure made to South Hill construction that there was contamination of the soil. The contractor has a right to proceed on that contract and he canít hold us liable. In any regard, if there is contaminated soil there and heís held responsible for it because that information was not disclosed to the contractor at the time he bid on the contract and his bid was accepted. Based upon the information given to us by Mr. Farnum, JCK Environmentalist, there is little if any possibility of any liability on the part of the City or the contractor in using this soil for road purposes under the new environmental act. So, therefore, we recommend this very limited indemnity clause be added to the contract. The contractor has a right to be indemnitified for this particular soil because he was not notified at the time he bid on the contract.


Councilwoman Mason said my question is, since we knew there was contamination, when we put these bids out did any of the contractors who bid know there was contamination there?


Mr. Nowicki said I really could not answer that.


Mr. Fried said let me try to respond to that because that was our concern. If they were notified of the contamination at the time they bid on the contract then they would not be entitled to an indemnity. Does that answer your question?


Councilwoman Mason said I guess so. Iím just amazed that we didnít do that.


Mr. Fried said I was amazed too.


Councilwoman Mason said second is, this having to spread the dirt now takes a little more time than if there was no contaminated soil. Are we looking at an increase in the cost that South Hill will now have to charge on this project.


Mr. Kapelczak said there was no extra charge for moving the materials.


It was then,


Moved by Councilman Toth

Seconded by Councilman Schmid


That the Indemnification Agreement be approved in accordance with the

recommendation of the City Attorney.





Councilman Mitzel said I have a concern about what was stated tonight about the contractor wasnít clearly specified in the bids. Iím wondering what in our bid process went wrong that that was allowed to happen and how we can prevent that in the future. I donít know who prepared the bid package, not the who but how is more important.


Mr. Kapelczak said we prepared the bid package for it and the cubic yards of material were put in there at the time that the bids were put out or the packages were put out to take prices. We still did not receive a permit from the DNR that we could put that soil underneath the road so therefore, we couldnít put it in our bid package. We still didnít have a permit for it. If in fact, we didnít receive, although we were sure we would get the permit but we didnít have it yet in hand, we would of then had to have a separate contract to move that material out if the DNR did not allow us to put it underneath the road. So we have taken the bids then the permit came from the DNR so now this contractor can handle it. The only thing he wants now is the indemnification clause. Otherwise, if the DNR said remove it to a different site we would have had a different contractor and it would have been a different bid package for contractors who only are allowed to move contaminated material.


Councilman Mitzel said it would have been simpler to just wait for the permit.


Mr. Kapelczak said I think that everybody was in a process to try to get this road under construction this year and we didnít know the timing of the DNR permit.


Mr. Fried said we are working under a new statute. The statute was only adopted this last year and there are many, many problems that have to be worked out. The DNR is supposed to have regulations on it. They havenít adopted regulations and it just fell through the cracks and it shouldnít have.


Councilman Mitzel said I have supported this project and I understand the desire to get it constructed as quickly as possible but it concerns me that Iím being asked to approve something that thereís no document background presentation on the table or in our packet. I fully respect our Attorney and believe he will do a good job but I believe that we should have the background material on our table in writing. Another concern is that I wish we could move other City projects with as much speed as weíre moving this Main Street project. There are many other projects that seem to take a lot longer to complete than this one and it would be nice if we could move all of them that fast. I wonít support this tonight because I feel like we should have had something in our packet or at least presented at the table in writing. I am glad that process changes will be looked at in the future.


Mr. Fried asked that Council direct JCK to send the City a letter setting forth what they told us at the meeting that we held on Friday so that it will be made part of the record so Council will know itís part of the record.


Mayor McLallen said City Administration would you please be sure that is brought forward.


Councilwoman Mason said I will not support it either and I feel the same way. This is something that we should have had something here to know about and I donít know what we are indemnifying against and we also knew the problem before this ever started. Weíre pushing this along, what if, the DNR told us that we had to take, now we already had the bid and South Hill got it, now the DNR comes in and says you must remove all that contaminated soil from that site. What would we have done? Now what happens?


Mr. Fried said in the hypothetical instance we would have to pay extra for the removal of that soil.


Councilwoman Mason said I guess my point is then youíve already bid a project, gone low bidder, have to turn around, have soil removed which no longer makes it the low bidder because itís also part of the contract.


Mr. Fried said no the soil is not being removed.


Councilwoman Mason said my point is, Mr. Fried, we rush this along, we didnít know if the soil had to be removed, we did a bid, got a low bidder and if the DNR wouldnít have let us spread that this soil wouldíve had to have been taken off and taken someplace which would increase the cost of that job which means the low bidder was not the low bidder.


Mr. Fried said thatís exactly the point Mr. Mitzel made. He said this one fell through the cracks and he doesnít want to see it fall through again. I agree with him it shouldnít happen again.

Mr. Fried said I think we all agree on that.


Councilwoman Mason said well Mr. Mitzel and I agree.


Yes (4) No (2-Mason, Mitzel) Absent (1-Pope) MOTION CARRIED



9. 1996 Meeting Schedule


Councilwoman Mason said I had two questions on the meeting schedule. First, I understand that Cindy Stewart is now under contract. Is that correct? I asked our City Clerk where we got the schedule and she said Cindy Stewart is under contract, is that correct?


Mr. Kriewall said she is not under contract. She came in for a few hours to do some work thatís running way behind on her calendar and we engaged her.


Councilwoman Mason said you engaged her? I mean like on what basis?


Mr. Kriewall said an hourly basis.


Councilwoman Mason said on what basis? I mean like hourly or is she going to get so much for finishing the calendar or how will we do that?


Mr. Kriewall said she doesnít know how much longer itís going to take. She thought maybe she needed to spend 8 to 10 hours on it.


Councilwoman Mason said are we paying her hourly then? I guess thatís my question because I didnít know that we were contracting Cindy for anything.


Mr. Kriewall said hourly.


Councilwoman Mason said youíre talking about hourly. Also, I feel that we have an election November 7th; I think that this schedule even if it might be the right schedule should wait until after the election in case you have different people sitting up here. I really donít think the people here should be making decisions for the people then.


It was then,


Moved by Councilwoman Mason

Seconded by Councilman Toth


Postpone the setting of the 1996 Council schedule until the first meeting of November after the election.





Councilman Crawford said can we talk about the schedule or the postponement of the schedule. I guess theyíre inter-related.


Mayor McLallen said at the moment the motion is to postpone.


Councilman Crawford said Iíll address my comments to the reason itís postponed. I donít think thatís, in my opinion, necessary. For the most part this schedule is the first and third Mondays which weíve traditionally done since forever. Except, when we need to make exceptions to it which would be understood no matter when or what schedule we adopted. Thereís a couple of corrections on this schedule. Thatís my comment. I think we can go ahead and approve a schedule knowing that itís going to be flexible anyway whether we did it now or did it later but we have always done first and third Mondays. So I think itís appropriate to adopt this right now and not have to wait.


Councilman Toth said I am in favor of postponing it to the second meeting in November. This would allow any new Council Members to have a chance to look at the schedule and see whether or not it meets with their requirements. The fact is we donít have just a first and third there is an awful lot of adjustments made in here that may impact someone. Second of all, this would go into the calendar. I think thatís the intent to have this actually printed in the calendar and have some 20,000 copies or more floating around the City. So I think waiting another month or so, six weeks, is appropriate so the Council does make a firm decision and agrees on this and we can stay with the dates as close as possible. I do have a problem with the letter I see here because thereís a sentence that says "I have been hired as a consultant for Novi." Itís a flat statement, itís the third sentence in the letter and I for one am sorry that we had not been informed of this. The idea that a former employee was retained and I donít know how it was done and I think the details should have been presented at least as a courtesy to the Council. Not done secretively so that we know nothing about this. That quite frankly bothers me because some people seem to know about it and some donít and it seems that mostly the people who donít know anything about it are on the Council.


Councilman Mitzel asked at what date does the schedule have to be set to get into the Cityís calendar.


Mr. Kriewall said we always add the new Council Members right after the election so we have time to wait.


Councilman Mitzel said if we were to act on it on November 20th . . .


Mr. Kriewall said right. I would like to respond to Mr. Toth that . . .


Mayor McLallen said at the moment this Council is only addressing the issue of postponing the schedule.


Councilman Schmid said we seem to make big issues out of little things. Was this schedule adopted for the first and third, generally speaking, Monday?


Mr. Kriewall said generally but we work around many things. We work around Michigan Municipal League, conferences, Michigan Week Mayorís Exchange, budget meetings in May. Thereís a considerable amount of thought that goes into this and I think weíve probably just gone ahead and set these in prior years. Thereís some rational involved in setting these dates, spacing and what have you. We recommend Council adopt it.


Councilman Schmid said I thought that was the case. I can never recall arguing about dates of the first and third Monday in the history that Iíve been around. Iím going to support the motion.


Councilman Mitzel said I donít know if you want to get into the schedule or not.


Mayor McLallen said at the moment if it pertains to the motion to postpone.


Councilman Mitzel said I can share the information about the first and third Mondays later then.


Councilwoman Mason said there are four specific times that are changed from the first and third which Rob figured out.


Mayor McLallen said at this point weíre just talking about whether to adopt it now . .


Councilwoman Mason said we can discuss, are we talking about this schedule, we can discuss . . .


Mayor McLallen said no, we are not talking about the schedule we are talking about postponing it or adopting it. Your motion was to postpone the entire discussion until after the new Council was seated.


Councilwoman Mason said no, my motion was to postpone the setting of these dates until after the new legislative body was seated; not to postpone discussion of it. To postpone the schedule, to vote on this, making the schedule, after new people were seated. Not to postpone discussion. I never said that.


Mayor McLallen asked, have you comments on the motion, Member Mason.


Councilwoman Mason said certainly do, certainly do. Thereís four times it doesnít fall in. I want to know the dates, when we come back in the second meeting in November, why these changes were made. I want to make sure itís not like a U of M, Michigan State basketball game or somebodyís vacation because thatís what happens. So, thatís what Iím asking Administration. I want to know exactly why these are being changed from first and third.


Councilman Crawford said just to briefly reiterate. Typically we have scheduled the first and third Monday so everyone has a general ideal of when Council will meet. Throughout the year we make exceptions to those dates with just exactly what Mr. Kriewall said; sometimes thereís conferences, sometimes thereís a holiday that was unforseen. If Iím not correct in the City Calendar, either there or on Cable, thereís also a little footnote that says "please check with the City Clerk for the exact time and date of the meeting" which indicates that these are flexible and may change. I think itís important to set as regular meeting as possible and thatís all this is asking tonight is to set it for the first and third Monday knowing full well that some of those will be changed. So, as Mr. Schmid said we are making a rather big issue out of nothing here. Itís rather simple to do this and get on with business and amend throughout the year as necessary.


Councilwoman Mason said if this was 100% Iíll point out to Mr. Crawford it would be fine. There are four exceptions out of 12 months. Thatís it.

Yes (4) No (2-Crawford, Schmid) Absent (1-Pope) MOTION CARRIED


Councilman Toth said just as a comment for the City Manager what would really be helpful would be a one year working calendar for the Council with tentative dates in there for budget meetings, joint meetings with the Planning Commission. Perhaps, have Parks and Recreation identify if that could be worked out and submitted to Council and we could have an idea of when we could put these joint meetings together and when the budget meetings are and so forth. Thatís something that perhaps we should discuss before the beginning of next year. That would give you some idea of where the Council feels comfortable dealing with those matters.








Councilman Toth said tomorrow night the Computer Advisory Committee is starting a series of demonstrations. The first demonstration will be held in the Police Department conference room on the second floor. The reason is we tried to hold it in one of the activity rooms and theyíre all booked up solid. I want to talk a little bit about the series. These will be public safety software demonstrations. These will be the various vendors that supply the type of software thatís needed by the Fire Department and the Police Department and they will be bringing in their equipment and their software and demonstrating it in front of the Police Department, the Computer Committee and in front of anybody else in the City that would like to attend. Weíve extended invitations to each department and to City Council to come up, take a look at it and it will be from 5 to 7 oíclock tomorrow, Tuesday. It will be every Tuesday with a different vendor until we complete our evaluation process. There are approximately 7 to 12 vendors that are under consideration at this time. We will be evaluating all their packages so if you get a chance, stop in and take a look at it because we donít want you to be surprised when we come before the Council with our request. We will be looking for basically a software that will meet department needs, especially police and fire. Weíre looking for an expandable system that will meet future needs and will be compatible with other departments and the equipment that we have installed.





Councilman Mitzel said last Wednesday the Storm Water Committee met for a couple of hours. We met with representatives from the DNR and the Rouge Program Office and opened up a dialogue concerning the future of the storm water plan in Novi and their concerns and our concerns. I think it was quite productive and we hope to continue to build on that dialogue that was opened up. We should have a brief summary in compliance with the Council directive for summary in the next packet.






Councilman Toth said I received a copy of a letter from Councilwoman Mason and Jim Wahl. Attached to it is a memorandum from Greg Capote, Staff Planner, dated September 13th and also a letter from the City Attorney. I have some concerns because of the fact the this implies that there was some action taking place over the past six weeks. The letter from the City Attorney is dated the 8th of September and says that Mr. Wahl supplied a copy of City Council minutes in a reduced format to the City Attorney and that some legal decision was made on the validity of doing this in reduced format and some other actions that were taken. In addition to that Mr. Capoteís memorandum of September 13th states that "and thus far this new format has been well received by Council" which is entirely new that I havenít even seen it, OK. Second, it states that the 35 page sample required two weeks to complete. Are we doing this on an old mechanical typewriter or something, 35 pages in two weeks. Somebody needs some typing lessons. That kind of bothers me plus the fact is there are some decisions about making audio tapes available to the public and some concerns about not having adequate minutes for the Planning Commission. Some of these are rather deep and serious policy decisions that were being acted upon by this so called Advisory or Administration Liaison Committee. I realize that the hour is late and we donít have the time here but I think this Council should get a complete staff report on what has been taking place and it should be provided to us by the next Council meeting. I, for one, am concerned that thereís a committee formed to take a look at some of these areas and. again, theyíre tampering with things that have some legal ramifications for the City as a whole. Also, it concerns me as a Council Member that we donít have adequate protection in the form of minutes and tampering with some of the audio tapes and some of the other materials. So I do have a deep concern and I feel this Council deserves a full staff report by the next Council meeting.


Mayor McLallen said the Administrative Liaison Committee in question is a committee of the Planning Commission. I donít know who the present members are but it is a sub-committee of the Planning Commission.


Councilman Toth said they have no right to go in on Council minutes without Councilís authorization.


Mayor McLallen said I think it refers to their minutes.


Mr. Fried said the Planning Commission requested from our office back in April information on what is required within their minutes. We then wrote them a letter telling them what the statutes require in their minutes. I think thatís what is being referred to and we will give the Council a copy of the letter that we sent to the Planning Commission on April the 4th setting forth what we think the statutory requirements are in regards to minutes. Thatís all that refers to. It was a legitimate question put by the Planning Commission to our office and we responded to it.


Councilman Mitzel said the Planning Commission has the prerogative to determine the format of its own minutes.


Mr. Fried said thatís correct.


Councilman Mitzel said and the Council has the right to determine the format of our minutes.


Mr. Fried said thatís correct and our letter was addressed to only the legal requirements in all minutes.


Councilman Toth said just briefly, because I have the letter in front of me, and I donít want to take this out of context. It states "nevertheless, we express a concern that Planning Commission minutes be more than mere summary minutes" and thatís a legal statement thatís made by your office stating you do have a concern and now we canít allow the Planning Commission to come in with abbreviated minutes that may not legally fit whatís required to describe a particular project. Second of all, your statement is "you have provided us with a copy of City Council minutes in reduced format." This Council did not authorize anyone to reduce the format of Council minutes. It leaves me to believe there is some concern and your letter has a tone that suggests thereís some concern over what direction weíre going.


Mr. Fried said we have concerns over whatís included in the minutes and Council has concerns over whatís included in the minutes and that will be resolved. I think properly, the Administration and the City Clerk will supply what the City Clerk and the Administration believes should be in the minutes and Councilís going to add or subtract from that or do whatever the Council desires.


Councilman Toth said but the paper trail is suggesting that this has been going on for quite some time that the Councilís not been aware of.


Mr. Fried said itís only gone on because the Planning Commission addressed a question to us in April and we responded to that question. The Clerk did some work on it on her own and she appreciates the comments that come out of Council in regard to those abbreviated minutes. We are working on trying to resolve what, Administratively, would be required in the minutes and then the Council can take it from there.


Councilman Mitzel said the September 11th and September 25th meetings did approve the new format of minutes for our own Council minutes. Both meetings in September we had that in our Consent Agenda and we approved them.


Councilwoman Mason said that is exactly why I donít think they should be put on an Consent Agenda because a lot of things get slid through this Council on the Consent Agenda that should never be there. I want to read part of Mr. Capoteís letter that really troubled me where he said "it would give the opportunity to utilize our human resources to a higher degree of efficiency." I think weíre going to computers now thatís one of the purposes. I also want to know who the Administrative Liaison Committee meeting was. The entire thing that disturbed me was the fact that no one gave them permission to do this and as much as I like our new City Clerk no one gave her permission and I said this last week, or the Mayor. The second thing is you had a citizen who did appear in front of that Planning Commission that in normal minutes she had everything she needed from what she said and what they said and the condensed minutes they took three pages and put it into one or two paragraphs. Thatís not OK. Iím wondering what happens if we end up in some legal situation and some people on this Board or some people on the Planning Commission will be involved in litigation and youíve condensed it where you donít know whoís doing what. I think everybody should be responsible and I think anyone that picks those minutes up at City Hall, the citizens, should know exactly how everyone on this Council behaves, and the ZBA and the Planning Commission. In my opinion, thatís one of the reasons itís being done is to take blame from people who do not do their jobs properly in the legislation of this government.


Councilman Schmid said I do think there was a communication glitch in how these minutes got changed. In other words, right or wrong, certainly this Council should have been advised that the Clerk had decided to change the content of the minutes the way they were written. That wasnít done and it should have been done. I assume the minutes now are being transcribed just like they were six months ago or four months ago because even though we may have adopted the minutes off the Consent Agenda I think they should be as they were until Mr. Fried comes back with a report at least to determine how much has to be in there. Having read minutes for many years it is, many times, important to have some detail as to what did take place from a lawsuit stand point and from many other factors that go on. Iím going to assume that the minutes are being transcribed as they were four months ago or whatever time they didnít get changed before the new City Clerk, and Iím not blaming her. So then we can make a decision down the road. Is that fair?


Mayor McLallen said I think that would settle this issue and not protract it. At this point, the direction of this Council is to hear from the Attorney as to what is essentially needed in the minutes and from that point the City will establish a policy on minutes.


Mr. Fried said until that time the old format will be instituted.





Mr. Kriewall said in response to Mr. Dunnabeckís appeal to City Council this evening, I believe there is some case law in terms of de-watering and what that effect might be on drying up wells of neighboring properties, etc. So, our City Attorney will probably have to respond to that. I think we had that situation in town maybe 10, 15 years ago and there should be some history of that.

Councilman Mitzel said I have one item Iíd like the City Manager to follow up on. That is the new section of sidewalk on the north side of Ten Mile between Weathervane Village and First of America. It seems that drainage wasnít accounted for and a section of itís been washed out since mid August and Iím curious when that will be repaired.


Councilman Toth said the M-5 project was never on my hit list or my hit parade. The M-2 1/2 project is rapidly going down the tubes very quickly with all the cancellations from MDOT. Of course, I could say I told you so back when the project started but rather I consider that some promises were made by MDOT and some promises were made by a couple of Governors and thereís some Senators and some State Reps that got in on the action and had their pictures taken when the ribbons were cut and so forth. I firmly believe that this Council and especially the City Administration should send some strong messages and letters to our loonies in Lansing and identify the fact that this project was promised completion. We are now faced with a big chunk of concrete sitting on 12 Mile, traffic situations that will perhaps become unbearable this Christmas Season and no continuation north. To our friends who live on Haggerty Road nothingís happening for them. They still have the old two lane Haggerty Road and theyíre faced with all this increased traffic coming in on 12 Mile off the M-2 1/2 ramps that are completed. I think there should be some strong positive action taking place on a steady basis so within the next six weeks we should make their ears ring about this whole project.


Mr. Kriewall said weíve already started.





Councilman Toth said at the last meeting Mr. Watson was filling in for Mr. Fried and he promised to have a complete report within 30 days on the Eclipse Report.


Mr. Fried said he is in the process of working on that.


Councilman Schmid said Mr. Watson did a very nice job filling in for David.


Councilwoman Mason said I just wanted to encourage everybody to read the 10 Mile Road Improvement projects mission by a citizen, Warren Jocz. I have gone through it and will go through it again. It was very precise and complete and Iím sure if there is a copy at City Hall that if a citizen wanted to come and read it Iím sure they could borrow it or read it here. It was just exceptional for a private citizen to take that much time and that much money to complete a study the way this young man did.





1. Memorandum from Councilman Mitzel to D. Fried or D. Watson, Re: City Council Minutes

2. Letter from Warren Jocz to Novi City Council, Re: Ten Mile road Improvement Project -

Submission of an Engineering and Environmental Assessment report





Mayor McLallen said at this point, 10:30 p.m., we will adjourn this meeting and go into executive session.









Mayor City Clerk



Date approved: